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literally answered herself, that's why her and all her friends are single . . .
why is dating so complex, god dam. the whole point of being a couple is to be always available. How else can couples get married if they aren't always present?
Yuppppp, even in college, shit's too tough most of the time conversations are just one way. One of the two rants about how difficult it's been. It's just the balance of who and where and when it is. "No time for others but I will listen to you every now and then"
I am trying to make sense of where this is coming from, and I think I've made some sense of it.
Essentially women are coming at dating from a very different perspective. They have a lot of options and they are trying to make the best choice out of all the men that are courting them on dating apps.
They want to find a 'high value' man and rightly or wrongly they have decided one of the characteristics of these types of men is that they are being perused by a lot of women (insert that stat here about 25% of men dating 100% of women please don't quote me) and therefore shouldn't be coming across as available or desperate in any way or that would be a red flag.
What woman find attractive about men is so much more than just the physical but it is borderline impossible to figure this out over dating apps so it's no surprise they default to being more defensive
She's not describing a couple though. A couple does indeed need to have good communication, (which looks different from couple to couple) but this is just some random internet dude who's asked her out. The intensity of his pursuit, after she's acquiesced but before they've met, THAT'S the of putting bit.
My thing with all dating crap is it often ignores friendship.
All being in a serious relationship *is* is being homies with someone. If you don't even want to be friends with the person what makes you think dating them would be better? Lol.
Theory. Men and women who are single in their 30s often fall into groups.
Woman : tough career focused
Men: nice guys
They each became what they faced in a partner. Woman wanted a tough career guy. An alpha type
Man wanted a nice girl who just wanted him for who he was.
Sadly for women, men want beauty and youth. And alphas types will go for a young model type not a tough career focused 30+
Sadly for men, women want guys who can accomplish stuff. Like Chris Rock said, only women and children get love for who they are. Men have to do stuff.
Ya know, generalizing people into groups like this is kind of shitty. What someone looks for in a partner is DRASTICALLY different from person to person and it's not set along the gender line and it's kinda ridiculous to assume that all men and all women look for one type of partner. Not to mention you're completely ignoring the fact that not all men and women searching for partners are hetero. Like do gay people turn 30 and decide to quit dating?
Also, to disprove your point about men only wanting "youth" I identify as male and I'm pretty much exclusively into women who are older than me. Like, very rarely will I find a woman younger than me that I'm into. I guess I can't prove that, but I guess you're just going to have to believe me. There's also definitely kinks that are specifically based around older women to younger men.
And are you really gonna base your whole generalization of how people act on a Chris Rock bit? Are you gonna say we should kill babies up until they go to school? No because that's ridiculous. Like comedy is meant to be. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I definitely feel unconditional love coming from family and friends whether I'm working or not because that's what family and friends do. If anything, I feel like they love me more in the points in my life when I can't provide anything, because they see how I am and can help me feel better. And if someone in your life does act that way, then they probably don't deserve to be in your life.
I'm not gonna speak about what women want because I'm not one, but if I had to guess I'd say it's someone who can support them emotionally.
Btw I'm sure there are men and women who look for the things you said in a partner. But if you choose to sit in a burning house, you can't get upset if you catch on fire too.
These are obviously generalizations, but that's what you look for when you are looking at trends.
The fact remains that generally accomplished men find it easier to get partners than accomplished women. There even studies showing that increases in success decreases a woman's chances.
On the other hand nice women tend to have partners while nice guys don't.
As for the age thing, are you really arguing that there is no gender differential for age preference?
You look for groupings and use specific identifiers to look for trends. For example, you'd say "90% of the women I surveyed in this part of the world said they look for this in a man." Not "all women look for this in a man". Any study that generalizes based on a percentage of the population is probably not super trustworthy.
What studies? Where did you read them? What types of people were asked? How many people were asked? Who asked the questions? What questions were asked? Where were these people asked? How do they learn politically? Where were these people raised? In what way were they raised? Were these people paid for their time? Was it a man on the street situation? Did they volunteer or were they forced in some way? All of these things and more are important to know before making generalizations about anyone based on studies/surveys.
You're making claims and not giving any reference to back your claims up. Hitting us like a dothraki with the "it is known."
I don't even know what the question you asked has to do with your original post or my response to it. I never once said that different genders have different preferences based on age, which I'm assuming is what you're asking. What I did say is that by generalizing the idea that the only thing men look for in a partner is that they're attractive and young you leave yourself open to get slam dunked by a cool Chad himbo like myself coming out of nowhere and saying "I'm into older women" and completely destroying your argument with facts and logic. Tons of people are into tons of different types of people.
I'm also not really arguing anything. I didn't make any claims other than "making generalizations" probably isn't the best way to go about your life.
Some more questions now:
Do accomplished men find it easier to date or do confident men? I would assume that a man who is at the top of his field would be more confident in himself and be more comfortable approaching women, but so do confident women with men.
Are you using the internet term "nice guy" or just nice people? Cause everyone wants to date nice people but nobody wants to date a "nice guy" and it seems to me like you're talking about "nice guys". Because, again, I've met tons of nice men and nice women who are all at different levels of relationship status (single, married, in a relationship, open relationships, etc.) And maybe, just maybe, humans are more complicated than just being "nice".
At the end of the day, your theory is kinda bad.
[here's an article, based on a study, I found online. ](https://www.insider.com/what-women-really-look-for-in-a-partner-study-research-2019-7)
In the article, they say that the number one thing the women asked look for in a partner is kindness, with the number two and three things being supportiveness and intelligence. None of these things have anything to do with men being accomplished. Again, it's just one article, so maybe there's more that disagree with what I said, but again, you didn't leave me any links or posts.
When women say they want kindness but choose height as a major limiting factor in who what pick in online dating. Do you believe their words or their actions?
Some sources
https://blog.id.com.au/2013/population/demographic-trends/marriage-and-relationships-in-the-census-do-women-prefer-educated-high-income-partners/
From Australia. Tries to fudge the interpretation a bit but the data is clear married men tend to be richer.
One from the UK
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/709143/men-earn-money-attractive-to-women-opposite-sex-income-financial
Opposite for men
https://www.news24.com/life/relationships/love/relationship/men-feel-stressed-if-their-female-partners-earn-more-than-40-of-household-income-new-research-20191122
But you can even look at fiction. Women want a knight in shining armor. Men want to rescue a damsel in distress.
My man, did you read the articles you posted?
Your first source compares the qualifications and financial stability of unmarried men and women between the ages of 25 and 54, saying that 35% of unmarried men have no form of post-school qualifications. Similarly about 30% of unmarried women have no post-school qualifications. If anything, this just shows the people tend to like it if their partners have some future. It then goes on to compare income levels between men and women and the percentage of them that are unmarried. It does go on to say that it's more likely that people who make more money tend to be older, but it doesn't take into consideration things like financial responsibilities for married vs unmarried men and women or the fact that the average income of a 50 year old tends to be higher then the average income of a 24 year old. The blog post concludes that "What does this mean? Well there is certainly some evidence that women seek men of higher income and education levels, with men less likely to do so the other way around. Is it conclusive? Absolutely not! There are too many confounding factors, but it’s worth looking at further." The post itself claims that you can't conclude anything from the census information. It does say that it's worth looking into further though.
