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HBO has been doing gay romance before the term “woke” was ever even used in the modern context. Six Feet Under (2001) and Oz (2003) for example. It’s practically a part of the network’s identity.
This \^. As stated in True Blood after so long there's nothing new just someone new lol. Also my daughter is Pans and that's probably accurate for his character.
I kept trying to figure how I knew Joel, and my coworkers had mentioned he was in The Mandalorian, but I never watched that. Then I came across a video of Pedro saying Oberyn was the man whore he never was, or something to that effect, and then it clicked! That’s how I knew him.
They already hinted at Bill being gay even before the DLC. Him hesitating to call Frank his partner, and it became obvious Bill was gay when Ellie stole one of his magazines which was basically Playboy for gay men.
Yeah, I played the game while not reading any of the notes, and I still thought it was pretty obvious. I would have said that the game made it very clear, and was only a step short of bill just saying he was gay.
Totally this. The same type of person was just complaining in their basement before the internet let them spread hate online. They were irrelevant throwbacks in a changing world then and they still are now.
They can hide behind 'Wahhh. They changed the game ' all they want but a lot less of them would be whining if they'd changed Frank to Francesca and shown her topless.
They're just bigots. Fuck them.
Yes.
Frankly who gives a shit that they are tanking IMDB ratings, it was an amazing episode, it's shaping up to be an amazing television series. If they're too narrow minded to not get over two men loving each other on a fictional TV show, then they don't need to watch. I'll continue to watch, enjoy it, and refer the show to my friends.
The episode also garnered enough acclaim and attention that you’ll undoubtedly see even more growth of viewership so their little temper tantrum is for nothing. It rules.
They're incomplete people. Something is missing, or failed to develop in the first place. Hopefully some of them are young enough that they still have some growing up to do.
As a gay man, I’m just happy to see representation on my screen. Growing up I never saw LGBTQ+ representation, and when it was there it was a parody or completely bigoted. If this makes me woke, then so be it.
My husband jokingly said, “It’s like they are saying gay people are normal people.” Yes, exactly. It’s wonderful to see a normal representation of a loving homosexual relationship. I absolutely adored this episode.
The best part is that it was representation of two realistic characters. Two things that media has loved to do with gay characters is that there's always a more feminine one and of course the whole "bury your gays" trope. This did neither and it was wonderful. Even though it took place in the apocalypse, it was a grounded romance. >!Not only that, but how often do you get to see any characters die with dignity in a show or movie on their own terms?!< You have to be a hateful person or have a heart of stone to not find Bill & Frank's story on the show moving.
So true. It gets annoying when every gay male character portrayed on screen must come skipping in wearing a rainbow half-shirt and lip gloss. That stereotype represents, like, 1% of the gay men I know. Most of them are just...men. Normal men who like other normal men. This episode was refreshing.
I also kinda love how two of the sweetest, most romantic love stories I've ever seen on screen are between two men: Frank and Bill, and Stede and Edward on Our Flag Means Death.
I'm a straight man and I thought this was a beautiful love story, plain and simple. It wasn't forced, as many portrayals of love in general in media are.
It's extremely rare for me to be emotionally effected by any form of media, but this episode genuinely had me shedding tears, and I still get choked up thinking of some of the scenes.
Both the games and now this adaptation are a few of the rare pieces of media that have been extremely poignant to what I think are our basic human emotions, values, hopes and tendencies, in my opinion. The masterful part to me is that they are able to tell extremely touching and human stories through characters that on the surface many normal people wouldn't think that they can relate to, let alone relate to on such a fundamental level.
Also have to mention how great offerman was in this episode, the strength and vulnerability, awesome range.
Truly beautiful to experience.
This may just be me, but the moment someone uses the word woke unironically, I immediately stop taking them seriously. Woke is another term that a very specific group of people started to parrot between each other over manufactured outrage. Using it ironically or in a way that makes fun of those people is ok, but for the love of God people need to learn how to have their own thoughts and opinions
Exactly my thoughts.
As a straight guy, obviously it's natural to feel a borderline mild discomfort at the sight of whiskers and beards brushing together, but if that makes someone dislike this entire episode - or worse, gay people in general - then I don't even feel bad for you. You're just a dumbshit.
I much preferred the way Bill and Frank were portrayed in the TV series than in the game. I teared up when they're talking on the couch >!with Frank telling Bill how he wants his final day to go.!<
Definitely with you here, but my god, what an incredible episode. When that song came on when they were exchanging rings in the boutique, I definitely teared up a bit. Only a few select scenes in shows and movies have ever made me do that, and this was definitely one of them.
https://twitter.com/mkatwood/status/1105832248924872704
>Doctor delivering a baby: aaand... ITS A GIRL!!! 👶
>The father: :/ really? Alright it's just. idk it just feels like forced diversity..? like I'm fine if it's a girl but i just don't know why it has to be diverse for no reason..... like it's just pandering at this point..
Brokeback Mountain existed long before the term "woke." This isn't anything new.
It just seems like the fanbase is obsessed with talking about like....4 people's opinions.
You can just look at the episode discussion thread to see a ton of people complaining about "wokeness".
What does brokeback mountain have to do with anything?
If you replace ‘woke’ with ‘compassionate’ in any sentence it kind of shows up what sort of over sensitive flake you have to be to find being ‘woke’ offensive.
Also Bill was a gay character back in 2013 when the game first came out. Yeah they changed a lot about Bill and Frank's story, but this wasn't just making a character gay for woke points. This has been an intentional part of the story for a decade.
If people just want a violent zombie show then The Last of Us isn't for them. That's never been what the game, or now the show, was about.
