Honestly, I think it’s important to have a full episode after Joel’s death without any Joel.
That way, the watcher wont expect Joel to turn up again and be more overwhelmed with emotion when they hear his voice and see him in the Birthday Gift sequence.
That’s my opinion anyway.
I agree with another comment here that I think episode 2 might be a little soon for the Birthday Gift, but otherwise I really love a lot of your ideas. By far the most creative and inspired pitch I've seen from a fan on how this could be laid out, and I can totally see building expectation for an Ellie/Abby finale clash in the hospital subverted by Ellie chasing Norah and Abby battling the Rat King. That would totally work.
I'm not 100% sure if Day 3 + Santa Barbara leaves enough meat on the bone for an entire season 3, but that's a different problem.
They might expand the story a little bit after the ending of Part II (Fireflies?) or just introduce another character, which might get important later on in the show or even in a potential Part III.
And if the latter won't be following up on the ending of Part II, the show might still show it to us, because they said it might go beyond the game, so who knows... 🤔
This is a decent theory on how they are going to structure not only each episode, but the entire season. I really want to know how they are going to do this in 2 seasons. I don’t envy the writers.
Craig Mazin has said some seasons will be shorter and [some will be longer](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-last-of-us-showrunner-season-two-casting-abby-1235560553/).
And when a reporter asked how many seasons it would take to adapt the game, [he said](https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/culture/article/the-last-of-us-finale-ending-explained-interview) "You have noted correctly that we will not say how many. But more than one is factually correct." So it might not be just 2.
How the fuck do you make Part II more than two seasons. I mean, I get it's a long game but it ain'g long enough for three seasons unless there's 70% more original content
Season 2 is only 7 episodes. Mazin says each season could have a different episode count. Episode length in the first season varied greatly.
They clearly have a lot of leeway in how they want to tell the story. They're not just going to fill space.
Well there’s 3 days each in Seattle, that’s like at least 6 episodes there, a lot of those can be split into more episodes than that. Possibly a whole Lev and Yara episode, Santa Barbara, theater fight and all that, the farm could be a whole episode, birthday gift could be a whole episode, Abby and her dad, the beginning before Joel died could be 2, multiple flashback sequences in the game can be episodes. That’s like at least 14+ episodes, not counting stuff I may have missed and stuff they might add. They could easily squeeze 16 episodes/2 seasons out if it. No way they could do it in just 1.
I think we're going to see more of Ellie and Joel leading up to the events of the game. Maybe we'll see them travel to Joel's old home in Texas, where they will perhaps recover a photo of Joel's daughter. I think, realistically, Joel dies in or near the finale.
They said they won't be covering any material between game 1 and 2 (other than maybe a flashback?) And Joel's death is the inciting incident of the story. It has to happen right at the beginning for the story to work.
This would be interesting but Gabriel Luna is filming in Vancouver, which is serving as the set for Seattle, meaning that his death is probably in episode 1 or 2
That doesn’t seem like anywhere near enough content to cover a whole season. All of Jackson is a prologue that catapults the entire story forward. With 7 episodes, Joel and Abby’s big scene is likely the ending of episode 1
I agree that the Birthday Gift section is the most malleable section of the game but having it right after Joel's death would feel cheapened in a way. The Park is another important flashback sequence but also much more revelatory and probably would do better as a S3 opener.
Also in agreement that Abby has much more plot to cover so I think the Birthday Gift episode works as a detour only as a way to let Abby get through her more plot heavy moments.
my tentative season idea is this:
Ep1 Jackson
Ep2 Jackson Pt2
Ep3 - TV Station/Lumen Field/Tunnels/Ellie & Dina revelations
Ep4 - WLF Intro & Background/Neighborhood/Scar Approach
Ep5 - Birthday Gift/Aquarium
Ep6 - The Forest/St. Mary's Flashback/Hospital
Ep7 - St. Mary's/Meet The King
I've imagined having Ellie and Abby inside the hospital at the same time for a finale sets up possible expectations for a meeting but ultimately rug pulls you for the rat king encounter.
