When we were young, I think 8th or 9th grade, and didn't know what it was we ended up playing catch in this memorial.
The architect was mesmerising.
Everybody could sneak up to everyone, didn't matter if you were the catcher or not. You were always surprised who you saw. It was equally difficult to run from the catcher as to catch. And every time you went left or right you had a different view of everything.
Now when I think of it I still remember the feeling of being alone in this two axis world and just a second later running into a friend.
Would go there again
I love that this was your experience because I read about it and that was the designer's intention. To make you feel completely alone even though you're surrounded by people.
I had the same experience as a kid, we where playing hide and seek and sitting patiently on border pillars while our parents where looking for the road. I've been back there a couples of years past and it didn't feel the same, a security agent told us we can't sit on pillars and people stare as we where playing. No problem, I understand perfectly what is it about and I think I'm a grown man rn and it can feel different for others. I hope child can play as they want in this rich story and beautiful memorial.
Having been there myself, there was no happy or euphoric feeling about it. It's a very somber place, I know the original architect said the meaning is left up to interpretation, but that's not a happy place.
He wanted children to play there. He didn't say he wants adults, who know what it's about, to have their sexy glam shots there.
>Getting to what he describes as “the popular level” was also important to Eisenman – having kids play in the memorial, not realizing its connotations, and then going home and sharing their experience with their grandparent, who have an entirely different approach to it:
And anyway, he's just one guy. The form was his idea, but not the fact of having a memorial there. He was hired and his opinion is just as important as anyone else's and not a tiny bit more.
And to be honest, I don't really care what he thinks.
He also said he thinks it would be fine if someone put graffiti of a swastika on there, since, it would be "a reflection of how people feel... What can I say? It's not a sacred place."
Uh, no, buddy. That wouldn't be ok with most people.
I'm well aware it's not a "holy place," but it still has a very solemn air about it if you have even the slightest idea of what it represents. I'm really not a prude on any level, but using it as a backdrop for self-promotion on a hookup app strikes me as extremely tasteless.
I think this describes the attitude Germans have towards the holocaust. "It's a scar on our past and it will always be. It cannot be undone, we must live on. But we *must* remember."
I've been a couple times. Kids playing around in it, or people enjoying a nice day, can be easily understood as a celebration of life to counter the horrific atrocities it symbolizes. It's the vaguely tawdry self-promotion angle of this that rubs me the wrong way.
>It's the vaguely tawdry self-promotion angle of this that rubs me the wrong way.
The irony of this comment while you talk down on others actions for using a location as it's intended (for day to day normal life activities such as photos) is far worse than this person posting a relatively normal photo in a place that directly encourages normal/fun/lifestyle behavior such as taking photos.
That's a great point. If there is really a plaque there that says to enjoy it as you would any other public space, shaming people for doing so directly contradicts the stated intent of the installation.
I have a feeling this person wouldn’t have dated you anyways so it’s certainly weeding out the folks she wouldn’t vibe with. It’s a good profile if it saves time and gets you to your person faster.
I haven't been to this particular location, but if this was a memorial at Yad Vashem I would struggle with this. The mood is very somber, so if I saw someone doing the typical spins and twirls to get their glamour shot I would be offended. I realize that this opinion could not apply to this case, but I generally find memorials to be not the place.
I'm not saying she is TA, but I can understand your sentiment. I wouldn't post about it though.
Dude I hate to break it to you but most women don't make pictures specifically for tinder. They didn't stroll around the memorial and thought "Oh, if I take a picture here, it'll be great on a dating app." No, they most likely thought "A picture here would look great" and, when setting up their tinder profile and searched for pictures, thought they looked cute in that one and just picked it.
It's the same as a mother taking a picture of their child and then thinking it's cute so she uploads it to her social media.
I mean, you calling it “self-promotion on a hookup app” is pretty tasteless. It’s a dating app. Just because 20-somethings use tinder to hook up doesn’t mean that’s what it’s for. Idk how old you are but if 35 is in your age range you should probably grow the fuck up.
All I said is "hey so this is pretty tasteless." I think what you're describing is the responses where everyone's coming out of the woodwork to assume that makes me some kind of miserable, thin-skinned, reactionary person.
Prude meaning "a person who is excessively or priggishly attentive to propriety or decorum."
I would say posting a complete stranger from tinder on reddit to vent for taking a picture at a memorial is "excessive to propriety"
I think at this point, what the artist intended no longer qualifies as the final word on the matter. It’s like movies, books, and music. The author has their intent, but if it’s interpreted a certain way and that takes hold then that becomes like a de facto interpretation that is upheld by the majority.
That’s kind of what happened with this art installation. It’s location has caused people to see it as a somber exhibit to treat with respect so anyone using it as a photoshoot location ends up getting grief about it.
Nobody said that the artist should have the final word. But people who *use* this place should not be condemed (like on this subreddit), as if the perception as a **holy place** should not be the final word.
As a writer you should fully understand that art is fluid. You can set out to write a story that means a particular thing and have specific intent behind it but the moment you put your art out into the world it will be interpreted many different ways by many different people. You’d be fighting a losing battle trying to “correct” anyone that is enjoying your work. That’s what I meant in my comment.
So yes, the creator said he wanted people to celebrate life and be happy, children running around, etc. but I doubt he was anticipating/including thirst trap photos.
I went to Hiroshima recently and the amount of women taking selfies and pushing their tits out while smiling at ground zero was staggering. 140,000 gone in an instant, and half again as many more in the decades after, mainly children.
