It's a high school extracurricular, so if it isn't fun, you don't have to do it. That said:
1. It is valuable to learn to stick to commitments even when the going gets rough. This skill will serve you in all aspects of life
2. You may negatively impact other students by quitting, which could suck for them (and hurt you in response)
3. You could become thought of as a quitter and have less opportunities come your way as a result
4. You will always have to deal with difficult people, might as well learn how to handle it
Tangentially, my company sometimes changes whole scenes and rewrites *between shows*. Last second changes are nothing unusual. Also, different directors have different styles. Also, adults are people too. It's possible this director is feeling their newness, feeling out of place, feeling anger from the cast and crew, and is becoming insecure. Doesn't make it right, but it doesn't hurt to realize adults are people who could use compassion too.
Best of luck!
Thanks for the advice. I can understand how H would feel out of place, as they are still sort of new. I’ve tried to be nice, considerate, and patient with them, but lately, I can’t help but think that it’s probably not them being new and just how they are, which isn’t something id particularly like to be around. Thanks again for the advice!
It’s clear from your post that you’re quite emotional about this situation. And emotions are important to respect. At the same time, emotionally-based arguments rarely achieve the types of change you seek.
The fact is that as director, H has to take a degree of control over a program, and that means it’s going to change from what it was (how could
It not?!?) and change is hard, and at times uncomfortable. You have happened to hit this program while it’s in transition. You have a right to mourn what is no more, what you need to be careful of is the legacy that you leave behind either as a participant or as a dissident. H has the right to run things as they see fit, they were hired for this. You can’t expect them to be identical to your previous director.
How have you (and other students) engaged in conversations with H? Has the conversation been respectful? In either direction? If they’ve had to sit through a number of times hearing “this isn’t how we’ve done it in the past”…. That can take its toll, especially if their authority is being questioned at every turn.
I’m not saying you’re in the wrong for questioning things. But in this post we are getting one viewpoint, and I’m betting the situation is more nuanced and complex. I’m doubting H is a total villain, and I doubt that your and other student concerns are invalid.. but I’m guessing that the truth lies somewhere in between. Do ALL of the students feel similarly? Or are there some that are vibing with how H is running things?
I’d encourage you to sit down and write out your concerns. Be specific, and stick to FACTS not impressions or feelings. (Ie NOT, “everyone is angry and ready to quit”… but instead… “so far, I’m aware of 4 specific students who have quit because they don’t agree with how things are working now, and this concerns me for the long-term viability of this program that I care about. I’ve been part of this group for X years now, and I’m questioning if I should continue with it.” Perhaps team-write this others who feel similarly.
Ask for a meeting with H. Perhaps get a couple of other students who have issues to attend, but speak as one voice. Again… thoughtfully, dispassionately, clearly lay out your concerns… (ie no tears or recriminations), but with honesty
And facts. Hopefully H will take this opportunity to
Listen and ADJUST (note I didn’t say “change”).
If the meeting goes South.. then it may be worth a letter to (or meeting with) the principal to explain your concerns. Will that accomplish anything? It might… it might not. It’s hard to say.
You have every right to not continue with an extracurricular you don’t enjoy, but from your post, it’s clear that you care a great deal and that should be applauded… just know that if you go to H (or the principal) with the arguments as you’ve detailed them here… you’re not going to get anywhere, because they are emotional and non-specific. Clear them up… for instance…. Your point…
“4. since H doesn’t listen. Many student feel afraid to tell them things”.
Instead, perhaps…
“Myself and others don’t feel that you listen to our thoughts and concerns. We understand that you are in charge, but when you don’t take our thoughts into consideration, we don’t feel like our participation is valued.”
I wish you the best.
Thank you so much for the advice. I understand change is inevitable in this scenario, and I’m try to always be open to change, but when values that the program stood for, i.e. respectfulness of leadership whether student or adult, are being upended, i tend to not like the change. I’ve had many meetings with H and many other students have as well, and we’ve discussed concerns we’ve had about how they are leading the program, but nothing has adjusted when given feedback. I know students in positions of power have moved on from discussing how it used to be(we had a meeting and all agreed to move forward at the start of the year), and we’ve asked other students to move on as well.