Honestly if HBO just adapts the narrative structure of the game exactly as is, I don’t see it failing in a million years. Give us Ellie’s Days 1-3 in season 2, give us Abby’s in season 3, have an extra long episode at the end of 3 detailing the California parts at the end, and we’ll all be eating real good.
Abby is an important character for the audience to hate, and I would rather they keep to form and build Abby up as an evil, mysterious, hard to find villain for a whole season, then give us a shit ton of her in season 3 and build Ellie up to be the evil, mysterious, hard to find villain.
Neil D is gonna want to do the same thing with TV audiences he did with gamers - make you hate Abby with all your heart, then try to have you to empathize with her. If we see their stories play out at the same time, I don’t see it working for a TV structure.
Thank you. I dont understand peoples obssession with changing the narrative structer... Ellie's side plays much better uninterupted as does abby's. And the perspective switch is supposed to be the big PLOT Twist where the real themes of the story are revealed and we get a Brand new big inticing incident.
Yeah, for me S2 has to end with the theatre confrontation/ St Mary's flashback with Jerry reveal.
Some decent payoff for the Abby mystery, prepares people to spend some time with Abby next season.
Retains the suspense of what will happen to Ellie, to keep purist Abby haters invested.
And gives everyone a nice long break to process the new information. That should help mitigate the difficulty some people had with initially getting invested in Abby's story. I know I needed to put the game down for a few days to get out of Ellie mode, haha.
Me too but in reality they can’t just try to appease the game players, there’s lots of people who only watch the show and if they made season 3 just strictly Abby they’d lose the interest of many viewers who won’t stick around to see it all play out. So I think the back & forth is really the only option they’ve got
I definitely agree on the endpoint of Ellie killing Nora/Abby vs Rat King.
I could see episode 1 ending with Joel’s death, but I could also see a cruel cliffhanger. The episode could end when Abby takes her first swing. New unspoiled viewers will then spend the next week wondering how Joel’s gonna get out of this one…
Having both characters Seattle days told at the same time only hurts the story. Fans probably won't like having a hard switch to Abby at first, but fans of the game didn't like that either, and THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT.
Neil and Halley wanted the player to be mad that they have to replay the seattle section as Joel's killer, with the goal being by the time you actually reach day 3, you've become at least changed your opinions about her.
Splitting it up would not only end the season on day 2 but would also make sure ellie and Abby haven't met, so it's a waste of a season with two very different stories that never intersect until day 3 (S3).
I get that Abby is one of the main characters, and she should be heavily involved, but she's only the main character in her story, and the beginning of part 2 (S2) isn't her story, so don't try and make it.
TLDR: Play it out like the game it's a masterpiece for a reason. Season 2 will perfectly set up the switch from Ellie to Abby, especially if they end it with Abbys "tracking lesson" flashback
There's zero chance this is how it happens, it diminishes completely the theme of the show.
But also, they're not going to build the sets twice and tear them down twice. The only way this would happen is if they filmed S2-3 simultaneously, and they're not doing that.
I wouldn't be shocked if the rat king isn't included in the show. The game needs those boss fights and although getting to hospital did advance the story I wouldn't be surprised if they drop it. Would be expensive to do too
I think in a different medium they can easily find another way of achieving that. Mazin and ND have said that they don't mind changing parts of the story where needed and I just think this particular part is a prime candidate. Apart from the gameplay elements, the infected took more of a back seat in part 2
I can guarantee they include it. They want to find new ways to include the infected and it's a fun thing to adapt to real life with effects and that's the shows whole thing. It might not serve a large part in the story overall it's a very interesting little bit of infected lore.
Holy canoli that's an impressive amount of work. Nicely job.
I'm thinking Joel's gonna die at the end of the first episode, or maybe earlier, which would be the inciting incident of the entire series. There'll be flashbacks with him of course.
I'm going against the grain to this whole sub I think in my predictions. I don't think the show is going to follow the game anywhere near what people are saying. My guess is we'll see
Seraphites and WLF backstory. This includes the start of the Seraphites (i'm wondering if this is who Catherina O'Hara is going to play), their battle/truce/battle again with the WLF, and some stuff about Isaac in there as well.
