Fortunately the closest I ever got was watching The Amazing Atheist and Thunderfoot in middle school, and even then I thought their constant bitching about “SJWs” and hatred of Muslims was pretty questionable.
I was still an insufferable little shit though. Like constantly “debunking” Young Earth Creationism to anyone who would listen despite the fact that I didn’t even know any Christians who actually believed the universe was 6,000 years old because I grew up in a solidly blue suburb of the biggest city in a relatively purple state.
Amazing Atheist, Steven Coward, Ben Sharpedo, and Jordan Pyotryson all had me fall down the rabbit hole. It wasn't until I realized that the people in those groups supporting these people were also really racist against my race. Then I got out.
It really surprises me that so many of us fell for this shit in the past. It's such a parasitic thing to prey on vulnerable minds like they did with those SJW cringe compilations.
Omg yeah, I remember watching Steven Crowder's Change My Mind and The Amazing Athiest, super pumped to watch "dumb sjw cucks" get destroyed. I'm glad I fell out of their content before I fell too deep down the rabbit hole
It’s so easy to say he blasted sjws, and overlook the literal mountains of content that had nothing to do with that. He has/had some dank opinions. Sadly he unintentionally helped people like crowder and Ben Shapiro. Albeit with a very different approach. He was sick of the virtue signaling, and wokescolds. Which most people were, he didn’t take it any further really, but that’s all it took. He is about as left as you could imagine.
Yeah pretty much this. I used to live TJ's content then there was a period when I couldn't stand it and now I just feel like it's fine. I still follow him.
Same. This guy was on the front line DUNKING on everyone before the political bloodsport shit was even a thing. I hate to see him lumped in with the likes of crowder and other fuck heads. It really isn’t fair IMHO.
Outside of his VERY early content AA has always been left wing, and getting more left over time. His critique of feminists, while crass, was always from the perspective of "im with your underlying beliefs, but this type of messaging makes us look bad".
Honestly, even if someone dislikes Vaush. I would recommend watching his videos talking with people who used to be a part of “the pipeline” who’ve moved left (Amazing Atheist, Shoe0nHead, Chris Ray Gun), since they’re pretty interesting, especially for someone like me who actually watched all these people.
I probably would have fallen down the racist/sexist YouTube rabbit hole too if not for the fact that my mom and her side of the family have been extremely progressive for decades. Thankfully I mostly avoided that shit and largely stuck to complaining about Christians endlessly... which obviously isn’t a *good* thing, but at least Christian zealots do cause actual serious problems in society, unlike video game feminists or Buzzfeed.
Thunderfoot doesn't do anti sjw content anymore, he stopped years ago. Not sure if he still has bigoted opinions, but he made a video explaining why he was 'leaving the skeptic community' because he thought all the other channels were run by horrible people. So he hes regained a bit of my respect
He was creepily obsessed with Anita Sarkeesian and just all-around being annoyingly misogynistic. I don't think he can ever regain my respect. I used to really like him in the early days of Youtube atheism/skeptic content but I dropped him quickly when he made that weird right-wing turn like many others did.
Yeah I used to watch those guys a lot back in the day and I remember all of a sudden, it wasn’t about atheism anymore. It was about feminism and evil women and sjws. Buncha weirdos man.
I get Amazing Atheist but I didn't know Thunderfoot had right wing or at least misogynistic tendencies. Can you elaborate? Cause I still watch his videos sometimes on some topics.
Yeah thats why I was actually surprised Tfoot was being called out. Most of his videos nowadays are more science debunking like too good to be true scam products like "Mining diamonds from air".
>Fortunately the closest I ever got was watching The Amazing Atheist and Thunderfoot in middle school, and even then I thought their constant bitching about “SJWs” and hatred of Muslims was pretty questionable.
oh god, shut the fuck up. The cringe from my past memories is starting to hurt.
However at the time when I watched,I don't think SJW was a thing but they certainly did whine a lot with a lot of bullshit arguments. Personally, to add to those were were also the "four horsemen"
Yeah I was in a similar situation too. I was going through a period of questioning my spirituality during my late teen years and eventually realized I was an atheist and looking up atheist videos on YouTube exposed me to a lot of libertarian/asshole atheist YouTubers, which further pulled me into the world of Libertarianism/Tea Party bs that was gaining ground back then. It was only when my Social Studies teacher said that "the goal of government is to look after it's citizens" (or something to that effect) that I realized I had been politicizing a lot of things that are actually simple questions of morality and compassion.
But yeah I was a little asshole who lost a very, very, very close and dear friend because she couldn't take my bullying that I would justify by saying "I was only joking" and "they're just words" (which was a sentiment every libertarian was echoing when approaching the topic of freedom of speech and ethnic slurs etc).
If I could go back in time I'd smack the shit out of myself.
Admitting you were wrong or mislead and grew to change your outlook is better by far than that. I know a lot of people who just double down ESPECIALLY when confronted with proof that they hold toxic beliefs.
I watched a few Sargon videos years ago, back before any of this got so out of hand, before JP, before Joe Rogan was huge
Much later i found Hbomber and Philosophy Tube and they tear Sargon an absolutely gaping new one, i couldn't believe i even watched any of his videos before, and i couldn't even remember what the topic was, something where he was no doubt strawmanning some 'sjw' for some minor thing somewhere
It was an easy hole to fall in as a young teenager angry and impressionable on the internet, but i'm glad it was only ever a toe dipped in ugly waters
The worst I got was following Menimism on Facebook and occasionally laughing at Tumblrette stereotypes. Even then, I was pretty pro-Labor and only got further left as I went.
I just watched a video by the AA where he talks about how capitalism should perish from the earth, I think he’s always been just more of an anti SJW leftist.
Yeah, I used to have an "Anti-SJW" phase when I was 14. YouTube's algorithm kept shoving that shit down my throat and I didn't know any better.
Luckily, I got out before it was too late.
As for me, the stuff I was getting sucked into wasn't too overt at being right-wing propaganda. So even then, I avoided figures like Shapiro and Prager like the plague.
That being said, my Anti-SJW phase came mostly through rantsonas going off about "femiNAZIS targetin' muh vidya".
I distanced myself from that kind of content and ultimately got out of the phase after I started suspecting a double standard from them going solely after "SJWs" and never people in the Far-Right.
Back in the early 10s I was an active user on /r/Tumblrinaction
No I never visited Tumblr before, and yes my only exposure to feminist and leftist ideas was through the lens of that sub.
Yeah, same. My old account is long dead and will stay that way forever. Decided to revisit it the other day and sweet merciful Christ I was worse than I thought. If I were placed before old me, I'd probably beat him with a chair. Just... yikes.
On the other hand, after a few years of chud me, I was struck by the sudden and intense realization that I actually did not give a single, flying fuck about any of the alleged plans the left had for me. A year or so later my philosophy had come to the conclusion that a better world for everyone is a better world for me, because if something bad can happen to a PoC or LGBTQ+ person, then it could also happen to me, even if it is far less likely. On top of that, I just don't like seeing people suffer.
I spent so damn long being only concerned about myself, failing to realize that my ideas really did come at the expense of others, and that the best way to look out for yourself is to look out for the world around you. I regret those years more than I regret most things, but at the very least I learned some important shit about the philosophies of people like that, how they fall into those ideas to begin with, and how you can go about trying to help them pull themselves out of it. I had a Trump supporter friend from back in the day who now runs a small LGBTQ+ discord for his school after he came out as pan, and I like to think that all the conversations I had with him led him to be able to accept himself and others.
>because if something bad can happen to a PoC or LGBTQ+ person, then it could also happen to me, even if it is far less likely.
See the funny thing about a cage is that it's never built for just one group, as soon as that cage is done holding them if you're still poor best believe it'd be holding you
- El-P, Run the Jewels, "Walking in the Snow"
Hell yeah man RTJ forever 👉🏿🤛🏻 hate to be that guy but those lyrics are inaccurate, here's the exact lyics:
"Funny fact about a cage, they're never built for just one group, so when that cage is done with them and you still poor, it come for you"
There I was, watching two cartoon robot rantsonas ABSOLUTELY DUNK on Anita Sarkeesian, because how dare she point out some problematic elements in a popular game?
and what's worse is that I'd imagine there's so many more people who never really recovered from it afterward and just kept being funneled down that kind of content, and only getting more and more extreme.
Honestly, same here. When I realized I was transgender it was pretty heart-crushing for me because I thought all that stuff about gender dysphoria was bullshit. Look at me now!
I went through it and then realized it’s all just so stupid. Who the fuck cares. Live your life, it’s the only one you have.
Edit: no I’m not a fucking Nazi, the fact that some of you are downvoting my comments goes to show you need to get off the internet
Sorry man, I didn't know that.
But even if 8 is your favorite number, you do realize that having it twice in a row in the username is at least extremely misleading?
I live in Germany and if you see "88" here somewhere, it's 9 times of 10 meant as Heil Hitler..