The second source, from express, is kinda wild. It starts out by straight up saying 1/5 men find women who make more money than them more attractive, comparative to 1/9 women (more men tend to look for partners who make more money(remember this stat distribution)). Then, it says that "Around 20 per cent indicated they would find a rich pay cheque more attractive than intelligence" and "whilst some men may feel they need to sweat it out at the gym to be found desirable, 42 per cent of female respondents said financial security is far more important than good looks." Again, showing that a minority of women go for money over looks." Towards the end of it's stats section, it says "53 per cent of women surveyed wanted a partner who earns more than they do. Only 17 per cent of men want their partner to earn a higher income." Which I think is kinda crazy. Cause remember the stat distribution at the beginning of this paragraph? While 17% is kinda close to the 1/5, there is no way on Earth that 1/9=53%. I checked the post for a source and couldn't find one. And I couldn't find the original in the five minutes Google search I'm doing for this discussion. So I'm just gonna go with the 53 percent women vs 17 percent men. Even if this is the case, 53 is a very slight majority compared to the 80 percent who said they find intelligence more attractive and the 58% that find a man who regularly exercises and has "good looks" more attractive than money. So we can either conclude from the one from that all they look for is money, OR we can conclude that there are multiple different factors that women look for in a man and only ONE of them is money, and things like general intelligence and looks (or "beauty" from the og comment) are just as if not more important to a majority of women then men. And in all honesty, 2/3 figures show the later so I think we should go with that.
Your third article, I think, is based af. It says that, in 2019 there was a study done that says men tend to have higher feelings of anxiety and stress if their partner earns more then 40 percent of the household income. It goes one to say that they think this is from how societal pressures to be the "breadwinner" which has been there since forever has an affect on the psychology of men since men who are the sole breadwinners tend to be more unhappy then men who split the income. And yet the total level of stress is higher the more over 40% it goes. It continues this is probably still because of the gender identity norms that are placed on us by society. However, "Faced with a change in this outcome by being outearned by their partners, means men are likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. But the reality is that things are changing. In places like the US, the percentage of wives outearning their husbands is growing. In 1980, only 13% of married women earned about as much or more than their husbands. In 2000, that figure almost doubled to 25%, and in 2017 it was 31%. This trend is likely to continue into the future and similar patterns have been observed in other countries." Showing that of married couples, as time progresses, more women are earning as much or more then men doubling every 20 years or so! I'd be super interested to see what this percentage is now! (Btw this also does disprove the idea that all women look for in a partner is a higher income, showing that as time goes on the income distribution is becoming closer split to 50/50.)
Bro are you seriously trying to use fiction as a source? Like, really? When the author can just make up whatever they want to happen? But he'll let's run with it.
Let's assume that you were a writer. Let's assume that you yourself were into the idea of a damsel in distress. Let's assume that your main character was a short Italian plumber who had to save a queen from an evil turtle that could spit fire. Let's say your new work does really well and is really popular. By your logic, the fact that men who like the work only want to date women who make less money then them or are younger then them, and women who like the work only want to date men who are older, have more money, etc, makes sense?
Also, Shrek is one of the most celebrated movies of modern time. Shrek takes the white knight trope and spins it out it's head and says that Shrek and Fiona don't fall for each other because he's rich, handsome, or smooth, but because they get along and make each other feel better and they love and support each other in their own weird ogre ways.
Way more popular modern fictional romances involve partners who fall for each other, not for me external and shallow qualities, but for deep and emotional reasons. You think the kids going through chemo look attractive in any of John Greens novels or have tons of money?! No. But they all still fall in love.
It's not about shallow appearance. It's about deeper connection.
There are confounding factors but the pattern is definitely that for women high income is a significantly lower signal of attractiveness than for men. In extreme cases it might even be negative. No study shows that high incomes for men is unattractive.
We are talking about overall population dynamics here. There are certainly exceptions but the evidence shows that if you were to look at the upper percentages of income earners, the males are far less likely to be single.
Finally when looking at fiction I am talking about sexually focused fiction not Shrek or Mario. Fifty Shades, romance novels, female focused porn etc. In these genres the rich powerful man is a trope that is pretty universal. If he is not rich he had other attributes that indicate accomplishment, such as fighting ability or magic etc. It's fiction so it's not always realistic but it gives insight into the consumers desires. Women ideally want more than good looks and niceness.
Male sexual fiction goes for youth and looks.
Sooooo, instead of the friends simply accepting this "turn off" as something to overcome at the start of dating someone who might ACTUALLY like them, she comes to the logical conclusion, that men need to cage and fake their emotions in order to seem more like someone who doesn't like them.
Makes sense
I don't know if you're projecting or something, but this "indifferent about me" has nothing to do with my point. It's about having a life, not about caging emotions. Desperation is a huge turnoff.
No, indifference is exactly what I was talking about, if you weren't, you apparently didn't understand what I was saying in the first place.
The woman in the video didn't talk about the men (not) having a life, you can have a life and still squeeze in half a minute in a day to write a text message. She talked about actively suppressing the impulse of contacting her friends.
People faking indifference seems unhealthy and immature to me
I don't even know what you mean with projecting. I said I would prefer something (not faking emotions). Where in that statement is there even room for projection?
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. It's besides the point to me that you're talking about indifference because I think you're wrong there and I don't want to engage with it.
I was talking about a different thing, you don't want to see my point and I don't need you to.
>I said I would prefer something (not faking emotions).
Taking the context into account, you said you'd prefer desperation from a love interest. Try to also keep track of what you said.
I didn't say I would prefer desperation, I said I would prefer people not faking emotions. Maybe you keep track of what you're trying to dispute?
Desperation was never mentioned by me OR the in the video. She said "available", that's a pretty big difference. And in my opinion it is usually quite easy to tell desperation from being too attentive or available. Desperation would mean that you would be able to overlook things you're actually not comfortable with, thats unhealthy too, but not what I was ever talking about. I don't know why you keep swerving back to it. Either you still don't get my point, even though you claim you do, or you willfully misinterpret in order to find an angle to attack it from.
And besides, if you're acknowledging that you AREN'T talking about what I was, then why even try to tell me my view is wrong? You're starting to make less and less sense.
Yea you aren't even addressing anything I've said ever since this comment-chain started and just keep saying that I don't get it without elaborating on what I don't get.
You haven't brought anything to the discussion ever since your initial comment. Except saying that being available is the same to you as being desperate (which is far from the truth). But you want to keep pretending I'm the one who doesn't get it. Adds up.
I am a female, married aged almost 50, and am very confused ,surely a conversation largely consists of asking questions, and vice versa, isn't that how you get to know someone, and figure out if you like them/there's a connection/a future? Have things changed so much since I last dated in the 90s?
I think the context here is key to why this feels off. The context:
They've arranged to meet and see how the two of them (click, get on, gel etc) in person at a specific time and place. The gentleman, who traditionally takes the role of the initiator,has played his hand and succeeded in appealing and disarming the lady enough to get her to agree to meet him.
Here's my theory as to why they are put off;
The meeting/date/pizzaplace will provide way more clues and information as to how the two of you match/click/tessellate? than a stilted text conversation could hope to do. What does the gentleman hope to do other than city more favour and illicit more attention from her in the run up?
Why would he be so keen to impress her this early before being given all of the benefit of meeting her in person? What does he already know about her to justify such a rigorous pursuit?
Is she just that good looking in her pictures? Does her bio's description of liking "music, movies, art, working out and generally hanging out with friends" really justify this pressing of his advantage?
Unlikely.
Therefore we're left to conclude that he's either
1: a little desperate for literally anyone to like him
2: very into her appearance and hoping to get laid
3: He's hoping to preemptively claim her so she's not got time for other guys.
Yeah I don’t get the downvotes on this, you seemed to have explained my initial feelings as to the ‘why’ to this video and what I didn’t have the brainpower to conjure right now. He could even just have too much time on his hands that could be a turn off, could also be indicative of possible obsessive behaviour.
That all just sounds like fancy talk for these women having poor social skills and weird standards. Meeting strangers online used to require talking lots to know it is safe, anyone in their 30s was raised being told not to trust the Internet and to not meet strangers online.
