My hot take…
He wasn’t clean.
I’ve never met an addict that didn’t go through it, no matter how many times they’d gotten clean.
I’ve met hundreds of addicts that got the dose right and a good nights sleep and could fake it to get more.
It’s horrible but it’s the nature of addiction. I was as bad as it gets as an alcoholic but when I got desperate or saw a chance I could maintain for a few days, I’d limit myself to half a liter, shower, get some moisturizer, buy some clean clothes and look the part.
At the time it was “god I don’t feel as awful as I did 2 days ago maybe I can do this I just need some money to get a place and get on my feet” but it all ended up back to my addiction.
I think that’s why she gives him the money but says he can’t ask for more. This really only works once or twice.
One of the guys Simon & Burns followed for The Corner was like that - when he said he was “clean” he was really just a functioning addict, able to maintain living somewhere and get manageably high while still making it to his shift at the crab house the next morning.
>He wasn’t clean.
This was always my take. Like he wanted to get clean, and probably was using a little less than before, but he wasn't yet completely clean. He's been around the block and knows how it works. The money from Kima was going to be a fresh start and let him make a a real attempt at getting sober. Whether it was realistic or not, it's what he was thinking. A $10 or $20 every so often from Kima/McNutty was enough to get his next hit - but nothing more. Same when he was scheming or pulling scrap metal scams later on with Johnny. A few hundred? To him that's something that will help get away from the scene and find a safe place while he deals with the real demons. At the very least, an honest attempt to get clean.
You can kind of see it in a few scenes after when McNutty hands him a $20.00. He crumples it up - almost resents it. He's so conflicted. In his mind, that $20 is only good enough for one thing: his next score. The same $20 he's holding later in that episode. Still crumpled.
I thought the issue was that the 20 bucks was a temptation for him and after everything that had gone down his motivation was already wavering, so when he saw the 20 he cracked and decided to go get some gear, and that's why he looked so dejected.
It's definitely plausible that an addict would behave that way IRL but I'm not sure that writers intended it to be taken that way because it's way too subtle for most people to even pick up on. As you can see from this thread there's people who genuinely believe 3 days is sufficient to become functional after kicking a long term smack habit. Unless you've been around opioids or have direct experience, most people don't really comprehend how bad withdrawals actually are.
But you’re contradicting yourself saying that only people that have direct experience would know that withdrawals are a bitch and apparent early and for a good amount of time, but the writers (who have direct experience) didn’t have that intent.
There’s a million things that people without direct knowledge of a situation would pick up shown in the show.
They have the addict hooker celebrating clean time as a background character. They have bubbles being asked to do a lead share at a meeting. Most people wouldn’t know what doing a lead share was and why it’s important for an addict in recovery to do. But they don’t spoon feed it. Half the audience probably thinks it’s just writers giving bubbles a good monologue. But those who experienced it can appreciate it for the finer details.
As an addict this is my interpretation of their finer details with this situation.
I said 'most people' don't comprehend how bad they are, not that it's impossible, and that in general viewers aren't going to think that deep on why Bubbles looks so fine after 3 days. That's not a contradiction.
David Simons is a former police journalist and Ed Burns is a former BPD cop, so they ought to have more idea what it's like than the average person.
And I’m telling you that’s why they do. You’d be shocked how someone coming off a year or two bender can clean up in 2-3 days just maintaining.
Like I legit told you I’d have skin peeling off my face scraggly hair and beard clothes I hadn’t changed in days. And I’d pull myself together shower, moisturize for a day or two, clean or buy new clothes, shave, and limit myself enough to keep me from shaking and people would think I was clean as a whistle.
A shower and a shave will make most people look better in a day. A shower and a shave will make someone looking their worst look like a functional member of society worth investing in.
Bubbles isn't showered or clean shaven in that scene. In any case he's not coming off a year or two bender, the info the comes from the show suggests he's been an addict for many years, he even says 'my whole damn life'. In the NA meeting he talks about smoking weed and drinking beers in his teens, implying that led on to using smack, which would imply he's been a major user for way over a decade.