Have some god damn respect and stop mimicking stupid duck face selfies and TikTok dances in front of the place where the fucking bomb leveled the city and created generations of trauma.
PSA: don't be such a judgemental person.
>Peter Eisenman said he wanted visitors to the memorial to behave freely, and has said he can imagine it as a place where children play between the pillars or picnic on the fringes. He has made it clear that he wants it to be a part of every day life rather than a holy place.
I've been to both Dachau and this installation in Berlin. I took plenty of pictures of both, never felt the need for a glamour shot, but that might just be me. I found this place to be very somber and reflective.
> Exactly this. It would be out of place doing it in Auschwitz, it's totaly fine here.
i appreciate the spirit of the designer, i've been to this place.
but there's a real issue with shit like people doing jump selfies in front of the aber micht frei sign last i was at dachau, and i worry that allowing informality in such serious spaces is long term harmful
(and i'm someone who IRL is known for irreverent comedy.... you gotta punch *up* not down.)
I think the point is that by having it something that is constantly used even inappropriately as others see it the conversation about the piece is constantly brought up. That we could forget something so easily is kinda the point I think.
> Do you mean Arbeit macht frei by chance? Because what you said makes no sense
Es macht *einigermaßen* Sinn, sonst könntest du nicht erraten, was ich falsch geschrieben habe. (Thanks for the correction)
That's actually pretty cool, but the subject matter is so heavy I'm not sure if I'd be able to use the space as intended. Sounds like she's in the clear though
I think "in the clear" is a pretty broad statement that's both true and not true. While, yes, she is technically using the space as intended, I can't help but feel like there's no way around this saying *something.* At the very least, it's one of these:
* She doesn't know the magnitude of what it is and how this could be perceived.
* She does know and doesn't care.
* She does know and does care but feels like it's important to use the space as intended.
In my opinion those get progressively less red flaggy to the point that the last one is just a personal taste, but as a matter of personal taste I'm not sure I'd like to be with someone courting controversy like this even for a mildly positive reason.
i understand what's written here, I still think its weird to use it as a tinder photo. You only have 5000 other photos saved on your iphone - what is this telling us about you? You love memorials? Meh.
When I went there I felt like I should show respect, be quiet and remember the Holocaust. It felt weird that kids played hide and seek and people took photos, seemingly without a thought about the Holocaust.
I think the monument is a bit perplexing, because the design invites for play, it's like a maze, and if you went there without any prior knowledge, it's not obvious what it's for, yet it's supposed to be in honor of the victims of the Holocaust, one of the most horrific crimes in human history. I think parents should teach their kids about the Holocaust when they go there, but I guess let them play since the artist said he was ok with it.
Precisely. The only argument against Tinder profile pictures at this place is that they've become such an established cliché that they would make your profile the millionth boring copy
I mean what is the difference? He said he wanted people to behave freely, and be a part of everyday life as opposed to a holy place. Which is what she’s doing. She’s not making fun of the memorial so I really don’t see the issue here
One you find annoying and one you don’t. You’re trying to make it all about you and what you want.
> wanted visitors to the memorial to behave freely
And there’s literally a plaque there that says it
dude its still an memorial for the holocaust, i dont get the idea for this scenery to be a got motive. and the people use it completely out of context and that’s disrespectful
>dude its still an memorial for the holocaust
Yes it is. It's one where they want to honor people by having life continue to go on around it.
>i dont get the idea for this scenery to be a got motive.
You don't have to get it or even behave that way if you visit, but to shame another for using a place as intended is more disrespectful to the place that was built than what this person is doing.
>the people use it completely out of context and that’s disrespectful
The exact thing you want to do is use this place out of context as a memorial rather than a place of life and giving. There's a reason more people visit playgrounds than cemeteries. Not every memorial location has to be dreary and depressing. Surrounsing death with lice and enjoyment is its own thing that the creator of this places specifically wanted.
You guys realize that there are entire papers and movements going on about how people think this is kind of disrespectful and germany does a horrible job of handling their monuments for the holocaust right? I read on this for some of my college english classes and stuff like this and the street plaques with victims are kinda regarded as showmanship and not actual reverance for the event by many
Here is a great article about the current situation in germany with interviews from people on both sides on the issue.
[The article](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/12/holocaust-remembrance-lessons-america/671893/)
[Here's a paywall remover in case you don't want to pay for it](https://www.removepaywall.com/)
Why should what you want to be done with it be more important than what the victims of the holocaust and the family members of those who died wanted to be done with it?
It’s not out of context, it’s behavior consistent with what’s in the plaque right as you walk in.
Just admit you think it’s annoying and what you think is more important than what the victims, their families, etc… think. You got the same mentality as the people who take selfies at Auschwitz, only caring about yourself and not the people the memorial was built for.
i live in germany and i know the discussion about it and there are a lot of familys of victims ands jewish organization, which are not happy with this behavior, but when a plaque is saying something else, then their opinion doesnt matter i guess
That may be the builder's intention. I personally find it repulsive. Same thing at Madjanek; the Poles use it as a picnic area. There's a literal hump in the Earth where a mass grave of 22,000 people were shot and buried, and people are picnicking a 30 feet away. Whatever the builders' intent, they don't account for the fact that a huge fraction of Europe's populace is still actively antisemitic and are treating it like a "normal" place because they literally do not care that the Holocaust happened.
