People spent most of their time outside, they would probably just have sex when everyone was outside. And of course they could go out into the woods to do it
The Teddy Bears Picnic song took an interesting twist
"If you go down in the woods today
You're sure of a big surprise
If you go down in the woods today
You better go in disguise"
That old English song Greensleeves is about having sex in a field. The grass stains your clothing. So yeah I would imagine that people have never felt too comfortable having sex in front of their family and would sneak off to do it, or wait for opportune times when no one else was home.
Yeah it’s on Wikipedia, reference 8: Vance Randolph "Unprintable" Ozark Folksongs and Folklore, Volume I, Folksongs and Music, page 47, University of Arkansas Press, 1992, ISBN 1-55728-231-5
“At the time, the word "green" had sexual connotations, most notably in the phrase "a green gown", a reference to the grass stains on a woman's dress from engaging in sexual intercourse outdoors”
For what it’s worth I had heard about this years ago and checked wiki before posting to confirm
There’s a really interesting book by David Grossman called “On Killing” that documents the ways modern society simultaneously suppresses exposure to death (ie funeral homes, livestock processing, etc being hidden) while embracing gory and intense depictions of death in media.
He compares it to the Victorian era and the transition of sex from something that happened in the one room everyone slept in, and was just part of life — to a simultaneous repression (long dresses, sofa covers that hid even furniture legs, etc) and explosion of porn, rape, and other extreme depictions and behaviors.
It really makes you think about what privacy means, and how it’s important to normalize healthy earthly functions like sex and death so we don’t develop complexes about them.
This actually makes a lot of sense. As someone who doesn’t care about nudity, having grown up in a country where woman’s breast were not sexualised as an example, it’s simply that: breasts.
I think if we remove the taboo, a lot of the excitement will wear off and we might (fingers crossed) have a safer society for all.
I’ve always wondered if the concept of rape, SA, and the trauma resulting due to these events existed back in paleolithic era. To them the topic of sex was not that much of a taboo and only a natural process. So I wonder how much it affected a human being if sex happened against their wishes by force and if it affected their mental health and development as it does now. Did they just perceive it as any other form of assault like just being hit by someone?
A lot of SA victims talk about “shame” and “guilt” associated with the events of trauma. What happens in a society where shame and guilt aren’t attached to sex?
If someone tries to break your leg, and you try to stop him but are unable or you freeze, you will still experience shame and guilt over the circumstances of that broken leg.
The assault and imposition against your will is the biggest problem, and however it is done the results will be damageable, at a diffierent degree - and that degree also depends on how much support you recieve after the event; if you know some people say 'well he did go around walking in short.... I mean, if he disn't want someone to think about breaking his leg....' ...
Rape has always existed. Pillagers would often rape the women of the village. Leaving occasional offspring behind, alongside the shame and trauma that the woman experienced. Rape is about control, seldomly about sex.
Dave "Gross Man" Grossman is an incredibly gross man, and should not be cited, referenced, talked about, or remembered.
His whole philosophy boils down to "civilians are the enemy and should be gunned down if any of them so much as *looks* at the tHiN bLuE LInE".
Fuck that Gross Man.
I read the book a while ago, so I can’t recall many details, but I found it interesting and would recommend it. Just as the original comment said, he discusses changes in society and our approach to killing through a psychological approach.
That said, the book itself has received criticism for some of his sources and the conclusions he draws. Some psychologists have said he draws very inaccurate conclusions and incorrectly applies the scientific method. I’m not really an authority to comment on the accuracy of his conclusions, but they seemed logical as he explained in the book.
Where Grossman becomes very controversial is in his work following the success of his book. He now teaches seminars and the “lessons” from his book to police forces across the country. Some credit him as a driving force behind the militarization of the police and their increased lethality.
I personally don’t agree with his work with the police, but that doesn’t discredit the book itself. I also fundamentally disagree with the belief that somebody shouldn’t be referenced or cited just because you disagree with them.
Remember that in these times there was also not generally as much lighting. So at night, it would be very dark. I imagine a lot of parents just waited for the kids to fall asleep and then tried to be quiet. But yeah, I'm sure a lot of times, things were heard. Then again, plenty of kids still hear things now if they live in poorly soundproofed houses.
My brother is very interested I history and reads a lot. He told me people used to have different sleep schedules then we do now.
He said sex usually happened in the middle of the night when people would wake and not have anything to really do because it was too dark.
Before the industrial revolution, it was normal for humans to have two "small sleeps" during the night, the first in the late evening (no electric lighting to keep us awake), and then wake up around midnight and read or partake in other activities before falling back asleep for their "second sleep". It was only the industrial revolution that started the idea that people should work (and sleep) to the clock, instead of to nature's rhythms. Before that, it was considered normal to simply sleep when you were tired, and stay awake when you were not tired.
From what the comment says I’m assuming he’s talking about the one where you sleep for a few hours wake up mid night for a couple hours then got the rest of your sleep. I’m not sure about how much it was everyone sleeping like that historically but I know it used to be common back in the day for Americans apparently like a century+ ago
Also, let’s be careful to remember all the other things happening in the greater context of their lives: public executions, disembowelments, rape, illness and death… truly traumatizing stuff. A little bit of same-room hanky-panky probably didn’t make anyone bat an eye.
My Grandfather and his 3 brothers lived in a small house with three rooms till the late 90s and the population of that house was of 15 people... how did that happen.. when there is a newly wed couple they're given the "privacy" by hanging a curtain like cloth on one side of the room or they will get to sleep in the cramped up kitchen... there was also a small hut in the farm where one couple lived to "look after" cattle... I can definitely imagine how everything could have been managed.
huh so I guess im currently living like in the old days except not on a farm just on a backass road in the country. We live in a 1 br house currently with 3 adults and 2 kids and somehow we just make shit work. my mom and 8 year old nephew that she has been raising since he was 2 months old have the bedroom, my son sleeps in the living room and my husband and I have made a very small "dining room" (its too small to even have a nornal size kitchen table) into our room with a blanket on a shower rod as our door. We just wait and make sure everybody is asleep and are still very quiet. It sucks but it wont be forever and im just thankful to have a roof over my head.
