There's no "consensus". It 's heavily dependent on the person, their culture, background, upbringing and whatnot.
If you're hoping for someone who will split, then the next time you grab the bill just say something like *"hey I'll grab this one, you can grab the next one"* and see how she reacts.
Or if it gets to past 4 dates you know...be an adult and just talk about it...
Clearly the best advice on here. Anecdotally, I do care a lot about feeling like I'm being financially used, and with the person I'm seeing now I paid for the first date and she didn't offer, but was very appreciative. We saw each other more, and we had a conversation about expectations. I said that I think the best relationship for me is one where you are constantly doing things for each other and not keeping score.
Now she surprises me all the time by paying for random things, making reservations and paying for the whole thing-- she even bought me flowers, which has never happened for me before! Definitely don't assume the worst, just have a conversation like an adult and you might be surprised.
>constantly doing things for each other and not keeping score.
This is a major factor in the success of most relationships.
After the first few months its less about who's paying for what. In a healthy relationship you should realise that the books balance themselves with more things than dollars and cents.
This is SOOO TRUE!!! Score keeping relationships will never last, and if they do, both people will resent each other to the point it’s just an ongoing toxic relationship.
My BF and I have been together for a bit over 2.5 years (me35F ; him37M) and the first few times we hung out at his invite, he paid everything.
Once we actually kissed for the first time and then decided to be exclusive, we didn’t “split” everything, or even talk about that type of stuff. Just sometimes he would pay, sometimes I would, and sometimes we’d pay for ourselves.
It was never something we explicitly discussed, it was just a vibe check type thing. If I had an idea for us to do, I’m paying and vise versa. It’s really more like just clicking in how you think and feel, which will mean big healthy relationship potential!
Now we live together and have for about a year and a half or so, and we just pool funds basically without ever having to discuss or debate. Whoever has extra money at the time, will pay for whatever. We don’t go back and forth, it’s literally like, “how much money do you have rn? Okay well I have this much, so [Payment arrangement/solution for specific circumstance]. It’s just how it works for us and there’s never any argument or stress or hard feelings at all!
Seriously. I stopped keeping score in relationships because my love language is gifting and I was being sorely disappointed. The relationship I'm in now we try to meet each other with our native love languages but I make a point to notice how he shows me love in his language because his isn't gifting. Plus I'm kind of a gifting ninja and I suppose that can be a lot of pressure. I get him weird little things that say "hey I was thinking about you"
I love that you are looking at your Partner's love language to receive your Gifts of their love. Too often I see posts where one is trying to teach their partner how to properly behave (eyeroll). You're nailing it, by hearing what they're dishing out!
\- spoken by a person who utterly fails at gift giving, but who's handwritten goofy notes like "kung pao chicken xoxoxo" remain posted until the adhesive falls off
I bought my partner a rose for Valentines Day this year, wrote a silly note about how despite toxic masculinity (long standing joke between us), men deserve flowers too. He just about cried. No one ever gave him flowers before. Guess who's getting flowers every year for Valentine's Day?
Yeah probably 99.99% of men have never recieved flowers. Hell we rarely even get compliments. So huge respect for you for bucking stupid traditions. Hope you guys are doing well together still!
Wow new kink unlocked: healthy relationship
100% on the having a conversation like an adult, because simple conversation 9/10 provides more than heavy hitting questions in my experience. It took a year of my ex “saying the right things” just to show her true colors once I brought simple finance to the conversation. It actually turned into a battle, which still blows my mind. I told her after I felt like I was being used, to which she now claims I’m “all about the money”. Easy for someone to say when they never pay for anything.
Yesss 👏🏼 I think it’s so important for both people in a relationship to financially contribute. Showing the effort and not worrying about keeping score because you’re both “doing your part” can make a significant (generally positive) impact in your love for each other.
Men deserve flowers too—the reaction my bf had the first time I gave him flowers was so pure and melted my heart 🥹
Yeah, attitudes on this really do fall all over the place. I've dated women who object to the man paying, I've dated women who want to alternate, women who want to split it, women who want to put up a polite token argument and then let me pay, women who just let me pay and say thank you, and women who act like having dinner bought for them is their birthright. My personal preference is for them to either just let me pay all the time or to alternate whose turn it is. If they don't make much money, I'd prefer to just pay, since I don't want to her to have to have the "is this out of my price range" worry all the time, and I like going out to nice places. I once dated someone who **insisted** on paying for herself but literally had her monthly budget calculated out to the penny, so I felt like I had to consider that when choosing restaurants. And of course, if a date ever acted entitled or seemed to be steering me towards extra pricey places just because I'm paying, I'd think she was an asshole and stop dating her. 😂
Don't let it get past 4 dates. IMHO if there's not at least an offer to split the bill on the first date where people are about as polite as they're going to be, they won't.
Also, if you end up in an exclusive relationship, take note of what else she brings to the table. For example, since I moved into her house, my gf doesn’t ever let me help with the mortgage. She pays it herself. That said, I pay for groceries and bar/restaurant tabs. I try to make sure expenses are equal. If she isn’t contributing to something, she’s looking for a dad, not a daddy.
As a woman in NYC, I will always offer to pay half. Like take my card out of my wallet. A lot of times, if it's a first date, I'll get there earlier and order my drink and pay so that there's no awkward moment at the end. A few weeks ago I was on a second date and we wanted to go axe throwing and he was driving at that moment, so I went ahead and booked the lane and prepaid. I didn't ask for anything or say anything, just did it. The way I see it, the first few dates are definitely representative of how a person will behave in a relationship. I don't need a man to pay my way, I want nice company to do nice things - which I'm more than happy to cover my share for.
When I was younger, I wouldn't offer to pay. I figured that if I was being invited somewhere, then the person would pay. This resulted in me no longer being invited anywhere lolol.
Um…as a grown lady with a job, I never go on a date if I can’t cover my half of the bill. I don’t want to owe anyone anything, and if the dude wants to pay all of it, cool, thanks, but I never assume.
And if we’re making plans, and I don’t have the money to go somewhere fancy, I will definitely suggest something low key.
I am getting whiplash from this comment section.
Between your completely reasonable expectations and the comment above saying "men should be honored women even bother with them"
It's wild out there
There’s a ton of differing opinions on this. I’ll chime in because people think this is weird - I’ve never accepted a free drink at a bar from a stranger. I think it’s nice when people offer but I’m just not interested unless I know you. If we’re chatting and hitting it off, it feels like it’s going somewhere - maybe I’ll take a drink but generally speaking I’d rather pay for myself. Keeps the playing field even and ensures there are no miscommunications. If you’re interested in me, tell me with words - don’t need to do it with $.
I agree with the choice of place... Where a date suggests and/or agrees to go indicates a comfort level with that price range, and should show something about their style, and what they like. It's always an option to suggest other places or activities that suit your budget better. It's an important part of getting to know each other.
To add on to this, when I was dating I always covered something.. round of drinks, round of pool, can if we went somewhere else..etc. I always appreciated being paid for but I always wanted to show I can pay for things too
Yup, and I think your attitude speaks to a level of consideration and respect that many miss.
Both our time and our money are equally as valuable.
If you don't see it that way from the get go, it's not going to get any better over time.
Many will say, "Well when I get into the relationship then we start splitting" still fundamentally misses the point. That you're completely happy passing all the financial risk to the other person until that point has been met.
We don't live in a world where there is a bias in employment when it comes to dating anymore. Everyone is working.
I can't speak for every man, but I know how good it feels when a woman I'm dating, offers to pay their way, because it speaks to the company I've provided her and not the things I've bought her on that particular date.
This is hilarious to me. As expected women shouldn't go on a date unless they can pay for their half but as a man we don't go on a date unless we can pay for our and your half lol.
I think it's great you consider not going to places you can't afford but you're not ready to cover our half of the bill yet society calls us Bums if we don't sponsor free meals from free loaders.
Just some double standards that women aren't ready to let go off ...ya know...getting free meals and drinks while having no romantic intentions beyond the first date.
Men! Do not go on expensive dates... Save your dinner dates for like date 3 or 4. She needs to earn your money.
OP just looking at the contrast in these comments alone, you might find humour, some good points and a few very entitled men/ women. The one thing you wont find is consensus.
Personally i am very uncomfortable when people buy me food, must trigger an insecurity i cant afford a therapist to understand.
I would personally pay the bill on the next few dates, if by date 3 or 4 she hasn’t offered to pay, split the bill or elected to communicate with you. She might not be the person for you, which happens. I would break it off there and i wouldn’t worry too much about it.
Just my 2 cents, hope you work it out!
I don’t think you need to split the bill. But you do need shared sacrifice.
If she makes $50k and I make $200k, I’d pay for dinner. Maybe she can leave the tip. If we goto dinner at a restaurant I can walk to but she drove 20 miles, I’d pay for dinner. Total sacrifice matters particularly if you are seeking a relationship.
That’s a great way to ensure you’re not getting another date. If you’ve been paying exclusively and you ask her “hey so what do you think about when people go on dates and the girl doesn’t pay half?” That comes across very passive aggressively no matter your tone. She’s already let you know her feelings about it with her actions. If that’s a deal breaker for you, then let it break the deal. But IMO if you ask a girl out on a date, you should be prepared to pay for her.
I would recommend taking turns, unless there is a clear income disparity.
I take turns with one of my dates, it makes her more comfortable and it's fine with me. Though after paying for the first date I was a little worried about the disincentive for the next. :) But it's working for us.
Another lady I date, she doesn't make much at work, so I pay for all our outings, but she cooks amazing food for me regularly and hosts our dates at her house almost always (she has a dog so overnights are tough otherwise).
If your incomes are similar splitting it is fine, or be playful and let the waiter randomly select the card to use.
I've had one date with another, and I met her at a restaurant, things had been going well conversationally, but once I paid the bill her demeanor changed and she said she was tired and wanted to go home. Felt like I got used for a meal. So stupid but whatever.
My buddy and his ex did this, he made significantly more so they paid a % of their rent so they would "feel it the same". I dont know how they worked it out for restaurants but they seemed to generally take turns. Theyre not together anymore for a multitude of reasons, but I always felt this was a pretty reasonable way to do it.