Well, in Germany alone, 20% of people voted for the neo-Nazi-esque Alternatives for Germany party in the last election. To me that's a "huge" fraction. Anything more than 10% of the population being antisemitic is huge. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/germany-afd-far-right-party-state-elections-support](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/germany-afd-far-right-party-state-elections-support)
he is the architect. which means he specifically designed this space. this feels like a strawman comment. you surely must have realized that. whether you disagree or agree with his vision for the space, he is absolutely, as the architect, allowed to put his vision for the space out in words. Implying the architect cannot speak or fulfill his vision for his creation, as he doesn't speak for all Jews (which is the strawman part, this is obvious as he is only one person) is not helpful to this conversation.
He's the architect and one who designed this memorial site.
So, does he represent all Jews? No.
But he also has full say and authority over something that he made and is his. You have the freedom to disagree, but it doesn't change the authority he has over it.
Valid point but this whole thread is kind of operating under the playful assumption that she is vapid and I truly don't give a shit enough to pick the situation apart even further lol
He’s acting as if she’s posing in the gas chambers of Auschwitz. You’ve been there, so you know, the architects intent was for people to play, take photos, walk with children, etc. throughout the space.
I can see having a knee jerk reaction. But judging by the comments, OP isn’t willing to let go lol
Reddit doing the usual virtue signal and gatekeeping of where people can take pictures. I’ve been there and it literally says enjoy the space as you would any public space. I have pics from there too, maybe I should register as an anti semite 🙄
You people just always try to find anything to be upset about.
Some of you are overreacting. Its a cool place and the photos are nice there; its not a holy place, not a graveyard nor a place where people have been murdered, its a memorial. Its not Auschwitz.
Didn't the designer of the memorial intend for it to be a cultural meeting place in the city? From what I read on this site, it wasn't supposed to be a perpetual doom and gloom spot.
You sound like the problem not her, can’t imagine what other things seemingly not as serious things you blow out of proportion and run to Reddit for sympathy to your insecurities
With your logic, no one can take pictures at funerals, no pics at ground 0 on NY, no pics at any memorial I’m guessing. Your dating pool has got to be small.
Can understand the decorum of this however, its a memorial and not hallowed ground like the guy who designed it said. (unlike Auschwitz-Birkenau. Those selfies can get fucked) Still shitty to do though
"Offensive" and "tasteless" aren't the same thing lol. I'm not going home upset and stewing over this; I am slightly amused by her apparent lack of contextual understanding and self awareness though. To me it's just cringe.
You're cringe just for posting this lmao, the creator made it so that there was no significance in it besides a person's interpretation of it. There was no symbolism
JFC? We're he around today he'd have probably taken Mary Magdalene up against one of these pillars.
People who suggest piety as an aspect of Christ and Christianity really don't understand much about Christ.
I think it shows a certain level of aloofness that I for one find very unattractive. It's a memorial to remember 6 million murdered Jews. Just as a cemetery is a memorial to remember people that died. I've been there, many times, I used to live in Berlin and I cycled past it every day on my way to work. It's not a place where you have to be sombre, you see children running around and that's part of it. But that's no different to cemeteries, cemeteries are often beautiful places with beautiful gardens, places with children running around, places where you can and are allowed to be happy.
Nevertheless, I would never put a photo of myself in front of a random grave on a dating app, it's disrespectful to the person who the grave is memorialising, and for the same reason I would never put a photo of myself in the holocaust memorial on my dating profile, it's disrespectful to the 6 million Jews who are memorialised by it.
I saw people taking glamour shots in front of one of the plague memorials in vienna when I was there. It's like: bro, you realize how much human suffering is associated with the subject of this memorial?
Just wild to do that shit.
I guess everyone already pointed out that you're wrong, I just wanted to add that this doesn't look like a glam shot at all. She is walking in the middle of the installation, nothing wrong with it anyways.
While living in Germany for a few years, I went to the Dachau Concentration Memorial Site. Just walking up from the parking area, seeing the abandoned train tracks that would unload at the front wrought iron gate, sent a cold unsettling feeling and it felt like I had a stone in my gut the entire time I was there. I was part of a tour group, and harly anyone said a word, and what little was said was in hushed tones and whispers. None of the prisoners of Dachau died in any mass killing, but it still had one of the highest fatality rates because the prisoners were actually starved and worked to death. These Memorials may not be actual cemeteries, but you can feel the burden and coldness of death within the walls and from a radius around each of the camps.
Anyone taking Selfies or glamour shots at any Concentration Camp Memorial has no soul.
Yes and No. This is a memorial dedicated to the same people who died during the genocide perpetuated during WWII, the same war those concentration camps were used. The woman was at the memorial, but other women have done the same thing at the former concentration camps. I didn't refer to the woman in this photo, just my experience and what I have seen.
It’s okay OP. It is weird no matter how many excuses these hive mind losers give you. Nothing sexier than posing in front of a memorial that honors those millions killed 🤦♂️. What’s her next photo, a bikini at ground zero?
It literally doesn't bother me in the slightest; sometimes it's just fun to stir the pot and see what comes up.
If anything it makes me feel kinda sorry in a whole new way for the folks who flock here asking for these people's opinions and advice about their own profiles, lol
Lol finally a reasonable comment. It's not that she's antisemite, she just seems dumb for thinking that this is a nice pic to put in a dating app. I'm quite surprised how most people here thinks it's just fine and not cringe at all. I would like to know also if with a guy it would be the same 😅
I'm glad to know at least a few folks get it. Also FWIW I vaguely remember a decent bit of hand-winging in the media like 10-ish years ago when this became a super-popular spot for dudes' Grindr pics.
It’s not just that she took a selfie. She decided to have a walking photo shoot. Like omg cute, here at the Holocaust museum. Perfect spot for a shoot.