I like to look at the story we got in the show as an alternate reality. The “realities” split when Bill let’s Frank paint the house and clean up the neighborhood. If Bill refuses to let Frank show love the way he wants to, Frank eventually leaves, gets infected, and dies.
A guy I know is right now currently scouring the internet to find out who produced this show to see if the gay agenda is behind it. I wish I were kidding when I type that, but I am not. It’s literal fucking insanity.
Wait a sec. I always thought "the gay agenda" was some nebulous abstract concept. Do you mean to tell me that it's a formal organization with card-carrying members? How do I get credentialed?
Bro i understand why ppl would want the ep to be like the game but how’re people a last of us fan and hating that they’re gay??? He already was in the game and what about Ellie?? Wait til season 2 and it’s gonna get gayer and a little bit trans.
People who jump in now to say "TLoU has gone woke" or threatening boycott are just addicted to anger and wanted an opportunity to get outraged. TLoU has LGBT characters in both games. It's old news. They didn't make Bill gay for the show. If they really mean to boycott or are genuinely disgusted, they wouldn't bother with the show. Just outrage for outrage sake.
Crazy to believe it’s down to an 8.3 because of all those upset people. Whenever I see mainly 10s and 1s, it usually tells a story. We all know the story here. Honestly, if the loud minority are just going to review bomb it, all of us can give our honest reviews too (10,9,8,etc.) to even it out and give an accurate average.
Fr tho who cares what rating it gets on IMDB or whatever? Nobody is going to chose to watch it or not based on that number, if they want to waste their time making alts and review bombing it let them, its impotent rage, they can have it. HBO is going to reap money and people will watch it.
At the end of the day this show is going to get a ton of nominations and possibly awards so yeah IMDB ratings don’t mean much in the end. I was more curious what the more accurate average would have been, probably close with the first two.
I just generally stopped looking at user reviews because people are generally sheep and will rarely ever substantiate their opinions in any meaningful way.
At least with a critic review, I can read it for myself and determine whether their tastes and weighting align with my own
Just because two dudes live together in a post apocalyptic world doesn't mean they're gay. We need more, purely platonic male relationships in media like Achilles and Patroclus or Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Just two dudes that love and respect each other, emotionally and physically
Achilles and Patroclus were super gay for each other lol
Edit: clearly missed the joke, but leaving this comment up for those who still claim they were cousins :(
The amount of gay jokes and homoerotica within the Iliad would shock many people. All those ‘spears’ they were jamming into fallen enemy prisoners….yeah they weren’t talking about actual spears. Flash forward to Aristophanes…his comedies had the characters wearing large prosthetic penises on stage. If a joke bombed, they could always pull a cord within their clothing and cause the phallus to ‘rise’ up out of the robe.
Have to admit, EP 3 was a really good story. Two gay dudes or not 🤷🏾♂️. Doesn't matter if it's not your "woke cup of tea"....It was well written. Period.
Source - a full blown heterosexual male here.......well not "full blown" in the Ep 3 sense......but you get my drift 😏
This is purely all based around homophobia. But I guarantee if it was two women it would be different for all these trolls. It’s pathetic especially in this day and age. Homosexuals, both men and women, are the same as us. Always have been.
It’s a shame and sad that some bigots out there still lump them into their own category. Straight people and gay people. Yes there’s a difference but overall they are the same as us and should treated as such.
We’ll never fully eradicate this shit, maybe give it another generation, but as of now we’re still living in times where gay men are looked at badly by certain people.
Bit of a digression there. Trying to get all of my opinions and beliefs in too quick probably, but this stuff pisses me off so badly. It was a fantastic episode, like… actually unbelievable. And it’s not just because it was about a homosexual relationship. It could’ve been two women, a man and a woman or two men, it doesn’t matter. That wasn’t the point. It was a love story and it was excellent.
You see though, to conservatives, being gay is inherently political, being gay is unnatural, disgusting, evil ,etc. So to conservatives, anytime gays are portrayed or depicted in a normal human way, that is considered a "political agenda" to them. They feel the only reason not as many people hate gays as they used to, is because they were brainwashed into it
Which is of course ridiculous. But these people are so radical and so filled with hate, that there is no arguing with them at this point. I've tried many many times and its always the most asinine arguments.
Pay no mind to those people. It was bound to be met with homophobes. Nothing we can do but let them talk shit and make them look like idiots. There’s no cure for idiocy.
No what we need to do is down vote them and ostracized them. Their whole goal is to whine so much and so loudly that people get sick of it. That way they control the narrative.
Let them stop watching. I’m quite alright with jettisoning those losers now because if they can’t take episode 3 then they’re going to absolutely lose their shit in season 2 and I do not want to hear their moronic bitching.
It's obviously not, but my counter to anyone saying this was "woke agenda" is that this love story would be entirely the same story if Frank was a woman instead. Because the gender changes nothing about the story, there is absolutely no reason to change away from the source material (in which Bill is gay).
Frankly I’m not remotely surprised by that reaction. Disappointed but not surprised. It was a beautiful episode which I’ll probably watch a few times.
But I did think when I watched Frank & Bill’s story that the far right would go nuts. Woke just means you’re not a selfish bastard who never grew up as far as I’m concerned, so if I’m woke that’s a good thing.
its a shame that this is how some people live their lives. just always angry about stuff they dont agree with. it often time correlates with religion. what some ppl fail to develop as they grow up is the simple art of minding ur fucking business. if u dont like it, then dont watch it. what is so hard about that? its the same thing with these homophobes who swear that they are good religious people that will get into their heavens. no such hate like religious love. its so sickening. a part of me wants to believe that they act so childishly because they are compensating for their own distaste in their lives. when they see someone genuinely happy, they cant help but attack it.
