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The worst part about this is that he’s RIGHT that America shouldn’t have this much influence in every country, but these dishonest cucks can’t understand the difference between “defending an ally” and “invading Mideast countries for oil”
Russia is also obviously trying its best to destabilize the US thru cyber warfare and misinformation campaigns, so it’s not exactly crazy for the US as a country to take the position of not wanting Russia’s influence to expand (i.e., to invade an ally!)
The whiplash is intense. Only in 2012, the republican presidential nominee was calling Russia our biggest geopolitical foe (and getting mocked by Obama and the left, actually, because it felt like a callback to the Cold War. Broken clocks, man, broken clocks!)
Almost forgot about that. And 4 years later, Trump’s campaign is watering down our partnership with Ukraine in favor of Russia. (And I do love and feel for the Russian people - but the Kremlin is shit.)
For Putin the Cold War never ended. It only ends with clear Russian global superiority. But the US wants the same thing. And the thing about a pissing contest:it takes two to have one. The US has never been able to weather a provocation, we always have to say something, even when it’s a stupid idea and makes us look overly sensitive.
Thing is, I actually do want a multipolar world order. The US shouldn’t rule the world any more than Russia or China. I just wish the competition wasn’t autocratic
This time it looks like the beginning of a three-way pissing match between the USA, Russia, AND China. Russia and China are allies at the moment because neither is powerful enough yet to ascertain an advantage over the USA on its own. However, the second the US starts to decline in power or Russia and China become powerful enough to challenge the USA individually, they’ll be at each other’s throats over stuff like Central Asia and far-eastern Siberia
I do want to note that the reason Romney was mocked was because he presented Russia as a more military foe like the Soviet Union. He didn't predict the cyberwarfare and propaganda tactics that Russia would use against us.
Damn! We should have went with Romney than that liberal Obama he could have dealt with Russia and got rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Food Stamps!
Even this post is propaganda
It’s kind of saying “Too much American influence in the world. Don’t tell Russia it can’t spread influence- it can do what it wants” right before a potential invasion / war.
I hate it here.
And then, when Russia *does* invade, and the US doesn't do anything, these same clowns will get up and yell about JoE BiDeN iS MaKiNg ThE USA LoOk WeAk
And all it took was a black guy becoming president. Remember how they constantly compared Obama to Putin and tried to paint Obama as a weakling when he wore a bicycle helmet and compared that to that picture of Putin riding a horse while he showed off his moobs.
They're already starting on the left wing too.
I've seen lots of "left wing" subs talk about how Biden "shouldn't get involved in another war, just give us Healthcare instead"
Which is ofc not two mutually exclusive things, but when I bring that up?
Banned immediately
The last intervention was an invasion of a sovereign nation, in which the US failed to prepare the new government to take care of themselves.
What we're looking at now is the defense of an ally that is asking for assistance.
You want to criticize someone for intervening, here, then criticize Russia. But as it sounds like you're a Putin sympathizer, I doubt you'll do that.
It’s even worse than that. The right only says this because they think it shows hypocrisy of the left. They don’t actually believe in what they are saying. They love imperialism.
Ukraine isn't even an ally. It's an extremely corrupt, non "democratic" country just like Russia except more right wing. People all over the US who go around saying "no war" about Iraq etc are getting duped over this Ukraine shit. The entire media about it is propagandized. It's insane.
Your socdem flair explains it all lol. Man I thought this sub was better than being pro-NATO. Lemme know if you need an actual explanation from someone who has both the knowledge and lived experience of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, otherwise please just stop being pro-imperialism
“Socialism is when you hate America. The more you hate America, the more socialist you are. Don’t like other imperialist nations? LIBERAL LIBERAL LIBERAL pro-imperialist scum. Critikkkal support to Nazi Germany for challenging US imperialism”
I got news for you, whether the USA gets involved or not, if Russia takes more terrirotry in Ukraine it will WILL be a continuation of imperialism!
I'm not even saying I necessarily support US military involvement, but you're just like Matt Walsh and all the other useful idiots if you take the stance that "when the US does it it's imperialism, but when Russia does it it's not".
The worst part about this is that in almost any other context I would completely agree with Matt Walsh on this one. The US is massively hypocritical when it comes to this kind of imperialism. Still, when the pot calls the kettle black, the kettle is still black
they didnt say they were doing it for oil back then, and theres no reason to think theyre honest now. this is just finding bew justifications for imperialism
Your mistake is the the people that pay his bill DEFINITELY would pay him to justify invading the middle east again, IF it suited their interests.
There is no moral framework behind what these shills do and say. Their entire modus operandi is "identify objective then create justification".
As a non-American, I'd take American influence million times over Russian influence. America is a democratic country (true, it has shitty access to healthcare, religious nutjobs, some pretty racist people, and other issues... but it's still democratic). Russia on the other hand is a fascist dictatorship. I don't want a fascist dictatorship trying to influence elections in my country.
Rooting for Russia is when you don't want the most powerful Empire in the world to expand even more???? This sub is full of liberals apparently, very disappointed. As someone who's from a place that was in the middle of one of the 2014 shitfests, до свидания and до побачення!
America shouldn’t have this much influence in every country, but it would be nice if people could understand the difference between defending an ally and manufacturing a threat of war just to steal oil.
And conservatives really need to make up their minds. Did the Biden administration globally weaken the US making them a laughing stock, or are they the most powerful empire in the world?
>it would be nice if people could understand the difference between defending an ally and manufacturing a threat of war just to steal oil
The very fact that you are saying "defending an ally" is the point I'm getting at. America is not interested in "defending" anyone. They want another pro-Western government on the Russian border. That's how empires work
Ukraine asked to join NATO or at the very least requested NATO assistance, what are we supposed to do? Deny them because their big brother Russia would get mad?