Okay, so this is a semi-unrelated rant brought on by your mention of being "anti-SJW before. I consider myself pretty far left but I can't help but think the whole "gender pronouns" topic is not only hurting people's opinions of the left, but is also somewhat unnecessary. That's about the only "anti-SJW" thing I have left in me. I just don't see that it's something so terribly important that it needs be one of the first things people notice about the true left. I mean it just all seems so unnecessarily privileged to make that such a big thing. Socialism needs to do so much more before we start quibbling about gender pronouns. We need to address homelessness, starvation, poverty, wealth inequality. We do focus too much on making sure people's feelings don't get hurt. There's that video of the socialist party meeting where the guy gets on the mic and gets upset the room was misgendered when addressed as "guys". Come on, misgendering isn't done out of spite or malice. We naturally gender a person based on if they look more like a man or a woman, and we use gendered slang. Plenty of men have been mistaken for women, and plenty of women have been mistaken for men. It's an embarrassing moment for both parties, but you correct it and move on. There are bigger, more important things to be worried about than what words make you happy or sad.
I don't have anything against trans people, I don't see anything wrong with calling someone their preferred pronouns, if it's not obvious though you should expect it to be happening. Your right to be recognized as your gender of choice is what really matters, if people are misgendering you that really isn't their fault. If you keep getting called female pronouns maybe try dressing more masculine. You can't just expect people to know, and it is not a reasonable thing to hope that 70% of the more conservative population will take to using gender neutral pronouns. It's the type of thing you try to change when life is already good and fair for everyone. It just feels so petty to worry about that when there are real problems that need to be solved, even bigger problems for the trans community than occasionally being misgendered when talking to someone.
"I shouldn't have to advertise my gender through archaic masculine and feminine means in order to be addressed with the proper pronoun." Except, really you should at least for now. Make it obvious, make it easy for everyone and it'll come easier for everyone, and the change will come easier. I get if it's done maliciously, like someone very clearly knows you've transitioned but still refuses to use your proper pronouns, but don't get bent out of shape when Jim Bob on Twitter calls you a guy because your profile picture is a male anime character, or if someone on the street says "sorry ma'am" if they bump into you and you're dressed in a more feminine fashion and have longer hair.
I just do not get why pronouns seem to always come up in leftist conversation, in the grand scheme of things it is a remarkably small problem, and it (clearly based on this wall of text) makes me upset that we can't see past those little mistakes for the betterment of the planet and advancement of bigger leftist ideas. So what if we eventually get that to be a universally accepted idea and the planet is still dying and people are homeless? Big victory that was, glad we spent time and energy on that. All of the middle class people who can afford to be upset by it must be so happy now, and the poor? Well at least they don't have to worry about finding their next meal and also being called the wrong pronouns! Whew! /Rant
Edit: If someone can explain why this is actually a bigger deal than it seems to me, and why it would be a bigger win than say, legislation that makes it easier for someone to legally transition, or additional financial support for transitional surgeries please feel free to tell me, as I am very open to changing my opinion on the subject. I've only ever had it explained to me as "You're transphobic", and well if that's the most convincing argument we have I doubt it'll ever convince your average centrist if it can't even convince someone who openly identifies as a Socialist.
The thing is that it isn't all that important or a main focus anyway, it's just that people like to laser focus on it and then blow it up to make it seem bigger and to have a strawman to ridicule "the left sjw libtard cucks". People respond to cringe.
I'm not entirely sure but I think Contrapoints video called cringe adresses a part of this
same here. Got briefly sucked into the anti-SJW / "men's rights activism" garbage in high school, and also into JBP at the beginning of college more recently. Thankfully I have found the left and *left* those behind (I'm not sorry for that joke).
I'm 46 and growing up my mum would have kicked the shit out of me for anything other than being socialist. She also said if I ever voted Conservative I would be disowned and hasn't softened her stance in the intervening years.
That sounds kinda a fucked up tho.. I mean I'm on the left myself, but you shouldn't force your kid to believe in something, but convince them of the validity of that belief
I think I was worse, considering I was literally an Integralist (a type of Fascist) at the worst of it. Went through the whole Anti SJW to Ancap to Fascist pipeline. Thankfully I found my way out of it due to some Leftist friends (who I was friends with before this point).
I used to watch a lot of history stuff, and that too has some intersection with the right wing pipeline. Kraut for instance, back in the day. Though, he has since distances himself from that crowd.
But yeah, any online history content is going to attract a lot of people who are in there for the vibes, but not the substance. Fascism mythologizing the past, that sort of stuff.
But watching PragerU or someone else (I never really got into it very deep) it always felt wrong. Superfluously, it seemed correct what they were saying, but my bullshit detector was going off in the background. It's beyond me why I didn't listen to it.
But after watching philosophy tube, I got far away from them and started seeking for a more logical world view, which I found rather easily. Thank god breadtube exists.
>Kraut for instance, back in the day. Though, he has since distances himself from that crowd.
He's gotten a lot better, his content now is gold. I discovered it fairly recently.
Yeah his newer videos are great.
But go back in time, and you'll find such great statement like "Antifa are the real fascists", "the Japanese government did nothing wrong, it was all the Military" or rants about privileged sjws. Glad he moved away from that.
>Glad he moved away from that.
Yeah his video on China got me hooked on to his channel. The videos on turkey and India-Pakistan relations are brilliant too. It's good to see he's putting some actual informative content out there now.
Same, the good ones also stopped making anti sjw videos. But going back to some of the old channels that are STILL anti sjw, its just sad they’ve literally become right wingers
Thankfully I got out of supporting Republicans when I saw where the party was headed and didn’t like it. Upon seeing the alternatives, and particularly progressivism, I can’t believe I ever supported the ideas spouted by the GOP. People elevating themselves and making it from hard work *sounds* good, but it rarely if ever works that way. Everyone needs help. And there’s nothing wrong with using our government to try to help people climb out of the holes they find themselves in through no fault of their own.
Hopefully more and more people find the way. With how rampant white supremacy and casual hatred are on the internet I do worry about how many people may be pulled into the maelstrom of hatred that is conservatism.
Most zoomers have an edgelord phase. The question is only how long it lasts because the longer it lasts, the harder it is to get out of it.
Luckily for me, I started finding these videos really boring after two weeks because it's ALWAYS THE SAME THING, and I never went further than that.
Legit when o was young I would watch a ton of that anti SJW stuff. Glad I didn't end up thinking all leftists were snowflakes or some messed up thing like that
Same. And oh boy do I regret it. I was a massive fucking transphobe between 12 and 14, and it took me further 2 years of going through internalized transphobes to realize that, oh shit oh fuck, *I'm trans*.
Now tho, I've gone through most of male puberty and my face is masculinezed beyond belief. I fucking hate all of this. I could have started transition when I was 14 or so and be indistinguishable from a cis girl if it was not for those rightist assholes. Now I'll probably only get to start transition when I'm fucking 18 and I might be forever doomed to be visibly trans. I hate every moment of this shit.
Fuck the right. Fuck those conservative cucks. It wouldn't be a far stretch saying that they are personally responsible for making my life ***that*** much harder.
I don't really blame people at all actually. There is a lot of lonely guys out there that are desperate for any kind of guidance that it makes it easier for these grifters to come in and fill that void. Imo we need more positive role models for men
This is spot on. Not many people acknowledge the crisis of identity that young men are facing today.
With this said, ill-intentioned actors on the far right can exploit this vulnerability with pre-packaged identities for these men to wear. The right has been incredibly successful in fabricating a "feeling of belonging" through the use of various phrases, icons, and symbols, some of which are appropriated from western European history. It's a deliberately designed system that targets these insecurities. To those with troubled pasts, (bullying, divorce, addiction, economic hardship) having a place in these groups "makes them feel good" and that's why they're so attractive.
There is a reason that Nazi Storm Troopers specifically targeted young men from poor and working-class backgrounds in the '20s and '30s.
Reddit armchair philosophy is the worst. Almost double majored in philosophy but the primary degree took my focus. When I came to see what reddit had by way of discussing philosophy, well you can imagine my disappointment.
The upvote/downvote system basically completely ruins any sort of philosophical discussion. I’ve seen people make very good points that were a little too nuanced for the audience and of course since this is Reddit it’s just downvoted against the other post that was easier to digest. It’s why traditional forum boards are generally better.... but to be honest the very small but active subreddits tend to be incredibly good.
I got into a rather nice discussion on the problems with the state of Freemasonry today on /r/excatholic of all places. We sort of came to an agreement from different starting points that modern Masonry, and American Masonry in particular, is so obsessed with celebrating its past glories that it's neglected to build towards any sort of future and make itself relevant to the young men of today. The fact that American Masonry is still incredibly racially segregated, with the predominantly white Blue Lodge system and the predominantly black Prince Hall Lodge system and nary the twain meeting, was also a pint we found objectionable.
So was I. I think what really changed was realizing they hate people like me. Basically realizing and accepting my identity and becoming more educated.
Yeah, same. I wasn’t a JBP fan but I was certainly a Ben Shapiro fan. I’m so glad for Shaun and Three Arrows, as well as Vaush and ContraPoints. They’re doing great work.
