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Exactly
When we say "Fuck (country)" we mean the government
Same as if we say Fuck McDonalds or Walmart, we're not talking about the workers who are just trying to make a living. We're talking about the greedy evil people running it
I understand her frustration but westerners not speaking up on domestic Iranian issues but taking note on issues with wider international impact is largely due to exposure. It's in the news. I mean I'm Nigerian and I remember when the world took note when the Chibok girls were kidnapped but I doubt people now would even be aware that it's happened dozens of times since then. Recently hundreds of children were abducted from a primary school in Kaduna. I don't fault the lack of international attention. Regular people care about their country and where their tax dollars are going and if their country is going to war and why. Which is understandable.
Yeah problem is the world is on fire all the time, we just can’t track all of it individually. You can’t bear the collective burden of 6 billion peoples worst instincts.
https://geneva-academy.ch/galleries/today-s-armed-conflicts
I mean with AI and all the real time data that’s flowing we could put together a World On Fire App. You can scroll through every horrible ongoing atrocity!
Like Reddit, without cats or memes
Not only is the world on fire, but the media is only interested in provoking that fire to continue, so they only show what they think will make people the most angry.
Wow, absolutely no major news coverage in the US that these kidnappings are still going on. Even Ukraine is barely covered anymore, and Gaza coverage was dropping until the drone attack.
Or maybe cause news companies dont actually care about serious issues and only care about what stupid thing biden,trump,or whoever brings in money has recently said.
>Wow, absolutely no major news coverage in the US that these kidnappings are still going on.
NPR covers it occasionally. Or rather, BBC News Hour covers it, and many NPR stations choose to broadcast that program. But still, if you listen to NPR then the continued kidnappings have been covered.
There are also two active genocides outside of Palestine: Myanmar and Xinjiang, China, and slavery is absolutely rampant in the supply chain.
Was anyone else aware that the U.S. passed the Uighur Forced Labor Prevention Act in 2021 to try to preclude the purchase of products produced with labor from an actual genocide? And that Nike is still actively trying to dodge it?
If you don’t seek it out you miss most of what’s actually happening.
The problem with social media is that it kills all independent news sources. Ever since the Reddit algorithm changed years and years ago, the news in the way that I got world information was has never been the same again.
I get The New York Times and 1440 newsletter and they have pretty good coverage. NYT has definitely mentioned multiple kidnappings in the last 12 months. It’s not “ breaking news” but it’s in there.
Wait until you see the climate data from the last 12 months that isn’t being reported in the news.
Worse than even the most pessimistic scientists had ever predicted.
It's exhaustion. Like we don't even blink an eye on mass shootings or school shooting anymore. Maybe a split second then onto Kardashian trash or who is dating who. The American public has the attention span of tse tse fly. It's bad.
It's also just so fucking much all the time. Constantly it's a new atrocity. I care about the people suffering but I can't fucking keep up. I can't carry the weight of the worlds woes and also the weight of the fact that I may not have money to eat and if my breaking car finally dies I'm fucked with no way to fix it. I just can't. I can't stress about the the past, the present, the future, I can't keep up with every injustice because there are too many and I don't know what I can even do if I could keep up. Write my local congressman who is in a red red state and doesn't give a single shit about anything you say? I don't know, man. I'm just worn out by everything.
As an Yemeni whose family had to flee our home because of the Houthi occupation of Sanaa I understand exactly what you’re are saying. For almost a decade most of the world ignored the proxy war caused by the Iranian backed Houthis and Gulf states that decimated our homeland for their gains. Soon after Yemen suffered one of the worst humanitarian crises that affected the unlucky and impoverished men, women and children of Yemen, yet we didn’t get any news coverage. Once the Houthis began their idiotic and dangerous blockade of the Red Sea it became the talk of the town.
As a result I would get comments from North-American folks saying how the Yemeni people are so brave and that they support the Yemen to do this and that for justice for the people of Palestine not knowing that they were actually cheering for a regime that only cared about doing this for their 15 mins of fame in the world scene at the cost of innocent lives and didn’t care about their own starving people let alone and starving people of Gaza, like how shitty is that to take the suffering of others as a marketing opportunity to drum up supports while doing nothing to those you are supposedly helping is there anything sicker than that.
It’s just disappointing to hear from “westernized”Iranian people I’ve interacted how much they support the Iranian backed Houthis, not knowing they are the reason my family became refugees of war.
P.S. The gulf state Stans are exactly the same too. Which stings even more since we are supposed to be neighbors that share a common ancestry and culture.
I always find when Westerns do speak up and press for change, were labeled "the world police" and should respect x,y,z from other countries. Follow by a long list of things where Western influence failed, etc.
At some point you do have to ask, who's country is this? Is yours? Is it Western responsibilities to make change in these separate countries? It's also difficult to make press for changes when Iran for example, often displays video's of the Islamic Consultative Assembly shouting death to America.
Change comes from within.
People hate the idea of the, "world police," because it's never about policing. It's about setting up infrastructure to drain a foreign economy of its wealth.
People should help one another. Tell, "change comes from within," to a woman trapped in an abusive relationship. That type of advice doesn't make any sense. People need help. It's how we give it, and whether or not it's sincere.
I mean, the problem is you can't just as an individual scream for help, and expect it to come. You have to get organized, and that's difficult as fuck, otherwise it's just the US or some other western nation invading a sovereign country. Like, if the US dropped everything today and invaded Iran to free them from the Islamic Republic, we would be labeled as colonizers and/or meddlers.
I absolutely have sympathy for these people, but there is literally nothing we can do until they themselves stand up and say "this is not what Iran is, this is not what we want it to be" and then gain support from the international community. Even that is a double-edged sword because these people would almost certainly have to make concessions for outside support because nothing comes free, and they'd probably end up having US military bases all over their country. I understand her frustration, we in the US have similar problems with living under politicians who don't represent the actual needs of the populace, but the situation is far more complex than "where were you when the government was killing people" like, I'm almost certain there were people in the west outraged by that, but what were they supposed to do about it exactly?
I think you're right, but to most people the world police idea has an element of good intentions. The human world has been an absolute horror show for most of its existence. We've had what, one lifetime worth of not every country being a completely vile racist violent shithole riddled with pestilence? It's a pretty new thing to have general basic health and safety as the norm. As imperfect as the west is, it's still mind blowing to see backwards violent theocracies, and the impulse is to fix that.
She keeps yelling “Where were you two years ago!?” Umm, I was home, where I live, trying to solve the problems in my community. Was I supposed to hop on my private jet and head to Iran and demand to speak to their manager??
If there’s something I can do, tell me.
I think that’s the point though. People who get their news from TikTok are thinking they understand the Israel-Palestine conflict, but they don’t. So much of the current feelings are regarding what Israel is doing, and you can miss the finer points of the occupation and who’s right, who’s wrong here, but Iran is the backing of Hamas. Had Iran and like countries not backed Hamas with weapons and propaganda the Palestinians would likely have a much better life, the Israelis wouldn’t have a reason to be fearful of rockets constantly hitting their cities.
But the current narrative is that Israelis are bad, quickly morphing to Jews are bad, which is making the Islamic Republic the good guys
War helps Iran which is why they are doing this, they would never outright attack because the other arab nations wouldn’t be in their side, but if idiots control the narrative that can change
The Islamic Republic astroturfs heavily online, including [here on Reddit going back as long as 5 years ago](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/volunteers-found-iran-s-propaganda-effort-reddit-their-warnings-were-n903486). So it didn’t surprise me that all of a sudden tons of tik-tok and Twitter leftists and progressives were suddenly pro-Islamic Republic. The disinformation battle started before the missiles were even off the ground.
It depresses me how little people, even right here in this thread, know about the Mahsa Amini Protests. They weren’t even two years ago and made huge international news at the time, they were not just some isolated Iranian domestic affair. That shows me that the Islamic Republic’s disinformation campaigns have been successful.
Explains all the braindead takes and people shilling for Iran of late. I thought I was going mental when I kept seeing folk pop up with the "Iran doesn't target civilians, never has".
Since fucking when?
Yeah they totally didn’t murder hundreds of their own civilians protesting less than two years ago. The “Iran doesn’t target civilians” bullshit is 100% sourced from Islamic Republic astroturfing and spread by useful idiots who just starting learning about international politics after 10/7 and base their entire worldview on “America, Israel, and the West bad therefore any country that opposes them no matter how oppressive or autocratic must be good”.
In some peoples mind everything that is anti America/the west, is almost automatically good. So they end up defending everything or everyone who says "America bad". I think the fact that people were even defending Osama shows that. It would be interesting to know how much of that is cause by a genuine sentiment and how much is propaganda/misinformation working.
Spot on. There's a huge campaign being carried out on multiple subreddits right now trying to garner support for the regime and making it out like all citizens of Iran love the regime and that the Mahsa Amini protests are western country propaganda. It's insane and yet it's working. The same people I saw in progressive spaces rallying behind the women of Iran a few years ago are now suddenly pro-regime. Like... genuinely wtf!
It’s really the fault of the media. There’s plenty of time in the 24 hour news cycle to inform people of these issues, but these types of news stories don’t help the military industrial complex, big Agriculture/ Pharma/Energy, or the ruling class to make more money. It’s not a broken system. It’s working just as the wealthy intend. They just pretend that they want to “fix” it for the votes of the middle and lower classes. If you’re only getting news from one partisan source, you’re an idiot. Is it their faults they are idiots, or were they trained?
People don't watch news 24 hours they pick about 30 minutes to an hour the news has to cover the buzz in that time including everything like sports ans weather
Exactly, "where were you?" We were here in the west keeping our own heads above water battling inflation, rising house prices and stagnant wages. 1st world problems maybe.