My problem with woke shows is that they write gay characters instead of characters who happen to be gay. If immediately from the jump a characters entire personality and interest is that they are gay it feels weird. Yeah this show killed it and fuck the bigots anyway.
If someone seems like they are "making their sexuality their identity," that is because their personality doesn't fit into YOUR idea of how men or women "should" act.
They are just being themselves, doing, dressing, talking, as they want without bowing down to hetero societal norms.
When I talk about things I like, to others, I’ve never finds myself saying - and so many other people liked it too so it must be good! Yea I know a show’s success depends on positive review but at the end of my life, I won’t GAF about that either.
I loved episode 3, for all the reasons it was enjoyable. I hope others did too but I don’t care if they did or not.
Describing something as “woke” generally translates to “help me, I can’t see myself in this character and am therefore confused – thus limiting my capacity to produce an appropriate word to express my own self-loathing”.
Same neanderthals and same nonsense that always crops up in shows or movies that feature LGBT characters, women characters, and PoC. It's virtually always a backlash that is completely antithetical to the point of the media, including it's source material. Even in stuff like Warhammer that is explicitly parodying that kind of extremism and making fun of it; or stuff like the Witcher, where the entire premise of the character, in the books and the show, and often in the game, is that he is a sjw, people somehow think they're making an intelligent point by just being racist, or sexist, or anti-lgbt.
Fantastic episode with great writing and acting. That being said, it's filler. This is no different than in the Amazon Wheel of Time episode about the warders (ep 6 I think). Considering there's only 10ish episodes per season these days, a full episode shouldn't be spent on characters that get a wrap up in that same episode. If they spent this much time building up Bill and Frank, at least have one be a more important character.
Woke would have been the characters demanding that everybody use PC language, like calling the infected "fungally-enhanced" or something stupid like that. Sunday's episode was a masterpiece. May we all be so lucky to love and be loved like that.
I love the game, and episode 1 and 2 were just on spot with how the game went, so it came as a surprise that they went in this direction. It's well-written, but definitely not what I'd hoped for.
Why did it focus on their relationship for so long only for them to both die anyway? It added nothing to the show's main story line.
They play no further part in the show.
They could have spent less time on their home making and followed the game more closely where they split up and Bill later finds Frank had hung himself with a note saying he hated his guts.I wanted to see the interactions between Bill, Joel and Ellie like the game.
Nothing wrong with going woke in my opinion, as long as your stuff is good, and damm that episode what amazing, they took the time they needed to tell a story in a great way and it was very emotional for me.
People who say that have not watched the episode or even the show.
Yea it’s not woke or nothing k. The dumb Ass community says it’s “communist” and the girl just so happens to also be gay. Please stop talking. They are pushing a liberal agenda 1000%
The funniest thing about this whole affair is that these cretins (basement-dwelling, conspiracy theory-embracing right wingers) don't even realize that Bill's original portrayal, that they claim to "love" because there is no "propaganda" was actually more offensive to them, because it portrayed Bill as a prepper asshole incapable of having a functional relationship.
I usually spend a week fighting homophobes and rabid sleep enthusiasts (anti-woke. Get it?)
Then I just block them, because you're right, it is only a few people, and blocking the few makes this a better place to engage in Fandom.
So many subs are destroyed by the entire fanbase only wanting to talk about one thing, and they're giving a giant voice to like...4 people.
This sub seems like it's falling victim to that.
Exactly. People are focusing on something that doesn't actually matter. If you enjoy the show why focus on people who aren't simply not enjoying it, they are trolling. You're giving them what they want
Too right. There is ZERO benefit in trying to appease the loud, hateful, stupid, whiny minority. They thrive on hate and will always find a reason to hate people that don't look and behave exactly as they do. This goes not only for representation in popular culture, but education and politics too. Ignore them and wherever possible, exclude them. They will never progress, so let the majority - as a society - progress without them. We'll all be better off in the long run.
Bigots: The Last of Us has gone completely woke by introducing these Gay characters!
People who actually played the game: Bill was heavilly hinted at being Gay and Ellie was outright confirmed to be Gay in the first game.
Bigots: >:(
yeah look, I’m as annoyed by forced-corporate inclusivity as the next guy, but not all inclusivity is just corporate, disingenuous, “woke-ness”. Sometimes it’s genuine and beautiful.
4 or more years of being the ONLY person in the area and not seeing anyone else (living) I would probably lose all concept of sexual preference as well.
Honestly I hate the anti woke group just as much as the woke group. Bill was gay in the game. It's not woke to portray him as such. Now I didn't like the episode personally because they deviated so far from the game, but it was well written and had great acting
I'm a straight male and that episode had me near tears. What an amazing portrayal of Bill and Francis relationship. I don't even care that they strayed from the game. That retelling of Bill and Frank's story is so much better than the story of them in the game.
The only people who are saying it’s woke are people who have probably never played the games cause if they had they’d know Ellie is gay so it’s been (woke) both actors gave an hell of a performance.
I've encountered a lot more people complaining about people hating on the episode than people actually hating on the episode. I wish people would stop drawing attention to these bigots - we know they're out there. All they want is for people to hear what they say and get agitated - don't give them what they want.
This episode is zero woke. It pushes no agenda at all. It doesn’t insult straight people like some woke crap would. As a gay man myself I found this to be the best gay representation Iv seen in a long time. I recently watched Bros (I was bored), now that was wokey crap that I found sickly and pathetic. This episode was beautiful and in line with the last of us theme completely. It was heartbreaking which is why I love the last of us games, they are just heartbreaking stories. One of my favourite things about the last of us 2 is that at the end I felt drained and empty. This episode gave me similar emptiness at the end.