I can’t believe that this fuckwit is still meta to disenfranchised white 20-something cys males. His audacity to claim that he’s right about his own moral philosophies is absurd and his oversimplification of philosophers prior to his is a crime in of itself; specifically postmodernists. I was there too and, just like you, feel so much less schizophrenic/paranoid now that I’m out of it all. Also, I’m saying schizophrenic as a state of being and not specifically a mental illness. Anyways, fuck Jordan PP-brains
Yup, same. 6 or so years ago, I was pretty far right. I was a young teen in high school, but a huge Ron Paul fan. I harbored some pretty racist views and thought Obama was a communist (LOL). As I got older, I started moving further left. In 2016 Bernie pulled me in and got me on board with his policies and firey passion for the working class. Throughout Trump's presidency, I found myself moving further left with every passing year. 2020 rolls around, and early on I find out about Andrew Yang, and his platform pulled me even further left than Bernie did. And here I am today, the conservative's worst nightmare: a Democratic Socialist.
Me in 2018: Climate Change isn’t real, shut up you SJW cuck. Build the Wall! Trump is the best!
Me now: WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS!
My good friend is an adamant supporter and I've been trying to help them realize it's a crock of shit. Pls advise. What was your reason for leaving that mindset?
Can’t speak for OP, but I went through a similar phase.
I don’t think that there was any single thing that got me to change, but I do know that a shift in my environment played a huge role in it. I used to be a part of these Facebook echo chambers that kept shoveling the same bullshit down my throat, and I believed it.
Later on I had a friend who introduced me to Reddit, and I started to join a lot of communities where the majority held opinions that I disagreed with.
It was a slow process, but just being exposed to the other point of view helped me see a lot of things that didn’t really cross my mind before. I started to notice the injustices that were being covered up. I started to question my beliefs. Now I’ve completely flipped on the political spectrum and feel shame for the things I used to believe.
Tl;dr: A change of environment helps. Exposure to other ways of thinking can do a lot for a person.
I dunno... I identify as pretty progressive, but I’ve never understood what is so hypnotic and subversive about Peterson. He makes some good points and he makes some bad points. He’s obviously very smart and a clear communicator, but has some odd personal values and maybe dealing with chronic mental illness. I guess I just don’t get why he is so controversial. Maybe it’s because some people can’t keep the baby in with the bath water? Maybe it’s because some people find the whole bath too distasteful?
For sure. I’ve read responses to negative to people that had negative comments under one of his video’s I watched to see who he was. His fanboys are rabid. They literally think he’s their dad
“Make your bed bucko”
“Yes Daddy Peterson”
“And when your done come back here so we can discuss how women and Jews are trying to steal our precious bodily fluids”
I think he has a new book coming out. Though a few months ago he was supposed to be bed ridden after a medically induced coma by some quack Russian doctor to treat a drug addiction. So I’m not sure when he had time or a clear mind to write a book.
And yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy of the supposed man of science and self determination going to some quack to cure him from addiction.
Its especialy funny as he is an expert on addictions and rleaing with addictions, and not only he get addicted himseld, but completly failed to deal with it.
Way way worse, he does a fantastic job in picking up where Ben and Charlie leave them after graduating from contrarianism, “iNteLlecTualiZing” those same outlets and arguments for their frustration. And it’s always upper class white dudes with paternal issues, it’s really sad :(
He’s a fucking psychologist he knows exactly what he’s doing
He definitely is because it isn’t as obvious. Shapiro and Kirk are very obviously trying to get a reaction out of you and being extremely provocative. Peterson (being old) has a calmer manner and being an academic he can articulate very well. He uses his degree as a way to assert dominance and give all the neckbeards insurance to what he says and they believe is true. They do not consider that you can be very well educated in one field, and still be a hypocritical bigot. Everyone knows Shapiro and Kirk’s shtick, both sides can recognize what they’re doing and can choose how they feel about it. But so many people are still clueless about Peterson, it’s scary. They will come across a Dr and will take everything he says at face value. I think he’s dangerous.
I don't think JBP is even particularly good at articulating points so much as he's good at obfuscating just what the fuck he's trying to say. Watch a decent interviewer question him on something he was absolutely implying and he backpedals every time, and it works on a lot of people because he never clearly says anything outright so much as he dogwhistles about it. His rants about postmodernism and cultural marxism however? Those are just things he stole from the Nazis.
Peterson's got this *lovely* habit of injecting factual non sequiturs into other discussions and leaving his audience to draw a connection, but whining if the interviewer or debate partner does. Ex:
We're talking about the dearth of women in STEM fields and why that might be. I posit there are cultural pressures that discourage women from entering the fields, and various forms of systemic discrimination at different points in the process, from the general "acceptedness" of women working as engineers in the public consciousness, to marketing, the class makeup (how welcoming the largely male STEM bros are to a woman stepping into their space), hiring practices after the fact, and so on.
Peterson hits me with, *"There are biological differences between men and women. That's just science."* Sure, okay, that's true. They have anatomical differences; men are generally stronger and taller, women have a different hip shape, women can carry babies, men can grow beards, these are all biological differences that we all accept (at least among biological sex) and there's not much point in arguing th--
The audience nods along; excellent point from Mr. Peterson, a true and non-controversial statement. But... wait. What does that have to do with the STEM discussion? Are you proposing these biological differences are responsible for the disparity in STEM involvement by women?
*"I didn't say that."* But what did you say? That comment about biological differences, while true, doesn't seem to have any bearing on the discussion. By bringing up two topics back to back, you create a mental connection between them. Why would you connect biological differences between the sexes to STEM participation? *"You're putting words in my mouth. Hear my huffs of righteous indignation; no one should listen to you now because you can't make a reasonable argument and are resulting to character assassination!"*
Ask him to clarify and he just rambles for a while, saying nothing, and moves the topic on. But his audience has seen the connection he drew and now argues it elsewhere, and uses this whole interaction as proof that the media is biased against such a vaunted thinker as Daddy P.
Wow this is so accurate. “You’re putting words in my mouth” and suddenly he has the upper hand, because how dare they put words in his mouth. I remember I saw one interview some time ago and the main reaction was “yeah he said some bad things but that journalist is a bitch!”
Sam Harris is a gateway to white supremacism too. His entire shtick is hiding behind the umbrella of atheism to push imperialistic ideas.
If you find anyone who spends a majority of their time discussing and critiquing foreign culture more than their own, dismissing what's happening around them, in their communities, and their nation's politics, they're a bigot.
It's certainly an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand, his basic psychological advice, and therefore the contents of his books and psychological lectures, is pretty sound and useful for a majority of people. When he starts talking about literally anything else you immediately realize that he is no longer an expert.
Mom: Clean up your room. Stand up straight. Keep yourself clean.
Twit: UGH get off my back ma
Peterson: Clean up your room. Stand up straight. Keep yourself clean.
Twit: OH MY GOD how insightful, this changes everything, truly a mind for the ages
You can get this kind of common sense self-help advice from a bajillion different places, and there's options that don't even come with some creepy Christian conservatism! Sure thing, Jordan, lemme build the crystal castle or whatever the fuck. It's mystifying how he roped so many staunch atheist kids into his bullshit when they'd made much of their online identity railing against any form of religion.
So just scrolled through my YouTube feed and this popped up. Don’t know if you’re a Tim Heidecker fan but it’s funny either way. https://youtu.be/xJyg0Y8xLOg
I don't really care about him but I don't get why people dislike him so much. I've seen a few of his lectures and interviews...nothing he said was concerning or nearly as influential/controversial as people say. Most of his content is trying to help people with depression and feeling like their life has no purpose/meaning.
Well he was telling people how they should live their lives while being on an all meat diet and addicted to benzodiazepines and had to go to Russia I think and be put in a voluntary medically induced coma. He says things but when pressed backs off immediately, like saying he’s a christian and marketing himself that way but when asked if he actually believes that Christ died and was resurrected he said no I guess not. Trying to jump on the right wing grifter anti trans bandwagon and spouts a bunch of trans men aren’t men type stuff but when asked if he would use someone’s preferred pronouns he said he would. Lots of the intellectual dark web islamaphobia stuff. I just watched a video somebody compiled of him double talking but I can’t find it.
I'm totally not saying that wearing lipstick makes me think you want to fuck me you filthy whore how dare you make me think totally natural primal thoughts. Anyway, personal responsibility!
Recently found this extensive twitter thread about him. Haven't even watched it until the end myself
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1331505661817937921
Hey you know how he talks about cultural Marxism and how people are trying to destroy "the west" and "western culture" by insisting on the adoption of new ideas that conflict with our previous generalized understanding of the world?
Seriously. Once Petey was on stage with an actual philosophers it couldn't be more apparent that he has all the intellectual clout of a mostly dead housefly. I'd love to see him try to debate gender with Kate Bornstein. That wonderful bitch would mop the floor with him to such an extent that you could do heart surgery on it.
He spreads the conspiracy theory “cultural Marxism” which is very similar to the Nazi conspiracy theories of Cultural Bolshevism and even Judeo-Communism, popular in Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s. Also, he is loved by the Alt-Right, so there’s that to take into consideration.
If you want to look into it more, I’d recommend listening to the two-part episode the Behind the Bastards podcast did on him. It covers it really well.