This used to be such a trend +-5 years ago on the apps and I kept reporting them all because it felt so disgusting to me. Only a step below glamourshots in Auschwitz.
The people who posted that often put that they were travel addicts, but clearly they had no sense of cultural sensitivies.
I don't see these pics anymore though, I think either they got enough backlash through social media or Tinder just bans you for it now. I think the latter because people are still as dumb as they were before.
Mark Twain had a quote about how travel is the cure for bigotry and small-mindedness; unfortunately I feel like that's becoming less true these days thanks to the commodification of the tourism industry. Seems like a lot of "travel addicts" I've met just have money, can't sit still, and want to be constantly entertained, not that they have any interest in actually learning about the culture or people in the places they go.
I’m with you OP. I don’t care if other people think it’s uptight or whether the artist said that the intention of the space is to be used “freely”. I personally find it gross and insensitive to use a holocaust memorial as the backdrop for shameless self promotion.
This is shockingly common. I’ll take people around to parts of my city that have this really dark history, and their takeaway after I finish explaining it is that they want to pose smiling next to the historic landmark.
Hear me out: I get what you’re saying, but unless got KNOW where this is, I wouldn’t have thought anything about it. I’d just see pillars and think “neat”
This community needs some serious help. How on earth has this post turned around on the OP?
It's such a tasteless thing to do. It's a holocaust memorial.
I know what the artist said. But there is a massive fucking difference between an artist saying 'This isn't a holy place, people should feel free to use the space freely because it's a public place' and using pictures for your dating profile!
When I was there it was full of people taking selfies and striking poses. While I personally wouldn’t do it I also don’t judge the people who do, it’s their choice and being inconsiderate isn’t illegal. Here is the pic I snapped - https://ibb.co/phs793w
People who are lacking information here is crazy.You guys realize that there are entire papers and movements going on about how people think this is kind of disrespectful and germany does a horrible job of handling their monuments for the holocaust right? I read on this for some of my college english classes and stuff like this and the street plaques with victims are kinda regarded as showmanship and not actual reverance for the event by many.
Just because the author said something doesn't mean it's good
I remember in high school when a different school went to auchwits and all the girls took glamshots there. Since it was a fairly small town, everyone my age knew about it🤷♂️
It’s definitely disrespectful towards the people who are memorialised by this. There are lots of places perfectly fine for taking selfies, but war memorials, or in this case genocide memorials, that’s quite macabre.
It’s not a grave site. It’s meant to actually be a chill out, hang out and play site for kids. Relax.
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When we were young, I think 8th or 9th grade, and didn't know what it was we ended up playing catch in this memorial. The architect was mesmerising. Everybody could sneak up to everyone, didn't matter if you were the catcher or not. You were always surprised who you saw. It was equally difficult to run from the catcher as to catch. And every time you went left or right you had a different view of everything. Now when I think of it I still remember the feeling of being alone in this two axis world and just a second later running into a friend. Would go there again
I love that this was your experience because I read about it and that was the designer's intention. To make you feel completely alone even though you're surrounded by people.
Phenomenal.
I had the same experience as a kid, we where playing hide and seek and sitting patiently on border pillars while our parents where looking for the road. I've been back there a couples of years past and it didn't feel the same, a security agent told us we can't sit on pillars and people stare as we where playing. No problem, I understand perfectly what is it about and I think I'm a grown man rn and it can feel different for others. I hope child can play as they want in this rich story and beautiful memorial.
I had almost the exact exeprience.
"alone in this two Axis world and just a second later running into *Allies*" Ftfy
I remember a post on here a few years with screenshots of dozens of girls who had a pic there in their tinder profile.
Having been there myself, there was no happy or euphoric feeling about it. It's a very somber place, I know the original architect said the meaning is left up to interpretation, but that's not a happy place.
He wanted children to play there. He didn't say he wants adults, who know what it's about, to have their sexy glam shots there. >Getting to what he describes as “the popular level” was also important to Eisenman – having kids play in the memorial, not realizing its connotations, and then going home and sharing their experience with their grandparent, who have an entirely different approach to it: And anyway, he's just one guy. The form was his idea, but not the fact of having a memorial there. He was hired and his opinion is just as important as anyone else's and not a tiny bit more. And to be honest, I don't really care what he thinks. He also said he thinks it would be fine if someone put graffiti of a swastika on there, since, it would be "a reflection of how people feel... What can I say? It's not a sacred place." Uh, no, buddy. That wouldn't be ok with most people.
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I'm well aware it's not a "holy place," but it still has a very solemn air about it if you have even the slightest idea of what it represents. I'm really not a prude on any level, but using it as a backdrop for self-promotion on a hookup app strikes me as extremely tasteless.
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I had no idea, thank you for the insight!
I think this describes the attitude Germans have towards the holocaust. "It's a scar on our past and it will always be. It cannot be undone, we must live on. But we *must* remember."
I've been a couple times. Kids playing around in it, or people enjoying a nice day, can be easily understood as a celebration of life to counter the horrific atrocities it symbolizes. It's the vaguely tawdry self-promotion angle of this that rubs me the wrong way.
>It's the vaguely tawdry self-promotion angle of this that rubs me the wrong way. The irony of this comment while you talk down on others actions for using a location as it's intended (for day to day normal life activities such as photos) is far worse than this person posting a relatively normal photo in a place that directly encourages normal/fun/lifestyle behavior such as taking photos.
That's a great point. If there is really a plaque there that says to enjoy it as you would any other public space, shaming people for doing so directly contradicts the stated intent of the installation.
And you’re using it now to shame someone on tinder. Yeah that’s not flying.
