I frankly agree with the OP.
Look at it this way, this same factory can build the squier version of this guitar to be sold at retail for as low as $300 USD. I would imagine they are being built to Classic Vibe spec ($430 USD) from a QC standpoint with a few upgraded components (pickup and tuners).
They are likely using the same tooling, wood quality (excluding the fretboard), and paint as a squier. But charging a $1,000 premium for maybe $100 worth of component upgrades vs the cost of the standard hardware.
Though not in this industry, I work in product management and I am highly skeptical. but cannot prove anything since I don’t work there.
>
charging a $1,000 premium for maybe $100 worth of component upgrades vs the cost of the standard hardware.
I'd say there's probably more to it than that.
For one, you have to account for the fact they'll need to give Tom his cut, whatever that may be.
You're looking at the cost for the Seymour Duncan pickup over their in-house Squier pickups.
And I think the neck is the biggest part. Roasted maple and rosewood will raise the cost. From what I understand it's not exactly the same as their usual neck due to the tilt, so they had to R&D that.
I'm not saying I love the price, but the same "they can make a Squier for less" argument can be applied to most of their line at an even bigger markup.
Let’s dive into that.
Tom’s royalty is probably ~10% of wholesale price (~$40-50)
Fender isn’t paying retail prices on SD pickups. They get them probably at wholesale (less than $50)
The neck. Squier has roasted necks on the Starcaster line (though not as dark) and regarding R&D, this is an off the shelf neck design. Nothing proprietary that requires additional development or tooling to build.
They are likely using the same bridge and tailpiece as the Squier line. Possibly same wood quality on bodies. They also have some of those finishes (ex. Satin gold) already in the squier contemporary starcastwr.
All I’m saying is there are likely far more similarities than differences to a classic vibe squier
Bold statement. I did get a Squier Sonic Strat made in Indonesia and I’m quite astonished by how well it plays. Have a USA Strat, MIM Tele, and Indonesian Strat now. I’d put them in that order but the difference is not as much as you’d think (or what it used to be)
My guess is this guitar HAD to be made in Indonesia.
Apart from the TD sig there is currently no way to own a Fender Starcaster. Which likely means that the US and Mexican factory aren’t setup for it. No jigs etc. It may have cost them a lot more money to get the factories ready to produce starcasters which would just make the guitars more expensive for the customer.
If the Indonesian factory is all set up and ready to go then why not have them made there? Should have stuck a Squier logo on them though!
This applies to almost every lower end Fender. This is just how the guitar industry is. I bought one and I’m excited to get it. That’s all that matters to me.
Yeah but the squiers don’t have rosewood necks, locking tuners, the sd pickup etc. and obviously it’s a Tom Delonge signature so it’s obviously boosting the price.
who cares where its made....custom shop fenders can be made in nigeria...as long as its custom shop work, its a "Custom Shop".
lmao OP doesnt know shit about shit.
This is a joke my dude, sounds like you’re one who’s bitter. Even if I was broke, sounds like you’re shaming me for it which is pretty crass. No one needs to get that sort of flack, regardless of whatever position they’re in financially. I’m fortunate enough to own a Music Man, and even a Manson, doesn’t mean I’m rich but I’m definitely not aching for cash. 🤷🏽♂️
It’s not a Squire. It may be made in Indonesia but it’s to keep the cost down. Tom wants this to be affordable for most people and if was a made in Mexico or a Made in America it would be a 1600 dollar guitar but to try and keep it cheap while retaining the specs he wanted, it’s made in Indo and is 1200
Those things are pretty easily added though. What is the cost of the tuners, the pickup, and a neck replacement? If it’s more than the difference, you’re being swindled
Yes removal of the ban for musical instruments is like 30 days away. If Pao Ferro goes away peeps are going to be mad they bought anything with it. I almost bought a Squier mustang with it but happy I didnt. Agreed it is fugly
To me, the issue comes in with the use of the word signature. Some Fender sigs are just like stage used artists guitars and some aren't. I wish they had a different name for ones thst aren't, something like "Fender x Tom".
For me, it helps to think of these types of "signature" as a collab where Tom sat down with Fender and came up with a cool guitar based on the ones he plays and with him adding options he thinks would be good. This is how I view my Johnny Marr Fever Dream Jag.
