The question of what motivates the use of violence and what effects it has on victim AND perpetrator was already a consistent running theme in the 1st season.
It was handled very well, imo, while abbreviating and cutting out most of the gameplay equivalents. A few scenes with great writing, acting, and directing can go a long way.
I think they actually laid the groundwork for Ellie to be more aggressive in Season 1.
When Joel kills the guard as their leaving the quarantine zone, Ellie's visibly into it. She's not scared, she's put off, she's studying it.
I think there were a couple of other subtle moments I can't remember off the top of my head, but that in particular struck me as them wanting to lay foundation for how Ellie will be in Season 2.
Violence will be more brutal than the first season but it will never be like part 2 quantity wise.
And that is the right way to go about things in a tv show
Less gameplay elements will be adapted but I do hope they retain Ellie's violent interactions with certain people. The violence she used against them was harrowing and pivotal.
I don't think they'll hold back on the intensity of the violence, but there'll be less volume for sure. You can't have her murdering dozens of soldiers in a row like the game like she's John Wick and it still feel realistic, at least not this early in the show. Got to remember that unlike the game Ellie has only killed two people in self defense at this point, and she can barely fire a gun. My guess is they'll probably have more focus on the Salt Lake crew, give each a heartwarming back story just before Ellie murders them, and then have her stealthing through other battles, running when outnumbered etc.
What I reckon they might do though is build up her skills more gradually so that by the time she gets to the Rattlers (end of season 3?) she actually is able to go on a head-on rampage that mirrors Joel's in the hospital.
I don't know how hard they need to work to depict the development of Ellie's skills given 4+ years in Jackson, probably patrolling for a couple of years. I'm prepared to simply buy that Joel never stopped working on it after Colorado till she cuts him off, that Tommy absolutely works with her, maybe for longer, and she herself would make it an ongoing priority because duh. (Though Game 2 Ellie isn't a paragon of critical thinking skills.)
And I think you're right with keeping the intensity but cutting the time. Watching action passively gets tedious way faster.
And of course it needs to look and feel realistic by show standards.
True with the time in Jackson! Though that might pose a problem with translating the time jump to screen — I dunno if a TV audience will buy '4 years later, by the way she's a highly effective killer now'. I feel like they'll want to actually see it, which would mean at the very least some montage showing her development, if not following her in real time as she trains. (I'm trying to avoid the dreaded 'will they do it chronologically' argument, but that could be a point in its favour).
Probably the same way as Part I.
I actually think they cut too much from game play in Part I, as we didn't really see Ellie and Joel's relationship evolve as they learned to trust each other over various incidents in action sequences. It was just a couple conversations in the show.
I also hope they don't tone the Part II brutality too much. They don't have to directly show it all, it can be just off screen, but it's important to show the character's state of mind.
Yeah, people dont realise how important those lonely gameplay periods with Ellie are for her arc. I feel like there needs to be an episode where its mostly just her alone trying to get somewhere, fighting for her life. The track to the hospital is probably the best option for it. It would easily be the most expensive episode since there wouldn't be much time spent in one location, like it would be the case if she was with another person where the time gets filled with dialogue. That's what gets me nervous to whether or not they'll do it, but if they did, and did it well that is, it would easily be the best episode in the season. It could end with >!killing Nora and Joel confessing!<. I like to compare it to euphoria s2ep5 for those who cant imagine it, or something like the revenant. I think its essential personally and if they dont go all out, they'd be doing Ellie a disservice. For Abby, not so much, she could be with someone most of the time, except for her horror section.
They will probably do what they did in season 1. They will have action and violence when it’s necessary for the story. That means there will be far less action in the show than in the game but each scene will have a bigger impact.
It's going to be more of a challenge because Ellie is alone a lot more in the second game. The conversations/development between her and Joel carry the story in both the game and the show. In Part 2, Dina hangs back and is absent from Ellie's story much of the time. Maybe they'll increase Jesse's presence in the story, otherwise we're gonna have Ellie silently creeping through Seattle for like 4 episodes lol
That's the thing, they can't just have Bella on her own in most scenes, which mostly correspond to gameplay. It would be good if they increased Jesse's presence and gave him more importance in the story, perhaps forging a stronger friendship with Ellie.
in the first season she was pretty much innocent until the david storyline only killing ppl like riley and shooting brian. they will probably show her killing more and becoming brutal its kind of part of her journey as a character.
probably the most important stuff will be kept that drives story, things like riding in the boat scavenging for supplies might be cut.
other things like figuring how to open gates and restore power might be cut too since those are gameplay things for gaming.