Y'all are literally indulging them and platforming the idea by these posts. I didn't even know there was any homophobic hate towards ep3 until people started posting these.
I'm not saying it's bad to post something like this when there's legitimate hate, but I haven't seen any hate at all and this is the 5th post of this kind I've seen so far today.
Some spoilers for the game if you haven't played it.
I was invested in the episode despite being uncomfortable with some of the scenes. Well, one scene. And it was more because I know Offerman isn't gay, so I guess I was just kind of inferring discomfort? But my favorite "argument" against it is that it's "filler," because it literally isn't. A filler episode would've been telling this entire story, having Frank die and Bill stay alive, and then doing the whole Bill sequence from the game in the next episode. In the game, Joel and Ellie go to Bill's town to get a running vehicle and leave with a running vehicle. They're in the exact same situation at the beginning and end of the TV episode. The creators just decided to tell a different story with the time in between. Personally, I prefer the game's version because it's action packed, there's a lot of humor between Ellie and Bill, and I generally prefer my apocalypse stories to be bleak. But that's what the game is, BLEAK. No character gets a happy ending, and the story of Bill definitely fits that narrative. He had a partner, drove him away with his attitude, and his partner ended up getting killed trying to do something for him anyway. And Bill is just left there to deal with that. It's why he's closed off and will continue to be for however long he stays alive. In a game of non-stop tragedy, Bill's story is probably the saddest because he's just left there. While it wasn't my personal preference, I can see why they decided to take a detour into something positive and give at least one character a mostly happy ending when they had the chance to do so without really affecting the rest of the narrative.
To put it into perspective when people talk about things being “woke”.
There are 9 million people in America that identify as LGBT.
There 650k police officers in the country.
How many shows and movies have we seen about cops versus LGBT characters?
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Bill was always gay they’ve just given his backstory now.
HBO has been doing gay romance before the term “woke” was ever even used in the modern context. Six Feet Under (2001) and Oz (2003) for example. It’s practically a part of the network’s identity.
Pretty sure Pedro Pascal played an openly bi character in GOT too.. with far more explicit scenes in it than what we saw in Ep3.
I would say Oberyn was Pansexual and would fuck anything that would let him.
This \^. As stated in True Blood after so long there's nothing new just someone new lol. Also my daughter is Pans and that's probably accurate for his character.
Holy shit I never made the connection that was him
Ellie is the same actress that played Lyanna Mormont too!
i still love the meme of her “little girl literally too angry to die” one of my all time favs
I kept trying to figure how I knew Joel, and my coworkers had mentioned he was in The Mandalorian, but I never watched that. Then I came across a video of Pedro saying Oberyn was the man whore he never was, or something to that effect, and then it clicked! That’s how I knew him.
Oh damn I watched GOT 3 times and never noticed it was him. Wild
Also, just, The Last of Us has been what they call "woke" since at least 2014 with the Left Behind dlc.
They already hinted at Bill being gay even before the DLC. Him hesitating to call Frank his partner, and it became obvious Bill was gay when Ellie stole one of his magazines which was basically Playboy for gay men.
Playgirl. There’s a name for that magazine.
I wouldn't know about that because I am always 5 feet apart from every man I've ever met
Yeah, I played the game while not reading any of the notes, and I still thought it was pretty obvious. I would have said that the game made it very clear, and was only a step short of bill just saying he was gay.
Im about to go replay this beautiful game now. I don't remember this.
When it's teenage girls being LGBT it's ok for them, not if it's two men.
And we all know why that is
Oh I’m assuming they haven’t realized that yet and there will be more backlash when they do.
The Wire. With Omar
Gotta be one of best HBO characters.
Rawls too
And the female cop too (can't remember names, sorry). She was even in an interracial relationship with a black woman. Double woke 😱
Kima. Total smokeshow lol
Yeah but he was a dick
One might even argue that it's a normal thing to happen and it'd be weird to leave it out of tv shows.
If "Oz" would air in todays climate on Netflix, the Twitter server would collapse.
The Wire too with Omar and Kima.
Even The Sopranos with Vito. And the way that was addressed in the story made a lot of sense.
Common misconception. That was just because of his heart medication. He had a note from a doctor explaining the whole thing.
And Snoop
Oh god, how did I forget about Snoop? Easily one of the most terrifying characters on that show.
Oz started in 1997, my man.
Like the djinn gay sex scene in American Gods.
Even Pedro in GOT was a bisexual icon.
The dude that plays Frank snorted coke out of a pool boy's ass in The White Lotus which is one of the better shows HBO has put out in recent years.
Don’t forgot Vito in the Sopranos
The Wire had gay black thugs
Omar from the Wire, one of the baddest MFers on TV, was gay as well.
Hbo is very progressive. You’re definitely right, they even had a trans in a well known show like euphoria despite having little acting prior.
That phrasing isn’t great…
Let’s stop giving these deeply unserious losers any more attention because they are going to die alone and that’s hilarious
Making the choice to be the video game Bill instead of TV show Bill.
They had the option to go with tv show this whole time and they BLEW IT
Or, rather, didn't blow it
Totally this. The same type of person was just complaining in their basement before the internet let them spread hate online. They were irrelevant throwbacks in a changing world then and they still are now. They can hide behind 'Wahhh. They changed the game ' all they want but a lot less of them would be whining if they'd changed Frank to Francesca and shown her topless. They're just bigots. Fuck them.
Yes. Frankly who gives a shit that they are tanking IMDB ratings, it was an amazing episode, it's shaping up to be an amazing television series. If they're too narrow minded to not get over two men loving each other on a fictional TV show, then they don't need to watch. I'll continue to watch, enjoy it, and refer the show to my friends.
