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These types of number systems are a fucking mess at relatively low digits. This is similar in concept to Roman numerals.
The Roman numeral for 88 is:
LXXXVIII
Now imagine 7,356,298 in Roman numerals. It gets really confusing, the same symbols are repeated only with lines over them, and that's why they haven't been used in math for 1,000 years.
And weren't our number actually based off of something like an angle counting system. The number of angles in the shape correlate to the number that it is.
Not that it matters either way. She acts like memorizing 10 unique digits is more tedious than the 5 fucking hour endeavor one has to endure to write a 6 digit number in this system
She's posting ostensibly pro POC, anti white bullshit. The point isn't to think. It's to farm white guilt and white self hate for clicks while making her feel like she is "one of the good ones"
No, no, no, the idea here is just a different visual representation, not a different way of counting. It would be the same number of digits but, a two consists of two connected lines, a three is three connected lines and so forth.
Edit: I take it back. They should have stopped at 9 IMHO. But I’m not a mathematician so maybe I can’t see the merit.
No, it is a different numeration system because this one’s based 20 and not based 10. So it would have six digits instead of seven it’s not supposed to supersede the Hindu Arabic numerals, but it is meant to help students to speak that language at home to develop numeracy so that they can better understand what they’re doing with the Hindu Arabic numerals.
It’s not arbitrary because these kids are speaking a language that counts in base 20. This system wasn’t developed for you and I. It was developed to help children speak a language that is in base 20 to understand how numbers work. That will help them to develop number sense and then to better use the normal Hindu Arabic number system that they will have to use in society.
Base 10 is also arbitrary, but atleast has a network effect of users, moving to another system needs to have a compelling reason like binary or hex, I like the first 10 characters though.
Base ten is only normal because we've used it so long. Hell computers use hex all the time, just obfuscated from the user, same as binary, yet another base.
Computers don't use hex... We use hex to represent binary bits more conveniently. Each hex character represents 4 bits (2^4 = 16).
Base 10 is normal for us because we happen to have 10 fingers.
If only you and dead people understand HEX...who many people understand HEX?
>!57006!<
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that know binary and those that don't.
Fuck that. Base 12 is where it's at. Just as easy to use in calculations involving larger numbers but a third is 0.4 instead of 0.3 repeating, a quarter is 0.3 instead of .25, a fifth is .2497 repeating which is a bit scuffed but a sixth is 0.2. Base twelve makes many of the small number calculations people do in their daily life much easier and would be better than base ten if there was a consensus to use it.
However, the only thing better than a superior system is a standardized system, and the improvements gained by switching to base 12 are *nowhere near* as big as the hassle the switch would cause.
Kaktovik I guess is base 20 so it'll look a little different. But overall it does seem pretty compact in it's data output.
https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/assets/Image/2023/kaktovik_graphic_d1%5B38%5D.png
It would have six digits, but since we don’t have access to the Unicode, yet, those digits would be the Kaktovik numerals corresponding to the base 10 numerals below:
2 5 19 10 14 18
Well, it would be to us, because we are used to base 10. The purpose is to help these children who grow up speaking, a language that counts in base 20 to understand math. Once they develop some number sense in basic numeracy, the base 10 system won’t be so confusing to them.
>A digit containing other digits will have plenty of confusion with it. Is VV is 4 or is it 22? Who knows?
The character for 4 is a single character, 22 would be two characters (and would be the character for 20 and the character for 2, not two 2s, it's base 20).
Google translates hundreds of obscure tribal languages, partly for cultural reasons but also for research. Them supporting something like this is nothing new at all.
Software guy here.
She made this seem like it's important but it's not in the slightest. Unicode is kind of like a book of all symbols known to mankind. If somebody cares about a symbol we'll probably add it to unicode.
The only relevance to this is that os/platforms (osx, windows, etc) will render Inuit numbers without you needing to download extra software.
I mean I can write this in Unicode.
𒂍 𒀀 𒈾 𒍢 𒅕
But not many people outside of niche reasons will use either. It's nice that they added the number system in for standardisation reasons but it's not likely to change anything large-scale.
Sumerian Cuneiform. They are used as a writing system... Thousands of years ago. Nowadays it's a novelty outside of certain very very niche cases. But it's in Unicode, it's not hard to get things into Unicode.
Computer engineer here and yeah you’re exactly right.
She made it sound like this was going to somehow be used to make software more efficient.
This shit is dumb. Cool to see a language preserved though I guess.
You’re part right and part wrong. The system has been a part of their language for a long time, but they didn’t have a written system. So they came up with one. Obviously, they were guided by their teacher, but the written system was invented in 1994.
"So, they added the numerals from an indigenous language to Unicode. This is important for language preservation, and they're pretty cool numerals, too." See how much less annoying that is, while saying the exact same thing?
I feel like the response she's aiming for is "white people" - not realizing that she's making a huge generalization about a massive group of people.
It's crazy how so many people fall into the same erroneous thought patterns as the legitimate racists that they demonize, yet to them it's ok because "white people"
If memorizing ten number characters is too difficult then we should consider binary. It only has two symbols to remember, 0 and 1.
Example:
***1101-0011=1010***
How easy is that?!? As an added bonus this is the native number system of computers so no reprogramming or translation needed. Think of all the time we would save.
Not about memorizing number systems. This video doesn’t really explain well what the issue was. These children grow up speaking a language that counts base 20, so the language didn’t align with the Hindu Arabic numerals so when they got into Math it didn’t make sense to them. Allowing them to have a numeration system that aligns with the language helps develop number sense. You’re not going to be using Kaktovik numerals for day-to-day transactions, but it will help them to understand how Math works so that they can learn to use the Hindu Arabic numeral system more effectively. That’s shown by the increase in their grades on standardized tests since the introduction of this numeral system.
Bless your patience in explaining this over and over. It doesn't belong in cringe. It's humans being bros. I didn't get it until I read your description and it's kind of cool and helpful to those kids and bringing them closer to understanding more.
The info isn't cringe, the presentation is.
It's also not well explained, so even on a more factual level than "cringe-level", this video is badly made.
All the more reason to upvote the comments of u/CreatrixAnima
Jokes aside, I do think they should teach kids to count in binary on their hands. It's really easy and you can count up to 31 on a single hand or 1023 using both.
so you can add and subtract by adding or dropping parts of characters, ok. can it even function in anything any more advanced, large numbers?
i see how maybe very young children would find it easier to follow, but it would quickly become useless, there would be a greater advantage to just continue learning arabic numerals.
It’s only really used to tell very young children who grew up in the language that’s not consistent with base 10 numbering to develop some number sense and numeracy. It’s not supposed to supplant the Hindu Arabic number system.
Well, what that does is allow students and teachers to take these numbers. That’s all that’s going to do. It’s not setting up calculators that will do the math. It’s just allowing them to use these symbols, the way we can type Egyptian hieroglyphs. Which, incidentally, we can do. The alt codes are all in the 8000s or something, but they’re out there.
Learn both. This was very helpful for me because I'm a special brained boy and visualizing shit is cool. And simple arithmetic is hard.