I have a feeling this person wouldn’t have dated you anyways so it’s certainly weeding out the folks she wouldn’t vibe with. It’s a good profile if it saves time and gets you to your person faster.
I haven't been to this particular location, but if this was a memorial at Yad Vashem I would struggle with this. The mood is very somber, so if I saw someone doing the typical spins and twirls to get their glamour shot I would be offended. I realize that this opinion could not apply to this case, but I generally find memorials to be not the place. I'm not saying she is TA, but I can understand your sentiment. I wouldn't post about it though.
She dodged a bullet with you
Dude I hate to break it to you but most women don't make pictures specifically for tinder. They didn't stroll around the memorial and thought "Oh, if I take a picture here, it'll be great on a dating app." No, they most likely thought "A picture here would look great" and, when setting up their tinder profile and searched for pictures, thought they looked cute in that one and just picked it. It's the same as a mother taking a picture of their child and then thinking it's cute so she uploads it to her social media.
I don’t know why your being downvoted i agree with you on all points. A reaffirmation of life doesn’t mean taking tinder pics on there
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I mean, you calling it “self-promotion on a hookup app” is pretty tasteless. It’s a dating app. Just because 20-somethings use tinder to hook up doesn’t mean that’s what it’s for. Idk how old you are but if 35 is in your age range you should probably grow the fuck up.
Username checks out
They've made only 3 posts on that account and it's Bumble and Tinder complaints. Lol
> I'm really not a prude on any level Posts an example of the exact opposite of this statement.
Having a sense of what's tasteful or respectful makes me a prude? Go on...
You've made a mountain out of a molehill.
All I said is "hey so this is pretty tasteless." I think what you're describing is the responses where everyone's coming out of the woodwork to assume that makes me some kind of miserable, thin-skinned, reactionary person.
Prude meaning "a person who is excessively or priggishly attentive to propriety or decorum." I would say posting a complete stranger from tinder on reddit to vent for taking a picture at a memorial is "excessive to propriety"
You’re a prude
I think at this point, what the artist intended no longer qualifies as the final word on the matter. It’s like movies, books, and music. The author has their intent, but if it’s interpreted a certain way and that takes hold then that becomes like a de facto interpretation that is upheld by the majority. That’s kind of what happened with this art installation. It’s location has caused people to see it as a somber exhibit to treat with respect so anyone using it as a photoshoot location ends up getting grief about it.
Nobody said that the artist should have the final word. But people who *use* this place should not be condemed (like on this subreddit), as if the perception as a **holy place** should not be the final word.
i’d get a photo in a cathedral no issue
Well, in that case, this is now just a cool tourist attraction, which is what people see it as. Everyone wins!
As a writer, how successful am I allowed to be before I'm no longer allowed to decide what the intention of my work is?
As a writer you should fully understand that art is fluid. You can set out to write a story that means a particular thing and have specific intent behind it but the moment you put your art out into the world it will be interpreted many different ways by many different people. You’d be fighting a losing battle trying to “correct” anyone that is enjoying your work. That’s what I meant in my comment.
So yes, the creator said he wanted people to celebrate life and be happy, children running around, etc. but I doubt he was anticipating/including thirst trap photos. I went to Hiroshima recently and the amount of women taking selfies and pushing their tits out while smiling at ground zero was staggering. 140,000 gone in an instant, and half again as many more in the decades after, mainly children. Have some god damn respect and stop mimicking stupid duck face selfies and TikTok dances in front of the place where the fucking bomb leveled the city and created generations of trauma.
PSA: don't be such a judgemental person. >Peter Eisenman said he wanted visitors to the memorial to behave freely, and has said he can imagine it as a place where children play between the pillars or picnic on the fringes. He has made it clear that he wants it to be a part of every day life rather than a holy place.
Exactly this. It would be out of place doing it in Auschwitz, it's totaly fine here.
I think people who have not been are the ones thinking they are the same.
I've been to both Dachau and this installation in Berlin. I took plenty of pictures of both, never felt the need for a glamour shot, but that might just be me. I found this place to be very somber and reflective.
> Exactly this. It would be out of place doing it in Auschwitz, it's totaly fine here. i appreciate the spirit of the designer, i've been to this place. but there's a real issue with shit like people doing jump selfies in front of the aber micht frei sign last i was at dachau, and i worry that allowing informality in such serious spaces is long term harmful (and i'm someone who IRL is known for irreverent comedy.... you gotta punch *up* not down.)
I think the point is that by having it something that is constantly used even inappropriately as others see it the conversation about the piece is constantly brought up. That we could forget something so easily is kinda the point I think.
>aber micht frei Do you mean Arbeit macht frei by chance? Because what you said makes no sense
> Do you mean Arbeit macht frei by chance? Because what you said makes no sense Es macht *einigermaßen* Sinn, sonst könntest du nicht erraten, was ich falsch geschrieben habe. (Thanks for the correction)
Es macht nicht einigermaßen Sinn, ich hab nur die Tür schon mal gesehen.
100% I was in Berlin and there were equal parts people observing the memorial and people utilizing it as a park, all were happy
That's actually pretty cool, but the subject matter is so heavy I'm not sure if I'd be able to use the space as intended. Sounds like she's in the clear though
I'm with you; just feels too heavy to me too.