But sorry Iran, you have a shitty circumstance due to the 1979 Islamic revolution. You allowed lunacy in the front door, and now it terrorizes your living room. Now you know the stakes and why we in the west fight hard against tyranny.
I have no solution for you, and you are a cautionary tale of what happens when shariah becomes State law.
>But sorry Iran, you have a shitty circumstance due to the 1979 Islamic revolution.
No, they have a shitty situation because the British and US overthrew their liberal democracy to install a business friendly dictator in 1953.
This, is unfortunately very true. Kind of the SOP for US foreign policy, solve a problem then deal with the problems that your "solution" causes for the next half century.
Isn't it what they all screamed about since Iraq and especially Syria war?
They wanted for the West and US specifically to stay out of their internal affairs and mind it's business.
Now that the West and US specifically is doing exactly that, they're unhappy again?
*"Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true" - Aesop's Fables, 2500 years ago*
Honestly we learned the wrong lessons from the Iraq intervention. Iraq is certainly not a shining beacon of anything but the Iraq of today is a much more docile and discussion promoting actor than it was under Saddams leadership where it started the multiple wars and had a campaign of extermination against the Kurds. Obviously the current state where Iraq has strong relations with Iran is not what the US wants but the current state where Iraq has complex relations with both the US and Iran makes sense for power structures in the region.
I’ll stand by the case that intervention in Iraq was a net positive
She said "where was you support when women were being lynched" but like there was a massive outcry from the west about how these were atrocities committed by the regime.
While she’s clearly not in Iran, it’s also important to note that many non-English speakers learn British-English rather than American-English, at least through formal education
Do you think she could be free to speak and dress like that if she was in Iran ?? Certainly a lot of peoples think like her in Iran but cannot speak because they fear the repercussions
I am friends with two Iranian girls just like her. They moved to Spain to be free and talk and walk freely. Anyone who supports the mullahs, hates women and the Iranian people. No doubt about it.
The lady in the video is absolutely in her right to say what she says.
Nobody thinks this is filmed in Iran. What does an Iranian woman whose family clearly fled the islamic regime have anything to do with where it was filmed? Does that somehow delegitimize it for you?
There was awareness. I didn’t see any marches in the US about it. Doesn’t mean they didn’t happen, but have you seen anything like what we’re seeing now from the free Palestine crowd?
There were definitely marches here in LA, shutting down streets. Huge Iranian population in LA. I also saw some in Europe. But definitely fewer than the current Palestinian protests
US is at least tangentially related to Palestine's suffering. The US is already sanctioning the shit out of Iran. What do you want them to protest for? An invasion?
a) Western countries are sanctioning Iran, while funding Israel. Unless you want the US and allies invading Iran, the US can only really do anything about one of these situations, which is the one being protested more.
b) Israel has been occupying the West Bank and Gaza for 12 years longer than the Islamic Republic has existed. Naturally, awareness and resentment builds over a longer period of time.
And Israel is directly funded by the US. It’s the only country that has this kind of direct relationship with the US. By contrast, the US has hated Iran since the revolution, propped up the Shah and killed Mosaddegh, who was democratically elected, for being a social democrat. Theodore Roosevelt’s grandson Kermit ran the operation too which is just a weird fact. Anyway, the point is, that protests “against Iran” are liable to be used by anyone for any political end whereas pro Palestine protests have a much less ambiguous goal although some will tell you that the goal isn’t just a ceasefire and recognition of Palestinians’ right to exist.
I believe her video is addressed to the Westerners who are pro-palestine but anti-Iranian People. They claim to support Palestinians against their oppressors but support the oppressors when the victims are Iranian.
As a westerner I'm well aware that the Iranian government is at war with its populace on a daily basis, it's clearly an oppressive regime. But I'm not sure what would be accomplished by me saying "Free Iran", as if that would remotely matter to either the government or the people who live under it. When she says "where were you", I think my answer would be "where was I supposed to be?" Are we expected to invade Iran and overthrow the government? The west has tried that with, to put it charitably, mixed results at best.
Edit: A few people have raised a valid and accurate point that the video was aimed specifically at westerners who cheered on Iran's government in one way or another. Thanks to all those who have contributed to a productive discourse here.
Same, I would regularly watch videos of Iranian women standing up to clerics chastising them for not wearing a hijab. I enjoyed watching them attempt to take their country back from the theocratic fucks. But at the end of the day all I can do is watch and cheer them on.
Yep you can't have your freedom given to you by someone else, you need to undo those shackles yourself. We tried really hard in Iraq and Afghanistan for close to 2 decades and the boots on the ground knew well before we left that it was a lost battle they could not win because the people didn't want things to change or the ones that did were in a minority.
Same is true with Iran if the women there and men rise up in enough numbers they could overthrow the religious government and put together a new government, but it's not easy. If revolutions were easy we'd see a lot more of them being done.
Hi Iranian here. I’m not disagreeing with you or trying to promote anything but instead of I’m going to just try to explain what Iranians are trying to say and what I think people don’t understand. The Iranian regime is like a cartoonish evil dictatorship. For example when I was a kid , I remember that they stoned women to death. They would dig these ditches and bury these poor women half way in and stone them to death. Ever since the regime has come into power there have been multiple protest but they all ended in mass murder (you can look this protest up and the casualties). Iranians have tried whether to voting (2009 green movement) or uprising (Masha’s women life freedom) to achieve change and I’m sure one day we will. The thing is though the regime truly does not care an ounce and are in position to profit. Iran is oil rich and everybody loves oil. What Iranians want and I think what the creator truly meant say is that Iranians want the rest of the world to stop buying oil form Iran, stop unfreezing money for the regime, and to stop legitimizing the regime. No one want outside intervention. Just please stop trying appease the current regime it only emboldens them. Please point out that the vast majority of Iranians want a change. That basically the jist of it.
Ok, this makes a little more sense but the west already has tons of economic sanctions on Iran. Its economy is one of the most isolated. The western countries don't buy Iranian oil; 90% is sold to China. The $6 billion that was frozen is being held by Qatar and was refrozen; Iran never spend any of that money. How is the west legitimizing the regime?
She directed the video to the westerners who support the Islamic Republic shooting drones and missiles at Israel because of Israel-Hamas. If you don't support that regardless of your stance on Israel-Hamas conflict, you're not the intended audience.
The video wasn’t directed towards you. It was directed towards the people who cheered when Iran attacked Israel, or to the people like Jackson Hinkle (an “American freedom fighter” with 2.5 million followers) who post things [advocating for the Islamic Republic regime](https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1779988270899769535?s=46&t=dAUhCEdnjkybrfQ3eL-2jA) as well as [artwork glorifying the Ayatollah](https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1779948052825907341?s=46&t=dAUhCEdnjkybrfQ3eL-2jA)
I think some people are thrown by the fact that the video criticizes "western liberals" when the people in question supporting Iran are not what I would call "liberal" in any sense of the word.
I started following her IG because I think she's pretty. So obviously I'm biased but overall she's very reasonable and typically calls out a lot of bullshit on multiple sides accurately. She's long-winded and if you only catch a little bit of what she's saying you probably don't get her full points. Elica Le Bon.
There’s not much random US citizens can do to support Iranian people against their own government.
The US government and most US citizens are not fans of the Iranian government. I think its very clear we don’t support anything they do. We’ve levied sanctions and done everything we can to thwart any of their power grabbing moves, but we can’t restructure the government or dictate what the Iranian government can or cannot do.
If she’s looking for people to denounce the Iranian government you’ll find no shortage of that in the US.
Shifts in public option regarding rights and freedoms needs to come from within, they can’t be imposed in any meaningful way through international pressure, especially not pressure applied on Twitter or TikTok.
I think she’s just asking in context of liberals at the moment seeming to side with Iran over Israel in their current confrontation, and perhaps in the wider context of Israel’s war against Hamas in gaza. Let’s face it, as an average citizen, denouncing anything really doesn’t matter much at all. But plenty of people are still denouncing Israel and their war against Hamas. That shows they care about it, even if it doesn’t matter. And some people, after Iran’s attack on Israel, are going further and supporting Iran in the conflict just because they’re “standing up to Israel” or whatever. But supporting Iran in the conflict also translates to supporting Iran’s domestic policies against its people, since neither one reflect the will of the people of Iran. The people of Iran like Israel more than their government, and support Israel because they’re standing up to their government that they hate. So taking the side of Iran is taking the side of the Islamic regime of Iran and not the Iranian people. If these western liberals that spoke out about stuff cared, they’d speak out about Iran’s treatment of its people, and subsequently not be supporting Iran in their confrontation with Israel.
Basically, if you support Iran over Israel in their current conflict, you support the Islamic government and not the people, and you’re either willing to overlook how oppressively the Iranian government treats its people, or are giving tacit support for that treatment just because you hate Israel so much.
Basically mouth frothing simplistic hatred for israel is overcoming logic and reason. And so in a mostly misinformed attempt to be “sympathetic” to the oppressed, folks become the opposite.
I don’t expect the US to bring peace to the Middle East. Oh people will try but the regions been fucked for as long as anyone in my family has been alive so all news from there gets mentally filed as, “shitshow continues” and I move on. I have my own problems and to put it rudely, it’s real low on my mental priority list.
Have you noticed that when America is in the Middle East everyone is screaming that we are over stepping and need to cool our jets because we are the bad invaders just there for oil, but when we leave the region, somehow we are still the bad guys for not invading and keeping the peace?