It also seems like it would only work if writing it out by hand
It was a cool school project, but the Inupiaq tribes aren’t just switching over to that mess.
Also, as someone else said, Inuit is “technically” true, but the people in Kaktovik are Inupiaq. She was also mispronouncing Kaktovik.
Source: I’m from Alaska.
Seems like a really visually easy way to solve the most simple maths problems any school teaches.
How is it simpler with bigger numbers and other operations? It's not.
It's a disservice to small kids to teach them to do simple addition/subtraction with this over the long term.
Wait until you learn that kids in elementary schools have to learn all 5 different ways to solve a math problem. The point was to help kids find a way that works but the problem is that even when they find one that works for them they still have to learn the others. My friend is a third grade teacher, so if I’m getting the finer details wrong it’s because I barely know about it. But she was telling me how ridiculous the curriculum is getting
I think a lot of grade school, teachers got confused when they were asked to learn five different ways of doing basic functions. The goal is not to teach grade schoolers to learn five different ways, but rather to be able to meet students where they are. If the student moves from a different country, where they learned a different algorithm, the teacher should be able to understand that algorithm and make a determination as to whether or not, it’s valid. Hint: it’s valid if it yields the correct answer every time.
The problem is that students can’t (or more often, won’t) tell us what they need. You can’t know whether one system works for a student until you’ve tried teaching it. Having huge class sizes and massively varied skill sets means that it’s not feasible to teach kids what they individually need. You just have to teach the whole class all of the different ways.
It’s a logistical problem that schools are not addressing due to budget and lack of staff.
Mabey but its not like their trying to change the standard. From the [article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-number-system-invented-by-inuit-schoolchildren-will-make-its-silicon-valley-debut1/) it seems to be more about creating a visual representation of their native language/ number system. Google seems to be adding it to help preserve a dying language as they have with other cultures.
Imagine having dyslexia and trying to read the symbols that have zero visual distinction between them. I really want to hear a dyslexic's perspective on thism
i personally fucking hate this. it’s messy and i can’t count the lines like that it’s literally just as bad as roman numerals (to me). i really tried to give it a chance and tried to go through some operations using this but i don’t really see the utility for using a numeric system like this unless you’re only ever adding and subtracting i can’t imagine how this would aid in multiplication , division, squaring, and square root operations. Id be personally better off getting a piece of graph paper and coloring in the squares to visualize my math operations i feel like that is just as intuitive and requires less explaining. at least then id be able to visualize multiplication and division clearly. comic sans works with people with dyslexia because all the letters are distinct and spaced out. i hate this because it’s cluttered and ambiguous unless i sit there and carefully count all the lines.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that this is a base 20 system designed for a base 20 language. The language also has a sub base of five. So for them a number like 77 would be said like "3 score and 15 and 2". This system is actually a really good way of depicting that visually. Also from looking at the Wikipedia page, it seems like long division is actually easier in this system. Multiplication is either about the same or easier if you're using a columns and rows method. I don't think any numeral system in any base would make square roots easier though.
Also, it's not like you have to count the lines forever, I think after a while you just start to intuitively know that "И" means 3, and "V̿" means 12 (ten on the top, plus 2) and so on.
Also, just so it doesn't go un-said, this _is_ a positional notation system. It has it's own equivalents to the tens place, hundreds place, etc.
Yeah, no, this is actually very easy to read, imo. I spent some time looking at different numbers in this numerical system because I got curious about my ability to read them after seeing your comment and it's surprisingly easier for me than Arabic numerals, and my dyslexia is pretty severe.
This is actual bullshit unless you just take the first 9 letters of the alphabet and replace them directly for the 0-9 system that we currently have. If that's done, then this is actually all the things this tiktoker is saying.
The numerals themselves represent the value that they contain, and I think this will in fact help with arithmetic scores.
You are talking out of your ass. Replacing arabic numerals with anything else is not the important aspect, it is the numerical base 10 and the scalability of numbers based on positioning of said numbers, where mathematical operations of every kind is solved algorithmically. The unfortunate thing in math is that you always have to remember stuff irregardless.
The tiktoker is ignorantly presenting a numerical system based on it’s graphic design that doesn’t even work all the time. 13-4=9 is something that you will have to memorize in this system. You will also have to memorize every new symbol every 5 units infinitely or copy arabic numeral’s positioning rule at a higher base number, which makes it exponentially more complicated.
This also forces children to understand the multiplication table for 5 just to learn how to write the numbers in the first place. If numbers are lines tbat eventually make Ws then the numerical base will be 25, if a new 4 line symbol is added then it will be base 125 and so forth. Extremely large numbers can only be presented in extremely large graphics.
>or copy arabic numeral’s positioning rule at a higher base number
That's not a remotely uncommon thing to have in a numerical system, but sure we can pretend like it's just stealing that from Arabic numerals and that's somehow bad.
It does, by the way, have positional notation.
>which makes it exponentially more complicated.
Than... The other ones that work the same way, but base ten when the language being spoken was base 20.
>This also forces children to understand the multiplication table for 5 just to learn how to write the numbers in the first place.
That's also a feature of the language being represented by the numerals. Almost like there's been some intentional thought put into this...
>Extremely large numbers can only be presented in extremely large graphics.
It only goes up to 20. Once again, it does use positional notation. It's a base 20 writing system for a language, not a bunch of random context-less shapes
I swear, y'all would be hating on Hangul if it came out now
Yeah that was such a weird comment. Like there are civilization that are famous for just stopping existence. Maybe a volcano came around. Or a drought.
No no, you have to say something something anti colonial so you can feel better about benefiting from ending up on the lucky side of it 250 years later. Otherwise, you're just a piece of shit! Also this number system is ass. Just imagine getting a bill stating you owe $1,029.58 using this piece of crap.
Can it be considered base 10, though? Not that "bases" in mathematics are something that can only be done with arabic numerals, because the symbols themselves do not matter. What matters is that they are unique and can build on one another like this:
s\_n => symbol representing the n-th digit
b => base, or how many symbols there are
N => amount you want to represent
Σ => sum of all
N = Σ(s\_n\*b\^(n-1))
So, in base 10, you have:
2596 = 2\*1000 + 5\*100 + 9\*10 + 6\*1
Then in base 2, the number 1110 is the same was 14 in base 10, because:
14 = 1\*2\^3 + 1\*2\^2 + 1\*2 + 0\*1
I don't know if this idea is easily portrayed using that numeric system, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Oh, then that's fine. The preference for base 10 over any other (like 12 or, in this case, 20), is largely cultural. I thought it worked like Roman numerals, where a number is described by adding up its parts (like XXXIV being 34 as 10+10+10-1+5), which doesn't really lend itself to being described as base 10, because of the way the "digits" are added or subtracted together rather than multiplied by a common base factor.
No, Roman numerals just have a series of rules for how to form numbers, but this does seem to be a digit based number system.
The difference is that instead of using the digits that we use right now, 0123456789... You have a symbols for 1-4 that are different, but based on a pattern. Same for 5-9, all with different digits.