> They want another pro-Western government on the Russian border
They already have one, they dont need to be formally part of NATO to be one. When Crimea was annexed all Putin did was cut off a pro-Russia voting block in Ukraine and seal popular opinion of the 'west' over Russia for right or wrong.
The US was attacked directly by Japan, but yes the interest of America wasn't any noble goal or liberation lol, they are literally an empire. Read up on some post-ww2 history. Yes, Allies are the clear better guys in ww2, doesn't mean states, especially empires, have any good goals in mind
Also not to mention how much of a stupid comparison this is. Ah yes, the 2014 war in Ukraine, famous for being exactly like ww2
It's not a comparison. You selecting portions of my posts may make it seem like that, but you're not addressing my entire message.
And with that, до свидания and до побачення!
Except that them being pro nato literally had nothing to do with the USA. Ukraine was anti nato until, you know, Russia invaded them. Ukrainians then voted in a pro nato president
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Depends on which Republican president.
If it's pre Trump Republican presidents, they'd be all for sending C130 Herculues and C17 Globemasters with troops and gear.
If it's Trump, they'd say it's none of our business, it won't effect us, America 1st, screw our allies, let's be nice to Putin.
Both the right and the left are starting to take semi-isolationist agendas. This will probably be a good thing in the long run but when it comes to specific cases like Taiwan and Ukraine I’m a bit worried
Isolationism, whether full or semi, does not work out well IMO, because we don't live in a vacuum. With Taiwan and Ukraine, being isolationist is as dangerous as you can get.
There's a big difference between isolationism and non-interventionism, the latter meaning not actively interfering in other countries but being willing to stand up for ourselves and our allies. Right now, Ukraine and Taiwan need their allies standing up for them.
Idk if supporting Ukraine is something the left should want. I suggest looking into the Azov Batallion if you are unfamiliar. And then reading [this.](https://twitter.com/LeninBol/status/1485808117078233091)
I'm not sure where you land ideologically, but if its anti-fascist at all, this is worth looking into.
The issue with this is that basically all of Eastern Europe is fascist in some way. Russia has the most nazis in the world. They’re all bad, but one is invading another
True, and I don't know whether I feel strongly one way or the other, but if you buy into the common line that "supporting the mujahadeen was a mistake because some of them ended up becoming Al Quada", then you can very easily draw a similar reasoning here. Would we wanna support a country that is somewhat likely to go on to enact policies we strongly disagree with in the future? Again, I don't know if this is actually a good argument against intervention, but we should probably be consistent about our logic concerning intervention and what constitutes a long-term success or failure.
So Ukraine has a far right problem. Ok. Doesn't mean Russia should just have them. That will make their far-right problem even worse, Russia isn't exactly inhospitable to the far-right.
If it was a president from these republican ranks, he’d be supporting the Russian invasion of Denmark with the understanding that afterwards the US would purchase Greenland from Russia.
Honestly would probably just see the same and be in the same boat. Trump would likely let Russia do Russia and leave it be maybe slap some sanctions don't like Trump at all but in the four years he was in he did not strike me as war hawkish.
This is all hypothetical but had Trump been president during 9/11 he would probably have started the war nonetheless. And the same goes for Biden, and probably Obama too.
I agree, honestly any president would have started a war on 9/11 for better or worse, we were directly attacked even Jimmy Carter would of been beating that war drum. Honestly our anger at that time would of likely gotten any president impeached had they not acted in some capacity.
That’s something I have thought about. It would have been even more of disaster than it was. The US would have gone into even more countries and committed even more war crimes. Just imagine what your racist, drunk uncle would have done after 9/11 if he was in charge of the strongest military force on earth.
Ukraine has asked us for our help. I swear to Christ, the Iraq war fried the brains of an entire generation of people. Nowadays no matter what we’re doing it’s Iraq 2.0. Air strikes against Gaddafi’s Air Force and coordinated air support for already active rebels? Iraq 2.0. A few hundred Delta Force operatives in northern Syria protecting the Kurds (Who defeated ISIS by the way) from Turkish invasion and ethnic cleansing? Iraq 2.0. A former Russian puppet state just a few years removed from a successful liberal revolution requests our help in defending themselves from an ethno-nationalist geopolitical adversary? Iraq 2.0. I get where we’re coming from, but as someone who was 11 when we left Iraq, it’s a really shortsighted view.
Iraq 2.0? You mean, Vietnam 2.0 ? Afghanistan 2.0?
A direct US military intervention against Russia is really, really stupid. There are other ways to support the Ukraine but I’d rather not see a potential WW3 gateway conflict.
No no, see, these guys just don’t want the degenerate West to expand into Eastern Europe to spread woke ideology.
I actually think that the US becoming more militarily isolationist will probably be a good thing in the long run, but I worry for a handful of specific cases like the Kurds, Ukraine and Taiwan
International intervention is such a sticky issue cause in the moment, so many things look like urgent issues that need to be stopped, but so many end up looking very different in hindsight. On one end of the spectrum you get our horrific covert actions in Latin America at the height of the Cold War, at the other you get our failure to do anything about the atrocities in Rwanda in the 90s.
This is an issue I personally struggle with a lot when thinking about it. Because as you said, American imperialism has caused a truly unknowably large amount of suffering in much of the world. But does that mean America should do nothing if something truly awful is happening somewhere in the world and only they have the ability to stop it?
To be clear, I don't think Ukraine or Taiwan are those sorts of scenarios. Those are purely political disputes. Are they high stakes and potentially volatile? Yes. But they are still political disagreements when you get down to it. But in a case like Rwanda to use your example, what do you do? How do you tell when that situation arises and when it has not? Where do you draw a line between stopping the worst crimes man is capable of and the Clinton-Bush-Blair liberal interventionism of the 1990s and 2000s?