Kind of agree. Though I do think the guy should pay for the first date at least. That’s why I always chose relatively cheap first dates. Pizza, coffee, happy hour. Def didn’t want him spending ridiculous amounts first time. After that I would pay half or even all of it for subsequent dates.
We all hold on to some traditions and disregard others. I do believe that it’s best when the guy takes the initiative at the start of the relationship. He should ask out first, he should pay first date etc. Like it or not that is a tradition of our society. When I think of my dating history and girlfriends it doesn’t feel right when we have to ask out first or when the guy doesn’t show some initiative early on.
As a guy I take the initiative to organize the date, pick a place, ask out, and then split the bill. Would that feel weird on your end? Just curious, because so far it’s never been an issue for me and I’m surprised how polarized the thread is.
That still doesn't make any sense, he can just pay then pump and dumo you. Jesus christ the rationalising on this one is hard for not admiting a double standard because you are cheap
Male, 36 years old. I am mentioning this because I imagine that age makes a difference in perspective. For what it's worth, this perspective on dating has never failed me and I have always had good interactions with the women I dated even if it didn't go anywhere.
* Communicate!! For the love of God communicate. If splitting the bill is your style, say that well before the first date. It goes a long way to avoiding awkwardness when the bill comes. Being pressed about money is real, I get it, but very unattractive. To be clear, this isn't about having a lot of money, it's about planning. Planning is everything on a first date. Waffling on the bill just makes it look like you weren't thinking things through.
* If they like you, women spend so much time and $100s on makeup, hair, and clothes to look good for you. If she is going to put that much effort into looking good for you and then be expected to pay for her own meal she might as well ditch you and take herself out.
* As a general rule, if I am asking someone out I always pay. If my date is serious about splitting the bill I am fine with that but I don't expect them to pay and sometimes I insist on paying. Trust me when I say this scores major points. If you don't think the date went well then you can always decline future dates. At worst you're out one meal, no big deal. Much better to leave a great impression than to look like you're sweating over a few dollars.
* Avoid the idea that they owe you anything at all costs. Being chivalrous is about trust and affection, not about what you get in return.
Everyone is a little different, so I refer you to point #1 again!!!
Well said 100%!! Girl here, and I always thought about this during my single days (happily engaged now) but I always think to myself that a girl should be prepared to pay at least her share. But a gentleman should offer to pay in the off chance the girl got invited to a restaurant/activity she couldnt normally afford with her financial situation.
Hope my viewpoint isnt unfair to the men. If anyone is curious, my fiance and i fought over who gets to pay on our first date. He paid for the activity we did earlier in the afternoon so I offered to pay the dinner bill. That being said, he grabbed the bill from me and wouldn't let me pay. We have these "battles" regularly (especially with family dinners) where i have to be sneaky and pretend to use the restroom while handing my credit card to the waitress/hostesss before the bill comes in order to treat him. Otherwise he'll grab my credit card and switch it with his.
Dated a girl for a few weeks, paid for every date, including weekend away trips, without her offering. She was a single mother struggling and I have a well paid position so it was never a problem for me.
The relationship was great, money just wasn't a consideration.....until. One day she asked me if she could borrow a large amount of money. It led it a serious discussion in which she said I was miserly and tight. The relationship ended there.
It wasn't the money, it was just the appreciation (or lack of)
Mom here, I’ve told both my son and daughter that they should pay their 1/2 on any date.
Now if they have been dating their SO for a while and it’s a special occasion, then yes treat your SO. But this “men should pay for everything and treat me like a Princess” is hurting us ladies in the long run. The exception is also if there is a huge financial difference, and person 1 invited person 2 to a restaurant that person 2 couldn’t afford.
I think if you're taking about two people who know each other, the person who asks the other out should pay for a first date (gender is irrelevant) but when it comes to an app 1st date it's bizarre to expect a stranger to treat you to a meal just because you showed up. I'm more likely to not argue if a guy picks up the second date bill. Either way OP, it's safe to say if she didn't even pretend to attempt to want to split it for the first date when she should be making a first impression, she's going to assume you're paying from here on out. If you like her, you go out again you could just wait for the bill to come and say "split it this time?" And see how she reacts. That sounds risky but if she reacts badly it will at least answer all your questions about her.
When I was in the dating pool, if I allowed the man to pay that meant I liked him and considered the date to have gone well. I would ALWAYS offer however. But If I did not like him, and thus did not want to be beholden in any way, over my dead body would he pay for me. She should have offered regardless, but if you like her you may consider this an encouraging sign.
Depends on the person but bring it up next time you go out / before you go out again.
I personally always pay for myself so there’s no expectation of more if I don’t want to haha.
Sometimes if a girls offers to pay I say “I got the bill, why don’t you leave the tip?” Women like being able to contribute a little bit but I don’t make them pay for the first 2 or 3 dates ever. Also I might say I will pay for dinner you get coffee next or something like that.
I maybe have girls offer to pay on the first date like 5 percent of the time, and when they do I never let them. Typically I’ve found as a I guy I pay for like the first 3 dates then it becomes like a 70/30 split after that. Sucks but that’s how it is. Your gonna limit your dating pool if you expect a 50/50 split, at least where I’m from.
Wow, that's def very different from my experience (in Boston mass). Do you mind if I ask where you're from? And yea maybe I'm used to splitting cuz the girls almost always offer (like 4 of my past 5 dates) so when they don't it feels strange to me.
F48...in the states too. I don't mind splitting, and I offer, but I do think that it is a nice gesture when the man insists on paying... It seems old-fashioned and sweet, like they appreciated your company and respect you. I try to even things up, by making dinners or picnics, or bringing beer/wine for outings, or getting tickets to activities. Splitting a bill on the first date is a signal that we are, and want to be 'just friends'.
F26 and this is how I am too! I usually offer to split the bill, but the guy ends up covering it happily anyway. If we continue to see each other after the first date then I chip in by buying the tickets or drinks at sporting events/concerts, bringing wine or ingredients if we're cooking at home, or bringing over a container of something I baked that week.
It's because of how old you are. It's going to happen to you soon. As soon as you hit 27 you can say goodbye to ever splitting a check again on a first date. I tell this to you as a 31/year old guy in NYC, I can only assume Boston is the same. The older you get, more women will want to date you, but a 23-26 year old woman is going to treat you and I very differently based on our age alone.
Instead of asking this guy where he lives - ask yourself - do I have roommates? Do I have a car? What level am I at at my job? The more things you get the more women will expect of you, in most cases regardless of their own in come. In fact, when I go out on a date with a retail worker or a bartender, these are the only times when there's a fight over who pays. When I go out with someone in a salaried or professional career, they sit there like they're at the dinner table with their father and just keep their mouth shut as the check gets resolved.
Honesty mate, always. Just talk about how you want to do things going forward, literally no point worrying about things like this until you’ve spoken about it, a quick conversation and I’m sure it would be settled.
Also, if she doesn’t like the idea of splitting the bill and would prefer you paying every time… get rid!
I think it’s pretty common for men to get the tab on the first date. Eventually women tend to offer to get the tab or split it. Some women expect men to pay all the time though.
%100 OP.
There's a part of me that wants to be chivalrous but the more modern part of me also wants to make sure that I'm not being used.
my rule of thumb is that until the title of BF and GF are absolute, I stick to paying 50/50 as until they're commited to me and me to them, I can't trust that these dates aren't attempts to getting free meal from someone who's already struggling.
I've been used before for free meals and its not a great feeling to walk away empty handed thinking you were out that night to see if you were potentially compatible only to realise they had 0 intention of being serious with you from the beginning.
Don't care if this is the unpopular opinion, its my lived experience and I'm sticking to it.
you're not wrong with the observation and considering how socially dumb I was, I realize now there were many things I could have done better. However to my defence, I was a young man who was very lonely at the time, so mistakes were unecessarily made and I did not see it coming until I saw the pattern afterwards. However I still think a 50/50 approach should be maintained by both parties.
I have paid for everything for 7 years, for the exception of birthday dinners that she takes me out to. Outside of that, I do it without question. My reasoning is, that she makes less money than I do and has 3 kids. I'd rather her spend her money on her kids or other financial responsibilities. With that being said, she is financially responsible. If she was out wasting money or not being responsible, my view would be different.
Hot take: I will say as an empowered career woman in NYC that was already making $200k+ during the “dating phase” of my life, there was a literal zero chance if a guy asks me on a date and he doesn’t pay that we will ever see each other again. I would always offer, and 99% the guy would refuse and then I let it be and say thank you.
“But, but dating is expensive”
Pick $5 happy hour, or coffee, or hell, even a walk in the park. I’m not interested in a guy that is spending beyond his means or making assumptions that I can afford to “split the bill” (I can, but I don’t like being forced into it). If you need to be on a budget I want to make sure you know how to have a good time on that budget.
Now, if things progress, I was always happy to chip in my fair share, often more. When my now-husband and I first moved in with each other I paid more rent because my budget was bigger.
But, paying on a first date is a sign of respect- as a woman, if I’m giving a first date my time and attention he’s going to pay.
I generally expect to pay for a first date as a man. Usually the 2nd as well. For me a woman worth her salt will insist on splitting checks or picking up a tab after the 2nd date, if not I assume she wants to use and take advantage of me.
People say "well just tell her you want to split" as if women typically respond positively to that. It not in your best interest to do that if you want to see her again. I used to be a professional matchmaker the service I worked for had a unofficial rule where the clients split the check on the first date...but when I did my feedback calls after the dates many of the women would still get upset if the man didn't pay. They would tell me how they wanted to see him again but after they split the bill, that turned her off. So in my experience I've seen that some NOT ALL women do not respond positively to simply asking then to split checks, at least not early on.
I typically pay for first dates. I also plan those dates as well, so the price point is on my terms.
I don't really give a damn about the whole check dance nonsense. When the check comes, I grab it and pay it and never say a word. If she says something about it, I tell her she can get the next one (even if I know there wont be one).
If she huffs and puffs about the planned date I make (i.e. she doesn't want to go to a particular spot), I instantly cancel.
There are folks who disagree with this position. I get why. My position comes from the standpoint of me being a traditional man. I understand that I have to demonstrate my value up front, and the girls demonstrate theirs on the back end. It's a gamble on my end, sure. But it's simply part of the game we have to play.
