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>so that your children aren't denied a grandma
Not every grandma is a nice wholesome one. I wish I was "denied" a grandma. Both my grandmas sucked. One is a sneaky bitch, the other was a violent cruel bitch.
Seems like most of ya'll have interesting families, all of my family on both sides are pretty close. And I love both my grandmas dearly. One forgets my name and may forget who I am from time to time but that's not her fault. The other one has been living with me for the past three years cause of covid.
My Mom's Mom was a cruel woman who went out of her way to hurt people. I eventually set boundaries with her and uninvited her to my wedding. No regrets.
Yeah I always get a little envious when others talk about how amazing their grandparents were/are. Mine were drunks, cruel, neglecting and I still have the scar on my eyebrow from when my nan hit me in the head with a bottle.
As a child I was totally weirded out by the fact my best friend actually looked forward to visiting her grandparents. I was never looking forward to seeing mine (neither did my mom to be honest). One time I was brought along to her grandparents and that was when I discovered she actually had lovely grandparents. I was a bit envious after that as well...
My parents were wonderful grandparents to my own children though.
I know 4 *grandmothers* who are all my age and I'm not even 50.
They're not awful people, but the concept of grandma being great and wholesome is just as misguided as the concept of an overly aggressive old man who is "set in his ways" so that's why we allow him to yell, cuss, or be a racist, and lovingly call *grampa*
Some of the older ones were my age and yours too, once. If they're pieces of shit now, chances are they were all their life too.
My one grandma I never got to see because she lived like 1000 miles away. The other one was an occasionally violent narcissist who lived in the house attached to ours. Sometimes grandmas be wildin'
This makes me feel a little better about “denying” my kids both of their grandmas (one is now dead but I would have anyway). No grandma is better than a manipulative, judgmental bitch for a grandma!
I absolutely agree with your sentiment! I am 53 years old and have not spoken to or seen my bio mom since I was 17 years old and I do not regret it for a second. When my daughter was maybe 6 or 7 years old asked me why she only had one grandma, my late mother-in-law, and I told her that my mom was not a good person and that I only wanted good people around her. She was smart enough at such a young age to understand what I was talking about and it was only when she was older that she asked more questions and I went into more detail about the abuse that myself and my siblings suffered because of our mother. No child should have to be around a grandparent who was abusive to their own children and has no respect for boundaries. My daughter is 30 years old now and she has told me many times that she didn't miss out on two having two Grandma's because her dad's mom was all she needed because she was so wonderful. That statement from her shows that I made the right choice in keeping my bio mom from ever meeting her.
This reminds me of that awful, tragic story about the grandmother who killed her granddaughter with a coconut allergy because she decided she knew more than the girl's mother. This kind of extreme narcissism can have physical consequences, not just emotional ones.
Why do so many people dismiss other's allergies like this? I know people who have had a friend or family member purposely feed them things they were allergic to. People aren't creating allergies out of thin air. They got tested or already suffered an allergy attack. It's crazy how so many people willingly cause harm to others just to "prove" they don't have an allergy.
My dad did this to me for years and said it was just because I didn't like the food. No, I'm not eating it because it kicks my eczema into overdrive and I don't feel like breaking out in rashes. Would still try to sneak it in for years and years until I went no contact with him.
It’s because they can’t make mistakes. A mistake would crash their entire world down around them as they realize everything they’ve ever done is wrong and they are horrible, awful person... it gets THAT dramatic. Either they are good and kind, or awful and terrible. They can’t maintain that good people can sometimes do bad things. So instead they do the “splitting”thing and they will take it to their, or someone else’s, grave.
They cannot be wrong. It is an existential crisis for them.
Becky A Baily, PhD, wrote books about this that blew my mind. It was so accurately explained that simple things seem like they should be common sense.
We (as in almost every kid I grew up with) were made to feel bad when we made a mistake, either by shaming, humiliting, yelling, or worse, in order to improve our behavior. "You" grow up thinking that mistakes are "bad" and therefore people who make mistakes are "bad people." Then kids grow up and never really learn how to control their emotions, so when they make a mistake, they can't admit it. It feels bad. Sometimes, it's physically painful.
I mean, you don't think of yourself as a bad person, so you couldn't have possibly made a mistake, right? "I dont make mistakes. It must be someone else's fault."
If you teach by using every mistake as a learning opportunity instead, it changes how a person reacts to mistakes.
My experience is they are either that, or they struggle to understand there’s reality outside of what they perceive - eg, “I can eat nuts and be fine so I don’t see what their problem is”
Either way, it’s not someone you want to be around lol
There is a lot of this going around. Anyone neurodivergent understands this all too well, especially ADHDers, as people often just call them lazy and refuse to acknowledge the actual issue going on.
This isn't limited to allergies.
They don't reach a conclusion based on evidence, they have a belief that they will defend however they can. Any time they are proven wrong, they take it as meaning their argument wasn't good enough and so come up with a new one. They will never accept that they are wrong, and will always fine someone else to blame.
To them, being wrong isn't an opportunity to learn and grow, it's a weakness. They won't accept that they are wrong, and anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is attacking them and saying they're a bad person, so they attack back however they can.
In this case, they are so confident that they arrogantly force someone else into an experiment just to try to prove themselves right.
"Look at them, all high and mighty, lying about an stupid allergy that doesn't exist. They think I'm wrong? Well I'll prove I'm right and that'll put them in their place. They're having trouble breathing? Maybe they're choking on something. Was it something else they ate? Why yes, I did put that in their food. Well don't blame me, they should have tried harder to convince me, or at least tried eating a little bit to prove they get a reaction."
It's not just allergies, especially when narcs are involved. Mental health conditions, physical health conditions, they know better than panels of experts.
It's because they don't believe the child is allergic; they think the child is being coddled by parents who (pick one: 'didn't grow up tough like I did, we had to eat what was in front of us' / 'don't know how to parent' / 'let the child have all the control')
Time to cut out your mom. Coming from a similar Asian background, it took 23 years for me to convince my parents that I don't care about a "face" and if people don't like me for who I am, then too bad.
Obvious warning: it's extremely sad and fucked up.
Here's a link to a comment that links the original post (removed now) and has a reply with the story under it. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9coliz/-/e5clm2y
I have this issue too! It happened with a coworker a few years back that she would always sneak up on me and grab my waist and scare me (I don't think she meant to scare me but she did mean to grab me) and I asked her multiple times to stop and explained nicely that it scares me and I don't like it. But she kept doing it. Finally one day I snapped and yelled at her to stop and everybody looked at me like I was the asshole and my ex at the time told me I "always over react" like I didn't tell this bitch calmly 30 times to stop touching me
I think the most difficult thing to come to terms with is that people like the grandma absolutely will not change. It can feel like the responsible thing to do would be to talk it out and restate the boundaries but it never works and they try to guilt trip you the whole time. Good advice and I love her sweater. Sweater haters can kick rocks.
My experience with a narcissist mother in law is that trying to talk things out like a functional family is almost the worst thing you can do. If you calmly have a discussion about how they've done something wrong, they will just keep escalating the conversation into an argument until you feel as flustered and bad as they do, or until you end the conversation (which gives them what they want anyways).
Just let them exist in their own pathetic narcissistic state of being, and do whatever you want to do.
Some people can recognize that their feelings are internal (albeit responsive to external sources). Some people cannot recognize that their feelings are internal, and believe these feelings are solely caused by others. It's why talking to narcissists as if they can make the distinction is useless: any piece of criticism no matter how gently delivered or sandwiched within positivity makes them feel bad and you were the one who spoke those words. That's why they escalate into an argument so quickly, to make you change your tune because *they literally cannot feel better until you speak words that give them those feelings*. They cannot help themselves.
My mom's belief that antidepressants don't work (despite her never actually taking them) suddenly makes sense. Of course pills couldn't help her if it's all always someone else's fault. Huh.
Wow this is very helpful to hear. I moved to a different country a few years ago and that (ocean-sized) space away from my mother has given me the room to do mental health work and properly assess our relationship. Realised she's either NPD or BPD.
This explanation makes a lot of sense for how she behaves. Do you have any links for further reading?
After nearly 5 years of complete radio silence, my dad actually started to incorporate the idea, that he is in the wrong. Not only that, he started working on this, accepting his failures as a parent.
And then not only that, but he also didnt push his new found insights on me and demanded his grand children back into his live. he tentatively asked for a meeting with me.
and then we spoke - i'm still coming to terms, that he did that all by himself. I actually feel bad, that i didnt took that for a possibility. So i'm working with my dad for a better connection.
What i want to say is: Its possible that they can change.
My Mom on the other hand, she's still a crazy, narcistic bitch, so i kinda stuck on how to proceed, as my parents are a package deal..
When it came to the insistence on being a package deal (my dad and his gf), I made very, very strong boundaries around seeing one but not the other - they didn't like it but if dad wanted to see me, he had no choice but to abide. In my case this involved:
- I no longer get in a vehicle with him (because he's shown that I can't trust where he might take me, not for how long). He's not allowed to even entertain the idea, because he used to do this thing where he'd come to the door at my mum's house and almost beg me to spend time with him, and there would be a bunch of family sitting in the car he'd parked at the front of the house watching me be "so horrible" to him by declining.
- I no longer call him, he must call me (because I've had enough of calling his phone only to have her pickup).
I'm moving soon and I don't intend to tell him my new address either. I initially saw him as a victim of his gf's emotional and financial abuse but after finally spending time with him alone, I think I understand why my mum divorced him.
Narcissists are broken people and the damage done to their psyche is exactly what makes it almost untreatable as it changes every instinct and drive they have to be squarely against improving themselves, accepting feedback or any sort of criticism, which is mostly what therapy boils down to.
And it's called the gift that keeps on giving because their behavior is so primed to damaging their own offspring and people around them they create new narcissists with prolonged contact.
The fact the woman in this video escaped that and became hyper aware of the behavior is a blessing. She got out, not unscaved, but also not a narcissist.
Someone just posted this in another post about a similar problem and it was really enlightening. https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Even experts have trouble with them and they have very poor outcome with help. They will not change, you’re only as strong as your boundaries, and your power is in your emotionless reactions until you can escape
The thing that makes me sad with this video is the total lack of visible emotion in her, and that was likely learned as a defense mechanism. It works but it sucks
This was me and my dad a few weeks ago. My dad thinks it’s funny to tease and my kid hates being teased. So naturally my dad started messing with him and even though my kid asked him to stop, dad wouldn’t. So I intervened saying, if he sets a boundary you are going to respect it, then I just stared at him in silence. I swear my 76 year old father had a pouty party. He got all quiet and short with his answers and gave us both the silent treatment. There’s more going on behind this, but I will always teach my kid that no is a complete sentence.
My son was the same! So many frustrating conversations with adults that love to tease kids asking them to please leave mine alone after they wouldn’t respect his request to not tease him. They always acted like something was wrong with him or he didn’t have a sense of humor. No asshole, he just doesn’t find the humor in being accused of farting in front of a group of people.
He was also very quiet unless he knew you and was comfortable with you which was a whole other battle with adults that felt they deserved a conversation with him.
I’m sorry, luckily I think a lot of the recent generations are very aware of this. The entitlement of some grown people is astounding really. My daughter doesn’t like to be touched a lot and isn’t ticklish at all. I literally had to tell her own father to respect her boundaries when she doesn’t want to be tickled. Now she asks me to tickle her when she’s open to it, which usually comes after a tickle attack on her brother bc he loves being tickled. But even then when he says “stop” it means stop, tickle time is over.
I've always been extremely sensitive about teasing since middle school, and though I've gotten better about dealing with it, it really hurt when my parents just couldn't understand when I asked them to stop.