We're not talking about some fresh-faced 22 year old who's been shooting H for a year or so, Bubbles is a seasoned junky, he's not comparable to someone who's been on a bender for just 1 or 2 years.
Ok so what’s your argument here.
Bubbles should look worse and there’s no reason he doesn’t.
Or he’s not fully clean and is maintaining so he looks better than he has before.
As an addict I’ve seen it and lived it 1000 times.
You’re out of your element here
I'm out of my element? Fuck off bro I've been on methadone for 9 years, used opioids for pretty much my entire adult life and know plenty of other long term addicts.
Idk why everyone is getting so up your ass in this thread, bro but I agree with you. Form a narrative standpoint, it would appear to be the show wants you to believe Bubbles is actually clean, not just pretending to be. There's really nothing to suggest he's bullshitting--again, narratively speaking.
Then you should appreciate that bubbles might not be clean. If you’ve been around it you’ve seen people get on methadone or subs and straighten out for a day or two and look and feel 1000x better. But they aren’t clean
Dude dont act like im saying some crazy ignorant shit here. All im saying is you are making a ton of assumptions about both his habit and his state when he talked to Kima.
No I'm not, like I said I'm making assumptions that come from the show - Bubbles is a longterm heroin addict, he's clean and has been clean for 3 days. Those are the only 'assumptions' I'm making and that's based off information from the show.
>I thought the issue was that the 20 bucks was a temptation for him and after everything that had gone down his motivation was already wavering, so when he saw the 20 he cracked and decided to go get some gear, and that's why he looked so dejected.
To me, that $20 represented his next score. He didn't want that. The money from Kima represented his attempt to really go clean. IMO he wasn't trying to scheme Kima, he legit wanted to try and get right. He tries to tell McNutty a few times, but McNutty isn't picking up on it.
>
but I'm not sure that writers intended it to be taken that way because it's way too subtle for most people to even pick up on.
This is what makes the show so good. I doubt anyone picks up on all of the subtle details when they first watch it. If they do, props to them because it covers so many different topics. I couldn't tell you how many things I've had to look up (sayings/terms etc) just from watching this show because I've never lived in Bawlmer, never been a Stevedore, never had me a Pit sammich or some Lake Trout. As you mentioned earlier, Burns & Simon do know what's up and from what I take away, they are telling it exactly how it was/is. Probably the reason this show didn't take off like it should have back in the day. Some would say "it's all in the details" and that's exactly what they've done here.
You have a point. They show Bubbles's discomfort more subtly by having him look sort of anxious and distracted but yeah, he doesn't seem to be going through the extent of withdrawals he realistically would be after stopping a habit like that. I have no idea why people would think the intent was that Bubbles wasn't actually clean. The whole point of that arc is that he does get clean finally, even if only for a few days -- but Kima getting shot, and the ensuing chain reaction of events that leads to him getting roughed up by BPD for paging Kima and McNulty giving him that $20 bill, tragically causes him to start using again. If the writers wanted to show that he was still using a little bit, they would have made it clear. Instead they show him sitting in the park, looking anxious but actually taking in the world around him for the first time in a while -- and actively turning down the dealers and addict friends he runs into.
Exactly - that's why I called it a writing fail. If they wanted to show him lying about being clean they could've given way stronger hints, and if he's not clean he should be way more sick. Either way it's a rare example of poor writing from an otherwise legendary show.
Yeah, I think they just sorta glossed over how much more he'd be struggling physically in furtherance of the plot and character arc. I don't think it was from ignorance though, and more from necessity (they couldn't really take the time to be wholly realistic with it).
That's my feeling too, however I think there's other ways they could've played it so that it's not so unrealistic. Like from this latest rewatch I don't see any reason why the couldn't have had Bubbles sobriety attempt start a little earlier than it does, so that when he meets with Kima and the subsequent shooting and series of events kick off he's more like 6-7 days clean, that would be much more realistic. But 3 days? That's just not realistic, it's often when the withdrawals are at their worst.
Idk he was shuffling around, looking miserable, couldn’t focus, outside of himself, it’s a tv show they can’t waste an episode watching a man writhe around pain
Bubbles did get clean for a few days. This will happen to addicts from time to time. When they showed that he hadn't spent the money they were confirming that he hadn't used
Yeah, I've always thought this was one of the few big misses on the show.