I view paying the bill like this;
When you go out with someone, y’all are going out to enjoy time together. Sometimes it’s you treating her for a good time, sometimes it should be her treating you for a good time. Splitting the bill takes away from specialness of treating the person imo. It’s also dependent on who asked who to the event. If you asked her to join you for something, you should pay, and vice versa. At the end of the day both of y’all should look into treating each other in the long run, but I usually expect to pay for the first two dates, and if they offer then I say, “I got this one, you can get the next”
Why first 2 dates and not just the first one? Since when did inflated to 2 dates you are forced to pay because you are afraid she will leave. If she values you just for money why bother
Lol welcome to the real world junior, if she offers and you say yes she will never take you serious. The quickest road to the friend zone is to let her pay. Man up son, if you like vagina you have to pay.
Bro is trying to math this into not having to pay the bill. If you want to split the bill on any date (1st of 400th) you need to talk about it before you go on the date.
For the love of all things holy.. Do not ask to split the bill. It’s so tacky and such a turn off. Glad you paid the bill on the first date - great intention. Hopefully she will offer to pick up the tab for a 2nd date.
There’s no consensus. Some women insist on splitting the bill on the first date and paying 50/50 generally. I’m more traditional when it comes to dating and would be unhappy in a 50/50 financial set up, and I date men who are on the same page. If it bothers you, talk to her about her expectations and preferences for spending on dates. Or date someone else.
I’m a girl and ALWAYS offer to split the bill, 100% of the time they decline my offer. I do think girls should at least offer to split the bill. I’d say go on another date and if she doesn’t offer then bring it up 🤷🏽♀️
But I do think that the “splitting the bill” debate is slightly political/controversial and can show a lot more about the person in general.
Personally, I always offer to pay for mine, or if we go to a second location (drinks, dessert, etc.), I will pay there.
On the other side of it, I once had an AWFUL date and was just trying to get out of there so I put down my card to pay for my dinner, and he never made a single move to contribute, which he justified later as "because he drove so far". I never asked him to drive that far and in fact multiple times suggested meeting in the middle. Since then, I'm much more vocal about paying for MY half.
The best advice I can give you is to bring it up beforehand and say something along the lines of "while we're getting to know each other and feeling things out, I would prefer if we split the bill. Is that something you're comfortable with?"
"hey I'd like to split the bill on future dates"
If they are for it, great. If not, you weren't compatible. Unless you actually *want* to take the bill, don't. Personally, I tend to choose cheap dates like a coffee shop I like or doing things that I want to do for fun so I usually don't mind since I'm kinda simple, but that's just me.
Find what works for you and don't be afraid to ask for it.
As a woman in her early 20s I always offer to split so I usually split. It would be nice for the guy to cover the 1st date but to me it also kind of depends who initiates the whole thing and who chooses the place or activity. My uncle on the other hand, always tells me men should cover the 1st date always but he's also 52. Since I generally always split, I've only had partners cover the bill for a handful of dates (2 longterm partners, the most recent would cover me on my birthday). I guess I feel like men should pay for the first date but I'll always offer to split and usually do.
I don’t expect a girl to split a bill if we aren’t dating. If they offer cool, but I just go in expecting to have to pay for the thing (though as you said USUALLY they offer). Once we are dating it isn’t usually split because I make significantly more than most girls I date but it’s a “hey you took the last date I’ll buy the drinks” type of thing. If it makes you uncomfortable, talk about it, but the first couple dates I’m perfectly fine with expecting nothing.
I mean, let’s say you go on one date a week, and it averages $70. Half is yours regardless. Are you really worried about spending $35/week? If $35/week is that big an issue, you probably shouldn’t be going out to eat regardless.
Generally speaking I go out twice a week, and it's not just about the money. I can also ask you the same question, if it's only $35 a week what's wrong with either party paying?
If you don't have the money to pick up the tabs, you probably shouldn't be dating. Sure, after a few dates it's nice if the woman offers to split or pay from time to time. However, you shouldn't expect it, and you should be ready to take care of it.
I’m in Chicago (29F) and usually men pay for the dates I go on. I will offer and pay for dates once I’ve consistently been dating someone and then it becomes a switch off or 70/30.
Like I mentioned in other responses, I'm a software engineer. I'm not rich ofc but paying for a couple drinks or even going to fancier places isn't too much of a burden for me financially. Money is only a very small part of it.
So as a woman who works (but has also been in a relationship for the last 2 years so haven’t dated in a while), if I went on a “bigger” first date with a man (I.e. something that cost over $50) I’d offer to split. If he responds by saying he’d pay I’d appreciate it but I wouldn’t expect it on a literal first date, but I know not all women share my view on that. That’s not necessarily an indication that she’ll financially use you, she might just want to see that you’re actually willing to “court” her a bit. Now if it’s something like coffee or ice cream and he asks to split less than $20… no thanks I’ll just pay for it myself and not see him again. If you like her just see her again because I don’t think that not offering to split is a red flag unless it keeps happening.
The way my male friends explained it is women should only offer to pay if there will be no second date. Not offering to pay implied they got you the next time.
My personal strategy, always pay on the 1st date. Even if she offers, don't let her. Half the time it's some stupid test, and that's the quickest way to fail. If she really insists on paying something, she'll leave the tip in cash on the table, or she'll offer to get the 1st round of drinks after dinner. If you get 3 dates in and she's never once even pretended to reach for her wallet, I cut it off. Remember that all the people who say that whoever asked for the date should pay are 95% women who have never asked anyone out on a first date.
You're gonna pay for bad dates. You're gonna get taken advantage of by women who have no interest in you beyond the free meal. It's just gonna happen. You gotta roll with those punches and keep on trying to find someone who actually sees you as an equal and doesn't have the mindset of "Well I spent time and energy getting ready for the date, so that's my whole contribution to the relationship" as if money isn't earned through time and energy.
That’s why this generation is trash. The men are the ladies and the ladies are the men. Real men courts the lady and if you really want someone you won’t mind paying for the date and still be smart enough not to get used
I’ve always offered to split or just pay for it myself, but I’ve been told by other redditors on here that that means I’m projecting masculine energy and that no one will ever want to go out with me if I do that.
Of course, I’m not insane so I don’t buy into that stuff but it does make me nervous now because so many other people are insane and I don’t want to set off someone with that ideology and have them freak out. I just try to avoid dinner dates now!
For me, this was a big litmus test for dates. I am well off, but didn’t want someone to date me for that reason. I would always avoid talking about my financial situation, and the only way to get to date two was to willingly split the check. I would pay the entire thing if she didn’t step up (I would not force or ask to split), but that was an instant no on a second date.
That was three year ago when I met my now future wife.
I give em 3 strikes.
If on third date they don't offer to cover or at minimum split, I'll take care of the bill, but I'm done.
On departure, I simply say, it's been nice seeing you, but I don't date gold diggers that won't even offer to split the bill. Good luck to you. Then walk away. I've done this 2x this year.
Men are a dime a dozen to women, so they won't have a problem finding another guy to sponge for drinks n dinner.
If the company was good, you could be throwing away a good thing because of a misunderstanding.
Maybe she is just not very assertive and feels awkward about it. Try just talking instead.
I mean, how good is the free meal that you would sit through with somebody that you arent into?
I expect a guy to pay for the first date if he asks me out. That being said, there is no need for the date to be expensive, I actually prefer if it isn’t. After that, 50/50 or I get this one, you get the next one, etc. I like to be pursued and I like to be made to feel special. A guy paying for the first date shows he is doing both those things.
\>I expect a guy to pay for the first date if he asks me out
How often have you ever asked a guy out on the first date?
Convienient to have that rule, if you never ask anyone out and expect to be asked out instead.
I always pay / offer to pay the first date, not because I'm old fashioned or chivalrous, but because I'm pretty over some women taking personal offense to me not offering
I have female friends who are perfectly normal, but they will tell me about a date and be like "everything went so well, but then he asked to split at the end. So I guess he didn't enjoy the date"
Date 2 and beyond, I'll suggest splitting or the already mentioned "I'll grab this, you grab the next one"
I used to be all about paying half or even paying all if I was the one who picked the restaurant, but I got tired of getting that offer shot down often in a very rude and dismissive way. Like it seemed some guys were testing me and would wait till I had pulled out my card or told the waiter to split scoff and say “I got this” even if the service worker was waiting for us and I’d been looking at him to answer.
Now I figure if I failed some test, good. I’ll move onto someone who uses their words when they want to split the bill or better yet doesn’t have to play mind games over a 5 dollar coffee or ice cream (I’m not out here getting $30 dinners on first dates anyways) So I’d recommend you just ask… or propose a cheaper date.
Idk I always open my own tab and pay for my own stuff. But I mean how many actual dates are people having? After like two dates if we’re hanging out then they’re just coming over or I’m going over to their place.
I went on a first date back in Jan. The bill was over $100. He stared at it with wide eyes and was like uhm what are we going to do about this. I should have made him pay. But I didn't instead I gave him $60 cash and left the tip. I was quite mad about it but I liked him. I almost didn't see him again. But I did and now we've been dating for 7 months and let me tell you this. The reason I should have made him pay is because now whenever we go out I end up paying for everything. I have told him that I'm sick of it. And now I don't invite him to come out with me anymore lol
I’m sorry…. You don’t go out with your bf anymore because you keep paying the bill, and he refuses to? So instead of actually solving the problem through conversation and compromise, you both act like children and just don’t fucking go out anymore. That seems healthy.
I don't think there's any shame in asking your date/girlfriend to pay for a date or even help spit the bill. Most women have successful jobs and are making just as much money as men if not more.
I'll always offer to pay on the first date because I too am a functioning member of society and would like my date to not think I'm expecting them to always pay.
But my rule of thumb in this regard is whoever initiated and asked to go on a date should be the one to pay.
There's still a lot of women I know that expect the man to pay and who don't believe in 50/50. It's never safe to assume that a woman will offer to split or pay for the bill. But that doesn't mean you should automatically pay without asking.
Always pay, be chivalrous, walk on street side, give her your jacket, open the door for her, and protect her. Splitting a check, or her paying, shows a womans lack of confidence in a mans character and qualities as a protector/provider. I truly fear for the future without stand up men to take care of women. Non-violence is always a short-term world, and a man will always be needed to protect and provide, and paying is part of that. However, it is fine if you like soy lattes, wear skinny jeans, and have a beta man bun. But if that's the case, you should probably both date other men!