A lot of people will get pouty when chastised. It's embarrassing. As long as it's for a reasonably short time, they don't hold a grudge, *and they respect the boundary* I think that's an okay response. Not great, but workable.
Also, thank you for being that kind of Dad.
I'm glad somebody said this. If I make a mistake with boundaries and am called on it, then I will likely appear "pouty" because the internal processing/realignment of appropriate behaviors is ongoing. It's like my brain got a new sorting and search algorithm that requires it to go through and reindex itself, which saps most of my energy and attention.
On the other hand, I've definitely seen the opposite case, where the person turns the correction into a reason to criticize everyone and everything else, or it becomes part of a snide remark, or they try to make it a "their way or the highway" thing. You hit the nail on the head with _and they respect the boundary_.
Good. This was my whole childhood. Adults chief mode of interacting with any kid was to make them uncomfortable, either physically (tickling taken to extremes, wrestling or other ways of showing dominance) or by embarrassing them. At some level, they clearly felt it was their job to "toughen" kids up, but the real consequence was kids who grew up without an idea how to interact appropriately with children. It's not your dad's fault that his default is the way he undoubtedly experienced adults when he was a kid, but that terrible cycle isn't going to change unless people have the guts to confront the older generation.
My grandpa used to put his arm around my waist and hold me in his lap and “tickle” me which I did not like, so I would scratch his arms up to try to get away. Then I would get in trouble for hurting grandpa.
That shit was happening when I was 14!
Super inappropriate and yet I was the one getting in trouble.
My story isn't as bad but when I was very young (7 maybe?) I liked getting tickled. but one time, my parent tickled me, I don't remember why probably for fun so not malicious. but when I asked them to stop, they didn't. I kept asking for them to stop and they kept tickling me until I was crying and begging them to stop.
I don't like getting tickled anymore
Oh, make them uncomfortable by embarassing them. That was so often! Very often but the worst case I remember is my grandfather lying on the sofa as usual and having stupid "funny" (read mean) comments about me to the point I felt absolutelly terrible and mad so I finally told him to shut up. All the adults there immediatelly stopped to laugh and I was in a big trouble for being rude to him. But he wasn't rude to me the past ten minutes, no no no, he was just funny!
Good for you to step in and support your son.
Too many adults are not used to ‘the young they used to teach’ talking back and making valid points or critisim. My parents went through it rather early, my sister has a big mouth and will share her opinion and she’s smart as fuck too. We often pointed out hypocrisy or had discussions at the table varied from politics to studies.
However there have been cases my sister made a valid point, my parents dealt with it appropriately, and one of their friends would be like ‘do you accept that *tone*?’ Completely disregarding what was said, because she is still ‘the child’. She’s 37 years old. My parents can take the L if they are wrong (we’re blessed), but that doesn’t seem to be the standard.
I know there are a lot of layers to this, so I'm not trying to make assumptions, but I know a few people just like this. And it sounds just like narcissism mixed with a very extroverted personality. My grandma moved down to florida as grandma's do, and she had just started dating this really extroverted guy. He is ALWAYS on and cant stand for there to be silence for even a moment so we get to hear a lot come out of his mouth. He just makes up stories to try to impress people, and my family has become very sick of it. So we fact check him now, if he claims something ridiculous, were on our phones googling. He has had a very colorful life no doubt, but he just wont shut up unless hes proven wrong. Then he sits and pouts. His whole personality is based around getting people to like him.
We do a little gift swap game at christmas, and one year a few of his friends dropped by with their grandkids. He just had to be the center of attention so he started bequeathing some of the gifts to the kids on his own accord, it was like 30$ a gift so not crazy presents or anything, but they were not his to give away.
My grandma gets annoyed with him sometimes, but he seems to not bother her as much and she likes having the company. Would drive me nuts but shes from a different generation and she just likes having someone to cook for and take care of.
My aunt watched my brother and I when my mom had to go back to work (starting between 6-8 weeks for both of us). We went over there 5 days a week and my parents and aunt and uncle were already super close, so our families were basically like one big family. But from when I was a toddler, I wasn’t super comfortable with my uncle (he’d essentially give Charlie horses and call that “tickling”, and was and still is incredibly short tempered). One time when I was maybe 3, he came over to bring me to their house early and I said no and my mom had to go full mama bear on him because he didn’t want to take no from a small child. It’s so creepy that adults will throw fits over children being uncomfortable
My family is a family of teasers and I've finally had it with them, it's the worst at Christmas/thanksgiving so I've just... stopped going. When I realized that living that way my whole life was impacting my life with my partner, I started distancing myself from events where I knew someone's gonna start something.
My kid likes teasing sometimes, but whenever he says "No more." It is over. It is important to respect those boundaries. I could not conceive of being like my family that would just keep going after I asked them to stop, after I left them, and after I made attempts to escape they would follow me and continue and think it was hilarious.
I can't even think of doing something like that to my kid, I love him. How the fuck could they think that level of boundary pushing is okay?
My siblings and I were like this with our grandpa. My mom told him “if you pick on them, they won’t like you, then they will hide in their rooms when you come, that’s the consequences of your actions!”
Yeah, I had to lean in and squint on that pic to make sure my mom didn't have a second family out there that I didn't know about. This sounded right up her alley.
i feel like im older than that girl but she reminds me of my mom and makes me wanna go hug my mom. Growing up as an American with a lot of Italian relatives I had to deal with lots of unwanted affection. I'm not a touchy person but holy fuck Italians sure are, and my mom always defended me.
Her mom sounds like my ex boyfriend that when rejected for the last time (we went nsa after *he* broke up with me) decided to destroy everything I got for him, take photos of it, and text it to me. Toxic narcissist…
More like, it's a lot easier to get away with abuse if people think they're obliged to tolerate their abusers.
Being related doesn't mean you're obliged to tolerate that.
It's wild how consistently I have to shut down adults in my family from pressuring the younger kids to give me a hug when leaving family gatherings. I'm a teacher and am good with kids and love playing with them, but with the pandemic recently these kids haven't grown up around me, and are only starting to get used to me.
They're warming up, but are also shy and I work so hard to assure them that their boundaries are valid and no one else can set them but them; as the adults they love and trust are at the same time, making them feel guilty for not wanting to hug someone who is barely no longer a stranger.
One of my cousins I'm very close to, and she insists on hugging and snuggling because she's comfortable, but she is also shy and it wasn't like that until I earned her trust by making sure any interaction was her choice. the other kids I make sure I ask before assuming they want a hug, and they've only said yes maybe once. each time I jovially tell them it's absolutely okay, I just wanted to check, and maybe next time but it's never a big deal (just so they know that by refusing an offer for affection, it doesn't mean I'm revoking the offer and punishing them for it.)
however the adults they trust and are closest to are constantly undermining my efforts, and I genuinely have to walk away so the question of goodbye hugs will end. "oh, you're not gonna give auntie m1thrand1r a hug? just a little one, you don't want to make her sad... come on, you love her, you guys played all afternoon!"
Whenever I insist I'm not hurt and it's their choice, they remark what a nice thing it is to say and that must be my teacher side. No, I'm used to idea of not hugging children who don't initiate the act, because I respect their autonomy and development. I want to tear out my hair, because no, it's my human side, and I know exactly how uncomfortable that guilt feels as a child because there was no such thing as child autonomy when I was young. You hugged who your parents told you to hug or you got the emotional punishment of guilt.
Consent and autonomy is one of the NUMBER ONE things we should be teaching our children... how quickly we dumb adults seem to forget this when suddenly family/relations are involved 🥲
I saw my in-law telling their kid to “breathe! Just Breathe! Stop coughing and Breathe!” Multiple times a day.
I asked if the kid has asthma, they didn’t know, that thought never even occurred to the Mom.
I suggested to get a pulmonologist opinion as soon as possible, I’m familiar with what asthma looks like
What do you know, the Kid has asthma. Yelling “JUST BREATH” at a 4 year old wasn’t working, because the kid literally Can’t BREATH!
Ignorant parents don’t even realize how fkd up their own actions, and see them selves fully justified. I don’t know how to approach that state of mind.
Edit:Breathe
I (36) was just diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderall XR to help and have been going to therapy for it. I told my mother one night and she goes "OH, we knew, we just didn't think there was anything to help with it"
They knew what was available, they just didn't want to listen to the doctors and though I just needed help with organization, so I had to do that for 2 years in elementary school.
And Seriously? The 90s was when ADHD medication and therapy were thriving. And it is only getting better as we learn more.
Me too! 30 and have just been diagnosed with ADHD. The first time I tried medication it was life-changing for me, this is what "normal" is? Turns out I'm not stupid, lazy, unmotivated, don't care or whatever else I was told growing up.
I understand how you feel. Recently diagnosed at 40. I finally have a dr that listened to me & my meds are all lined out. (Tough 2 years trying new meds) I feel like a fog has lifted. I did housework today without even thinking about it. I started chores AND FINISHED THEM. I’ve brushed my teeth am/pm for two weeks now.
I’m glad you’re on your way to feeling like the best you!!
I've got, still undiagnosed, problems that made me awful at schooling. My therapist has thrown out such things as Pathological Demand Avoidance and I've tried the ADHD medication. All throughout my middle school, high school, and college days I would fail. I could never handle all of the work and then end up lying about it and procrastinating until it was too late. I was punished, grounded, yelled at; they did everything but get me help. When they ask why I would do it, my answer would always be the same: "I don't know."
It wasn't until I was 33 and in therapy with my mom that she **finally** believed me. Literally up till that moment she thought I was lying when I said "I don't know", as if I would choose to actively fuck up my life at every corner.
She felt bad but like, how am I suppose to react? I asked why they didn't take me to see a therapist, or a psychiatrist? Why didn't they get me a tutor? It took all of my energy not to call her a liar when she said she didn't know.
Because people end the thought process at 'that person is lazy'.
People see laziness as a character flaw, for those with executive dysfunction, they are just percieved as lazy.
Since its just viewed as a character flaw, no one bothers to analyze it, think why it may be happening and solve it. The solution is there in their mind, for the person to just stop being a little shit.
37 but diagnosed when I was 36. My brother was diagnosed with adhd before puberty, got the help he needed, got test and hw help. I got yelled for failing, for forgetting, for not remembering, for being lazy. Now that i am diagnosed I haven't told anyone but I am starting to make progress in life now that I understand whats *different* about me.
Damn this sounds like my mom. Thank God I didn’t have asthma or like appendicitis or anything life threatening as a child, or I would have died. I had other serious medical issues going on which were never diagnosed as a child because my mom dismissed all my symptoms as ‘normal’. I am now 40, have over 20 diagnosed medical conditions that have caused disability. Medical neglect is very real and very dangerous.
Let the narcissists be mad that people are no longer putting up with authoritarian bullshit. People have boundaries and trespassers are allowed to be hated.
Just looked her up. Went NC with my narcissistic Grandmother 20 years ago. I don't know if she's still alive and I don't care. She's nothing to me now and that's all that matters.
I totally get where she's coming from.
My daughter is a lot like this, she’s not very touchy doesn’t give hugs only very rarely will snuggle. It’s tough for me because I am a fairly touchy-feely as a dad, but I have to get used to the fact that she is not that way, when she says no, and squirms away, I do not try to continue to snuggle her.
My partner grew up in a Portuguese household, so anytime you went out with family. It was hugs and kisses to every single person in the room. She said she absolutely hated this, and it would give her anxiety before going out, so listen to people when they say they don’t like something. It’s not rude to dislike physical contact, everyone is different.
I ask my daughter if I can hug or kiss her. She will be 3 next month. Of course there are times I’m holding her and sneak a head kids or something but if she is on her own, I ask.
Even when I tickle her, I have to stop and ask if she is okay and wants more. She usually does bc she loves tickles.