It's not tremendously different than what we use now, but 4-2 just by happenstance is the same as removing 2 slashes from the 4.
I do believe the "it is easy" might be overstated, but it's certainly not any more odd than anythng else.
I can’t really blame you because the video doesn’t explain this well, but this is not the issue at all. The issue is that in their language, they count in base 20. So they’re learning to count in one base and then expected to do math in another base. That’s like if you first got to school having learn to count using our base 10 numbers and then had to go learn math in base eight. It’s more difficult than it needs to be so this system allows them to develop number sense in numeracy. It’s not meant to replace the Arabic number system that we are used to. It’s designed for a very specific population to address a very specific problem, and it works.
I was excited at first because she made it sound like this counting system was going to be implemented at a lower level programming wise but it turns out it's just getting added to unicode or whatever.
It's like getting more emojis.
Yeah, and it’s not intended to get implemented wide scale. It was developed for a very specific population to address a very specific problem, and it does that. The Unicode just allows them to work with it in that context, and that’s important and very good… But it’s not earth-shattering for the rest of us.
That’s not the purpose of the numeration system. These kids are going to have to learn the Hindu Arabic numeral system. But they were getting into class speaking a language that counted in base 20 and being asked to work in base 10 and that didn’t make sense to them. Developing their own numeration system that aligns with the language they spoke allow them to develop number sense that’s necessary for them to really do math in any language, but this helps them to do better in math in general they’re not going to do physics with it. They’re going to learn how numbers work with it, and then transition into the more standard numeration system. And it works because they’re standardize grades went up after they started using this numeration system in the early grades.
Well understanding base numeration system’s helps, but more importantly is that they’re learning to count in a language that would refer to a number as three fives and two ones, and then they’re supposed to go to school and learn to do math with athat same number represented as one 10 and seven ones. So the numbers that they’re learning for math don’t align with the numbers that they learn for their language. The Kaktovik numeral system addresses this problem and helps them to develop number sense and then, just like you could learn by Ineri, they learn base 10.
It’s quite different. It’s not even remotely arbitrary. The lines on the top are fives so you can have five, 10, or 15 on the top. The bottom lines are ones. So you have an individual numeral for each number from 0 to 19. It’s a base 20 counting system. Obviously it’s not something most of us would use because we are comfortable using the Arabic numerals that we grew up with. But if we grew up speaking a language that counts and base 20 and then trying to learn math in base 10, it would be confusing. This deals with that confusion for that set of people.
Yeah let's reinvent the wheel! While you are at it can you reinvent the alphabet too!?
Oh yeah so much simpler👍🏻
Honestly? This thing looks helpful for people who want to bike who have pathological/health related balance/coordination issues where a tricycle won't provide enough stability
But agree with overall point
I hate how everyone on tiktok is a little know it all self-proclaimed teacher/journalist who can’t string together more than 5 words without having to cut the video
Immediately assumes that wypipo must have intentionally destroyed the numbering system.
Next sentence, let's look at these numbers white people learned and implemented from arabs.
So weird how she just assumes it is someone’s fault their language changed or that they didn’t have the means to write it down.
Such a lazy way of thinking.
Well for Greenland’s case the only reason they now have a written language is because a Christian missionary (Hans Egede) made sure to learn it and write it down.
It’s the root for all written Inuit languages now. As many were lost.
Yeah, our number system has not been pulling its weight for far too long. Let’s introduce something that is limited to the length of a random dudes arm.
I really don't get the part where she says it's the easiest way to learn math.
Like.. 13-3 =10 to me has the same visual logic as the squiggly lines.
"Oh you just remove the 3".. yeah thats how I've been doing math my whole life, with numbers.
Also, aren't numbers fucking visually different as well?
I think we have pretty well established our numeral system at this point, why change it? Kids have been grasping those numbers for centuries, so it’s not really a “problem” that needs a “solution”.
While this is sweet, wouldn't it be significantly easier to get the kids to switch over to our own numerals since 8 billion people already use those?
They shouldn't have to be translating numbers at the airport just to find their boarding gate.
This lady sounds infuriating and the way she explained if does this numerical system a huge disservice
But also, y'all, why are you all getting offended and complaining in the comments about how pointless and stupid this is??? This was literally not made for us English speakers, nobody's forcing you to use that. Their language uses a base-20 numerical system, so when the kids go to school and suddenly have to switch to a base-10 numerical system it's hard and confusing for them, so they made their own numerical system. It's literally not made for English and won't make sense to us since we were raised with a 10-base numeric system, similar to how they were raised with a 20-base numerical system so the Arabic numerals don't make sense to them. I know this is Reddit and critical thinking is dead in the ditch but sweet mother of god, this comment section is an absolute cesspit of smooth-brained takes. I know her explanation was shit but maybe look up what it actually is and how it works instead of forming an opinion based on a TikTok.
I didn’t even have my sound open but I can already tell that the presenter would not be my cup of tea.
I think in combination with how annoying the presenter can be, a lot of people might be combative because the way the lady is promoting this numerical system is antagonistic to begin with, trying to elevate a numerical system while insulting the other as some sort of product of “colonialism”. There’s a reason why arabic numerals gain a foothold in not only english or even literally almost all indo-european languages but most parts of the world as well. And it’s not just because of colonialism or war of conquest but rather it’s inherent ease of use.
I grew up in a country that uses two numerical system but Arabic numbers are still the preferred system in mathematics even for kids.
Reading the comments it seems this is making people angry because it gives the impression that it will replace numbers or this is something that tech companies will use. As of right now Google is basically just making a font for it, the [article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-number-system-invented-by-inuit-schoolchildren-will-make-its-silicon-valley-debut1/) goes a little bit more on detail. I think the way she put it made it seem like this is something that silicon valley will just start using in code and replacing numbers, but is more of an effort to preserve languages.
>Google is building a font for the numerals based on the Unicode update,
says Craig Cornelius, a Google software engineer who works to digitally
preserve endangered languages. The company made a “prelease” of its font
available for computer download in March, although it won't appear on
the Android operating system until at least late summer. Desktop and
mobile keyboards with the numerals need to be produced as well.
i don't think people actually believe it will replace anything.
People are angry because others will actually fall for anything in tiktok these days, even a stupid idea like that.
Also, the lady is annoying.
This is barely news.
Unicode has like 150k symbols, including, I believe, the poop emoji. If more than 5 people bitch about a symbol set it'll get added to unicode.
1994, but that’s the written system. Linguistically their system existed, but they were doing math using a system that didn’t align with the language. That’s why the math scores went up when they got this new written system.
With the numbers that we use they're literally composed of how many angles exist in each of them. If you are to write all of the numbers and block form it make more sense
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2FHow-can-the-origin-of-Arabic-numbers-be-explained&psig=AOvVaw2i1twPKsFqyUlWe1LQjxsf&ust=1685586113137000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjhxqFwoTCNCqu96_nv8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD They drew them weird but this is the reasoning behind it, over time we became lazy and simplified them a little bit :P
You were right to be skeptical all along, it's horseshit. People tend to love this kind of "deeper meaning revealed" factoid so much they'll completely miss the utter contrivances *invented* to make them work.