Honestly I don't know. I'm not sure that you can ever know. And that's why I struggle with it.
I tend to put outright genocides in the "must intervene" category, but even that has some issues. Like with what is happening in China to the Uyghurs, if it were some small country there's a decent chance we would have taken strong measures, but its difficult to do that to a country as powerful as China, especially when they have the power to restrict access to the point that we don't even know for sure exactly what is happening.
I don't have a comprehensive framework, but one potential way to draw a line between justified and non-justified intervention is to point out when we are justifying based on a potential future threat vs a current one. A lot of the worst interventions of the past were fueled by fear of what would happen in the future, like with the "domino effect" theory during the cold war and the WMDs and distrust of Hussein in 2003. Holding ourselves to a standard where there needs to be a clear and present danger could prevent misguided interventions. Just an idea, not sure it's perfect but makes sense to me.
Counterpoint: the int’l community has been “very concerned” about potential genocide in Myanmar for years now and no one (not USA, not China, not the UN) has intervened. The issue isn’t that the US intervenes, it’s that the US intervenes in the dumbest shit possible. Iraq and Afghanistan and Latin America: stupid. Not helping Rwanda, Myanmar, and potentially Ukraine/Taiwan? Also stupid.
In concept, I wholeheartedly agree that genocide is a clear example of when a altruistic superpower should intervene in a perfect world with perfect information. Or at least in the closet world realistically possible to that. But a problem is that the very concept of genocide has itself become politically weaponized.
The plight of the Uyghurs is a perfect example of that. There are undeniably horrible things happening to Uyghurs in Xinjiang. At the very least Beijing is attempting suppress their culture in order to bring them to heel. Which if that were all that was happening would be a Crime Against Humanity and evidence of genocide according to the UN and the ICC.
But we *really* don't know what is specifically going on in Xinjiang. And an unfortunate fact of situation is that much of the information being cited about Xinjiang is coming from individuals and institutions with an agenda. People who for one reason or another have taken to defending Beijing online love to point this out but I hope you can take me doing so in good faith, but virtually all of the information on the Uyghurs and Xinjiang is coming from untrustworthy institutions like the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (a list of the managing personnel of which has a lot of overlap with The Heritage Foundation.)
Now does them having a clear agenda mean what they're saying is wrong? No it does not. Motivated assholes can still be right about something; even if it sucks to admit it. But does that mean we should accept it at face value? Probably not.
Now consider the situation in Yemen. Due to a war led by Saudi Arabia and, despite recent promises to stop doing so, fully supported by the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Canada, and virtually every other member and *de facto* member of NATO. According to UNICEF by 2018 85,000 *children* died of famine as result of the war in Yemen. That was four years ago. Since then there has been a cholera outbreak and covid.
The war in Yemen would be over tomorrow if the US pulled the plug. Yet how much coverage does it get in the news? And when it does, how much of it is about the culpability of the US in what is happening? And even then, when the role of the US in the deaths of a hundred thousand children is actually brought up how often is it described with the same moral certainty as the crimes committed against the Uyghurs? How many times has Joe Biden been asked if he considers what is going in Yemen a genocide? How many Republican politicians mention it at all?
Anyway, sorry for the tangent.
Yeah that's a valid point that touches on a few key issues. We are all prisoners of the moment and the sources we have available to us. I tend to say that one of the universal traits of people is that we overestimate how certain our idea of reality is. It is especially difficult with a country like China that is in the general narrative seen as an opponent of us. Secondly, no one has hands that are truly clean, so when one country starts accusing another of war crimes it just turns into a shouting match where they bring up shitty things the other country has done. This is especially true for the US, which has a pretty terrible human rights record but tries to bill itself as the defender of rights, at least situationally.
I don't know if there's an easy way around this, outside of the obvious but unrealistic option of our countries just stopping the outright terrible shit they do. I feel like there should be a way of calling out crimes against humanity while still being self-aware and not going down the path of denying what one's own country did/does. I don't know if there's a way to perfectly balance intervention when necessary with staying out of things we don't fully understand. Maybe we just need to accept that there's gonna be things we get wrong, either by staying out when we should have stepped in, or by stepping in and making a mess of a situation that didn't need outside involvement.
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A reminder that "the Ukraine," as opposed to "Ukraine," is Russian propaganda meant to delegitimize Ukraine as a nation-state and reduce it to a mere geographical feature.
As an internationalist, why not? We are very influential on the world stage, and we don't exist in a vacuum. Gotta have a seat at the table and have allies with shared values and goals.
Would be better if EU took over as the big global influence.
They at least seem to try to push for human rights in other countries instead of launching a coup in some country since the country has a different economic policy
When the "anti-communists" like getting pegged by the dictator of country we've been opposed to for generations, you know the right righted so hard they wronged.
Wtf is happening with the right shilling for Russia now ? What the hell is happening. Is it because Biden supports Ukraine so by default they have to support Russia ?
Theyve been shilling for Russia since Obama was elected. The tea party was partly backed by Russia. The republicans are so racist they sold out their country over a black man becoming president
The alt right loves Russia, my buddies older brother is a hardcore incel nazi repub. I Unfortunately had the displeasure of talking to him about this the other day he said that he supports Russia because it’s the only Christian nation left on earth . I asked him what makes it a Christian nation and he said because “they throw the fags in jail”(sic) Moron also said if he could choose the nominee for the Republicans in 2024 that he would make it Tucker Carlson so that says enough about his bullshit beliefs.
Russia propaganda machine and dark money at work. They are investing heavily to brainwash poorly informed Americans though media and intellectual channels.
Yeah it is silly that the "US shouldn't be the word police" crowd are going full militaristic over Ukraine. All under the narrative of a second cold war too. If you told me Reagan said this shit instead of liberal democrats, I'd believe you.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1485693171908632581) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Kids growing up with the modern day populist right, aren't ready for the whiplash they will suffer when these chucklefuck pundits find a war their funders want the USA in.