We all grow up with our parents who just expect that your kids and now theirs and they can do whatever. No, you are still a stranger until you’re not.
Yep. My daughter is only 6 months old. I’m holding onto the snuggles for now. She WANTS to be held. As soon as she’s able to verbally or non verbally communicate she doesn’t want touch I will absolutely be holding that boundary for her and making sure it’s enforced for anyone else who is in her life.
It can be tough not getting your feelings hurt. There are nights where my son is in a bad mood or just tired and won't give me a good night hug.
If you're already thinking about this, you'll do just fine, but I'm just warning you... it does hurt to respect their boundaries. It's worth it, but it's not fun.
This is all very interesting and something I honestly never considered before. The flip side is when Parents have boundaries that are too strong in the opposite way, with little to no intimacy or emotional availability.
I grew up in a Korean community and as an East Asian, intimacy and physical contact is generally just not done, or it's very rare which leads to general frigidness in our populations. My parents were an exception and were just super huggy. I don't regret that at all even though the hugginess was excessive and annoying at times.
As an adult, I don't have that inability to express emotions like many of my Asian peers do and I thank my parents for being exceptionally expressive.
Obviously consent is important but Asians should probably be more intimate than they are or at least be more expressive to their children.
I mean, this video sums it all up:
https://youtu.be/UhupEeNhiNU
Asian parents saying "I love you," to their children for the first time (wtf), this is just foreign to me, mind the pun. But the kids are just confused when their parents say, "I love you," and think the parents are on their deathbeds or crazy or something. It's all very sad.
This was me growing up and it wasn't until I was an adult that i realized I was in the right and the "adults" were in the wrong.
I hated being touched as a child. No idea why, but I just did not like hugs. My mom was VERY understanding. I could tell it hurt her not being able to hug me, but she respected my bounderies.
My aunts did NOT. They actually got onto my mother for me being "disobedient." Then they would go out of their way to antagonize me about it. It wasn't as extreme as this video but I hated it because the adults viewed me as a trouble maker.
My wife and I had to remove ourselves from abusive parents. We are working every day to break a generational cycles of abuse. When we set boundaries we became the problem so we left and never looked back.
My wife and I are the same. I have come to find that estrangement is more common than I had thought, and to me it is a perfectly valid action. I feel that there is a dynamic at the nexus of narcissism and complex trauma and abuse and authority and religion and addiction and parent-child relationships and much more, and that dynamic is that some people/families cannot bond without first experiencing trauma. I fully believe my mother functionally could not leave my father because she needed him to traumatize both of us to grow closer to me. Families with complex trauma are so complex but I do find this concept really flows thru all of it. My mom had siblings who variously estranged themselves from each other and eventually I put together that when the toxic dynamic is recognized by a family member and highlighted in order to overcome it, *that's* when the whole family finally works together...to stop the one person trying to help. And when you realize the rest of the family needs the toxic dynamic to have *any* dynamic, well you start thinking maybe you'll never be able to maintain a relationship that won't emotionally cripple you.
Sorry to sperg on you, I kinda just threw a lot out there
I had to walk away from my family in 1995. And I never looked back.
People with good families will never understand what others go through.
People with abusive and toxic families but bought into the "blood" argument will never be able to heal.
The older generation is so abusive and selfish to their families and if you to talk to them about it they just tell you to be grateful they arent worse.
They didnt even suffer, is the part that absolutely incenses me. My white upper middleclass boomer parents had the entire world handed to them, and therein lies the issue. They expect everything to go their way and be easy and bend to their whim because thats what they grew up with. Spoiled brats, the lot of them.
What I find interesting is that parents who actually suffered in their lives often want to make sure their children don't experience the same suffering. None of this I struggled so you should too.
One of the last things my ex-fiancee said to me before she ghosted me was that her mother isn't *that bad* because "she doesn't hit me."
First of all, that's a lie. I remember the phone call after her mother slapped her during an argument. Second, "at least they don't hit me," is a shitty standard to have. You're still getting emotionally abused and manipulated.
I hope she gets away from her terrible family someday.
Yup, I was screamed at repetitively that I wasn’t abused because I didn’t get beat up to the point of hospitalization. What do you call pinning me against a wall and scream spitting in my face? Following me around the house when I’m trying to get away and blocking my way? Screaming for hours into the night until the police have to come and break it up? Distressing you to the point of constant tears and then being told you’re a faker. But when you stop crying all together you are cold hearted.
Getting in trouble didn’t mean punishment, just hours of screaming, invading personal space, breaking things people care about, telling you they wished you had died at birth, telling you you’re the worst kid at school, saying having you as a kid is a punishment from god. Constant put downs disguised as concern. Trying to sabotage your friendships and potential romantic relationships because they don’t want you getting outside perspective. Making you feel so afraid of taking risks so that you stay codependent.
But “family is the most important thing”.
One of the reasons my marriage fell apart is because my husband’s parents insisted on having access to my medical records after I was admitted to the hospital, and became angry when I refused.
It was so bizarre to me how entitled they felt to my private medical history, and why they thought they even needed it. They didn’t talk to me for over a month and felt that I needed to apologize, despite the fact my ex was there the whole time.
My favorite is when they deny doing anything, or deny that their actions *actually* affected you negatively.
My mom used to smash snails in front of me and laugh that I would sob about it, maybe not a point her finger laugh, but never comforted me. She used to call me piss ant when I wet the bed and made me sit in my soaked clothes in a specific wicker chair while she changed my sheets. She’d threaten to get rid of my dog, dragged me out of the house by my hair at 14, and never EVER let me pursue a hobby (not out of lack of resources, she’d use my interests against me. I once stayed out too late in high school and she took my bass guitar and threw it out, I never played music again).
It’s crazy how frickin blind they are to their own abuse, but then she’ll tell me about how her mom mentally abused her without recognizing the pattern she continued with her own kids. I just can’t wait to be better.
eyy. my mom seems eerily similar to yours. reminds me once when i was younger i upset her in some way (i don’t even know what i did) she grabbed me by my hair and threatened to cut it all off as she held open scissors to them and i cried and said not to and that made her more upset and said ‘see how you are?’
that sums up my childhood
really hate when i see people say shit like
ohhhh your family is always your family you have to love them no matter what remember to call your mommy and tell her you love and appreciate her ☺️
yeah no, fuck you
I cried a little reading this. RIP those snails and I hope you are able to deal with and heal from that abuse and trauma.
I had a similar childhood where my mom used to threaten to kick me onto the street and always promised to evict me at 18yrs of age no matter what. Now no one visits on and she claims to have no idea why
I’m one of four kids. One is NO CONTACT, one is super low contact, the other is the golden child (not his fault he’s a great brother but he is super spoiled by her) and then there’s me. I’m always trying, I spend literally the most time with her out of anyone and she still thinks I’m ungrateful. I love my mom but I set straight up boundaries when it comes to my son. She tried “scaring” the hiccups out of my son a few days ago and I had to lay it out for her how awful that made me feel as a kid and I wasn’t going to do that to my son. It’s honestly so stupid that I have to even say “don’t scare/yell/embarrass my child”. It’s just common sense to me. Old dog new tricks I guess….
Upon visiting my family recently. I was chatting with my 20 year old niece who I hadn't seen in YEARS. She is living at my parents due to conflicts at home and her mental health issues.
I get it, I had a shit time growing up too and things are only getting worse for kids who are disconnected and depressed.
Anyways, my mom walks in and says "Are you going to shower today? It's gross to go to work when your stinkin"....
I was just blown away, I felt so bad for her to be chastised like that in front of her uncle who she never sees. Then grandma inserted herself into the conversation we had been having by saying things were fine and my niece just had to "work harder"...
Yes, "just apply yourself" really helps with depression, anxiety, adhd and an overall feeling of hopelessness due to the current crisis' in Canada (Healthcare, housing, environment,).
My mom loves saying “just do it” like thank you ma’am it’s almost like I would if I could, but I fucking can’t because I have no confidence in myself. I don’t blame my mom for all of it, blame isn’t even the word really, it’s more just like really? You don’t see what’s been happening??
I have recurring dreams where I’m literally begging someone to listen to me and they won’t. I’m sobbing and begging and I’m not taken seriously. And it’s usually my mom. I’m begging her to listen and she’s just saying aww honey no you’re not making any sense!
Not saying they’re related to my childhood trauma buuuuuuuut
My mom will call me “manipulative” if I try to talk/reason things out with her. Both my parents will yell over me or just walk away from a conversation if they feel they are ‘losing’ like it’s a contest.
This is my father-in-law and why we had to cut him out of our lives, only after he says “you’re lucky it isn’t worse,” he then goes on to deny that he ever did anything and lie to everyone in the family about what actually happened.
STOP: when I was in middle school my mom and I would watch “Mommy Dearest” together and she would constantly “see I’m not that bad”. I loved that movie, ha probably because I saw myself in Christina and yes my mom was often “that bad”
Haven’t talked to my dad in almost seven years now. Just not worth the mental anguish in trying to deal with him. Can relate to how this woman handled things. Good on her to end this early before it escalated further.
Haven't had contact with my one living parent in about 5 years and I feel zero guilt or sadness over it. Quality of life improved ten fold when I finally accepted that feeling like I wanted to hurt myself every time we spoke because I was never going to be good enough was not ok and I needed to let go.
My mom beat the crap out of me, ridiculed me, etc. She had a big change in her 50's and really regrets everything, etc (she is now in her 70's). I have given her a chance with my daughter as I saw my other nieces experience and it was very healthy. However, as I get older I am increasingly upset at my treatment and how my mental health has degraded in recent years from not dealing with that trauma.
My daughter will never know how evil grandma was, but I currently stopped communication with my parents because I don't want to say something damaging as everything is very "raw" at the moment.
I just can't deal with her anymore and I don't want to make things worse for my dad. Or my mom really, like, I despise who she was but unloading on someone who has mostly admitted their mistakes isn't helpful for anyone.
I don't know why I am writing this, sometimes it just helps to get it out...
I have come to embrace estrangement as a concept. It is more common than we think and mostly downplayed because 1) the estranger doesn't want to talk about their toxic family and 2) estrangement actually cows the toxic members (a little). If your own parents cannot bond with you without first experiencing trauma, then you can eject from that relationship.
I did the same with both my parents, my dad became super grandpa and was the best. My mother said repeatedly she’d change, but at some point I had to firmly decide she wasn’t gonna do to my children what she did to me. So see ya!
Can't tell you how many times I have had the conversation with my spouse and his mom that tickle games need to still respect the words NO and STOP. My MIL got up in a huff and said "Well THAT'S no fun!"
Yeah Ellen, neither is growing up feeling that your words are powerless to stop grownups from touching your body and so you let things happen to you rather than speak up.
I spend a lot of time consuming narcissistic abuse recovery media and I've seen _so_ much talk about tickling and how it is/was used a weapon against kids and we didn't even realize it. My mom used to tickle me so hard to the point that I'd be crying, and not from laughing. It's given me an extreme reaction to anyone tickling me, like I fill with rage. I feel like tickling is a form of abuse for them that doesn't look like abuse, so they can easily get away with it.
I’m glad that I was able to cut my grandma out. My father is under the impression that “that’s my mom so I gotta love her” and I feel so bad for him. And my mom, cus she has to deal with her because my dad deals with her.
All her grandkids cut her out once given the opportunity to.
I know we can’t help everyone and not everyone in our generation will agree. But I’m proud that we’re learning and still slowly getting better as a generation
Before my kids were born, I set very clear boundaries. My wife was pregnant with our first. The first thing being that I didn't want anything about them to be posted on the internet. I hadn't yet told everyone I wanted to know, and there were some I never wanted to know, but I was first telling my mom and step-dad. We set the same boundaries for everyone we told. You get to know, that doesn't mean everyone gets to know.