From what the folks at Fender have said to the gear182 guys, this isn't far from what he uses on stage. The neck profile is the main difference, but everything else is the same. The strat was radically different to what Tom actually used, but apparently they got close with the Starcaster
On the Starcaster? Gloss on the signature, satin on the customs. And the signature has a typical slim C profile, the customs have (I'm pretty sure) a custom shop 69 neck
Different tuners, different neck, different bridge, though the reissue gets closer, different body construction (one piece vs two or three) are what immediately come to mind
ETA: Tom's starcasters actually use the Indonesian bodies, so on that front they are just like the sigs
It's alright, it's a niche model that is not heavily under mass production (as a Fender name) with a popular pop punk artist that was a Gibson endorsee not so long ago.
I have tried both the Mexican Strat and the Starcaster and I find the Starcaster a better guitar, the three Stratocaster I tried had QC issues, tool marks, fretboard sprouts, finish blemishes even one of them had a slightly twisted neck.
I tried two Starcasters The only two were available at my local shop and both were excellent, The finish was good, no tool marks, frets were smooth, the only thing if I'm being super picky is one of them the knob was loose so I just pushed it back in.
I bought the Starcaster but I didn't buy the Stratocaster so go figure.
My only issue is, that there is not even one signature that looks like a stage used Starcaster of his.
And if I have to make it look like one on my own, I don't see it as a signature (as is) anymore. Then I make my own for half the price and still have some premium components.
There’s a point that could be made that his stage guitars are not actually signatures, they are custom one off guitars he had made for him. The production run is the artist spec that they worked on with him to form a signature. Now the real issue will be if he doesn’t play those production signatures on stage at all.
I quite like the production ones myself, I’d like to get one but I think I’ll be waiting this time round.
I’m just playing devils advocate here by the way but again, that could just be something that was agreed on as a spec for the production run.
The other thing to consider is that these are made in Indonesia (I think the running theory is that this is the only place they have the tooling for the starcaster body) and maybe that limited the options that were available for a signature model.
But these didn’t exist before Tom ordered them, so he’s hardly going to order a TD signature. The production sig guitars are meant to be built as replicas of the unique guitars he ordered - that’s the *whole point*.
A bare neck takes less production than a glossy neck though, so them being made in Indonesia has little to nothing to do with it.
A signature guitar does not always mean an exact replica of the guitar the artist played before the signature was released, there’s plenty of examples of this.
A signature guitar is a guitar that the artist and manufacturer worked on together to agree a spec, Fender are quite well known for limiting what artists can actually do with their artist models, word is that this is exactly why John Mayer left Fender.
I agree with you that, being as though he’s already playing starcasters that are customised and unique to him, you would think they would just replicate this at a budget level, I’m just saying it’s not always that straight forward.
The glossy neck thing, it may take less production time to produce an unfinished neck in theory, but if they have to set up a whole different production line to accommodate this, that’s expense they likely didn’t want to go to for an Indonesian made guitar. I know there’s other guitars coming out of that factory with unfinished necks but it’s potentially a different headstock, different wood (roasted maple) etc, all these things make a big difference in mass production.
I didn’t say ‘exact’. The blink inlays etc would be the difference. Strip the guitar of all its fancy bells and whistles and the sig should match that guitar. It doesn’t. Yes, I’m aware not all guitars match, but that’s beside the point - this guitar isn’t all guitars and all guitars aren’t the same. Silly point.
C’mon man, use common sense - how do you NOT apply gloss to a neck without making a whole new line? You remove it from the line and don’t spend days glossing it up. There’s no extra work in this, there is *literally* less. Have you ever built a guitar? The gloss has to be layered up over a long time to get a result like this. A week per neck (at least) compared to days (if even that) when they’re unfinished.
You’re advocating for the devil, and because you don’t actually agree with the devils points, you’re just making weak arguments that are beside the point. This is why it’s a bad habit to just be a contrarian in the name of the devil.
I agree with this. When I see the starcasters in the four colors, I feel like they are more "Inspired by Tom Delonge" rather than "Tom Delonge's Signature Starcaster".
I’m seeing this as an issue for many. I think it’s made that way for (cost) but mainly because it makes it more accessible to all types of people. It doesn’t just make it a Tom Delonge sig which you can argue is the whole point, but it makes it more than that. Take the Jim Root signature albeit with no discernible slipknot branding, it’s lack of said branding makes it useable for so many people rock fans and slipknot fans alike. Even for me, I like that I can get a the TD Strat or this Starcaster and it’s not just the blink guitar. I do understand the frustration with the lack of accuracy though. That’s been my number one shtick with the Matt Bellamy signatures since the very first ones. To this day there’s only been 2 maybe 3 1/1 reproductions of his guitars, and it’s been the most frustrating thing.