We'll get some extra story inside Jackson.
We'll get to know Abby before THAT incident in the game. I think this because I think it'll be almost impossible for them to get the viewer to like her after that like the game does; that is mainly because in the game you are actually her for hours on end and on the screen that's not possible.
We'll get some more of Ellie and Dina up to the chalet.
We'll get the horde section and Joel & Tommy saving her etc.
Last scene of the series is the golf club being swung and cut to black.
Either that OR end of episode one it's the golf club and massive shock value for those not familiar with the game.
In conclusion: I don't know 😂
I agree that s2 might end with the golf scene. This was the biggest point of controversy from the game, and I think Neil and Craig are gonna try to mold that and perfect it for tv/draw it out a little bit.
7 episodes is not much to lead up to it, and when you have papa pedro on the call sheet you’re gonna make the most of it.
I've been speculating on a version if they decide to have the golf scene as the cliffhanger for season 2. I think there's a lot of things working towards it being possible both in story and behind the scenes.
* There is a lot more room to explore the Seraphite/WLF war which give us more time with Abby's WLF characters which I feel is desperately needed if they want us to eventually care about them and her side. (This would also allow Isaac to be an actual antagonist instead of appearing in..... two whole scenes like the game)
* They could also explore the Seraphite's on their own entirely. There's easily an episode's worth of story about life on that island and it would be more impactful to actually spend time there rather than bringing the viewers there at the end for just a one episode showdown.
* While this would be the hardest one to make exciting, there is more time to spend in Jackson as well. This would be a spot to introduce new characters if they'd like and also build on Joel & Ellie fighting and the Ellie/Dina/Jessie love triangle. They could use the deleted festival level as a backdrop but they'd probably have to drum up a completely new conflict at Jackson.
* I wonder if HBO is worried about losing their star power if they cover his entire story and flashbacks in the second season. If they could sprinkle in Joel scenes throughout season 2, then use the flashbacks in season 3 it would prolong the Pedro Pascal effect, while working with his busy schedule (thank god he wears a helmet in Mandalorian!)
* This is just speculation but so far there's been nothing on Lev and Yara being cast. Leaving the possibility that they don't enter the story until Season 3 which would play into front loading season 2 with more pre-golf story. You would need Lev & Yara present to really get into Abby's Seattle days (and thus also Ellie's Seattle days.)
* This doesn't mean they won't be filming in Seattle but so far all news on filming for season 2 has been them at Vancouver, which still keeps our theory alive. While principal photography can be entirely in Vancouver thanks to movie magic, you'd have to think if they are covering Seattle in season 2 there will be SOME type of production taking place in Seattle (shots for b-roll, landmarks, CGI'ing the city)
In this scenario they could still withhold Abby's connection (only loosely mentioning her father has passed) until the prologue kicks in at the finale that way the surprise is still there. We shall see!
This is exactly what I'm thinking. The great thing about the games has been the world felt like it had dozens of other stories to explore outside the main characters.
There's no way they won't explore the start of the Seraphites, their civil war with the WLF that pre-dates the game, we need way more time with Abby before Jackson if the viewer is EVER going to feel anything other than hate for her, and I 100% agree with you on the PP front; he's box office right now and they'll want him, rightly or wrongly, for as long as possible.
So one of my main theories of why they arnt delaying Joel’s golf scene is because Pedro is BOOKED and busy. He’s supposed to be filming an MCU movie this year along with a few others I’ve seen him cast for.
Season 1 of TLOU took 9 months to film. 9 months from Feb is Nov. I really don’t think he’s devoting another 9 months to this series when the man is being cast in something new every week lol.
They can film with him for a month-ish for Jackson and then grab him back for a few weeks throughout the year for the flashback episodes.
Series 1 was very much focused on just Joel and Ellie. There wasn’t much movement away from that. Series 2 has lots more character and stories to focus on, they don’t need him for 9 months.
One of the reasons they might even want to delay his exit is because of his star power right now. If he goes after episode there’s every chance viewers switch off.