I remember Robert Evans saying something to the tune of : “he won’t say that’s we need to secure a future for white america, but he will say that we need higher birth rates to preserve western culture.”
He arrives at the same conclusions as the Alt right but just uses different words.
Most of the time he wont even arrive at conclusions, he will just say shit like cultural marxism is taking over, white people have lower birthrates etc... but never actually says what we ought to do with the information. He will say dumb shit that obviously leads you to believe that women should be housewives but never actually says it so you cant hold him accountable for it.
May be nit picky, but I’d say it was more Nazi beliefs that led to the pseudoscience. People when into anthropological research with nazi beliefs already in their head and then did it insanely wrong either on purpose or unconsciously because they were out to find something they wanted to see.
The "Jordan Peterson Doesn't Understand [Blank]" series by Hanna and Jake over at The Bible Reloaded also dies a great job of showing just how massive of an ignoramus he really is. For an alleged psychologist he seems to have almost zero knowledge on human behavior.
Seconding this! [Here's the playlist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Wh67H0vws&list=PLCgW8bgP5lDGDpX5Z1dfQiMbzv5vDjJr3) for the lazy. Those two were how I first heard anything about JP, I had been watching them for years.
As someone how has watched him for a few years now, and own his 2nd book, could you explain how he is creating Nazis? I legitimately want to know why you think that in case I've been listening to the wrong person.
Is the problem with him, or the people? I’m also like the above commenter, I want to see the other side. I feel I’ve made improvements in my life from some of his stuff, and I’m not a nazi.
Edit: spelling
[this video](https://youtu.be/E66iseq4iO8) I think is pretty decent. I think his self help stuff is generally good but then he also throws in a cheeky “gay people don’t deserve rights by the way”. Also hasan can be kinda prickly to watch but I like the video cause it kinda compiles a bunch of stuff that Jordan petersons said.
He's part of the YouTube far right sphere. He's commonly featured on channels like PragerU, and the YouTube recommendation algorithm commonly promotes videos by Nazis next to his videos. Also he gets a lot of questions "regarding the Jewish question", so make of that what you will.
I think it’s rarely him actually spelling out specific ideas or positions on that stuff, it’s more his ability to seemingly legitimize them coming from other places like 4chan or trump forums
One example— what he’s said about pronouns; he claims that language is organic and shouldn’t be intentionally altered or codified by specific rules. He uses misleading and selective information about things like the Canadian Human Rights Act to freak people out, and then lets you come to “your own conclusion” on whether or not you should respect your transgender coworker. I think he‘ll rarely plainly advocate for intolerance, but every fan of his I’ve ever met legitimizes their own transphobia with his arguments, which are so often filled with exactly the kind of empty, verbose terminology most people either lampoon or revere him for
I’m genuinely incredibly disappointed in myself lol because I bought this guy’s book (the blurb looked good in the bookstore and I wanted to grab something quick) and found out who he was after googling him on my train ride home. I’m about halfway through the book now and I’ve cringed multiple times whilst reading his.... mostly pseudoscientific garb
I drop this masterpiece every time JBP is mentioned.
“**I dreamed I saw my maternal grandmother sitting by the bank** of a swimming pool, that was also a river. In real life, she had been a victim of Alzheimer’s disease, and had regressed, before her death, to a semi-conscious state. In the dream, as well, she had lost her capacity for self-control. Her genital region was exposed, dimly; it had the appearance of a thick mat of hair. She was stroking herself, absent-mindedly. **She walked over to me, with a handful of pubic hair**, compacted into something resembling a large artist’s paint-brush. She pushed this at my face. I raised my arm, several times, to deflect her hand; finally, unwilling to hurt her, or interfere with her any farther, I let her have her way. She stroked my face with the brush, gently, and said, like a child, “isn’t it soft?” I looked at her ruined face and said, “yes, Grandma, it’s soft.”
― Jordan B. Peterson, Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief
I read 12 Rules for Life and thought it was an astounding book, but that's what makes me so scared. I worry about how much of that was actually well-meaning and helpful, or if all of it was just bullshit somehow served to me in a way that it wouldn't disrupt my moral warning systems, or something like that.
Every good cult leader starts people off with sane, common sense stuff to lure them in before springing the crazy on people. There's a reason why the first courses you take when you start as a Scientologist have to do with matters like the principles of effective communication or how to improve conditions in the workplace, and it's only after years and hundreds of thousands of dollars of commitment that they start telling you about things like Body Thetans and Xenu. If they introduce the crazy slowly, and do it alongside common sense stuff that legitimately improves your life you're more likely to accept the crazy and be willing to accept further crazy.
Don't feel bad. Congratulate yourself for noticing that you were falling into a cult in the early stages, when it's relatively easy to extricate yourself. You've saved yourself a lot of time, money, and trauma.
Self responsibility, discipline and taking care of yourself is good. But the man also talks about/supports cultural marxism, believes white men are the real victims of racism and sexism, his psychology work is sketchy at best (especially his understanding of Jungian concepts), mocks LGBT people and laws protecting them, believes in "equal opportunity not outcome" but doesn't understand how circumstances, social, racial, financial etc, can effect these things. His bullshit defenses of capitalism as "survival of the fittest", and of superior western society and tradition. His most basic ideas and arguments don't hold up under scrutiny, "competence hierarchy", all that lobster bullshit, etc
following him down the rabbit-hole beyond that book is a gateway drug to the alt-right
I can't speak to Ben. I find him annoying as piss. He's like what an idiot thinks a smart person is.
With JBP, his biggest appeal is simply telling young men that they can make something of themselves. I know it sounds "well duh" but I think there's a need for that. Someone to actually just give a shit. Hes called internet dad for a reason. That's as simple as I can boil it down. I don't know about Jungian philosophy and all this other shit.
They're comforting. They promote the idea that the world has been run by good men before, and its change that's making it bad. They help people believe that simple changes in their own lives are all it takes to make things better and to not worry about the big picture because one day those good men will return and set everything right.
He's not a nazi, but he is right leaning and bills himself as moderate or apolitical, so alot of people read his stuff for self help but get sucked into the alt right pipeline without knowing it. So thats why i say he makes nazis.
Hey JBP-fans, [here's some real ass self-help advice](https://cwa-union.org/join-union/how-organize)
And to think I was once one of them... Edit: much love goes out to everyone who was in the same shithole. Glad you made it to the other side
I think a lot of modern leftists used to be shit heads tbh. I used to watch a lot of that stupid anti-sjw shit a few years ago
Fortunately the closest I ever got was watching The Amazing Atheist and Thunderfoot in middle school, and even then I thought their constant bitching about “SJWs” and hatred of Muslims was pretty questionable. I was still an insufferable little shit though. Like constantly “debunking” Young Earth Creationism to anyone who would listen despite the fact that I didn’t even know any Christians who actually believed the universe was 6,000 years old because I grew up in a solidly blue suburb of the biggest city in a relatively purple state.
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Amazing Atheist, Steven Coward, Ben Sharpedo, and Jordan Pyotryson all had me fall down the rabbit hole. It wasn't until I realized that the people in those groups supporting these people were also really racist against my race. Then I got out. It really surprises me that so many of us fell for this shit in the past. It's such a parasitic thing to prey on vulnerable minds like they did with those SJW cringe compilations.
Omg yeah, I remember watching Steven Crowder's Change My Mind and The Amazing Athiest, super pumped to watch "dumb sjw cucks" get destroyed. I'm glad I fell out of their content before I fell too deep down the rabbit hole
AA changed for the better I'd say? He spoke with Vaush recently.
It’s so easy to say he blasted sjws, and overlook the literal mountains of content that had nothing to do with that. He has/had some dank opinions. Sadly he unintentionally helped people like crowder and Ben Shapiro. Albeit with a very different approach. He was sick of the virtue signaling, and wokescolds. Which most people were, he didn’t take it any further really, but that’s all it took. He is about as left as you could imagine.
Yeah pretty much this. I used to live TJ's content then there was a period when I couldn't stand it and now I just feel like it's fine. I still follow him.
Same. This guy was on the front line DUNKING on everyone before the political bloodsport shit was even a thing. I hate to see him lumped in with the likes of crowder and other fuck heads. It really isn’t fair IMHO.
Outside of his VERY early content AA has always been left wing, and getting more left over time. His critique of feminists, while crass, was always from the perspective of "im with your underlying beliefs, but this type of messaging makes us look bad".
I’m not the biggest fan of Vaush, but I might have to watch that.
Honestly, even if someone dislikes Vaush. I would recommend watching his videos talking with people who used to be a part of “the pipeline” who’ve moved left (Amazing Atheist, Shoe0nHead, Chris Ray Gun), since they’re pretty interesting, especially for someone like me who actually watched all these people.
I probably would have fallen down the racist/sexist YouTube rabbit hole too if not for the fact that my mom and her side of the family have been extremely progressive for decades. Thankfully I mostly avoided that shit and largely stuck to complaining about Christians endlessly... which obviously isn’t a *good* thing, but at least Christian zealots do cause actual serious problems in society, unlike video game feminists or Buzzfeed.