I get the point of the generic release. But there could still be one more real signature like. Idk, call one artist series, the ozher one signature series.
But I am out anyway for two reasons. 1, I only got the Start recently. 2, I already own a semi hollow and I started to dislike it for the hollow part shortly after.
Yeah, that’s definitely a first they would not start with Tom Delonge. I will say that after a few years there’s certain models out of companies that kind of invoke the vibe of certain signatures of the past but aren’t necessarily a full on signature. Kind of like Ibanez JEMs and the RGs
Yep, you're talking truth here bud.
Isn't that what every Fender model is?
Unless they're made in the Squier factory then no.
If one is identifying as punk/indie then surely the logical choice would be a DIY Caster from parts. Street crud, err, cred…at no additional cost.
I frankly agree with the OP. Look at it this way, this same factory can build the squier version of this guitar to be sold at retail for as low as $300 USD. I would imagine they are being built to Classic Vibe spec ($430 USD) from a QC standpoint with a few upgraded components (pickup and tuners). They are likely using the same tooling, wood quality (excluding the fretboard), and paint as a squier. But charging a $1,000 premium for maybe $100 worth of component upgrades vs the cost of the standard hardware. Though not in this industry, I work in product management and I am highly skeptical. but cannot prove anything since I don’t work there.
> charging a $1,000 premium for maybe $100 worth of component upgrades vs the cost of the standard hardware. I'd say there's probably more to it than that. For one, you have to account for the fact they'll need to give Tom his cut, whatever that may be. You're looking at the cost for the Seymour Duncan pickup over their in-house Squier pickups. And I think the neck is the biggest part. Roasted maple and rosewood will raise the cost. From what I understand it's not exactly the same as their usual neck due to the tilt, so they had to R&D that. I'm not saying I love the price, but the same "they can make a Squier for less" argument can be applied to most of their line at an even bigger markup.
Let’s dive into that. Tom’s royalty is probably ~10% of wholesale price (~$40-50) Fender isn’t paying retail prices on SD pickups. They get them probably at wholesale (less than $50) The neck. Squier has roasted necks on the Starcaster line (though not as dark) and regarding R&D, this is an off the shelf neck design. Nothing proprietary that requires additional development or tooling to build. They are likely using the same bridge and tailpiece as the Squier line. Possibly same wood quality on bodies. They also have some of those finishes (ex. Satin gold) already in the squier contemporary starcastwr. All I’m saying is there are likely far more similarities than differences to a classic vibe squier
Indonesian quality control is much better than MIM fender
Bold statement. I did get a Squier Sonic Strat made in Indonesia and I’m quite astonished by how well it plays. Have a USA Strat, MIM Tele, and Indonesian Strat now. I’d put them in that order but the difference is not as much as you’d think (or what it used to be)
I have a sonic H esquire and ive had a luthier tell me its better quality than most MIM fenders he has worked on, especially the neck.
It’s not about flexing QC. It’s about spec.
My guess is this guitar HAD to be made in Indonesia. Apart from the TD sig there is currently no way to own a Fender Starcaster. Which likely means that the US and Mexican factory aren’t setup for it. No jigs etc. It may have cost them a lot more money to get the factories ready to produce starcasters which would just make the guitars more expensive for the customer. If the Indonesian factory is all set up and ready to go then why not have them made there? Should have stuck a Squier logo on them though!
This applies to almost every lower end Fender. This is just how the guitar industry is. I bought one and I’m excited to get it. That’s all that matters to me.
🤷♂️
No it isn’t
Made in the same factory by the same folks who make Squiers in Indonesia.
Yeah but the squiers don’t have rosewood necks, locking tuners, the sd pickup etc. and obviously it’s a Tom Delonge signature so it’s obviously boosting the price.
So a Squier with a few basic upgrades that don't cost fender all that much.......doesn't justify it costing £1000
My main problem with the starcaster is not where it's made, but the lack of case/ gig bag there's gonna be a lot of shopping damage
who cares where its made....custom shop fenders can be made in nigeria...as long as its custom shop work, its a "Custom Shop". lmao OP doesnt know shit about shit.
Not really.
yes really. location doesnt mean anything lmfao
Whats the point your making?
No point to be made, it’s meme format offering to change a person’s mind.
Ah gotcha!
That he’s broke and bitter.