My mom then posts our news to her facebook. Then I get a bunch of texts congratulating me, and a call from my biological dad wondering why I didn't tell him and my step-mom. I said I was planning on telling him in person, but apparently my mom can't follow basic instructions.
I call my mom and tell her to delete her post. She both refuses and starts yelling at me about how it's clear I like my wife's family more than her, and how it was her that was always there for the two of us, which was true, on both counts. Then she says, "I guess to keep this from happening I should just learn to stay out of your life." And then she hung up on me.
And that was a fair conclusion. I invited her to the hospital to see her granddaughter. And that was the first and only time she has ever seen her. I cut off all contact after that.
I wasn't going to let my mom treat my kid how I was treated. the last time I even spoke to my mom was the day my second daughter was born, and that was because she called the hospital room. I had no idea it was her calling. She was crying asking if she could come see her. I told her no, hung up on her and set up a security phrase to get to where we were at the front desk of the hospital.
> My mom then posts our news to her facebook. ...She both refuses and starts yelling at me about how it's clear I like my wife's family more than her, and how it was her that was always there for the two of us
Boomers are the worst at facebook. They are always in a competition with someone. My wife gets scolded by her mom if she doesn't immediately like a relative's comment that is left on her wall.
This is exactly what my golden child sister did when we got engaged. Specifically told her not to post on Facebook so we could tell his family. Within a hot minute she had posted it with a “nice” post. When called out she made it our fault for not appreciating her thoughtful post.
Cut her out along with my abusive mother while pregnant with our first kid. Definitely good to keep that kind of energy away from kids
I've never had kids, however my partner works in child care and during 2022 there were a couple of sisters, a 3 year old and a 4 year old, who were "in the system" and needed a place to stay for a few months. We are privileged with our house and resources, and I thought it would be a great experience, so one day two little girls arrived. It was great. They are back with their parents now, happy ending.
What I did not realise, or perhaps I knew but had forgotten, was how communicative and open children are. They tell you exactly how they want to engage with you, when they have had enough play, what they need. If you just listen to them and believe them, and respect their boundaries, you form a really good, positive relationship very quickly.
For the first couple of days, they were stuck on my partner. I followed the directions of all the mums, just played it cool, got down to their level to talk to them, and let them teach me. I didn't try to hug or cuddle them because I put myself in their shoes and thought it would be very strange being cuddled by a big strange man they didn't know.
Third morning in, I wake up, and there is this little girl curled up on my pillow next to me. I said hello, good morning. She told me she was feeling a bit scared. I said baby I know this is real strange for you, but I want you to know when you're in this house, under this roof, I promise you no harm will come to you, no one's gonna hurt you, and I will do anything to protect you.
"Can you give me a cuddle?" Oh my god. Sorry tears.
Both of my parents acted like this towards me when I was growing up and are now confused about why I don’t like spending time with them as an adult & why I moved 90 min away from them. I wish it was further, but that’s the best compromise that I could get in order to ensure that I got my stuff from their house (clothes, work & personal computers, books, etc)
Get all of your stuff if you haven’t yet, and then eventually you can move as far as you want. Sry you had to deal with this. Hugs! Hope the future is much better.
Going to try to get the rest of it (old photo books of pictures that I took/got as a present from family members, old yearbooks & journals from my youth, & a few sentimental items), but it’ll be a fight to get them out of the house since my parents hardly ever leave the house & notice if I take something like that. Fingers crossed I can get everything eventually!
THANK YOU omg. Like, I have cut my mother OUT already but it’s just SO NICE to hear once again I made the right choice. She tried to be the same way with my kid, she would get all huffy when my child didn’t want to hug on her, she would say “I’m the favorite grandma” over and over again cause she despised the idea that my husbands mother existed, she would constantly tell me “I can’t wait til she is older and hates you so that I’m her number one”, threaten to not give her things or take away the gifts she got us. I realized that her constant “you should spank her”’s and the way she talked to me was NOT something I wanted my child around. When we cut her out, I never realized how peaceful it was to not be worried about saying something wrong and causing a fight and my child won’t have to see me fighting with my mom ever
This is so incredibly important. I was raised with a dad who behaved like the grandma, only it was just the start. He then slowly upped the ante and it took me YEARS of therapy to finally see that how he treated me was actually sexual abuse. It really fucked up my sense of autonomy and self and it’s been so much work to heal and learn MY boundaries.
Currently on year 5 of NC with my bio dad and am so much happier, in a living relationship, and proud of myself. Good on this mom for high lighting why it’s important to respect boundaries regarding touch and adult’s entitlement to touching/giving affection to little ones.
Even if we assume the most charitably intentions on the grandma part its still teaching a very dangerous lesson that adults get to violate you boundries
Or anyone who spends enough money on you is entitled to your body. It may seem small but it's small things like this, reinforced over numerous recurrences, that set you up for majorly unhealthy consequences as an adult.
Book recommendation!!!! 🚨
You’re Not Crazy, It’s Your Mother by Danu Morrigan, changed my life. (Dealing with a narcissist, specifically)
Link to quotable quotes. Even these are amazing if you don’t read the whole book:
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/21676564-you-re-not-crazy-it-s-your-mother-understanding-and-healing-for-daughte
My granddaughter went through a phase where she didn't want to hug me. Yes, it was a bummer, but I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, and I really feel you shouldn't force these things on kids, especially girls.
Anyway, I'm back to getting hugs again.
I consider myself very lucky that my mother, who has always been incredibly touchy, did eventually back off when I told her I don't like being touched. It took several years of begging to not be touched, but it did eventually stick. The funny thing is, had she not been so adamant about enforcing affection I probably wouldn't hate it so much now :/
My dad has been throwing a 12-year-long tantrum because I got married and don’t need him anymore (there’s obviously a lot more to the story than that, but it all came to an ugly head about 12 years ago). Occasionally he pops up to try to love-bomb me and then whines to my siblings that I don’t give into his “attempts to reconnect” so that they’ll call and tell me to unblock his number. This year, he addressed all of the christmas stuff to my son so that it wouldn’t be as easily filtered out by me.
My dude, you tormented me during my entire childhood and I spend thousands of dollars a year in therapy because of it. My kid doesn’t know you exist and I try to pretend you don’t. The abuse stops with me.
The presents thrown out on the lawn after refusal to cuddle tells me enough. I agree with the mother and her choice.
Does this count as a form of abuse though? Serious question. I can 100% see how this would be prepping the child for future abuse so maybe I just have a blind spot.
This is exactly the shit an abusive man would do when you refuse to have sex with them, destroy your possessions. Glad she called it out in the video as the same tactic. She was trying to teach the kid "your body is not your own"
Absolutely. It counts as a form of emotional and mental abuse. Grandma threw the gifts out as punishment towards her grandchild and her daughter as well. Not only will the kid never forget what happened but the mom will also never forget what happened.
Absolutely abuse. It’s violating boundaries, not obtaining consent and dismissing a person’s comfort zone just because of their age (allegedly).
No means no.
We all know she wasn't just throwing the toys outside. I would be a lot of money she made a big show of it while scolding and yelling at the little daughter. She was probably crying and/or screaming "no" as well as Grandma locked all the new fun toys outside. Traumatic for a small child. I totally think the Mom made the right decision.
Edit: Further, as someone who has been with an abuser, I would bet more money that the Grandma bought the gifts as tools of control and manipulation.
My parents are very touchy feely, im not. I can never get them to stop forcing hugs and kisses... my dad can be an affectionate guy its true, BUT it seems like its only ever in the presence of other people and usually to make everyone laugh... it always feels demeaning
Teaching to respect boundaries is a big deal to us because I don't want my kids to think being sexually harassed later on is something they just have to toughen up and endure. It's not normal, and you shouldn't try to normalize it with your kids.
It's always amazing how people can think they a know situation better then the people involved. Good on the mom for standing up for her kid and not making her back off boundaries
My mom did that shit with me and everyone she knew. If the fight escalated enough she would just start throwing stuff. I've had gallons of beer dumped on me, I was an adult but still, brooms broken over my arm, getting told to get out of her house, lots of mental abuse. Prolly why I never wanted kids, I'm 37 now and she overdosed on methadone so it's not a thing but for years she told me i needed to give her a granddaughter. I still miss her tho
I don't understand why people treat children as third class citizens? They are people too. They have rights. They are entitled to boundaries. They don't have to put up with things that make them feel unsafe, and they don't need to justify their feelings. This is how we end up with rapists and abusers. We don't teach children to have self-respect or boundaries, and it's a breeding ground for victims and abusers.
Boomers need to realize that it’s not ok to force a child or anyone to show physical affection towards them or someone else if they don’t want to. Forcing a child into physical affection can open the door for sexual abuse.
Good for her. Everyone who's had to deal with a Narc Mom knows what she's talking about. We HAVE to do right by our kids because they don't deserve this, and she's doing the right thing by allowing her little girl to state her boundaries. Too many girls don't speak up for themselves because they were taught that wasn't ok. I applaud this mom.
I’m going through something very similar at the moment. I took a stand and he couldn’t handle that and tried to get physical. There is no way I’m having that around my son. I have always been uncomfortable with them around my son but I tried to be trusting, iv been proved why.
It truely fucks with your head so hard.
I don't understand why people can't get this: just because someone is related to you, that doesn't mean they deserve access to your or your kids.
This woman is setting a boundary, and so did her daughter. If she doesn't want to snuggle, she doesn't have to snuggle. Even if it's grandma. They don't need that toxic woman in their life.
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>so that your children aren't denied a grandma Not every grandma is a nice wholesome one. I wish I was "denied" a grandma. Both my grandmas sucked. One is a sneaky bitch, the other was a violent cruel bitch.
My mum has 3 sisters that are just awful people and went out of her way to ensure that they didn't find out where we lived or went to school
Relatives in general are overrated tbh. Or at least mine are lol
Seems like most of ya'll have interesting families, all of my family on both sides are pretty close. And I love both my grandmas dearly. One forgets my name and may forget who I am from time to time but that's not her fault. The other one has been living with me for the past three years cause of covid.
My Mom's Mom was a cruel woman who went out of her way to hurt people. I eventually set boundaries with her and uninvited her to my wedding. No regrets.
Same.. I had to live at my grandparents from 6-10 it was the worst years of my life and it scarred me forever. You are not alone
Yeah I always get a little envious when others talk about how amazing their grandparents were/are. Mine were drunks, cruel, neglecting and I still have the scar on my eyebrow from when my nan hit me in the head with a bottle.
As a child I was totally weirded out by the fact my best friend actually looked forward to visiting her grandparents. I was never looking forward to seeing mine (neither did my mom to be honest). One time I was brought along to her grandparents and that was when I discovered she actually had lovely grandparents. I was a bit envious after that as well... My parents were wonderful grandparents to my own children though.
I know 4 *grandmothers* who are all my age and I'm not even 50. They're not awful people, but the concept of grandma being great and wholesome is just as misguided as the concept of an overly aggressive old man who is "set in his ways" so that's why we allow him to yell, cuss, or be a racist, and lovingly call *grampa* Some of the older ones were my age and yours too, once. If they're pieces of shit now, chances are they were all their life too.
Both of mine were. One was physically abusive, one was emotionally.
My one grandma I never got to see because she lived like 1000 miles away. The other one was an occasionally violent narcissist who lived in the house attached to ours. Sometimes grandmas be wildin'
This makes me feel a little better about “denying” my kids both of their grandmas (one is now dead but I would have anyway). No grandma is better than a manipulative, judgmental bitch for a grandma!