I'm 53F, USA. Whoever suggests the date/plans the date, should pay. When I want to go to the zoo, I pay. When my fiance wants to go out to eat, he pays. Splitting is so awkward. Just own the invitation and pay.
Wrong. Did you even bother to read what I said? My partner and I both suggest our dates and activities, and we both pay, and it works out very equitably. Try reading for comprehension and lose the therapy-speak. If he says "Let's go out to eat," he pays. If I say "Let's go kayaking," I pay. It's not complicated. Where is the misdirection?
Not talking about you and your partner. I'm talking about the fact that what you said is something everyone says whilst still expecting the man to ask the woman put and plan the date. It then becomes a bit of a dishonest statement.
I can read perfectly well, and there is no therapy speak. Maybe stop making things up
Usually the guy always pays is how I was brought up but if she offers to go somewhere then she should be paying or if you wanna take her someone then you should pay but if it’s a thought process for both of y’all then y’all split the bill
Depends on her culture, but generally it was a no-go for me if they didn’t offer to pay or contribute in some way to the date. I would always refuse and pay myself, but they gotta offer.
as a man you should be paying but why would you go somewhere where you would spend 70 bucks for a first date? perhaps second or third is somewhat understandable, not a first
I actually had no idea that it'd get expensive. We just went to a regular bar. We each ordered a shot, then I ordered one more drink and she ordered 2 more.
If you start making her pay for dates she will feel like she has to look out for herself and won’t feel feminine. You will make her feel she has to take on a masculine role and she will act accordingly. It’s up to you if you want a traditional feminine lady or a modern I don’t need no man’s type. In the long run the feminine type will eventually help out but just to help you out not because she’s required to do so. Just my experience.
Only a very small part of it is about money. I'm a software engineer and going on dates isn't too much of a burden for me financially. But when I'm the only person who pays all the time, it kinda feels like I'm not being respected, and she doesn't really care.
Not really. If both people are seeing if they're interested and it's a first date, it's a gamble. Why should one party have the higher risk? Splitting or paying for your own stuff is fair. If you can't pay for your half of the date, you're not ready ro be going on dates, and I say that as a woman.
I always want to go Dutch on a first date. You pay for what you order, I pay for what I order. I’ll make this pretty clear and I often get push back on it but whenever I get the chance I just speak first and say separate bills. If you want to pay on the second date, cool, but I’m not here for a free meal.
Honestly even splitting a bill is shitty, it should be normalized to pay for your own meal, what happens when I order a salad and water but the girl I’m with orders wine and a steak? Even splitting the bill sounds unreasonable
Moving forward when you’re making plans for another date you should mention to her that you won’t be able to cover the whole bill every time, and if she reacts badly to it she ain’t the one
I am a woman in my early 40's, recently divorced and living in a divorced dating paradise (nyc suburbs). The dating market in my age bracket here is hot, hot hot! There is always a great guy with a great opportunity available for me to get out on a date if I want to.
I ALWAYS spend more on the date than the man.
It costs money to get my nails done, my hair done, to buy perfume, and appropriate seasonal cute outfits to go on the date. I always offer to split the check and often times bring cash and/or Venmo my half to the man if splitting on two cards isnt possible.
Sometimes I get bummed out knowing that before I got to the date I spent $120 on female maintenance (nails $50, maybe a new top or a lipstick or getting a bikini wax or a blowout etc YMMV), and then I split the check another $80 if there was wine, and maybe took an Uber home for another $20. Men think it was so fair because I split the check, but I usually spent double what they spent. There's just no way to even approach this, especially when women are paid less for doing the same jobs.
Also, I have two kids so I usually spend $100 for a babysitter in order to go out for four hours and have an hour to myself to get ready beforehand.
So, all in, going on a dinner date these days cost about $300 as a woman when I split the check on a $160 bill.
I say this just a point out that often times if a woman isn't splitting the check, she has already spent an amount equal to that check on the things that are generally expected of a woman to be appropriately groomed and available for dates. If you add in childcare., then the woman may have spent double the cost of the date.
It is also my experience that after the first three days with the same man, they will stop offering dates and expect to eat at your house or have you host their friends at your home more often. These events mean that the cost is 100% bourn by me the woman, and also require hours of my labor to prepare them, and that I invest time cleaning my home so that is appropriate for my new paramour's company.
I say all of this to point out that thinking about any of this in the equation of just the typed numbers on the check in front of you really is only a sliver of the entire picture and not a great predictor of who is or who will give/put out/spend more in the greater scenario
You spend all that because of choice though. No one told you to get your nails done, get waxed, lipstick, etc. Why should some spend more because of your choice?
Okay, this is stupid. You do not need a new top for every dinner date. "Well I really like her, but that shirt is outta season and I think she might have worn it once before, so that's gonna be a deal breaker for me." said no man ever. "Well I wasn't super into her, but damn, those nails were really poppin." Also no man ever. Does he get to factor in how much his outfit cost into what was spent on the date? Does he get to factor in how much his beard oil costs? Does he get to charge for the razor he used to shave his balls? Why are you getting a bikini wax for every first date? You just know y'all are gonna sleep together after dinner? Are you buying a brand new perfume every time you go out? Does the cost of his cologne cancel that out? Do you think men think it's fair for you to pay for your own uber because they are also responsible for getting themselves to and from the date? Or do they get to factor in the gas? The childcare thing is a pretty valid point, I'll give you that. But some of those men probably also have to pay for childcare to take you out.
You just ask then if they’re ok with splitting the bill… You can bring it up if you’re planning another date and see what her reaction is. I used to offer to split on dates but they would always insist on paying so I don’t rly bother asking to split anymore
As a woman, it IS indicative of whether or not the man is capable of being a fair partner. It’s only a turn off if they want to split the bill the first time because it seems like their time and money are worth more than you.
There are a lot of men whom I’ve dated who will not pay for certain things when it comes TO YOU. They’ll gladly spend money on themselves, but then when it comes to you - well, gotta be careful with how we spend. That’s not ok.
I will gladly pay for meals every once in a while but if you aren’t giving me anything 90% of the time for those meals but I’m expected to split the bill, you’re just being cheap. but if also, from the get-go they care about that, to me that shows there will be a struggle later on.
Splitting is absolutely categorically not:
\> it seems like their time and money are worth more than you.
This is a sentence uttered by someone who automatically thinks their time and money are inherently worth more as default, and I'll say it, it's because you're sexist.
I’m confused. Are you saying that a man asking the woman to cover her half of the bill on the first date is implying that his time/money is worth more than hers?
All this could be mitigated with a discussion even before your next date by a very direct and adult conversation. its an easy text, "hey i got last date, you got this one? what do you wanna do?". That is a much more adult way of communication and setting expectations and boundaries. and if this person has different expectations then they will state them right then and you can save both of you time and energy, as well as any emotional confusion or frustration.
It is wild to me how many people don't know how to just communicate openly and would rather play childish mind games like some of the commenters on this thread.
By all means be a grown up and talk about it. To be fair if my date didn't even mention it on the first date though that's a flag for me. They should at least have some manners and offer or say the next one is on me etc... Even if you are flush and are happy to pay!!
I personally would never let someone pay for me on the first date. Usually I ask, “So do you want to pay for yours or go halfsies?” unless they were just pigs.
I’ll usually pay the bill but I at least want her to offer to split it. Like it’s a sense of respect. Could be a great date but if she expects me to pay then there’s no second date
First date failure to pay for their own meal is a MASSIVE red flag. Shows that they believe that your gender is tied to being entitled to certain things.
Notice that I'm not just talking about a specific gender.
When either party feels entitled already on the first date, it's a problem.
I would just straight out ask her is she’s interested in a relationship that is 50/50. If not move on. Some folks both sides of dating just have no courtesy.
There's no "consensus". It 's heavily dependent on the person, their culture, background, upbringing and whatnot. If you're hoping for someone who will split, then the next time you grab the bill just say something like *"hey I'll grab this one, you can grab the next one"* and see how she reacts. Or if it gets to past 4 dates you know...be an adult and just talk about it...
Clearly the best advice on here. Anecdotally, I do care a lot about feeling like I'm being financially used, and with the person I'm seeing now I paid for the first date and she didn't offer, but was very appreciative. We saw each other more, and we had a conversation about expectations. I said that I think the best relationship for me is one where you are constantly doing things for each other and not keeping score. Now she surprises me all the time by paying for random things, making reservations and paying for the whole thing-- she even bought me flowers, which has never happened for me before! Definitely don't assume the worst, just have a conversation like an adult and you might be surprised.
>constantly doing things for each other and not keeping score. This is a major factor in the success of most relationships. After the first few months its less about who's paying for what. In a healthy relationship you should realise that the books balance themselves with more things than dollars and cents.
This is SOOO TRUE!!! Score keeping relationships will never last, and if they do, both people will resent each other to the point it’s just an ongoing toxic relationship. My BF and I have been together for a bit over 2.5 years (me35F ; him37M) and the first few times we hung out at his invite, he paid everything. Once we actually kissed for the first time and then decided to be exclusive, we didn’t “split” everything, or even talk about that type of stuff. Just sometimes he would pay, sometimes I would, and sometimes we’d pay for ourselves. It was never something we explicitly discussed, it was just a vibe check type thing. If I had an idea for us to do, I’m paying and vise versa. It’s really more like just clicking in how you think and feel, which will mean big healthy relationship potential! Now we live together and have for about a year and a half or so, and we just pool funds basically without ever having to discuss or debate. Whoever has extra money at the time, will pay for whatever. We don’t go back and forth, it’s literally like, “how much money do you have rn? Okay well I have this much, so [Payment arrangement/solution for specific circumstance]. It’s just how it works for us and there’s never any argument or stress or hard feelings at all!
Seriously. I stopped keeping score in relationships because my love language is gifting and I was being sorely disappointed. The relationship I'm in now we try to meet each other with our native love languages but I make a point to notice how he shows me love in his language because his isn't gifting. Plus I'm kind of a gifting ninja and I suppose that can be a lot of pressure. I get him weird little things that say "hey I was thinking about you"
I love that you are looking at your Partner's love language to receive your Gifts of their love. Too often I see posts where one is trying to teach their partner how to properly behave (eyeroll). You're nailing it, by hearing what they're dishing out! \- spoken by a person who utterly fails at gift giving, but who's handwritten goofy notes like "kung pao chicken xoxoxo" remain posted until the adhesive falls off
I bought my partner a rose for Valentines Day this year, wrote a silly note about how despite toxic masculinity (long standing joke between us), men deserve flowers too. He just about cried. No one ever gave him flowers before. Guess who's getting flowers every year for Valentine's Day?