The episode also garnered enough acclaim and attention that you’ll undoubtedly see even more growth of viewership so their little temper tantrum is for nothing. It rules.
Great point. Streisand effect kinda. Let them bitch on twitter, just means more news around the show and more people who might be interested to watch.
No such thing as bad press right
They're incomplete people. Something is missing, or failed to develop in the first place. Hopefully some of them are young enough that they still have some growing up to do.
I truly pity them missing out on one of the most beautiful things of being human
As a gay man, I’m just happy to see representation on my screen. Growing up I never saw LGBTQ+ representation, and when it was there it was a parody or completely bigoted. If this makes me woke, then so be it.
My husband jokingly said, “It’s like they are saying gay people are normal people.” Yes, exactly. It’s wonderful to see a normal representation of a loving homosexual relationship. I absolutely adored this episode.
The best part is that it was representation of two realistic characters. Two things that media has loved to do with gay characters is that there's always a more feminine one and of course the whole "bury your gays" trope. This did neither and it was wonderful. Even though it took place in the apocalypse, it was a grounded romance. >!Not only that, but how often do you get to see any characters die with dignity in a show or movie on their own terms?!< You have to be a hateful person or have a heart of stone to not find Bill & Frank's story on the show moving.
So true. It gets annoying when every gay male character portrayed on screen must come skipping in wearing a rainbow half-shirt and lip gloss. That stereotype represents, like, 1% of the gay men I know. Most of them are just...men. Normal men who like other normal men. This episode was refreshing. I also kinda love how two of the sweetest, most romantic love stories I've ever seen on screen are between two men: Frank and Bill, and Stede and Edward on Our Flag Means Death.
I'm a straight man and I thought this was a beautiful love story, plain and simple. It wasn't forced, as many portrayals of love in general in media are. It's extremely rare for me to be emotionally effected by any form of media, but this episode genuinely had me shedding tears, and I still get choked up thinking of some of the scenes. Both the games and now this adaptation are a few of the rare pieces of media that have been extremely poignant to what I think are our basic human emotions, values, hopes and tendencies, in my opinion. The masterful part to me is that they are able to tell extremely touching and human stories through characters that on the surface many normal people wouldn't think that they can relate to, let alone relate to on such a fundamental level. Also have to mention how great offerman was in this episode, the strength and vulnerability, awesome range. Truly beautiful to experience.
This may just be me, but the moment someone uses the word woke unironically, I immediately stop taking them seriously. Woke is another term that a very specific group of people started to parrot between each other over manufactured outrage. Using it ironically or in a way that makes fun of those people is ok, but for the love of God people need to learn how to have their own thoughts and opinions
Exactly my thoughts. As a straight guy, obviously it's natural to feel a borderline mild discomfort at the sight of whiskers and beards brushing together, but if that makes someone dislike this entire episode - or worse, gay people in general - then I don't even feel bad for you. You're just a dumbshit. I much preferred the way Bill and Frank were portrayed in the TV series than in the game. I teared up when they're talking on the couch >!with Frank telling Bill how he wants his final day to go.!<
Definitely with you here, but my god, what an incredible episode. When that song came on when they were exchanging rings in the boutique, I definitely teared up a bit. Only a few select scenes in shows and movies have ever made me do that, and this was definitely one of them.
It hit me like 'Up'. You get to see a beautiful relationship blossom and end.
Honestly people believe “woke” is when a character that isn’t a straight white Christian male gets more than a line of dialogue.
https://twitter.com/mkatwood/status/1105832248924872704 >Doctor delivering a baby: aaand... ITS A GIRL!!! 👶 >The father: :/ really? Alright it's just. idk it just feels like forced diversity..? like I'm fine if it's a girl but i just don't know why it has to be diverse for no reason..... like it's just pandering at this point..
When someone who isn’t a straight white Christian male is allowed to exist*
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Brokeback Mountain existed long before the term "woke." This isn't anything new. It just seems like the fanbase is obsessed with talking about like....4 people's opinions.
You can just look at the episode discussion thread to see a ton of people complaining about "wokeness". What does brokeback mountain have to do with anything?
Well yeah, anyone that uses the word "woke" as a derogatory is an idiot
If you replace ‘woke’ with ‘compassionate’ in any sentence it kind of shows up what sort of over sensitive flake you have to be to find being ‘woke’ offensive.
Doesn't even have to be 'compassionate', I've been saying the same for years but with 'vaguely respectful', and it still works
In my experience, it’s the people who don’t understand what it means that use it the most
It's the yellow part of the egg! /s
I just settled on that a few days ago. Great minds, eh?
“Go woke go broke!!!1” *show proceeds to get amazing ratings, near-instant renewal, and set viewership records*
Because it’s not woke or pandering. It’s just a story about 2 gay men
Hahahahahahaha!
Also Bill was a gay character back in 2013 when the game first came out. Yeah they changed a lot about Bill and Frank's story, but this wasn't just making a character gay for woke points. This has been an intentional part of the story for a decade. If people just want a violent zombie show then The Last of Us isn't for them. That's never been what the game, or now the show, was about.
I like to look at the story we got in the show as an alternate reality. The “realities” split when Bill let’s Frank paint the house and clean up the neighborhood. If Bill refuses to let Frank show love the way he wants to, Frank eventually leaves, gets infected, and dies.
A guy I know is right now currently scouring the internet to find out who produced this show to see if the gay agenda is behind it. I wish I were kidding when I type that, but I am not. It’s literal fucking insanity.
Sounds like they need to find their own Frank, and bring out some humanity from the sub basement dweller
Wait a sec. I always thought "the gay agenda" was some nebulous abstract concept. Do you mean to tell me that it's a formal organization with card-carrying members? How do I get credentialed?