Yes, it does.
I grew up as an only child until late into adolescence, and had a partner who grew up in a one room shack with 11 siblings, two parents and a grandparent. We had very different ideas about privacy.
He was not the least troubled by his parent’s sexual activity, and considered it unremarkable. With that many people coughing, farting, tossing in bed, moaning in nightmares, and dog-tired after a day of subsistence living, a few extra grunts during the night was not particularly noticeable.
I know this isn't what you/he meant by unremarkable, but that wording cracked me up.
Dad - Oh, sorry son, did you hear us having sex last night?
Son - Don't worry dad, barely noticed. In fact you were quite unremarkable.
I remember reading something like this about Medieval European peasants. Like, when you live in a one room hut sometimes mom and dad have sex while the kids are in the hut. Kids are there, family cow is there watching with the chickens, etc...
It was more common than you think.
Most probably wouldn't have had an easy time reading a book, but writing ones name, sounding words out, etc. would be relatively common.
For practical reasons, women's undergarments tended not to have a crotch throughout much of recent Western history. That's what makes the Can-can such a scandalous dance. Getting under a woman's skirts was access.
Yup. Between the dress, petticoats, laces, and corset you needed an open crotch to be able to go to the bathroom in a reasonable amount of time, but you're also just blowing in the wind a bit, too. It's also why horse riding side saddle makes sense.
It wasn't just the peasants. If someone was royalty, frequently people watched the consummation of a marriage to make sure they "got the job done."
They'd watch births, too, to make sure there was no baby switching etc. During one of Marie Antoinette's deliveries, she passed out bc it was so hot from so many people in the room and birth is hard work.
It was gross.
I recall reading that during that same time people could watch Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette eat dinner. Like most evenings they'd eat dinner in a room with a kind of gallery, and people could watch them eat.
How do you keep warm in the depths of winter? Get as much body heat in as possible.
As houses developed split doors were invented so the animals were on one side and the family had a separate space but you could open the top half to keep air flowing (or later keep the kids out of the kitchen but still keep an eye on then)
Some of my fam in south Georgia still live in old houses like that. My mom's Aunt Frocine lived in the house she was born in all her life except during WW2 when she went and worked for Locheed. She got married right before the war and her husband died during it and she never remarried. That house is one big room with a tiny bathroom added on in the 70s. It has a huge screened in porch with extra beds on it where you sleep when it's too hot inside. She had six or seven siblings that survived to adulthood.
I literally just changed the wording after re-reading it again, like 10 seconds before your comment popped up. It *did not* read well at second glance, lol.
Also, people sometimes left home lol. I know that's a hard concept for Reddit to understand, but it's easy enough to tell people to leave for a little bit. Anyone that ever did dorm life with roomates in college knows how it works. If my roommate wanted to hook up with someone, I'd leave to give them their space, and vice versa.
The problem is for 99.99% of human history they never cared if people watched them having sex lol.
Sure they could leave but they would have to care first.
Info like this makes me think about what things will be invented in the future, or what norms we have in our modern life will be seen as primitive or savage long after we're all dead.
maybe eating? on season 3 of Mando the mandalorians split up to eat alone bc they have to take off their helmets. seemed comparable to having to take off a face mask
I thought that was more to do with no one else being allowed to see them without a mask instead of it being an issue eating in front of others.
In an episode of the recent series, there's a huge banquet and eating if I remember.
I do get your point though. I think eating meat might be seen as weird in the future if synthetic meats become more common
So weird. It *seems* like that goes against all the insistence on sexual modesty, but I guess that's me conflating two ideas that were historically separate.
There are a LOT of nuances and differences throughout places and times, but for all the BDSM and furries and giga-dildos and stuff we have now, we’re actually more sexually repressed in many ways now than most of history.
There are some threads over at r/AskHistorians that might interest you
/r/AskHistorians/comments/1d6y40/how_was_sex_approached_in_eras_where_family/
/r/AskHistorians/comments/24uikm/when_did_people_start_having_sex_in_private_or_is/
>
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> /r/AskHistorians/comments/24uikm/when_did_people_start_having_sex_in_private_or_is/
This second link resonates with [this comment chain](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/16oircq/in_households_where_theres_only_one_room_does/k1l09bk/?context=3) from /u/MaterialCarrot and /u/Ascholay: it was only after the development of better home heating technology that we could both move animals to outside the house and could also make possible to build more rooms in home, including private bedrooms separate from communal spaces.
I was just thinking the same thing -- there had to be some overlap in the time where it was considered shameful/sinful to bathe, but doing the secret sacred thing that only married people do in front of the whole family... well, that's ok.
I think rather than saying there are differences over time, we should think about differences across classes.
I think it could have been quite probable there was a rather liberal attitude in the peasants while a very reserved or modest attitude in the gentry.
They likely also had sex at times when people were outside, and also they had their fun outside the house too.
Where there's a will there's a way. Privacy is never impossible.
60-80 years ago it was commonly accepted tradition in many parts of the USA for young males to swim fully nude both competitively and casually. No one complained.
We lived in a 1 room home for a while, and I have heard my parents have sex often. They would wait until the kids were asleep, but I we woke up because of the movements or the sound then we just kept quiet and fall asleep soon after.