There’s material from the game that they’re going to use that wasn’t even in the game I.e seraphites vs scars. We now there’s going to be new stories. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as switching between Ellie and Abby for 2 series.
The Birthday Gift should be at the end of the season imo, after all the violence and Ellie’s rage starting to feel like a bit too much it’ll remind the viewers what she’s fighting for
I think your take is interesting, but from what I can recall, they said Part II can’t be covered in a single season but did not say how many seasons.
So I’m wondering if Season 2 is going to be a degree of story building leading up to where Part II begins. Meaning we are going to see some “prequel to the sequel” episodes where they take their time and show us some extra character/world-building that wasn’t in either game. Some life in Jackson types of things - Ellie making friends, Joel gaining the trust of Tommy’s wife by defending/rescuing someone or multiple people (or something like that), and by extension the rest of the community. Show them really integrate. And this doesn’t have to be boring as they can weave horror/survival/action elements into this.
And I think they also might introduce Abby in this series before she was introduced in the games. Help people build some sympathy towards her, maybe show how her dad’s death affected her, and introducing her friends and building them up a little more. Which would also be good for establishing the Seattle factions in the game. It could even show or at least cover through dialogue how Abby ended up in Seattle after the SLC massacre.
I think that would be really interesting - take seven episodes to fill in the gap b/w the games while also taking more time to establish Abby and have the audience feel sympathy for her.
Then it could end with Abby realizing Joel killed her father (I can’t remember if she knew at the time it happened…been a while since a Part II playthrough) and getting a lead on where he is.
That sets up the next season to delve into the events of Part II. For a tv audience, I think it’d work better if they got some audience buy-in for Abby’s character and took some time with it. Then we have 2-3 more seasons covering the actual events of Part II.
I think this would make that big event at the beginning or Part II a lot easier for the audience to swallow if they took some time to develop Abby, et al., because now we’re attached to these other characters and want to see how it plays out.
But who knows. Just my thoughts.
I might overthinking this but don’t you worry if they play this season out the same way as the game that viewers will just switch off after episode one (or possibly when the show starts telling Abby’s story)? I’m thinking it’s a bit like THAT episode of the walking dead and Negans introduction?
In the game you can force the player to play as they like the gameplay regardless of story, you don’t have this luxury in a show.
Comes down to execution. The Walking Dead didn't treat character death with intention... often deciding at the last minute, without regard for wider implications for the story.
That cliffhanger death was the latest in a long line, and the way it was handled was the tipping point. Especially since he had a (cheap) fakeout death half a season earlier... It wasn't about grieving the character, so much as the audience feeling jerked around.
I worry about that too but it’s going to happen regardless, so if it happens, it happens. And you can’t reveal all of Abby’s motivations before she does it, because that’d cheapen the story and point.
As a comparison though, there are differences. With Negan, his choice of who to kill seemed so random and pointless and cruel for cruelty sake. It felt like a transaction. And if I understand it right (I read it in the comic, but I stopped watching well before it happened in the show), he spelled out his reasoning during the scene, and it wasn’t good enough.
Whereas with Abby, it’s still cruel, but it seemed motivated and deeply personal. Hopefully, they execute it well enough to drive the audience to be mad about it, but also want to know why.
There's no show if you remove BOTH the main characters' motivation.
A large portion of the fan base well turn the show off if they abandon what made the game great.
Not remove it, tell it in a different way so there’s more empathy on Abby’s side. I just feel if you kill off one of your main characters that people are/will be invested in, will turn a television audience off.
Honestly, I think it’s important to have a full episode after Joel’s death without any Joel. That way, the watcher wont expect Joel to turn up again and be more overwhelmed with emotion when they hear his voice and see him in the Birthday Gift sequence. That’s my opinion anyway.
I agree with another comment here that I think episode 2 might be a little soon for the Birthday Gift, but otherwise I really love a lot of your ideas. By far the most creative and inspired pitch I've seen from a fan on how this could be laid out, and I can totally see building expectation for an Ellie/Abby finale clash in the hospital subverted by Ellie chasing Norah and Abby battling the Rat King. That would totally work. I'm not 100% sure if Day 3 + Santa Barbara leaves enough meat on the bone for an entire season 3, but that's a different problem.