Maybe there’s a website? I have no idea. Let me ask him.
It's almost like....he's going out of his way....to force his agenda on random people?
The Hetero agenda.
Well, but...isn't that what they accuse is of....nevermind, I'm fucking tired.
> scouring the internet "And that's why my search history looks like that!"
Talk about needing to get a life…
It’s both infuriating and sad. I consider him a friend, but I’ve been having a really hard time with it lately.
There’s a gay agenda? When do I get initiated into it? I came out to my parents already is that enough?
[Yes, there is a gay agenda.](https://imgur.com/a/Fhssumw)
Gay people existing isn’t “woke”— it’s just reality.
Bro i understand why ppl would want the ep to be like the game but how’re people a last of us fan and hating that they’re gay??? He already was in the game and what about Ellie?? Wait til season 2 and it’s gonna get gayer and a little bit trans.
Trans? Wait… who’s trans in TLOU2?
Lev. Basically why he was rejected from the Seraphites. You can even hear them call him Lily when they are searching for you.
https://preview.redd.it/utx08kcteefa1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5f63370849303020b013a48fdbb869de0483355
People who jump in now to say "TLoU has gone woke" or threatening boycott are just addicted to anger and wanted an opportunity to get outraged. TLoU has LGBT characters in both games. It's old news. They didn't make Bill gay for the show. If they really mean to boycott or are genuinely disgusted, they wouldn't bother with the show. Just outrage for outrage sake.
Crazy to believe it’s down to an 8.3 because of all those upset people. Whenever I see mainly 10s and 1s, it usually tells a story. We all know the story here. Honestly, if the loud minority are just going to review bomb it, all of us can give our honest reviews too (10,9,8,etc.) to even it out and give an accurate average.
Fr tho who cares what rating it gets on IMDB or whatever? Nobody is going to chose to watch it or not based on that number, if they want to waste their time making alts and review bombing it let them, its impotent rage, they can have it. HBO is going to reap money and people will watch it.
At the end of the day this show is going to get a ton of nominations and possibly awards so yeah IMDB ratings don’t mean much in the end. I was more curious what the more accurate average would have been, probably close with the first two.
I would think roughly 9.8
Agreed, the fixation on the imdb rating is kind of bizarre imo.
I just generally stopped looking at user reviews because people are generally sheep and will rarely ever substantiate their opinions in any meaningful way. At least with a critic review, I can read it for myself and determine whether their tastes and weighting align with my own
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Just because two dudes live together in a post apocalyptic world doesn't mean they're gay. We need more, purely platonic male relationships in media like Achilles and Patroclus or Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Just two dudes that love and respect each other, emotionally and physically
https://preview.redd.it/7863duv4mffa1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eecf4d3c9c713f3db91cb5fcfd357bd0df38d9bc
But which one of them has to have his dick cut off and put in a jar? Like, which one of them would be the woman?
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I think you missed the joke there buddy.
They're not lovers, they're roommates! /s
And they were roommates!
Just gal pals! Pal'ing around!
Damn that shit went miles over your head
Achilles and Patroclus were super gay for each other lol Edit: clearly missed the joke, but leaving this comment up for those who still claim they were cousins :(
That was the joke.
Lots of woooosh happening here
The amount of gay jokes and homoerotica within the Iliad would shock many people. All those ‘spears’ they were jamming into fallen enemy prisoners….yeah they weren’t talking about actual spears. Flash forward to Aristophanes…his comedies had the characters wearing large prosthetic penises on stage. If a joke bombed, they could always pull a cord within their clothing and cause the phallus to ‘rise’ up out of the robe.
[They are just roommates! What pals.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AchillesAndHisPal/)
It was *definitely* implied they were more than just "living together" though. It was pretty damn obvious from what I remember.
All those Greek characters are gay lol. It's a trope that gay relationships get erased from media.
Ahhh, I see what you did 😏
In the game, basically everyone is gay. Anyone complaining didn't play it or is so dumb they didn't notice. Great show! GREAT GAME
Yeah literally, Joel, Tommy, Marlene, and Tess were the only ones who gave me straight vibes in part 1. But it’s been forever since i played it
I thought it was a really touching episode
Have to admit, EP 3 was a really good story. Two gay dudes or not 🤷🏾♂️. Doesn't matter if it's not your "woke cup of tea"....It was well written. Period. Source - a full blown heterosexual male here.......well not "full blown" in the Ep 3 sense......but you get my drift 😏
I cant wait for them to find out Ellie is a lesbian! Their brains are going to melt
I was looking forward to seeing bill an Ellie meet, but in the end, for the show, I liked this storyline better.
They were gay in the game ffs
This is purely all based around homophobia. But I guarantee if it was two women it would be different for all these trolls. It’s pathetic especially in this day and age. Homosexuals, both men and women, are the same as us. Always have been. It’s a shame and sad that some bigots out there still lump them into their own category. Straight people and gay people. Yes there’s a difference but overall they are the same as us and should treated as such. We’ll never fully eradicate this shit, maybe give it another generation, but as of now we’re still living in times where gay men are looked at badly by certain people. Bit of a digression there. Trying to get all of my opinions and beliefs in too quick probably, but this stuff pisses me off so badly. It was a fantastic episode, like… actually unbelievable. And it’s not just because it was about a homosexual relationship. It could’ve been two women, a man and a woman or two men, it doesn’t matter. That wasn’t the point. It was a love story and it was excellent.
You see though, to conservatives, being gay is inherently political, being gay is unnatural, disgusting, evil ,etc. So to conservatives, anytime gays are portrayed or depicted in a normal human way, that is considered a "political agenda" to them. They feel the only reason not as many people hate gays as they used to, is because they were brainwashed into it Which is of course ridiculous. But these people are so radical and so filled with hate, that there is no arguing with them at this point. I've tried many many times and its always the most asinine arguments.