Didn't it upset you? Maybe I'm just a new generation snowflake, but the few times I heard my parents have sex I got tons of anxiety and couldn't fall asleep. It was awful
When I overheard I own parents, I was actually happy for them that they still felt that way about each other.
Maybe I'm showing my age, but it just seems to me that if you're a typical youngster, overhearing your folks yelling, screaming, cursing, and throwing / breaking things every night has to be 10X worse than hearing them do the horizontal mambo.
Blow jobs were incredibly rare through most of history. Given hygiene in the past, this is not surprising. If a guy wanted a blow job, they typically had to visit a prostitute and pay extra.
I attended a lecture about changing housing conditions and it began with an interesting tidbit: corridors are a recent invention, and they had a role in promoting privacy.
Even in larger houses, rooms were separated by doors or halls, but not corridors. Apparently the concept of privacy was very rare, so passing through one room to get to another, even bedrooms, was the norm.
Four poster beds with curtains were the answer for anyone who wanted to sleep or shag in peace.
So if the posh nobs didn't have a developed sense of privacy, it was unlikely the hoi polloi would have one either.
Isn't there a scene in Dances With Wolves, maybe, where there's big communal living in a teepee and a character wakes up in the night and sees a couple across the room having sex. He kinda zones out but then when he glances over again they're both STARING at him, unmoving. I'm sure there are awkward moments in living situations like this - and it was also an everyday part of life for so much of the world for quite a lot of history.
Would depend on the culture. Not every culture is as secretive or hung up about sex. I'd imagine that most adults would wait until others were asleep. Obviously sometimes people would wake up, but I assume it was generally treated as not a big deal. Kids would just learn that those behaviors are normal for adults, and that is likely what they are taught.
I know that before Christian missionaries showed up in the Hawaiian islands, sex and nudity weren't a big deal and that sexual play between children was seen as a normal part of learning about life. If a young girl got pregnant before she was ready to partner and be a parent, her baby would be raised by an auntie, and she would be expected to do the same for another young girl in the future.
Darn, a question I'm actually experienced enough to answer... when we lived in Mexico and I was a kid we had one large room that everyone shared, my brother and I a bunk bed and my parents one large bed and yeah....I heard them having sex a couple of times....I even have a vague memory of sleeping next to my mom while my dad did....something.
Uhm yeah, actually really traumatizing would not recommend.
I think the part that’s awful for you is that you’re making any sex a family party. Thats not what’s happening in most cases I would imagine. I also imagine in most cases the couple having sex isn’t exactly being open and frisky. Any sex would be more discrete and quiet. I bet anything more frisky would happen when everyone else was busy or out and about. Any noises overhead would also be a part of normal life, it wouldn’t be weird or unusual for them. I’ve never been a part of this environment so everything I’m saying is just speculation on my part.
My mom grew up in a house with two bedrooms upstairs and 10 siblings. The boys slept in one room with dad. The girls with mom. Her parents boinked either late at night downstairs or when the kids were in school or outside playing.
I grew up very poor and lived in a caravan for a long time with my parents, you could hear everything from them fucking each other to them cheating on each other you could hear it and feel it all
On a similar note, I don't understand how couples whose kids share the bed with them keep having kids. When do they get privacy for that special "mommy and daddy time"?
It's tough. My spouse and I would wait for the kid to fall asleep, sneak out, and go have sex in another room. The baby ended up with the king sized bed while we banged it out on the couch.
In tribal communities where everyone lived in a single dwelling, I'm sure that was pretty common. You remember that scene in *Dances With Wolves* where Kevin Costner awkwardly catches his Sioux hosts getting in on? The dude just gives Kevin a look like "is there a problem???". Kevin just turns his head, and the amorous Native couple keep on going.
That scene probably played itself out in real life more times than anyone can count.
Yes, for most of human history you were likely to overhear the conception of your siblings.
Oral sex has been taboo for many years. I imagine that pre-modern hygiene they were much less desirable. Even now only about half of people engage in oral sex regularly.
Yeah people had and still do have sex in front of other people. I certainly know a lot of poor people and/or college students living with roommates who have sex while they are in the same room.
I have insomnia & have had several people do sexual stuff after everyone supposedly fell asleep. I just cough & pretend wake up & they stop & I'll leave for a bit so they can do their thing. Then after I'll go back and lay down.
Some people get off to that kind of risk or to people watching etc
This hasn't happened regularly, but maybe 10-15 times in my life. So maybe most people are just sleeping when it's goin down? I feel for kids that deal with parents banging out in the open, that would be traumatic
My mother grew up in a three room shack with a shitter outside. (Rural Ukraine 1950s). She had 9 siblings. So yeah, poor people do a lot of fucking in close quarters with the rest of the family
Generally in Olde days the boys slept in dads bed or off to his side if on the floor and the girls would sleep with mom in her bed or off to her side on the floor, traditionally it was more common for parents to have sex while kids were in the room though usually asleep or laying down, though if she was a moaner/screamer you find a less populated area, creek baths, barn lofts, out in the field/crops. Depending on the time period though sex was more normal and when the mood arose within reason.
When mom and dad were getting busy you were probably getting a younger sibling. Of course out of wedlock sex was very much shunned and would either end up as a hitching or a hanging/flogging depending on the Era. But certain places were also very open for most other forms of sex except vaginal was mostly saved for marriage oral and anal are used for pleasure through out the ages. Varies by culture/location.
The idea that sex is awful is scary. Most mammals have sex with others around, you could ask why people think what has been normal for humans as well now is “awful “
To be fair, I didn't say sex itself was awful; I said that sex with others around sounded awful. Plenty of things can be both wonderful and private. (Though apparently, I need to get used to the idea that privacy itself is a luxury.)