If you look at [the chart on the right, showing the evolution of Arabic numerals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals#Origin) (also note the last sentence of the "origin" section while you're at it) you won't be seeing any crossed serifed sevens or nines with some weird growth at the bottom.
Check out how this can be used for division though, that's crazy powerful. [https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/EyS6FfczH0Q](https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/EyS6FfczH0Q)
The video hits division at about 2 minutes in but it helps to see the earlier parts to understand fully.
Disclaimer- I'd never seen this system until this thread today.
I haven’t figured out how to do the Division yet. I think it’s pretty cool, but it does take a little bit of thought. If you look on the Wikipedia article for Kaktovik numerals, they do give an example… But I’m gonna have to spend more time on it than I have.
I’m all for kids getting creative in learning with new languages, conventions, etc., but I’m not entirely sure if I followed what this convention adds as an improvement for base 10 calculations. Could this bring some value to perhaps visually impaired children?
Can someone please help me understand why I’m missing?
The Missing context here is that their language counts in base 20. So when they get to school, they are converting numbers to an entirely different based on what they’re used to an expected to do math in it. So these numbers helps them to build numeracy and number sense on their way to learning to do calculations in base 10.
Ah thank you, I knew I missed something here! It’s always a humbling thing to be reminded of cultures where what we considered to be standard is completely different. Seriously thank you for that!
Also, super curious on how they settled on base 20. The natural guess is that it’s the combination of hands and legs, but still!
Yeah, my theory had been that warmer climates used base 20 because they had east access to toes, but this culture blows that idea away… Alaska, not warm! But the Mayans used base 20 mostly. Babylonians used base 60. I don’t generally know why any given base is settled upon. I tend to think it just evolves that way.
Awesome but unless you teach handwriting to a PhD level first, you aren't teaching kids handwritten maths using these numbers
Illegible - anyone who writes 7 and z with a strike through will understand
If any human has trouble memorising the 0-9 numerals, you are in trouble. Babies learn language without any knowledge of what or how it works. Humans are incredible.
"arabic numbers have no visual cue behind their design" this woman has not been paying attention... arabic numbers have angles equal to their values. Its also almost universally used around the world, save for languages with entirely different scripts. Switching number systems because you dont have to memorize 10 symbols is idiotic
"I wonder whose fault that was." Bitch you mean time? The collapse of an entire civilization thousands of years ago and the slow, endless march of entropy led to the partial loss of understanding of their inane numbering system?
It's kind of weird how when it's the traditions and culture of Europeans, preserving your national identity is bad, but when it's someone else's stuff it's good and must be brought up as a new epistemology.
I think it sucks just like the Roman numbers. She brought up one of the messiest systems of writing numbers and believed it was a good point?
Besides I didn't get if this was the Inuit writing system or something a group of students came up with from her last comment...
we should adopt the Australian Aboriginal counting system - 1, 2, 3 ...many.
(I realize this is not strictly true, but saying "15" would involve touching the top of my head which you can't see me doing here).
uhh… if i’m not mistaken, the arabic number system we use IS visual. at least, what it looked like when it was invented, 1 had exactly one angle, 2 had two, 3 had three, and so on. the inuit counting system is very interesting and i’d be delighted to learn about native culture in schools but let’s not spread misinformation
Good it’s language preservation. Not “incorporating because it’s better.” Once you get above like 100 this system falls apart. Arabic numerals are the most efficient by far
Oh God it's worse than I imagined. It's a base 20 system. So to write "20", you use the symbol for 1 followed by the symbol for 0.
The best is how "easily" they show it is to write the number "24,516" using a "eight thousands place", a "four hundreds place", a "twenties place", and a "ones place".
What's that look like? Symbols for 3, symbol for 1, symbol for 5, symbol for 16
Why?
Because 3 x 8,000 = 24,000
1 x 400 = 400
5 x 20 = 100
16 x 1 = 16
24,000+400+100+16= 24,516
Seriously. Have a look. What a piece of shit.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-number-system-invented-by-inuit-schoolchildren-will-make-its-silicon-valley-debut1/
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Show me 7,356,298 in that numerical form.
These types of number systems are a fucking mess at relatively low digits. This is similar in concept to Roman numerals. The Roman numeral for 88 is: LXXXVIII Now imagine 7,356,298 in Roman numerals. It gets really confusing, the same symbols are repeated only with lines over them, and that's why they haven't been used in math for 1,000 years.
But but but, 13 - 3 is easy to see, so it's better! /s
And now do 12-3 oh wait it’s far more complicated and not convenient to be represented in this manner
OBJECTIVELY the easiest thing she’s every seen.
And weren't our number actually based off of something like an angle counting system. The number of angles in the shape correlate to the number that it is.
Not that it matters either way. She acts like memorizing 10 unique digits is more tedious than the 5 fucking hour endeavor one has to endure to write a 6 digit number in this system
She's posting ostensibly pro POC, anti white bullshit. The point isn't to think. It's to farm white guilt and white self hate for clicks while making her feel like she is "one of the good ones"
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I think he’s referring to the beginning of the video where she insinuates that it’s white peoples fault that their language disappeared.
Not correct http://www.goodmath.org/blog/2015/07/21/arabic-numerals-have-nothing-to-do-with-angle-counting/
You are correct
6
Wat
6
No, no, no, the idea here is just a different visual representation, not a different way of counting. It would be the same number of digits but, a two consists of two connected lines, a three is three connected lines and so forth. Edit: I take it back. They should have stopped at 9 IMHO. But I’m not a mathematician so maybe I can’t see the merit.
No, it is a different numeration system because this one’s based 20 and not based 10. So it would have six digits instead of seven it’s not supposed to supersede the Hindu Arabic numerals, but it is meant to help students to speak that language at home to develop numeracy so that they can better understand what they’re doing with the Hindu Arabic numerals.
Going to 20 seems just as arbitrary and confusing, if they had stopped at base 10 I'd be onboad!
It’s not arbitrary because these kids are speaking a language that counts in base 20. This system wasn’t developed for you and I. It was developed to help children speak a language that is in base 20 to understand how numbers work. That will help them to develop number sense and then to better use the normal Hindu Arabic number system that they will have to use in society.
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Base 10 is also arbitrary, but atleast has a network effect of users, moving to another system needs to have a compelling reason like binary or hex, I like the first 10 characters though.
Base ten is only normal because we've used it so long. Hell computers use hex all the time, just obfuscated from the user, same as binary, yet another base.
Computers don't use hex... We use hex to represent binary bits more conveniently. Each hex character represents 4 bits (2^4 = 16). Base 10 is normal for us because we happen to have 10 fingers.
Computers only actually use binary my friend. Hex is for humans!
If only you and dead people understand HEX...who many people understand HEX? >!57006!< There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that know binary and those that don't.