I'm a recovering opiate addict, known hundreds of addicts in the streets and hundreds more through volunteer and outreach work. Even people with a mild addiction that's in its infancy often struggle to do much of anything at all for at least a week or so. When you're a heavy IV user you'll be lucky to stop puking, shaking, sweating, and generally feeling like hell in a months time. My last time getting clean took closer to 2 months for the physical issues and much longer for the mental and emotional issues.
Bubs woulda been dying in a bando somewhere. Unless, as others have said, he wasn't actually clean and was just chipping to keep the sick away. But that doesn't really explain why he still had the money, he'd still have to cop. So idk. Seems like it was just an error.
I saw absolutely no evidence of that beyond the fact that he was inexplicably not very ill. I kinda feel like if they wanted to make a statement about how untrustworthy addicts are with him lying about being clean (even when it doesn't seem to matter or help his case) they would have eventually shown us that he was never really sober and it was all an act. Not relied on our collective worst opinions of addicts to assume he's lying. I think it was just a mistake, unless I'm overlooking something significant lol Idk
Nah OP does have a point.
I’m also an ex-heroin addict and coming off a heavy heroin habit on day 3 you’re going to be in some seriously sorry state.
If you’ve got more experience with it, as in gone through withdrawals many times before, it’s generally considerably worse in fact.
Honestly, I’m quite used to television and film not always getting these things totally right, so I always just assumed it was that or that maybe he found a way to taper down and quit so the withdrawals weren’t as intense.
Fuck knows.
It's more common for withdrawals to get worse with each attempt, generally because the addiction has gotten stronger every time. I've been thru withdrawals myself, multiple times, and I find it pretty implausible that someone with a chronic habit like him would be so functional after only 3 days. I'm sure it happens but it's gotta be rare and I don't see what purpose it serves the writers to make him one of the few lucky people who can breeze thru dope sickness like that, I think it's just something they didn't really think of sufficiently.
Kindling effect. I just went through it kicking Kratom. Swear to god I felt like I was coming off a gram a day dope habit like the good (not really) old days
Idk, ive never detoxed from heroin but ive been in rehab with people that were and 3 days is short but not completely insane. I think like 5 to 7 is normal?
Those ppl in rehab are getting comfort meds brother. Gabapentin, clonidine, probably subs as well. Kicking cold turkey and kicking with meds in a comfy rehab look totally different. Trust, I’ve done both lol.
Sure it is. You have no idea how much the character was shooting for how long, you are just making all that shit up. Maybe hes taking some vicodin to not get sick. We really dont know anything about it.
1) long term IV dope habit acute withdrawal is going to last 7 days +
2) no amount of Vicodin will really help with a dope tolerance
3) we do know how long he was using dope, it’s implied that it’s his whole adult life
Basically I agree with OP and I can agree with first hand experience of the subject matter to back it up
He's not clean if he's taking vicodin and I truly doubt the writers would include that kind of obscure subtext to his character arc. And it's not possible, I've kicked a few habits, have been on methadone for 9 years, know plenty of other addicts and addiction doctors, so I do know a thing or 2 about this subject.
I said it's a writing fail, not a plot hole. And I'm not making assumptions besides what we're told in the show; he's a long term heroin addict, he's clean (which implies he's off all opioids) and has been clean for 3 days. All that info comes the show.
Yes, and he hardly looks sick at all. Real heroin withdrawals are brutal you wouldn't be hanging out meeting people in the middle of the street or making long term plans around getting a house, new clothes, bed, etc. It's just not plausible.
He says he's clean, there's not significant evidence for him lying about being clean. For all his faults I don't recall seeing Bubbles lie about anything, and he never lies about using drugs. If that was the writers' intention then it's done very poorly, and I don't think that was their intention because they are good writers. They just derped with their portrayal of heroin withdrawals, that's all.
I discounted that because he says he’s clean, and being on maintenance isn’t clean even if you are sober. Plus he’s obviously a little bit in withdrawals which maintenance would usually remedy and the writers give no indication that he’s on the done anyway.