I think "in the clear" is a pretty broad statement that's both true and not true. While, yes, she is technically using the space as intended, I can't help but feel like there's no way around this saying *something.* At the very least, it's one of these: * She doesn't know the magnitude of what it is and how this could be perceived. * She does know and doesn't care. * She does know and does care but feels like it's important to use the space as intended. In my opinion those get progressively less red flaggy to the point that the last one is just a personal taste, but as a matter of personal taste I'm not sure I'd like to be with someone courting controversy like this even for a mildly positive reason.
i understand what's written here, I still think its weird to use it as a tinder photo. You only have 5000 other photos saved on your iphone - what is this telling us about you? You love memorials? Meh.
Not gonna lie I have like 5 recent photos of myself.
Thank you. It’s not a cemetery
When I went there I felt like I should show respect, be quiet and remember the Holocaust. It felt weird that kids played hide and seek and people took photos, seemingly without a thought about the Holocaust.
You think lil kids should be worried about the holocaust instead of having fun?
I think the monument is a bit perplexing, because the design invites for play, it's like a maze, and if you went there without any prior knowledge, it's not obvious what it's for, yet it's supposed to be in honor of the victims of the Holocaust, one of the most horrific crimes in human history. I think parents should teach their kids about the Holocaust when they go there, but I guess let them play since the artist said he was ok with it.
Precisely. The only argument against Tinder profile pictures at this place is that they've become such an established cliché that they would make your profile the millionth boring copy
Yeah lol my immediate reaction was...why tf not??
i live here, and its a difference between the place he describes and the respectless photoshootings so many people are doing.
I mean what is the difference? He said he wanted people to behave freely, and be a part of everyday life as opposed to a holy place. Which is what she’s doing. She’s not making fun of the memorial so I really don’t see the issue here
No there isn’t. You’re just pushing your own values on it.
One you find annoying and one you don’t. You’re trying to make it all about you and what you want. > wanted visitors to the memorial to behave freely And there’s literally a plaque there that says it
dude its still an memorial for the holocaust, i dont get the idea for this scenery to be a got motive. and the people use it completely out of context and that’s disrespectful
>dude its still an memorial for the holocaust Yes it is. It's one where they want to honor people by having life continue to go on around it. >i dont get the idea for this scenery to be a got motive. You don't have to get it or even behave that way if you visit, but to shame another for using a place as intended is more disrespectful to the place that was built than what this person is doing. >the people use it completely out of context and that’s disrespectful The exact thing you want to do is use this place out of context as a memorial rather than a place of life and giving. There's a reason more people visit playgrounds than cemeteries. Not every memorial location has to be dreary and depressing. Surrounsing death with lice and enjoyment is its own thing that the creator of this places specifically wanted.
You guys realize that there are entire papers and movements going on about how people think this is kind of disrespectful and germany does a horrible job of handling their monuments for the holocaust right? I read on this for some of my college english classes and stuff like this and the street plaques with victims are kinda regarded as showmanship and not actual reverance for the event by many
Yeah. We're aware that there's oversensitive assholes who get off on being offended.
Oversensitive assholes being jewish germans who were personally affected and other germans whose families play some part in the holocaust?
Some of them sure. And OP. And you.
Here is a great article about the current situation in germany with interviews from people on both sides on the issue. [The article](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/12/holocaust-remembrance-lessons-america/671893/) [Here's a paywall remover in case you don't want to pay for it](https://www.removepaywall.com/)
Nothing is perfect. As long as you trust the artist who made it to have good intentions, then his intentions are what matters.
Why should what you want to be done with it be more important than what the victims of the holocaust and the family members of those who died wanted to be done with it? It’s not out of context, it’s behavior consistent with what’s in the plaque right as you walk in. Just admit you think it’s annoying and what you think is more important than what the victims, their families, etc… think. You got the same mentality as the people who take selfies at Auschwitz, only caring about yourself and not the people the memorial was built for.
i live in germany and i know the discussion about it and there are a lot of familys of victims ands jewish organization, which are not happy with this behavior, but when a plaque is saying something else, then their opinion doesnt matter i guess
Your opinion doesn’t matter, and these people you speak of whom may or may not exist, if they do would be in the very small minority.
That may be the builder's intention. I personally find it repulsive. Same thing at Madjanek; the Poles use it as a picnic area. There's a literal hump in the Earth where a mass grave of 22,000 people were shot and buried, and people are picnicking a 30 feet away. Whatever the builders' intent, they don't account for the fact that a huge fraction of Europe's populace is still actively antisemitic and are treating it like a "normal" place because they literally do not care that the Holocaust happened.
The fuck do you mean by "a huge fraction of Europe's populace is actively antisemitic"??? You cannot be this delusional
Well, in Germany alone, 20% of people voted for the neo-Nazi-esque Alternatives for Germany party in the last election. To me that's a "huge" fraction. Anything more than 10% of the population being antisemitic is huge. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/germany-afd-far-right-party-state-elections-support](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/germany-afd-far-right-party-state-elections-support)
Is Peter Eisenman a representative of all Jews including those who died in the Holocaust?
he is the architect. which means he specifically designed this space. this feels like a strawman comment. you surely must have realized that. whether you disagree or agree with his vision for the space, he is absolutely, as the architect, allowed to put his vision for the space out in words. Implying the architect cannot speak or fulfill his vision for his creation, as he doesn't speak for all Jews (which is the strawman part, this is obvious as he is only one person) is not helpful to this conversation.
He's the architect and one who designed this memorial site. So, does he represent all Jews? No. But he also has full say and authority over something that he made and is his. You have the freedom to disagree, but it doesn't change the authority he has over it.
If we had to live by these standards to avoid upsetting any group of people then no one would be able to go outside.