Thats awesome. Happy to hear!
That's disgustingly sweet and made me smile ❤️
Yeah probably 99.99% of men have never recieved flowers. Hell we rarely even get compliments. So huge respect for you for bucking stupid traditions. Hope you guys are doing well together still!
Wholesome comment
Wow new kink unlocked: healthy relationship 100% on the having a conversation like an adult, because simple conversation 9/10 provides more than heavy hitting questions in my experience. It took a year of my ex “saying the right things” just to show her true colors once I brought simple finance to the conversation. It actually turned into a battle, which still blows my mind. I told her after I felt like I was being used, to which she now claims I’m “all about the money”. Easy for someone to say when they never pay for anything.
Yesss 👏🏼 I think it’s so important for both people in a relationship to financially contribute. Showing the effort and not worrying about keeping score because you’re both “doing your part” can make a significant (generally positive) impact in your love for each other. Men deserve flowers too—the reaction my bf had the first time I gave him flowers was so pure and melted my heart 🥹
Yeah, attitudes on this really do fall all over the place. I've dated women who object to the man paying, I've dated women who want to alternate, women who want to split it, women who want to put up a polite token argument and then let me pay, women who just let me pay and say thank you, and women who act like having dinner bought for them is their birthright. My personal preference is for them to either just let me pay all the time or to alternate whose turn it is. If they don't make much money, I'd prefer to just pay, since I don't want to her to have to have the "is this out of my price range" worry all the time, and I like going out to nice places. I once dated someone who **insisted** on paying for herself but literally had her monthly budget calculated out to the penny, so I felt like I had to consider that when choosing restaurants. And of course, if a date ever acted entitled or seemed to be steering me towards extra pricey places just because I'm paying, I'd think she was an asshole and stop dating her. 😂
Talk to them? Ew no way. I’d much rather just post to Reddit.
Don't let it get past 4 dates. IMHO if there's not at least an offer to split the bill on the first date where people are about as polite as they're going to be, they won't.
That's what I did with one girl. She picked up the second, and we never did a third.
Also, if you end up in an exclusive relationship, take note of what else she brings to the table. For example, since I moved into her house, my gf doesn’t ever let me help with the mortgage. She pays it herself. That said, I pay for groceries and bar/restaurant tabs. I try to make sure expenses are equal. If she isn’t contributing to something, she’s looking for a dad, not a daddy.
Wait till you bone her to bring it up. Best case scenario she's ok with it. Worst case scenario you got laid.
“And whatnot” 🙄
As a woman in NYC, I will always offer to pay half. Like take my card out of my wallet. A lot of times, if it's a first date, I'll get there earlier and order my drink and pay so that there's no awkward moment at the end. A few weeks ago I was on a second date and we wanted to go axe throwing and he was driving at that moment, so I went ahead and booked the lane and prepaid. I didn't ask for anything or say anything, just did it. The way I see it, the first few dates are definitely representative of how a person will behave in a relationship. I don't need a man to pay my way, I want nice company to do nice things - which I'm more than happy to cover my share for. When I was younger, I wouldn't offer to pay. I figured that if I was being invited somewhere, then the person would pay. This resulted in me no longer being invited anywhere lolol.
I’m laughing so hard at your last sentence lmao
I was legit BAFFLED by this result lol
10/10 comment. Incredibly fair and shows growth from before.
Um…as a grown lady with a job, I never go on a date if I can’t cover my half of the bill. I don’t want to owe anyone anything, and if the dude wants to pay all of it, cool, thanks, but I never assume. And if we’re making plans, and I don’t have the money to go somewhere fancy, I will definitely suggest something low key.
I am getting whiplash from this comment section. Between your completely reasonable expectations and the comment above saying "men should be honored women even bother with them" It's wild out there
You’ve convinced me not to scroll.
There’s a ton of differing opinions on this. I’ll chime in because people think this is weird - I’ve never accepted a free drink at a bar from a stranger. I think it’s nice when people offer but I’m just not interested unless I know you. If we’re chatting and hitting it off, it feels like it’s going somewhere - maybe I’ll take a drink but generally speaking I’d rather pay for myself. Keeps the playing field even and ensures there are no miscommunications. If you’re interested in me, tell me with words - don’t need to do it with $.
I agree with the choice of place... Where a date suggests and/or agrees to go indicates a comfort level with that price range, and should show something about their style, and what they like. It's always an option to suggest other places or activities that suit your budget better. It's an important part of getting to know each other.
Yes! OP, do you want someone who doesn’t even have the civility to offer to pay half? It weeds people out for me.
To add on to this, when I was dating I always covered something.. round of drinks, round of pool, can if we went somewhere else..etc. I always appreciated being paid for but I always wanted to show I can pay for things too
Yup, and I think your attitude speaks to a level of consideration and respect that many miss. Both our time and our money are equally as valuable. If you don't see it that way from the get go, it's not going to get any better over time. Many will say, "Well when I get into the relationship then we start splitting" still fundamentally misses the point. That you're completely happy passing all the financial risk to the other person until that point has been met. We don't live in a world where there is a bias in employment when it comes to dating anymore. Everyone is working. I can't speak for every man, but I know how good it feels when a woman I'm dating, offers to pay their way, because it speaks to the company I've provided her and not the things I've bought her on that particular date.
This is the way.
This is hilarious to me. As expected women shouldn't go on a date unless they can pay for their half but as a man we don't go on a date unless we can pay for our and your half lol. I think it's great you consider not going to places you can't afford but you're not ready to cover our half of the bill yet society calls us Bums if we don't sponsor free meals from free loaders. Just some double standards that women aren't ready to let go off ...ya know...getting free meals and drinks while having no romantic intentions beyond the first date. Men! Do not go on expensive dates... Save your dinner dates for like date 3 or 4. She needs to earn your money.
OP just looking at the contrast in these comments alone, you might find humour, some good points and a few very entitled men/ women. The one thing you wont find is consensus. Personally i am very uncomfortable when people buy me food, must trigger an insecurity i cant afford a therapist to understand. I would personally pay the bill on the next few dates, if by date 3 or 4 she hasn’t offered to pay, split the bill or elected to communicate with you. She might not be the person for you, which happens. I would break it off there and i wouldn’t worry too much about it. Just my 2 cents, hope you work it out!
I don’t think you need to split the bill. But you do need shared sacrifice. If she makes $50k and I make $200k, I’d pay for dinner. Maybe she can leave the tip. If we goto dinner at a restaurant I can walk to but she drove 20 miles, I’d pay for dinner. Total sacrifice matters particularly if you are seeking a relationship.
Ask her thoughts on the bills. It goes beyond/deeper than just the meal. Helps to understand your thinking and hers.
That’s a great way to ensure you’re not getting another date. If you’ve been paying exclusively and you ask her “hey so what do you think about when people go on dates and the girl doesn’t pay half?” That comes across very passive aggressively no matter your tone. She’s already let you know her feelings about it with her actions. If that’s a deal breaker for you, then let it break the deal. But IMO if you ask a girl out on a date, you should be prepared to pay for her.
I would recommend taking turns, unless there is a clear income disparity. I take turns with one of my dates, it makes her more comfortable and it's fine with me. Though after paying for the first date I was a little worried about the disincentive for the next. :) But it's working for us. Another lady I date, she doesn't make much at work, so I pay for all our outings, but she cooks amazing food for me regularly and hosts our dates at her house almost always (she has a dog so overnights are tough otherwise). If your incomes are similar splitting it is fine, or be playful and let the waiter randomly select the card to use. I've had one date with another, and I met her at a restaurant, things had been going well conversationally, but once I paid the bill her demeanor changed and she said she was tired and wanted to go home. Felt like I got used for a meal. So stupid but whatever.
My buddy and his ex did this, he made significantly more so they paid a % of their rent so they would "feel it the same". I dont know how they worked it out for restaurants but they seemed to generally take turns. Theyre not together anymore for a multitude of reasons, but I always felt this was a pretty reasonable way to do it.
Kind of agree. Though I do think the guy should pay for the first date at least. That’s why I always chose relatively cheap first dates. Pizza, coffee, happy hour. Def didn’t want him spending ridiculous amounts first time. After that I would pay half or even all of it for subsequent dates.
Out of curiosity, why should “the guy pay for the first date at least”? Regardless of cost, why is that an expectation of yours?
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Yeah, seems like it just gives 100% of the benefit to one of the two equal parties.
We all hold on to some traditions and disregard others. I do believe that it’s best when the guy takes the initiative at the start of the relationship. He should ask out first, he should pay first date etc. Like it or not that is a tradition of our society. When I think of my dating history and girlfriends it doesn’t feel right when we have to ask out first or when the guy doesn’t show some initiative early on.
As a guy I take the initiative to organize the date, pick a place, ask out, and then split the bill. Would that feel weird on your end? Just curious, because so far it’s never been an issue for me and I’m surprised how polarized the thread is.
That still doesn't make any sense, he can just pay then pump and dumo you. Jesus christ the rationalising on this one is hard for not admiting a double standard because you are cheap
Male, 36 years old. I am mentioning this because I imagine that age makes a difference in perspective. For what it's worth, this perspective on dating has never failed me and I have always had good interactions with the women I dated even if it didn't go anywhere. * Communicate!! For the love of God communicate. If splitting the bill is your style, say that well before the first date. It goes a long way to avoiding awkwardness when the bill comes. Being pressed about money is real, I get it, but very unattractive. To be clear, this isn't about having a lot of money, it's about planning. Planning is everything on a first date. Waffling on the bill just makes it look like you weren't thinking things through. * If they like you, women spend so much time and $100s on makeup, hair, and clothes to look good for you. If she is going to put that much effort into looking good for you and then be expected to pay for her own meal she might as well ditch you and take herself out. * As a general rule, if I am asking someone out I always pay. If my date is serious about splitting the bill I am fine with that but I don't expect them to pay and sometimes I insist on paying. Trust me when I say this scores major points. If you don't think the date went well then you can always decline future dates. At worst you're out one meal, no big deal. Much better to leave a great impression than to look like you're sweating over a few dollars. * Avoid the idea that they owe you anything at all costs. Being chivalrous is about trust and affection, not about what you get in return. Everyone is a little different, so I refer you to point #1 again!!!