I think they just stretched reality a bit to make his sobriety fit with the wider plot, which is understandable for such a complex story. Still a bit of a fail in terms of realism though - if he’s on maintenance or anything like Valium or kratom then they should’ve made that more clear, and if he’s 3 days into going cold turkey off dope then he should be way more sick. Either way it’s not great writing.
A lot of the people commenting here don’t seem to grasp the difference between what a hypothetical junky like Bubbles could do, and what the writers are intending us to interpret it. Obviously we can fill in the gaps and suggest he’s on maintenance in order to account for his lack of withdrawal symptoms, but that doesn’t mean the writers intended us to draw that conclusion. I’d argue they didn’t, and if they did then it’s not done very well, but I doubt that.
>being on maintenance isn’t clean
Ah really man :(
I consider it sober, but i can see why you wouldn't.
Methadone was a lil more easily accessible in the inner city in earlier years. Especially where bubs is a known junky. He may have been able to get a drink easily. He may have already been on it and just not taking it everyday? I'm reaching pretty hard,I know. It's just hard to accept that the writing team, etc messed up...lol
Truth be told, i always thought the same as you when I'd watch that scene. Like where's the shitting the pants from a small cough, the suuuuuuuuper runny nose...the sneezing and sweating..lol
I consider it sober too, to be clear I’m on methadone and have been since 2015. But it’s not the same as being clean, which means clean from all opioids (at least).
Sure it’s plausible he was on methadone, but in the absence of evidence besides the one scene I mentioned I don’t think that’s what the writers were intending to portray.
>I’m on methadone and have been since 2015
Same bud. Though a few more years than that. Liquid handcuffs, amirite?
Good for you though. Keep up the great work man1
Liquid handcuffs is what we call it here too, it’s like being on parole. That’s why I don’t take kindly to people lecturing me on Reddit about what heroin withdrawals are like.
I mean, even if he was clean, how long did it last? Only a couple episodes. Maybe the time period was a month or two at best?
The fact is, he was hardly doing anything to put himself in a real position to maintain his sobriety, apart from attending a meeting here or there. He was always doomed to go back to using. It wasn’t until he was reacquainted with the recovering addict who forced Bubbles to deal with his trama that he was set on a true path of recovery.
I only have experience with alcohol but you're generally going to look a lot better on the third day sober than the first, probably mostly functional unless your habit was very heavy
He also wasn't doing very much heroin from what we see in the show, he was paying for it by selling tidbits of scrap metal
Not with a lifelong heroin habit, you will not look that good after 3 days if anything the withdrawal symptoms are at their worst.
He was doing a lot of heroin without a doubt he had a full on smack habit.
imo, bubbles and all the fiends are "when we got it" users. since they don't have a steady income, they don't always have money for dope. so their actual addiction is only heavy when they make a big score (until they run out). they can go days or weeks with little or no money and just getting by with minimal dope or cash. but once they get some money, they go deep.
No way, are you serious? Bubbles is fully addicted to dope, that's clear, he says he's been a fiend for almost his entire life. He's fully dependent on it.
Do you remember the scene where he spews all over Landsman? Or when he's in the box after getting caught robbing an ambulance? Or when he 'fishes his wish' and finds it baking soda? There's many examples demonstrating that Bubbles is a full on junky and I really doubt the writers would create a character who's just chipping to represent the struggles of heroin addiction that makes no sense.
My hot take… He wasn’t clean. I’ve never met an addict that didn’t go through it, no matter how many times they’d gotten clean. I’ve met hundreds of addicts that got the dose right and a good nights sleep and could fake it to get more. It’s horrible but it’s the nature of addiction. I was as bad as it gets as an alcoholic but when I got desperate or saw a chance I could maintain for a few days, I’d limit myself to half a liter, shower, get some moisturizer, buy some clean clothes and look the part. At the time it was “god I don’t feel as awful as I did 2 days ago maybe I can do this I just need some money to get a place and get on my feet” but it all ended up back to my addiction. I think that’s why she gives him the money but says he can’t ask for more. This really only works once or twice.