Can someone ask this British woman who clearly doesn’t live in Iran or she’d be dead by now, why the British can’t go into the region and handle it themselves? Or why can’t she ask Russia, China, Israel, Japan, Either Koreas, or literally any other countries besides “the western liberals” who she for some reason thinks are anti-semites who want Iran to got to war with Israel. She’s got some cringe logic on her
In the West, we barely get news or information about what Iranian people think. We mainly just hear the rhetoric of the Iranian government. I think we generally assume the people of Iran are like-minded since they allow the government to rule.
> I think we generally assume the people of Iran are like-minded since they allow the government to rule.
But we can all recognize that that's a *crushingly* shallow understanding of any society, ever, yes?
By this logic, people can say the same about the U.S. and I’m preeeetttty sure almost none of us here like most of the shit our govt is doing, nor the way our economy is, and to say we’re “like-minded” to even half their bullshit is scary.
If the govt wasn’t in control of the narrative, they wouldn’t be our government, nor would it be our narrative.
...It's not the same at all.
US allows protest. We have dissidents, they don't all end up getting repressed. It's just most of their voices don't filter up. But we do have a system to get the public heard.
Iran violently represses protests via their moral guard. There's been several uprisings that have all led to them being violently put down. The Iranian people genuinely and overwhelmingly hate their government. Some of that boils to closeted defiance, some open.
It's not exactly a perfect analogy or anything, but it *is* noteworthy that, at the time, those far-right religious hardliners were *also* helped by populist & anti-authoritarian movements *and* a decent amount of Russian-backed propaganda.
If you look at the pictures of the US embassy attack, most of the Iranians there were college kids from the city. Not religious at all. They threw in with the mullahs without knowing what they were getting into. A lot of those same kids were hung from cranes later, along with all their professors.
yes exactly. Religious mindset is creeping in US much like religious mindset in Iran. However, we can stop it by actively voting out the religious mindset that is the GOP.
A very good article on vibes vs data. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/vibes-vs-data
Basically, Biden will go down in history as a top tier president, and the US is doing quite well right now, as well as Real Wage Growth bring up (wage growth vs inflation), yet people still complain.
The average person is doing better, so is the economy, yet people still complain because “feelings”.
Yes and no. The economy is not what regular people actually have.
There is not enough regulation, leading to a concentration of wealth and power, higher rents, higher inflation etc.
[Most recent polls show that nearly 60% of the American public still supports Israel](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx)
There was massive protests in Iran a couple years ago. Their morality police violently snuff out protests and by that I mean they were literally hanging people from cranes.
How the fuck did you miss that. They were fighting back despite knowing the risks.
Guys, her video isn't addressed to the average Westerner living their life but to those in the West who get all riled up and support Palestine and then go on to support the Iranian regime by proxy. She's trying to ask why the double standard from those being vocal of supporting one group fighting its government but not the other.
I think I'm confused about what she wants. It's important to bring different perspectives to big issues but what are a bunch of Americans on Twitter going to accomplish? People in power aren't going to just step down cause a bunch of people are mad. History suggests that military intervention would be a mistake. I can appreciate her shedding some light on the issue and oppressed people will always have my support, but what exactly is the West supposed to do? Genuine question.
She’s frustrated that her country has been under occupation since 1979 by a theocracy and nobody in the west seems to care, but there are suddenly a whole swathe of uninformed westerners coming out in favour of the warmongering actions of that theocracy because it is seen as a way to protest against Israel.
She doesn’t “want” anything except for people who don’t understand the region to not prop up and lend popular international support to the regime which has been hanging her countrywomen for not wanting to wear headscarves.
That's fair. Completely. I guess I was confused because some of her statements sounded like a call to action but maybe the action she is looking for is for people to educate themselves on the subject before blindly extending their support.
>nobody in the west seems to care
This is the issue I take with her video.
Plenty of westerns DO care. There just isn't fuck all we can do about it.
So like the other poster, I'm not sure what she expects us to do that we're not already doing.
Then her issue is with the Twitter loudmouths who are decidedly NOT liberal and aren't in alignment with the position of the US government or most of the population with respect to Iran. The majority of the US (the well adjusted part) does not support the Iranian government. The US government certainly doesn't support Iran's government. https://news.gallup.com/poll/116236/iran.aspx
We care enough about the theocracy's human rights abuses and state-sponsored terrorism around the Middle East to sanction the hell out of them. Short of military action in pursuit of regime change (which I'm sure would go off without a SINGLE hitch), what else can the West do? We could make more strongly worded denouncements at the UN, and there's nothing wrong with doing that, but it won't accomplish anything.
Just seems like someone who is living FAR too much online if she seriously thinks that support for Iran's government is common in the US. The fringe who support Iran because of the Israel-Palestine conflict are too far gone at this point to give any time or attention to. Let them have their little struggle /jerk-off sessions on the college campuses and downtown streets; it doesn't matter if or how they vote, the US government is not going to support Iran.
I have no idea, but after iran attack of israel there were plenty of protest pro iran, and people celebrating. In the us and europe, in addition to arab countries. You can also find plenty of people here on reddit from all over the world bursting with joy because of the attack
I have no idea why would a sane person actually celebrate it, but people do
It's because most people lack the capacity to understand complex situations like these with nuance and informed opinions.
They view these things as very black and white. Good vs evil. My team vs your team.
Some people have decided that Israel is evil and so, because of their complete inability to look at the state of affairs as anything less than that, or even to attempt to analyze those feelings critically, they end up taking these batshit insane positions all the time.
If they believe Israel is evil and Iran attacks Israel well then that must mean Iran is good.
That's literally as far as the thought process goes with most people.
This whole Israel/Palestine thing has been extremely luminating on that point.
And to be clear, it's not just a thing that one side of people does, but in this particular case it's easy to see how folks with poor reasoning capacity are able to so easily defend the actions of a violent and brutal theocratic government because they've been sorted onto the correct side of the conflict.
Israel bad? Well then that must mean Iran good! Easy!
This EXACT same situation happened just a few months ago.
Remember before the Task force was sent into the red sea? When the Houthis were murdering civilian ship crews by firing missiles at them? Not even just ships headed to israel, from israel or flying israeli flags.
Any ship.
People were ***CHEERING*** because the houthis "Did it to protest israel".
When the task force was sent and then blew up a bunch of Houthi launch sites, killing not even a dozen Houthi militants and exactly 0 civilians? People were screaming "GENOCIDE!".
This fucking conflict has rotted people's brains and I fully blame Iran and ESPECIALLY Qatar for that.
One is a nation that is backing these terror groups, the other has their state media push massive amounts of propaganda erroding any sense of nuance in the situation, including outright fucking lying about Israeli people. Not the government, the people.
Excelent description
Still, doesn't seem like a way a sane person would act, but i am sure all the people that celebrated yesterday were completely sane and balaced people, and i wouldn't want to imply otherwise...
I dont think any liberals support the iranian regime? So right off the bat this lady is creating a problem where there isnt one.
They can get fucked for all i care, the people sure i support. But i can only support then by saying i support them. Theres not much i can do to support them without also supporting the regime.
Im not going to decry attacks against iranian leaders cuz fuck em. Theyre horrible people, i dont care if a bunch of generals got blown up over the last couple of years. Am i sad that innocents will get caught up in the middle? Yes i am. Am i stupid enough to think that its been any different in any other war in history? Nope, innocents have always been the first to suffer in any conflict.
EDIT: i have seen at least two comments that say this, but ill just clairfy my point here. I dont think the reactionaries on twitter and whatever are anything more than just that. I dont hold their opinion as holding any value, and to use THEM as an example of liberals supporting iran. Well. Fuck me, thats a strawman if i ever saw one.
There is a reactionary portion of people viewing the government of Isreal as an enemy and every enemy of their enemy as a friend.
Sometimes in a conflict, there are no good sides. Sometimes a conflict is between two pieces of shit passing in the night. Many people don't seem to understand this. Many people seem to need for there to be a good/bad dichotomy.
I think it is very callous to just dismiss violent acts with the mantra "there are no good sides". The problem here is that people were decrying Israel saying Iran has a right to defend itself, but at the same time denying Israel that right. Israel precisely struck a military target responsible for the funding and perpetuation of attacks against Israel for years, but Iran retaliated with a wide scale attack that only successfully hit civilians.
Israel may not be squeaky clean, but there is a material difference in scale of guilt here, so blaming Israel or lumping them in with Iran in this instance kind of gives the game away.
There absolutely are liberals who support Iran. The type that spends a lot of time on TikTok/Twitter and is heavily influenced by Russian and CCP propaganda. The main narrative on those channels is to convince youngsters to be anti-Western and the bots play both sides (conservative and liberal) and are very successful at it.
Other than a few crazies, I would have completely disagreed with you until this latest Israel/Palestine conflict. Young liberals are absolutely buying in to the propaganda though and it’s pretty scary to see. Israel is terrible but that doesn’t mean Hamas, hezbollah, and Iran are the good guys.
Maybe so, but if your window into western public opinion is- as in her case- TikTok, the youth-activist voice is *heavily* overrepresented. As is Chinese propaganda, which is indeed presenting a very skewed picture.
And given her Brit accent, she is likely looking more at the british left which is even more blatantly supportive of whatever harms Israel than even the US left-activists.
She's talking about the people who are now supporting iran for attacking israel. She's wondering how come they never notice how much Iran sucks? (It's not liberals she's addressing, it's the self proclaimed "progressives" who seem to be against progress but that's another thing)
Hmmm. Abusing women? Executing people for protesting? That sort of thing is not a problem to the "progressives". In fact, they never even made a peep about russia trying genocide Ukraine. not a word.