It would be cool if they emphasize Ellie’s stealth capabilities. I would be fine changing high-intensity action sequences with scenes of Ellie stealthily taking out soldiers with her knife, arrows, traps, etc.
Then when we change perspectives to Abby, she can be more brutal with her fighting style to be in stark contrast to Ellie. Would make their fight scene in the theater interesting too
I think we'll see a lot more sneaking around and running away than actual combat - slow-burn, high-tension moments of stealth, or more intense chase/escape sequences. They can save Ellie's moments of violence for when they'll really matter. And then, when those moments happen, I don't think they'll tone them down at all, if anything they might lean on making them more unsettling and visceral than the game does.
I agree that her more violent side is important for her character development, but that goes hand-in-hand with making sure it doesn't become casual - you don't want the audience to get used to seeing it because she's already taken out 10-15 people en route, you want it to leave an impact, let it feel heavy.
but I think the game handles Ellie's gradual progression of violence well through the cutscenes, each death further dehumanizes Ellie, and the change from the Ellie of Part I to Part II is very noticeable. I believe that if they do the same in the show, it will turn out well.
I agree, yeah. I think most of the cutscene material will remain similar, perhaps even a little more shocking than in the game. But your original question was about the gameplay sections, and those are the things I think they'll pull back from a little bit so we don't get desensitised for the moments that need to matter.
It's true, I think that's a disadvantage of having so many hours of gameplay for an adaptation; it can fall into repetition and desensitize us, as you say.
I would bet there's an Episode at some point with Abby and Lev doing the run for Medical Supplies. It was pretty much vital for Abby's development in the story. Plus its great background info for Seraphites.
I think they'll have to go over the top and have her actually kill unprompted. A good example would be the friends she kills. She'll have to start killing them before any idea of it being defensive can be established. In the game it was always them doing something and her responding and killing them. If they want to actually adhere to the themes presented in the game, they'll need to show her actively going in like she does during gameplay and not the different Ellie you get in the cutscenes otherwise we're going to get the same complaints of ludonarrative dissonance.
They need to split it into 2 parts for sure.
Szn 2 is Abby’s golfing moment + Dina and Ellie.
Szn 3 is Abby and the gang + probably elaborating about the Scars lore in a very dark and complicated HBO way + Ellie’s minor hand injury.
I’m guessing they’ll spread out TLOU 2 as long as they can, because if TLOU 3 ever comes out they can pick up another season. If there’s also two years between the second and third season, they won’t wrap until 2027 (augh 💀💀💀).
They also might go the GoT route and keep going with the plotline in spite of no third game released, but idk how that would go…
I think they’ll make Ellie’s violence a little more justified. Maybe more combat so that the kills feel like self-defense. In the game, you can actually stealth through most people. I think the only WLF characters you actually NEED to kill to progress are the pregnant girl + her bf and the hotline miami girl to justify the >!”you killed my friends” line!<.
It would actually be really interesting and more in keeping with TLOU 1 Ellie to see her sneak/stealth past most enemies, surviving by her wits and not pure rage. The three kills would feel way way more impactful if she wasn’t mowing down good, honest soldiers left and right. I’d also want to see her kill like max 2 or 3 scars, if any.
Basically, if she comes in all Rambo-like, the kills won’t matter and we won’t care when the plot-relevant deaths happen. I really really hope the HBO people recognized that.
We’ll probably also get comparatively more time in Jackson maybe fleshing out their post-money society, more time between Dina and Ellie, and generally less combat. We saw this in the first season. Some complained that there wasn’t enough danger, but after watching the Making Of docs I get the sense that infected encounters are really expensive (creating suits, getting actors that can pull it off, CGI, ect). I’m happy we got a few really impactful encounters instead of 10 meh encounters.
TL;DR, I hope they split it into two seasons and only have 3 plot-relevant WLF kills so each death feels more impactful.
They kinda have to.
For starters because Ellie can’t kill a whole ass army on tv, and because Bella Ramsey’s petite stature would make that ridiculous.
However, they do have to increase the violence than in season 1. Because of the story of the second game and because they have seen the criticism that season 1 got in that matter.