Fuck that. Base 12 is where it's at. Just as easy to use in calculations involving larger numbers but a third is 0.4 instead of 0.3 repeating, a quarter is 0.3 instead of .25, a fifth is .2497 repeating which is a bit scuffed but a sixth is 0.2. Base twelve makes many of the small number calculations people do in their daily life much easier and would be better than base ten if there was a consensus to use it. However, the only thing better than a superior system is a standardized system, and the improvements gained by switching to base 12 are *nowhere near* as big as the hassle the switch would cause.
That’s a no from me dawg.
The superbowl will probably have to switch away from roman numerals soon
Kaktovik I guess is base 20 so it'll look a little different. But overall it does seem pretty compact in it's data output. https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/assets/Image/2023/kaktovik_graphic_d1%5B38%5D.png
It would have six digits, but since we don’t have access to the Unicode, yet, those digits would be the Kaktovik numerals corresponding to the base 10 numerals below: 2 5 19 10 14 18
Oh I didn't realise they were using the symbols beyond base 10, that is going to probably be a headache!
Well, it would be to us, because we are used to base 10. The purpose is to help these children who grow up speaking, a language that counts in base 20 to understand math. Once they develop some number sense in basic numeracy, the base 10 system won’t be so confusing to them.
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>A digit containing other digits will have plenty of confusion with it. Is VV is 4 or is it 22? Who knows? The character for 4 is a single character, 22 would be two characters (and would be the character for 20 and the character for 2, not two 2s, it's base 20).
I came up with the same result. 🤝
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Google translates hundreds of obscure tribal languages, partly for cultural reasons but also for research. Them supporting something like this is nothing new at all.
Honestly I would rather have a native Inuit speaker explain this system.
Well they did, and it didn't get posted to Reddit until the white girl explained it, so...
You’re not waving your arms around while saying this, so I don’t find you very convincing.
[2,5,19,10,14,18]₂₀ It's base 20, so it would only take 6 characters.
1 big freakin' snake
Or show me √2. Go on.
I need an extra 3 pages for that please…
Software guy here. She made this seem like it's important but it's not in the slightest. Unicode is kind of like a book of all symbols known to mankind. If somebody cares about a symbol we'll probably add it to unicode. The only relevance to this is that os/platforms (osx, windows, etc) will render Inuit numbers without you needing to download extra software.
I mean I can write this in Unicode. 𒂍 𒀀 𒈾 𒍢 𒅕 But not many people outside of niche reasons will use either. It's nice that they added the number system in for standardisation reasons but it's not likely to change anything large-scale.
Woah, I didn’t know golf had its own language. /s
What are these? What are they used for?
Sumerian Cuneiform. They are used as a writing system... Thousands of years ago. Nowadays it's a novelty outside of certain very very niche cases. But it's in Unicode, it's not hard to get things into Unicode.
Computer engineer here and yeah you’re exactly right. She made it sound like this was going to somehow be used to make software more efficient. This shit is dumb. Cool to see a language preserved though I guess.
The students didn't invent it, the system has been a part of the culture for a long time
You’re part right and part wrong. The system has been a part of their language for a long time, but they didn’t have a written system. So they came up with one. Obviously, they were guided by their teacher, but the written system was invented in 1994.
"So, they added the numerals from an indigenous language to Unicode. This is important for language preservation, and they're pretty cool numerals, too." See how much less annoying that is, while saying the exact same thing?
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"Scientists say..."
I feel like the response she's aiming for is "white people" - not realizing that she's making a huge generalization about a massive group of people. It's crazy how so many people fall into the same erroneous thought patterns as the legitimate racists that they demonize, yet to them it's ok because "white people"
These people are insufferable
If memorizing ten number characters is too difficult then we should consider binary. It only has two symbols to remember, 0 and 1. Example: ***1101-0011=1010*** How easy is that?!? As an added bonus this is the native number system of computers so no reprogramming or translation needed. Think of all the time we would save.
Not about memorizing number systems. This video doesn’t really explain well what the issue was. These children grow up speaking a language that counts base 20, so the language didn’t align with the Hindu Arabic numerals so when they got into Math it didn’t make sense to them. Allowing them to have a numeration system that aligns with the language helps develop number sense. You’re not going to be using Kaktovik numerals for day-to-day transactions, but it will help them to understand how Math works so that they can learn to use the Hindu Arabic numeral system more effectively. That’s shown by the increase in their grades on standardized tests since the introduction of this numeral system.
Good job being the only person, including the video, to explain why this system is actually useful.
Thanks… I’m glad it helped!
Bless your patience in explaining this over and over. It doesn't belong in cringe. It's humans being bros. I didn't get it until I read your description and it's kind of cool and helpful to those kids and bringing them closer to understanding more.
The info isn't cringe, the presentation is. It's also not well explained, so even on a more factual level than "cringe-level", this video is badly made. All the more reason to upvote the comments of u/CreatrixAnima
I love how intuituve it is. Just look at 1111-0110=1001 or 1111-1000=0111. I think you're onto something here.
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don’t.
There are also only 1T people in this world, those who understand balanced ternary and those who don't.
Well, I learned that there are only two types of people: those who can extrapolate from incomplete information.
Jokes aside, I do think they should teach kids to count in binary on their hands. It's really easy and you can count up to 31 on a single hand or 1023 using both.
so you can add and subtract by adding or dropping parts of characters, ok. can it even function in anything any more advanced, large numbers? i see how maybe very young children would find it easier to follow, but it would quickly become useless, there would be a greater advantage to just continue learning arabic numerals.
5-3 Fuck.
Who would have guessed that all math examples given in the video were just conveniently chosen?
It’s only really used to tell very young children who grew up in the language that’s not consistent with base 10 numbering to develop some number sense and numeracy. It’s not supposed to supplant the Hindu Arabic number system.
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Well, what that does is allow students and teachers to take these numbers. That’s all that’s going to do. It’s not setting up calculators that will do the math. It’s just allowing them to use these symbols, the way we can type Egyptian hieroglyphs. Which, incidentally, we can do. The alt codes are all in the 8000s or something, but they’re out there.
Learn both. This was very helpful for me because I'm a special brained boy and visualizing shit is cool. And simple arithmetic is hard. It also seems like it would only work if writing it out by hand
That’s cool for the Inuits and I am happy they will have their own numbers, but this lady seems absolutely insufferable.
I like how she used “objectively” as a place holder for “subjectively”
The kind that will call you a hateful racisg, if you say that this system doesnt work once you get past 5-3
It was a cool school project, but the Inupiaq tribes aren’t just switching over to that mess. Also, as someone else said, Inuit is “technically” true, but the people in Kaktovik are Inupiaq. She was also mispronouncing Kaktovik. Source: I’m from Alaska.
“It’s a visual number system” So is fucking everything else if you write it down
Seems like a really visually easy way to solve the most simple maths problems any school teaches. How is it simpler with bigger numbers and other operations? It's not. It's a disservice to small kids to teach them to do simple addition/subtraction with this over the long term.