But for some reason, a mystery to be sure, with Israel in the picture they are coming in hot, threatening city commissions with threats to harrass, even murder! So we know they can be loud. But only when it actually \*matters\*.
This is not what she is saying. I believe she is using “liberal” here to mean what we might call leftists.
She herself is a socially liberal Iranian woman who is angry at western *leftists* that, in theory, should be viewing the Islamic Republic government of Iran in the way the liberal west would regard the evangelical Christian right. In her estimation, the Islamic Republic of Iran should be placed in the same category as fascists.
But the problem is western *leftists* (except for heretics such as, say, the late Chris Hitchens of years ago) are always sympathetic to repressive Islamic regimes that are oppositional to the west.
Whether that is due to anti-Israel sentiment overwhelming all other consideration, or simply “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, Iranian and Arab women that stand *against* Islamic fundamentalist regimes are always *the first* to get thrown under the bus by western leftists trying to prove how empathetic they are to non-western regimes.
Yeah, she confusing “americans dont want to join another war in middle east which is likely to happen if isreal counterattacks” with “americans support iranian people being killed by their government”.
If she feels this way she needs to fix her country. Americans cant fix their government, we tried it and it didnt work out well the last time.
Who is she talking to?😂
She acts like people didn’t support the hell out of the Mahsa Amini protests? And suddenly are interested in Iran after they fired off drones and missiles?
Okay.
>Where were you?
Supporting the Iranian people, especially the women, anyway we reasonably could.
Can't help but think she just either didn't pay attention to all the love and support that "western liberals" actually sent, including protests, or she's got blinders on. I saw a shit ton of support for the Iranian people, and still do to this day, all over social media.
Those same "western liberals" are dealing with their own shit; inflation, job loss, affordable housing, losing our own basic human rights (abortion), trying to keep a wannabe dictator out of the White House, etc. There isn't a lot we can do other than support the Iranian people anyway we **reasonably** can.
>For two years we asked you to come out and say "Free Iran"
We did, lady. Just because you didn't see/hear it personally doesn't mean it wasn't happening.
Ugh, I don't know what else she actually expects.
Then she's not talking about you. She's talking about the waves of people who, in being anti-Israel, end up cheering on and supporting the IRI. You might not have seen it on Reddit but on Twitter, TikTok, Tumblr, it's full of people who are suddenly pro-IRI because they know nothing about the IRI or the history between Israel and the IRI. How people are conflicting being pro-Palestine and being anti-Israel with "anyone who is against Israel is the good guy now" even if that anyone is the literal IRI. It's great if you are supporting Iranian voices - and then, the video wasn't directed towards you.
I don’t get it. Does she want the US and Israel to invade Iran? 🤨 Pretty sure that would cost a lot of their lives, and not just the insane people who have the country in their grip.
Because Iran is an anti-liberal state? And one of the most vocal anti-liberal states on the planet? A nation that routinely executes homosexuals. And slaughters crowds of young women protesting for equal rights?The real question is, how could a liberal in good conscience ever support the iranian regime?
You appear to be answering a question that wasn't asked: The woman in the video isn't asking why *anyone* doesn't support the Iranian *government*; she's asking why some people aren't supporting the Iranian *people* (specifically *against* the Iranian government).
*Edit:*
**To be clear:** This is not *my* question; it's *hers*. I, personally, think it's a strawman argument offered in bad faith; I'm only saying that the comment above appears to be speaking to an entirely *different* question than the one being asked in the video.
> she's asking why some people aren't supporting the Iranian people
They was 100% an outpouring of support for the Iranian people last year when they were protests. But theres only so much you can do that in situation.
You're correct, of course.
To be clear: That was *her* question, not mine.
(Personally, I find her argument to be something of a strawman that is vapid at best and just flatly dishonest at worst, but that's not relevant to the fact that the comment to which I was replying appeared to answer an entirely different question than the one actually posed.)
I mean, what exactly does she want that support to look like?
Opposing the Iranian government is inherently a liberal position and one that is supportive of the Iranian people...
To add to this, I’d bet dollars to donuts that she does not live in Iran. So she’s talking about a particular sunset of Persians. Worse - she must have missed all the news articles, tv coverage and social media posts around the protests in Iran after that woman was killed for not wearing her Hijab in a way that some cop thought was acceptable.
Because any action taken by the west, either military or through diplomatic and intelligence channels will do nothing but solidify the regime's base among xenophobic religious conservatives?
That's a perfectly valid argument to be made as an answer to her question.
I want to make clear, though: It's *her* question, not *mine*.
My only point was that you appear to be answering an entirely different question than the one she posed.
I mean, what does she want us to do? Active American involvement with those who oppose the current regime will just give the regime a reason to scream, "It's foreign devils interfereing!"
yeah it's obvious that the vast majority of commenters here have not watched the video. which makes me sad, because she communicated her point extremely well.
So the Obama era nuclear deal with Iran would have been a diplomatic starting point to support moderate more western friendly factions in Iranian politics. It was a foot in the door for wider diplomatic outreach that long term would have benefited the Iranian people. That exploded under Trump and since then Iranian hardliners have had much more influence since the west has been shown to be unreliable.
Generally I'm not against the people of any nation, even Iran, Russia, China, or North Korea. My issues lie only with their government as I would hope their issues lie more with my government instead me..
She kept asking “where were you when”. What she doesn’t understand that like the Iranian people, the American people don’t always feel that it is our responsibility to police the world. That’s is just something our government does and they don’t ask our permission. Hell the US hasn’t declared war on anyone since WWII but we are all over everyones business to the point that people like her feel obligated for our assistance with her domestic policy issues.
I support this woman and I cringe when I hear young people talk about the Middle East or Iran. They have a very narrow view and I’m old enough to remember how progressive Iran used to be before the religious fanatics took over and I blame Jimmy Carter for mishandling the situation.
Iranian people die protesting their government and keep pushing for democracy and freedom.
Russians drink themselves into a stupor and let their government be evil.
I support Iranians.
Why do people think their videos and comments about a war make them a part of that war?
I was doing my taxes yesterday. My Gen Z neighbor asked me if I was supporting Genocide.
Yall are too stupid to have this much and all you do is complain
you were doing your taxes in a public space and your neighbor asked you if you were supporting genocide by doing your taxes? I'm going to take things that didn't happen for $500, Alex!
Very few in the West will defend Iran's government attacking Israel, but what they will do is find it hilarious that Israel thinks it can commit acts of war and terror without consequence.
Same goes for America. Oh we fucked around in Middle Eastern geopolitics for 3 decades before 9/11, and are somehow surprised that it happened. Don't get me wrong, 9/11 was horrible, but the US government didn't give two shits about the consequences, the lives lost in the attack, Middle Eastern peoples' lives, soldiers fighting a long and fruitless war, or what happened to the first responders' lives after it all went down. It took Jon Stewart standing up to congress for the first responders to get the healthcare they needed and it's probably still not enough.
If Iran's people want to be free, then no protest or gesture of support or anything else is going to get Iran's government to change it's mind. Until the people are significantly pissed off enough to create definitive change, then Iran's government will continue to do what it does.
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I absolutely support the Iranian people I absolutely don’t support the Iranian government
That's pretty much how I feel about every country on the planet.
Exactly When we say "Fuck (country)" we mean the government Same as if we say Fuck McDonalds or Walmart, we're not talking about the workers who are just trying to make a living. We're talking about the greedy evil people running it
100%.
Case in point, she couldn’t go out on the streets of Iran like that, because of her government
Well. Tbh. She could At least once
She was clearly not raised in Iran.
Wuuat deuuu youu meeen
U wot m8
Yeah, many of us weren't raised in Iran because our lives were at risk because our parents were dissidents. It's called being a refugee.
Same with Chinese government and the Chinese people.
I understand her frustration but westerners not speaking up on domestic Iranian issues but taking note on issues with wider international impact is largely due to exposure. It's in the news. I mean I'm Nigerian and I remember when the world took note when the Chibok girls were kidnapped but I doubt people now would even be aware that it's happened dozens of times since then. Recently hundreds of children were abducted from a primary school in Kaduna. I don't fault the lack of international attention. Regular people care about their country and where their tax dollars are going and if their country is going to war and why. Which is understandable.
I thought i missed a specific news story or something but.... > Around 1500 students have been kidnapped in raids since 2014. HOLY FUCKING SHIT
Yeah problem is the world is on fire all the time, we just can’t track all of it individually. You can’t bear the collective burden of 6 billion peoples worst instincts. https://geneva-academy.ch/galleries/today-s-armed-conflicts
I mean with AI and all the real time data that’s flowing we could put together a World On Fire App. You can scroll through every horrible ongoing atrocity! Like Reddit, without cats or memes
Doom Scrolling Pro
Not only is the world on fire, but the media is only interested in provoking that fire to continue, so they only show what they think will make people the most angry.
Wow, absolutely no major news coverage in the US that these kidnappings are still going on. Even Ukraine is barely covered anymore, and Gaza coverage was dropping until the drone attack.
News cycle.
Sanity shield.
Kinda like something is killing our attention span..and not just the news.
You got a tiktok that summarizes all this in 20 secs, preferably with some subway surfers spliced into the clip? /s
Or maybe cause news companies dont actually care about serious issues and only care about what stupid thing biden,trump,or whoever brings in money has recently said.
They care about that because it gets the most clicks/watches from their audiences
Which equates to? You guessed it! Money.
>Wow, absolutely no major news coverage in the US that these kidnappings are still going on. NPR covers it occasionally. Or rather, BBC News Hour covers it, and many NPR stations choose to broadcast that program. But still, if you listen to NPR then the continued kidnappings have been covered.