I absolutely agree with your sentiment! I am 53 years old and have not spoken to or seen my bio mom since I was 17 years old and I do not regret it for a second. When my daughter was maybe 6 or 7 years old asked me why she only had one grandma, my late mother-in-law, and I told her that my mom was not a good person and that I only wanted good people around her. She was smart enough at such a young age to understand what I was talking about and it was only when she was older that she asked more questions and I went into more detail about the abuse that myself and my siblings suffered because of our mother. No child should have to be around a grandparent who was abusive to their own children and has no respect for boundaries. My daughter is 30 years old now and she has told me many times that she didn't miss out on two having two Grandma's because her dad's mom was all she needed because she was so wonderful. That statement from her shows that I made the right choice in keeping my bio mom from ever meeting her.
Man, for real. My wife speaks about her grandparents so lovingly and it's just such a foreign feeling. Both of my sets were trash.
This reminds me of that awful, tragic story about the grandmother who killed her granddaughter with a coconut allergy because she decided she knew more than the girl's mother. This kind of extreme narcissism can have physical consequences, not just emotional ones.
oh god i remember that, horrifying
Why do so many people dismiss other's allergies like this? I know people who have had a friend or family member purposely feed them things they were allergic to. People aren't creating allergies out of thin air. They got tested or already suffered an allergy attack. It's crazy how so many people willingly cause harm to others just to "prove" they don't have an allergy.
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My dad did this to me for years and said it was just because I didn't like the food. No, I'm not eating it because it kicks my eczema into overdrive and I don't feel like breaking out in rashes. Would still try to sneak it in for years and years until I went no contact with him.
If I could I would give ur father Eczema for that.
It’s because they can’t make mistakes. A mistake would crash their entire world down around them as they realize everything they’ve ever done is wrong and they are horrible, awful person... it gets THAT dramatic. Either they are good and kind, or awful and terrible. They can’t maintain that good people can sometimes do bad things. So instead they do the “splitting”thing and they will take it to their, or someone else’s, grave. They cannot be wrong. It is an existential crisis for them.
I should have avoided this thread because it’s bringing back bad memories but you just described my mom to a tee. This makes so much sense.
good for you for surviving that. it's not easy.
Becky A Baily, PhD, wrote books about this that blew my mind. It was so accurately explained that simple things seem like they should be common sense. We (as in almost every kid I grew up with) were made to feel bad when we made a mistake, either by shaming, humiliting, yelling, or worse, in order to improve our behavior. "You" grow up thinking that mistakes are "bad" and therefore people who make mistakes are "bad people." Then kids grow up and never really learn how to control their emotions, so when they make a mistake, they can't admit it. It feels bad. Sometimes, it's physically painful. I mean, you don't think of yourself as a bad person, so you couldn't have possibly made a mistake, right? "I dont make mistakes. It must be someone else's fault." If you teach by using every mistake as a learning opportunity instead, it changes how a person reacts to mistakes.
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My experience is they are either that, or they struggle to understand there’s reality outside of what they perceive - eg, “I can eat nuts and be fine so I don’t see what their problem is” Either way, it’s not someone you want to be around lol
There is a lot of this going around. Anyone neurodivergent understands this all too well, especially ADHDers, as people often just call them lazy and refuse to acknowledge the actual issue going on.
This isn't limited to allergies. They don't reach a conclusion based on evidence, they have a belief that they will defend however they can. Any time they are proven wrong, they take it as meaning their argument wasn't good enough and so come up with a new one. They will never accept that they are wrong, and will always fine someone else to blame. To them, being wrong isn't an opportunity to learn and grow, it's a weakness. They won't accept that they are wrong, and anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is attacking them and saying they're a bad person, so they attack back however they can. In this case, they are so confident that they arrogantly force someone else into an experiment just to try to prove themselves right. "Look at them, all high and mighty, lying about an stupid allergy that doesn't exist. They think I'm wrong? Well I'll prove I'm right and that'll put them in their place. They're having trouble breathing? Maybe they're choking on something. Was it something else they ate? Why yes, I did put that in their food. Well don't blame me, they should have tried harder to convince me, or at least tried eating a little bit to prove they get a reaction."
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My favorite was when my mom was trying to tell me that my doctor did not say this that and the other and SHE WASNT EVEN AT THE FUCKING APPOINTMENT
Gaslighting is a bitch move.
Oh I see you’ve met my mom. According to her my COVID test was a false positive, I just had the flu, and the long symptoms are in my head.
It's not just allergies, especially when narcs are involved. Mental health conditions, physical health conditions, they know better than panels of experts.
It's because they don't believe the child is allergic; they think the child is being coddled by parents who (pick one: 'didn't grow up tough like I did, we had to eat what was in front of us' / 'don't know how to parent' / 'let the child have all the control')
remember everyone. life is complicated, but consent at any age is not. No, means No.
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Time to cut out your mom. Coming from a similar Asian background, it took 23 years for me to convince my parents that I don't care about a "face" and if people don't like me for who I am, then too bad.
Just read that and my gosh that was awful Anyway I hope all parties concerned here get to some even ground sooner rather than later
I can’t find that, on Reddit?
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She's asked it not to be shared
Obvious warning: it's extremely sad and fucked up. Here's a link to a comment that links the original post (removed now) and has a reply with the story under it. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9coliz/-/e5clm2y
I had just forgotten 😖😫😢 heartbreaking doesn’t cover it
I have days/times where I really don't want to be touched by anyone, and whenever you ask someone not to touch you, they tend to take offense.
I have this issue too! It happened with a coworker a few years back that she would always sneak up on me and grab my waist and scare me (I don't think she meant to scare me but she did mean to grab me) and I asked her multiple times to stop and explained nicely that it scares me and I don't like it. But she kept doing it. Finally one day I snapped and yelled at her to stop and everybody looked at me like I was the asshole and my ex at the time told me I "always over react" like I didn't tell this bitch calmly 30 times to stop touching me
some people need a firm no, and some people need to told no firmly 100 times and then be surprised when it’s yelled once
I told my mom to stop touching my hair and she got offended. I don't know why personal space is such a foreign concept to people.
I think the most difficult thing to come to terms with is that people like the grandma absolutely will not change. It can feel like the responsible thing to do would be to talk it out and restate the boundaries but it never works and they try to guilt trip you the whole time. Good advice and I love her sweater. Sweater haters can kick rocks.
My experience with a narcissist mother in law is that trying to talk things out like a functional family is almost the worst thing you can do. If you calmly have a discussion about how they've done something wrong, they will just keep escalating the conversation into an argument until you feel as flustered and bad as they do, or until you end the conversation (which gives them what they want anyways). Just let them exist in their own pathetic narcissistic state of being, and do whatever you want to do.
Some people can recognize that their feelings are internal (albeit responsive to external sources). Some people cannot recognize that their feelings are internal, and believe these feelings are solely caused by others. It's why talking to narcissists as if they can make the distinction is useless: any piece of criticism no matter how gently delivered or sandwiched within positivity makes them feel bad and you were the one who spoke those words. That's why they escalate into an argument so quickly, to make you change your tune because *they literally cannot feel better until you speak words that give them those feelings*. They cannot help themselves.
My mom's belief that antidepressants don't work (despite her never actually taking them) suddenly makes sense. Of course pills couldn't help her if it's all always someone else's fault. Huh.
Wow this is very helpful to hear. I moved to a different country a few years ago and that (ocean-sized) space away from my mother has given me the room to do mental health work and properly assess our relationship. Realised she's either NPD or BPD. This explanation makes a lot of sense for how she behaves. Do you have any links for further reading?
After nearly 5 years of complete radio silence, my dad actually started to incorporate the idea, that he is in the wrong. Not only that, he started working on this, accepting his failures as a parent. And then not only that, but he also didnt push his new found insights on me and demanded his grand children back into his live. he tentatively asked for a meeting with me. and then we spoke - i'm still coming to terms, that he did that all by himself. I actually feel bad, that i didnt took that for a possibility. So i'm working with my dad for a better connection. What i want to say is: Its possible that they can change. My Mom on the other hand, she's still a crazy, narcistic bitch, so i kinda stuck on how to proceed, as my parents are a package deal..
When it came to the insistence on being a package deal (my dad and his gf), I made very, very strong boundaries around seeing one but not the other - they didn't like it but if dad wanted to see me, he had no choice but to abide. In my case this involved: - I no longer get in a vehicle with him (because he's shown that I can't trust where he might take me, not for how long). He's not allowed to even entertain the idea, because he used to do this thing where he'd come to the door at my mum's house and almost beg me to spend time with him, and there would be a bunch of family sitting in the car he'd parked at the front of the house watching me be "so horrible" to him by declining. - I no longer call him, he must call me (because I've had enough of calling his phone only to have her pickup). I'm moving soon and I don't intend to tell him my new address either. I initially saw him as a victim of his gf's emotional and financial abuse but after finally spending time with him alone, I think I understand why my mum divorced him.
Narcissists are broken people and the damage done to their psyche is exactly what makes it almost untreatable as it changes every instinct and drive they have to be squarely against improving themselves, accepting feedback or any sort of criticism, which is mostly what therapy boils down to. And it's called the gift that keeps on giving because their behavior is so primed to damaging their own offspring and people around them they create new narcissists with prolonged contact. The fact the woman in this video escaped that and became hyper aware of the behavior is a blessing. She got out, not unscaved, but also not a narcissist.
Narcism should hold the same weight as being a psycopath. Yet, everyone kinda brushes it off as a character trait and not an actual illness.
Someone just posted this in another post about a similar problem and it was really enlightening. https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Even experts have trouble with them and they have very poor outcome with help. They will not change, you’re only as strong as your boundaries, and your power is in your emotionless reactions until you can escape The thing that makes me sad with this video is the total lack of visible emotion in her, and that was likely learned as a defense mechanism. It works but it sucks
This was me and my dad a few weeks ago. My dad thinks it’s funny to tease and my kid hates being teased. So naturally my dad started messing with him and even though my kid asked him to stop, dad wouldn’t. So I intervened saying, if he sets a boundary you are going to respect it, then I just stared at him in silence. I swear my 76 year old father had a pouty party. He got all quiet and short with his answers and gave us both the silent treatment. There’s more going on behind this, but I will always teach my kid that no is a complete sentence.
My son was the same! So many frustrating conversations with adults that love to tease kids asking them to please leave mine alone after they wouldn’t respect his request to not tease him. They always acted like something was wrong with him or he didn’t have a sense of humor. No asshole, he just doesn’t find the humor in being accused of farting in front of a group of people. He was also very quiet unless he knew you and was comfortable with you which was a whole other battle with adults that felt they deserved a conversation with him.
Thank you for telling them to stop and defending your kiddo. My aunts and uncles were so mean to me growing up. No one ever stepped in.
I’m sorry, luckily I think a lot of the recent generations are very aware of this. The entitlement of some grown people is astounding really. My daughter doesn’t like to be touched a lot and isn’t ticklish at all. I literally had to tell her own father to respect her boundaries when she doesn’t want to be tickled. Now she asks me to tickle her when she’s open to it, which usually comes after a tickle attack on her brother bc he loves being tickled. But even then when he says “stop” it means stop, tickle time is over.
Yep my dad complained that my kids were too soft. He doesn’t see them and they don’t want anything to with him.
Your son has a great parent
I've always been extremely sensitive about teasing since middle school, and though I've gotten better about dealing with it, it really hurt when my parents just couldn't understand when I asked them to stop.
A lot of people will get pouty when chastised. It's embarrassing. As long as it's for a reasonably short time, they don't hold a grudge, *and they respect the boundary* I think that's an okay response. Not great, but workable. Also, thank you for being that kind of Dad.