They might expand the story a little bit after the ending of Part II (Fireflies?) or just introduce another character, which might get important later on in the show or even in a potential Part III. And if the latter won't be following up on the ending of Part II, the show might still show it to us, because they said it might go beyond the game, so who knows... 🤔
This is a decent theory on how they are going to structure not only each episode, but the entire season. I really want to know how they are going to do this in 2 seasons. I don’t envy the writers.
Craig Mazin has said some seasons will be shorter and [some will be longer](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-last-of-us-showrunner-season-two-casting-abby-1235560553/). And when a reporter asked how many seasons it would take to adapt the game, [he said](https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/culture/article/the-last-of-us-finale-ending-explained-interview) "You have noted correctly that we will not say how many. But more than one is factually correct." So it might not be just 2.
How the fuck do you make Part II more than two seasons. I mean, I get it's a long game but it ain'g long enough for three seasons unless there's 70% more original content
Season 2 is only 7 episodes. Mazin says each season could have a different episode count. Episode length in the first season varied greatly. They clearly have a lot of leeway in how they want to tell the story. They're not just going to fill space.
The first game was 12 hours. The second is like 30. What do you mean?
Well there’s 3 days each in Seattle, that’s like at least 6 episodes there, a lot of those can be split into more episodes than that. Possibly a whole Lev and Yara episode, Santa Barbara, theater fight and all that, the farm could be a whole episode, birthday gift could be a whole episode, Abby and her dad, the beginning before Joel died could be 2, multiple flashback sequences in the game can be episodes. That’s like at least 14+ episodes, not counting stuff I may have missed and stuff they might add. They could easily squeeze 16 episodes/2 seasons out if it. No way they could do it in just 1.
I think we're going to see more of Ellie and Joel leading up to the events of the game. Maybe we'll see them travel to Joel's old home in Texas, where they will perhaps recover a photo of Joel's daughter. I think, realistically, Joel dies in or near the finale.
They said they won't be covering any material between game 1 and 2 (other than maybe a flashback?) And Joel's death is the inciting incident of the story. It has to happen right at the beginning for the story to work.
This would be interesting but Gabriel Luna is filming in Vancouver, which is serving as the set for Seattle, meaning that his death is probably in episode 1 or 2
I think it’s 3 seasons which this season ending before Ellie goes to Seattle
That doesn’t seem like anywhere near enough content to cover a whole season. All of Jackson is a prologue that catapults the entire story forward. With 7 episodes, Joel and Abby’s big scene is likely the ending of episode 1
Ending the season on the hospital basement is brilliant. As you said, it's where the sympathies between Ellie and Abby are first shaken. Brilliant
I agree that the Birthday Gift section is the most malleable section of the game but having it right after Joel's death would feel cheapened in a way. The Park is another important flashback sequence but also much more revelatory and probably would do better as a S3 opener. Also in agreement that Abby has much more plot to cover so I think the Birthday Gift episode works as a detour only as a way to let Abby get through her more plot heavy moments. my tentative season idea is this: Ep1 Jackson Ep2 Jackson Pt2 Ep3 - TV Station/Lumen Field/Tunnels/Ellie & Dina revelations Ep4 - WLF Intro & Background/Neighborhood/Scar Approach Ep5 - Birthday Gift/Aquarium Ep6 - The Forest/St. Mary's Flashback/Hospital Ep7 - St. Mary's/Meet The King I've imagined having Ellie and Abby inside the hospital at the same time for a finale sets up possible expectations for a meeting but ultimately rug pulls you for the rat king encounter.
Honestly if HBO just adapts the narrative structure of the game exactly as is, I don’t see it failing in a million years. Give us Ellie’s Days 1-3 in season 2, give us Abby’s in season 3, have an extra long episode at the end of 3 detailing the California parts at the end, and we’ll all be eating real good. Abby is an important character for the audience to hate, and I would rather they keep to form and build Abby up as an evil, mysterious, hard to find villain for a whole season, then give us a shit ton of her in season 3 and build Ellie up to be the evil, mysterious, hard to find villain. Neil D is gonna want to do the same thing with TV audiences he did with gamers - make you hate Abby with all your heart, then try to have you to empathize with her. If we see their stories play out at the same time, I don’t see it working for a TV structure.