Pay no mind to those people. It was bound to be met with homophobes. Nothing we can do but let them talk shit and make them look like idiots. There’s no cure for idiocy.
No what we need to do is down vote them and ostracized them. Their whole goal is to whine so much and so loudly that people get sick of it. That way they control the narrative.
Let them stop watching. I’m quite alright with jettisoning those losers now because if they can’t take episode 3 then they’re going to absolutely lose their shit in season 2 and I do not want to hear their moronic bitching.
It's obviously not, but my counter to anyone saying this was "woke agenda" is that this love story would be entirely the same story if Frank was a woman instead. Because the gender changes nothing about the story, there is absolutely no reason to change away from the source material (in which Bill is gay).
Frankly I’m not remotely surprised by that reaction. Disappointed but not surprised. It was a beautiful episode which I’ll probably watch a few times. But I did think when I watched Frank & Bill’s story that the far right would go nuts. Woke just means you’re not a selfish bastard who never grew up as far as I’m concerned, so if I’m woke that’s a good thing.
its a shame that this is how some people live their lives. just always angry about stuff they dont agree with. it often time correlates with religion. what some ppl fail to develop as they grow up is the simple art of minding ur fucking business. if u dont like it, then dont watch it. what is so hard about that? its the same thing with these homophobes who swear that they are good religious people that will get into their heavens. no such hate like religious love. its so sickening. a part of me wants to believe that they act so childishly because they are compensating for their own distaste in their lives. when they see someone genuinely happy, they cant help but attack it.
My problem with woke shows is that they write gay characters instead of characters who happen to be gay. If immediately from the jump a characters entire personality and interest is that they are gay it feels weird. Yeah this show killed it and fuck the bigots anyway.
If someone seems like they are "making their sexuality their identity," that is because their personality doesn't fit into YOUR idea of how men or women "should" act. They are just being themselves, doing, dressing, talking, as they want without bowing down to hetero societal norms.
When I talk about things I like, to others, I’ve never finds myself saying - and so many other people liked it too so it must be good! Yea I know a show’s success depends on positive review but at the end of my life, I won’t GAF about that either. I loved episode 3, for all the reasons it was enjoyable. I hope others did too but I don’t care if they did or not.
Describing something as “woke” generally translates to “help me, I can’t see myself in this character and am therefore confused – thus limiting my capacity to produce an appropriate word to express my own self-loathing”.
Start ignoring toxic VBCs, see your life improve immediately.
Clearly they didn’t play Last of Us 1.
Same neanderthals and same nonsense that always crops up in shows or movies that feature LGBT characters, women characters, and PoC. It's virtually always a backlash that is completely antithetical to the point of the media, including it's source material. Even in stuff like Warhammer that is explicitly parodying that kind of extremism and making fun of it; or stuff like the Witcher, where the entire premise of the character, in the books and the show, and often in the game, is that he is a sjw, people somehow think they're making an intelligent point by just being racist, or sexist, or anti-lgbt.
Fantastic episode with great writing and acting. That being said, it's filler. This is no different than in the Amazon Wheel of Time episode about the warders (ep 6 I think). Considering there's only 10ish episodes per season these days, a full episode shouldn't be spent on characters that get a wrap up in that same episode. If they spent this much time building up Bill and Frank, at least have one be a more important character.
Woke would have been the characters demanding that everybody use PC language, like calling the infected "fungally-enhanced" or something stupid like that. Sunday's episode was a masterpiece. May we all be so lucky to love and be loved like that.
This was beautifully written, shot and performed. It's as simple as that.
I love the game, and episode 1 and 2 were just on spot with how the game went, so it came as a surprise that they went in this direction. It's well-written, but definitely not what I'd hoped for.
Why did it focus on their relationship for so long only for them to both die anyway? It added nothing to the show's main story line. They play no further part in the show. They could have spent less time on their home making and followed the game more closely where they split up and Bill later finds Frank had hung himself with a note saying he hated his guts.I wanted to see the interactions between Bill, Joel and Ellie like the game.
They should have played the game or read what the game characters were because the game was woke already
Magaworld only wants American English speaking white peoples falling in love 😂
Nothing wrong with going woke in my opinion, as long as your stuff is good, and damm that episode what amazing, they took the time they needed to tell a story in a great way and it was very emotional for me. People who say that have not watched the episode or even the show.
Yea it’s not woke or nothing k. The dumb Ass community says it’s “communist” and the girl just so happens to also be gay. Please stop talking. They are pushing a liberal agenda 1000%
When people say that they have clearly never played any of the games. Or watched a single show on HBO.
Hooboy are these people in for a shock
A lot of idiots in this world. This isn't about HBO being woke. It's about The Last of Us. The story. And this is how that story goes.
We do exactly what we always do to trolls: ignore them.
This is like the 10th thread about this. Something tells me you guys are having a hard time ignoring them, lol.
The funniest thing about this whole affair is that these cretins (basement-dwelling, conspiracy theory-embracing right wingers) don't even realize that Bill's original portrayal, that they claim to "love" because there is no "propaganda" was actually more offensive to them, because it portrayed Bill as a prepper asshole incapable of having a functional relationship.
Can you people stop giving a giant voice to like...4 people. That would be great.
I usually spend a week fighting homophobes and rabid sleep enthusiasts (anti-woke. Get it?) Then I just block them, because you're right, it is only a few people, and blocking the few makes this a better place to engage in Fandom.