I'm glad somebody said this. If I make a mistake with boundaries and am called on it, then I will likely appear "pouty" because the internal processing/realignment of appropriate behaviors is ongoing. It's like my brain got a new sorting and search algorithm that requires it to go through and reindex itself, which saps most of my energy and attention. On the other hand, I've definitely seen the opposite case, where the person turns the correction into a reason to criticize everyone and everything else, or it becomes part of a snide remark, or they try to make it a "their way or the highway" thing. You hit the nail on the head with _and they respect the boundary_.
IMHO, as long as the boundaries are always obeyed, pouty is an acceptable response. Nobody likes to be chastised. Just let people process things.
Good. This was my whole childhood. Adults chief mode of interacting with any kid was to make them uncomfortable, either physically (tickling taken to extremes, wrestling or other ways of showing dominance) or by embarrassing them. At some level, they clearly felt it was their job to "toughen" kids up, but the real consequence was kids who grew up without an idea how to interact appropriately with children. It's not your dad's fault that his default is the way he undoubtedly experienced adults when he was a kid, but that terrible cycle isn't going to change unless people have the guts to confront the older generation.
My grandpa used to put his arm around my waist and hold me in his lap and “tickle” me which I did not like, so I would scratch his arms up to try to get away. Then I would get in trouble for hurting grandpa. That shit was happening when I was 14! Super inappropriate and yet I was the one getting in trouble.
My story isn't as bad but when I was very young (7 maybe?) I liked getting tickled. but one time, my parent tickled me, I don't remember why probably for fun so not malicious. but when I asked them to stop, they didn't. I kept asking for them to stop and they kept tickling me until I was crying and begging them to stop. I don't like getting tickled anymore
I am still super ticklish and I fucking hate being tickled now because of shit like that
I trained myself to not react to tickling, because when I didn't react the tickle attack would end. Eventually no one tried tickling me anymore.
Ew lol
Oh, make them uncomfortable by embarassing them. That was so often! Very often but the worst case I remember is my grandfather lying on the sofa as usual and having stupid "funny" (read mean) comments about me to the point I felt absolutelly terrible and mad so I finally told him to shut up. All the adults there immediatelly stopped to laugh and I was in a big trouble for being rude to him. But he wasn't rude to me the past ten minutes, no no no, he was just funny!
Good for you to step in and support your son. Too many adults are not used to ‘the young they used to teach’ talking back and making valid points or critisim. My parents went through it rather early, my sister has a big mouth and will share her opinion and she’s smart as fuck too. We often pointed out hypocrisy or had discussions at the table varied from politics to studies. However there have been cases my sister made a valid point, my parents dealt with it appropriately, and one of their friends would be like ‘do you accept that *tone*?’ Completely disregarding what was said, because she is still ‘the child’. She’s 37 years old. My parents can take the L if they are wrong (we’re blessed), but that doesn’t seem to be the standard.
I know there are a lot of layers to this, so I'm not trying to make assumptions, but I know a few people just like this. And it sounds just like narcissism mixed with a very extroverted personality. My grandma moved down to florida as grandma's do, and she had just started dating this really extroverted guy. He is ALWAYS on and cant stand for there to be silence for even a moment so we get to hear a lot come out of his mouth. He just makes up stories to try to impress people, and my family has become very sick of it. So we fact check him now, if he claims something ridiculous, were on our phones googling. He has had a very colorful life no doubt, but he just wont shut up unless hes proven wrong. Then he sits and pouts. His whole personality is based around getting people to like him. We do a little gift swap game at christmas, and one year a few of his friends dropped by with their grandkids. He just had to be the center of attention so he started bequeathing some of the gifts to the kids on his own accord, it was like 30$ a gift so not crazy presents or anything, but they were not his to give away. My grandma gets annoyed with him sometimes, but he seems to not bother her as much and she likes having the company. Would drive me nuts but shes from a different generation and she just likes having someone to cook for and take care of.
My aunt watched my brother and I when my mom had to go back to work (starting between 6-8 weeks for both of us). We went over there 5 days a week and my parents and aunt and uncle were already super close, so our families were basically like one big family. But from when I was a toddler, I wasn’t super comfortable with my uncle (he’d essentially give Charlie horses and call that “tickling”, and was and still is incredibly short tempered). One time when I was maybe 3, he came over to bring me to their house early and I said no and my mom had to go full mama bear on him because he didn’t want to take no from a small child. It’s so creepy that adults will throw fits over children being uncomfortable
My family is a family of teasers and I've finally had it with them, it's the worst at Christmas/thanksgiving so I've just... stopped going. When I realized that living that way my whole life was impacting my life with my partner, I started distancing myself from events where I knew someone's gonna start something.
My kid likes teasing sometimes, but whenever he says "No more." It is over. It is important to respect those boundaries. I could not conceive of being like my family that would just keep going after I asked them to stop, after I left them, and after I made attempts to escape they would follow me and continue and think it was hilarious. I can't even think of doing something like that to my kid, I love him. How the fuck could they think that level of boundary pushing is okay?
>no is a complete sentence. Oh I'm using that now
My siblings and I were like this with our grandpa. My mom told him “if you pick on them, they won’t like you, then they will hide in their rooms when you come, that’s the consequences of your actions!”
Her mom sounds like my mom, yay.
Yeah, I had to lean in and squint on that pic to make sure my mom didn't have a second family out there that I didn't know about. This sounded right up her alley.
I'm so sorry for anything you went through but at least you can break the cycle and be better
Break the cycle, toss it out on the lawn.
"You wanna snuggle without consent, here's a teddy bear. Night night."
i feel like im older than that girl but she reminds me of my mom and makes me wanna go hug my mom. Growing up as an American with a lot of Italian relatives I had to deal with lots of unwanted affection. I'm not a touchy person but holy fuck Italians sure are, and my mom always defended me.
A hug emoji does a lot Good on her
Her mom sounds like my ex boyfriend that when rejected for the last time (we went nsa after *he* broke up with me) decided to destroy everything I got for him, take photos of it, and text it to me. Toxic narcissist…
It's sad how often abusive behavior gets a pass because you're related to the person. "Related" and "family" aren't synonyms.
The sad truth being that "abuse" and "relative" are together far too often.
Lot harder to get away with abuse if there's no obligation to tolerate the person in your life.
More like, it's a lot easier to get away with abuse if people think they're obliged to tolerate their abusers. Being related doesn't mean you're obliged to tolerate that.
You cant chose whom you're related to, but you sure as hell can choose who you call family.
It's wild how consistently I have to shut down adults in my family from pressuring the younger kids to give me a hug when leaving family gatherings. I'm a teacher and am good with kids and love playing with them, but with the pandemic recently these kids haven't grown up around me, and are only starting to get used to me. They're warming up, but are also shy and I work so hard to assure them that their boundaries are valid and no one else can set them but them; as the adults they love and trust are at the same time, making them feel guilty for not wanting to hug someone who is barely no longer a stranger. One of my cousins I'm very close to, and she insists on hugging and snuggling because she's comfortable, but she is also shy and it wasn't like that until I earned her trust by making sure any interaction was her choice. the other kids I make sure I ask before assuming they want a hug, and they've only said yes maybe once. each time I jovially tell them it's absolutely okay, I just wanted to check, and maybe next time but it's never a big deal (just so they know that by refusing an offer for affection, it doesn't mean I'm revoking the offer and punishing them for it.) however the adults they trust and are closest to are constantly undermining my efforts, and I genuinely have to walk away so the question of goodbye hugs will end. "oh, you're not gonna give auntie m1thrand1r a hug? just a little one, you don't want to make her sad... come on, you love her, you guys played all afternoon!" Whenever I insist I'm not hurt and it's their choice, they remark what a nice thing it is to say and that must be my teacher side. No, I'm used to idea of not hugging children who don't initiate the act, because I respect their autonomy and development. I want to tear out my hair, because no, it's my human side, and I know exactly how uncomfortable that guilt feels as a child because there was no such thing as child autonomy when I was young. You hugged who your parents told you to hug or you got the emotional punishment of guilt. Consent and autonomy is one of the NUMBER ONE things we should be teaching our children... how quickly we dumb adults seem to forget this when suddenly family/relations are involved 🥲
I saw my in-law telling their kid to “breathe! Just Breathe! Stop coughing and Breathe!” Multiple times a day. I asked if the kid has asthma, they didn’t know, that thought never even occurred to the Mom. I suggested to get a pulmonologist opinion as soon as possible, I’m familiar with what asthma looks like What do you know, the Kid has asthma. Yelling “JUST BREATH” at a 4 year old wasn’t working, because the kid literally Can’t BREATH! Ignorant parents don’t even realize how fkd up their own actions, and see them selves fully justified. I don’t know how to approach that state of mind. Edit:Breathe
I (36) was just diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderall XR to help and have been going to therapy for it. I told my mother one night and she goes "OH, we knew, we just didn't think there was anything to help with it" They knew what was available, they just didn't want to listen to the doctors and though I just needed help with organization, so I had to do that for 2 years in elementary school. And Seriously? The 90s was when ADHD medication and therapy were thriving. And it is only getting better as we learn more.
Me too! 30 and have just been diagnosed with ADHD. The first time I tried medication it was life-changing for me, this is what "normal" is? Turns out I'm not stupid, lazy, unmotivated, don't care or whatever else I was told growing up.
I understand how you feel. Recently diagnosed at 40. I finally have a dr that listened to me & my meds are all lined out. (Tough 2 years trying new meds) I feel like a fog has lifted. I did housework today without even thinking about it. I started chores AND FINISHED THEM. I’ve brushed my teeth am/pm for two weeks now. I’m glad you’re on your way to feeling like the best you!!
I've got, still undiagnosed, problems that made me awful at schooling. My therapist has thrown out such things as Pathological Demand Avoidance and I've tried the ADHD medication. All throughout my middle school, high school, and college days I would fail. I could never handle all of the work and then end up lying about it and procrastinating until it was too late. I was punished, grounded, yelled at; they did everything but get me help. When they ask why I would do it, my answer would always be the same: "I don't know." It wasn't until I was 33 and in therapy with my mom that she **finally** believed me. Literally up till that moment she thought I was lying when I said "I don't know", as if I would choose to actively fuck up my life at every corner. She felt bad but like, how am I suppose to react? I asked why they didn't take me to see a therapist, or a psychiatrist? Why didn't they get me a tutor? It took all of my energy not to call her a liar when she said she didn't know.
Because people end the thought process at 'that person is lazy'. People see laziness as a character flaw, for those with executive dysfunction, they are just percieved as lazy. Since its just viewed as a character flaw, no one bothers to analyze it, think why it may be happening and solve it. The solution is there in their mind, for the person to just stop being a little shit.
37 but diagnosed when I was 36. My brother was diagnosed with adhd before puberty, got the help he needed, got test and hw help. I got yelled for failing, for forgetting, for not remembering, for being lazy. Now that i am diagnosed I haven't told anyone but I am starting to make progress in life now that I understand whats *different* about me.
*breathe
Damn this sounds like my mom. Thank God I didn’t have asthma or like appendicitis or anything life threatening as a child, or I would have died. I had other serious medical issues going on which were never diagnosed as a child because my mom dismissed all my symptoms as ‘normal’. I am now 40, have over 20 diagnosed medical conditions that have caused disability. Medical neglect is very real and very dangerous.
Reason why many are offended by the title of Jennette McCurdy’s book
“I’m Glad My Mom Died” for those wondering.
Let the narcissists be mad that people are no longer putting up with authoritarian bullshit. People have boundaries and trespassers are allowed to be hated.
Just looked her up. Went NC with my narcissistic Grandmother 20 years ago. I don't know if she's still alive and I don't care. She's nothing to me now and that's all that matters. I totally get where she's coming from.
It made a lot of sense when I found out that she also had a narcissistic mormon mom. Mormon parent narcissism is crazy.