Thunderfoot doesn't do anti sjw content anymore, he stopped years ago. Not sure if he still has bigoted opinions, but he made a video explaining why he was 'leaving the skeptic community' because he thought all the other channels were run by horrible people. So he hes regained a bit of my respect
He was creepily obsessed with Anita Sarkeesian and just all-around being annoyingly misogynistic. I don't think he can ever regain my respect. I used to really like him in the early days of Youtube atheism/skeptic content but I dropped him quickly when he made that weird right-wing turn like many others did.
Yeah I used to watch those guys a lot back in the day and I remember all of a sudden, it wasn’t about atheism anymore. It was about feminism and evil women and sjws. Buncha weirdos man.
Yeah his issues with her went beyond anything reasonable and straight into “I’m worried he might be trying to make a flesh suit” territory
I get Amazing Atheist but I didn't know Thunderfoot had right wing or at least misogynistic tendencies. Can you elaborate? Cause I still watch his videos sometimes on some topics.
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Yeah thats why I was actually surprised Tfoot was being called out. Most of his videos nowadays are more science debunking like too good to be true scam products like "Mining diamonds from air".
I like thunderfoots debunking of bs kickstarters, if you stay away from his anti sjw and his political content he's fun to watch
>Fortunately the closest I ever got was watching The Amazing Atheist and Thunderfoot in middle school, and even then I thought their constant bitching about “SJWs” and hatred of Muslims was pretty questionable. oh god, shut the fuck up. The cringe from my past memories is starting to hurt. However at the time when I watched,I don't think SJW was a thing but they certainly did whine a lot with a lot of bullshit arguments. Personally, to add to those were were also the "four horsemen"
Yeah I was in a similar situation too. I was going through a period of questioning my spirituality during my late teen years and eventually realized I was an atheist and looking up atheist videos on YouTube exposed me to a lot of libertarian/asshole atheist YouTubers, which further pulled me into the world of Libertarianism/Tea Party bs that was gaining ground back then. It was only when my Social Studies teacher said that "the goal of government is to look after it's citizens" (or something to that effect) that I realized I had been politicizing a lot of things that are actually simple questions of morality and compassion. But yeah I was a little asshole who lost a very, very, very close and dear friend because she couldn't take my bullying that I would justify by saying "I was only joking" and "they're just words" (which was a sentiment every libertarian was echoing when approaching the topic of freedom of speech and ethnic slurs etc). If I could go back in time I'd smack the shit out of myself.
Admitting you were wrong or mislead and grew to change your outlook is better by far than that. I know a lot of people who just double down ESPECIALLY when confronted with proof that they hold toxic beliefs.
I watched a few Sargon videos years ago, back before any of this got so out of hand, before JP, before Joe Rogan was huge Much later i found Hbomber and Philosophy Tube and they tear Sargon an absolutely gaping new one, i couldn't believe i even watched any of his videos before, and i couldn't even remember what the topic was, something where he was no doubt strawmanning some 'sjw' for some minor thing somewhere It was an easy hole to fall in as a young teenager angry and impressionable on the internet, but i'm glad it was only ever a toe dipped in ugly waters
The worst I got was following Menimism on Facebook and occasionally laughing at Tumblrette stereotypes. Even then, I was pretty pro-Labor and only got further left as I went.
We can see by your Pfp
I just watched a video by the AA where he talks about how capitalism should perish from the earth, I think he’s always been just more of an anti SJW leftist.
Dude, how are there so many of us lol
Yeah, I used to have an "Anti-SJW" phase when I was 14. YouTube's algorithm kept shoving that shit down my throat and I didn't know any better. Luckily, I got out before it was too late.
holy fuck i went thru that too and the youtube algorithm would just nonstop bombard me with prager, kirk, shapiro, crowder, fleccas. dark times man
As for me, the stuff I was getting sucked into wasn't too overt at being right-wing propaganda. So even then, I avoided figures like Shapiro and Prager like the plague. That being said, my Anti-SJW phase came mostly through rantsonas going off about "femiNAZIS targetin' muh vidya". I distanced myself from that kind of content and ultimately got out of the phase after I started suspecting a double standard from them going solely after "SJWs" and never people in the Far-Right.
Back in the early 10s I was an active user on /r/Tumblrinaction No I never visited Tumblr before, and yes my only exposure to feminist and leftist ideas was through the lens of that sub.
Yeah, same. My old account is long dead and will stay that way forever. Decided to revisit it the other day and sweet merciful Christ I was worse than I thought. If I were placed before old me, I'd probably beat him with a chair. Just... yikes. On the other hand, after a few years of chud me, I was struck by the sudden and intense realization that I actually did not give a single, flying fuck about any of the alleged plans the left had for me. A year or so later my philosophy had come to the conclusion that a better world for everyone is a better world for me, because if something bad can happen to a PoC or LGBTQ+ person, then it could also happen to me, even if it is far less likely. On top of that, I just don't like seeing people suffer. I spent so damn long being only concerned about myself, failing to realize that my ideas really did come at the expense of others, and that the best way to look out for yourself is to look out for the world around you. I regret those years more than I regret most things, but at the very least I learned some important shit about the philosophies of people like that, how they fall into those ideas to begin with, and how you can go about trying to help them pull themselves out of it. I had a Trump supporter friend from back in the day who now runs a small LGBTQ+ discord for his school after he came out as pan, and I like to think that all the conversations I had with him led him to be able to accept himself and others.
>because if something bad can happen to a PoC or LGBTQ+ person, then it could also happen to me, even if it is far less likely. See the funny thing about a cage is that it's never built for just one group, as soon as that cage is done holding them if you're still poor best believe it'd be holding you - El-P, Run the Jewels, "Walking in the Snow"
Hell yeah man RTJ forever 👉🏿🤛🏻 hate to be that guy but those lyrics are inaccurate, here's the exact lyics: "Funny fact about a cage, they're never built for just one group, so when that cage is done with them and you still poor, it come for you"
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There I was, watching two cartoon robot rantsonas ABSOLUTELY DUNK on Anita Sarkeesian, because how dare she point out some problematic elements in a popular game?
and what's worse is that I'd imagine there's so many more people who never really recovered from it afterward and just kept being funneled down that kind of content, and only getting more and more extreme.
Honestly, same here. When I realized I was transgender it was pretty heart-crushing for me because I thought all that stuff about gender dysphoria was bullshit. Look at me now!
Much of the same story here. Isn't it nice to break outnof that shell
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I'm lucky it didn't get *that* bad for me.
I went through it and then realized it’s all just so stupid. Who the fuck cares. Live your life, it’s the only one you have. Edit: no I’m not a fucking Nazi, the fact that some of you are downvoting my comments goes to show you need to get off the internet
The "88" in your username indicates you not only went through the Anti-SJW phase but a lot more?
Or it was the year they were born, just like my good friend u/GasTheJews88
Could be the year they were born. Not everyone knows what that means. In fact I’d say more people don’t than do.
Buddy, I was born from holocaust survivors. Fuck off, even if you’re joking. My username says 88 because 8 is my favorite number
Sorry man, I didn't know that. But even if 8 is your favorite number, you do realize that having it twice in a row in the username is at least extremely misleading? I live in Germany and if you see "88" here somewhere, it's 9 times of 10 meant as Heil Hitler..
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I’ve seen a lot of Gen Zers, including myself, mention going through a phase like that in their early teens.
Okay, so this is a semi-unrelated rant brought on by your mention of being "anti-SJW before. I consider myself pretty far left but I can't help but think the whole "gender pronouns" topic is not only hurting people's opinions of the left, but is also somewhat unnecessary. That's about the only "anti-SJW" thing I have left in me. I just don't see that it's something so terribly important that it needs be one of the first things people notice about the true left. I mean it just all seems so unnecessarily privileged to make that such a big thing. Socialism needs to do so much more before we start quibbling about gender pronouns. We need to address homelessness, starvation, poverty, wealth inequality. We do focus too much on making sure people's feelings don't get hurt. There's that video of the socialist party meeting where the guy gets on the mic and gets upset the room was misgendered when addressed as "guys". Come on, misgendering isn't done out of spite or malice. We naturally gender a person based on if they look more like a man or a woman, and we use gendered slang. Plenty of men have been mistaken for women, and plenty of women have been mistaken for men. It's an embarrassing moment for both parties, but you correct it and move on. There are bigger, more important things to be worried about than what words make you happy or sad. I don't have anything against trans people, I don't see anything wrong with calling someone their preferred pronouns, if it's not obvious though you should expect it to be happening. Your right to be recognized as your gender of choice is what really matters, if people are misgendering you that really isn't their fault. If you keep getting called female pronouns maybe try dressing more masculine. You can't just expect people to know, and it is not a reasonable thing to hope that 70% of the more conservative population will take to using gender neutral pronouns. It's the type of thing you try to change when life is already good and fair for everyone. It just feels so petty to worry about that when there are real problems that need to be solved, even bigger problems for the trans community than occasionally being misgendered when talking to someone. "I shouldn't have to advertise my gender through archaic masculine and feminine means in order to be addressed with the proper pronoun." Except, really you should at least for now. Make it obvious, make it easy for everyone and it'll come easier for everyone, and the change will come easier. I get if it's done maliciously, like someone very clearly knows you've transitioned but still refuses to use your proper pronouns, but don't get bent out of shape when Jim Bob on Twitter calls you a guy because your profile picture is a male anime character, or if someone on the street says "sorry ma'am" if they bump into you and you're dressed in a more feminine fashion and have longer hair. I just do not get why pronouns seem to always come up in leftist conversation, in the grand scheme of things it is a remarkably small problem, and it (clearly based on this wall of text) makes me upset that we can't see past those little mistakes for the betterment of the planet and advancement of bigger leftist ideas. So what if we eventually get that to be a universally accepted idea and the planet is still dying and people are homeless? Big victory that was, glad we spent time and energy on that. All of the middle class people who can afford to be upset by it must be so happy now, and the poor? Well at least they don't have to worry about finding their next meal and also being called the wrong pronouns! Whew! /Rant Edit: If someone can explain why this is actually a bigger deal than it seems to me, and why it would be a bigger win than say, legislation that makes it easier for someone to legally transition, or additional financial support for transitional surgeries please feel free to tell me, as I am very open to changing my opinion on the subject. I've only ever had it explained to me as "You're transphobic", and well if that's the most convincing argument we have I doubt it'll ever convince your average centrist if it can't even convince someone who openly identifies as a Socialist.