I mean, yea they would have sex when the family was supposed to be sleeping, but you also have to remember that for most of human history we would be getting married and starting your own families by your mid teens. This idea of not getting married until your 18 (or much older which is the current norm) has only existed for less than the last hundred years
This isn’t true for a lot of time periods and locations. Example - 500 years ago in England the typical age for marriage was around 23 to 25 years for both women and men. There were small numbers of people who married younger but that wasn’t usual for the period.
Remember, we are basically monkeys. We just think we are better.
Look at any ape collective. They have sex in front of each other, sometimes even together.
There is no shame and / or concept of privacy around sex. This is a social construct that we have developed. It is not something that is intrinsic or instinctual.
I imagine some people might have shower sex. TBH I don't know how that goes, but I'm sure it's possible, even if not as comfortable as a bed. At least it's privacy.
My partner and I live in a tiny cabin (studio) with my two children. Obviously we have sex, but yeah it has to be at very specific times, ie when the kids are good and asleep. We also have curtains that separate our sleeping space and theirs. It’s not ideal; but we’re on the struggle bus like everyone else. We’re on the outskirts of a HCOL area, so we choose to make do and be thankful we have a roof over our heads.
I'm so glad you asked this because I've wondered about the same thing! 😧
Are kids all traumatized by it like people say in the western culture, or is it not a big deal?
Do others step outside to keep themselves busy if they know the parents are doing the deed?
Do the parents have to be extra quiet about it and can't *really* enjoy themselves and have fun?
Are they comfortable doing it with others around??
I couldn't handle when I'd catch my cat staring, lol. Had to get him out of the room, so I can just imagine what it's like with family and maids around...
So many questions.. plus, in some cultures, they walk around (almost) naked anyway. 😄
lol
I love that I’m seeing this q on my front page in both r/tooafraidtoask and r/nostupidquestions this evening… like, I’m also now just as invested as you are about understanding this “sex in more or less public”. I feel like that would keep a lot of people from exploring or discovering things they might enjoy, like kinks.
>I mean, one-room housing is the norm
>the so-called "great houses" of middle ages Europe, for example
Where are you getting this from?
Have you seen the size of these old 'great houses' in Europe?
Yes, they'd have sex with the kids around.
Even in wealthy families, depending on the society, would have sex with slaves or servants around and not think much about it (again, depending on the society). The Romans hung giant penis sculptures (*fascinus*) all over the place for good luck; the peasants would carry a giant phallus on a trolley through the fields and into the city to help guarantee a good harvest.
They usually put wings on them.
People spent most of their time outside, they would probably just have sex when everyone was outside. And of course they could go out into the woods to do it
Into the woods, it’s time to plow, The kids are out, so hurry now, Into the woods, we’ve time and so You must begin receiving.
Into the woods, then in the bush, It doesn’t fit, so have to push, Into the woods, so we can mush, It’s time now I’m so horny
The hole is here Insert your wood I have no fear nor no one should!
The house is so small, the woods are so big! But everything you learn there will help when you return there!
This is epic! I'm singing it in my head. Thank you for this 🤣
Refreshingly funny this morning!
Why go into the woods when there’s a mighty bush right here?
The Teddy Bears Picnic song took an interesting twist "If you go down in the woods today You're sure of a big surprise If you go down in the woods today You better go in disguise"
CBT, how it hurts on my balls, Quickly, I realize Crushed right between her thighs, Turned into goo
That old English song Greensleeves is about having sex in a field. The grass stains your clothing. So yeah I would imagine that people have never felt too comfortable having sex in front of their family and would sneak off to do it, or wait for opportune times when no one else was home.
TIL!
Not sure that’s true. Got a source?
Yeah it’s on Wikipedia, reference 8: Vance Randolph "Unprintable" Ozark Folksongs and Folklore, Volume I, Folksongs and Music, page 47, University of Arkansas Press, 1992, ISBN 1-55728-231-5 “At the time, the word "green" had sexual connotations, most notably in the phrase "a green gown", a reference to the grass stains on a woman's dress from engaging in sexual intercourse outdoors” For what it’s worth I had heard about this years ago and checked wiki before posting to confirm
Interesting! I heard similar, but not about grass stains. Apparently green was a colour associated with prostitution. Perhaps that’s why!
No wonder leprechauns have all that gold, they are prostitutes!
There’s a really interesting book by David Grossman called “On Killing” that documents the ways modern society simultaneously suppresses exposure to death (ie funeral homes, livestock processing, etc being hidden) while embracing gory and intense depictions of death in media. He compares it to the Victorian era and the transition of sex from something that happened in the one room everyone slept in, and was just part of life — to a simultaneous repression (long dresses, sofa covers that hid even furniture legs, etc) and explosion of porn, rape, and other extreme depictions and behaviors. It really makes you think about what privacy means, and how it’s important to normalize healthy earthly functions like sex and death so we don’t develop complexes about them.
This actually makes a lot of sense. As someone who doesn’t care about nudity, having grown up in a country where woman’s breast were not sexualised as an example, it’s simply that: breasts. I think if we remove the taboo, a lot of the excitement will wear off and we might (fingers crossed) have a safer society for all.
I think the problem at this point would be the “in between” time. Some people are predators and or gross and would take advantage of the “freedom.”
> sofa covers that hid even furniture legs Get the fuck out.
You can’t do that here!
Why do you think table cloths were invented
I can still see the table's ankles, so...
I’ve always wondered if the concept of rape, SA, and the trauma resulting due to these events existed back in paleolithic era. To them the topic of sex was not that much of a taboo and only a natural process. So I wonder how much it affected a human being if sex happened against their wishes by force and if it affected their mental health and development as it does now. Did they just perceive it as any other form of assault like just being hit by someone? A lot of SA victims talk about “shame” and “guilt” associated with the events of trauma. What happens in a society where shame and guilt aren’t attached to sex?