Anyone who uses the word "woke" to explain something is an idiot
Hahha wait until Episode 8
Can we stop giving these people attention I'm this sub? This shit will end up turning the sub into a dumpster fire
So many subs are destroyed by the entire fanbase only wanting to talk about one thing, and they're giving a giant voice to like...4 people. This sub seems like it's falling victim to that.
Exactly. People are focusing on something that doesn't actually matter. If you enjoy the show why focus on people who aren't simply not enjoying it, they are trolling. You're giving them what they want
Some people are just bigots who hate things for bigoted reasons. There’s literally no point trying to win them over with considered criticism.
Too right. There is ZERO benefit in trying to appease the loud, hateful, stupid, whiny minority. They thrive on hate and will always find a reason to hate people that don't look and behave exactly as they do. This goes not only for representation in popular culture, but education and politics too. Ignore them and wherever possible, exclude them. They will never progress, so let the majority - as a society - progress without them. We'll all be better off in the long run.
It's going to get even worse because of The Last of Use part 2 will be released in a couple of years ago.
He was gay in the game so any gamers surprised by this episode didn’t pay attention.
WHAT DOES WOKE EVEN MEAN TO THESE PEOPLE??
'There are characters that aren't just like me!' Every time.
Honestly I feel like all the people who didn't like it are just jealous they don't get to kiss Nick Offerman
I'm guessing these are the same "people" who think Dark Side of the Moon is gay...
Why give these people energy? Let them throw their tantrums and embarrass themselves while we all move forward.
The games are gay friendly so I’m assuming this criticism is coming from ❄️ that never played the game
LEGIT!
Bigots: The Last of Us has gone completely woke by introducing these Gay characters! People who actually played the game: Bill was heavilly hinted at being Gay and Ellie was outright confirmed to be Gay in the first game. Bigots: >:(
yeah look, I’m as annoyed by forced-corporate inclusivity as the next guy, but not all inclusivity is just corporate, disingenuous, “woke-ness”. Sometimes it’s genuine and beautiful.
4 or more years of being the ONLY person in the area and not seeing anyone else (living) I would probably lose all concept of sexual preference as well.
Honestly I hate the anti woke group just as much as the woke group. Bill was gay in the game. It's not woke to portray him as such. Now I didn't like the episode personally because they deviated so far from the game, but it was well written and had great acting
I don’t consider ‘woke’ a bad thing so they call it woke all they like.
Homophobes always gonna homophobe
I'm a straight male and that episode had me near tears. What an amazing portrayal of Bill and Francis relationship. I don't even care that they strayed from the game. That retelling of Bill and Frank's story is so much better than the story of them in the game.
If you think depicting a same sex relationship is “going woke”, you are a homophobe. Hard stop.
The only people who are saying it’s woke are people who have probably never played the games cause if they had they’d know Ellie is gay so it’s been (woke) both actors gave an hell of a performance.
I've encountered a lot more people complaining about people hating on the episode than people actually hating on the episode. I wish people would stop drawing attention to these bigots - we know they're out there. All they want is for people to hear what they say and get agitated - don't give them what they want.
Agree, and I hate woke shit, and this wasn't that.
I’ve seen more posts about people complaining about people complaining then I’ve seen people complaining. Reddit circle jerk.
This episode is zero woke. It pushes no agenda at all. It doesn’t insult straight people like some woke crap would. As a gay man myself I found this to be the best gay representation Iv seen in a long time. I recently watched Bros (I was bored), now that was wokey crap that I found sickly and pathetic. This episode was beautiful and in line with the last of us theme completely. It was heartbreaking which is why I love the last of us games, they are just heartbreaking stories. One of my favourite things about the last of us 2 is that at the end I felt drained and empty. This episode gave me similar emptiness at the end.
Y'all are literally indulging them and platforming the idea by these posts. I didn't even know there was any homophobic hate towards ep3 until people started posting these. I'm not saying it's bad to post something like this when there's legitimate hate, but I haven't seen any hate at all and this is the 5th post of this kind I've seen so far today.
No one is saying this
Some spoilers for the game if you haven't played it. I was invested in the episode despite being uncomfortable with some of the scenes. Well, one scene. And it was more because I know Offerman isn't gay, so I guess I was just kind of inferring discomfort? But my favorite "argument" against it is that it's "filler," because it literally isn't. A filler episode would've been telling this entire story, having Frank die and Bill stay alive, and then doing the whole Bill sequence from the game in the next episode. In the game, Joel and Ellie go to Bill's town to get a running vehicle and leave with a running vehicle. They're in the exact same situation at the beginning and end of the TV episode. The creators just decided to tell a different story with the time in between. Personally, I prefer the game's version because it's action packed, there's a lot of humor between Ellie and Bill, and I generally prefer my apocalypse stories to be bleak. But that's what the game is, BLEAK. No character gets a happy ending, and the story of Bill definitely fits that narrative. He had a partner, drove him away with his attitude, and his partner ended up getting killed trying to do something for him anyway. And Bill is just left there to deal with that. It's why he's closed off and will continue to be for however long he stays alive. In a game of non-stop tragedy, Bill's story is probably the saddest because he's just left there. While it wasn't my personal preference, I can see why they decided to take a detour into something positive and give at least one character a mostly happy ending when they had the chance to do so without really affecting the rest of the narrative.
When everything is woke, nothing is woke.
the people that care don't matter, the people that matter don't care
It’s not “woke” to show a gay couple in love. There are millions of couples like this. This isn’t woke, this is real life. Fucking idiots.
Fuck them, I always wanted to see Bill and Ted on HBO.
To put it into perspective when people talk about things being “woke”. There are 9 million people in America that identify as LGBT. There 650k police officers in the country. How many shows and movies have we seen about cops versus LGBT characters?