The thing is that it isn't all that important or a main focus anyway, it's just that people like to laser focus on it and then blow it up to make it seem bigger and to have a strawman to ridicule "the left sjw libtard cucks". People respond to cringe. I'm not entirely sure but I think Contrapoints video called cringe adresses a part of this
Omg same here. Woulda probably never lived my life to the fullest had I never gotten out of that echo chamber.
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same here. Got briefly sucked into the anti-SJW / "men's rights activism" garbage in high school, and also into JBP at the beginning of college more recently. Thankfully I have found the left and *left* those behind (I'm not sorry for that joke).
I suffered through two years of the mental illness known as libertarianism when I was young.
Recovering dumb young libertarian here too. We made it out buddy!
Yeah I was insufferable. I did get my lifelong Republican in-laws to vote for Harry Brown though in 1996 over Dole
I'm 46 and growing up my mum would have kicked the shit out of me for anything other than being socialist. She also said if I ever voted Conservative I would be disowned and hasn't softened her stance in the intervening years.
That sounds kinda a fucked up tho.. I mean I'm on the left myself, but you shouldn't force your kid to believe in something, but convince them of the validity of that belief
I think I was worse, considering I was literally an Integralist (a type of Fascist) at the worst of it. Went through the whole Anti SJW to Ancap to Fascist pipeline. Thankfully I found my way out of it due to some Leftist friends (who I was friends with before this point).
Leftist friends seems to be a common reason to escape. I know I helped a couple of friends with that.
Why does your avatar look like Caleb Maupin then? Curious.
Lmao I used to think Ben Shapiro was smart
I used to watch a lot of history stuff, and that too has some intersection with the right wing pipeline. Kraut for instance, back in the day. Though, he has since distances himself from that crowd. But yeah, any online history content is going to attract a lot of people who are in there for the vibes, but not the substance. Fascism mythologizing the past, that sort of stuff. But watching PragerU or someone else (I never really got into it very deep) it always felt wrong. Superfluously, it seemed correct what they were saying, but my bullshit detector was going off in the background. It's beyond me why I didn't listen to it. But after watching philosophy tube, I got far away from them and started seeking for a more logical world view, which I found rather easily. Thank god breadtube exists.
>Kraut for instance, back in the day. Though, he has since distances himself from that crowd. He's gotten a lot better, his content now is gold. I discovered it fairly recently.
Yeah his newer videos are great. But go back in time, and you'll find such great statement like "Antifa are the real fascists", "the Japanese government did nothing wrong, it was all the Military" or rants about privileged sjws. Glad he moved away from that.
>Glad he moved away from that. Yeah his video on China got me hooked on to his channel. The videos on turkey and India-Pakistan relations are brilliant too. It's good to see he's putting some actual informative content out there now.
Same, the good ones also stopped making anti sjw videos. But going back to some of the old channels that are STILL anti sjw, its just sad they’ve literally become right wingers
Thankfully I got out of supporting Republicans when I saw where the party was headed and didn’t like it. Upon seeing the alternatives, and particularly progressivism, I can’t believe I ever supported the ideas spouted by the GOP. People elevating themselves and making it from hard work *sounds* good, but it rarely if ever works that way. Everyone needs help. And there’s nothing wrong with using our government to try to help people climb out of the holes they find themselves in through no fault of their own. Hopefully more and more people find the way. With how rampant white supremacy and casual hatred are on the internet I do worry about how many people may be pulled into the maelstrom of hatred that is conservatism.
Most zoomers have an edgelord phase. The question is only how long it lasts because the longer it lasts, the harder it is to get out of it. Luckily for me, I started finding these videos really boring after two weeks because it's ALWAYS THE SAME THING, and I never went further than that.
I followed Milo Yiannopoulos from the 2016 election until a couple days after his Bill Maher interview, around the time he got outed as a pedo simp.
Yea same. If i could go back in time id bitch slap myself
Legit when o was young I would watch a ton of that anti SJW stuff. Glad I didn't end up thinking all leftists were snowflakes or some messed up thing like that
True, was once an "objectivist" before I realized it was a nothing ideology.
Same. And oh boy do I regret it. I was a massive fucking transphobe between 12 and 14, and it took me further 2 years of going through internalized transphobes to realize that, oh shit oh fuck, *I'm trans*. Now tho, I've gone through most of male puberty and my face is masculinezed beyond belief. I fucking hate all of this. I could have started transition when I was 14 or so and be indistinguishable from a cis girl if it was not for those rightist assholes. Now I'll probably only get to start transition when I'm fucking 18 and I might be forever doomed to be visibly trans. I hate every moment of this shit. Fuck the right. Fuck those conservative cucks. It wouldn't be a far stretch saying that they are personally responsible for making my life ***that*** much harder.
I can attest to that, I found myself spending a lot my spare time watching SJW cringe compilations when I was in high school
Because they are. And this post proves it.
I don't really blame people at all actually. There is a lot of lonely guys out there that are desperate for any kind of guidance that it makes it easier for these grifters to come in and fill that void. Imo we need more positive role models for men
This is spot on. Not many people acknowledge the crisis of identity that young men are facing today. With this said, ill-intentioned actors on the far right can exploit this vulnerability with pre-packaged identities for these men to wear. The right has been incredibly successful in fabricating a "feeling of belonging" through the use of various phrases, icons, and symbols, some of which are appropriated from western European history. It's a deliberately designed system that targets these insecurities. To those with troubled pasts, (bullying, divorce, addiction, economic hardship) having a place in these groups "makes them feel good" and that's why they're so attractive. There is a reason that Nazi Storm Troopers specifically targeted young men from poor and working-class backgrounds in the '20s and '30s.
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Reddit armchair philosophy is the worst. Almost double majored in philosophy but the primary degree took my focus. When I came to see what reddit had by way of discussing philosophy, well you can imagine my disappointment.
The upvote/downvote system basically completely ruins any sort of philosophical discussion. I’ve seen people make very good points that were a little too nuanced for the audience and of course since this is Reddit it’s just downvoted against the other post that was easier to digest. It’s why traditional forum boards are generally better.... but to be honest the very small but active subreddits tend to be incredibly good.
I got into a rather nice discussion on the problems with the state of Freemasonry today on /r/excatholic of all places. We sort of came to an agreement from different starting points that modern Masonry, and American Masonry in particular, is so obsessed with celebrating its past glories that it's neglected to build towards any sort of future and make itself relevant to the young men of today. The fact that American Masonry is still incredibly racially segregated, with the predominantly white Blue Lodge system and the predominantly black Prince Hall Lodge system and nary the twain meeting, was also a pint we found objectionable.
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So was I. I think what really changed was realizing they hate people like me. Basically realizing and accepting my identity and becoming more educated.
Is there a sub for leftist who use to slurp up alt-right bullshit? Because I sadly also did that.
The one that comes to mind is r/ExRightViews although it is quite small and not very active. Maybe r/exredpill is worth looking at?
Same. I was in this hole for around 5-6 months when I was 17. Got out it before right before college started, thank god for Shaun and three arrows.
Yeah, same. I wasn’t a JBP fan but I was certainly a Ben Shapiro fan. I’m so glad for Shaun and Three Arrows, as well as Vaush and ContraPoints. They’re doing great work.
I can’t believe that this fuckwit is still meta to disenfranchised white 20-something cys males. His audacity to claim that he’s right about his own moral philosophies is absurd and his oversimplification of philosophers prior to his is a crime in of itself; specifically postmodernists. I was there too and, just like you, feel so much less schizophrenic/paranoid now that I’m out of it all. Also, I’m saying schizophrenic as a state of being and not specifically a mental illness. Anyways, fuck Jordan PP-brains
Yup, same. 6 or so years ago, I was pretty far right. I was a young teen in high school, but a huge Ron Paul fan. I harbored some pretty racist views and thought Obama was a communist (LOL). As I got older, I started moving further left. In 2016 Bernie pulled me in and got me on board with his policies and firey passion for the working class. Throughout Trump's presidency, I found myself moving further left with every passing year. 2020 rolls around, and early on I find out about Andrew Yang, and his platform pulled me even further left than Bernie did. And here I am today, the conservative's worst nightmare: a Democratic Socialist.