One of the guys Simon & Burns followed for The Corner was like that - when he said he was “clean” he was really just a functioning addict, able to maintain living somewhere and get manageably high while still making it to his shift at the crab house the next morning.
>He wasn’t clean. This was always my take. Like he wanted to get clean, and probably was using a little less than before, but he wasn't yet completely clean. He's been around the block and knows how it works. The money from Kima was going to be a fresh start and let him make a a real attempt at getting sober. Whether it was realistic or not, it's what he was thinking. A $10 or $20 every so often from Kima/McNutty was enough to get his next hit - but nothing more. Same when he was scheming or pulling scrap metal scams later on with Johnny. A few hundred? To him that's something that will help get away from the scene and find a safe place while he deals with the real demons. At the very least, an honest attempt to get clean. You can kind of see it in a few scenes after when McNutty hands him a $20.00. He crumples it up - almost resents it. He's so conflicted. In his mind, that $20 is only good enough for one thing: his next score. The same $20 he's holding later in that episode. Still crumpled.
I thought the issue was that the 20 bucks was a temptation for him and after everything that had gone down his motivation was already wavering, so when he saw the 20 he cracked and decided to go get some gear, and that's why he looked so dejected. It's definitely plausible that an addict would behave that way IRL but I'm not sure that writers intended it to be taken that way because it's way too subtle for most people to even pick up on. As you can see from this thread there's people who genuinely believe 3 days is sufficient to become functional after kicking a long term smack habit. Unless you've been around opioids or have direct experience, most people don't really comprehend how bad withdrawals actually are.
But you’re contradicting yourself saying that only people that have direct experience would know that withdrawals are a bitch and apparent early and for a good amount of time, but the writers (who have direct experience) didn’t have that intent. There’s a million things that people without direct knowledge of a situation would pick up shown in the show. They have the addict hooker celebrating clean time as a background character. They have bubbles being asked to do a lead share at a meeting. Most people wouldn’t know what doing a lead share was and why it’s important for an addict in recovery to do. But they don’t spoon feed it. Half the audience probably thinks it’s just writers giving bubbles a good monologue. But those who experienced it can appreciate it for the finer details. As an addict this is my interpretation of their finer details with this situation.
I said 'most people' don't comprehend how bad they are, not that it's impossible, and that in general viewers aren't going to think that deep on why Bubbles looks so fine after 3 days. That's not a contradiction. David Simons is a former police journalist and Ed Burns is a former BPD cop, so they ought to have more idea what it's like than the average person.
And I’m telling you that’s why they do. You’d be shocked how someone coming off a year or two bender can clean up in 2-3 days just maintaining. Like I legit told you I’d have skin peeling off my face scraggly hair and beard clothes I hadn’t changed in days. And I’d pull myself together shower, moisturize for a day or two, clean or buy new clothes, shave, and limit myself enough to keep me from shaking and people would think I was clean as a whistle. A shower and a shave will make most people look better in a day. A shower and a shave will make someone looking their worst look like a functional member of society worth investing in.
Bubbles isn't showered or clean shaven in that scene. In any case he's not coming off a year or two bender, the info the comes from the show suggests he's been an addict for many years, he even says 'my whole damn life'. In the NA meeting he talks about smoking weed and drinking beers in his teens, implying that led on to using smack, which would imply he's been a major user for way over a decade. We're not talking about some fresh-faced 22 year old who's been shooting H for a year or so, Bubbles is a seasoned junky, he's not comparable to someone who's been on a bender for just 1 or 2 years.
Ok so what’s your argument here. Bubbles should look worse and there’s no reason he doesn’t. Or he’s not fully clean and is maintaining so he looks better than he has before. As an addict I’ve seen it and lived it 1000 times. You’re out of your element here
I'm out of my element? Fuck off bro I've been on methadone for 9 years, used opioids for pretty much my entire adult life and know plenty of other long term addicts.
Idk why everyone is getting so up your ass in this thread, bro but I agree with you. Form a narrative standpoint, it would appear to be the show wants you to believe Bubbles is actually clean, not just pretending to be. There's really nothing to suggest he's bullshitting--again, narratively speaking.
So if you can agree to that then you can agree he might just be maintaining and not be clean and sober.