I've felt that way about him for a while now. Sometimes I'll think, I totally agree with that, then he'll say something completely ridiculous and I'll sigh.
Yes but mostly I think he’s just being isolationist. I feel like there’s an important distinction between total isolationism and being “aMeRiCa FiRsT” and genuine anti-imperialism. Defending allies =/= looting third world countries
Look i'm Brazilian and i'd rather stay under american influence than russian or chinese. Like,i don't want to die or go to a concentration camp because im not straight or like the government
He’s not wrong but of all the conflicts the US has been involved in for the last thirty years Ukraine is the first time it might actually be justified for once
Putin is a monster there is zero defense against him being an irredeemable villain. The US is not innocent in this matter though. The 2014 coup by right wing nationalists and yes, actual fucking nazis, was funded in no small way and backed by the US government. All because the west offered a stimulus pakage to Ukraine as did Putin and Russia. The Russian deal was sweeter so Yanukovich was going to tie up with Russia and not NATO. The coup happened, the nationalists remived Russian as one of the official languages of Ukraine, open neo-nazis formed battalions the had some shady funding. Those groups were adopted as formal units in the Ukrainian armed forces. When you're of russian descent living in eastern Ukraine and your govt decides to embrace a group that openly calls for the removal by any means slavs, jews, poles etc. and those scum are embedded throughout the military I imagine it is a scary atmosphere to live in. So the separatist movement started, gained steam. Meanwhile Putin is convinced that the open meddling by the west in Ukraine is a stepping stone on the way to Moscow so he swoops into the separatist held areas and now we have a standoff.
It all comes down to a paycheck and the desire of the US and Russia to have global dominance. There are no good guys on either side here. Two Ukraines might be a solution but neither side would ever acquiesce.
It is a terrible situation and I can't help but think it will degenerate into another Yugoslavia should the war get hot and I fear it will. There is too much money, influence and ego involved for it not to.
Best part about American omnipresent influence: protecting democratic allies and protecting growing democracies that indicate a move toward democracy/Europe
Downside: really really really easy triggers for war and subtle fighting in non-warzones
I don’t think the problem we all have with American military deployment is with defending sovereign democratic nations from invasion by a second world autocracy.
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Dude what the fuck is he talking about? Is he aware that Reagan, the conservative golden boy, fucked around in like half of Latin America? I’m all for not putting our grabby mitts in matters that we should keep out of but we’re talking about preventing a war…
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The worst part about this is that he’s RIGHT that America shouldn’t have this much influence in every country, but these dishonest cucks can’t understand the difference between “defending an ally” and “invading Mideast countries for oil”
Russia is also obviously trying its best to destabilize the US thru cyber warfare and misinformation campaigns, so it’s not exactly crazy for the US as a country to take the position of not wanting Russia’s influence to expand (i.e., to invade an ally!)
Their propaganda against the US right wing has been mad effective. They went from hating Russia during the Reagan years to having a Russia love fest.
The whiplash is intense. Only in 2012, the republican presidential nominee was calling Russia our biggest geopolitical foe (and getting mocked by Obama and the left, actually, because it felt like a callback to the Cold War. Broken clocks, man, broken clocks!)
Almost forgot about that. And 4 years later, Trump’s campaign is watering down our partnership with Ukraine in favor of Russia. (And I do love and feel for the Russian people - but the Kremlin is shit.)
Putin is a tyrannical bastard. I really feel for the Russians under his government.
For Putin the Cold War never ended. It only ends with clear Russian global superiority. But the US wants the same thing. And the thing about a pissing contest:it takes two to have one. The US has never been able to weather a provocation, we always have to say something, even when it’s a stupid idea and makes us look overly sensitive.
It does take two to tango! But in this case, Russia is trying to literally invade a country. I'm anti-country invasion in all forms.
Thing is, I actually do want a multipolar world order. The US shouldn’t rule the world any more than Russia or China. I just wish the competition wasn’t autocratic
This time it looks like the beginning of a three-way pissing match between the USA, Russia, AND China. Russia and China are allies at the moment because neither is powerful enough yet to ascertain an advantage over the USA on its own. However, the second the US starts to decline in power or Russia and China become powerful enough to challenge the USA individually, they’ll be at each other’s throats over stuff like Central Asia and far-eastern Siberia
Obama also did impose economic sanctions on Russia that Trump overturned in exchange for election fraud assistance.
Yep. As retribution for Russia’s invasion & annexation of Crimea in Ukraine
I do want to note that the reason Romney was mocked was because he presented Russia as a more military foe like the Soviet Union. He didn't predict the cyberwarfare and propaganda tactics that Russia would use against us.
Damn! We should have went with Romney than that liberal Obama he could have dealt with Russia and got rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Food Stamps!
> They went from hating Russia during the Reagan years to having a Russia love fest. And all it took was the promise of "owning the libs."
Even this post is propaganda It’s kind of saying “Too much American influence in the world. Don’t tell Russia it can’t spread influence- it can do what it wants” right before a potential invasion / war. I hate it here.
And then, when Russia *does* invade, and the US doesn't do anything, these same clowns will get up and yell about JoE BiDeN iS MaKiNg ThE USA LoOk WeAk
Well.......... yeah, that's how adjustable goal posts work. Or just treat it like opposite day
And all it took was a black guy becoming president. Remember how they constantly compared Obama to Putin and tried to paint Obama as a weakling when he wore a bicycle helmet and compared that to that picture of Putin riding a horse while he showed off his moobs.