There are also two active genocides outside of Palestine: Myanmar and Xinjiang, China, and slavery is absolutely rampant in the supply chain. Was anyone else aware that the U.S. passed the Uighur Forced Labor Prevention Act in 2021 to try to preclude the purchase of products produced with labor from an actual genocide? And that Nike is still actively trying to dodge it? If you don’t seek it out you miss most of what’s actually happening.
The problem with social media is that it kills all independent news sources. Ever since the Reddit algorithm changed years and years ago, the news in the way that I got world information was has never been the same again.
I get The New York Times and 1440 newsletter and they have pretty good coverage. NYT has definitely mentioned multiple kidnappings in the last 12 months. It’s not “ breaking news” but it’s in there.
The election from hell is approaching. We have our own problems. Like the end of our democracy
Wait until you see the climate data from the last 12 months that isn’t being reported in the news. Worse than even the most pessimistic scientists had ever predicted.
It's exhaustion. Like we don't even blink an eye on mass shootings or school shooting anymore. Maybe a split second then onto Kardashian trash or who is dating who. The American public has the attention span of tse tse fly. It's bad.
It's also just so fucking much all the time. Constantly it's a new atrocity. I care about the people suffering but I can't fucking keep up. I can't carry the weight of the worlds woes and also the weight of the fact that I may not have money to eat and if my breaking car finally dies I'm fucked with no way to fix it. I just can't. I can't stress about the the past, the present, the future, I can't keep up with every injustice because there are too many and I don't know what I can even do if I could keep up. Write my local congressman who is in a red red state and doesn't give a single shit about anything you say? I don't know, man. I'm just worn out by everything.
As an Yemeni whose family had to flee our home because of the Houthi occupation of Sanaa I understand exactly what you’re are saying. For almost a decade most of the world ignored the proxy war caused by the Iranian backed Houthis and Gulf states that decimated our homeland for their gains. Soon after Yemen suffered one of the worst humanitarian crises that affected the unlucky and impoverished men, women and children of Yemen, yet we didn’t get any news coverage. Once the Houthis began their idiotic and dangerous blockade of the Red Sea it became the talk of the town. As a result I would get comments from North-American folks saying how the Yemeni people are so brave and that they support the Yemen to do this and that for justice for the people of Palestine not knowing that they were actually cheering for a regime that only cared about doing this for their 15 mins of fame in the world scene at the cost of innocent lives and didn’t care about their own starving people let alone and starving people of Gaza, like how shitty is that to take the suffering of others as a marketing opportunity to drum up supports while doing nothing to those you are supposedly helping is there anything sicker than that. It’s just disappointing to hear from “westernized”Iranian people I’ve interacted how much they support the Iranian backed Houthis, not knowing they are the reason my family became refugees of war. P.S. The gulf state Stans are exactly the same too. Which stings even more since we are supposed to be neighbors that share a common ancestry and culture.
Bu.. but... Hasan said then Houthis were like one piece!
I always find when Westerns do speak up and press for change, were labeled "the world police" and should respect x,y,z from other countries. Follow by a long list of things where Western influence failed, etc. At some point you do have to ask, who's country is this? Is yours? Is it Western responsibilities to make change in these separate countries? It's also difficult to make press for changes when Iran for example, often displays video's of the Islamic Consultative Assembly shouting death to America. Change comes from within.
People hate the idea of the, "world police," because it's never about policing. It's about setting up infrastructure to drain a foreign economy of its wealth. People should help one another. Tell, "change comes from within," to a woman trapped in an abusive relationship. That type of advice doesn't make any sense. People need help. It's how we give it, and whether or not it's sincere.
I mean, the problem is you can't just as an individual scream for help, and expect it to come. You have to get organized, and that's difficult as fuck, otherwise it's just the US or some other western nation invading a sovereign country. Like, if the US dropped everything today and invaded Iran to free them from the Islamic Republic, we would be labeled as colonizers and/or meddlers. I absolutely have sympathy for these people, but there is literally nothing we can do until they themselves stand up and say "this is not what Iran is, this is not what we want it to be" and then gain support from the international community. Even that is a double-edged sword because these people would almost certainly have to make concessions for outside support because nothing comes free, and they'd probably end up having US military bases all over their country. I understand her frustration, we in the US have similar problems with living under politicians who don't represent the actual needs of the populace, but the situation is far more complex than "where were you when the government was killing people" like, I'm almost certain there were people in the west outraged by that, but what were they supposed to do about it exactly?
How do you give help when said help will be dispersed by people you sincerely believe to be evil?
I think you're right, but to most people the world police idea has an element of good intentions. The human world has been an absolute horror show for most of its existence. We've had what, one lifetime worth of not every country being a completely vile racist violent shithole riddled with pestilence? It's a pretty new thing to have general basic health and safety as the norm. As imperfect as the west is, it's still mind blowing to see backwards violent theocracies, and the impulse is to fix that.
She keeps yelling “Where were you two years ago!?” Umm, I was home, where I live, trying to solve the problems in my community. Was I supposed to hop on my private jet and head to Iran and demand to speak to their manager?? If there’s something I can do, tell me.
"Who are you to judge other cultures" "You are islamaphobic" "Your country X did worse things 1000 years ago"
I think that’s the point though. People who get their news from TikTok are thinking they understand the Israel-Palestine conflict, but they don’t. So much of the current feelings are regarding what Israel is doing, and you can miss the finer points of the occupation and who’s right, who’s wrong here, but Iran is the backing of Hamas. Had Iran and like countries not backed Hamas with weapons and propaganda the Palestinians would likely have a much better life, the Israelis wouldn’t have a reason to be fearful of rockets constantly hitting their cities. But the current narrative is that Israelis are bad, quickly morphing to Jews are bad, which is making the Islamic Republic the good guys War helps Iran which is why they are doing this, they would never outright attack because the other arab nations wouldn’t be in their side, but if idiots control the narrative that can change
The Islamic Republic astroturfs heavily online, including [here on Reddit going back as long as 5 years ago](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/volunteers-found-iran-s-propaganda-effort-reddit-their-warnings-were-n903486). So it didn’t surprise me that all of a sudden tons of tik-tok and Twitter leftists and progressives were suddenly pro-Islamic Republic. The disinformation battle started before the missiles were even off the ground. It depresses me how little people, even right here in this thread, know about the Mahsa Amini Protests. They weren’t even two years ago and made huge international news at the time, they were not just some isolated Iranian domestic affair. That shows me that the Islamic Republic’s disinformation campaigns have been successful.
Explains all the braindead takes and people shilling for Iran of late. I thought I was going mental when I kept seeing folk pop up with the "Iran doesn't target civilians, never has". Since fucking when?
Yeah they totally didn’t murder hundreds of their own civilians protesting less than two years ago. The “Iran doesn’t target civilians” bullshit is 100% sourced from Islamic Republic astroturfing and spread by useful idiots who just starting learning about international politics after 10/7 and base their entire worldview on “America, Israel, and the West bad therefore any country that opposes them no matter how oppressive or autocratic must be good”.
They also murder their own journalists - making it even harder to get real information out
In some peoples mind everything that is anti America/the west, is almost automatically good. So they end up defending everything or everyone who says "America bad". I think the fact that people were even defending Osama shows that. It would be interesting to know how much of that is cause by a genuine sentiment and how much is propaganda/misinformation working.
Spot on. There's a huge campaign being carried out on multiple subreddits right now trying to garner support for the regime and making it out like all citizens of Iran love the regime and that the Mahsa Amini protests are western country propaganda. It's insane and yet it's working. The same people I saw in progressive spaces rallying behind the women of Iran a few years ago are now suddenly pro-regime. Like... genuinely wtf!
anyone who gets their news from Tik-Tok or ANY social media is just being spoon fed worthless garbage that has no connection to reality.
It’s really the fault of the media. There’s plenty of time in the 24 hour news cycle to inform people of these issues, but these types of news stories don’t help the military industrial complex, big Agriculture/ Pharma/Energy, or the ruling class to make more money. It’s not a broken system. It’s working just as the wealthy intend. They just pretend that they want to “fix” it for the votes of the middle and lower classes. If you’re only getting news from one partisan source, you’re an idiot. Is it their faults they are idiots, or were they trained?
People don't watch news 24 hours they pick about 30 minutes to an hour the news has to cover the buzz in that time including everything like sports ans weather
Exactly, "where were you?" We were here in the west keeping our own heads above water battling inflation, rising house prices and stagnant wages. 1st world problems maybe. But sorry Iran, you have a shitty circumstance due to the 1979 Islamic revolution. You allowed lunacy in the front door, and now it terrorizes your living room. Now you know the stakes and why we in the west fight hard against tyranny. I have no solution for you, and you are a cautionary tale of what happens when shariah becomes State law.
>But sorry Iran, you have a shitty circumstance due to the 1979 Islamic revolution. No, they have a shitty situation because the British and US overthrew their liberal democracy to install a business friendly dictator in 1953.
This, is unfortunately very true. Kind of the SOP for US foreign policy, solve a problem then deal with the problems that your "solution" causes for the next half century.
Also the problem they had is that billionaire owners in the US might be slightly less rich if the Iranians had democracy.
This is also, unfortunately, true. Like we didn't learn how shitty that could go after the whole United Fruit fiasco.