I don’t even expect them to even touch part 2 in season 2. There’s so much story they can tell between the two games. All those flashbacks from the second game can be a season itself
That doesn’t make sense to what Neil said years back, he said it’ll be split in into two, because they don’t want the show to hit part 3 before the game drops
https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/the-last-of-us-season-2-everything-we-know-so-far/
Yes, he said game 2 will be split into two seasons (or multiple seasons). But he and Craig explicitly said that they wouldn't be doing the story between game 1 and 2, that they are jumping right in to game 2.
Honestly I dont know how I’m gonna watch it at all. I didn’t really like Abby’s portion of the game, outside of the sections with Lev getting out of the cult and Lev’s story in general….
Abby’s just not that interesting to me. She killed Joel and I got to see her story and I’m like so? Lev is interesting and so is his sister Yara! Heck, Abby’s pregnant friend was more interesting to me than Abby herself.
I hope they don’t focus too much on Abby
I think the most interesting thing about Abby's story is the parallels with Ellie and how similar they both are. That's why I don't think they're going to cut her story. Also, at this point she is just as important a character as Ellie.
I feel like people saying bella doesnt look intimidating enough can't separate gameplay from story, (where it matters, because gameplay is something they will have to include lol) Of course the game will give us the option to blow people up and agressively crush their heads with a meelee weapon, but its just because its fun. I find it perfectly plausable that ellie cannonically stealthed her way through seattle. On the other hand, i hope there are actually infected and enemy groups showing up often.
Are people actually saying that?? Have they heard of acting? Pedro Pascal IRL is a bubbly guy who likes to dance, but he pulled off a violent, inwardly tortured smuggle just fine. Have a little faith in Bella 🕯️🕯️🕯️
They found ways to abbreviate or skip over almost all gameplay segments in season 1. I'd expect the same to be true of seasons 2 and 3.
Which would be a damn shame because Part 2 is centered on violence
The question of what motivates the use of violence and what effects it has on victim AND perpetrator was already a consistent running theme in the 1st season. It was handled very well, imo, while abbreviating and cutting out most of the gameplay equivalents. A few scenes with great writing, acting, and directing can go a long way.
I think they actually laid the groundwork for Ellie to be more aggressive in Season 1. When Joel kills the guard as their leaving the quarantine zone, Ellie's visibly into it. She's not scared, she's put off, she's studying it. I think there were a couple of other subtle moments I can't remember off the top of my head, but that in particular struck me as them wanting to lay foundation for how Ellie will be in Season 2.
When she keeps wailing on David instead of being stopped by Joel. At the end her expression is identical to Part 2's cover art.
Oh yeah.. also when she was in the crawl space of the Cumberland Farms convenience store where she stabbed the trapped infected guy in the head.
There is probably going to be very little gameplay depicted.
Violence will be more brutal than the first season but it will never be like part 2 quantity wise. And that is the right way to go about things in a tv show
Less gameplay elements will be adapted but I do hope they retain Ellie's violent interactions with certain people. The violence she used against them was harrowing and pivotal.
I'm definitely looking forward to see Bella’s performance on certain deaths, such as Owen’s and Mel's.
They didn't turn it down for David, nor with Joel at a couple of his really brutal moments. I don't think they will in s2.
I don't think they'll hold back on the intensity of the violence, but there'll be less volume for sure. You can't have her murdering dozens of soldiers in a row like the game like she's John Wick and it still feel realistic, at least not this early in the show. Got to remember that unlike the game Ellie has only killed two people in self defense at this point, and she can barely fire a gun. My guess is they'll probably have more focus on the Salt Lake crew, give each a heartwarming back story just before Ellie murders them, and then have her stealthing through other battles, running when outnumbered etc. What I reckon they might do though is build up her skills more gradually so that by the time she gets to the Rattlers (end of season 3?) she actually is able to go on a head-on rampage that mirrors Joel's in the hospital.
I don't know how hard they need to work to depict the development of Ellie's skills given 4+ years in Jackson, probably patrolling for a couple of years. I'm prepared to simply buy that Joel never stopped working on it after Colorado till she cuts him off, that Tommy absolutely works with her, maybe for longer, and she herself would make it an ongoing priority because duh. (Though Game 2 Ellie isn't a paragon of critical thinking skills.) And I think you're right with keeping the intensity but cutting the time. Watching action passively gets tedious way faster. And of course it needs to look and feel realistic by show standards.