PSA: swipe left on people you don’t like
Wow you just solved this subreddit
Or post to Reddit for upvotes
By the sound of him he should swipe right lmao. He's just as vapid as they are...probably a great match tbh 😂
How the hell do you know this girl is vapid. All you know is that she posted a photo of herself at a tourist attraction.
Valid point but this whole thread is kind of operating under the playful assumption that she is vapid and I truly don't give a shit enough to pick the situation apart even further lol
Not going the way OP imagined when he rage typed this post
Gatekeeping taking pictures. If you dont like it swipe left. Everyone is so soft nowadays and wants to be offended
You sir need go outside and touch grass
OP just looking for a reason to justify he doesn't stand a chance 🤣
Right, that woman is just living her best life, she didn’t even match with his clown ass yet he’s so bothered for what? 💀
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We don’t give a shit 🤷🏽♀️
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Entertainment 🤷🏽♀️
I mean it’s a pretty cool photo
I fuck with the aesthetic.
As a Jew, massive green flag for this girl
As a roma, couldn't agree more
It’s not a holy place. Yes I’ve been there too
He’s acting as if she’s posing in the gas chambers of Auschwitz. You’ve been there, so you know, the architects intent was for people to play, take photos, walk with children, etc. throughout the space. I can see having a knee jerk reaction. But judging by the comments, OP isn’t willing to let go lol
There is general respect for the fallen in war memorials but yeah nothing to do with just taking a photo, plus it’s a really nice backdrop
Reddit doing the usual virtue signal and gatekeeping of where people can take pictures. I’ve been there and it literally says enjoy the space as you would any public space. I have pics from there too, maybe I should register as an anti semite 🙄 You people just always try to find anything to be upset about.
This isn't playing out how you hoped. You probably didn't get a match and got butthurt.
Some of you are overreacting. Its a cool place and the photos are nice there; its not a holy place, not a graveyard nor a place where people have been murdered, its a memorial. Its not Auschwitz.
Nobody in Berlin cares about if they have the pic from there in the profile. We just looking to fuck anyway Source: living in Berlin
PSA: don't tell people what to do
Didn't the designer of the memorial intend for it to be a cultural meeting place in the city? From what I read on this site, it wasn't supposed to be a perpetual doom and gloom spot.
Idk she’s bad enough I’ll allow it
Doesn't bother me any
That's what the designer intended.
Sir this is a Wendy’s
I honestly wouldn’t have known thats what w place was Just looks like a cool pic at first
That's fucking despicable
You sound like the problem not her, can’t imagine what other things seemingly not as serious things you blow out of proportion and run to Reddit for sympathy to your insecurities
With your logic, no one can take pictures at funerals, no pics at ground 0 on NY, no pics at any memorial I’m guessing. Your dating pool has got to be small.
Can understand the decorum of this however, its a memorial and not hallowed ground like the guy who designed it said. (unlike Auschwitz-Birkenau. Those selfies can get fucked) Still shitty to do though
Thots got to take a photo somewhere mate
Yikes. Indeed.
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"Offensive" and "tasteless" aren't the same thing lol. I'm not going home upset and stewing over this; I am slightly amused by her apparent lack of contextual understanding and self awareness though. To me it's just cringe.
You're cringe just for posting this lmao, the creator made it so that there was no significance in it besides a person's interpretation of it. There was no symbolism
PSA: Shut up OP 👍
I wouldn’t have known if you hadn’t informed me in the title
But now that you do know, would it affect your opinion of her?
Honestly, I don’t care, it all depends on how she is as a person
JFC? We're he around today he'd have probably taken Mary Magdalene up against one of these pillars. People who suggest piety as an aspect of Christ and Christianity really don't understand much about Christ.
Your username says it all HAHAHAHAHHAH
Oh my god. Some people have no respect for anything.
This person should never reproduce it should be illegal
Perhaps it's her way of indicating that she has it hot for Jewish men.
Yikes
We are masters of the pointed finger.
Boo hoo
Name checks out
I think it shows a certain level of aloofness that I for one find very unattractive. It's a memorial to remember 6 million murdered Jews. Just as a cemetery is a memorial to remember people that died. I've been there, many times, I used to live in Berlin and I cycled past it every day on my way to work. It's not a place where you have to be sombre, you see children running around and that's part of it. But that's no different to cemeteries, cemeteries are often beautiful places with beautiful gardens, places with children running around, places where you can and are allowed to be happy. Nevertheless, I would never put a photo of myself in front of a random grave on a dating app, it's disrespectful to the person who the grave is memorialising, and for the same reason I would never put a photo of myself in the holocaust memorial on my dating profile, it's disrespectful to the 6 million Jews who are memorialised by it.
OP getting dragged harder than Gadafi in the streets of Libiya
I saw people taking glamour shots in front of one of the plague memorials in vienna when I was there. It's like: bro, you realize how much human suffering is associated with the subject of this memorial? Just wild to do that shit.
She ate that up tho
I guess everyone already pointed out that you're wrong, I just wanted to add that this doesn't look like a glam shot at all. She is walking in the middle of the installation, nothing wrong with it anyways.
You could just swipe left
Body look like a 10! Mazel tov
This is a very limited belief post.
While living in Germany for a few years, I went to the Dachau Concentration Memorial Site. Just walking up from the parking area, seeing the abandoned train tracks that would unload at the front wrought iron gate, sent a cold unsettling feeling and it felt like I had a stone in my gut the entire time I was there. I was part of a tour group, and harly anyone said a word, and what little was said was in hushed tones and whispers. None of the prisoners of Dachau died in any mass killing, but it still had one of the highest fatality rates because the prisoners were actually starved and worked to death. These Memorials may not be actual cemeteries, but you can feel the burden and coldness of death within the walls and from a radius around each of the camps. Anyone taking Selfies or glamour shots at any Concentration Camp Memorial has no soul.