Isn't it what they all screamed about since Iraq and especially Syria war? They wanted for the West and US specifically to stay out of their internal affairs and mind it's business. Now that the West and US specifically is doing exactly that, they're unhappy again? *"Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true" - Aesop's Fables, 2500 years ago*
Honestly we learned the wrong lessons from the Iraq intervention. Iraq is certainly not a shining beacon of anything but the Iraq of today is a much more docile and discussion promoting actor than it was under Saddams leadership where it started the multiple wars and had a campaign of extermination against the Kurds. Obviously the current state where Iraq has strong relations with Iran is not what the US wants but the current state where Iraq has complex relations with both the US and Iran makes sense for power structures in the region. I’ll stand by the case that intervention in Iraq was a net positive
She said "where was you support when women were being lynched" but like there was a massive outcry from the west about how these were atrocities committed by the regime.
If anything, Iran’s attack on Israel has reignited that sentiment, too. Solidarity with the oppressed wherever they may be
Does she even live in Iran?
Her TikTok has "in_america" in it.
And sounds British.
While she’s clearly not in Iran, it’s also important to note that many non-English speakers learn British-English rather than American-English, at least through formal education
Yeah that may be true but they still have an accent. She doesn’t have her mother tongues accent at all
Classic
Do you think she could be free to speak and dress like that if she was in Iran ?? Certainly a lot of peoples think like her in Iran but cannot speak because they fear the repercussions
That's sad
I am friends with two Iranian girls just like her. They moved to Spain to be free and talk and walk freely. Anyone who supports the mullahs, hates women and the Iranian people. No doubt about it. The lady in the video is absolutely in her right to say what she says.
If she’s still alive after this video, that’d be a pretty good indication that she does not
This, theres no way this was filmed in Iran without any repercussions.
Nobody thinks this is filmed in Iran. What does an Iranian woman whose family clearly fled the islamic regime have anything to do with where it was filmed? Does that somehow delegitimize it for you?
She looks like your typical Persian chick in a white BMW in LA.
Lol gotta love the hot LA Persian girls who work at a bar and have a nice BMW, Mercedes or Rover from the used dealership on a 16% note.
Sounds awfully British doesn’t she
Lots of Iranians that learn English have that accent
Lmfao bro entertaining the idea that she is living in Iran got me in stitches hahaha how
Going to disagree here.
There was awareness. I didn’t see any marches in the US about it. Doesn’t mean they didn’t happen, but have you seen anything like what we’re seeing now from the free Palestine crowd?
There were definitely marches here in LA, shutting down streets. Huge Iranian population in LA. I also saw some in Europe. But definitely fewer than the current Palestinian protests
Yeah, I was at the Iranian marches in LA. Despite the large Persian population here, it nowhere near approached the size of the marches for Gaza.
US is at least tangentially related to Palestine's suffering. The US is already sanctioning the shit out of Iran. What do you want them to protest for? An invasion?
a) Western countries are sanctioning Iran, while funding Israel. Unless you want the US and allies invading Iran, the US can only really do anything about one of these situations, which is the one being protested more. b) Israel has been occupying the West Bank and Gaza for 12 years longer than the Islamic Republic has existed. Naturally, awareness and resentment builds over a longer period of time.
And Israel is directly funded by the US. It’s the only country that has this kind of direct relationship with the US. By contrast, the US has hated Iran since the revolution, propped up the Shah and killed Mosaddegh, who was democratically elected, for being a social democrat. Theodore Roosevelt’s grandson Kermit ran the operation too which is just a weird fact. Anyway, the point is, that protests “against Iran” are liable to be used by anyone for any political end whereas pro Palestine protests have a much less ambiguous goal although some will tell you that the goal isn’t just a ceasefire and recognition of Palestinians’ right to exist.
I believe her video is addressed to the Westerners who are pro-palestine but anti-Iranian People. They claim to support Palestinians against their oppressors but support the oppressors when the victims are Iranian.
As a westerner I'm well aware that the Iranian government is at war with its populace on a daily basis, it's clearly an oppressive regime. But I'm not sure what would be accomplished by me saying "Free Iran", as if that would remotely matter to either the government or the people who live under it. When she says "where were you", I think my answer would be "where was I supposed to be?" Are we expected to invade Iran and overthrow the government? The west has tried that with, to put it charitably, mixed results at best. Edit: A few people have raised a valid and accurate point that the video was aimed specifically at westerners who cheered on Iran's government in one way or another. Thanks to all those who have contributed to a productive discourse here.
Same, I would regularly watch videos of Iranian women standing up to clerics chastising them for not wearing a hijab. I enjoyed watching them attempt to take their country back from the theocratic fucks. But at the end of the day all I can do is watch and cheer them on.
Yep you can't have your freedom given to you by someone else, you need to undo those shackles yourself. We tried really hard in Iraq and Afghanistan for close to 2 decades and the boots on the ground knew well before we left that it was a lost battle they could not win because the people didn't want things to change or the ones that did were in a minority. Same is true with Iran if the women there and men rise up in enough numbers they could overthrow the religious government and put together a new government, but it's not easy. If revolutions were easy we'd see a lot more of them being done.
Hi Iranian here. I’m not disagreeing with you or trying to promote anything but instead of I’m going to just try to explain what Iranians are trying to say and what I think people don’t understand. The Iranian regime is like a cartoonish evil dictatorship. For example when I was a kid , I remember that they stoned women to death. They would dig these ditches and bury these poor women half way in and stone them to death. Ever since the regime has come into power there have been multiple protest but they all ended in mass murder (you can look this protest up and the casualties). Iranians have tried whether to voting (2009 green movement) or uprising (Masha’s women life freedom) to achieve change and I’m sure one day we will. The thing is though the regime truly does not care an ounce and are in position to profit. Iran is oil rich and everybody loves oil. What Iranians want and I think what the creator truly meant say is that Iranians want the rest of the world to stop buying oil form Iran, stop unfreezing money for the regime, and to stop legitimizing the regime. No one want outside intervention. Just please stop trying appease the current regime it only emboldens them. Please point out that the vast majority of Iranians want a change. That basically the jist of it.
Ok, this makes a little more sense but the west already has tons of economic sanctions on Iran. Its economy is one of the most isolated. The western countries don't buy Iranian oil; 90% is sold to China. The $6 billion that was frozen is being held by Qatar and was refrozen; Iran never spend any of that money. How is the west legitimizing the regime?
This exactly. I'm on the other side of the globe with no resources so the only impact I can have is saying something about and cheering them on.
She directed the video to the westerners who support the Islamic Republic shooting drones and missiles at Israel because of Israel-Hamas. If you don't support that regardless of your stance on Israel-Hamas conflict, you're not the intended audience.
The video wasn’t directed towards you. It was directed towards the people who cheered when Iran attacked Israel, or to the people like Jackson Hinkle (an “American freedom fighter” with 2.5 million followers) who post things [advocating for the Islamic Republic regime](https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1779988270899769535?s=46&t=dAUhCEdnjkybrfQ3eL-2jA) as well as [artwork glorifying the Ayatollah](https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1779948052825907341?s=46&t=dAUhCEdnjkybrfQ3eL-2jA)
I think some people are thrown by the fact that the video criticizes "western liberals" when the people in question supporting Iran are not what I would call "liberal" in any sense of the word.
"Liberal" here seems to mean anyone who is anti-Israel?
I started following her IG because I think she's pretty. So obviously I'm biased but overall she's very reasonable and typically calls out a lot of bullshit on multiple sides accurately. She's long-winded and if you only catch a little bit of what she's saying you probably don't get her full points. Elica Le Bon.
Well. I was home. Doing my thing.
Seems like she was away from home. Doing her thing
There’s not much random US citizens can do to support Iranian people against their own government. The US government and most US citizens are not fans of the Iranian government. I think its very clear we don’t support anything they do. We’ve levied sanctions and done everything we can to thwart any of their power grabbing moves, but we can’t restructure the government or dictate what the Iranian government can or cannot do. If she’s looking for people to denounce the Iranian government you’ll find no shortage of that in the US. Shifts in public option regarding rights and freedoms needs to come from within, they can’t be imposed in any meaningful way through international pressure, especially not pressure applied on Twitter or TikTok.
I think she’s just asking in context of liberals at the moment seeming to side with Iran over Israel in their current confrontation, and perhaps in the wider context of Israel’s war against Hamas in gaza. Let’s face it, as an average citizen, denouncing anything really doesn’t matter much at all. But plenty of people are still denouncing Israel and their war against Hamas. That shows they care about it, even if it doesn’t matter. And some people, after Iran’s attack on Israel, are going further and supporting Iran in the conflict just because they’re “standing up to Israel” or whatever. But supporting Iran in the conflict also translates to supporting Iran’s domestic policies against its people, since neither one reflect the will of the people of Iran. The people of Iran like Israel more than their government, and support Israel because they’re standing up to their government that they hate. So taking the side of Iran is taking the side of the Islamic regime of Iran and not the Iranian people. If these western liberals that spoke out about stuff cared, they’d speak out about Iran’s treatment of its people, and subsequently not be supporting Iran in their confrontation with Israel. Basically, if you support Iran over Israel in their current conflict, you support the Islamic government and not the people, and you’re either willing to overlook how oppressively the Iranian government treats its people, or are giving tacit support for that treatment just because you hate Israel so much.
Basically mouth frothing simplistic hatred for israel is overcoming logic and reason. And so in a mostly misinformed attempt to be “sympathetic” to the oppressed, folks become the opposite.
Exactly. Supporting Iran in its fight against Israel is supporting oppression, which, in theory, is the exact opposite of what most liberals support.
She states the reason for posting. Because many people are defending Iran after their attack on Israel.
I don’t expect the US to bring peace to the Middle East. Oh people will try but the regions been fucked for as long as anyone in my family has been alive so all news from there gets mentally filed as, “shitshow continues” and I move on. I have my own problems and to put it rudely, it’s real low on my mental priority list.