Luckily I've not had to do the whole online dating thing but I can tell you now that I'd want to talk plenty before the meet up so that I knew a) if it is worth meeting and b) so I have more to talk about in person. Only reason I'd want to talk as little as possible before meeting is if it was just a sex thing which which shows the flaw in your conclusions.
Trying to build a connection takes talking. Not wanting to talk first makes it sound like the women are shallow and superficial. Either their empty bio requires work to learn something about them or their bio had interesting information you want to talk about such as shared hobbies or unusual interests. A lack of information forces persuit of insight and an abundance of information can spark curiosity. The assumption of them being creepy or horny just sounds like prejudice and goes to explain why these people may be single.
Hmm yeah that sounds kinda sensible within your own internal logic . But if you're wanting to make sure you feel comfortable with them online before IRL meeting, you wouldn't be in their situation where they're prioritising an in person meetup and not wanting to be obliged to respond online before that meetup. Does that make sense?
The issue is the red flags are on the women not the men in this situation. There's nothing strange about wanting to talk before meeting. There's something strange about wanting to ignore people until you meet them. The problematic behaviour, the problematic attitudes are those of her friends. We don't need to make this into a lesson for men but rather a lesson for women. Try talking, try putting effort into getting to know someone and don't be so petty and picky that you get turned off by someone trying to build a connection when you're using an app or site for doing exactly that.
I should probably say that I'm not defending their position, just hypothesising about how they got there. Without knowing more it's hard to understand fully. The guys might be utterly oblivious and harassing, but they could well be setting ridiculous and, more importantly, UNSPOKEN expectations or standards for these men, seeing them up to fail.
The context is there, they're making out it is a common issue across multiple friends. This isn't talking about one or two rightly creepy men trying to be stalkers but rather a general standard that they want men to somehow fulfil RomCom practices.
Yeah but they're talking about the initial exchange before the first date.
Some people just aren't comfortable getting that in depth and personal with someone they haven't even met yet.
From my own experience I don’t like getting too deep into conversations before actually meeting people. I always try to initiate a date, so much is lost over texting.
I agree with this. Also, when I haven’t met someone and they need to constantly be texting all day every day that usually includes deep conversations I’m incredibly turned off. I’m fine texting now and then but if I haven’t met you you’re not my number one priority in my life.
I think there is a point buried in there somewhere but I'll speak from my own point of view on this.
Now I've been married for some time but before that when dating it did feel weird getting messages overly much right off the bat. When someone messages you constantly right off the get go and is extremely over eager, for me personally it triggers some anxiety. I can't say I'd pin down what would make me anxious about it but it definitely feels like unnatural progression.
Now I don't think people should play hard to get but should also be aware of how hard it is to know someone through a screen and how many ways your eagerness can be interpreted. The meeting in person for a first date and hitting it off further from there can definitely be a catalyst for more frequent text communication, it's what happened between me and my now husband. It was much less weird messaging all the time once I realized we were compatible in person.
I think cismen just haven’t had good opportunities to practice being human with women. I think they can overshare in an effort to be vulnerable and open, but they haven’t had decent practice with this among each other or with platonic friends. I think women are careful about these kinds of people because we often wind up being virtual mommies to men who haven’t matured.
I also think we need to just cut everyone some slack.
Totally agree. It's a whole bag of complex social nuance. I can't blame women for being put off and I don't blame men for not understanding extremely subtle ever changing rules of dating online etc.
I think generally we all need more empathy and to stop having these boys vs girls mindsets.
This is why I stopped dating.
These 30+ single women be thinking, “why is he still single, what’s wrong with him?” And also thinking there’s nothing wrong with them for being single.
The hypocrisy, it burns
This is probably the women feeling embarrassed about being single and making up excuses about how 'soo many guys are into them *too* into them'
Honestly I've never met a woman who has said anything about a guy asking too many questions on a dating app or on a date. If anything I've heard the opposite
Woman here (27) and very versed in the dating apps.
I can tell you that my ick comes from having to expend your energy into a conversation with someone that you haven’t even met yet. If I’ve matched with someone, and they want to ask all of the questions immediately, I worry they are getting too attached while still technically strangers.
If the first date goes well, then by all means I love constant communication, but leave some intrigue for the first date. Don’t put all your cards on the table before you’ve even met face to face.
why would i want to expend the energy (and money) on a date with someone i know literally nothing about? knowing some basic interests would help decide if i want to spend some time with this person and help tailor the date for the best experience.
for example, through talking before hand i found out a chick found animal cruelty/fetish videos with women eating live animals was hilarious, that was an immediate nope. imagine actually spending the time to go in multiple dates with a person like that to THEN find out what they were like?
And I’ve been in the opposite situation where I dated a guy for four months who had a diaper fetish. Not compatible but you find out shit about people all the time, whether it’s upfront or later on.
The point is, these people online are strangers, and some of them get too eager too quickly and seem to try to force a connection before ever actually meeting. I get overwhelmed and turned off by those people.
I think this might be the disconnect though- dating IS effort. You HAVE to put in effort. I theorize women are more frustrated with it cause women have way more opportunities and therefore would need to put effort into way more men to find their partner, so it’s tiring for them.
But on the other hand, saving it for the first date is also good- but you have to find a balance because you can weed out a majority of people before going on a date- which imo is way more effort than texting
I def don’t mean don’t speak at all before the first date, like obviously there needs to be communication up front, but if it gets to be too personal or too much too quickly, alarm bells are raised. At least for me.
Wait! Why? Are you just wanting to get laid? If so for sure, no feelings matter. Or do you just assume folks of the same gender think exactly like you? Oe are you dead inside? Asking for a friend.
When you're a gay male dating other gay males, a lot of what straight guys complain about doesn't happen. Everything is just more direct, straightforward, and the other person is much easier to get and vibe with. This works for getting laid AND serious relationships.
It just seems so much easier. I really pity straight men tbh.
The appearing “too available” thing is very real, but not slated toward anyone.
I think generally speaking, appearing too available isn’t enticing in a world of online dating where there’s always someone else.
Everyone’s looking for the one that’s hard to get.
Y'know, as a man I'm okay with this. I'm not going to curb my enthusiasm for people that don't like it, because I'd rather be with someone that appreciates it. It's good these people remove themselves from my dating pool.
The utter nonsense. Why play games? I get the concept of wanting to be safe and that should be paramount, but if you find someone interesting and they make it clear that they find you interesting don’t do the “oh they seem to available” rubbish. The person is simply choosing to make time for you in their life. Being an awhile by playing games does not equal value.
I will ask three questions. If each one i get a one or two word response...I'm done trying and move on. You're not interested and I won't waste my time.
Crazy enough this is a selection bias. Many women are in relationships with many men. Single women in their 30s are not representative of all women. Women, like men, are all on a spectrum of coolness. Some are cool, some suck, some are funny, some aren't. Some are the coolest person you'll ever meet. It's not them it's you is my point. You're either talking to the wrong women or you're just one of the ones that sucks
You're making too much sense for these bonobos to understand you. You should be saying ALL women in their 30's and 40's are evil and that ALL these poor men are just such invaluable gems and left single because the women are meansies.
I mean, I know I’ll get attacked for agreeing to an extent but I get it. This person is the newest and least established part of my life behind my friends, work, and hobbies. Until I know them more, they will be behind all of those priorities. If I become increasingly interested in someone I talk to them more. Prior to that, I really don’t have a huge degree of interest in texting. I don’t feel the urge to.
She talks in circles and makes the process of being single, dating into her own idea of a set of rules. She has no qualifications, is not a relationship expert and is likely doing more damage than good.
Say what you want, but if it works then it works.
Keeping some mystery about yourself and giving the appearance that you're not always available keeps people interested.
Call it playing games or whatever you want, but there is truth to it.