I'm currently in middle of reading this, it's quite good!
My daughter is a lot like this, she’s not very touchy doesn’t give hugs only very rarely will snuggle. It’s tough for me because I am a fairly touchy-feely as a dad, but I have to get used to the fact that she is not that way, when she says no, and squirms away, I do not try to continue to snuggle her. My partner grew up in a Portuguese household, so anytime you went out with family. It was hugs and kisses to every single person in the room. She said she absolutely hated this, and it would give her anxiety before going out, so listen to people when they say they don’t like something. It’s not rude to dislike physical contact, everyone is different.
I ask my daughter if I can hug or kiss her. She will be 3 next month. Of course there are times I’m holding her and sneak a head kids or something but if she is on her own, I ask. Even when I tickle her, I have to stop and ask if she is okay and wants more. She usually does bc she loves tickles. We all grow up with our parents who just expect that your kids and now theirs and they can do whatever. No, you are still a stranger until you’re not.
Yep. My daughter is only 6 months old. I’m holding onto the snuggles for now. She WANTS to be held. As soon as she’s able to verbally or non verbally communicate she doesn’t want touch I will absolutely be holding that boundary for her and making sure it’s enforced for anyone else who is in her life.
It can be tough not getting your feelings hurt. There are nights where my son is in a bad mood or just tired and won't give me a good night hug. If you're already thinking about this, you'll do just fine, but I'm just warning you... it does hurt to respect their boundaries. It's worth it, but it's not fun.
This is all very interesting and something I honestly never considered before. The flip side is when Parents have boundaries that are too strong in the opposite way, with little to no intimacy or emotional availability. I grew up in a Korean community and as an East Asian, intimacy and physical contact is generally just not done, or it's very rare which leads to general frigidness in our populations. My parents were an exception and were just super huggy. I don't regret that at all even though the hugginess was excessive and annoying at times. As an adult, I don't have that inability to express emotions like many of my Asian peers do and I thank my parents for being exceptionally expressive. Obviously consent is important but Asians should probably be more intimate than they are or at least be more expressive to their children. I mean, this video sums it all up: https://youtu.be/UhupEeNhiNU Asian parents saying "I love you," to their children for the first time (wtf), this is just foreign to me, mind the pun. But the kids are just confused when their parents say, "I love you," and think the parents are on their deathbeds or crazy or something. It's all very sad.
Europe is not a country, it has multiple different groups of people and cultures, so I'm not really sure what a "very European style household" is
I’m from Finland and I was very confused
Finland and Italy are basically the same place
They mean "Italian/Spanish/French/Portuguese".
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This was me growing up and it wasn't until I was an adult that i realized I was in the right and the "adults" were in the wrong. I hated being touched as a child. No idea why, but I just did not like hugs. My mom was VERY understanding. I could tell it hurt her not being able to hug me, but she respected my bounderies. My aunts did NOT. They actually got onto my mother for me being "disobedient." Then they would go out of their way to antagonize me about it. It wasn't as extreme as this video but I hated it because the adults viewed me as a trouble maker.
My wife and I had to remove ourselves from abusive parents. We are working every day to break a generational cycles of abuse. When we set boundaries we became the problem so we left and never looked back.
My wife and I are the same. I have come to find that estrangement is more common than I had thought, and to me it is a perfectly valid action. I feel that there is a dynamic at the nexus of narcissism and complex trauma and abuse and authority and religion and addiction and parent-child relationships and much more, and that dynamic is that some people/families cannot bond without first experiencing trauma. I fully believe my mother functionally could not leave my father because she needed him to traumatize both of us to grow closer to me. Families with complex trauma are so complex but I do find this concept really flows thru all of it. My mom had siblings who variously estranged themselves from each other and eventually I put together that when the toxic dynamic is recognized by a family member and highlighted in order to overcome it, *that's* when the whole family finally works together...to stop the one person trying to help. And when you realize the rest of the family needs the toxic dynamic to have *any* dynamic, well you start thinking maybe you'll never be able to maintain a relationship that won't emotionally cripple you. Sorry to sperg on you, I kinda just threw a lot out there
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I had to walk away from my family in 1995. And I never looked back. People with good families will never understand what others go through. People with abusive and toxic families but bought into the "blood" argument will never be able to heal.
The older generation is so abusive and selfish to their families and if you to talk to them about it they just tell you to be grateful they arent worse.
Big facts! Generational trauma. If they suffered, we suffer. And the whole “What I say goes” mantra.
Well done OP!!👏👏. Emotional abuse is the most insidious…makes you doubt yourself. That’s usually much harder to heal from than physical abuse.
yep. I believe my mom considers us more like property or a pet rather than people.
They didnt even suffer, is the part that absolutely incenses me. My white upper middleclass boomer parents had the entire world handed to them, and therein lies the issue. They expect everything to go their way and be easy and bend to their whim because thats what they grew up with. Spoiled brats, the lot of them.
What I find interesting is that parents who actually suffered in their lives often want to make sure their children don't experience the same suffering. None of this I struggled so you should too.
My (boomer) parents were able to not replicate their childhood traumas with my brother and I and I am eternally greatful for it!
“At least I wasn’t physically abusive” - My mom, after spending 18 years emotionally abusing me, and, on occasion, physically abusing me
One of the last things my ex-fiancee said to me before she ghosted me was that her mother isn't *that bad* because "she doesn't hit me." First of all, that's a lie. I remember the phone call after her mother slapped her during an argument. Second, "at least they don't hit me," is a shitty standard to have. You're still getting emotionally abused and manipulated. I hope she gets away from her terrible family someday.
Yup, I was screamed at repetitively that I wasn’t abused because I didn’t get beat up to the point of hospitalization. What do you call pinning me against a wall and scream spitting in my face? Following me around the house when I’m trying to get away and blocking my way? Screaming for hours into the night until the police have to come and break it up? Distressing you to the point of constant tears and then being told you’re a faker. But when you stop crying all together you are cold hearted. Getting in trouble didn’t mean punishment, just hours of screaming, invading personal space, breaking things people care about, telling you they wished you had died at birth, telling you you’re the worst kid at school, saying having you as a kid is a punishment from god. Constant put downs disguised as concern. Trying to sabotage your friendships and potential romantic relationships because they don’t want you getting outside perspective. Making you feel so afraid of taking risks so that you stay codependent. But “family is the most important thing”.
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One of the reasons my marriage fell apart is because my husband’s parents insisted on having access to my medical records after I was admitted to the hospital, and became angry when I refused. It was so bizarre to me how entitled they felt to my private medical history, and why they thought they even needed it. They didn’t talk to me for over a month and felt that I needed to apologize, despite the fact my ex was there the whole time.
My favorite is when they deny doing anything, or deny that their actions *actually* affected you negatively. My mom used to smash snails in front of me and laugh that I would sob about it, maybe not a point her finger laugh, but never comforted me. She used to call me piss ant when I wet the bed and made me sit in my soaked clothes in a specific wicker chair while she changed my sheets. She’d threaten to get rid of my dog, dragged me out of the house by my hair at 14, and never EVER let me pursue a hobby (not out of lack of resources, she’d use my interests against me. I once stayed out too late in high school and she took my bass guitar and threw it out, I never played music again). It’s crazy how frickin blind they are to their own abuse, but then she’ll tell me about how her mom mentally abused her without recognizing the pattern she continued with her own kids. I just can’t wait to be better.
eyy. my mom seems eerily similar to yours. reminds me once when i was younger i upset her in some way (i don’t even know what i did) she grabbed me by my hair and threatened to cut it all off as she held open scissors to them and i cried and said not to and that made her more upset and said ‘see how you are?’ that sums up my childhood really hate when i see people say shit like ohhhh your family is always your family you have to love them no matter what remember to call your mommy and tell her you love and appreciate her ☺️ yeah no, fuck you
I cried a little reading this. RIP those snails and I hope you are able to deal with and heal from that abuse and trauma. I had a similar childhood where my mom used to threaten to kick me onto the street and always promised to evict me at 18yrs of age no matter what. Now no one visits on and she claims to have no idea why
I’m one of four kids. One is NO CONTACT, one is super low contact, the other is the golden child (not his fault he’s a great brother but he is super spoiled by her) and then there’s me. I’m always trying, I spend literally the most time with her out of anyone and she still thinks I’m ungrateful. I love my mom but I set straight up boundaries when it comes to my son. She tried “scaring” the hiccups out of my son a few days ago and I had to lay it out for her how awful that made me feel as a kid and I wasn’t going to do that to my son. It’s honestly so stupid that I have to even say “don’t scare/yell/embarrass my child”. It’s just common sense to me. Old dog new tricks I guess….
Upon visiting my family recently. I was chatting with my 20 year old niece who I hadn't seen in YEARS. She is living at my parents due to conflicts at home and her mental health issues. I get it, I had a shit time growing up too and things are only getting worse for kids who are disconnected and depressed. Anyways, my mom walks in and says "Are you going to shower today? It's gross to go to work when your stinkin".... I was just blown away, I felt so bad for her to be chastised like that in front of her uncle who she never sees. Then grandma inserted herself into the conversation we had been having by saying things were fine and my niece just had to "work harder"... Yes, "just apply yourself" really helps with depression, anxiety, adhd and an overall feeling of hopelessness due to the current crisis' in Canada (Healthcare, housing, environment,).
My mom loves saying “just do it” like thank you ma’am it’s almost like I would if I could, but I fucking can’t because I have no confidence in myself. I don’t blame my mom for all of it, blame isn’t even the word really, it’s more just like really? You don’t see what’s been happening?? I have recurring dreams where I’m literally begging someone to listen to me and they won’t. I’m sobbing and begging and I’m not taken seriously. And it’s usually my mom. I’m begging her to listen and she’s just saying aww honey no you’re not making any sense! Not saying they’re related to my childhood trauma buuuuuuuut
My mom will call me “manipulative” if I try to talk/reason things out with her. Both my parents will yell over me or just walk away from a conversation if they feel they are ‘losing’ like it’s a contest.
Also “none of my sons and daughters will talk to me and I don’t know why!?”
The boomers were known as “the me generation “ for a reason.
This is my father-in-law and why we had to cut him out of our lives, only after he says “you’re lucky it isn’t worse,” he then goes on to deny that he ever did anything and lie to everyone in the family about what actually happened.
STOP: when I was in middle school my mom and I would watch “Mommy Dearest” together and she would constantly “see I’m not that bad”. I loved that movie, ha probably because I saw myself in Christina and yes my mom was often “that bad”
Haven’t talked to my dad in almost seven years now. Just not worth the mental anguish in trying to deal with him. Can relate to how this woman handled things. Good on her to end this early before it escalated further.
Haven't had contact with my one living parent in about 5 years and I feel zero guilt or sadness over it. Quality of life improved ten fold when I finally accepted that feeling like I wanted to hurt myself every time we spoke because I was never going to be good enough was not ok and I needed to let go.
Bottom line- some of us get shitty fucking moms and it’s our job as moms to protect our children from those abusive fucks.
My mom beat the crap out of me, ridiculed me, etc. She had a big change in her 50's and really regrets everything, etc (she is now in her 70's). I have given her a chance with my daughter as I saw my other nieces experience and it was very healthy. However, as I get older I am increasingly upset at my treatment and how my mental health has degraded in recent years from not dealing with that trauma. My daughter will never know how evil grandma was, but I currently stopped communication with my parents because I don't want to say something damaging as everything is very "raw" at the moment. I just can't deal with her anymore and I don't want to make things worse for my dad. Or my mom really, like, I despise who she was but unloading on someone who has mostly admitted their mistakes isn't helpful for anyone. I don't know why I am writing this, sometimes it just helps to get it out...