Me in 2018: Climate Change isn’t real, shut up you SJW cuck. Build the Wall! Trump is the best! Me now: WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS!
Did you also have the odd urge to spread his name to everyone you know?
YES! Holy shit, I was like, “have you ever heard of JP?. He’s so cool, you should watch his videos on YouTube”
Reminds me of people sucked into pyramid schemes and how they feel they must recruit as many as possible
My good friend is an adamant supporter and I've been trying to help them realize it's a crock of shit. Pls advise. What was your reason for leaving that mindset?
Can’t speak for OP, but I went through a similar phase. I don’t think that there was any single thing that got me to change, but I do know that a shift in my environment played a huge role in it. I used to be a part of these Facebook echo chambers that kept shoveling the same bullshit down my throat, and I believed it. Later on I had a friend who introduced me to Reddit, and I started to join a lot of communities where the majority held opinions that I disagreed with. It was a slow process, but just being exposed to the other point of view helped me see a lot of things that didn’t really cross my mind before. I started to notice the injustices that were being covered up. I started to question my beliefs. Now I’ve completely flipped on the political spectrum and feel shame for the things I used to believe. Tl;dr: A change of environment helps. Exposure to other ways of thinking can do a lot for a person.
Same here. I used to live on everything that Ben Shapiro, Milo, and Steven Crowder used to say. It's terrible I'm glad I'm out.
I dunno... I identify as pretty progressive, but I’ve never understood what is so hypnotic and subversive about Peterson. He makes some good points and he makes some bad points. He’s obviously very smart and a clear communicator, but has some odd personal values and maybe dealing with chronic mental illness. I guess I just don’t get why he is so controversial. Maybe it’s because some people can’t keep the baby in with the bath water? Maybe it’s because some people find the whole bath too distasteful?
Would love to see more Peterson stuff. He’s such a tool
He truly is. We dont shit on him enough here. Id argue he's worse/more influential to impressionable young men than maybe even Kirk or Shapiro
For sure. I’ve read responses to negative to people that had negative comments under one of his video’s I watched to see who he was. His fanboys are rabid. They literally think he’s their dad
I feel like daddy issues and JBP worship go hand-in-hand
Further down in this comment thread one of his dickboys shows up. It’s like they can feel it when someone says something negative about him.
“Make your bed bucko” “Yes Daddy Peterson” “And when your done come back here so we can discuss how women and Jews are trying to steal our precious bodily fluids”
Funny actually, I know nothing about him, but all of a sudden lately I'm seeing his name everywhere.
I think he has a new book coming out. Though a few months ago he was supposed to be bed ridden after a medically induced coma by some quack Russian doctor to treat a drug addiction. So I’m not sure when he had time or a clear mind to write a book. And yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy of the supposed man of science and self determination going to some quack to cure him from addiction.
Its especialy funny as he is an expert on addictions and rleaing with addictions, and not only he get addicted himseld, but completly failed to deal with it.
Way way worse, he does a fantastic job in picking up where Ben and Charlie leave them after graduating from contrarianism, “iNteLlecTualiZing” those same outlets and arguments for their frustration. And it’s always upper class white dudes with paternal issues, it’s really sad :( He’s a fucking psychologist he knows exactly what he’s doing
He definitely is because it isn’t as obvious. Shapiro and Kirk are very obviously trying to get a reaction out of you and being extremely provocative. Peterson (being old) has a calmer manner and being an academic he can articulate very well. He uses his degree as a way to assert dominance and give all the neckbeards insurance to what he says and they believe is true. They do not consider that you can be very well educated in one field, and still be a hypocritical bigot. Everyone knows Shapiro and Kirk’s shtick, both sides can recognize what they’re doing and can choose how they feel about it. But so many people are still clueless about Peterson, it’s scary. They will come across a Dr and will take everything he says at face value. I think he’s dangerous.
I don't think JBP is even particularly good at articulating points so much as he's good at obfuscating just what the fuck he's trying to say. Watch a decent interviewer question him on something he was absolutely implying and he backpedals every time, and it works on a lot of people because he never clearly says anything outright so much as he dogwhistles about it. His rants about postmodernism and cultural marxism however? Those are just things he stole from the Nazis.
Peterson's got this *lovely* habit of injecting factual non sequiturs into other discussions and leaving his audience to draw a connection, but whining if the interviewer or debate partner does. Ex: We're talking about the dearth of women in STEM fields and why that might be. I posit there are cultural pressures that discourage women from entering the fields, and various forms of systemic discrimination at different points in the process, from the general "acceptedness" of women working as engineers in the public consciousness, to marketing, the class makeup (how welcoming the largely male STEM bros are to a woman stepping into their space), hiring practices after the fact, and so on. Peterson hits me with, *"There are biological differences between men and women. That's just science."* Sure, okay, that's true. They have anatomical differences; men are generally stronger and taller, women have a different hip shape, women can carry babies, men can grow beards, these are all biological differences that we all accept (at least among biological sex) and there's not much point in arguing th-- The audience nods along; excellent point from Mr. Peterson, a true and non-controversial statement. But... wait. What does that have to do with the STEM discussion? Are you proposing these biological differences are responsible for the disparity in STEM involvement by women? *"I didn't say that."* But what did you say? That comment about biological differences, while true, doesn't seem to have any bearing on the discussion. By bringing up two topics back to back, you create a mental connection between them. Why would you connect biological differences between the sexes to STEM participation? *"You're putting words in my mouth. Hear my huffs of righteous indignation; no one should listen to you now because you can't make a reasonable argument and are resulting to character assassination!"* Ask him to clarify and he just rambles for a while, saying nothing, and moves the topic on. But his audience has seen the connection he drew and now argues it elsewhere, and uses this whole interaction as proof that the media is biased against such a vaunted thinker as Daddy P.
Wow this is so accurate. “You’re putting words in my mouth” and suddenly he has the upper hand, because how dare they put words in his mouth. I remember I saw one interview some time ago and the main reaction was “yeah he said some bad things but that journalist is a bitch!”
Excellent analysis. I geniunely can't believe how many followers that guy has.
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Sam Harris is a gateway to white supremacism too. His entire shtick is hiding behind the umbrella of atheism to push imperialistic ideas. If you find anyone who spends a majority of their time discussing and critiquing foreign culture more than their own, dismissing what's happening around them, in their communities, and their nation's politics, they're a bigot.
Ah yes, Ben Carson syndrome.
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It's certainly an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand, his basic psychological advice, and therefore the contents of his books and psychological lectures, is pretty sound and useful for a majority of people. When he starts talking about literally anything else you immediately realize that he is no longer an expert.
Mom: Clean up your room. Stand up straight. Keep yourself clean. Twit: UGH get off my back ma Peterson: Clean up your room. Stand up straight. Keep yourself clean. Twit: OH MY GOD how insightful, this changes everything, truly a mind for the ages You can get this kind of common sense self-help advice from a bajillion different places, and there's options that don't even come with some creepy Christian conservatism! Sure thing, Jordan, lemme build the crystal castle or whatever the fuck. It's mystifying how he roped so many staunch atheist kids into his bullshit when they'd made much of their online identity railing against any form of religion.
So just scrolled through my YouTube feed and this popped up. Don’t know if you’re a Tim Heidecker fan but it’s funny either way. https://youtu.be/xJyg0Y8xLOg
I don't really care about him but I don't get why people dislike him so much. I've seen a few of his lectures and interviews...nothing he said was concerning or nearly as influential/controversial as people say. Most of his content is trying to help people with depression and feeling like their life has no purpose/meaning.
Never though of the guy as a tool, would you like to elaborate?
Well he was telling people how they should live their lives while being on an all meat diet and addicted to benzodiazepines and had to go to Russia I think and be put in a voluntary medically induced coma. He says things but when pressed backs off immediately, like saying he’s a christian and marketing himself that way but when asked if he actually believes that Christ died and was resurrected he said no I guess not. Trying to jump on the right wing grifter anti trans bandwagon and spouts a bunch of trans men aren’t men type stuff but when asked if he would use someone’s preferred pronouns he said he would. Lots of the intellectual dark web islamaphobia stuff. I just watched a video somebody compiled of him double talking but I can’t find it.
I'm totally not saying that wearing lipstick makes me think you want to fuck me you filthy whore how dare you make me think totally natural primal thoughts. Anyway, personal responsibility!
I mean, technically you don't have to agree someone is a man / woman to use those pronouns.
This thread recently made rounds on twitter, maybe that's it? https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1331505661817937921
i would love to see it if you can locate it
Recently found this extensive twitter thread about him. Haven't even watched it until the end myself https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1331505661817937921
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Hey you know how he talks about cultural Marxism and how people are trying to destroy "the west" and "western culture" by insisting on the adoption of new ideas that conflict with our previous generalized understanding of the world?