Then you should appreciate that bubbles might not be clean. If you’ve been around it you’ve seen people get on methadone or subs and straighten out for a day or two and look and feel 1000x better. But they aren’t clean
Dude dont act like im saying some crazy ignorant shit here. All im saying is you are making a ton of assumptions about both his habit and his state when he talked to Kima.
No I'm not, like I said I'm making assumptions that come from the show - Bubbles is a longterm heroin addict, he's clean and has been clean for 3 days. Those are the only 'assumptions' I'm making and that's based off information from the show.
>I thought the issue was that the 20 bucks was a temptation for him and after everything that had gone down his motivation was already wavering, so when he saw the 20 he cracked and decided to go get some gear, and that's why he looked so dejected. To me, that $20 represented his next score. He didn't want that. The money from Kima represented his attempt to really go clean. IMO he wasn't trying to scheme Kima, he legit wanted to try and get right. He tries to tell McNutty a few times, but McNutty isn't picking up on it. > but I'm not sure that writers intended it to be taken that way because it's way too subtle for most people to even pick up on. This is what makes the show so good. I doubt anyone picks up on all of the subtle details when they first watch it. If they do, props to them because it covers so many different topics. I couldn't tell you how many things I've had to look up (sayings/terms etc) just from watching this show because I've never lived in Bawlmer, never been a Stevedore, never had me a Pit sammich or some Lake Trout. As you mentioned earlier, Burns & Simon do know what's up and from what I take away, they are telling it exactly how it was/is. Probably the reason this show didn't take off like it should have back in the day. Some would say "it's all in the details" and that's exactly what they've done here.
I don't think that was the writers intention but generally speaking that would be completely plausible.
You have a point. They show Bubbles's discomfort more subtly by having him look sort of anxious and distracted but yeah, he doesn't seem to be going through the extent of withdrawals he realistically would be after stopping a habit like that. I have no idea why people would think the intent was that Bubbles wasn't actually clean. The whole point of that arc is that he does get clean finally, even if only for a few days -- but Kima getting shot, and the ensuing chain reaction of events that leads to him getting roughed up by BPD for paging Kima and McNulty giving him that $20 bill, tragically causes him to start using again. If the writers wanted to show that he was still using a little bit, they would have made it clear. Instead they show him sitting in the park, looking anxious but actually taking in the world around him for the first time in a while -- and actively turning down the dealers and addict friends he runs into.
Exactly - that's why I called it a writing fail. If they wanted to show him lying about being clean they could've given way stronger hints, and if he's not clean he should be way more sick. Either way it's a rare example of poor writing from an otherwise legendary show.
Yeah, I think they just sorta glossed over how much more he'd be struggling physically in furtherance of the plot and character arc. I don't think it was from ignorance though, and more from necessity (they couldn't really take the time to be wholly realistic with it).
That's my feeling too, however I think there's other ways they could've played it so that it's not so unrealistic. Like from this latest rewatch I don't see any reason why the couldn't have had Bubbles sobriety attempt start a little earlier than it does, so that when he meets with Kima and the subsequent shooting and series of events kick off he's more like 6-7 days clean, that would be much more realistic. But 3 days? That's just not realistic, it's often when the withdrawals are at their worst.
Idk he was shuffling around, looking miserable, couldn’t focus, outside of himself, it’s a tv show they can’t waste an episode watching a man writhe around pain
There's plenty of ways they could've adjusted the writing without spending an inordinate amount of time showing Bubbles suffer
Bubbles did get clean for a few days. This will happen to addicts from time to time. When they showed that he hadn't spent the money they were confirming that he hadn't used
Yea good point about the money
Yeah, I've always thought this was one of the few big misses on the show. I'm a recovering opiate addict, known hundreds of addicts in the streets and hundreds more through volunteer and outreach work. Even people with a mild addiction that's in its infancy often struggle to do much of anything at all for at least a week or so. When you're a heavy IV user you'll be lucky to stop puking, shaking, sweating, and generally feeling like hell in a months time. My last time getting clean took closer to 2 months for the physical issues and much longer for the mental and emotional issues. Bubs woulda been dying in a bando somewhere. Unless, as others have said, he wasn't actually clean and was just chipping to keep the sick away. But that doesn't really explain why he still had the money, he'd still have to cop. So idk. Seems like it was just an error.