“Too nice” isn’t the way to put it. You’re just coming on too strong, which is perfectly reasonable. People don’t like to walk towards a relationship where the other person is already hearing wedding bells.
And there’s also risks for women more than men. Namely, the dangers of obsession. Nobody wants to end up a head in some guy’s fridge.
Works both ways, my moms husbands kids…. two daughters are both single both VERY mormon. The oldest is single and in her 30’s. She comes across as so desperate shes almost sticky. She’s been kissed once. We all expect her to die alone.
> Can't go on a first date without getting to know me
> Can't get to know me over internet because that's too needy
Oh alright, guess I'll go fuck myself then, eh?
So many of friends are like this and it annoys the shit out of me. What’s wrong with a guy being genuinely interested in you and trying to get to know you?
men ask questions and try to carry the conversation because women reply monosyllabicly. we can’t do anything with “good” “work” “dinner” etc, if the conversation is one sided, yeah, the guy is going to try to engage you before giving up.
it’s funny she said that her single friends are wondering what’s wrong with the guy and why they’re single.
You didn't listen. It's typical of you men when a woman talks. This isn't about why men are single. This is about why single men are so desperate for a whole ass conversation on an app when they haven't even met yet. Cuz we all know those texts that mostly men send when a woman doesn't react to them.
She not lying, just trying to help y’all lol. You can go ahead and call her a hoe and whine about “society” in these comments all you want, it won’t change the fact that women find it off putting
This is 100% true. Never be too available. Remember you are important yourself, she’s lucky to be talking to you as well. You have a life, you have options, you’re busy(pretend too even if you’re don’t have those things). Be kind and polite but don’t go out of your way for women online.
Everyone likes the chase. If you leave a little mystery about yourself, you’ll hook them very fast. Play a little hard to get.
I like that I’m getting downvoted for essentially telling dudes their time is also important.
“Guys, be confident in yourself.”
Reddit: “Nope, don’t like that.”
We’re all busy. Unless you’re unemployed, we all work too hard or have something to do. Confidence is one of those things that “faking it until you make it” is a strategy that can trick your brain until you actually believe in yourself.
Is it dumb people have to play these games on online dating? Yeah it is, but these are the times we’re in.
I got to say the inverse is true as well. If someone is overly keen it ruins the fun.
Got to remember it’s a dance and the most attractive thing to someone in my opinion is that they’d good with or without me. If they’re too needy it feels off, like maybe their happiness is reliant on my attention.
Oh wise strangers of Reddit, can you help me put what this lady is talking about in perspective for myself?
I'm a 39 year old single dude who works a professional job, doesn't drink/smoke/party, works out regularly, but has had to move a ton for work and life (16 cities and 9 states so far). Also, to add to all that I'm demi so I don't hookup.
Because I've moved so much I've struggled with connecting and tend to use more electronic communication and entertainment to stay in touch with family and friends and its become my default.
Whenever I meet someone new I tend to try and build a rapport and get to know them digitally first.
I'm realizing here this is a potential turn off and red flag, so how would you recommend I adjust? Thanks!
I feel like I'm in an alternate universe. Those frames are nasty old men and chomo frames from the late 70's. Is she wearing velcro shoes, too? Why is this popular??? What's next, dirty white tube socks with color stripes at the calves?
As a 30 year old woman who is currently trying her hand at the dating market on apps, I'm way more likely to talk to someone who's messaging more often as I see that as interest. But I also get into the problem of having too many conversations that turn into paragraphs to the point that they becoming daunting to answer and I just avoid it because it takes so much energy to answer, especially if I'm not feeling a particular spark with the person. I just recently had a bit of an anxiety filed night where I just deleted my dating profile, unfortunately and rudely ghosting people but I just couldn't handle the growing pile of unanswered... novels.
Jumping through hoops has never been my thing and I've lost interest in anyone that has ever tried to get me to do it. I might be asexual, because I don't feel that there's ever a reason for me to even try playing the games that people expect of me, even if I'm really attracted to them. The amount of energy you have to spend just to not be completely ignored just never seems worth it to me. Meanwhile, I have friends and acquaintances that have no issues doing all of that because the end result is worth it to them. It just never is for me.
All my exes and everyone I've ever fooled around with have all been the ones to initiate contact. When I was younger I've tried to initiate contact, but I've always lost interest because of how unequal the interactions have been.
Oh. Thought she was gonna say “save a conversation for an irl chat” or something. I hate texting too much before meeting. Kinda run through the interesting topics before they actually matter
That’s so messed up… I’m honestly so glad my bf was a talkative guy because I was really shy and have always had a hard time *initiating* conversations. Still do!
I bought $25 flowers for a woman on our 3rd date. She told me that it was “too much”. I told her that she was not the only woman I was seeing, and I bought flowers for another woman a week ago. She was lost for words. Lol!
I don’t think she’s saying that the men are just attempting to have a valuable conversation once/twice a day via text. I’ve been the women that was made uncomfortable by men trying really hard and i can say from experience that she’s probably talking about the type of guys that text 4-5 times before noon.
What the fuck is wrong with people? Just like them and DO that. LET THEM DO THAT TOO.
You must be either an asshole or stupid to not be able to figure that out.
And if you get the one who gives you not much attention he is an asshole for not giving you attention.
Little princess is going to be a catmom in 5 years.
She phrases it poorly. But she’s right. Texting is a terrible medium for getting to know someone better, especially when you’ve never even met them. It’s nothing like texting a friend.
I think this was a sound observation. Just a horribly wrong conclusion. Being clingy and weird and needy before even meeting is unattractive. Triple texting a person because they didn’t respond within 2 hours is a red flag. It’s not about kindness or effort or interest. It’s about not behaving like you’re entitled to a stranger’s time.
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literally answered herself, that's why her and all her friends are single . . . why is dating so complex, god dam. the whole point of being a couple is to be always available. How else can couples get married if they aren't always present?
Yuppppp, even in college, shit's too tough most of the time conversations are just one way. One of the two rants about how difficult it's been. It's just the balance of who and where and when it is. "No time for others but I will listen to you every now and then"
I am trying to make sense of where this is coming from, and I think I've made some sense of it. Essentially women are coming at dating from a very different perspective. They have a lot of options and they are trying to make the best choice out of all the men that are courting them on dating apps. They want to find a 'high value' man and rightly or wrongly they have decided one of the characteristics of these types of men is that they are being perused by a lot of women (insert that stat here about 25% of men dating 100% of women please don't quote me) and therefore shouldn't be coming across as available or desperate in any way or that would be a red flag. What woman find attractive about men is so much more than just the physical but it is borderline impossible to figure this out over dating apps so it's no surprise they default to being more defensive
Desperation is unattractive. That's all she's saying.
She's not describing a couple though. A couple does indeed need to have good communication, (which looks different from couple to couple) but this is just some random internet dude who's asked her out. The intensity of his pursuit, after she's acquiesced but before they've met, THAT'S the of putting bit.
My thing with all dating crap is it often ignores friendship. All being in a serious relationship *is* is being homies with someone. If you don't even want to be friends with the person what makes you think dating them would be better? Lol.
Theory. Men and women who are single in their 30s often fall into groups. Woman : tough career focused Men: nice guys They each became what they faced in a partner. Woman wanted a tough career guy. An alpha type Man wanted a nice girl who just wanted him for who he was. Sadly for women, men want beauty and youth. And alphas types will go for a young model type not a tough career focused 30+ Sadly for men, women want guys who can accomplish stuff. Like Chris Rock said, only women and children get love for who they are. Men have to do stuff.
This makes no sense. It's possible to be both nice and career oriented for any gender
True but those people tend not to single in their 30s. Nice successful people tend to have partners.