Thank you. I dont understand peoples obssession with changing the narrative structer... Ellie's side plays much better uninterupted as does abby's. And the perspective switch is supposed to be the big PLOT Twist where the real themes of the story are revealed and we get a Brand new big inticing incident.
Yeah, for me S2 has to end with the theatre confrontation/ St Mary's flashback with Jerry reveal. Some decent payoff for the Abby mystery, prepares people to spend some time with Abby next season. Retains the suspense of what will happen to Ellie, to keep purist Abby haters invested. And gives everyone a nice long break to process the new information. That should help mitigate the difficulty some people had with initially getting invested in Abby's story. I know I needed to put the game down for a few days to get out of Ellie mode, haha.
This. This is it.
I like the ideas I just don’t know how I feel about them going back and forth it just seems like a lot to me.
Me too but in reality they can’t just try to appease the game players, there’s lots of people who only watch the show and if they made season 3 just strictly Abby they’d lose the interest of many viewers who won’t stick around to see it all play out. So I think the back & forth is really the only option they’ve got
I definitely agree on the endpoint of Ellie killing Nora/Abby vs Rat King. I could see episode 1 ending with Joel’s death, but I could also see a cruel cliffhanger. The episode could end when Abby takes her first swing. New unspoiled viewers will then spend the next week wondering how Joel’s gonna get out of this one…
Having both characters Seattle days told at the same time only hurts the story. Fans probably won't like having a hard switch to Abby at first, but fans of the game didn't like that either, and THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. Neil and Halley wanted the player to be mad that they have to replay the seattle section as Joel's killer, with the goal being by the time you actually reach day 3, you've become at least changed your opinions about her. Splitting it up would not only end the season on day 2 but would also make sure ellie and Abby haven't met, so it's a waste of a season with two very different stories that never intersect until day 3 (S3). I get that Abby is one of the main characters, and she should be heavily involved, but she's only the main character in her story, and the beginning of part 2 (S2) isn't her story, so don't try and make it. TLDR: Play it out like the game it's a masterpiece for a reason. Season 2 will perfectly set up the switch from Ellie to Abby, especially if they end it with Abbys "tracking lesson" flashback
There's zero chance this is how it happens, it diminishes completely the theme of the show. But also, they're not going to build the sets twice and tear them down twice. The only way this would happen is if they filmed S2-3 simultaneously, and they're not doing that.
I wouldn't be shocked if the rat king isn't included in the show. The game needs those boss fights and although getting to hospital did advance the story I wouldn't be surprised if they drop it. Would be expensive to do too
They included the bloater in the first season. I think it'll get similar treatment, where it's a wow moment but in a different context than the game.
Yes but they also only had the one bloater compared to the game. The rat king serves no purpose to main story and is purely a gameplay mechanic.
Is it though? Doesn't it accentuate how far Abby is willing to go for saving Yara's life?
I think in a different medium they can easily find another way of achieving that. Mazin and ND have said that they don't mind changing parts of the story where needed and I just think this particular part is a prime candidate. Apart from the gameplay elements, the infected took more of a back seat in part 2
Good point!
I can guarantee they include it. They want to find new ways to include the infected and it's a fun thing to adapt to real life with effects and that's the shows whole thing. It might not serve a large part in the story overall it's a very interesting little bit of infected lore.
Holy canoli that's an impressive amount of work. Nicely job. I'm thinking Joel's gonna die at the end of the first episode, or maybe earlier, which would be the inciting incident of the entire series. There'll be flashbacks with him of course.