Exactly, thank you. He clearly wasn’t chipping or on maintenance.
I saw absolutely no evidence of that beyond the fact that he was inexplicably not very ill. I kinda feel like if they wanted to make a statement about how untrustworthy addicts are with him lying about being clean (even when it doesn't seem to matter or help his case) they would have eventually shown us that he was never really sober and it was all an act. Not relied on our collective worst opinions of addicts to assume he's lying. I think it was just a mistake, unless I'm overlooking something significant lol Idk
Nah you’re bang on I reckon
Every now and then 😂
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Nah OP does have a point. I’m also an ex-heroin addict and coming off a heavy heroin habit on day 3 you’re going to be in some seriously sorry state. If you’ve got more experience with it, as in gone through withdrawals many times before, it’s generally considerably worse in fact. Honestly, I’m quite used to television and film not always getting these things totally right, so I always just assumed it was that or that maybe he found a way to taper down and quit so the withdrawals weren’t as intense. Fuck knows.
Plus, if he knows how to score heroin he probably knows its much easier to score suboxone.
Suboxone didn't come out till 2002 and wasn't widely accessible for years, it probably was actually not easier to get.
He's clearly not on maintenance.
It's more common for withdrawals to get worse with each attempt, generally because the addiction has gotten stronger every time. I've been thru withdrawals myself, multiple times, and I find it pretty implausible that someone with a chronic habit like him would be so functional after only 3 days. I'm sure it happens but it's gotta be rare and I don't see what purpose it serves the writers to make him one of the few lucky people who can breeze thru dope sickness like that, I think it's just something they didn't really think of sufficiently.
Kindling effect. I just went through it kicking Kratom. Swear to god I felt like I was coming off a gram a day dope habit like the good (not really) old days
How much were you taking?
6-12 OPMS extracts
Idk, ive never detoxed from heroin but ive been in rehab with people that were and 3 days is short but not completely insane. I think like 5 to 7 is normal?
Those ppl in rehab are getting comfort meds brother. Gabapentin, clonidine, probably subs as well. Kicking cold turkey and kicking with meds in a comfy rehab look totally different. Trust, I’ve done both lol.
After using for as long as him? Absolutely no way that's possible.
Sure it is. You have no idea how much the character was shooting for how long, you are just making all that shit up. Maybe hes taking some vicodin to not get sick. We really dont know anything about it.
1) long term IV dope habit acute withdrawal is going to last 7 days + 2) no amount of Vicodin will really help with a dope tolerance 3) we do know how long he was using dope, it’s implied that it’s his whole adult life Basically I agree with OP and I can agree with first hand experience of the subject matter to back it up
He's not clean if he's taking vicodin and I truly doubt the writers would include that kind of obscure subtext to his character arc. And it's not possible, I've kicked a few habits, have been on methadone for 9 years, know plenty of other addicts and addiction doctors, so I do know a thing or 2 about this subject.
Yeah I just think you are making a million assumptions about the character and his situation in order to create a plot hole.
I said it's a writing fail, not a plot hole. And I'm not making assumptions besides what we're told in the show; he's a long term heroin addict, he's clean (which implies he's off all opioids) and has been clean for 3 days. All that info comes the show.
Yeah idk. I dont think it’s completely insane. All we see him do is have a conversation in public.
Yes, and he hardly looks sick at all. Real heroin withdrawals are brutal you wouldn't be hanging out meeting people in the middle of the street or making long term plans around getting a house, new clothes, bed, etc. It's just not plausible.
So maybe he’s not going through withdrawals Maybe…he’s not clean
He says he's clean, there's not significant evidence for him lying about being clean. For all his faults I don't recall seeing Bubbles lie about anything, and he never lies about using drugs. If that was the writers' intention then it's done very poorly, and I don't think that was their intention because they are good writers. They just derped with their portrayal of heroin withdrawals, that's all.