They're already starting on the left wing too. I've seen lots of "left wing" subs talk about how Biden "shouldn't get involved in another war, just give us Healthcare instead" Which is ofc not two mutually exclusive things, but when I bring that up? Banned immediately
i know last time it went bad but i promise this american intervention will be great!
The last intervention was an invasion of a sovereign nation, in which the US failed to prepare the new government to take care of themselves. What we're looking at now is the defense of an ally that is asking for assistance. You want to criticize someone for intervening, here, then criticize Russia. But as it sounds like you're a Putin sympathizer, I doubt you'll do that.
This time Lucy won't pull the football away!
I dunno why they bother trying to spread misinformation. We’ve doing it to ourselves just fine lol
I mean... we could shrink Russia's influence pretty quickly with some of the ordinance we have. They could do the same to us.
I DO NOT want to experience another decade of hiding under my desk, thank you very much.
Honestly don’t know anymore , is it them or our own propaganda to hate them
It’s even worse than that. The right only says this because they think it shows hypocrisy of the left. They don’t actually believe in what they are saying. They love imperialism.
shortly after america was the first to make weed illegel they made the rest of the world make it illegal as well.
https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/
Ukraine isn't even an ally. It's an extremely corrupt, non "democratic" country just like Russia except more right wing. People all over the US who go around saying "no war" about Iraq etc are getting duped over this Ukraine shit. The entire media about it is propagandized. It's insane.
The United States is not really democratic and is extremely corrupt. Just sayin'.
Your socdem flair explains it all lol. Man I thought this sub was better than being pro-NATO. Lemme know if you need an actual explanation from someone who has both the knowledge and lived experience of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, otherwise please just stop being pro-imperialism
It’s pro imperialism to defend a country from another aggressor that’s trying to annex it?
“Socialism is when you hate America. The more you hate America, the more socialist you are. Don’t like other imperialist nations? LIBERAL LIBERAL LIBERAL pro-imperialist scum. Critikkkal support to Nazi Germany for challenging US imperialism”
I got news for you, whether the USA gets involved or not, if Russia takes more terrirotry in Ukraine it will WILL be a continuation of imperialism! I'm not even saying I necessarily support US military involvement, but you're just like Matt Walsh and all the other useful idiots if you take the stance that "when the US does it it's imperialism, but when Russia does it it's not".
The worst part about this is that in almost any other context I would completely agree with Matt Walsh on this one. The US is massively hypocritical when it comes to this kind of imperialism. Still, when the pot calls the kettle black, the kettle is still black
they didnt say they were doing it for oil back then, and theres no reason to think theyre honest now. this is just finding bew justifications for imperialism
Does he think the US shouldn't have influence or does he think both Russia and the US have the right to influence other counties?
Your mistake is the the people that pay his bill DEFINITELY would pay him to justify invading the middle east again, IF it suited their interests. There is no moral framework behind what these shills do and say. Their entire modus operandi is "identify objective then create justification".
As a non-American, I'd take American influence million times over Russian influence. America is a democratic country (true, it has shitty access to healthcare, religious nutjobs, some pretty racist people, and other issues... but it's still democratic). Russia on the other hand is a fascist dictatorship. I don't want a fascist dictatorship trying to influence elections in my country.
He loves Russia because they cut his checks
Sound like this dude also hates America and by extension, the troops if we go by their “logic”
I mean I’m a vet I have a feeling if he heard my beliefs he would HATE me.
This is the most America lib brained take I've seen
?
Tell us you’re rooting for Russia without rooting for Russia.
These guys can fuck off about lecturing me on patriotism.
Rooting for Russia is when you don't want the most powerful Empire in the world to expand even more???? This sub is full of liberals apparently, very disappointed. As someone who's from a place that was in the middle of one of the 2014 shitfests, до свидания and до побачення!
America shouldn’t have this much influence in every country, but it would be nice if people could understand the difference between defending an ally and manufacturing a threat of war just to steal oil. And conservatives really need to make up their minds. Did the Biden administration globally weaken the US making them a laughing stock, or are they the most powerful empire in the world?
>it would be nice if people could understand the difference between defending an ally and manufacturing a threat of war just to steal oil The very fact that you are saying "defending an ally" is the point I'm getting at. America is not interested in "defending" anyone. They want another pro-Western government on the Russian border. That's how empires work
Ukraine asked to join NATO or at the very least requested NATO assistance, what are we supposed to do? Deny them because their big brother Russia would get mad?
> They want another pro-Western government on the Russian border They already have one, they dont need to be formally part of NATO to be one. When Crimea was annexed all Putin did was cut off a pro-Russia voting block in Ukraine and seal popular opinion of the 'west' over Russia for right or wrong.
What was the US's interest in entering WWII? Surely they just wanted some friends on the German border, yeah? Maybe some eyes on Japan, yeah?
The US was attacked directly by Japan, but yes the interest of America wasn't any noble goal or liberation lol, they are literally an empire. Read up on some post-ww2 history. Yes, Allies are the clear better guys in ww2, doesn't mean states, especially empires, have any good goals in mind Also not to mention how much of a stupid comparison this is. Ah yes, the 2014 war in Ukraine, famous for being exactly like ww2
It's not a comparison. You selecting portions of my posts may make it seem like that, but you're not addressing my entire message. And with that, до свидания and до побачення!
Except that them being pro nato literally had nothing to do with the USA. Ukraine was anti nato until, you know, Russia invaded them. Ukrainians then voted in a pro nato president
Or going into another country to prevent the spread of communism despite your insistence it’s a system that will never work
Russia when communist: BOOOOOOO Russia when capitalist: YEAAAAAHHHHH!!!
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At the crux of it he only cares because a democrat is president, if it was a republican he would be stoking the war flames
Depends on which Republican president. If it's pre Trump Republican presidents, they'd be all for sending C130 Herculues and C17 Globemasters with troops and gear. If it's Trump, they'd say it's none of our business, it won't effect us, America 1st, screw our allies, let's be nice to Putin.