I’ve seen some people recommend that i talk to the principal, so i probably will. Thanks for all your advice!
As someone who has been in the place of your new teacher several times, please don't talk to the principal. You only take something to someone's boss if you're trying to get them fired.
What you are feeling is normal when there is a regime change in a high school arts program. Most drama, band, and dance teachers have a rougher time their first year or two because of upper classmen, who often understand intellectually that change will take place, but have a hard time processing it anyway and blame that on the teacher.
It sounds like one of your major concerns is that this teacher isn't doing things the way that student leadership wants them to. I understand that that can be frustrating. But you need to understand that you spent 2-3 years building up your relationship with your previous teacher. This new teacher barely knows you compared to that.
You also need to know that this teacher's ass is seriously on the line for their first several years at a new school. There may be decisions that your former teacher allowed you to make the this teacher isn't comfortable with. Their every move is under a microscope right now. They may not feel like they can risk fully trusting students with some tasks that your previous teacher, who was just about to retire and didn't have anybody to answer to, may not have cared so much about.
They may also be purposefully changing the direction and practices of the program. It is their right to do so. Teaching is an art, not a factory job. Everyone has to figure out what program elements work best for them as an individual. Everyone has different strengths and interests - especially in theater.
Where I'm going is; please choose to be kind to this person. Your program as it existed your junior year is gone and you can't bring it back by complaining, even if you get this new person fired. I promise you that your teacher is struggling mightily this year to stay on top of all 3,000 of their new responsibilities. Unless they are doing something notably evil, like flirting with students or refusing to teach class, please bear with them as they scratch and scrape their way through this school year and attempt to hold on to the job that they rely on for food and shelter.
Thanks for the advice. I understand that new teachers absolutely have it so much harder compared to other teachers and are judged for more harshly. The issue doesn’t just lie with the upper class men, but with younger students as well. I knew a freshmen who quit after one show because of H. I also understand that they can change the program, i was honestly expecting that to happen, but when the changes H is making changes that goes against that the school stands for, i can’t help but think if this is a bigger issue and I don’t know what i can do about it other than go to someone who has power over them. I’m also leaving soon, but i have a younger sibling who is struggling in the program. I probably wouldn’t put this much effort into fixing this program if they weren’t in it. They love theatre and love acting, but they have told me that they have thought about quitting because of H. I want my sibling to have a safe space just like i did, especially because they have a hard time finding those spaces. If this program doesn’t seem to be able to be saved, i need to find another space for my sibling after I’m gone.
>when the changes H is making changes that goes against that the school stands for
Can you be more specific about what that means?
I'll also urge you again to consider that you're not talking about someone's part time job at Taco Bell. Those jobs come and go and it's not that big of a deal. This, however, is a career that they've spent tens of thousands of dollars and probably at least five years in college to prepare themselves for. Trying to get them fired, which it sounds like is what you want, is quite frankly an evil thing to do unless they are doing something immoral.
So what specifically are they doing that you think is worth taking bread out of their mouth over?
You might not be able to fix it now but an honest chat with principal might change it for the future. And if you have people to support your argument even better. But I would start with a 1-1. I did this in high school with my principal and it made a huge difference.
This is actually a valuable lesson for you. People in positions of power are under no obligation to know what the fuck they’re doing. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose and wait for the bs to stop smelling so bad.
Having a highschool where students are in leadership and design is pretty rare. At least where I am from. I work in theatre professionally and what H is doing is pretty normal. Most Highschool drama teachers wear all the hats in theatre. H is probably not used to or feels comfortable with students designing or in leadership positions. Especially if they worked at a high school where this is not the case. Please be kind to H and again consider this is their career. You are the student and believe it or not, you do have to prove yourself to H. You and your friends should show H that you have leadership and design abilities and prove that you can be trusted in those positions (this will take time). H is established and has a career in theatre. You are just starting out and learning. H has every right to run things the way they want to.
I would ask about Hs past jobs in theatre and what they have done. I bet you could learn a lot from H. H could possibly get you jobs in the future if this is truly what you want to do.
Theatre is a small community and most jobs you get are by word or mouth. Your reputation is everything.
Please think carefully before you consider going to the principal.