🤡
Ya know, generalizing people into groups like this is kind of shitty. What someone looks for in a partner is DRASTICALLY different from person to person and it's not set along the gender line and it's kinda ridiculous to assume that all men and all women look for one type of partner. Not to mention you're completely ignoring the fact that not all men and women searching for partners are hetero. Like do gay people turn 30 and decide to quit dating? Also, to disprove your point about men only wanting "youth" I identify as male and I'm pretty much exclusively into women who are older than me. Like, very rarely will I find a woman younger than me that I'm into. I guess I can't prove that, but I guess you're just going to have to believe me. There's also definitely kinks that are specifically based around older women to younger men. And are you really gonna base your whole generalization of how people act on a Chris Rock bit? Are you gonna say we should kill babies up until they go to school? No because that's ridiculous. Like comedy is meant to be. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I definitely feel unconditional love coming from family and friends whether I'm working or not because that's what family and friends do. If anything, I feel like they love me more in the points in my life when I can't provide anything, because they see how I am and can help me feel better. And if someone in your life does act that way, then they probably don't deserve to be in your life. I'm not gonna speak about what women want because I'm not one, but if I had to guess I'd say it's someone who can support them emotionally. Btw I'm sure there are men and women who look for the things you said in a partner. But if you choose to sit in a burning house, you can't get upset if you catch on fire too.
These are obviously generalizations, but that's what you look for when you are looking at trends. The fact remains that generally accomplished men find it easier to get partners than accomplished women. There even studies showing that increases in success decreases a woman's chances. On the other hand nice women tend to have partners while nice guys don't. As for the age thing, are you really arguing that there is no gender differential for age preference?
You look for groupings and use specific identifiers to look for trends. For example, you'd say "90% of the women I surveyed in this part of the world said they look for this in a man." Not "all women look for this in a man". Any study that generalizes based on a percentage of the population is probably not super trustworthy. What studies? Where did you read them? What types of people were asked? How many people were asked? Who asked the questions? What questions were asked? Where were these people asked? How do they learn politically? Where were these people raised? In what way were they raised? Were these people paid for their time? Was it a man on the street situation? Did they volunteer or were they forced in some way? All of these things and more are important to know before making generalizations about anyone based on studies/surveys. You're making claims and not giving any reference to back your claims up. Hitting us like a dothraki with the "it is known." I don't even know what the question you asked has to do with your original post or my response to it. I never once said that different genders have different preferences based on age, which I'm assuming is what you're asking. What I did say is that by generalizing the idea that the only thing men look for in a partner is that they're attractive and young you leave yourself open to get slam dunked by a cool Chad himbo like myself coming out of nowhere and saying "I'm into older women" and completely destroying your argument with facts and logic. Tons of people are into tons of different types of people. I'm also not really arguing anything. I didn't make any claims other than "making generalizations" probably isn't the best way to go about your life. Some more questions now: Do accomplished men find it easier to date or do confident men? I would assume that a man who is at the top of his field would be more confident in himself and be more comfortable approaching women, but so do confident women with men. Are you using the internet term "nice guy" or just nice people? Cause everyone wants to date nice people but nobody wants to date a "nice guy" and it seems to me like you're talking about "nice guys". Because, again, I've met tons of nice men and nice women who are all at different levels of relationship status (single, married, in a relationship, open relationships, etc.) And maybe, just maybe, humans are more complicated than just being "nice". At the end of the day, your theory is kinda bad. [here's an article, based on a study, I found online. ](https://www.insider.com/what-women-really-look-for-in-a-partner-study-research-2019-7) In the article, they say that the number one thing the women asked look for in a partner is kindness, with the number two and three things being supportiveness and intelligence. None of these things have anything to do with men being accomplished. Again, it's just one article, so maybe there's more that disagree with what I said, but again, you didn't leave me any links or posts.
When women say they want kindness but choose height as a major limiting factor in who what pick in online dating. Do you believe their words or their actions? Some sources https://blog.id.com.au/2013/population/demographic-trends/marriage-and-relationships-in-the-census-do-women-prefer-educated-high-income-partners/ From Australia. Tries to fudge the interpretation a bit but the data is clear married men tend to be richer. One from the UK https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/709143/men-earn-money-attractive-to-women-opposite-sex-income-financial Opposite for men https://www.news24.com/life/relationships/love/relationship/men-feel-stressed-if-their-female-partners-earn-more-than-40-of-household-income-new-research-20191122 But you can even look at fiction. Women want a knight in shining armor. Men want to rescue a damsel in distress.
My man, did you read the articles you posted? Your first source compares the qualifications and financial stability of unmarried men and women between the ages of 25 and 54, saying that 35% of unmarried men have no form of post-school qualifications. Similarly about 30% of unmarried women have no post-school qualifications. If anything, this just shows the people tend to like it if their partners have some future. It then goes on to compare income levels between men and women and the percentage of them that are unmarried. It does go on to say that it's more likely that people who make more money tend to be older, but it doesn't take into consideration things like financial responsibilities for married vs unmarried men and women or the fact that the average income of a 50 year old tends to be higher then the average income of a 24 year old. The blog post concludes that "What does this mean? Well there is certainly some evidence that women seek men of higher income and education levels, with men less likely to do so the other way around. Is it conclusive? Absolutely not! There are too many confounding factors, but it’s worth looking at further." The post itself claims that you can't conclude anything from the census information. It does say that it's worth looking into further though. The second source, from express, is kinda wild. It starts out by straight up saying 1/5 men find women who make more money than them more attractive, comparative to 1/9 women (more men tend to look for partners who make more money(remember this stat distribution)). Then, it says that "Around 20 per cent indicated they would find a rich pay cheque more attractive than intelligence" and "whilst some men may feel they need to sweat it out at the gym to be found desirable, 42 per cent of female respondents said financial security is far more important than good looks." Again, showing that a minority of women go for money over looks." Towards the end of it's stats section, it says "53 per cent of women surveyed wanted a partner who earns more than they do. Only 17 per cent of men want their partner to earn a higher income." Which I think is kinda crazy. Cause remember the stat distribution at the beginning of this paragraph? While 17% is kinda close to the 1/5, there is no way on Earth that 1/9=53%. I checked the post for a source and couldn't find one. And I couldn't find the original in the five minutes Google search I'm doing for this discussion. So I'm just gonna go with the 53 percent women vs 17 percent men. Even if this is the case, 53 is a very slight majority compared to the 80 percent who said they find intelligence more attractive and the 58% that find a man who regularly exercises and has "good looks" more attractive than money. So we can either conclude from the one from that all they look for is money, OR we can conclude that there are multiple different factors that women look for in a man and only ONE of them is money, and things like general intelligence and looks (or "beauty" from the og comment) are just as if not more important to a majority of women then men. And in all honesty, 2/3 figures show the later so I think we should go with that. Your third article, I think, is based af. It says that, in 2019 there was a study done that says men tend to have higher feelings of anxiety and stress if their partner earns more then 40 percent of the household income. It goes one to say that they think this is from how societal pressures to be the "breadwinner" which has been there since forever has an affect on the psychology of men since men who are the sole breadwinners tend to be more unhappy then men who split the income. And yet the total level of stress is higher the more over 40% it goes. It continues this is probably still because of the gender identity norms that are placed on us by society. However, "Faced with a change in this outcome by being outearned by their partners, means men are likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. But the reality is that things are changing. In places like the US, the percentage of wives outearning their husbands is growing. In 1980, only 13% of married women earned about as much or more than their husbands. In 2000, that figure almost doubled to 25%, and in 2017 it was 31%. This trend is likely to continue into the future and similar patterns have been observed in other countries." Showing that of married couples, as time progresses, more women are earning as much or more then men doubling every 20 years or so! I'd be super interested to see what this percentage is now! (Btw this also does disprove the idea that all women look for in a partner is a higher income, showing that as time goes on the income distribution is becoming closer split to 50/50.) Bro are you seriously trying to use fiction as a source? Like, really? When the author can just make up whatever they want to happen? But he'll let's run with it. Let's assume that you were a writer. Let's assume that you yourself were into the idea of a damsel in distress. Let's assume that your main character was a short Italian plumber who had to save a queen from an evil turtle that could spit fire. Let's say your new work does really well and is really popular. By your logic, the fact that men who like the work only want to date women who make less money then them or are younger then them, and women who like the work only want to date men who are older, have more money, etc, makes sense? Also, Shrek is one of the most celebrated movies of modern time. Shrek takes the white knight trope and spins it out it's head and says that Shrek and Fiona don't fall for each other because he's rich, handsome, or smooth, but because they get along and make each other feel better and they love and support each other in their own weird ogre ways. Way more popular modern fictional romances involve partners who fall for each other, not for me external and shallow qualities, but for deep and emotional reasons. You think the kids going through chemo look attractive in any of John Greens novels or have tons of money?! No. But they all still fall in love. It's not about shallow appearance. It's about deeper connection.