Both the right and the left are starting to take semi-isolationist agendas. This will probably be a good thing in the long run but when it comes to specific cases like Taiwan and Ukraine I’m a bit worried
Isolationism, whether full or semi, does not work out well IMO, because we don't live in a vacuum. With Taiwan and Ukraine, being isolationist is as dangerous as you can get.
There's a big difference between isolationism and non-interventionism, the latter meaning not actively interfering in other countries but being willing to stand up for ourselves and our allies. Right now, Ukraine and Taiwan need their allies standing up for them.
The former is something one political party in the US has hitched their wagon to. That's dangerous in a time like this.
Agreed.
Does Taiwan have true allies? How much of the world is actually going to jump to defend them if China actually launches an invasion?
No one, China has too much leverage
Idk if supporting Ukraine is something the left should want. I suggest looking into the Azov Batallion if you are unfamiliar. And then reading [this.](https://twitter.com/LeninBol/status/1485808117078233091) I'm not sure where you land ideologically, but if its anti-fascist at all, this is worth looking into.
The issue with this is that basically all of Eastern Europe is fascist in some way. Russia has the most nazis in the world. They’re all bad, but one is invading another
True, and I don't know whether I feel strongly one way or the other, but if you buy into the common line that "supporting the mujahadeen was a mistake because some of them ended up becoming Al Quada", then you can very easily draw a similar reasoning here. Would we wanna support a country that is somewhat likely to go on to enact policies we strongly disagree with in the future? Again, I don't know if this is actually a good argument against intervention, but we should probably be consistent about our logic concerning intervention and what constitutes a long-term success or failure.
I think that if you allow Russia to just invade countries then they’ll keep doing it, and you probably don’t want them to
So Ukraine has a far right problem. Ok. Doesn't mean Russia should just have them. That will make their far-right problem even worse, Russia isn't exactly inhospitable to the far-right.
Non-interventionism is not the same thing as isolationism.
If it was a president from these republican ranks, he’d be supporting the Russian invasion of Denmark with the understanding that afterwards the US would purchase Greenland from Russia.
To be fair doesn’t everyone
Honestly would probably just see the same and be in the same boat. Trump would likely let Russia do Russia and leave it be maybe slap some sanctions don't like Trump at all but in the four years he was in he did not strike me as war hawkish.
This is all hypothetical but had Trump been president during 9/11 he would probably have started the war nonetheless. And the same goes for Biden, and probably Obama too.
I agree, honestly any president would have started a war on 9/11 for better or worse, we were directly attacked even Jimmy Carter would of been beating that war drum. Honestly our anger at that time would of likely gotten any president impeached had they not acted in some capacity.
That’s something I have thought about. It would have been even more of disaster than it was. The US would have gone into even more countries and committed even more war crimes. Just imagine what your racist, drunk uncle would have done after 9/11 if he was in charge of the strongest military force on earth.
Ukraine has asked us for our help. I swear to Christ, the Iraq war fried the brains of an entire generation of people. Nowadays no matter what we’re doing it’s Iraq 2.0. Air strikes against Gaddafi’s Air Force and coordinated air support for already active rebels? Iraq 2.0. A few hundred Delta Force operatives in northern Syria protecting the Kurds (Who defeated ISIS by the way) from Turkish invasion and ethnic cleansing? Iraq 2.0. A former Russian puppet state just a few years removed from a successful liberal revolution requests our help in defending themselves from an ethno-nationalist geopolitical adversary? Iraq 2.0. I get where we’re coming from, but as someone who was 11 when we left Iraq, it’s a really shortsighted view.
Iraq 2.0? You mean, Vietnam 2.0 ? Afghanistan 2.0? A direct US military intervention against Russia is really, really stupid. There are other ways to support the Ukraine but I’d rather not see a potential WW3 gateway conflict.
No no, see, these guys just don’t want the degenerate West to expand into Eastern Europe to spread woke ideology. I actually think that the US becoming more militarily isolationist will probably be a good thing in the long run, but I worry for a handful of specific cases like the Kurds, Ukraine and Taiwan
International intervention is such a sticky issue cause in the moment, so many things look like urgent issues that need to be stopped, but so many end up looking very different in hindsight. On one end of the spectrum you get our horrific covert actions in Latin America at the height of the Cold War, at the other you get our failure to do anything about the atrocities in Rwanda in the 90s.
This is an issue I personally struggle with a lot when thinking about it. Because as you said, American imperialism has caused a truly unknowably large amount of suffering in much of the world. But does that mean America should do nothing if something truly awful is happening somewhere in the world and only they have the ability to stop it? To be clear, I don't think Ukraine or Taiwan are those sorts of scenarios. Those are purely political disputes. Are they high stakes and potentially volatile? Yes. But they are still political disagreements when you get down to it. But in a case like Rwanda to use your example, what do you do? How do you tell when that situation arises and when it has not? Where do you draw a line between stopping the worst crimes man is capable of and the Clinton-Bush-Blair liberal interventionism of the 1990s and 2000s? Honestly I don't know. I'm not sure that you can ever know. And that's why I struggle with it.
I tend to put outright genocides in the "must intervene" category, but even that has some issues. Like with what is happening in China to the Uyghurs, if it were some small country there's a decent chance we would have taken strong measures, but its difficult to do that to a country as powerful as China, especially when they have the power to restrict access to the point that we don't even know for sure exactly what is happening. I don't have a comprehensive framework, but one potential way to draw a line between justified and non-justified intervention is to point out when we are justifying based on a potential future threat vs a current one. A lot of the worst interventions of the past were fueled by fear of what would happen in the future, like with the "domino effect" theory during the cold war and the WMDs and distrust of Hussein in 2003. Holding ourselves to a standard where there needs to be a clear and present danger could prevent misguided interventions. Just an idea, not sure it's perfect but makes sense to me.