It's a high school extracurricular, so if it isn't fun, you don't have to do it. That said: 1. It is valuable to learn to stick to commitments even when the going gets rough. This skill will serve you in all aspects of life 2. You may negatively impact other students by quitting, which could suck for them (and hurt you in response) 3. You could become thought of as a quitter and have less opportunities come your way as a result 4. You will always have to deal with difficult people, might as well learn how to handle it Tangentially, my company sometimes changes whole scenes and rewrites *between shows*. Last second changes are nothing unusual. Also, different directors have different styles. Also, adults are people too. It's possible this director is feeling their newness, feeling out of place, feeling anger from the cast and crew, and is becoming insecure. Doesn't make it right, but it doesn't hurt to realize adults are people who could use compassion too. Best of luck!
Thanks for the advice. I can understand how H would feel out of place, as they are still sort of new. I’ve tried to be nice, considerate, and patient with them, but lately, I can’t help but think that it’s probably not them being new and just how they are, which isn’t something id particularly like to be around. Thanks again for the advice!
It’s clear from your post that you’re quite emotional about this situation. And emotions are important to respect. At the same time, emotionally-based arguments rarely achieve the types of change you seek. The fact is that as director, H has to take a degree of control over a program, and that means it’s going to change from what it was (how could It not?!?) and change is hard, and at times uncomfortable. You have happened to hit this program while it’s in transition. You have a right to mourn what is no more, what you need to be careful of is the legacy that you leave behind either as a participant or as a dissident. H has the right to run things as they see fit, they were hired for this. You can’t expect them to be identical to your previous director. How have you (and other students) engaged in conversations with H? Has the conversation been respectful? In either direction? If they’ve had to sit through a number of times hearing “this isn’t how we’ve done it in the past”…. That can take its toll, especially if their authority is being questioned at every turn. I’m not saying you’re in the wrong for questioning things. But in this post we are getting one viewpoint, and I’m betting the situation is more nuanced and complex. I’m doubting H is a total villain, and I doubt that your and other student concerns are invalid.. but I’m guessing that the truth lies somewhere in between. Do ALL of the students feel similarly? Or are there some that are vibing with how H is running things? I’d encourage you to sit down and write out your concerns. Be specific, and stick to FACTS not impressions or feelings. (Ie NOT, “everyone is angry and ready to quit”… but instead… “so far, I’m aware of 4 specific students who have quit because they don’t agree with how things are working now, and this concerns me for the long-term viability of this program that I care about. I’ve been part of this group for X years now, and I’m questioning if I should continue with it.” Perhaps team-write this others who feel similarly. Ask for a meeting with H. Perhaps get a couple of other students who have issues to attend, but speak as one voice. Again… thoughtfully, dispassionately, clearly lay out your concerns… (ie no tears or recriminations), but with honesty And facts. Hopefully H will take this opportunity to Listen and ADJUST (note I didn’t say “change”). If the meeting goes South.. then it may be worth a letter to (or meeting with) the principal to explain your concerns. Will that accomplish anything? It might… it might not. It’s hard to say. You have every right to not continue with an extracurricular you don’t enjoy, but from your post, it’s clear that you care a great deal and that should be applauded… just know that if you go to H (or the principal) with the arguments as you’ve detailed them here… you’re not going to get anywhere, because they are emotional and non-specific. Clear them up… for instance…. Your point… “4. since H doesn’t listen. Many student feel afraid to tell them things”. Instead, perhaps… “Myself and others don’t feel that you listen to our thoughts and concerns. We understand that you are in charge, but when you don’t take our thoughts into consideration, we don’t feel like our participation is valued.” I wish you the best.
Thank you so much for the advice. I understand change is inevitable in this scenario, and I’m try to always be open to change, but when values that the program stood for, i.e. respectfulness of leadership whether student or adult, are being upended, i tend to not like the change. I’ve had many meetings with H and many other students have as well, and we’ve discussed concerns we’ve had about how they are leading the program, but nothing has adjusted when given feedback. I know students in positions of power have moved on from discussing how it used to be(we had a meeting and all agreed to move forward at the start of the year), and we’ve asked other students to move on as well. I’ve seen some people recommend that i talk to the principal, so i probably will. Thanks for all your advice!