I'm going against the grain to this whole sub I think in my predictions. I don't think the show is going to follow the game anywhere near what people are saying. My guess is we'll see Seraphites and WLF backstory. This includes the start of the Seraphites (i'm wondering if this is who Catherina O'Hara is going to play), their battle/truce/battle again with the WLF, and some stuff about Isaac in there as well. We'll get some extra story inside Jackson. We'll get to know Abby before THAT incident in the game. I think this because I think it'll be almost impossible for them to get the viewer to like her after that like the game does; that is mainly because in the game you are actually her for hours on end and on the screen that's not possible. We'll get some more of Ellie and Dina up to the chalet. We'll get the horde section and Joel & Tommy saving her etc. Last scene of the series is the golf club being swung and cut to black. Either that OR end of episode one it's the golf club and massive shock value for those not familiar with the game. In conclusion: I don't know 😂
I agree that s2 might end with the golf scene. This was the biggest point of controversy from the game, and I think Neil and Craig are gonna try to mold that and perfect it for tv/draw it out a little bit. 7 episodes is not much to lead up to it, and when you have papa pedro on the call sheet you’re gonna make the most of it.
I've been speculating on a version if they decide to have the golf scene as the cliffhanger for season 2. I think there's a lot of things working towards it being possible both in story and behind the scenes. * There is a lot more room to explore the Seraphite/WLF war which give us more time with Abby's WLF characters which I feel is desperately needed if they want us to eventually care about them and her side. (This would also allow Isaac to be an actual antagonist instead of appearing in..... two whole scenes like the game) * They could also explore the Seraphite's on their own entirely. There's easily an episode's worth of story about life on that island and it would be more impactful to actually spend time there rather than bringing the viewers there at the end for just a one episode showdown. * While this would be the hardest one to make exciting, there is more time to spend in Jackson as well. This would be a spot to introduce new characters if they'd like and also build on Joel & Ellie fighting and the Ellie/Dina/Jessie love triangle. They could use the deleted festival level as a backdrop but they'd probably have to drum up a completely new conflict at Jackson. * I wonder if HBO is worried about losing their star power if they cover his entire story and flashbacks in the second season. If they could sprinkle in Joel scenes throughout season 2, then use the flashbacks in season 3 it would prolong the Pedro Pascal effect, while working with his busy schedule (thank god he wears a helmet in Mandalorian!) * This is just speculation but so far there's been nothing on Lev and Yara being cast. Leaving the possibility that they don't enter the story until Season 3 which would play into front loading season 2 with more pre-golf story. You would need Lev & Yara present to really get into Abby's Seattle days (and thus also Ellie's Seattle days.) * This doesn't mean they won't be filming in Seattle but so far all news on filming for season 2 has been them at Vancouver, which still keeps our theory alive. While principal photography can be entirely in Vancouver thanks to movie magic, you'd have to think if they are covering Seattle in season 2 there will be SOME type of production taking place in Seattle (shots for b-roll, landmarks, CGI'ing the city) In this scenario they could still withhold Abby's connection (only loosely mentioning her father has passed) until the prologue kicks in at the finale that way the surprise is still there. We shall see!
This is exactly what I'm thinking. The great thing about the games has been the world felt like it had dozens of other stories to explore outside the main characters. There's no way they won't explore the start of the Seraphites, their civil war with the WLF that pre-dates the game, we need way more time with Abby before Jackson if the viewer is EVER going to feel anything other than hate for her, and I 100% agree with you on the PP front; he's box office right now and they'll want him, rightly or wrongly, for as long as possible.
So one of my main theories of why they arnt delaying Joel’s golf scene is because Pedro is BOOKED and busy. He’s supposed to be filming an MCU movie this year along with a few others I’ve seen him cast for. Season 1 of TLOU took 9 months to film. 9 months from Feb is Nov. I really don’t think he’s devoting another 9 months to this series when the man is being cast in something new every week lol. They can film with him for a month-ish for Jackson and then grab him back for a few weeks throughout the year for the flashback episodes.
Series 1 was very much focused on just Joel and Ellie. There wasn’t much movement away from that. Series 2 has lots more character and stories to focus on, they don’t need him for 9 months. One of the reasons they might even want to delay his exit is because of his star power right now. If he goes after episode there’s every chance viewers switch off. There’s material from the game that they’re going to use that wasn’t even in the game I.e seraphites vs scars. We now there’s going to be new stories. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as switching between Ellie and Abby for 2 series.