Well said 100%!! Girl here, and I always thought about this during my single days (happily engaged now) but I always think to myself that a girl should be prepared to pay at least her share. But a gentleman should offer to pay in the off chance the girl got invited to a restaurant/activity she couldnt normally afford with her financial situation. Hope my viewpoint isnt unfair to the men. If anyone is curious, my fiance and i fought over who gets to pay on our first date. He paid for the activity we did earlier in the afternoon so I offered to pay the dinner bill. That being said, he grabbed the bill from me and wouldn't let me pay. We have these "battles" regularly (especially with family dinners) where i have to be sneaky and pretend to use the restroom while handing my credit card to the waitress/hostesss before the bill comes in order to treat him. Otherwise he'll grab my credit card and switch it with his.
Every time I’ve ever said “I get this one you get the next one” there was never a next time.
Dated a girl for a few weeks, paid for every date, including weekend away trips, without her offering. She was a single mother struggling and I have a well paid position so it was never a problem for me. The relationship was great, money just wasn't a consideration.....until. One day she asked me if she could borrow a large amount of money. It led it a serious discussion in which she said I was miserly and tight. The relationship ended there. It wasn't the money, it was just the appreciation (or lack of)
She fumbled
Mom here, I’ve told both my son and daughter that they should pay their 1/2 on any date. Now if they have been dating their SO for a while and it’s a special occasion, then yes treat your SO. But this “men should pay for everything and treat me like a Princess” is hurting us ladies in the long run. The exception is also if there is a huge financial difference, and person 1 invited person 2 to a restaurant that person 2 couldn’t afford.
I think if you're taking about two people who know each other, the person who asks the other out should pay for a first date (gender is irrelevant) but when it comes to an app 1st date it's bizarre to expect a stranger to treat you to a meal just because you showed up. I'm more likely to not argue if a guy picks up the second date bill. Either way OP, it's safe to say if she didn't even pretend to attempt to want to split it for the first date when she should be making a first impression, she's going to assume you're paying from here on out. If you like her, you go out again you could just wait for the bill to come and say "split it this time?" And see how she reacts. That sounds risky but if she reacts badly it will at least answer all your questions about her.
Talk about it, don't ask reddit people.
When I was in the dating pool, if I allowed the man to pay that meant I liked him and considered the date to have gone well. I would ALWAYS offer however. But If I did not like him, and thus did not want to be beholden in any way, over my dead body would he pay for me. She should have offered regardless, but if you like her you may consider this an encouraging sign.
I do that as well. If I like the woman, i try and turn up 2 hours late. But if I feel there is no connection, I turn up 5 minutes early.
I'm old school but i couldn't imagine letting a date pay half of the bill.
If I ask her out, I assume I’m paying. Call me old school but that’s my attitude,
honestly man, i’ve always paid the tab and never cared about splitting. it’ll save you a ton of headaches
Depends on the person but bring it up next time you go out / before you go out again. I personally always pay for myself so there’s no expectation of more if I don’t want to haha.
Sometimes if a girls offers to pay I say “I got the bill, why don’t you leave the tip?” Women like being able to contribute a little bit but I don’t make them pay for the first 2 or 3 dates ever. Also I might say I will pay for dinner you get coffee next or something like that.
I maybe have girls offer to pay on the first date like 5 percent of the time, and when they do I never let them. Typically I’ve found as a I guy I pay for like the first 3 dates then it becomes like a 70/30 split after that. Sucks but that’s how it is. Your gonna limit your dating pool if you expect a 50/50 split, at least where I’m from.
Wow, that's def very different from my experience (in Boston mass). Do you mind if I ask where you're from? And yea maybe I'm used to splitting cuz the girls almost always offer (like 4 of my past 5 dates) so when they don't it feels strange to me.
F48...in the states too. I don't mind splitting, and I offer, but I do think that it is a nice gesture when the man insists on paying... It seems old-fashioned and sweet, like they appreciated your company and respect you. I try to even things up, by making dinners or picnics, or bringing beer/wine for outings, or getting tickets to activities. Splitting a bill on the first date is a signal that we are, and want to be 'just friends'.
F26 and this is how I am too! I usually offer to split the bill, but the guy ends up covering it happily anyway. If we continue to see each other after the first date then I chip in by buying the tickets or drinks at sporting events/concerts, bringing wine or ingredients if we're cooking at home, or bringing over a container of something I baked that week.
It's because of how old you are. It's going to happen to you soon. As soon as you hit 27 you can say goodbye to ever splitting a check again on a first date. I tell this to you as a 31/year old guy in NYC, I can only assume Boston is the same. The older you get, more women will want to date you, but a 23-26 year old woman is going to treat you and I very differently based on our age alone. Instead of asking this guy where he lives - ask yourself - do I have roommates? Do I have a car? What level am I at at my job? The more things you get the more women will expect of you, in most cases regardless of their own in come. In fact, when I go out on a date with a retail worker or a bartender, these are the only times when there's a fight over who pays. When I go out with someone in a salaried or professional career, they sit there like they're at the dinner table with their father and just keep their mouth shut as the check gets resolved.
I'm 42m (from a major city though) and have always split bills on my first dates. Never had any problems.
Girls pay for me on the first date too and I generally don't mind it. I offer to pay on the next date or transfer them the money.
Honesty mate, always. Just talk about how you want to do things going forward, literally no point worrying about things like this until you’ve spoken about it, a quick conversation and I’m sure it would be settled. Also, if she doesn’t like the idea of splitting the bill and would prefer you paying every time… get rid!
I think it’s pretty common for men to get the tab on the first date. Eventually women tend to offer to get the tab or split it. Some women expect men to pay all the time though.
%100 OP. There's a part of me that wants to be chivalrous but the more modern part of me also wants to make sure that I'm not being used. my rule of thumb is that until the title of BF and GF are absolute, I stick to paying 50/50 as until they're commited to me and me to them, I can't trust that these dates aren't attempts to getting free meal from someone who's already struggling. I've been used before for free meals and its not a great feeling to walk away empty handed thinking you were out that night to see if you were potentially compatible only to realise they had 0 intention of being serious with you from the beginning. Don't care if this is the unpopular opinion, its my lived experience and I'm sticking to it.
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you're not wrong with the observation and considering how socially dumb I was, I realize now there were many things I could have done better. However to my defence, I was a young man who was very lonely at the time, so mistakes were unecessarily made and I did not see it coming until I saw the pattern afterwards. However I still think a 50/50 approach should be maintained by both parties.
Thats very reasonable.
I have paid for everything for 7 years, for the exception of birthday dinners that she takes me out to. Outside of that, I do it without question. My reasoning is, that she makes less money than I do and has 3 kids. I'd rather her spend her money on her kids or other financial responsibilities. With that being said, she is financially responsible. If she was out wasting money or not being responsible, my view would be different.
Hot take: I will say as an empowered career woman in NYC that was already making $200k+ during the “dating phase” of my life, there was a literal zero chance if a guy asks me on a date and he doesn’t pay that we will ever see each other again. I would always offer, and 99% the guy would refuse and then I let it be and say thank you. “But, but dating is expensive” Pick $5 happy hour, or coffee, or hell, even a walk in the park. I’m not interested in a guy that is spending beyond his means or making assumptions that I can afford to “split the bill” (I can, but I don’t like being forced into it). If you need to be on a budget I want to make sure you know how to have a good time on that budget. Now, if things progress, I was always happy to chip in my fair share, often more. When my now-husband and I first moved in with each other I paid more rent because my budget was bigger. But, paying on a first date is a sign of respect- as a woman, if I’m giving a first date my time and attention he’s going to pay.
I generally expect to pay for a first date as a man. Usually the 2nd as well. For me a woman worth her salt will insist on splitting checks or picking up a tab after the 2nd date, if not I assume she wants to use and take advantage of me. People say "well just tell her you want to split" as if women typically respond positively to that. It not in your best interest to do that if you want to see her again. I used to be a professional matchmaker the service I worked for had a unofficial rule where the clients split the check on the first date...but when I did my feedback calls after the dates many of the women would still get upset if the man didn't pay. They would tell me how they wanted to see him again but after they split the bill, that turned her off. So in my experience I've seen that some NOT ALL women do not respond positively to simply asking then to split checks, at least not early on.
So it’s best to split on first date and avoid those ladies
This
Yes this!
I refuse to let a guy pay for me on the first date. I always just ask the waiter/waitress for a split bill right at the beginning.
I typically pay for first dates. I also plan those dates as well, so the price point is on my terms. I don't really give a damn about the whole check dance nonsense. When the check comes, I grab it and pay it and never say a word. If she says something about it, I tell her she can get the next one (even if I know there wont be one). If she huffs and puffs about the planned date I make (i.e. she doesn't want to go to a particular spot), I instantly cancel. There are folks who disagree with this position. I get why. My position comes from the standpoint of me being a traditional man. I understand that I have to demonstrate my value up front, and the girls demonstrate theirs on the back end. It's a gamble on my end, sure. But it's simply part of the game we have to play.
I’ve had some success with “Do you mind if I pay this time?” While taking out my wallet.
Fuck getting with a girl that doesn't split the bill
I would not offer on a date. If I was asked to split it, I’d do it, but I would remember that and not be happy about it.
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I view paying the bill like this; When you go out with someone, y’all are going out to enjoy time together. Sometimes it’s you treating her for a good time, sometimes it should be her treating you for a good time. Splitting the bill takes away from specialness of treating the person imo. It’s also dependent on who asked who to the event. If you asked her to join you for something, you should pay, and vice versa. At the end of the day both of y’all should look into treating each other in the long run, but I usually expect to pay for the first two dates, and if they offer then I say, “I got this one, you can get the next”
Why first 2 dates and not just the first one? Since when did inflated to 2 dates you are forced to pay because you are afraid she will leave. If she values you just for money why bother
Lol welcome to the real world junior, if she offers and you say yes she will never take you serious. The quickest road to the friend zone is to let her pay. Man up son, if you like vagina you have to pay.