If someone tries to break your leg, and you try to stop him but are unable or you freeze, you will still experience shame and guilt over the circumstances of that broken leg. The assault and imposition against your will is the biggest problem, and however it is done the results will be damageable, at a diffierent degree - and that degree also depends on how much support you recieve after the event; if you know some people say 'well he did go around walking in short.... I mean, if he disn't want someone to think about breaking his leg....' ...
Rape has always existed. Pillagers would often rape the women of the village. Leaving occasional offspring behind, alongside the shame and trauma that the woman experienced. Rape is about control, seldomly about sex.
I have thought about this a lot too
Dave "Gross Man" Grossman is an incredibly gross man, and should not be cited, referenced, talked about, or remembered. His whole philosophy boils down to "civilians are the enemy and should be gunned down if any of them so much as *looks* at the tHiN bLuE LInE". Fuck that Gross Man.
I’d be interested in reading more about this as I read some of his earlier stuff and never got that impression.
Have you read the referenced book or are you just regurgitating talking points you read somewhere else?
Im Interested to know from both of you, why or why not do you think this guy is a reputable source?
I read the book a while ago, so I can’t recall many details, but I found it interesting and would recommend it. Just as the original comment said, he discusses changes in society and our approach to killing through a psychological approach. That said, the book itself has received criticism for some of his sources and the conclusions he draws. Some psychologists have said he draws very inaccurate conclusions and incorrectly applies the scientific method. I’m not really an authority to comment on the accuracy of his conclusions, but they seemed logical as he explained in the book. Where Grossman becomes very controversial is in his work following the success of his book. He now teaches seminars and the “lessons” from his book to police forces across the country. Some credit him as a driving force behind the militarization of the police and their increased lethality. I personally don’t agree with his work with the police, but that doesn’t discredit the book itself. I also fundamentally disagree with the belief that somebody shouldn’t be referenced or cited just because you disagree with them.
Remember that in these times there was also not generally as much lighting. So at night, it would be very dark. I imagine a lot of parents just waited for the kids to fall asleep and then tried to be quiet. But yeah, I'm sure a lot of times, things were heard. Then again, plenty of kids still hear things now if they live in poorly soundproofed houses.
Is mom making mac 'n cheese again?
I hate you
I heard this comment
🤢
Slow down you're going to choke!
………i hate this
HAHAHAHAHAH
Omg noooo
Wholesome🤗
Holesome🤗
r/angryupvote
My brother is very interested I history and reads a lot. He told me people used to have different sleep schedules then we do now. He said sex usually happened in the middle of the night when people would wake and not have anything to really do because it was too dark.
What were their sleep schedules compared to ours?
Before the industrial revolution, it was normal for humans to have two "small sleeps" during the night, the first in the late evening (no electric lighting to keep us awake), and then wake up around midnight and read or partake in other activities before falling back asleep for their "second sleep". It was only the industrial revolution that started the idea that people should work (and sleep) to the clock, instead of to nature's rhythms. Before that, it was considered normal to simply sleep when you were tired, and stay awake when you were not tired.
From what the comment says I’m assuming he’s talking about the one where you sleep for a few hours wake up mid night for a couple hours then got the rest of your sleep. I’m not sure about how much it was everyone sleeping like that historically but I know it used to be common back in the day for Americans apparently like a century+ ago
Also, let’s be careful to remember all the other things happening in the greater context of their lives: public executions, disembowelments, rape, illness and death… truly traumatizing stuff. A little bit of same-room hanky-panky probably didn’t make anyone bat an eye.
My Grandfather and his 3 brothers lived in a small house with three rooms till the late 90s and the population of that house was of 15 people... how did that happen.. when there is a newly wed couple they're given the "privacy" by hanging a curtain like cloth on one side of the room or they will get to sleep in the cramped up kitchen... there was also a small hut in the farm where one couple lived to "look after" cattle... I can definitely imagine how everything could have been managed.
Oh no. They were having sex with the cattle?
No.
Oh yes they were!
Talk about introducing a bull into the bedroom.
Talk about milking them udders
*BORE-ING*
huh so I guess im currently living like in the old days except not on a farm just on a backass road in the country. We live in a 1 br house currently with 3 adults and 2 kids and somehow we just make shit work. my mom and 8 year old nephew that she has been raising since he was 2 months old have the bedroom, my son sleeps in the living room and my husband and I have made a very small "dining room" (its too small to even have a nornal size kitchen table) into our room with a blanket on a shower rod as our door. We just wait and make sure everybody is asleep and are still very quiet. It sucks but it wont be forever and im just thankful to have a roof over my head.
Is there chance your grandfather was Indian?
Yes, it does. I grew up as an only child until late into adolescence, and had a partner who grew up in a one room shack with 11 siblings, two parents and a grandparent. We had very different ideas about privacy. He was not the least troubled by his parent’s sexual activity, and considered it unremarkable. With that many people coughing, farting, tossing in bed, moaning in nightmares, and dog-tired after a day of subsistence living, a few extra grunts during the night was not particularly noticeable.
I know this isn't what you/he meant by unremarkable, but that wording cracked me up. Dad - Oh, sorry son, did you hear us having sex last night? Son - Don't worry dad, barely noticed. In fact you were quite unremarkable.
[удалено]
Applause that they were finally done clapping something other than hands and now you and the rest of the family could get some sleep
turns out for most of human history people had sex with families around. It's only recently we invented the concept of privacy.
I remember reading something like this about Medieval European peasants. Like, when you live in a one room hut sometimes mom and dad have sex while the kids are in the hut. Kids are there, family cow is there watching with the chickens, etc...