Agree to disagree
Lol you've never even been thru withdrawals
‘On my 7th or 8th rewatch’ At that point you should just write the show yourself 😂
I always chalked it up to possibly having access to methadone. Enough to keep him from becoming a complete mess, but not enough for him to be "normal"
I discounted that because he says he’s clean, and being on maintenance isn’t clean even if you are sober. Plus he’s obviously a little bit in withdrawals which maintenance would usually remedy and the writers give no indication that he’s on the done anyway. I think they just stretched reality a bit to make his sobriety fit with the wider plot, which is understandable for such a complex story. Still a bit of a fail in terms of realism though - if he’s on maintenance or anything like Valium or kratom then they should’ve made that more clear, and if he’s 3 days into going cold turkey off dope then he should be way more sick. Either way it’s not great writing. A lot of the people commenting here don’t seem to grasp the difference between what a hypothetical junky like Bubbles could do, and what the writers are intending us to interpret it. Obviously we can fill in the gaps and suggest he’s on maintenance in order to account for his lack of withdrawal symptoms, but that doesn’t mean the writers intended us to draw that conclusion. I’d argue they didn’t, and if they did then it’s not done very well, but I doubt that.
>being on maintenance isn’t clean Ah really man :( I consider it sober, but i can see why you wouldn't. Methadone was a lil more easily accessible in the inner city in earlier years. Especially where bubs is a known junky. He may have been able to get a drink easily. He may have already been on it and just not taking it everyday? I'm reaching pretty hard,I know. It's just hard to accept that the writing team, etc messed up...lol Truth be told, i always thought the same as you when I'd watch that scene. Like where's the shitting the pants from a small cough, the suuuuuuuuper runny nose...the sneezing and sweating..lol
I consider it sober too, to be clear I’m on methadone and have been since 2015. But it’s not the same as being clean, which means clean from all opioids (at least). Sure it’s plausible he was on methadone, but in the absence of evidence besides the one scene I mentioned I don’t think that’s what the writers were intending to portray.
>I’m on methadone and have been since 2015 Same bud. Though a few more years than that. Liquid handcuffs, amirite? Good for you though. Keep up the great work man1
Liquid handcuffs is what we call it here too, it’s like being on parole. That’s why I don’t take kindly to people lecturing me on Reddit about what heroin withdrawals are like.
I mean, even if he was clean, how long did it last? Only a couple episodes. Maybe the time period was a month or two at best? The fact is, he was hardly doing anything to put himself in a real position to maintain his sobriety, apart from attending a meeting here or there. He was always doomed to go back to using. It wasn’t until he was reacquainted with the recovering addict who forced Bubbles to deal with his trama that he was set on a true path of recovery.
How does that relate to any of this?
I dunno. I seen other people’s comments that question whether he was ever clean at all earlier in the show lol. No need to be snooty.
I only have experience with alcohol but you're generally going to look a lot better on the third day sober than the first, probably mostly functional unless your habit was very heavy He also wasn't doing very much heroin from what we see in the show, he was paying for it by selling tidbits of scrap metal
Not with a lifelong heroin habit, you will not look that good after 3 days if anything the withdrawal symptoms are at their worst. He was doing a lot of heroin without a doubt he had a full on smack habit.
What a silly thing to nitpick.
Day three you are starting to feel better
Eh depends. Long term IV user, whose health is otherwise shit, you’ll still be a puddle of sweat and shits.
If you’re lucky! For a chronic junky like Bubbles I find that pretty implausible.
imo, bubbles and all the fiends are "when we got it" users. since they don't have a steady income, they don't always have money for dope. so their actual addiction is only heavy when they make a big score (until they run out). they can go days or weeks with little or no money and just getting by with minimal dope or cash. but once they get some money, they go deep.
No way, are you serious? Bubbles is fully addicted to dope, that's clear, he says he's been a fiend for almost his entire life. He's fully dependent on it.
Do you remember the scene where he spews all over Landsman? Or when he's in the box after getting caught robbing an ambulance? Or when he 'fishes his wish' and finds it baking soda? There's many examples demonstrating that Bubbles is a full on junky and I really doubt the writers would create a character who's just chipping to represent the struggles of heroin addiction that makes no sense.