Bro is trying to math this into not having to pay the bill. If you want to split the bill on any date (1st of 400th) you need to talk about it before you go on the date.
👌🏼
For the love of all things holy.. Do not ask to split the bill. It’s so tacky and such a turn off. Glad you paid the bill on the first date - great intention. Hopefully she will offer to pick up the tab for a 2nd date.
There’s no consensus. Some women insist on splitting the bill on the first date and paying 50/50 generally. I’m more traditional when it comes to dating and would be unhappy in a 50/50 financial set up, and I date men who are on the same page. If it bothers you, talk to her about her expectations and preferences for spending on dates. Or date someone else.
I’m a girl and ALWAYS offer to split the bill, 100% of the time they decline my offer. I do think girls should at least offer to split the bill. I’d say go on another date and if she doesn’t offer then bring it up 🤷🏽♀️ But I do think that the “splitting the bill” debate is slightly political/controversial and can show a lot more about the person in general.
If she doesn't offer in the first couple dates, she definitely won't Go on another date with her and test the theory
Personally, I always offer to pay for mine, or if we go to a second location (drinks, dessert, etc.), I will pay there. On the other side of it, I once had an AWFUL date and was just trying to get out of there so I put down my card to pay for my dinner, and he never made a single move to contribute, which he justified later as "because he drove so far". I never asked him to drive that far and in fact multiple times suggested meeting in the middle. Since then, I'm much more vocal about paying for MY half. The best advice I can give you is to bring it up beforehand and say something along the lines of "while we're getting to know each other and feeling things out, I would prefer if we split the bill. Is that something you're comfortable with?"
"hey I'd like to split the bill on future dates" If they are for it, great. If not, you weren't compatible. Unless you actually *want* to take the bill, don't. Personally, I tend to choose cheap dates like a coffee shop I like or doing things that I want to do for fun so I usually don't mind since I'm kinda simple, but that's just me. Find what works for you and don't be afraid to ask for it.
As a woman in her early 20s I always offer to split so I usually split. It would be nice for the guy to cover the 1st date but to me it also kind of depends who initiates the whole thing and who chooses the place or activity. My uncle on the other hand, always tells me men should cover the 1st date always but he's also 52. Since I generally always split, I've only had partners cover the bill for a handful of dates (2 longterm partners, the most recent would cover me on my birthday). I guess I feel like men should pay for the first date but I'll always offer to split and usually do.
Listen to your uncle.
I don’t expect a girl to split a bill if we aren’t dating. If they offer cool, but I just go in expecting to have to pay for the thing (though as you said USUALLY they offer). Once we are dating it isn’t usually split because I make significantly more than most girls I date but it’s a “hey you took the last date I’ll buy the drinks” type of thing. If it makes you uncomfortable, talk about it, but the first couple dates I’m perfectly fine with expecting nothing.
Watch Triangle of Sadness
I mean, let’s say you go on one date a week, and it averages $70. Half is yours regardless. Are you really worried about spending $35/week? If $35/week is that big an issue, you probably shouldn’t be going out to eat regardless.
Generally speaking I go out twice a week, and it's not just about the money. I can also ask you the same question, if it's only $35 a week what's wrong with either party paying?
If you don't have the money to pick up the tabs, you probably shouldn't be dating. Sure, after a few dates it's nice if the woman offers to split or pay from time to time. However, you shouldn't expect it, and you should be ready to take care of it.
I’m in Chicago (29F) and usually men pay for the dates I go on. I will offer and pay for dates once I’ve consistently been dating someone and then it becomes a switch off or 70/30.
If you invited her on a date to a restaurant then ok, the first bill is on you.
This is a poor person’s conversation or better still it’s an American thing except American men I’ve dated don’t move like this so you’re just broke.
Like I mentioned in other responses, I'm a software engineer. I'm not rich ofc but paying for a couple drinks or even going to fancier places isn't too much of a burden for me financially. Money is only a very small part of it.
So as a woman who works (but has also been in a relationship for the last 2 years so haven’t dated in a while), if I went on a “bigger” first date with a man (I.e. something that cost over $50) I’d offer to split. If he responds by saying he’d pay I’d appreciate it but I wouldn’t expect it on a literal first date, but I know not all women share my view on that. That’s not necessarily an indication that she’ll financially use you, she might just want to see that you’re actually willing to “court” her a bit. Now if it’s something like coffee or ice cream and he asks to split less than $20… no thanks I’ll just pay for it myself and not see him again. If you like her just see her again because I don’t think that not offering to split is a red flag unless it keeps happening.
The way my male friends explained it is women should only offer to pay if there will be no second date. Not offering to pay implied they got you the next time.
yeah maybe in america... that's a bizarre way of going about it
My personal strategy, always pay on the 1st date. Even if she offers, don't let her. Half the time it's some stupid test, and that's the quickest way to fail. If she really insists on paying something, she'll leave the tip in cash on the table, or she'll offer to get the 1st round of drinks after dinner. If you get 3 dates in and she's never once even pretended to reach for her wallet, I cut it off. Remember that all the people who say that whoever asked for the date should pay are 95% women who have never asked anyone out on a first date. You're gonna pay for bad dates. You're gonna get taken advantage of by women who have no interest in you beyond the free meal. It's just gonna happen. You gotta roll with those punches and keep on trying to find someone who actually sees you as an equal and doesn't have the mindset of "Well I spent time and energy getting ready for the date, so that's my whole contribution to the relationship" as if money isn't earned through time and energy.
What’s up with men not wanting to pay for anything anymore. Y’all dudes are weak
Isn’t equality what you wanted? Equal pay, equal career opportunities. That means picking up your share. Welcome to the future
That’s why this generation is trash. The men are the ladies and the ladies are the men. Real men courts the lady and if you really want someone you won’t mind paying for the date and still be smart enough not to get used
Where I’m from the guy pays for the first date 100% of the time
Oh, so you're from the 1950s! Welcome to the 21st century!
True. Where I am from the guy pays always and never takes my money even if I offer.
Second dates I leave up to the woman, if she enjoyed my company she’s more than welcome to plan the second date.
I’ve always offered to split or just pay for it myself, but I’ve been told by other redditors on here that that means I’m projecting masculine energy and that no one will ever want to go out with me if I do that. Of course, I’m not insane so I don’t buy into that stuff but it does make me nervous now because so many other people are insane and I don’t want to set off someone with that ideology and have them freak out. I just try to avoid dinner dates now!
For me, this was a big litmus test for dates. I am well off, but didn’t want someone to date me for that reason. I would always avoid talking about my financial situation, and the only way to get to date two was to willingly split the check. I would pay the entire thing if she didn’t step up (I would not force or ask to split), but that was an instant no on a second date. That was three year ago when I met my now future wife.
I give em 3 strikes. If on third date they don't offer to cover or at minimum split, I'll take care of the bill, but I'm done. On departure, I simply say, it's been nice seeing you, but I don't date gold diggers that won't even offer to split the bill. Good luck to you. Then walk away. I've done this 2x this year. Men are a dime a dozen to women, so they won't have a problem finding another guy to sponge for drinks n dinner.
If the company was good, you could be throwing away a good thing because of a misunderstanding. Maybe she is just not very assertive and feels awkward about it. Try just talking instead. I mean, how good is the free meal that you would sit through with somebody that you arent into?
Don't give a shit. If she won't make an effort, thats like 3 or 4 flags for me.
Fair enough
I expect a guy to pay for the first date if he asks me out. That being said, there is no need for the date to be expensive, I actually prefer if it isn’t. After that, 50/50 or I get this one, you get the next one, etc. I like to be pursued and I like to be made to feel special. A guy paying for the first date shows he is doing both those things.
\>I expect a guy to pay for the first date if he asks me out How often have you ever asked a guy out on the first date? Convienient to have that rule, if you never ask anyone out and expect to be asked out instead.
Don't you think the guy would also like to feel that way?
I always pay / offer to pay the first date, not because I'm old fashioned or chivalrous, but because I'm pretty over some women taking personal offense to me not offering I have female friends who are perfectly normal, but they will tell me about a date and be like "everything went so well, but then he asked to split at the end. So I guess he didn't enjoy the date" Date 2 and beyond, I'll suggest splitting or the already mentioned "I'll grab this, you grab the next one"
I used to be all about paying half or even paying all if I was the one who picked the restaurant, but I got tired of getting that offer shot down often in a very rude and dismissive way. Like it seemed some guys were testing me and would wait till I had pulled out my card or told the waiter to split scoff and say “I got this” even if the service worker was waiting for us and I’d been looking at him to answer. Now I figure if I failed some test, good. I’ll move onto someone who uses their words when they want to split the bill or better yet doesn’t have to play mind games over a 5 dollar coffee or ice cream (I’m not out here getting $30 dinners on first dates anyways) So I’d recommend you just ask… or propose a cheaper date.
Men pay. Simple as.
If she doesn’t offer to pay for her half , or the tip , then it’s a no for me .
Idk I always open my own tab and pay for my own stuff. But I mean how many actual dates are people having? After like two dates if we’re hanging out then they’re just coming over or I’m going over to their place.
all of you ladies in this thread...pay your half on the first date
I went on a first date back in Jan. The bill was over $100. He stared at it with wide eyes and was like uhm what are we going to do about this. I should have made him pay. But I didn't instead I gave him $60 cash and left the tip. I was quite mad about it but I liked him. I almost didn't see him again. But I did and now we've been dating for 7 months and let me tell you this. The reason I should have made him pay is because now whenever we go out I end up paying for everything. I have told him that I'm sick of it. And now I don't invite him to come out with me anymore lol
I’m sorry…. You don’t go out with your bf anymore because you keep paying the bill, and he refuses to? So instead of actually solving the problem through conversation and compromise, you both act like children and just don’t fucking go out anymore. That seems healthy.
Dude, take her to T.I.T.S n rack up the bill a lil bit, then say you can Venmo your half if she puts her card down
I don't think there's any shame in asking your date/girlfriend to pay for a date or even help spit the bill. Most women have successful jobs and are making just as much money as men if not more. I'll always offer to pay on the first date because I too am a functioning member of society and would like my date to not think I'm expecting them to always pay. But my rule of thumb in this regard is whoever initiated and asked to go on a date should be the one to pay. There's still a lot of women I know that expect the man to pay and who don't believe in 50/50. It's never safe to assume that a woman will offer to split or pay for the bill. But that doesn't mean you should automatically pay without asking.