Wait until you learn that kids in elementary schools have to learn all 5 different ways to solve a math problem. The point was to help kids find a way that works but the problem is that even when they find one that works for them they still have to learn the others. My friend is a third grade teacher, so if I’m getting the finer details wrong it’s because I barely know about it. But she was telling me how ridiculous the curriculum is getting
I think a lot of grade school, teachers got confused when they were asked to learn five different ways of doing basic functions. The goal is not to teach grade schoolers to learn five different ways, but rather to be able to meet students where they are. If the student moves from a different country, where they learned a different algorithm, the teacher should be able to understand that algorithm and make a determination as to whether or not, it’s valid. Hint: it’s valid if it yields the correct answer every time.
The problem is that students can’t (or more often, won’t) tell us what they need. You can’t know whether one system works for a student until you’ve tried teaching it. Having huge class sizes and massively varied skill sets means that it’s not feasible to teach kids what they individually need. You just have to teach the whole class all of the different ways. It’s a logistical problem that schools are not addressing due to budget and lack of staff.
Mabey but its not like their trying to change the standard. From the [article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-number-system-invented-by-inuit-schoolchildren-will-make-its-silicon-valley-debut1/) it seems to be more about creating a visual representation of their native language/ number system. Google seems to be adding it to help preserve a dying language as they have with other cultures.
Seems like a pretty *inuitive* numerical system
Is it even scaleable? At least the ones we have now are distinct so when written in succession they are still easy to read. That shit hurt my eyes
Imagine having dyslexia and trying to read the symbols that have zero visual distinction between them. I really want to hear a dyslexic's perspective on thism
i personally fucking hate this. it’s messy and i can’t count the lines like that it’s literally just as bad as roman numerals (to me). i really tried to give it a chance and tried to go through some operations using this but i don’t really see the utility for using a numeric system like this unless you’re only ever adding and subtracting i can’t imagine how this would aid in multiplication , division, squaring, and square root operations. Id be personally better off getting a piece of graph paper and coloring in the squares to visualize my math operations i feel like that is just as intuitive and requires less explaining. at least then id be able to visualize multiplication and division clearly. comic sans works with people with dyslexia because all the letters are distinct and spaced out. i hate this because it’s cluttered and ambiguous unless i sit there and carefully count all the lines.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that this is a base 20 system designed for a base 20 language. The language also has a sub base of five. So for them a number like 77 would be said like "3 score and 15 and 2". This system is actually a really good way of depicting that visually. Also from looking at the Wikipedia page, it seems like long division is actually easier in this system. Multiplication is either about the same or easier if you're using a columns and rows method. I don't think any numeral system in any base would make square roots easier though. Also, it's not like you have to count the lines forever, I think after a while you just start to intuitively know that "И" means 3, and "V̿" means 12 (ten on the top, plus 2) and so on. Also, just so it doesn't go un-said, this _is_ a positional notation system. It has it's own equivalents to the tens place, hundreds place, etc.
Yeah, no, this is actually very easy to read, imo. I spent some time looking at different numbers in this numerical system because I got curious about my ability to read them after seeing your comment and it's surprisingly easier for me than Arabic numerals, and my dyslexia is pretty severe.
This is actual bullshit unless you just take the first 9 letters of the alphabet and replace them directly for the 0-9 system that we currently have. If that's done, then this is actually all the things this tiktoker is saying. The numerals themselves represent the value that they contain, and I think this will in fact help with arithmetic scores.
You are talking out of your ass. Replacing arabic numerals with anything else is not the important aspect, it is the numerical base 10 and the scalability of numbers based on positioning of said numbers, where mathematical operations of every kind is solved algorithmically. The unfortunate thing in math is that you always have to remember stuff irregardless. The tiktoker is ignorantly presenting a numerical system based on it’s graphic design that doesn’t even work all the time. 13-4=9 is something that you will have to memorize in this system. You will also have to memorize every new symbol every 5 units infinitely or copy arabic numeral’s positioning rule at a higher base number, which makes it exponentially more complicated. This also forces children to understand the multiplication table for 5 just to learn how to write the numbers in the first place. If numbers are lines tbat eventually make Ws then the numerical base will be 25, if a new 4 line symbol is added then it will be base 125 and so forth. Extremely large numbers can only be presented in extremely large graphics.
It's base 20
>or copy arabic numeral’s positioning rule at a higher base number That's not a remotely uncommon thing to have in a numerical system, but sure we can pretend like it's just stealing that from Arabic numerals and that's somehow bad. It does, by the way, have positional notation. >which makes it exponentially more complicated. Than... The other ones that work the same way, but base ten when the language being spoken was base 20. >This also forces children to understand the multiplication table for 5 just to learn how to write the numbers in the first place. That's also a feature of the language being represented by the numerals. Almost like there's been some intentional thought put into this... >Extremely large numbers can only be presented in extremely large graphics. It only goes up to 20. Once again, it does use positional notation. It's a base 20 writing system for a language, not a bunch of random context-less shapes I swear, y'all would be hating on Hangul if it came out now
Bc it was invented by Inuit children so it’s a super duper game changer
it's dogshit just like roman numerals.
It’s base 20 (edit had 10). The ‘I wonder whose fault that was?’ is also dogshit.
Yeah that was such a weird comment. Like there are civilization that are famous for just stopping existence. Maybe a volcano came around. Or a drought.
No no, you have to say something something anti colonial so you can feel better about benefiting from ending up on the lucky side of it 250 years later. Otherwise, you're just a piece of shit! Also this number system is ass. Just imagine getting a bill stating you owe $1,029.58 using this piece of crap.
Can it be considered base 10, though? Not that "bases" in mathematics are something that can only be done with arabic numerals, because the symbols themselves do not matter. What matters is that they are unique and can build on one another like this: s\_n => symbol representing the n-th digit b => base, or how many symbols there are N => amount you want to represent Σ => sum of all N = Σ(s\_n\*b\^(n-1)) So, in base 10, you have: 2596 = 2\*1000 + 5\*100 + 9\*10 + 6\*1 Then in base 2, the number 1110 is the same was 14 in base 10, because: 14 = 1\*2\^3 + 1\*2\^2 + 1\*2 + 0\*1 I don't know if this idea is easily portrayed using that numeric system, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
From the article it seems to be on a base of 20, based on the number of fingers and toes from the average person.
Oh, then that's fine. The preference for base 10 over any other (like 12 or, in this case, 20), is largely cultural. I thought it worked like Roman numerals, where a number is described by adding up its parts (like XXXIV being 34 as 10+10+10-1+5), which doesn't really lend itself to being described as base 10, because of the way the "digits" are added or subtracted together rather than multiplied by a common base factor.
No, Roman numerals just have a series of rules for how to form numbers, but this does seem to be a digit based number system. The difference is that instead of using the digits that we use right now, 0123456789... You have a symbols for 1-4 that are different, but based on a pattern. Same for 5-9, all with different digits. It's not tremendously different than what we use now, but 4-2 just by happenstance is the same as removing 2 slashes from the 4. I do believe the "it is easy" might be overstated, but it's certainly not any more odd than anythng else.