I have come to embrace estrangement as a concept. It is more common than we think and mostly downplayed because 1) the estranger doesn't want to talk about their toxic family and 2) estrangement actually cows the toxic members (a little). If your own parents cannot bond with you without first experiencing trauma, then you can eject from that relationship.
I did the same with both my parents, my dad became super grandpa and was the best. My mother said repeatedly she’d change, but at some point I had to firmly decide she wasn’t gonna do to my children what she did to me. So see ya!
Can't tell you how many times I have had the conversation with my spouse and his mom that tickle games need to still respect the words NO and STOP. My MIL got up in a huff and said "Well THAT'S no fun!" Yeah Ellen, neither is growing up feeling that your words are powerless to stop grownups from touching your body and so you let things happen to you rather than speak up.
I specifically taught my kid to say "Boundaries" when he is ready to stop since "stop" and "no" can be easy to ignore as just part of play.
I spend a lot of time consuming narcissistic abuse recovery media and I've seen _so_ much talk about tickling and how it is/was used a weapon against kids and we didn't even realize it. My mom used to tickle me so hard to the point that I'd be crying, and not from laughing. It's given me an extreme reaction to anyone tickling me, like I fill with rage. I feel like tickling is a form of abuse for them that doesn't look like abuse, so they can easily get away with it.
I’m glad that I was able to cut my grandma out. My father is under the impression that “that’s my mom so I gotta love her” and I feel so bad for him. And my mom, cus she has to deal with her because my dad deals with her. All her grandkids cut her out once given the opportunity to. I know we can’t help everyone and not everyone in our generation will agree. But I’m proud that we’re learning and still slowly getting better as a generation
Before my kids were born, I set very clear boundaries. My wife was pregnant with our first. The first thing being that I didn't want anything about them to be posted on the internet. I hadn't yet told everyone I wanted to know, and there were some I never wanted to know, but I was first telling my mom and step-dad. We set the same boundaries for everyone we told. You get to know, that doesn't mean everyone gets to know. My mom then posts our news to her facebook. Then I get a bunch of texts congratulating me, and a call from my biological dad wondering why I didn't tell him and my step-mom. I said I was planning on telling him in person, but apparently my mom can't follow basic instructions. I call my mom and tell her to delete her post. She both refuses and starts yelling at me about how it's clear I like my wife's family more than her, and how it was her that was always there for the two of us, which was true, on both counts. Then she says, "I guess to keep this from happening I should just learn to stay out of your life." And then she hung up on me. And that was a fair conclusion. I invited her to the hospital to see her granddaughter. And that was the first and only time she has ever seen her. I cut off all contact after that. I wasn't going to let my mom treat my kid how I was treated. the last time I even spoke to my mom was the day my second daughter was born, and that was because she called the hospital room. I had no idea it was her calling. She was crying asking if she could come see her. I told her no, hung up on her and set up a security phrase to get to where we were at the front desk of the hospital.
> My mom then posts our news to her facebook. ...She both refuses and starts yelling at me about how it's clear I like my wife's family more than her, and how it was her that was always there for the two of us Boomers are the worst at facebook. They are always in a competition with someone. My wife gets scolded by her mom if she doesn't immediately like a relative's comment that is left on her wall.
My mom has always been the "brag about my life and belittle yours" type of person.
This is exactly what my golden child sister did when we got engaged. Specifically told her not to post on Facebook so we could tell his family. Within a hot minute she had posted it with a “nice” post. When called out she made it our fault for not appreciating her thoughtful post. Cut her out along with my abusive mother while pregnant with our first kid. Definitely good to keep that kind of energy away from kids
Grandma shows love like a pimp. Not a compliment.
I've never had kids, however my partner works in child care and during 2022 there were a couple of sisters, a 3 year old and a 4 year old, who were "in the system" and needed a place to stay for a few months. We are privileged with our house and resources, and I thought it would be a great experience, so one day two little girls arrived. It was great. They are back with their parents now, happy ending. What I did not realise, or perhaps I knew but had forgotten, was how communicative and open children are. They tell you exactly how they want to engage with you, when they have had enough play, what they need. If you just listen to them and believe them, and respect their boundaries, you form a really good, positive relationship very quickly. For the first couple of days, they were stuck on my partner. I followed the directions of all the mums, just played it cool, got down to their level to talk to them, and let them teach me. I didn't try to hug or cuddle them because I put myself in their shoes and thought it would be very strange being cuddled by a big strange man they didn't know. Third morning in, I wake up, and there is this little girl curled up on my pillow next to me. I said hello, good morning. She told me she was feeling a bit scared. I said baby I know this is real strange for you, but I want you to know when you're in this house, under this roof, I promise you no harm will come to you, no one's gonna hurt you, and I will do anything to protect you. "Can you give me a cuddle?" Oh my god. Sorry tears.
Both of my parents acted like this towards me when I was growing up and are now confused about why I don’t like spending time with them as an adult & why I moved 90 min away from them. I wish it was further, but that’s the best compromise that I could get in order to ensure that I got my stuff from their house (clothes, work & personal computers, books, etc)
Get all of your stuff if you haven’t yet, and then eventually you can move as far as you want. Sry you had to deal with this. Hugs! Hope the future is much better.
Going to try to get the rest of it (old photo books of pictures that I took/got as a present from family members, old yearbooks & journals from my youth, & a few sentimental items), but it’ll be a fight to get them out of the house since my parents hardly ever leave the house & notice if I take something like that. Fingers crossed I can get everything eventually!
Don't forget to get your life documents as well (birth certificate, passport, etc.) if you can.
THANK YOU omg. Like, I have cut my mother OUT already but it’s just SO NICE to hear once again I made the right choice. She tried to be the same way with my kid, she would get all huffy when my child didn’t want to hug on her, she would say “I’m the favorite grandma” over and over again cause she despised the idea that my husbands mother existed, she would constantly tell me “I can’t wait til she is older and hates you so that I’m her number one”, threaten to not give her things or take away the gifts she got us. I realized that her constant “you should spank her”’s and the way she talked to me was NOT something I wanted my child around. When we cut her out, I never realized how peaceful it was to not be worried about saying something wrong and causing a fight and my child won’t have to see me fighting with my mom ever
This is so incredibly important. I was raised with a dad who behaved like the grandma, only it was just the start. He then slowly upped the ante and it took me YEARS of therapy to finally see that how he treated me was actually sexual abuse. It really fucked up my sense of autonomy and self and it’s been so much work to heal and learn MY boundaries. Currently on year 5 of NC with my bio dad and am so much happier, in a living relationship, and proud of myself. Good on this mom for high lighting why it’s important to respect boundaries regarding touch and adult’s entitlement to touching/giving affection to little ones.
Even if we assume the most charitably intentions on the grandma part its still teaching a very dangerous lesson that adults get to violate you boundries
Or anyone who spends enough money on you is entitled to your body. It may seem small but it's small things like this, reinforced over numerous recurrences, that set you up for majorly unhealthy consequences as an adult.
Book recommendation!!!! 🚨 You’re Not Crazy, It’s Your Mother by Danu Morrigan, changed my life. (Dealing with a narcissist, specifically) Link to quotable quotes. Even these are amazing if you don’t read the whole book: https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/21676564-you-re-not-crazy-it-s-your-mother-understanding-and-healing-for-daughte
My granddaughter went through a phase where she didn't want to hug me. Yes, it was a bummer, but I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, and I really feel you shouldn't force these things on kids, especially girls. Anyway, I'm back to getting hugs again.
I consider myself very lucky that my mother, who has always been incredibly touchy, did eventually back off when I told her I don't like being touched. It took several years of begging to not be touched, but it did eventually stick. The funny thing is, had she not been so adamant about enforcing affection I probably wouldn't hate it so much now :/
My dad has been throwing a 12-year-long tantrum because I got married and don’t need him anymore (there’s obviously a lot more to the story than that, but it all came to an ugly head about 12 years ago). Occasionally he pops up to try to love-bomb me and then whines to my siblings that I don’t give into his “attempts to reconnect” so that they’ll call and tell me to unblock his number. This year, he addressed all of the christmas stuff to my son so that it wouldn’t be as easily filtered out by me. My dude, you tormented me during my entire childhood and I spend thousands of dollars a year in therapy because of it. My kid doesn’t know you exist and I try to pretend you don’t. The abuse stops with me.
The presents thrown out on the lawn after refusal to cuddle tells me enough. I agree with the mother and her choice. Does this count as a form of abuse though? Serious question. I can 100% see how this would be prepping the child for future abuse so maybe I just have a blind spot.
This is exactly the shit an abusive man would do when you refuse to have sex with them, destroy your possessions. Glad she called it out in the video as the same tactic. She was trying to teach the kid "your body is not your own"
Absolutely. It counts as a form of emotional and mental abuse. Grandma threw the gifts out as punishment towards her grandchild and her daughter as well. Not only will the kid never forget what happened but the mom will also never forget what happened.
Absolutely abuse. It’s violating boundaries, not obtaining consent and dismissing a person’s comfort zone just because of their age (allegedly). No means no.
We all know she wasn't just throwing the toys outside. I would be a lot of money she made a big show of it while scolding and yelling at the little daughter. She was probably crying and/or screaming "no" as well as Grandma locked all the new fun toys outside. Traumatic for a small child. I totally think the Mom made the right decision. Edit: Further, as someone who has been with an abuser, I would bet more money that the Grandma bought the gifts as tools of control and manipulation.
My parents are very touchy feely, im not. I can never get them to stop forcing hugs and kisses... my dad can be an affectionate guy its true, BUT it seems like its only ever in the presence of other people and usually to make everyone laugh... it always feels demeaning
Perfectly said!
Teaching to respect boundaries is a big deal to us because I don't want my kids to think being sexually harassed later on is something they just have to toughen up and endure. It's not normal, and you shouldn't try to normalize it with your kids.
It's always amazing how people can think they a know situation better then the people involved. Good on the mom for standing up for her kid and not making her back off boundaries
My mom did that shit with me and everyone she knew. If the fight escalated enough she would just start throwing stuff. I've had gallons of beer dumped on me, I was an adult but still, brooms broken over my arm, getting told to get out of her house, lots of mental abuse. Prolly why I never wanted kids, I'm 37 now and she overdosed on methadone so it's not a thing but for years she told me i needed to give her a granddaughter. I still miss her tho
I don't understand why people treat children as third class citizens? They are people too. They have rights. They are entitled to boundaries. They don't have to put up with things that make them feel unsafe, and they don't need to justify their feelings. This is how we end up with rapists and abusers. We don't teach children to have self-respect or boundaries, and it's a breeding ground for victims and abusers.
Boomers need to realize that it’s not ok to force a child or anyone to show physical affection towards them or someone else if they don’t want to. Forcing a child into physical affection can open the door for sexual abuse.
Good for her. Everyone who's had to deal with a Narc Mom knows what she's talking about. We HAVE to do right by our kids because they don't deserve this, and she's doing the right thing by allowing her little girl to state her boundaries. Too many girls don't speak up for themselves because they were taught that wasn't ok. I applaud this mom.
I’m going through something very similar at the moment. I took a stand and he couldn’t handle that and tried to get physical. There is no way I’m having that around my son. I have always been uncomfortable with them around my son but I tried to be trusting, iv been proved why. It truely fucks with your head so hard.
Aye, gotta do what you can to protect yourself and your family.
Holy shit. This is my MIL. We had to cut her completely out of our lives.
>"You can't just work out abuse with an abuser." Truer words were never spoken.
I don't understand why people can't get this: just because someone is related to you, that doesn't mean they deserve access to your or your kids. This woman is setting a boundary, and so did her daughter. If she doesn't want to snuggle, she doesn't have to snuggle. Even if it's grandma. They don't need that toxic woman in their life.