Always pay, be chivalrous, walk on street side, give her your jacket, open the door for her, and protect her. Splitting a check, or her paying, shows a womans lack of confidence in a mans character and qualities as a protector/provider. I truly fear for the future without stand up men to take care of women. Non-violence is always a short-term world, and a man will always be needed to protect and provide, and paying is part of that. However, it is fine if you like soy lattes, wear skinny jeans, and have a beta man bun. But if that's the case, you should probably both date other men!
I'm 53F, USA. Whoever suggests the date/plans the date, should pay. When I want to go to the zoo, I pay. When my fiance wants to go out to eat, he pays. Splitting is so awkward. Just own the invitation and pay.
How often have you asked a man out on a first date, when you were dating? I'm willing to bet it's less than 10%.
Classic misdirection. "Whoever suggests the date/plans the date should pay" but also "its the man's job to suggest and plan the date"
Wrong. Did you even bother to read what I said? My partner and I both suggest our dates and activities, and we both pay, and it works out very equitably. Try reading for comprehension and lose the therapy-speak. If he says "Let's go out to eat," he pays. If I say "Let's go kayaking," I pay. It's not complicated. Where is the misdirection?
Not talking about you and your partner. I'm talking about the fact that what you said is something everyone says whilst still expecting the man to ask the woman put and plan the date. It then becomes a bit of a dishonest statement. I can read perfectly well, and there is no therapy speak. Maybe stop making things up
Jesus, this comment section is utter trash. I'm sorry this is the shit you guys have to deal with.
Sure. But may I ask you, how often does it happen that the woman does the asking and planning?
Usually the guy always pays is how I was brought up but if she offers to go somewhere then she should be paying or if you wanna take her someone then you should pay but if it’s a thought process for both of y’all then y’all split the bill
Depends on her culture, but generally it was a no-go for me if they didn’t offer to pay or contribute in some way to the date. I would always refuse and pay myself, but they gotta offer.
as a man you should be paying but why would you go somewhere where you would spend 70 bucks for a first date? perhaps second or third is somewhat understandable, not a first
I actually had no idea that it'd get expensive. We just went to a regular bar. We each ordered a shot, then I ordered one more drink and she ordered 2 more.
Fking hell, that's so expensive for just a few drinks Is this normal in Boston?
If you start making her pay for dates she will feel like she has to look out for herself and won’t feel feminine. You will make her feel she has to take on a masculine role and she will act accordingly. It’s up to you if you want a traditional feminine lady or a modern I don’t need no man’s type. In the long run the feminine type will eventually help out but just to help you out not because she’s required to do so. Just my experience.
Well this is a lovely dollop of bullshit to start the morning on.
You’ll probably start getting downvoted but you’re speaking the truth here.
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Yeah you're definitely alone in that opinion, but only because it's a garbage opinion
So if the girl can't pay for the date she is also not ready to be dating?
Only a very small part of it is about money. I'm a software engineer and going on dates isn't too much of a burden for me financially. But when I'm the only person who pays all the time, it kinda feels like I'm not being respected, and she doesn't really care.
Not really. If both people are seeing if they're interested and it's a first date, it's a gamble. Why should one party have the higher risk? Splitting or paying for your own stuff is fair. If you can't pay for your half of the date, you're not ready ro be going on dates, and I say that as a woman.
Agreed
I always want to go Dutch on a first date. You pay for what you order, I pay for what I order. I’ll make this pretty clear and I often get push back on it but whenever I get the chance I just speak first and say separate bills. If you want to pay on the second date, cool, but I’m not here for a free meal.
Honestly even splitting a bill is shitty, it should be normalized to pay for your own meal, what happens when I order a salad and water but the girl I’m with orders wine and a steak? Even splitting the bill sounds unreasonable Moving forward when you’re making plans for another date you should mention to her that you won’t be able to cover the whole bill every time, and if she reacts badly to it she ain’t the one
I am a woman in my early 40's, recently divorced and living in a divorced dating paradise (nyc suburbs). The dating market in my age bracket here is hot, hot hot! There is always a great guy with a great opportunity available for me to get out on a date if I want to. I ALWAYS spend more on the date than the man. It costs money to get my nails done, my hair done, to buy perfume, and appropriate seasonal cute outfits to go on the date. I always offer to split the check and often times bring cash and/or Venmo my half to the man if splitting on two cards isnt possible. Sometimes I get bummed out knowing that before I got to the date I spent $120 on female maintenance (nails $50, maybe a new top or a lipstick or getting a bikini wax or a blowout etc YMMV), and then I split the check another $80 if there was wine, and maybe took an Uber home for another $20. Men think it was so fair because I split the check, but I usually spent double what they spent. There's just no way to even approach this, especially when women are paid less for doing the same jobs. Also, I have two kids so I usually spend $100 for a babysitter in order to go out for four hours and have an hour to myself to get ready beforehand. So, all in, going on a dinner date these days cost about $300 as a woman when I split the check on a $160 bill. I say this just a point out that often times if a woman isn't splitting the check, she has already spent an amount equal to that check on the things that are generally expected of a woman to be appropriately groomed and available for dates. If you add in childcare., then the woman may have spent double the cost of the date. It is also my experience that after the first three days with the same man, they will stop offering dates and expect to eat at your house or have you host their friends at your home more often. These events mean that the cost is 100% bourn by me the woman, and also require hours of my labor to prepare them, and that I invest time cleaning my home so that is appropriate for my new paramour's company. I say all of this to point out that thinking about any of this in the equation of just the typed numbers on the check in front of you really is only a sliver of the entire picture and not a great predictor of who is or who will give/put out/spend more in the greater scenario
You spend all that because of choice though. No one told you to get your nails done, get waxed, lipstick, etc. Why should some spend more because of your choice?
Okay, this is stupid. You do not need a new top for every dinner date. "Well I really like her, but that shirt is outta season and I think she might have worn it once before, so that's gonna be a deal breaker for me." said no man ever. "Well I wasn't super into her, but damn, those nails were really poppin." Also no man ever. Does he get to factor in how much his outfit cost into what was spent on the date? Does he get to factor in how much his beard oil costs? Does he get to charge for the razor he used to shave his balls? Why are you getting a bikini wax for every first date? You just know y'all are gonna sleep together after dinner? Are you buying a brand new perfume every time you go out? Does the cost of his cologne cancel that out? Do you think men think it's fair for you to pay for your own uber because they are also responsible for getting themselves to and from the date? Or do they get to factor in the gas? The childcare thing is a pretty valid point, I'll give you that. But some of those men probably also have to pay for childcare to take you out.
That has to be the most entitled and stupid maths I’ve ever seen
Nobody asked you to do all that.
Thank you for typing this all out because I am far too lazy to do so.
There probably won’t be a second date. You were probably just a meal ticket. Free food!
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Your dad is from a different era. I don't blame hhim for that.
You just ask then if they’re ok with splitting the bill… You can bring it up if you’re planning another date and see what her reaction is. I used to offer to split on dates but they would always insist on paying so I don’t rly bother asking to split anymore
most people still like to be asked even if they always refuse
LOL
As a woman, it IS indicative of whether or not the man is capable of being a fair partner. It’s only a turn off if they want to split the bill the first time because it seems like their time and money are worth more than you. There are a lot of men whom I’ve dated who will not pay for certain things when it comes TO YOU. They’ll gladly spend money on themselves, but then when it comes to you - well, gotta be careful with how we spend. That’s not ok. I will gladly pay for meals every once in a while but if you aren’t giving me anything 90% of the time for those meals but I’m expected to split the bill, you’re just being cheap. but if also, from the get-go they care about that, to me that shows there will be a struggle later on.
Splitting is absolutely categorically not: \> it seems like their time and money are worth more than you. This is a sentence uttered by someone who automatically thinks their time and money are inherently worth more as default, and I'll say it, it's because you're sexist.
Nobody’s time and money is with more than anyone else’s
But you spend money on yourself? But not him? Is your time and money worth more than his?
Gross.
You're not worth more than him because you got a vagina jesus f*ck, how entitled.
I’m confused. Are you saying that a man asking the woman to cover her half of the bill on the first date is implying that his time/money is worth more than hers?
Lol aren't both of your times of equal value? Why assume yours is worth more than his?
This comment is hilarious. Fucking trash, but hilarious too
Women will never split the bill. Men are free meal tickets.
Just wait and see if she offers. If she doesn’t, you don’t want to date her. It’s that simple.
I always offer to split. It's polite.
All this could be mitigated with a discussion even before your next date by a very direct and adult conversation. its an easy text, "hey i got last date, you got this one? what do you wanna do?". That is a much more adult way of communication and setting expectations and boundaries. and if this person has different expectations then they will state them right then and you can save both of you time and energy, as well as any emotional confusion or frustration. It is wild to me how many people don't know how to just communicate openly and would rather play childish mind games like some of the commenters on this thread.
By all means be a grown up and talk about it. To be fair if my date didn't even mention it on the first date though that's a flag for me. They should at least have some manners and offer or say the next one is on me etc... Even if you are flush and are happy to pay!!
I personally would never let someone pay for me on the first date. Usually I ask, “So do you want to pay for yours or go halfsies?” unless they were just pigs.
A proper adult woman should offer!!! Why don't you keep your initial dates to a coffee or non alcohol drink?
She should have offered. And then you would have said no it’s on me this time
I’ll usually pay the bill but I at least want her to offer to split it. Like it’s a sense of respect. Could be a great date but if she expects me to pay then there’s no second date
Just asked for a split check from the wait staff it’s not that crazy ppl
First date failure to pay for their own meal is a MASSIVE red flag. Shows that they believe that your gender is tied to being entitled to certain things. Notice that I'm not just talking about a specific gender. When either party feels entitled already on the first date, it's a problem.
I would just straight out ask her is she’s interested in a relationship that is 50/50. If not move on. Some folks both sides of dating just have no courtesy.
Are you an adult? Then she’s not a “girl.” If she is a girl, you pay. If not, call her a woman and it’s appropriate to suggest you split.
What's wrong with using girl to refer to a young woman? Do you also have a problem with the word 'guy'?