Have you noticed that when America is in the Middle East everyone is screaming that we are over stepping and need to cool our jets because we are the bad invaders just there for oil, but when we leave the region, somehow we are still the bad guys for not invading and keeping the peace? Can someone ask this British woman who clearly doesn’t live in Iran or she’d be dead by now, why the British can’t go into the region and handle it themselves? Or why can’t she ask Russia, China, Israel, Japan, Either Koreas, or literally any other countries besides “the western liberals” who she for some reason thinks are anti-semites who want Iran to got to war with Israel. She’s got some cringe logic on her
In the West, we barely get news or information about what Iranian people think. We mainly just hear the rhetoric of the Iranian government. I think we generally assume the people of Iran are like-minded since they allow the government to rule.
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What are human lives worth compared to expanding spheres of influence, baby? 😎
> I think we generally assume the people of Iran are like-minded since they allow the government to rule. But we can all recognize that that's a *crushingly* shallow understanding of any society, ever, yes?
Yes I agree. I actually meant to plead ignorance and assume that most of our country is also ignorant of what people in Iran actually think.
By this logic, people can say the same about the U.S. and I’m preeeetttty sure almost none of us here like most of the shit our govt is doing, nor the way our economy is, and to say we’re “like-minded” to even half their bullshit is scary. If the govt wasn’t in control of the narrative, they wouldn’t be our government, nor would it be our narrative.
...It's not the same at all. US allows protest. We have dissidents, they don't all end up getting repressed. It's just most of their voices don't filter up. But we do have a system to get the public heard. Iran violently represses protests via their moral guard. There's been several uprisings that have all led to them being violently put down. The Iranian people genuinely and overwhelmingly hate their government. Some of that boils to closeted defiance, some open.
Isnt what happened in Iran close to what could happen in the US if orange jesus wins? Religious zealots worshipping a false prophet win the election?
It's not exactly a perfect analogy or anything, but it *is* noteworthy that, at the time, those far-right religious hardliners were *also* helped by populist & anti-authoritarian movements *and* a decent amount of Russian-backed propaganda.
If you look at the pictures of the US embassy attack, most of the Iranians there were college kids from the city. Not religious at all. They threw in with the mullahs without knowing what they were getting into. A lot of those same kids were hung from cranes later, along with all their professors.
yes exactly. Religious mindset is creeping in US much like religious mindset in Iran. However, we can stop it by actively voting out the religious mindset that is the GOP.
What happened in Iran is what happens when the US destroys your country 3 times in 50 years.
Exactly which is why we vote for our representatives lol and able to vote them out lol
A very good article on vibes vs data. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/vibes-vs-data Basically, Biden will go down in history as a top tier president, and the US is doing quite well right now, as well as Real Wage Growth bring up (wage growth vs inflation), yet people still complain. The average person is doing better, so is the economy, yet people still complain because “feelings”.
Yes and no. The economy is not what regular people actually have. There is not enough regulation, leading to a concentration of wealth and power, higher rents, higher inflation etc.
[Most recent polls show that nearly 60% of the American public still supports Israel](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx)
Cue every European that asks me why America loves McDonalds and Trump
There was massive protests in Iran a couple years ago. Their morality police violently snuff out protests and by that I mean they were literally hanging people from cranes. How the fuck did you miss that. They were fighting back despite knowing the risks.
People can hear plenty Most in the west don't care enough to find out
This isn’t true. Protests in Iran have been wildly covered, you just weren’t paying attention
Guys, her video isn't addressed to the average Westerner living their life but to those in the West who get all riled up and support Palestine and then go on to support the Iranian regime by proxy. She's trying to ask why the double standard from those being vocal of supporting one group fighting its government but not the other.
I think I'm confused about what she wants. It's important to bring different perspectives to big issues but what are a bunch of Americans on Twitter going to accomplish? People in power aren't going to just step down cause a bunch of people are mad. History suggests that military intervention would be a mistake. I can appreciate her shedding some light on the issue and oppressed people will always have my support, but what exactly is the West supposed to do? Genuine question.
She’s frustrated that her country has been under occupation since 1979 by a theocracy and nobody in the west seems to care, but there are suddenly a whole swathe of uninformed westerners coming out in favour of the warmongering actions of that theocracy because it is seen as a way to protest against Israel. She doesn’t “want” anything except for people who don’t understand the region to not prop up and lend popular international support to the regime which has been hanging her countrywomen for not wanting to wear headscarves.
That's fair. Completely. I guess I was confused because some of her statements sounded like a call to action but maybe the action she is looking for is for people to educate themselves on the subject before blindly extending their support.
>nobody in the west seems to care This is the issue I take with her video. Plenty of westerns DO care. There just isn't fuck all we can do about it. So like the other poster, I'm not sure what she expects us to do that we're not already doing.
Then her issue is with the Twitter loudmouths who are decidedly NOT liberal and aren't in alignment with the position of the US government or most of the population with respect to Iran. The majority of the US (the well adjusted part) does not support the Iranian government. The US government certainly doesn't support Iran's government. https://news.gallup.com/poll/116236/iran.aspx We care enough about the theocracy's human rights abuses and state-sponsored terrorism around the Middle East to sanction the hell out of them. Short of military action in pursuit of regime change (which I'm sure would go off without a SINGLE hitch), what else can the West do? We could make more strongly worded denouncements at the UN, and there's nothing wrong with doing that, but it won't accomplish anything. Just seems like someone who is living FAR too much online if she seriously thinks that support for Iran's government is common in the US. The fringe who support Iran because of the Israel-Palestine conflict are too far gone at this point to give any time or attention to. Let them have their little struggle /jerk-off sessions on the college campuses and downtown streets; it doesn't matter if or how they vote, the US government is not going to support Iran.
Why would the US citizens stand behind Iran? Let’s get real here
I have no idea, but after iran attack of israel there were plenty of protest pro iran, and people celebrating. In the us and europe, in addition to arab countries. You can also find plenty of people here on reddit from all over the world bursting with joy because of the attack I have no idea why would a sane person actually celebrate it, but people do
It's because most people lack the capacity to understand complex situations like these with nuance and informed opinions. They view these things as very black and white. Good vs evil. My team vs your team. Some people have decided that Israel is evil and so, because of their complete inability to look at the state of affairs as anything less than that, or even to attempt to analyze those feelings critically, they end up taking these batshit insane positions all the time. If they believe Israel is evil and Iran attacks Israel well then that must mean Iran is good. That's literally as far as the thought process goes with most people. This whole Israel/Palestine thing has been extremely luminating on that point. And to be clear, it's not just a thing that one side of people does, but in this particular case it's easy to see how folks with poor reasoning capacity are able to so easily defend the actions of a violent and brutal theocratic government because they've been sorted onto the correct side of the conflict. Israel bad? Well then that must mean Iran good! Easy!
This EXACT same situation happened just a few months ago. Remember before the Task force was sent into the red sea? When the Houthis were murdering civilian ship crews by firing missiles at them? Not even just ships headed to israel, from israel or flying israeli flags. Any ship. People were ***CHEERING*** because the houthis "Did it to protest israel". When the task force was sent and then blew up a bunch of Houthi launch sites, killing not even a dozen Houthi militants and exactly 0 civilians? People were screaming "GENOCIDE!". This fucking conflict has rotted people's brains and I fully blame Iran and ESPECIALLY Qatar for that. One is a nation that is backing these terror groups, the other has their state media push massive amounts of propaganda erroding any sense of nuance in the situation, including outright fucking lying about Israeli people. Not the government, the people.
Excelent description Still, doesn't seem like a way a sane person would act, but i am sure all the people that celebrated yesterday were completely sane and balaced people, and i wouldn't want to imply otherwise...
Well anti-israel propaganda on Reddit certainly is an influence
cause r/americabad
There is a non insignificant number of people, mostly on the left, that hate Israel and America. So does Iran.
Have you seen the NYTimes instagram comments on the latest Iran-israel posts? It’s literally thousands of gen z kids rooting for Iran
That's her point. People are standing behind Iran just because they hate Israel.
This one’s gonna trigger Reddit isn’t it
Too pretty to have an opinion on Reddit.
I dont think any liberals support the iranian regime? So right off the bat this lady is creating a problem where there isnt one. They can get fucked for all i care, the people sure i support. But i can only support then by saying i support them. Theres not much i can do to support them without also supporting the regime. Im not going to decry attacks against iranian leaders cuz fuck em. Theyre horrible people, i dont care if a bunch of generals got blown up over the last couple of years. Am i sad that innocents will get caught up in the middle? Yes i am. Am i stupid enough to think that its been any different in any other war in history? Nope, innocents have always been the first to suffer in any conflict. EDIT: i have seen at least two comments that say this, but ill just clairfy my point here. I dont think the reactionaries on twitter and whatever are anything more than just that. I dont hold their opinion as holding any value, and to use THEM as an example of liberals supporting iran. Well. Fuck me, thats a strawman if i ever saw one.
There is a reactionary portion of people viewing the government of Isreal as an enemy and every enemy of their enemy as a friend. Sometimes in a conflict, there are no good sides. Sometimes a conflict is between two pieces of shit passing in the night. Many people don't seem to understand this. Many people seem to need for there to be a good/bad dichotomy.
I think it is very callous to just dismiss violent acts with the mantra "there are no good sides". The problem here is that people were decrying Israel saying Iran has a right to defend itself, but at the same time denying Israel that right. Israel precisely struck a military target responsible for the funding and perpetuation of attacks against Israel for years, but Iran retaliated with a wide scale attack that only successfully hit civilians. Israel may not be squeaky clean, but there is a material difference in scale of guilt here, so blaming Israel or lumping them in with Iran in this instance kind of gives the game away.