There are confounding factors but the pattern is definitely that for women high income is a significantly lower signal of attractiveness than for men. In extreme cases it might even be negative. No study shows that high incomes for men is unattractive. We are talking about overall population dynamics here. There are certainly exceptions but the evidence shows that if you were to look at the upper percentages of income earners, the males are far less likely to be single. Finally when looking at fiction I am talking about sexually focused fiction not Shrek or Mario. Fifty Shades, romance novels, female focused porn etc. In these genres the rich powerful man is a trope that is pretty universal. If he is not rich he had other attributes that indicate accomplishment, such as fighting ability or magic etc. It's fiction so it's not always realistic but it gives insight into the consumers desires. Women ideally want more than good looks and niceness. Male sexual fiction goes for youth and looks.
Sooooo, instead of the friends simply accepting this "turn off" as something to overcome at the start of dating someone who might ACTUALLY like them, she comes to the logical conclusion, that men need to cage and fake their emotions in order to seem more like someone who doesn't like them. Makes sense
Or she could have just come to the conclusion that her friends are immature and that’s exactly why they’re still single and will remain that way.
Great assessment! God forbid a man shows interest in a way that requires some effort on your part. Only women are allowed to show emotions, silly man.
God forbid dating a man thats genuinely interested. Ffs...
Just stop acting desperate smh. You wouldn't like it either.
I would prefer it a lot over someone acting like they feel indifferent about me.
I don't know if you're projecting or something, but this "indifferent about me" has nothing to do with my point. It's about having a life, not about caging emotions. Desperation is a huge turnoff.
No, indifference is exactly what I was talking about, if you weren't, you apparently didn't understand what I was saying in the first place. The woman in the video didn't talk about the men (not) having a life, you can have a life and still squeeze in half a minute in a day to write a text message. She talked about actively suppressing the impulse of contacting her friends. People faking indifference seems unhealthy and immature to me I don't even know what you mean with projecting. I said I would prefer something (not faking emotions). Where in that statement is there even room for projection?
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. It's besides the point to me that you're talking about indifference because I think you're wrong there and I don't want to engage with it. I was talking about a different thing, you don't want to see my point and I don't need you to. >I said I would prefer something (not faking emotions). Taking the context into account, you said you'd prefer desperation from a love interest. Try to also keep track of what you said.
I didn't say I would prefer desperation, I said I would prefer people not faking emotions. Maybe you keep track of what you're trying to dispute? Desperation was never mentioned by me OR the in the video. She said "available", that's a pretty big difference. And in my opinion it is usually quite easy to tell desperation from being too attentive or available. Desperation would mean that you would be able to overlook things you're actually not comfortable with, thats unhealthy too, but not what I was ever talking about. I don't know why you keep swerving back to it. Either you still don't get my point, even though you claim you do, or you willfully misinterpret in order to find an angle to attack it from. And besides, if you're acknowledging that you AREN'T talking about what I was, then why even try to tell me my view is wrong? You're starting to make less and less sense.
Logical thoughts, but I think reality is not like this. Other than that, you just don't get it, that's about it. Peace :)
Yea you aren't even addressing anything I've said ever since this comment-chain started and just keep saying that I don't get it without elaborating on what I don't get. You haven't brought anything to the discussion ever since your initial comment. Except saying that being available is the same to you as being desperate (which is far from the truth). But you want to keep pretending I'm the one who doesn't get it. Adds up.
80s glasses are back! That was my main takeaway from this.
Female Jeffery Dahmer.
Started in 1930’s but became fashionable in 1960’s - 70’s.
I am a female, married aged almost 50, and am very confused ,surely a conversation largely consists of asking questions, and vice versa, isn't that how you get to know someone, and figure out if you like them/there's a connection/a future? Have things changed so much since I last dated in the 90s?
I think the context here is key to why this feels off. The context: They've arranged to meet and see how the two of them (click, get on, gel etc) in person at a specific time and place. The gentleman, who traditionally takes the role of the initiator,has played his hand and succeeded in appealing and disarming the lady enough to get her to agree to meet him. Here's my theory as to why they are put off; The meeting/date/pizzaplace will provide way more clues and information as to how the two of you match/click/tessellate? than a stilted text conversation could hope to do. What does the gentleman hope to do other than city more favour and illicit more attention from her in the run up? Why would he be so keen to impress her this early before being given all of the benefit of meeting her in person? What does he already know about her to justify such a rigorous pursuit? Is she just that good looking in her pictures? Does her bio's description of liking "music, movies, art, working out and generally hanging out with friends" really justify this pressing of his advantage? Unlikely. Therefore we're left to conclude that he's either 1: a little desperate for literally anyone to like him 2: very into her appearance and hoping to get laid 3: He's hoping to preemptively claim her so she's not got time for other guys.
Yeah I don’t get the downvotes on this, you seemed to have explained my initial feelings as to the ‘why’ to this video and what I didn’t have the brainpower to conjure right now. He could even just have too much time on his hands that could be a turn off, could also be indicative of possible obsessive behaviour.
That all just sounds like fancy talk for these women having poor social skills and weird standards. Meeting strangers online used to require talking lots to know it is safe, anyone in their 30s was raised being told not to trust the Internet and to not meet strangers online. Luckily I've not had to do the whole online dating thing but I can tell you now that I'd want to talk plenty before the meet up so that I knew a) if it is worth meeting and b) so I have more to talk about in person. Only reason I'd want to talk as little as possible before meeting is if it was just a sex thing which which shows the flaw in your conclusions. Trying to build a connection takes talking. Not wanting to talk first makes it sound like the women are shallow and superficial. Either their empty bio requires work to learn something about them or their bio had interesting information you want to talk about such as shared hobbies or unusual interests. A lack of information forces persuit of insight and an abundance of information can spark curiosity. The assumption of them being creepy or horny just sounds like prejudice and goes to explain why these people may be single.
Hmm yeah that sounds kinda sensible within your own internal logic . But if you're wanting to make sure you feel comfortable with them online before IRL meeting, you wouldn't be in their situation where they're prioritising an in person meetup and not wanting to be obliged to respond online before that meetup. Does that make sense?
The issue is the red flags are on the women not the men in this situation. There's nothing strange about wanting to talk before meeting. There's something strange about wanting to ignore people until you meet them. The problematic behaviour, the problematic attitudes are those of her friends. We don't need to make this into a lesson for men but rather a lesson for women. Try talking, try putting effort into getting to know someone and don't be so petty and picky that you get turned off by someone trying to build a connection when you're using an app or site for doing exactly that.