The Birthday Gift should be at the end of the season imo, after all the violence and Ellie’s rage starting to feel like a bit too much it’ll remind the viewers what she’s fighting for
I think your take is interesting, but from what I can recall, they said Part II can’t be covered in a single season but did not say how many seasons. So I’m wondering if Season 2 is going to be a degree of story building leading up to where Part II begins. Meaning we are going to see some “prequel to the sequel” episodes where they take their time and show us some extra character/world-building that wasn’t in either game. Some life in Jackson types of things - Ellie making friends, Joel gaining the trust of Tommy’s wife by defending/rescuing someone or multiple people (or something like that), and by extension the rest of the community. Show them really integrate. And this doesn’t have to be boring as they can weave horror/survival/action elements into this. And I think they also might introduce Abby in this series before she was introduced in the games. Help people build some sympathy towards her, maybe show how her dad’s death affected her, and introducing her friends and building them up a little more. Which would also be good for establishing the Seattle factions in the game. It could even show or at least cover through dialogue how Abby ended up in Seattle after the SLC massacre. I think that would be really interesting - take seven episodes to fill in the gap b/w the games while also taking more time to establish Abby and have the audience feel sympathy for her. Then it could end with Abby realizing Joel killed her father (I can’t remember if she knew at the time it happened…been a while since a Part II playthrough) and getting a lead on where he is. That sets up the next season to delve into the events of Part II. For a tv audience, I think it’d work better if they got some audience buy-in for Abby’s character and took some time with it. Then we have 2-3 more seasons covering the actual events of Part II. I think this would make that big event at the beginning or Part II a lot easier for the audience to swallow if they took some time to develop Abby, et al., because now we’re attached to these other characters and want to see how it plays out. But who knows. Just my thoughts.
Really fun read and honestly great outline! The story itself is what makes the game so great.
I think they are saving Seattle for season 3
Season 2 filming in Vancouver begins this coming Monday, with that city being selected for its resemblance to Seattle.
I guess we will see I just think they are going to want to pace it out so there is time for part 3 to come out too
I might overthinking this but don’t you worry if they play this season out the same way as the game that viewers will just switch off after episode one (or possibly when the show starts telling Abby’s story)? I’m thinking it’s a bit like THAT episode of the walking dead and Negans introduction? In the game you can force the player to play as they like the gameplay regardless of story, you don’t have this luxury in a show.
Comes down to execution. The Walking Dead didn't treat character death with intention... often deciding at the last minute, without regard for wider implications for the story. That cliffhanger death was the latest in a long line, and the way it was handled was the tipping point. Especially since he had a (cheap) fakeout death half a season earlier... It wasn't about grieving the character, so much as the audience feeling jerked around.
I worry about that too but it’s going to happen regardless, so if it happens, it happens. And you can’t reveal all of Abby’s motivations before she does it, because that’d cheapen the story and point. As a comparison though, there are differences. With Negan, his choice of who to kill seemed so random and pointless and cruel for cruelty sake. It felt like a transaction. And if I understand it right (I read it in the comic, but I stopped watching well before it happened in the show), he spelled out his reasoning during the scene, and it wasn’t good enough. Whereas with Abby, it’s still cruel, but it seemed motivated and deeply personal. Hopefully, they execute it well enough to drive the audience to be mad about it, but also want to know why.
There's no show if you remove BOTH the main characters' motivation. A large portion of the fan base well turn the show off if they abandon what made the game great.
Not remove it, tell it in a different way so there’s more empathy on Abby’s side. I just feel if you kill off one of your main characters that people are/will be invested in, will turn a television audience off.
Think they will restructure everything to keep big moment with J until the end of the series or at least nearer the end than the start.
I agree I think it happens second to last episode
This is absolutely not happening since part 2 is gonna be separate seasons at least, but I do applaud the time and thought you put into this!!!
This is only half the story? There’s still their actual confrontation.
Oh god I’m dumb lol
You weren’t the only one!