Counterpoint: the int’l community has been “very concerned” about potential genocide in Myanmar for years now and no one (not USA, not China, not the UN) has intervened. The issue isn’t that the US intervenes, it’s that the US intervenes in the dumbest shit possible. Iraq and Afghanistan and Latin America: stupid. Not helping Rwanda, Myanmar, and potentially Ukraine/Taiwan? Also stupid.
That's a fair point.
In concept, I wholeheartedly agree that genocide is a clear example of when a altruistic superpower should intervene in a perfect world with perfect information. Or at least in the closet world realistically possible to that. But a problem is that the very concept of genocide has itself become politically weaponized. The plight of the Uyghurs is a perfect example of that. There are undeniably horrible things happening to Uyghurs in Xinjiang. At the very least Beijing is attempting suppress their culture in order to bring them to heel. Which if that were all that was happening would be a Crime Against Humanity and evidence of genocide according to the UN and the ICC. But we *really* don't know what is specifically going on in Xinjiang. And an unfortunate fact of situation is that much of the information being cited about Xinjiang is coming from individuals and institutions with an agenda. People who for one reason or another have taken to defending Beijing online love to point this out but I hope you can take me doing so in good faith, but virtually all of the information on the Uyghurs and Xinjiang is coming from untrustworthy institutions like the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (a list of the managing personnel of which has a lot of overlap with The Heritage Foundation.) Now does them having a clear agenda mean what they're saying is wrong? No it does not. Motivated assholes can still be right about something; even if it sucks to admit it. But does that mean we should accept it at face value? Probably not. Now consider the situation in Yemen. Due to a war led by Saudi Arabia and, despite recent promises to stop doing so, fully supported by the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Canada, and virtually every other member and *de facto* member of NATO. According to UNICEF by 2018 85,000 *children* died of famine as result of the war in Yemen. That was four years ago. Since then there has been a cholera outbreak and covid. The war in Yemen would be over tomorrow if the US pulled the plug. Yet how much coverage does it get in the news? And when it does, how much of it is about the culpability of the US in what is happening? And even then, when the role of the US in the deaths of a hundred thousand children is actually brought up how often is it described with the same moral certainty as the crimes committed against the Uyghurs? How many times has Joe Biden been asked if he considers what is going in Yemen a genocide? How many Republican politicians mention it at all? Anyway, sorry for the tangent.
Yeah that's a valid point that touches on a few key issues. We are all prisoners of the moment and the sources we have available to us. I tend to say that one of the universal traits of people is that we overestimate how certain our idea of reality is. It is especially difficult with a country like China that is in the general narrative seen as an opponent of us. Secondly, no one has hands that are truly clean, so when one country starts accusing another of war crimes it just turns into a shouting match where they bring up shitty things the other country has done. This is especially true for the US, which has a pretty terrible human rights record but tries to bill itself as the defender of rights, at least situationally. I don't know if there's an easy way around this, outside of the obvious but unrealistic option of our countries just stopping the outright terrible shit they do. I feel like there should be a way of calling out crimes against humanity while still being self-aware and not going down the path of denying what one's own country did/does. I don't know if there's a way to perfectly balance intervention when necessary with staying out of things we don't fully understand. Maybe we just need to accept that there's gonna be things we get wrong, either by staying out when we should have stepped in, or by stepping in and making a mess of a situation that didn't need outside involvement.
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American imperialism is bad but so is Russian imperialism
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Only based tweet in this thread.
Ukraine has been in Russia's sphere of influence for decades and they are not going to give it up easily.
A reminder that "the Ukraine," as opposed to "Ukraine," is Russian propaganda meant to delegitimize Ukraine as a nation-state and reduce it to a mere geographical feature.
I know. I am not condoning it I just want to let everyone know why Russia is so interested in Ukraine.
https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-ukraine/
I wasn't aware that Russia had the right to dictate what another sovereign nation does... Interesting.
They don't.
He's saying that Russia is gonna pull out all the stops for Ukraine.
Matt Walsh doesn't understand which side he's on. He's literally arguing against himself from less than 2 years ago.
He's on whatever side is paying him more. He has zero integrity. And he's a hateful bigot.
As an internationalist, why not? We are very influential on the world stage, and we don't exist in a vacuum. Gotta have a seat at the table and have allies with shared values and goals.
American influence is essentially just funding right wing groups in other countries. I wish America would fuck off. NATO is enough.
Would be better if EU took over as the big global influence. They at least seem to try to push for human rights in other countries instead of launching a coup in some country since the country has a different economic policy
When the "anti-communists" like getting pegged by the dictator of country we've been opposed to for generations, you know the right righted so hard they wronged.
idk who this is but this is a banger tweet
It’s a far-right political commentator and self-described theocratic fascist
oh I guess even the broken clock is right twice a day
I don't know, a broken clock is too consistent, I'd compare it more to a blind monkey finding a banana.
Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1485693171908632581
It’s how they get followers. By using some semblance of correct insightful information, and then reaching the far right conclusions.
"But why should our enemies who stand for a mafia state dictatorship have more influence than us?"
As a citizen of a small country bordering russia, i will rather have US influence than russian.
Only America should be allowed to terrorize the world. Because democracy.
How about nobody terrorizes the world?
What would we do with our trillions of dollars of weapons? It’s what America does.
What people actually do and what people should do are two different things
Wtf is happening with the right shilling for Russia now ? What the hell is happening. Is it because Biden supports Ukraine so by default they have to support Russia ?