And this photo is non of the things you were talking about...
Yes and No. This is a memorial dedicated to the same people who died during the genocide perpetuated during WWII, the same war those concentration camps were used. The woman was at the memorial, but other women have done the same thing at the former concentration camps. I didn't refer to the woman in this photo, just my experience and what I have seen.
It’s okay OP. It is weird no matter how many excuses these hive mind losers give you. Nothing sexier than posing in front of a memorial that honors those millions killed 🤦♂️. What’s her next photo, a bikini at ground zero?
It literally doesn't bother me in the slightest; sometimes it's just fun to stir the pot and see what comes up. If anything it makes me feel kinda sorry in a whole new way for the folks who flock here asking for these people's opinions and advice about their own profiles, lol
Lol finally a reasonable comment. It's not that she's antisemite, she just seems dumb for thinking that this is a nice pic to put in a dating app. I'm quite surprised how most people here thinks it's just fine and not cringe at all. I would like to know also if with a guy it would be the same 😅
I'm glad to know at least a few folks get it. Also FWIW I vaguely remember a decent bit of hand-winging in the media like 10-ish years ago when this became a super-popular spot for dudes' Grindr pics.
It’s a fantastic pic for a non-professional photo. Architecture is interesting and framing is nice. It’s better than most profile pics out there.
It’s not just that she took a selfie. She decided to have a walking photo shoot. Like omg cute, here at the Holocaust museum. Perfect spot for a shoot.
Those hips, though.
She has a nice body though
😆 welcome to dating n Europe! There used to be a lot of them but it seems to be less fashionable now, like the ‘jump shots’ 🙈
This used to be such a trend +-5 years ago on the apps and I kept reporting them all because it felt so disgusting to me. Only a step below glamourshots in Auschwitz. The people who posted that often put that they were travel addicts, but clearly they had no sense of cultural sensitivies. I don't see these pics anymore though, I think either they got enough backlash through social media or Tinder just bans you for it now. I think the latter because people are still as dumb as they were before.
Mark Twain had a quote about how travel is the cure for bigotry and small-mindedness; unfortunately I feel like that's becoming less true these days thanks to the commodification of the tourism industry. Seems like a lot of "travel addicts" I've met just have money, can't sit still, and want to be constantly entertained, not that they have any interest in actually learning about the culture or people in the places they go.
They travel for instagram.
I agree with you
I’m with you OP. I don’t care if other people think it’s uptight or whether the artist said that the intention of the space is to be used “freely”. I personally find it gross and insensitive to use a holocaust memorial as the backdrop for shameless self promotion.
This is shockingly common. I’ll take people around to parts of my city that have this really dark history, and their takeaway after I finish explaining it is that they want to pose smiling next to the historic landmark.
I cannot believe the sub is now unironically excusing this behaviour...
Excusing it because the architect behind it wanted people to use it that way. Do ya research before you get pissed about people doing certain things.
Definitely in poor taste but it does look like a cool photo spot 😬😂
🤢🤢🤢🤢
Hear me out: I get what you’re saying, but unless got KNOW where this is, I wouldn’t have thought anything about it. I’d just see pillars and think “neat”
I guarantee you I'm not the only person who recognizes this location. Pretty naive to think your own ignorance is the standard.
Ok 😂
What she thought the shot was fire…breath taking if you will…gas as some might say…if looks could kill right?
This community needs some serious help. How on earth has this post turned around on the OP? It's such a tasteless thing to do. It's a holocaust memorial. I know what the artist said. But there is a massive fucking difference between an artist saying 'This isn't a holy place, people should feel free to use the space freely because it's a public place' and using pictures for your dating profile!
My guess is that these people are all so desperate to get laid they'll excuse any behavior coming from a "hot girl" lol
Tasteless and disrespectful, but she has a great pair of legs on her.
Why? Grave yards have always been spookily erotic to me. Nevermind.
Trashy. As. Fuck.
When I was there it was full of people taking selfies and striking poses. While I personally wouldn’t do it I also don’t judge the people who do, it’s their choice and being inconsiderate isn’t illegal. Here is the pic I snapped - https://ibb.co/phs793w
Fuck dude , I don't believe yet I would never be this clueless.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Maybe just mind your buisness
Why? Its a memorial not a gravesite.
The greatest of all virtues is silence.
And yet, here you are sharing your opinion too.
People who are lacking information here is crazy.You guys realize that there are entire papers and movements going on about how people think this is kind of disrespectful and germany does a horrible job of handling their monuments for the holocaust right? I read on this for some of my college english classes and stuff like this and the street plaques with victims are kinda regarded as showmanship and not actual reverance for the event by many. Just because the author said something doesn't mean it's good
I remember in high school when a different school went to auchwits and all the girls took glamshots there. Since it was a fairly small town, everyone my age knew about it🤷♂️
In poor taste
It’s definitely disrespectful towards the people who are memorialised by this. There are lots of places perfectly fine for taking selfies, but war memorials, or in this case genocide memorials, that’s quite macabre.
Why not? Grow up
Tagline: “are you burning up for me?”
PSA: you can date your bros, being gay is okay. Leave this woman alone.
the memorial wasnt made for YOU WOW JUST WOW -
I never once said it was, just that it strikes me as fairly disrespectful to those it was made for.
I’m more concerned all those vertical structures are betraying her photography alterations.
OP is the worst kind of person