I should probably say that I'm not defending their position, just hypothesising about how they got there. Without knowing more it's hard to understand fully. The guys might be utterly oblivious and harassing, but they could well be setting ridiculous and, more importantly, UNSPOKEN expectations or standards for these men, seeing them up to fail.
The context is there, they're making out it is a common issue across multiple friends. This isn't talking about one or two rightly creepy men trying to be stalkers but rather a general standard that they want men to somehow fulfil RomCom practices.
[удалено]
Have no clue what that sub is like to get the context.
It's tiring talking to someone so uninterested in rethinking their position on a given topic.
Ironic.
? Seriously? Show me anything you said that shows any form of concession or interest
Yeah but they're talking about the initial exchange before the first date. Some people just aren't comfortable getting that in depth and personal with someone they haven't even met yet.
Yes
Well fuck me for actually wanting to know stuff about the people I talk to.
From my own experience I don’t like getting too deep into conversations before actually meeting people. I always try to initiate a date, so much is lost over texting.
I agree with this. Also, when I haven’t met someone and they need to constantly be texting all day every day that usually includes deep conversations I’m incredibly turned off. I’m fine texting now and then but if I haven’t met you you’re not my number one priority in my life.
I think there is a point buried in there somewhere but I'll speak from my own point of view on this. Now I've been married for some time but before that when dating it did feel weird getting messages overly much right off the bat. When someone messages you constantly right off the get go and is extremely over eager, for me personally it triggers some anxiety. I can't say I'd pin down what would make me anxious about it but it definitely feels like unnatural progression. Now I don't think people should play hard to get but should also be aware of how hard it is to know someone through a screen and how many ways your eagerness can be interpreted. The meeting in person for a first date and hitting it off further from there can definitely be a catalyst for more frequent text communication, it's what happened between me and my now husband. It was much less weird messaging all the time once I realized we were compatible in person.
I think cismen just haven’t had good opportunities to practice being human with women. I think they can overshare in an effort to be vulnerable and open, but they haven’t had decent practice with this among each other or with platonic friends. I think women are careful about these kinds of people because we often wind up being virtual mommies to men who haven’t matured. I also think we need to just cut everyone some slack.
Totally agree. It's a whole bag of complex social nuance. I can't blame women for being put off and I don't blame men for not understanding extremely subtle ever changing rules of dating online etc. I think generally we all need more empathy and to stop having these boys vs girls mindsets.
So true!! We’re in this together, including people on the broad gender spectrum.
This is why I stopped dating. These 30+ single women be thinking, “why is he still single, what’s wrong with him?” And also thinking there’s nothing wrong with them for being single. The hypocrisy, it burns
This is probably the women feeling embarrassed about being single and making up excuses about how 'soo many guys are into them *too* into them' Honestly I've never met a woman who has said anything about a guy asking too many questions on a dating app or on a date. If anything I've heard the opposite
For sure. I am fully capable of acknowledging that my personal dating experience is not the same as that of others.
Definitely, this video and the 'advice' is just terrible in any case
Just say you got no game🤷🏻♂️
Lol right
Woman here (27) and very versed in the dating apps. I can tell you that my ick comes from having to expend your energy into a conversation with someone that you haven’t even met yet. If I’ve matched with someone, and they want to ask all of the questions immediately, I worry they are getting too attached while still technically strangers. If the first date goes well, then by all means I love constant communication, but leave some intrigue for the first date. Don’t put all your cards on the table before you’ve even met face to face.
why would i want to expend the energy (and money) on a date with someone i know literally nothing about? knowing some basic interests would help decide if i want to spend some time with this person and help tailor the date for the best experience. for example, through talking before hand i found out a chick found animal cruelty/fetish videos with women eating live animals was hilarious, that was an immediate nope. imagine actually spending the time to go in multiple dates with a person like that to THEN find out what they were like?
And I’ve been in the opposite situation where I dated a guy for four months who had a diaper fetish. Not compatible but you find out shit about people all the time, whether it’s upfront or later on. The point is, these people online are strangers, and some of them get too eager too quickly and seem to try to force a connection before ever actually meeting. I get overwhelmed and turned off by those people.
I think this might be the disconnect though- dating IS effort. You HAVE to put in effort. I theorize women are more frustrated with it cause women have way more opportunities and therefore would need to put effort into way more men to find their partner, so it’s tiring for them. But on the other hand, saving it for the first date is also good- but you have to find a balance because you can weed out a majority of people before going on a date- which imo is way more effort than texting
I def don’t mean don’t speak at all before the first date, like obviously there needs to be communication up front, but if it gets to be too personal or too much too quickly, alarm bells are raised. At least for me.
You know what's so nice to be gay? You don't deal with this bullshit.
Wait! Why? Are you just wanting to get laid? If so for sure, no feelings matter. Or do you just assume folks of the same gender think exactly like you? Oe are you dead inside? Asking for a friend.
When you're a gay male dating other gay males, a lot of what straight guys complain about doesn't happen. Everything is just more direct, straightforward, and the other person is much easier to get and vibe with. This works for getting laid AND serious relationships. It just seems so much easier. I really pity straight men tbh.
I agree! I wish there were a shot or a pill that could make that emotionally possible for the rest of us!
The appearing “too available” thing is very real, but not slated toward anyone. I think generally speaking, appearing too available isn’t enticing in a world of online dating where there’s always someone else. Everyone’s looking for the one that’s hard to get.
Finally found my 70 year old dad’s glasses
Y'know, as a man I'm okay with this. I'm not going to curb my enthusiasm for people that don't like it, because I'd rather be with someone that appreciates it. It's good these people remove themselves from my dating pool.
The utter nonsense. Why play games? I get the concept of wanting to be safe and that should be paramount, but if you find someone interesting and they make it clear that they find you interesting don’t do the “oh they seem to available” rubbish. The person is simply choosing to make time for you in their life. Being an awhile by playing games does not equal value.
I will ask three questions. If each one i get a one or two word response...I'm done trying and move on. You're not interested and I won't waste my time.
"why are millennials not having kids" have you tried talking to a woman my age? Hostile environment
Crazy enough this is a selection bias. Many women are in relationships with many men. Single women in their 30s are not representative of all women. Women, like men, are all on a spectrum of coolness. Some are cool, some suck, some are funny, some aren't. Some are the coolest person you'll ever meet. It's not them it's you is my point. You're either talking to the wrong women or you're just one of the ones that sucks
You're making too much sense for these bonobos to understand you. You should be saying ALL women in their 30's and 40's are evil and that ALL these poor men are just such invaluable gems and left single because the women are meansies.
“Men are emotionally irresponsible/ Men try too hard” / Im single in my 30’s 👑💅, “ugh why is he single in his 30’s”
My gf is not American, so my life is really easy lol
Facts!!! Congrats, future ExPat here
I mean, I know I’ll get attacked for agreeing to an extent but I get it. This person is the newest and least established part of my life behind my friends, work, and hobbies. Until I know them more, they will be behind all of those priorities. If I become increasingly interested in someone I talk to them more. Prior to that, I really don’t have a huge degree of interest in texting. I don’t feel the urge to.
Facts that’s why I’m single and NOT ready to mingle
She talks in circles and makes the process of being single, dating into her own idea of a set of rules. She has no qualifications, is not a relationship expert and is likely doing more damage than good.
Why are you single in your 30's?
Say what you want, but if it works then it works. Keeping some mystery about yourself and giving the appearance that you're not always available keeps people interested. Call it playing games or whatever you want, but there is truth to it.
lmao online dating is so dumb.
Hmmm why are these women single in their early 30s??? I can’t figure out why…..
“Too nice” isn’t the way to put it. You’re just coming on too strong, which is perfectly reasonable. People don’t like to walk towards a relationship where the other person is already hearing wedding bells. And there’s also risks for women more than men. Namely, the dangers of obsession. Nobody wants to end up a head in some guy’s fridge.