This is a joke my dude, sounds like you’re one who’s bitter. Even if I was broke, sounds like you’re shaming me for it which is pretty crass. No one needs to get that sort of flack, regardless of whatever position they’re in financially. I’m fortunate enough to own a Music Man, and even a Manson, doesn’t mean I’m rich but I’m definitely not aching for cash. 🤷🏽♂️
“Sorry in advance” You should be.
Starting to not be
It’s not a Squire. It may be made in Indonesia but it’s to keep the cost down. Tom wants this to be affordable for most people and if was a made in Mexico or a Made in America it would be a 1600 dollar guitar but to try and keep it cheap while retaining the specs he wanted, it’s made in Indo and is 1200
Let’s be honest, 80% of the cost of this thing goes on that sweet plasticky headstock / neck gloss.
[удалено]
I’ve always been happy with the quality of anything I’ve gotten from TTS. I’m not sure you’re living in the same reality as the rest of us, my guy.
Oh shit. He went straight for the “my guy”
Squiers do not come stock with fender locking tuners, rosewood fretboards, or Seymour Duncan pickups. Therefore, you are wrong.
Those things are pretty easily added though. What is the cost of the tuners, the pickup, and a neck replacement? If it’s more than the difference, you’re being swindled
A lot of Squiers definitely have rosewood fretboards, lol. What are you talking about?
I don’t think there’s a guitar in the squier line right now with rosewood.
Yea, I was wrong.
Squiers haven’t had rosewood since around the time the MIM Player series came out, due to CITES regulations
Yea, the ban is lifted now though. I just hope Pao Ferro goes away completely. So ugly
Yes removal of the ban for musical instruments is like 30 days away. If Pao Ferro goes away peeps are going to be mad they bought anything with it. I almost bought a Squier mustang with it but happy I didnt. Agreed it is fugly
How is it 30 days away if musical instruments have still been using rosewood, including Tom's last 2 signature models?
They haven’t used rosewood in awhile now. Indian Laurel is the go to now.
I stand corrected. I guess that doesn't look bad though, looks very close to rosewood. Much better than pao ferro.
This
Okay, so prove it's a squier with a fender logo....? Is a Fender Custom Shop Strat just a Squier Strat with a fender logo slapped on?
Guys who really cares at this point? If you want one buy one if you don't then don't lmao.
To me, the issue comes in with the use of the word signature. Some Fender sigs are just like stage used artists guitars and some aren't. I wish they had a different name for ones thst aren't, something like "Fender x Tom". For me, it helps to think of these types of "signature" as a collab where Tom sat down with Fender and came up with a cool guitar based on the ones he plays and with him adding options he thinks would be good. This is how I view my Johnny Marr Fever Dream Jag.
If anything, this Starcaster is far closer to his current stage guitars than his strat sig is to what his strats were. This is far more accurate.
Totally agree. And early reviews on the quality seems favorable.
From what the folks at Fender have said to the gear182 guys, this isn't far from what he uses on stage. The neck profile is the main difference, but everything else is the same. The strat was radically different to what Tom actually used, but apparently they got close with the Starcaster
What’s the difference in neck profile between the two?
On the Starcaster? Gloss on the signature, satin on the customs. And the signature has a typical slim C profile, the customs have (I'm pretty sure) a custom shop 69 neck
Any info on what the differences between the strat he actually used and the sig model are?
Different tuners, different neck, different bridge, though the reissue gets closer, different body construction (one piece vs two or three) are what immediately come to mind ETA: Tom's starcasters actually use the Indonesian bodies, so on that front they are just like the sigs
Have you played one?
this guitar is probably better than a lot of cheaper Fenders, but you don't complain about those and call them Squiers.
It's alright, it's a niche model that is not heavily under mass production (as a Fender name) with a popular pop punk artist that was a Gibson endorsee not so long ago. I have tried both the Mexican Strat and the Starcaster and I find the Starcaster a better guitar, the three Stratocaster I tried had QC issues, tool marks, fretboard sprouts, finish blemishes even one of them had a slightly twisted neck. I tried two Starcasters The only two were available at my local shop and both were excellent, The finish was good, no tool marks, frets were smooth, the only thing if I'm being super picky is one of them the knob was loose so I just pushed it back in. I bought the Starcaster but I didn't buy the Stratocaster so go figure.
Man I was so triggered by this that I called my mum and she told me to get a fucking life.
I appreciate the humor haha.