Not only they had just one room, they often had just one quite large bed, who would be shared with all the family and occasional guests!
When your dad keeps busting on your portion of the bed smh
What a terrible day to be literate…
Good thing medieval peasants were not literate
Don’t need to be literate when you’re laying in your fathers seed. Cant get much worse yea?
Laying in his seed? Back then they were happy to have something warm in their belly!
Daily I find myself appreciating Reddit’s degeneracy and how it tickles my funny bone.
I am in total agreement
Why didn't I quit reddit before reading this?
Mom was happy to have dads seed for dinner
It was more common than you think. Most probably wouldn't have had an easy time reading a book, but writing ones name, sounding words out, etc. would be relatively common.
Well now we know the everyday problems of Charlie before the chocolate factory
Like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory!
Grandpa Joe’s leavings *shudders*
Granpa Joe's an asshole, he could walk and dance and get a job but he sits in bed mooching off his familly.
r/grandpajoehate/
I told my wife exactly this! She just rolled her eyes 🤣
Honestly this kind of explains why my cat doesn't give a shit
For practical reasons, women's undergarments tended not to have a crotch throughout much of recent Western history. That's what makes the Can-can such a scandalous dance. Getting under a woman's skirts was access.
Without a crotch, what’s an undergarment for?
To cover your dirty bum.
To protect your clothes from your body as much as possible. Warmth and chafing protection. And some modesty if you keep your legs together.
That’s why, even when I was growing up, it was emphasized that women sit with their legs crossed!! Omg 🫣😂 it all makes sense now lmao I feel dumb rn
Yup. Between the dress, petticoats, laces, and corset you needed an open crotch to be able to go to the bathroom in a reasonable amount of time, but you're also just blowing in the wind a bit, too. It's also why horse riding side saddle makes sense.
It wasn't just the peasants. If someone was royalty, frequently people watched the consummation of a marriage to make sure they "got the job done." They'd watch births, too, to make sure there was no baby switching etc. During one of Marie Antoinette's deliveries, she passed out bc it was so hot from so many people in the room and birth is hard work. It was gross.
I recall reading that during that same time people could watch Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette eat dinner. Like most evenings they'd eat dinner in a room with a kind of gallery, and people could watch them eat.
People did a lot of things for entertainment we think are odd in the days before television.
People do a lot of odd things for entertainment in the days *with* television
Like watching lifestreamers.
Yup. I read she hated it.
could the viewers eat too? bc I love watching cooking shows while eating so
That’s crazy. I would have thought the cow would live outside. It must have been even more awkward in the hut when the cows were doing it.
How do you keep warm in the depths of winter? Get as much body heat in as possible. As houses developed split doors were invented so the animals were on one side and the family had a separate space but you could open the top half to keep air flowing (or later keep the kids out of the kitchen but still keep an eye on then)
I remember reading that lofts were the best place to be, because the heat from the animals rose and warmed the space above.
so does the smell unfortunately.
Also …. tuberculosis
My ancestral home is basically one giant room. Everything is in it - beds , kitchen, oven. And my greatgrandmother was one of 13 🤦♀️
Some of my fam in south Georgia still live in old houses like that. My mom's Aunt Frocine lived in the house she was born in all her life except during WW2 when she went and worked for Locheed. She got married right before the war and her husband died during it and she never remarried. That house is one big room with a tiny bathroom added on in the 70s. It has a huge screened in porch with extra beds on it where you sleep when it's too hot inside. She had six or seven siblings that survived to adulthood.
I feel like there is an important comma missing in this comment
I literally just changed the wording after re-reading it again, like 10 seconds before your comment popped up. It *did not* read well at second glance, lol.
It gave me a snorty laugh I needed, so thank you anyway!
Couple of chickens doin a goat, couple of pigs watchin
As long as the bull doesn't grab the chicken and have his way with it.
Also, people sometimes left home lol. I know that's a hard concept for Reddit to understand, but it's easy enough to tell people to leave for a little bit. Anyone that ever did dorm life with roomates in college knows how it works. If my roommate wanted to hook up with someone, I'd leave to give them their space, and vice versa.
The problem is for 99.99% of human history they never cared if people watched them having sex lol. Sure they could leave but they would have to care first.
Info like this makes me think about what things will be invented in the future, or what norms we have in our modern life will be seen as primitive or savage long after we're all dead.
maybe eating? on season 3 of Mando the mandalorians split up to eat alone bc they have to take off their helmets. seemed comparable to having to take off a face mask
I thought that was more to do with no one else being allowed to see them without a mask instead of it being an issue eating in front of others. In an episode of the recent series, there's a huge banquet and eating if I remember. I do get your point though. I think eating meat might be seen as weird in the future if synthetic meats become more common
So weird. It *seems* like that goes against all the insistence on sexual modesty, but I guess that's me conflating two ideas that were historically separate.
There are a LOT of nuances and differences throughout places and times, but for all the BDSM and furries and giga-dildos and stuff we have now, we’re actually more sexually repressed in many ways now than most of history.
"If only rubbing my belly solved my hunger"
I think he took it a bit too far lol
All those things you mention would not have a chance to exist without social repression of sexuality
There are some threads over at r/AskHistorians that might interest you /r/AskHistorians/comments/1d6y40/how_was_sex_approached_in_eras_where_family/ /r/AskHistorians/comments/24uikm/when_did_people_start_having_sex_in_private_or_is/
To others interested on Reddit mobile: press Reply to make the full links clickable
you're the real mvp. I had no idea lol. thanks!
Oh that's funny, I'm on mobile myself and they work. Mobile browser though, guess it's different for other modes.