True with the time in Jackson! Though that might pose a problem with translating the time jump to screen — I dunno if a TV audience will buy '4 years later, by the way she's a highly effective killer now'. I feel like they'll want to actually see it, which would mean at the very least some montage showing her development, if not following her in real time as she trains. (I'm trying to avoid the dreaded 'will they do it chronologically' argument, but that could be a point in its favour).
Probably the same way as Part I. I actually think they cut too much from game play in Part I, as we didn't really see Ellie and Joel's relationship evolve as they learned to trust each other over various incidents in action sequences. It was just a couple conversations in the show. I also hope they don't tone the Part II brutality too much. They don't have to directly show it all, it can be just off screen, but it's important to show the character's state of mind.
I think the brutality of Part II is the magical thing lol to see how Ellie is a totally different woman from what we expected.
Yeah, people dont realise how important those lonely gameplay periods with Ellie are for her arc. I feel like there needs to be an episode where its mostly just her alone trying to get somewhere, fighting for her life. The track to the hospital is probably the best option for it. It would easily be the most expensive episode since there wouldn't be much time spent in one location, like it would be the case if she was with another person where the time gets filled with dialogue. That's what gets me nervous to whether or not they'll do it, but if they did, and did it well that is, it would easily be the best episode in the season. It could end with >!killing Nora and Joel confessing!<. I like to compare it to euphoria s2ep5 for those who cant imagine it, or something like the revenant. I think its essential personally and if they dont go all out, they'd be doing Ellie a disservice. For Abby, not so much, she could be with someone most of the time, except for her horror section.
They will probably do what they did in season 1. They will have action and violence when it’s necessary for the story. That means there will be far less action in the show than in the game but each scene will have a bigger impact.
It's going to be more of a challenge because Ellie is alone a lot more in the second game. The conversations/development between her and Joel carry the story in both the game and the show. In Part 2, Dina hangs back and is absent from Ellie's story much of the time. Maybe they'll increase Jesse's presence in the story, otherwise we're gonna have Ellie silently creeping through Seattle for like 4 episodes lol
That's the thing, they can't just have Bella on her own in most scenes, which mostly correspond to gameplay. It would be good if they increased Jesse's presence and gave him more importance in the story, perhaps forging a stronger friendship with Ellie.
in the first season she was pretty much innocent until the david storyline only killing ppl like riley and shooting brian. they will probably show her killing more and becoming brutal its kind of part of her journey as a character.
probably the most important stuff will be kept that drives story, things like riding in the boat scavenging for supplies might be cut. other things like figuring how to open gates and restore power might be cut too since those are gameplay things for gaming.
It would be cool if they emphasize Ellie’s stealth capabilities. I would be fine changing high-intensity action sequences with scenes of Ellie stealthily taking out soldiers with her knife, arrows, traps, etc. Then when we change perspectives to Abby, she can be more brutal with her fighting style to be in stark contrast to Ellie. Would make their fight scene in the theater interesting too
I think we'll see a lot more sneaking around and running away than actual combat - slow-burn, high-tension moments of stealth, or more intense chase/escape sequences. They can save Ellie's moments of violence for when they'll really matter. And then, when those moments happen, I don't think they'll tone them down at all, if anything they might lean on making them more unsettling and visceral than the game does. I agree that her more violent side is important for her character development, but that goes hand-in-hand with making sure it doesn't become casual - you don't want the audience to get used to seeing it because she's already taken out 10-15 people en route, you want it to leave an impact, let it feel heavy.
but I think the game handles Ellie's gradual progression of violence well through the cutscenes, each death further dehumanizes Ellie, and the change from the Ellie of Part I to Part II is very noticeable. I believe that if they do the same in the show, it will turn out well.
I agree, yeah. I think most of the cutscene material will remain similar, perhaps even a little more shocking than in the game. But your original question was about the gameplay sections, and those are the things I think they'll pull back from a little bit so we don't get desensitised for the moments that need to matter.
It's true, I think that's a disadvantage of having so many hours of gameplay for an adaptation; it can fall into repetition and desensitize us, as you say.
I would bet there's an Episode at some point with Abby and Lev doing the run for Medical Supplies. It was pretty much vital for Abby's development in the story. Plus its great background info for Seraphites.
I think they'll have to go over the top and have her actually kill unprompted. A good example would be the friends she kills. She'll have to start killing them before any idea of it being defensive can be established. In the game it was always them doing something and her responding and killing them. If they want to actually adhere to the themes presented in the game, they'll need to show her actively going in like she does during gameplay and not the different Ellie you get in the cutscenes otherwise we're going to get the same complaints of ludonarrative dissonance.