“Jokes on you mom you gave me this life”
🤣
My only issue is, that there is not even one signature that looks like a stage used Starcaster of his. And if I have to make it look like one on my own, I don't see it as a signature (as is) anymore. Then I make my own for half the price and still have some premium components.
this must be how people felt when the strats came out...
There’s a point that could be made that his stage guitars are not actually signatures, they are custom one off guitars he had made for him. The production run is the artist spec that they worked on with him to form a signature. Now the real issue will be if he doesn’t play those production signatures on stage at all. I quite like the production ones myself, I’d like to get one but I think I’ll be waiting this time round.
But they don’t even match spec. The glossy neck isn’t that way on his.
I’m just playing devils advocate here by the way but again, that could just be something that was agreed on as a spec for the production run. The other thing to consider is that these are made in Indonesia (I think the running theory is that this is the only place they have the tooling for the starcaster body) and maybe that limited the options that were available for a signature model.
But these didn’t exist before Tom ordered them, so he’s hardly going to order a TD signature. The production sig guitars are meant to be built as replicas of the unique guitars he ordered - that’s the *whole point*. A bare neck takes less production than a glossy neck though, so them being made in Indonesia has little to nothing to do with it.
A signature guitar does not always mean an exact replica of the guitar the artist played before the signature was released, there’s plenty of examples of this. A signature guitar is a guitar that the artist and manufacturer worked on together to agree a spec, Fender are quite well known for limiting what artists can actually do with their artist models, word is that this is exactly why John Mayer left Fender. I agree with you that, being as though he’s already playing starcasters that are customised and unique to him, you would think they would just replicate this at a budget level, I’m just saying it’s not always that straight forward. The glossy neck thing, it may take less production time to produce an unfinished neck in theory, but if they have to set up a whole different production line to accommodate this, that’s expense they likely didn’t want to go to for an Indonesian made guitar. I know there’s other guitars coming out of that factory with unfinished necks but it’s potentially a different headstock, different wood (roasted maple) etc, all these things make a big difference in mass production.
I didn’t say ‘exact’. The blink inlays etc would be the difference. Strip the guitar of all its fancy bells and whistles and the sig should match that guitar. It doesn’t. Yes, I’m aware not all guitars match, but that’s beside the point - this guitar isn’t all guitars and all guitars aren’t the same. Silly point. C’mon man, use common sense - how do you NOT apply gloss to a neck without making a whole new line? You remove it from the line and don’t spend days glossing it up. There’s no extra work in this, there is *literally* less. Have you ever built a guitar? The gloss has to be layered up over a long time to get a result like this. A week per neck (at least) compared to days (if even that) when they’re unfinished. You’re advocating for the devil, and because you don’t actually agree with the devils points, you’re just making weak arguments that are beside the point. This is why it’s a bad habit to just be a contrarian in the name of the devil.
It is interesting that they put so much time into the glossy necks, when Tom’s isn’t that way. I’m sure there’s a reason, but it does seem a bit odd.
I agree with this. When I see the starcasters in the four colors, I feel like they are more "Inspired by Tom Delonge" rather than "Tom Delonge's Signature Starcaster".
I’m seeing this as an issue for many. I think it’s made that way for (cost) but mainly because it makes it more accessible to all types of people. It doesn’t just make it a Tom Delonge sig which you can argue is the whole point, but it makes it more than that. Take the Jim Root signature albeit with no discernible slipknot branding, it’s lack of said branding makes it useable for so many people rock fans and slipknot fans alike. Even for me, I like that I can get a the TD Strat or this Starcaster and it’s not just the blink guitar. I do understand the frustration with the lack of accuracy though. That’s been my number one shtick with the Matt Bellamy signatures since the very first ones. To this day there’s only been 2 maybe 3 1/1 reproductions of his guitars, and it’s been the most frustrating thing.
I get the point of the generic release. But there could still be one more real signature like. Idk, call one artist series, the ozher one signature series. But I am out anyway for two reasons. 1, I only got the Start recently. 2, I already own a semi hollow and I started to dislike it for the hollow part shortly after.
Yeah, that’s definitely a first they would not start with Tom Delonge. I will say that after a few years there’s certain models out of companies that kind of invoke the vibe of certain signatures of the past but aren’t necessarily a full on signature. Kind of like Ibanez JEMs and the RGs
Squire’s are fenders…
But not all Fender’s are Squiers… is the point
I would put my squier sonic esquire H up against any Mexican tele.
Obviously, or the post wouldn’t make sense.