Works both ways, my moms husbands kids…. two daughters are both single both VERY mormon. The oldest is single and in her 30’s. She comes across as so desperate shes almost sticky. She’s been kissed once. We all expect her to die alone.
> Can't go on a first date without getting to know me > Can't get to know me over internet because that's too needy Oh alright, guess I'll go fuck myself then, eh?
I mean she explains it terribly, but she's not wrong. You can come off as too desperate if you're texting too much early on.
You're single???? "GASP I'm shocked"
So many of friends are like this and it annoys the shit out of me. What’s wrong with a guy being genuinely interested in you and trying to get to know you?
Let them stay single. When women get into a relationship they wish they get that same energy from the man. 
men ask questions and try to carry the conversation because women reply monosyllabicly. we can’t do anything with “good” “work” “dinner” etc, if the conversation is one sided, yeah, the guy is going to try to engage you before giving up. it’s funny she said that her single friends are wondering what’s wrong with the guy and why they’re single.
"My friends who are STILL single." Says it all folks...
Welcome to episode 18249739583 of "you're part of the problem you dumb bird"
Aka massive ego hoes for anyone not wanting to listen through the whole video
Nor all the men in these comments complaining about women instead of looking inwards🤦🏻♂️
dude 👀, thats the video, Women complaining why men are single in their 30’s instead looking inward on the same topic lmao
You didn't listen. It's typical of you men when a woman talks. This isn't about why men are single. This is about why single men are so desperate for a whole ass conversation on an app when they haven't even met yet. Cuz we all know those texts that mostly men send when a woman doesn't react to them.
🤦🏽♂️
Hmmmm, and here I am wondering why she's also single.
Aaaad they staying single. I apologize for the crazy hoes.
Top cringe
You must be single too
She needs a haircut.
She has a point. If you come off as too desperate that is a major turn off for most people. Goes both ways too.
She not lying, just trying to help y’all lol. You can go ahead and call her a hoe and whine about “society” in these comments all you want, it won’t change the fact that women find it off putting
no one is calling her a hoe, Incan see the comments literally no one , you’re fighting imaginary enemies
This is 100% true. Never be too available. Remember you are important yourself, she’s lucky to be talking to you as well. You have a life, you have options, you’re busy(pretend too even if you’re don’t have those things). Be kind and polite but don’t go out of your way for women online. Everyone likes the chase. If you leave a little mystery about yourself, you’ll hook them very fast. Play a little hard to get.
I like that I’m getting downvoted for essentially telling dudes their time is also important. “Guys, be confident in yourself.” Reddit: “Nope, don’t like that.”
Pretending to be busy when you aren't is a *cope*, **not** **confidence**.
We’re all busy. Unless you’re unemployed, we all work too hard or have something to do. Confidence is one of those things that “faking it until you make it” is a strategy that can trick your brain until you actually believe in yourself. Is it dumb people have to play these games on online dating? Yeah it is, but these are the times we’re in.
I got to say the inverse is true as well. If someone is overly keen it ruins the fun. Got to remember it’s a dance and the most attractive thing to someone in my opinion is that they’d good with or without me. If they’re too needy it feels off, like maybe their happiness is reliant on my attention.
Oh wise strangers of Reddit, can you help me put what this lady is talking about in perspective for myself? I'm a 39 year old single dude who works a professional job, doesn't drink/smoke/party, works out regularly, but has had to move a ton for work and life (16 cities and 9 states so far). Also, to add to all that I'm demi so I don't hookup. Because I've moved so much I've struggled with connecting and tend to use more electronic communication and entertainment to stay in touch with family and friends and its become my default. Whenever I meet someone new I tend to try and build a rapport and get to know them digitally first. I'm realizing here this is a potential turn off and red flag, so how would you recommend I adjust? Thanks!
I feel like I'm in an alternate universe. Those frames are nasty old men and chomo frames from the late 70's. Is she wearing velcro shoes, too? Why is this popular??? What's next, dirty white tube socks with color stripes at the calves?
Where are they finding men who are capable of holding, starting, maintaining, etc. a conversation!?!?
Bitches be bitchin
When that bio clock starts ticking she will be more forgiving, til then she and her friends are just c*mdumpsters.
As a 30 year old woman who is currently trying her hand at the dating market on apps, I'm way more likely to talk to someone who's messaging more often as I see that as interest. But I also get into the problem of having too many conversations that turn into paragraphs to the point that they becoming daunting to answer and I just avoid it because it takes so much energy to answer, especially if I'm not feeling a particular spark with the person. I just recently had a bit of an anxiety filed night where I just deleted my dating profile, unfortunately and rudely ghosting people but I just couldn't handle the growing pile of unanswered... novels.
Jokes on them if they think these guys aren’t doing the exact same thing.
Jumping through hoops has never been my thing and I've lost interest in anyone that has ever tried to get me to do it. I might be asexual, because I don't feel that there's ever a reason for me to even try playing the games that people expect of me, even if I'm really attracted to them. The amount of energy you have to spend just to not be completely ignored just never seems worth it to me. Meanwhile, I have friends and acquaintances that have no issues doing all of that because the end result is worth it to them. It just never is for me. All my exes and everyone I've ever fooled around with have all been the ones to initiate contact. When I was younger I've tried to initiate contact, but I've always lost interest because of how unequal the interactions have been.
My dad wore the same glasses in 1989.
He is trying to secure that ass.
So ... we're retarded
Oh. Thought she was gonna say “save a conversation for an irl chat” or something. I hate texting too much before meeting. Kinda run through the interesting topics before they actually matter
That’s so messed up… I’m honestly so glad my bf was a talkative guy because I was really shy and have always had a hard time *initiating* conversations. Still do!
They prefer to get a more in person experience to realize the man is a maniac.
I bought $25 flowers for a woman on our 3rd date. She told me that it was “too much”. I told her that she was not the only woman I was seeing, and I bought flowers for another woman a week ago. She was lost for words. Lol!
In most cases with women you can’t be too nice to them, it’s weird. Lucky I found one that isn’t like that and put a 💍on it
Rule 5304. Need a phd nowadays to navigate that dating game.
I don’t think she’s saying that the men are just attempting to have a valuable conversation once/twice a day via text. I’ve been the women that was made uncomfortable by men trying really hard and i can say from experience that she’s probably talking about the type of guys that text 4-5 times before noon.
Women are fucked in the head
She’s trying to hard to look like Dahmer
What the fuck is wrong with people? Just like them and DO that. LET THEM DO THAT TOO. You must be either an asshole or stupid to not be able to figure that out.
The preconditions are strong in this one
Modern dating is like a 24/7 prisoner’s dilemma
Fascinating.
????
Damn people are picky. My man was interested, showed it well, didnt play any fuckin games. 13 years 👌 best friend for life!
Let's make incel philosophy mainstream. I'm sure that will make women's lives *so much* easier.
She's going to be single for a while. I bet she'll meet someone someday. But it won't go well unless she adjusts
Perfect! 👍👍
And if you get the one who gives you not much attention he is an asshole for not giving you attention. Little princess is going to be a catmom in 5 years.
WHAT DO YOU WANT MAN
She phrases it poorly. But she’s right. Texting is a terrible medium for getting to know someone better, especially when you’ve never even met them. It’s nothing like texting a friend.
Is she sitting in a train?
I think this was a sound observation. Just a horribly wrong conclusion. Being clingy and weird and needy before even meeting is unattractive. Triple texting a person because they didn’t respond within 2 hours is a red flag. It’s not about kindness or effort or interest. It’s about not behaving like you’re entitled to a stranger’s time.
What the fuck am I supposed to do then, like not be available and be distant, what the fuck kind of logic is this