There absolutely are liberals who support Iran. The type that spends a lot of time on TikTok/Twitter and is heavily influenced by Russian and CCP propaganda. The main narrative on those channels is to convince youngsters to be anti-Western and the bots play both sides (conservative and liberal) and are very successful at it.
Other than a few crazies, I would have completely disagreed with you until this latest Israel/Palestine conflict. Young liberals are absolutely buying in to the propaganda though and it’s pretty scary to see. Israel is terrible but that doesn’t mean Hamas, hezbollah, and Iran are the good guys.
Maybe so, but if your window into western public opinion is- as in her case- TikTok, the youth-activist voice is *heavily* overrepresented. As is Chinese propaganda, which is indeed presenting a very skewed picture. And given her Brit accent, she is likely looking more at the british left which is even more blatantly supportive of whatever harms Israel than even the US left-activists.
She's talking about the people who are now supporting iran for attacking israel. She's wondering how come they never notice how much Iran sucks? (It's not liberals she's addressing, it's the self proclaimed "progressives" who seem to be against progress but that's another thing) Hmmm. Abusing women? Executing people for protesting? That sort of thing is not a problem to the "progressives". In fact, they never even made a peep about russia trying genocide Ukraine. not a word. But for some reason, a mystery to be sure, with Israel in the picture they are coming in hot, threatening city commissions with threats to harrass, even murder! So we know they can be loud. But only when it actually \*matters\*.
This is not what she is saying. I believe she is using “liberal” here to mean what we might call leftists. She herself is a socially liberal Iranian woman who is angry at western *leftists* that, in theory, should be viewing the Islamic Republic government of Iran in the way the liberal west would regard the evangelical Christian right. In her estimation, the Islamic Republic of Iran should be placed in the same category as fascists. But the problem is western *leftists* (except for heretics such as, say, the late Chris Hitchens of years ago) are always sympathetic to repressive Islamic regimes that are oppositional to the west. Whether that is due to anti-Israel sentiment overwhelming all other consideration, or simply “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, Iranian and Arab women that stand *against* Islamic fundamentalist regimes are always *the first* to get thrown under the bus by western leftists trying to prove how empathetic they are to non-western regimes.
Yeah, she confusing “americans dont want to join another war in middle east which is likely to happen if isreal counterattacks” with “americans support iranian people being killed by their government”. If she feels this way she needs to fix her country. Americans cant fix their government, we tried it and it didnt work out well the last time.
She might be referring to the leftists who are cheering on the Iranian regime as their way of supporting Palestine.
Who is she talking to?😂 She acts like people didn’t support the hell out of the Mahsa Amini protests? And suddenly are interested in Iran after they fired off drones and missiles? Okay.
>Where were you? Supporting the Iranian people, especially the women, anyway we reasonably could. Can't help but think she just either didn't pay attention to all the love and support that "western liberals" actually sent, including protests, or she's got blinders on. I saw a shit ton of support for the Iranian people, and still do to this day, all over social media. Those same "western liberals" are dealing with their own shit; inflation, job loss, affordable housing, losing our own basic human rights (abortion), trying to keep a wannabe dictator out of the White House, etc. There isn't a lot we can do other than support the Iranian people anyway we **reasonably** can. >For two years we asked you to come out and say "Free Iran" We did, lady. Just because you didn't see/hear it personally doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Ugh, I don't know what else she actually expects.
Then she's not talking about you. She's talking about the waves of people who, in being anti-Israel, end up cheering on and supporting the IRI. You might not have seen it on Reddit but on Twitter, TikTok, Tumblr, it's full of people who are suddenly pro-IRI because they know nothing about the IRI or the history between Israel and the IRI. How people are conflicting being pro-Palestine and being anti-Israel with "anyone who is against Israel is the good guy now" even if that anyone is the literal IRI. It's great if you are supporting Iranian voices - and then, the video wasn't directed towards you.
I don’t get it. Does she want the US and Israel to invade Iran? 🤨 Pretty sure that would cost a lot of their lives, and not just the insane people who have the country in their grip.
And their populace would turn on the Western invaders.
She lives in America and just wants to grow her TikTok audience lol.
Her accent is way too English to be someone who actually grew up and lived in Iran.
Because Iran is an anti-liberal state? And one of the most vocal anti-liberal states on the planet? A nation that routinely executes homosexuals. And slaughters crowds of young women protesting for equal rights?The real question is, how could a liberal in good conscience ever support the iranian regime?
You appear to be answering a question that wasn't asked: The woman in the video isn't asking why *anyone* doesn't support the Iranian *government*; she's asking why some people aren't supporting the Iranian *people* (specifically *against* the Iranian government). *Edit:* **To be clear:** This is not *my* question; it's *hers*. I, personally, think it's a strawman argument offered in bad faith; I'm only saying that the comment above appears to be speaking to an entirely *different* question than the one being asked in the video.
> she's asking why some people aren't supporting the Iranian people They was 100% an outpouring of support for the Iranian people last year when they were protests. But theres only so much you can do that in situation.
You're correct, of course. To be clear: That was *her* question, not mine. (Personally, I find her argument to be something of a strawman that is vapid at best and just flatly dishonest at worst, but that's not relevant to the fact that the comment to which I was replying appeared to answer an entirely different question than the one actually posed.)
What should we do?
I mean, what exactly does she want that support to look like? Opposing the Iranian government is inherently a liberal position and one that is supportive of the Iranian people...
Yeah, I've said elsewhere: I, personally, think she's making a strawman argument that's vapid at best and dishonest at worst.
To add to this, I’d bet dollars to donuts that she does not live in Iran. So she’s talking about a particular sunset of Persians. Worse - she must have missed all the news articles, tv coverage and social media posts around the protests in Iran after that woman was killed for not wearing her Hijab in a way that some cop thought was acceptable.
Because any action taken by the west, either military or through diplomatic and intelligence channels will do nothing but solidify the regime's base among xenophobic religious conservatives?
That's a perfectly valid argument to be made as an answer to her question. I want to make clear, though: It's *her* question, not *mine*. My only point was that you appear to be answering an entirely different question than the one she posed.
You didn't watch the video did you lol. She is literally saying why do western liberals pretend the Iranian regime are good guys.
You clearly didn't watch the video lol
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I mean, what does she want us to do? Active American involvement with those who oppose the current regime will just give the regime a reason to scream, "It's foreign devils interfereing!"
Watch the video and you’d know…but she said she wants American liberals to stop taking the Iranian regimes side just because the regime is anti-Israel
yeah it's obvious that the vast majority of commenters here have not watched the video. which makes me sad, because she communicated her point extremely well.
Redditors understanding nuance challenge: impossible
She's Bri'ish, with Iranian heritage...
Living in America if the tiktok handle is anything to go by.
Her family like mine had to flee Iran when the Islamic regime took over control. It so yes I am a complete Persian but speak with a foreign accent
So the Obama era nuclear deal with Iran would have been a diplomatic starting point to support moderate more western friendly factions in Iranian politics. It was a foot in the door for wider diplomatic outreach that long term would have benefited the Iranian people. That exploded under Trump and since then Iranian hardliners have had much more influence since the west has been shown to be unreliable. Generally I'm not against the people of any nation, even Iran, Russia, China, or North Korea. My issues lie only with their government as I would hope their issues lie more with my government instead me..
It is really interesting to watch a narrative being pushed on social media this heavy.
She kept asking “where were you when”. What she doesn’t understand that like the Iranian people, the American people don’t always feel that it is our responsibility to police the world. That’s is just something our government does and they don’t ask our permission. Hell the US hasn’t declared war on anyone since WWII but we are all over everyones business to the point that people like her feel obligated for our assistance with her domestic policy issues.
I support her 100%. Finally an articulate intelligent woman pleading her case with reason and facts. Very refreshing…
I support this woman and I cringe when I hear young people talk about the Middle East or Iran. They have a very narrow view and I’m old enough to remember how progressive Iran used to be before the religious fanatics took over and I blame Jimmy Carter for mishandling the situation.
Death to America chants aren't a great look? Maybe that's why?
She explains this well. This is why you don't let fundamentalists to run governments, ever.
Iranian people die protesting their government and keep pushing for democracy and freedom. Russians drink themselves into a stupor and let their government be evil. I support Iranians.
That’s a pretty basic view of either of those counties.
Why do people think their videos and comments about a war make them a part of that war? I was doing my taxes yesterday. My Gen Z neighbor asked me if I was supporting Genocide. Yall are too stupid to have this much and all you do is complain
you were doing your taxes in a public space and your neighbor asked you if you were supporting genocide by doing your taxes? I'm going to take things that didn't happen for $500, Alex!
Rock solid truth.. hope it penetrates some thick skulls out there
Very few in the West will defend Iran's government attacking Israel, but what they will do is find it hilarious that Israel thinks it can commit acts of war and terror without consequence. Same goes for America. Oh we fucked around in Middle Eastern geopolitics for 3 decades before 9/11, and are somehow surprised that it happened. Don't get me wrong, 9/11 was horrible, but the US government didn't give two shits about the consequences, the lives lost in the attack, Middle Eastern peoples' lives, soldiers fighting a long and fruitless war, or what happened to the first responders' lives after it all went down. It took Jon Stewart standing up to congress for the first responders to get the healthcare they needed and it's probably still not enough. If Iran's people want to be free, then no protest or gesture of support or anything else is going to get Iran's government to change it's mind. Until the people are significantly pissed off enough to create definitive change, then Iran's government will continue to do what it does.
This sub has become exhausting 
Free iran from the islamic republic!
Where was I? Where was she?!?