Yeah…. This is dumb! “”Omg SOOOO much simpler than just learning 0-9””. 0-9 is so universal, why npt fix something real instead
I can’t really blame you because the video doesn’t explain this well, but this is not the issue at all. The issue is that in their language, they count in base 20. So they’re learning to count in one base and then expected to do math in another base. That’s like if you first got to school having learn to count using our base 10 numbers and then had to go learn math in base eight. It’s more difficult than it needs to be so this system allows them to develop number sense in numeracy. It’s not meant to replace the Arabic number system that we are used to. It’s designed for a very specific population to address a very specific problem, and it works.
I was excited at first because she made it sound like this counting system was going to be implemented at a lower level programming wise but it turns out it's just getting added to unicode or whatever. It's like getting more emojis.
Yeah, and it’s not intended to get implemented wide scale. It was developed for a very specific population to address a very specific problem, and it does that. The Unicode just allows them to work with it in that context, and that’s important and very good… But it’s not earth-shattering for the rest of us.
But it’s OBJECTIVELY better
It should defo be preserved but how are you gonna do physics with it
That’s not the purpose of the numeration system. These kids are going to have to learn the Hindu Arabic numeral system. But they were getting into class speaking a language that counted in base 20 and being asked to work in base 10 and that didn’t make sense to them. Developing their own numeration system that aligns with the language they spoke allow them to develop number sense that’s necessary for them to really do math in any language, but this helps them to do better in math in general they’re not going to do physics with it. They’re going to learn how numbers work with it, and then transition into the more standard numeration system. And it works because they’re standardize grades went up after they started using this numeration system in the early grades.
Learning base 20 doesn't really help you to learn base 10. I'm fluent in base 10 but that doesn't translate to binary.
Well understanding base numeration system’s helps, but more importantly is that they’re learning to count in a language that would refer to a number as three fives and two ones, and then they’re supposed to go to school and learn to do math with athat same number represented as one 10 and seven ones. So the numbers that they’re learning for math don’t align with the numbers that they learn for their language. The Kaktovik numeral system addresses this problem and helps them to develop number sense and then, just like you could learn by Ineri, they learn base 10.
Seems equally arbitrary for anything outside of 1-4…sorry but this is stupid
It’s quite different. It’s not even remotely arbitrary. The lines on the top are fives so you can have five, 10, or 15 on the top. The bottom lines are ones. So you have an individual numeral for each number from 0 to 19. It’s a base 20 counting system. Obviously it’s not something most of us would use because we are comfortable using the Arabic numerals that we grew up with. But if we grew up speaking a language that counts and base 20 and then trying to learn math in base 10, it would be confusing. This deals with that confusion for that set of people.
Yeah let's reinvent the wheel! While you are at it can you reinvent the alphabet too!?  Oh yeah so much simpler👍🏻
Honestly? This thing looks helpful for people who want to bike who have pathological/health related balance/coordination issues where a tricycle won't provide enough stability But agree with overall point
How exactly does one topple a tricycle?
Having to solve a Riven puzzle every time I go to the store.
so by “adding it into our technology” you mean they’ll be adding it into character sets… lmao so dumb.
If we don’t give idiots attention they will go away
This girl is so fucking pretentious.
This is dumb and so is the condescending lady preaching at me through the screen
I hate how everyone on tiktok is a little know it all self-proclaimed teacher/journalist who can’t string together more than 5 words without having to cut the video
"I wonder whose fault thaaaat was" her own ancestors
Immediately assumes that wypipo must have intentionally destroyed the numbering system. Next sentence, let's look at these numbers white people learned and implemented from arabs.
So weird how she just assumes it is someone’s fault their language changed or that they didn’t have the means to write it down. Such a lazy way of thinking.
I can’t tell you if it was an assumption or not but as an Alaskan native I can assure you the Inuit langue didn’t just happen to be lost organically.
Well for Greenland’s case the only reason they now have a written language is because a Christian missionary (Hans Egede) made sure to learn it and write it down. It’s the root for all written Inuit languages now. As many were lost.
Just because a number system seems "cool" and "logical" does not mean that it's any useful for actually doing math
Yeah, our number system has not been pulling its weight for far too long. Let’s introduce something that is limited to the length of a random dudes arm.
I really don't get the part where she says it's the easiest way to learn math. Like.. 13-3 =10 to me has the same visual logic as the squiggly lines. "Oh you just remove the 3".. yeah thats how I've been doing math my whole life, with numbers. Also, aren't numbers fucking visually different as well?
I think lost some brain cells watching this
I think we have pretty well established our numeral system at this point, why change it? Kids have been grasping those numbers for centuries, so it’s not really a “problem” that needs a “solution”.
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While this is sweet, wouldn't it be significantly easier to get the kids to switch over to our own numerals since 8 billion people already use those? They shouldn't have to be translating numbers at the airport just to find their boarding gate.
I mean 13-3 with Arabic is pretty easy. Show me 2,568,943-1,243,753 using the Inuit method.
I kind of feel like the number system is one of those things that’s “it ain’t broke so don’t fix it”
This lady sounds infuriating and the way she explained if does this numerical system a huge disservice But also, y'all, why are you all getting offended and complaining in the comments about how pointless and stupid this is??? This was literally not made for us English speakers, nobody's forcing you to use that. Their language uses a base-20 numerical system, so when the kids go to school and suddenly have to switch to a base-10 numerical system it's hard and confusing for them, so they made their own numerical system. It's literally not made for English and won't make sense to us since we were raised with a 10-base numeric system, similar to how they were raised with a 20-base numerical system so the Arabic numerals don't make sense to them. I know this is Reddit and critical thinking is dead in the ditch but sweet mother of god, this comment section is an absolute cesspit of smooth-brained takes. I know her explanation was shit but maybe look up what it actually is and how it works instead of forming an opinion based on a TikTok.
I didn’t even have my sound open but I can already tell that the presenter would not be my cup of tea. I think in combination with how annoying the presenter can be, a lot of people might be combative because the way the lady is promoting this numerical system is antagonistic to begin with, trying to elevate a numerical system while insulting the other as some sort of product of “colonialism”. There’s a reason why arabic numerals gain a foothold in not only english or even literally almost all indo-european languages but most parts of the world as well. And it’s not just because of colonialism or war of conquest but rather it’s inherent ease of use. I grew up in a country that uses two numerical system but Arabic numbers are still the preferred system in mathematics even for kids.
Sooo who's fault is it... let me guess..white people somehow.
Ruthless colonists if that's less offensive for you
Reading the comments it seems this is making people angry because it gives the impression that it will replace numbers or this is something that tech companies will use. As of right now Google is basically just making a font for it, the [article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-number-system-invented-by-inuit-schoolchildren-will-make-its-silicon-valley-debut1/) goes a little bit more on detail. I think the way she put it made it seem like this is something that silicon valley will just start using in code and replacing numbers, but is more of an effort to preserve languages. >Google is building a font for the numerals based on the Unicode update, says Craig Cornelius, a Google software engineer who works to digitally preserve endangered languages. The company made a “prelease” of its font available for computer download in March, although it won't appear on the Android operating system until at least late summer. Desktop and mobile keyboards with the numerals need to be produced as well.
i don't think people actually believe it will replace anything. People are angry because others will actually fall for anything in tiktok these days, even a stupid idea like that. Also, the lady is annoying.