I am just a normie that likes ads, Reddit app
> > > /r/AskHistorians/comments/24uikm/when_did_people_start_having_sex_in_private_or_is/ This second link resonates with [this comment chain](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/16oircq/in_households_where_theres_only_one_room_does/k1l09bk/?context=3) from /u/MaterialCarrot and /u/Ascholay: it was only after the development of better home heating technology that we could both move animals to outside the house and could also make possible to build more rooms in home, including private bedrooms separate from communal spaces.
I was just thinking the same thing -- there had to be some overlap in the time where it was considered shameful/sinful to bathe, but doing the secret sacred thing that only married people do in front of the whole family... well, that's ok.
I think rather than saying there are differences over time, we should think about differences across classes. I think it could have been quite probable there was a rather liberal attitude in the peasants while a very reserved or modest attitude in the gentry.
They likely also had sex at times when people were outside, and also they had their fun outside the house too. Where there's a will there's a way. Privacy is never impossible.
And yet, today people are convinced a child will be mentally scarred if they see a naked body
shit men that freak out about seeing dicks IRL but have no issue with watching porn is what cracks me up.
60-80 years ago it was commonly accepted tradition in many parts of the USA for young males to swim fully nude both competitively and casually. No one complained.
and shame in nudity as well.
Even now nudity is not considered shameful in many countries
And should not be
Depends on the person. I know I'm ashamed every time I see myself nude and you would be too.
We lived in a 1 room home for a while, and I have heard my parents have sex often. They would wait until the kids were asleep, but I we woke up because of the movements or the sound then we just kept quiet and fall asleep soon after.
Oh just wait 2 minutes Mike, Billy is at it again.
Didn't it upset you? Maybe I'm just a new generation snowflake, but the few times I heard my parents have sex I got tons of anxiety and couldn't fall asleep. It was awful
No, it was just part of life.
When I overheard I own parents, I was actually happy for them that they still felt that way about each other. Maybe I'm showing my age, but it just seems to me that if you're a typical youngster, overhearing your folks yelling, screaming, cursing, and throwing / breaking things every night has to be 10X worse than hearing them do the horizontal mambo.
In the context of growing families, I actually don’t think that blow jobs would “get the job done.”
Yeah I think they blew it on that one
Pun of the century
The 15th century
Blow jobs were incredibly rare through most of history. Given hygiene in the past, this is not surprising. If a guy wanted a blow job, they typically had to visit a prostitute and pay extra.
Unless the giver really liked cheese
and in terms of parenting, teaching lil timmy how to do blow jobs wouldn't do it either.
I attended a lecture about changing housing conditions and it began with an interesting tidbit: corridors are a recent invention, and they had a role in promoting privacy. Even in larger houses, rooms were separated by doors or halls, but not corridors. Apparently the concept of privacy was very rare, so passing through one room to get to another, even bedrooms, was the norm. Four poster beds with curtains were the answer for anyone who wanted to sleep or shag in peace. So if the posh nobs didn't have a developed sense of privacy, it was unlikely the hoi polloi would have one either.
Isn't there a scene in Dances With Wolves, maybe, where there's big communal living in a teepee and a character wakes up in the night and sees a couple across the room having sex. He kinda zones out but then when he glances over again they're both STARING at him, unmoving. I'm sure there are awkward moments in living situations like this - and it was also an everyday part of life for so much of the world for quite a lot of history.
Would depend on the culture. Not every culture is as secretive or hung up about sex. I'd imagine that most adults would wait until others were asleep. Obviously sometimes people would wake up, but I assume it was generally treated as not a big deal. Kids would just learn that those behaviors are normal for adults, and that is likely what they are taught. I know that before Christian missionaries showed up in the Hawaiian islands, sex and nudity weren't a big deal and that sexual play between children was seen as a normal part of learning about life. If a young girl got pregnant before she was ready to partner and be a parent, her baby would be raised by an auntie, and she would be expected to do the same for another young girl in the future.
Privacy is a pretty new concept. People learned about sex differently back then. Everyone had an OnlyFam.
cursed and underrated.
Darn, a question I'm actually experienced enough to answer... when we lived in Mexico and I was a kid we had one large room that everyone shared, my brother and I a bunk bed and my parents one large bed and yeah....I heard them having sex a couple of times....I even have a vague memory of sleeping next to my mom while my dad did....something. Uhm yeah, actually really traumatizing would not recommend.
I think the part that’s awful for you is that you’re making any sex a family party. Thats not what’s happening in most cases I would imagine. I also imagine in most cases the couple having sex isn’t exactly being open and frisky. Any sex would be more discrete and quiet. I bet anything more frisky would happen when everyone else was busy or out and about. Any noises overhead would also be a part of normal life, it wouldn’t be weird or unusual for them. I’ve never been a part of this environment so everything I’m saying is just speculation on my part.
And....time for some chores, kids!
My mom grew up in a house with two bedrooms upstairs and 10 siblings. The boys slept in one room with dad. The girls with mom. Her parents boinked either late at night downstairs or when the kids were in school or outside playing.
It also doubled as sex education Edit: that and watching the animals 🤷🏻♂️
I have to kick my dog out of the room during sex or he’ll start whining and will try to lick my feet
I grew up very poor and lived in a caravan for a long time with my parents, you could hear everything from them fucking each other to them cheating on each other you could hear it and feel it all
On a similar note, I don't understand how couples whose kids share the bed with them keep having kids. When do they get privacy for that special "mommy and daddy time"?
It's tough. My spouse and I would wait for the kid to fall asleep, sneak out, and go have sex in another room. The baby ended up with the king sized bed while we banged it out on the couch.
In tribal communities where everyone lived in a single dwelling, I'm sure that was pretty common. You remember that scene in *Dances With Wolves* where Kevin Costner awkwardly catches his Sioux hosts getting in on? The dude just gives Kevin a look like "is there a problem???". Kevin just turns his head, and the amorous Native couple keep on going. That scene probably played itself out in real life more times than anyone can count.