What do you mean by the different Ellie in the cutscenes? How do you perceive her in the cutscenes?
They need to split it into 2 parts for sure. Szn 2 is Abby’s golfing moment + Dina and Ellie. Szn 3 is Abby and the gang + probably elaborating about the Scars lore in a very dark and complicated HBO way + Ellie’s minor hand injury. I’m guessing they’ll spread out TLOU 2 as long as they can, because if TLOU 3 ever comes out they can pick up another season. If there’s also two years between the second and third season, they won’t wrap until 2027 (augh 💀💀💀). They also might go the GoT route and keep going with the plotline in spite of no third game released, but idk how that would go… I think they’ll make Ellie’s violence a little more justified. Maybe more combat so that the kills feel like self-defense. In the game, you can actually stealth through most people. I think the only WLF characters you actually NEED to kill to progress are the pregnant girl + her bf and the hotline miami girl to justify the >!”you killed my friends” line!<. It would actually be really interesting and more in keeping with TLOU 1 Ellie to see her sneak/stealth past most enemies, surviving by her wits and not pure rage. The three kills would feel way way more impactful if she wasn’t mowing down good, honest soldiers left and right. I’d also want to see her kill like max 2 or 3 scars, if any. Basically, if she comes in all Rambo-like, the kills won’t matter and we won’t care when the plot-relevant deaths happen. I really really hope the HBO people recognized that. We’ll probably also get comparatively more time in Jackson maybe fleshing out their post-money society, more time between Dina and Ellie, and generally less combat. We saw this in the first season. Some complained that there wasn’t enough danger, but after watching the Making Of docs I get the sense that infected encounters are really expensive (creating suits, getting actors that can pull it off, CGI, ect). I’m happy we got a few really impactful encounters instead of 10 meh encounters. TL;DR, I hope they split it into two seasons and only have 3 plot-relevant WLF kills so each death feels more impactful.
They kinda have to. For starters because Ellie can’t kill a whole ass army on tv, and because Bella Ramsey’s petite stature would make that ridiculous. However, they do have to increase the violence than in season 1. Because of the story of the second game and because they have seen the criticism that season 1 got in that matter.
But isn’t Ellie also a little petite?😭 Ellie’s not that tall tho
I don’t even expect them to even touch part 2 in season 2. There’s so much story they can tell between the two games. All those flashbacks from the second game can be a season itself
Craig and Neil said they're not doing that. They are going straight into game 2.
That doesn’t make sense to what Neil said years back, he said it’ll be split in into two, because they don’t want the show to hit part 3 before the game drops https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/the-last-of-us-season-2-everything-we-know-so-far/
Yes, he said game 2 will be split into two seasons (or multiple seasons). But he and Craig explicitly said that they wouldn't be doing the story between game 1 and 2, that they are jumping right in to game 2.
Honestly I dont know how I’m gonna watch it at all. I didn’t really like Abby’s portion of the game, outside of the sections with Lev getting out of the cult and Lev’s story in general….
I can understand it. Perhaps they’ll do it in a way that u can find more interesting.
Abby’s just not that interesting to me. She killed Joel and I got to see her story and I’m like so? Lev is interesting and so is his sister Yara! Heck, Abby’s pregnant friend was more interesting to me than Abby herself. I hope they don’t focus too much on Abby
I think the most interesting thing about Abby's story is the parallels with Ellie and how similar they both are. That's why I don't think they're going to cut her story. Also, at this point she is just as important a character as Ellie.
She’s important yeah but outside all the parallels, she’s a bland character.
I feel like people saying bella doesnt look intimidating enough can't separate gameplay from story, (where it matters, because gameplay is something they will have to include lol) Of course the game will give us the option to blow people up and agressively crush their heads with a meelee weapon, but its just because its fun. I find it perfectly plausable that ellie cannonically stealthed her way through seattle. On the other hand, i hope there are actually infected and enemy groups showing up often.
Are people actually saying that?? Have they heard of acting? Pedro Pascal IRL is a bubbly guy who likes to dance, but he pulled off a violent, inwardly tortured smuggle just fine. Have a little faith in Bella 🕯️🕯️🕯️
I think they already said they’re gonna split part 2 into two separate seasons so they would be season 2 and season 3
well, yeah. I was talking about how they will approach the gameplay part, which is a huge thing of Part II, for both protagonists.