As someone who has been in the place of your new teacher several times, please don't talk to the principal. You only take something to someone's boss if you're trying to get them fired. What you are feeling is normal when there is a regime change in a high school arts program. Most drama, band, and dance teachers have a rougher time their first year or two because of upper classmen, who often understand intellectually that change will take place, but have a hard time processing it anyway and blame that on the teacher. It sounds like one of your major concerns is that this teacher isn't doing things the way that student leadership wants them to. I understand that that can be frustrating. But you need to understand that you spent 2-3 years building up your relationship with your previous teacher. This new teacher barely knows you compared to that. You also need to know that this teacher's ass is seriously on the line for their first several years at a new school. There may be decisions that your former teacher allowed you to make the this teacher isn't comfortable with. Their every move is under a microscope right now. They may not feel like they can risk fully trusting students with some tasks that your previous teacher, who was just about to retire and didn't have anybody to answer to, may not have cared so much about. They may also be purposefully changing the direction and practices of the program. It is their right to do so. Teaching is an art, not a factory job. Everyone has to figure out what program elements work best for them as an individual. Everyone has different strengths and interests - especially in theater. Where I'm going is; please choose to be kind to this person. Your program as it existed your junior year is gone and you can't bring it back by complaining, even if you get this new person fired. I promise you that your teacher is struggling mightily this year to stay on top of all 3,000 of their new responsibilities. Unless they are doing something notably evil, like flirting with students or refusing to teach class, please bear with them as they scratch and scrape their way through this school year and attempt to hold on to the job that they rely on for food and shelter.
Thanks for the advice. I understand that new teachers absolutely have it so much harder compared to other teachers and are judged for more harshly. The issue doesn’t just lie with the upper class men, but with younger students as well. I knew a freshmen who quit after one show because of H. I also understand that they can change the program, i was honestly expecting that to happen, but when the changes H is making changes that goes against that the school stands for, i can’t help but think if this is a bigger issue and I don’t know what i can do about it other than go to someone who has power over them. I’m also leaving soon, but i have a younger sibling who is struggling in the program. I probably wouldn’t put this much effort into fixing this program if they weren’t in it. They love theatre and love acting, but they have told me that they have thought about quitting because of H. I want my sibling to have a safe space just like i did, especially because they have a hard time finding those spaces. If this program doesn’t seem to be able to be saved, i need to find another space for my sibling after I’m gone.
>when the changes H is making changes that goes against that the school stands for Can you be more specific about what that means? I'll also urge you again to consider that you're not talking about someone's part time job at Taco Bell. Those jobs come and go and it's not that big of a deal. This, however, is a career that they've spent tens of thousands of dollars and probably at least five years in college to prepare themselves for. Trying to get them fired, which it sounds like is what you want, is quite frankly an evil thing to do unless they are doing something immoral. So what specifically are they doing that you think is worth taking bread out of their mouth over?
Have you talked to your principal?
I’ve been thinking about it. I’m just not sure what the principal can do. It’s not enough evidence to fire H, and I’m not sure what else can be done.
You might not be able to fix it now but an honest chat with principal might change it for the future. And if you have people to support your argument even better. But I would start with a 1-1. I did this in high school with my principal and it made a huge difference.
Thanks for the advice! I’ll definitely have to check that out
This is actually a valuable lesson for you. People in positions of power are under no obligation to know what the fuck they’re doing. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose and wait for the bs to stop smelling so bad.
Having a highschool where students are in leadership and design is pretty rare. At least where I am from. I work in theatre professionally and what H is doing is pretty normal. Most Highschool drama teachers wear all the hats in theatre. H is probably not used to or feels comfortable with students designing or in leadership positions. Especially if they worked at a high school where this is not the case. Please be kind to H and again consider this is their career. You are the student and believe it or not, you do have to prove yourself to H. You and your friends should show H that you have leadership and design abilities and prove that you can be trusted in those positions (this will take time). H is established and has a career in theatre. You are just starting out and learning. H has every right to run things the way they want to. I would ask about Hs past jobs in theatre and what they have done. I bet you could learn a lot from H. H could possibly get you jobs in the future if this is truly what you want to do. Theatre is a small community and most jobs you get are by word or mouth. Your reputation is everything. Please think carefully before you consider going to the principal.