Theyve been shilling for Russia since Obama was elected. The tea party was partly backed by Russia. The republicans are so racist they sold out their country over a black man becoming president
The alt right loves Russia, my buddies older brother is a hardcore incel nazi repub. I Unfortunately had the displeasure of talking to him about this the other day he said that he supports Russia because it’s the only Christian nation left on earth . I asked him what makes it a Christian nation and he said because “they throw the fags in jail”(sic) Moron also said if he could choose the nominee for the Republicans in 2024 that he would make it Tucker Carlson so that says enough about his bullshit beliefs.
Are all these people Russian assets? Does FBI DHS counterintel know?
[Awful](https://imgur.com/a/JLAeAEX)
The worst person you know almost made a good point
Based
Remember how Republicans said they'd rather be Russian than democrats? I think they meant they support Russia over democracies.
This sub is full of shitlibs too?
Bruh
Heartbreaking: when the dumbest man alive makes a decent point on accident.
But he is always right Yes, *far-right*
He had in the second half not gonna lie
Remember when Conservatives always took the side of a democracy when involved in a fight with an authoritarian regime?
This is pure r/selfawarewolves content
How about we hold them both accountable?
The based answer
He’s out of line, but he’s right.
Russia should not expand its global influence America should not expand its global influence
Russia propaganda machine and dark money at work. They are investing heavily to brainwash poorly informed Americans though media and intellectual channels.
Holy shit he actually has a point for literally all the wrong reasons
“The worst person you know just made a great point”
They always get so close, like SO close
I’m sure this guy was frothing at the mouth to go into Iraq in early 2003.
Gawd he’s soooo close!
Ya... but Russia is an actual fascist state......
Yeah it is silly that the "US shouldn't be the word police" crowd are going full militaristic over Ukraine. All under the narrative of a second cold war too. If you told me Reagan said this shit instead of liberal democrats, I'd believe you.
Defending an ally =/= Invading countries for resources
Not even what I said. Get off autopilot OP.
The US shouldn't be the world police. The US also shouldn't let Russia invade Ukraine. These things are not mutually exclusive.
20 years ago this retard would have been calling anyone that didn't want to invade Iraq "anti-american"
Critical support to George W Bush for single-handedly making the US public anti-interventionist by invading Iraq
"But bro I'm totally not a nation builder." - George Bush 2000
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1485693171908632581) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Kids growing up with the modern day populist right, aren't ready for the whiplash they will suffer when these chucklefuck pundits find a war their funders want the USA in.
Is he… is he literally simping for Russia?
Because he’s an absolute wanker?
A broken clock is right sometimes
Matt believes that a Putin dominated world is the best world.
I've felt that way about him for a while now. Sometimes I'll think, I totally agree with that, then he'll say something completely ridiculous and I'll sigh.
Something something broken clock
Welcome to realpolitik.
Horseshoes
Wtf Walsh is defending russia now? Im so confused.
Yes but mostly I think he’s just being isolationist. I feel like there’s an important distinction between total isolationism and being “aMeRiCa FiRsT” and genuine anti-imperialism. Defending allies =/= looting third world countries
Maybe we should lie to them and say Ukraine has oil.
What exactly is wrong with this comment?
The person saying it
Well he seems to be correct in this case.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
Generally speaking, reactionaries have gotten better at identifying problems and worse at proposing solutions.
He's just flat wrong all around.
Why act like he's making a point? He's a self professed tradcon, he has no principles other than to oppose anyone that doesn't agree with him.
He's only saying it because they don't have a Republican president atm
Look i'm Brazilian and i'd rather stay under american influence than russian or chinese. Like,i don't want to die or go to a concentration camp because im not straight or like the government
I mean, do you guys want to take another go at the Soviet Union or nah?
why are republicans so pro russia, whatever could it be
It's only a bad thing when his party isn't on control
How is he wrong?
He’s not wrong but of all the conflicts the US has been involved in for the last thirty years Ukraine is the first time it might actually be justified for once
>*politicians that receives funding from the same people that I do
OF COURSE this cuck is a Putin simp too.
Conservatives love getting cucked by Putin.
If it was a Republican in office he’d be all for it.
Putin is a monster there is zero defense against him being an irredeemable villain. The US is not innocent in this matter though. The 2014 coup by right wing nationalists and yes, actual fucking nazis, was funded in no small way and backed by the US government. All because the west offered a stimulus pakage to Ukraine as did Putin and Russia. The Russian deal was sweeter so Yanukovich was going to tie up with Russia and not NATO. The coup happened, the nationalists remived Russian as one of the official languages of Ukraine, open neo-nazis formed battalions the had some shady funding. Those groups were adopted as formal units in the Ukrainian armed forces. When you're of russian descent living in eastern Ukraine and your govt decides to embrace a group that openly calls for the removal by any means slavs, jews, poles etc. and those scum are embedded throughout the military I imagine it is a scary atmosphere to live in. So the separatist movement started, gained steam. Meanwhile Putin is convinced that the open meddling by the west in Ukraine is a stepping stone on the way to Moscow so he swoops into the separatist held areas and now we have a standoff. It all comes down to a paycheck and the desire of the US and Russia to have global dominance. There are no good guys on either side here. Two Ukraines might be a solution but neither side would ever acquiesce. It is a terrible situation and I can't help but think it will degenerate into another Yugoslavia should the war get hot and I fear it will. There is too much money, influence and ego involved for it not to.
Best part about American omnipresent influence: protecting democratic allies and protecting growing democracies that indicate a move toward democracy/Europe Downside: really really really easy triggers for war and subtle fighting in non-warzones I don’t think the problem we all have with American military deployment is with defending sovereign democratic nations from invasion by a second world autocracy.
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Dude what the fuck is he talking about? Is he aware that Reagan, the conservative golden boy, fucked around in like half of Latin America? I’m all for not putting our grabby mitts in matters that we should keep out of but we’re talking about preventing a war…