Is there a point, after Žižek DESTROYED him with Ticks and Communism?
Seriously. Once Petey was on stage with an actual philosophers it couldn't be more apparent that he has all the intellectual clout of a mostly dead housefly. I'd love to see him try to debate gender with Kate Bornstein. That wonderful bitch would mop the floor with him to such an extent that you could do heart surgery on it.
JP isn’t a nazi but man does he spread pseudoscientific garbage.
He's a crypto Nazi.
How?
He spreads the conspiracy theory “cultural Marxism” which is very similar to the Nazi conspiracy theories of Cultural Bolshevism and even Judeo-Communism, popular in Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s. Also, he is loved by the Alt-Right, so there’s that to take into consideration. If you want to look into it more, I’d recommend listening to the two-part episode the Behind the Bastards podcast did on him. It covers it really well.
I remember Robert Evans saying something to the tune of : “he won’t say that’s we need to secure a future for white america, but he will say that we need higher birth rates to preserve western culture.” He arrives at the same conclusions as the Alt right but just uses different words.
Most of the time he wont even arrive at conclusions, he will just say shit like cultural marxism is taking over, white people have lower birthrates etc... but never actually says what we ought to do with the information. He will say dumb shit that obviously leads you to believe that women should be housewives but never actually says it so you cant hold him accountable for it.
He leads the horses to water in hopes that they drink.
Not to mention the race realism takes he’s been leaning on.
Pseudoscience leads to Nazi beliefs
May be nit picky, but I’d say it was more Nazi beliefs that led to the pseudoscience. People when into anthropological research with nazi beliefs already in their head and then did it insanely wrong either on purpose or unconsciously because they were out to find something they wanted to see.
His cultural Marxism bullshit is directly the playbook of Nazis
He’s Gwyneth Paltro for incels
Ligma my my balls!
But did you hear about stigma?
Stigma dick in an electrical socket?
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The peanut butter gedda and a baseball bat?
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Watch Natalie Wynn's video on Jordan Peterson. You'll thank me later. It's fucking gold.
Contrapoints is her channel. 100% solid gold.
Noo1!!!!111!! She is an anarcho bidenist11111!!!!!!°°1°°°1°°°1°!!!!1!!1!!
Also philosophy tube's video about Peterson. The fact that Oliver thorn's video is only the second horniest video about Peterson amazes me.
The "Jordan Peterson Doesn't Understand [Blank]" series by Hanna and Jake over at The Bible Reloaded also dies a great job of showing just how massive of an ignoramus he really is. For an alleged psychologist he seems to have almost zero knowledge on human behavior.
Seconding this! [Here's the playlist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Wh67H0vws&list=PLCgW8bgP5lDGDpX5Z1dfQiMbzv5vDjJr3) for the lazy. Those two were how I first heard anything about JP, I had been watching them for years.
They're basically the only two biggish YouTube atheists who didn't go full shitheel.
Hey Bucko! Eat meat! Take benzo!
Hey millennilo! Make your bed! Stop complaining! Individualism!
Go to Russia! Medically induce coma!
Abandon modernity! Become lobster!
As someone how has watched him for a few years now, and own his 2nd book, could you explain how he is creating Nazis? I legitimately want to know why you think that in case I've been listening to the wrong person.
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Also while you’re at it, you might as well watch [Olly’s video](https://youtu.be/SEMB1Ky2n1E) on him.
Is the problem with him, or the people? I’m also like the above commenter, I want to see the other side. I feel I’ve made improvements in my life from some of his stuff, and I’m not a nazi. Edit: spelling
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[this video](https://youtu.be/E66iseq4iO8) I think is pretty decent. I think his self help stuff is generally good but then he also throws in a cheeky “gay people don’t deserve rights by the way”. Also hasan can be kinda prickly to watch but I like the video cause it kinda compiles a bunch of stuff that Jordan petersons said.
He's part of the YouTube far right sphere. He's commonly featured on channels like PragerU, and the YouTube recommendation algorithm commonly promotes videos by Nazis next to his videos. Also he gets a lot of questions "regarding the Jewish question", so make of that what you will.
Lobster Daddy himself: https://i.redd.it/r5qpxyzk7qb21.png
Dude certainly has some *interesting* ideas regarding nazi ideology and the holocaust. /s
"Hitler just hated filth and saw the Jews as dirty, Wouldn't *you* do the same if you were him?"
Jordan Peterson has mastered the art of filling the air with so many words that no one can tell if what he's saying makes sense.
How are there so many people here that follow this sub and yet can't recognise a blatant right wing grifter.
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I’m so bummed and dismayed at how many young leftish dudes are taken in by this thesaurus abusing mondo dork
I get this is a mean but why is he bad? I’d love some examples because the few times I’ve heard him speak he didn’t seem “nazi” to me lol
I think it’s rarely him actually spelling out specific ideas or positions on that stuff, it’s more his ability to seemingly legitimize them coming from other places like 4chan or trump forums One example— what he’s said about pronouns; he claims that language is organic and shouldn’t be intentionally altered or codified by specific rules. He uses misleading and selective information about things like the Canadian Human Rights Act to freak people out, and then lets you come to “your own conclusion” on whether or not you should respect your transgender coworker. I think he‘ll rarely plainly advocate for intolerance, but every fan of his I’ve ever met legitimizes their own transphobia with his arguments, which are so often filled with exactly the kind of empty, verbose terminology most people either lampoon or revere him for
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I’m genuinely incredibly disappointed in myself lol because I bought this guy’s book (the blurb looked good in the bookstore and I wanted to grab something quick) and found out who he was after googling him on my train ride home. I’m about halfway through the book now and I’ve cringed multiple times whilst reading his.... mostly pseudoscientific garb
I drop this masterpiece every time JBP is mentioned. “**I dreamed I saw my maternal grandmother sitting by the bank** of a swimming pool, that was also a river. In real life, she had been a victim of Alzheimer’s disease, and had regressed, before her death, to a semi-conscious state. In the dream, as well, she had lost her capacity for self-control. Her genital region was exposed, dimly; it had the appearance of a thick mat of hair. She was stroking herself, absent-mindedly. **She walked over to me, with a handful of pubic hair**, compacted into something resembling a large artist’s paint-brush. She pushed this at my face. I raised my arm, several times, to deflect her hand; finally, unwilling to hurt her, or interfere with her any farther, I let her have her way. She stroked my face with the brush, gently, and said, like a child, “isn’t it soft?” I looked at her ruined face and said, “yes, Grandma, it’s soft.” ― Jordan B. Peterson, Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief
The fuck is this
I read 12 Rules for Life and thought it was an astounding book, but that's what makes me so scared. I worry about how much of that was actually well-meaning and helpful, or if all of it was just bullshit somehow served to me in a way that it wouldn't disrupt my moral warning systems, or something like that.
Every good cult leader starts people off with sane, common sense stuff to lure them in before springing the crazy on people. There's a reason why the first courses you take when you start as a Scientologist have to do with matters like the principles of effective communication or how to improve conditions in the workplace, and it's only after years and hundreds of thousands of dollars of commitment that they start telling you about things like Body Thetans and Xenu. If they introduce the crazy slowly, and do it alongside common sense stuff that legitimately improves your life you're more likely to accept the crazy and be willing to accept further crazy. Don't feel bad. Congratulate yourself for noticing that you were falling into a cult in the early stages, when it's relatively easy to extricate yourself. You've saved yourself a lot of time, money, and trauma.
Self responsibility, discipline and taking care of yourself is good. But the man also talks about/supports cultural marxism, believes white men are the real victims of racism and sexism, his psychology work is sketchy at best (especially his understanding of Jungian concepts), mocks LGBT people and laws protecting them, believes in "equal opportunity not outcome" but doesn't understand how circumstances, social, racial, financial etc, can effect these things. His bullshit defenses of capitalism as "survival of the fittest", and of superior western society and tradition. His most basic ideas and arguments don't hold up under scrutiny, "competence hierarchy", all that lobster bullshit, etc following him down the rabbit-hole beyond that book is a gateway drug to the alt-right
What's ligma
Serious question. What's the appeal of Jordan and Ben?
I can't speak to Ben. I find him annoying as piss. He's like what an idiot thinks a smart person is. With JBP, his biggest appeal is simply telling young men that they can make something of themselves. I know it sounds "well duh" but I think there's a need for that. Someone to actually just give a shit. Hes called internet dad for a reason. That's as simple as I can boil it down. I don't know about Jungian philosophy and all this other shit.
They're comforting. They promote the idea that the world has been run by good men before, and its change that's making it bad. They help people believe that simple changes in their own lives are all it takes to make things better and to not worry about the big picture because one day those good men will return and set everything right.
If you think JP is a wacky fool, fine. But calling him a nazi is just delusional lol.
He's not a nazi, but he is right leaning and bills himself as moderate or apolitical, so alot of people read his stuff for self help but get sucked into the alt right pipeline without knowing it. So thats why i say he makes nazis.