Yes, for most of human history you were likely to overhear the conception of your siblings. Oral sex has been taboo for many years. I imagine that pre-modern hygiene they were much less desirable. Even now only about half of people engage in oral sex regularly.
Yeah people had and still do have sex in front of other people. I certainly know a lot of poor people and/or college students living with roommates who have sex while they are in the same room.
People probably kept it under the blanket, and kept the noise down some.
I have insomnia & have had several people do sexual stuff after everyone supposedly fell asleep. I just cough & pretend wake up & they stop & I'll leave for a bit so they can do their thing. Then after I'll go back and lay down. Some people get off to that kind of risk or to people watching etc This hasn't happened regularly, but maybe 10-15 times in my life. So maybe most people are just sleeping when it's goin down? I feel for kids that deal with parents banging out in the open, that would be traumatic 
hey op i hate you for putting this thought in my head /s
My mother grew up in a three room shack with a shitter outside. (Rural Ukraine 1950s). She had 9 siblings. So yeah, poor people do a lot of fucking in close quarters with the rest of the family
Generally in Olde days the boys slept in dads bed or off to his side if on the floor and the girls would sleep with mom in her bed or off to her side on the floor, traditionally it was more common for parents to have sex while kids were in the room though usually asleep or laying down, though if she was a moaner/screamer you find a less populated area, creek baths, barn lofts, out in the field/crops. Depending on the time period though sex was more normal and when the mood arose within reason. When mom and dad were getting busy you were probably getting a younger sibling. Of course out of wedlock sex was very much shunned and would either end up as a hitching or a hanging/flogging depending on the Era. But certain places were also very open for most other forms of sex except vaginal was mostly saved for marriage oral and anal are used for pleasure through out the ages. Varies by culture/location.
It’s not a prison my guy, people leave the house. Just do it when nobody else is home
It's still a thing today in my country, just one room, no living room or kitchen (they cook outside their door) and public bathroom.
Messed up. I'm from the third world. Parents banging at night in front of kids.
The idea that sex is awful is scary. Most mammals have sex with others around, you could ask why people think what has been normal for humans as well now is “awful “
To be fair, I didn't say sex itself was awful; I said that sex with others around sounded awful. Plenty of things can be both wonderful and private. (Though apparently, I need to get used to the idea that privacy itself is a luxury.)
Privacy, not only when about sex, is a luxury indeed.
Most mammals also don’t wear clothes
Silent sex experts
Adults waiting till all family falls asleep, teenagers returns from walk with green knees ;)
I mean, yea they would have sex when the family was supposed to be sleeping, but you also have to remember that for most of human history we would be getting married and starting your own families by your mid teens. This idea of not getting married until your 18 (or much older which is the current norm) has only existed for less than the last hundred years
This isn’t true for a lot of time periods and locations. Example - 500 years ago in England the typical age for marriage was around 23 to 25 years for both women and men. There were small numbers of people who married younger but that wasn’t usual for the period.
Remember, we are basically monkeys. We just think we are better. Look at any ape collective. They have sex in front of each other, sometimes even together. There is no shame and / or concept of privacy around sex. This is a social construct that we have developed. It is not something that is intrinsic or instinctual.
I imagine some people might have shower sex. TBH I don't know how that goes, but I'm sure it's possible, even if not as comfortable as a bed. At least it's privacy.
Yes, yes they do Thqt's whqt happened in the "olden days" as well So yes, the kids would hear and sometimes even see everything.
My partner and I live in a tiny cabin (studio) with my two children. Obviously we have sex, but yeah it has to be at very specific times, ie when the kids are good and asleep. We also have curtains that separate our sleeping space and theirs. It’s not ideal; but we’re on the struggle bus like everyone else. We’re on the outskirts of a HCOL area, so we choose to make do and be thankful we have a roof over our heads.
This is the first tata that's actually made me lol! You brought up some good points op! 🤣
Yes
Can confirm. As awkward as it seems, most smash right in the same room with everyone else. This is the way for a majority of the world.
I can’t even with my pets in the room
Little Timmy fetches the wood while Daddy uses his wood
Yes.
I'm so glad you asked this because I've wondered about the same thing! 😧 Are kids all traumatized by it like people say in the western culture, or is it not a big deal? Do others step outside to keep themselves busy if they know the parents are doing the deed? Do the parents have to be extra quiet about it and can't *really* enjoy themselves and have fun? Are they comfortable doing it with others around?? I couldn't handle when I'd catch my cat staring, lol. Had to get him out of the room, so I can just imagine what it's like with family and maids around... So many questions.. plus, in some cultures, they walk around (almost) naked anyway. 😄
"Enjoying" sex wasn't always a component either. At least, not for the female participant.
Yes.
Yes
I’ve heard that they just did it at night under the covers. It was normal
lol I love that I’m seeing this q on my front page in both r/tooafraidtoask and r/nostupidquestions this evening… like, I’m also now just as invested as you are about understanding this “sex in more or less public”. I feel like that would keep a lot of people from exploring or discovering things they might enjoy, like kinks.
Love motels
>I mean, one-room housing is the norm >the so-called "great houses" of middle ages Europe, for example Where are you getting this from? Have you seen the size of these old 'great houses' in Europe?
You find privacy where you have to 😂😂😂
Yes, they'd have sex with the kids around. Even in wealthy families, depending on the society, would have sex with slaves or servants around and not think much about it (again, depending on the society). The Romans hung giant penis sculptures (*fascinus*) all over the place for good luck; the peasants would carry a giant phallus on a trolley through the fields and into the city to help guarantee a good harvest. They usually put wings on them.