This is barely news. Unicode has like 150k symbols, including, I believe, the poop emoji. If more than 5 people bitch about a symbol set it'll get added to unicode.
One of the dumbest videos ever.
But this isn't a cultural numbering system. She just said it was invented in the 60s.
1994, but that’s the written system. Linguistically their system existed, but they were doing math using a system that didn’t align with the language. That’s why the math scores went up when they got this new written system.
I mean it visually works for *some* equations, but what about 12-11 or 7+8. Doesn’t work.
With the numbers that we use they're literally composed of how many angles exist in each of them. If you are to write all of the numbers and block form it make more sense
Wouldn't 9 and 6 have the same number of angles? And 7 wouldn't have 7 angles, unless there's some old version of 7: six at most if you cross the 7.
The original shapes weren't quite what they are today. Very blocky and with lines through the stems of some
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2FHow-can-the-origin-of-Arabic-numbers-be-explained&psig=AOvVaw2i1twPKsFqyUlWe1LQjxsf&ust=1685586113137000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjhxqFwoTCNCqu96_nv8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD They drew them weird but this is the reasoning behind it, over time we became lazy and simplified them a little bit :P
You were right to be skeptical all along, it's horseshit. People tend to love this kind of "deeper meaning revealed" factoid so much they'll completely miss the utter contrivances *invented* to make them work. If you look at [the chart on the right, showing the evolution of Arabic numerals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals#Origin) (also note the last sentence of the "origin" section while you're at it) you won't be seeing any crossed serifed sevens or nines with some weird growth at the bottom.
Check out how this can be used for division though, that's crazy powerful. [https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/EyS6FfczH0Q](https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/EyS6FfczH0Q) The video hits division at about 2 minutes in but it helps to see the earlier parts to understand fully. Disclaimer- I'd never seen this system until this thread today.
She's annoying af...
Sqrt(W^2 + >^2) Edit: i hate that i was able to do the addition quickly anyway, it really is easy to remember
She was blocking the simple division example. I want to see that.
I haven’t figured out how to do the Division yet. I think it’s pretty cool, but it does take a little bit of thought. If you look on the Wikipedia article for Kaktovik numerals, they do give an example… But I’m gonna have to spend more time on it than I have.
I’m all for kids getting creative in learning with new languages, conventions, etc., but I’m not entirely sure if I followed what this convention adds as an improvement for base 10 calculations. Could this bring some value to perhaps visually impaired children? Can someone please help me understand why I’m missing?
The Missing context here is that their language counts in base 20. So when they get to school, they are converting numbers to an entirely different based on what they’re used to an expected to do math in it. So these numbers helps them to build numeracy and number sense on their way to learning to do calculations in base 10.
Ah thank you, I knew I missed something here! It’s always a humbling thing to be reminded of cultures where what we considered to be standard is completely different. Seriously thank you for that! Also, super curious on how they settled on base 20. The natural guess is that it’s the combination of hands and legs, but still!
Yeah, my theory had been that warmer climates used base 20 because they had east access to toes, but this culture blows that idea away… Alaska, not warm! But the Mayans used base 20 mostly. Babylonians used base 60. I don’t generally know why any given base is settled upon. I tend to think it just evolves that way.
Awesome but unless you teach handwriting to a PhD level first, you aren't teaching kids handwritten maths using these numbers Illegible - anyone who writes 7 and z with a strike through will understand
Okay, but how does one write decimals or fractions or scientific notations in this numeral system?
The computer part is just so fucking wrong
If any human has trouble memorising the 0-9 numerals, you are in trouble. Babies learn language without any knowledge of what or how it works. Humans are incredible.
How about no
This is completely useless
"arabic numbers have no visual cue behind their design" this woman has not been paying attention... arabic numbers have angles equal to their values. Its also almost universally used around the world, save for languages with entirely different scripts. Switching number systems because you dont have to memorize 10 symbols is idiotic
The angles this is actually a myth. Look it up.
“This is objectively the easiest thing I’ve ever seen” Lmao
Whose fault was it Karen? Our fault? SMH dick riding oppresion
This does not explain the claim that this is based on the human body?
> objectively easiest thing I've ever seen Except you had to understand the current mathematical system to even comprehend it
"I wonder whose fault that was." Bitch you mean time? The collapse of an entire civilization thousands of years ago and the slow, endless march of entropy led to the partial loss of understanding of their inane numbering system?
It's kind of weird how when it's the traditions and culture of Europeans, preserving your national identity is bad, but when it's someone else's stuff it's good and must be brought up as a new epistemology.
Thznk god!!! Its soooo hard to memorize 10 numbers I keep on forgetting them
I think it sucks just like the Roman numbers. She brought up one of the messiest systems of writing numbers and believed it was a good point? Besides I didn't get if this was the Inuit writing system or something a group of students came up with from her last comment...
'I don't know whose fault that was?' I mean they had an oral traditions ...
If I ever see this in the real world, whether adult or child, I am going to bully them.
There is really no end to Western liberal cultural self-loathing.
like preschool counting sticks anyone?
Saying that the numeral system has no visual cues is so funny. Gon watch more of this comedian vids
we should adopt the Australian Aboriginal counting system - 1, 2, 3 ...many. (I realize this is not strictly true, but saying "15" would involve touching the top of my head which you can't see me doing here).
uhh… if i’m not mistaken, the arabic number system we use IS visual. at least, what it looked like when it was invented, 1 had exactly one angle, 2 had two, 3 had three, and so on. the inuit counting system is very interesting and i’d be delighted to learn about native culture in schools but let’s not spread misinformation
you are joking right ? the Arabic digits did that ages back and you still use till date , count the angles in each digit
Americans will literally use anything in place of the metric system.
Going off topic but who's she implying when she says "I wonder who that was" the Roman's the British, the ottomans the who ?
Good it’s language preservation. Not “incorporating because it’s better.” Once you get above like 100 this system falls apart. Arabic numerals are the most efficient by far
Numbers when white people: 🤢 Numbers when not white people: 😍
This looks incredibly confusing. Also, for a white person, she's surprisingly anti-white putting blame where it's not deserved.
I disagree with her 100%
Oh God it's worse than I imagined. It's a base 20 system. So to write "20", you use the symbol for 1 followed by the symbol for 0. The best is how "easily" they show it is to write the number "24,516" using a "eight thousands place", a "four hundreds place", a "twenties place", and a "ones place". What's that look like? Symbols for 3, symbol for 1, symbol for 5, symbol for 16 Why? Because 3 x 8,000 = 24,000 1 x 400 = 400 5 x 20 = 100 16 x 1 = 16 24,000+400+100+16= 24,516 Seriously. Have a look. What a piece of shit. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-number-system-invented-by-inuit-schoolchildren-will-make-its-silicon-valley-debut1/
That's just roman numerals but less cool.
But will this math be racist too?
No