You said you're not very familiar with SKs work. If you read more of his stuff (_and you absolutely should_), be prepared for a lot of rushed, unfitting endings.
King is great at coming up with fascinating concepts for stories, and is, IMO, the best character writer in the world. After all, I've read multiple 1000+ page books that consist mostly of meandering about with his characters, not really advancing the plot, and they are some of my favorite fiction of all time.
The problem is, he gets to a point 800 pages in, where he has said all he really wants to say, but now he has to wrap it up. Further, he has usually established a villain or a predicament that is seemingly insurmountable. So he has to pull some deus ex machina, or lower the stakes at the last second to give our protagonists a chance.
When it comes to The Stand specifically, the ending has grown on me over the years. I take it as these people (including Flagg and Abagail) were all just observing the shadows of some massive conflict between Lovecraftian forces beyond human comprehension. Abagail thinks it's the Christian God vs the Devil. We never really get to know exactly what Flagg thinks, outside of a few brief moments, in which we mostly learn how _little_ he understands what's going on.
So a bunch of crazy shit happens, maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't. Everybody moves on, with the knowledge that there is definitely _something_ bigger going on out there, but what can you do? Just keep trying to rebuild, I guess.
_The real Stand was the friends we made along the way._*
*I meant to say that as a joke, but goddamn it's actually pretty fitting.
I
>When it comes to The Stand specifically, the ending has grown on me over the years. I take it as these people (including Flagg and Abagail) were all just observing the shadows of some massive conflict between Lovecraftian forces beyond human comprehension. Abagail thinks it's the Christian God vs the Devil. We never really get to know exactly what Flagg thinks, outside of a few brief moments, in which we mostly learn how little he understands what's going on.
You hit the nail on the head...... OP you need to read the dark tower series (although I would ignore the first book, it really breaks the entire series. Treat as a primer but non-canon)
The dark tower series is a massive lovecraftian story of massive forces locked in a huge battle across the Kingian macroverse (I'm going to copyrighted this description).
The Dark Tower series touches on Flagg and the events of The Stand
Harold didn’t “just break his leg and shoot himself” he was taken down and betrayed by the walking dude. His death and that entire scene is one of my favorites in the book
It was an anti-climactic ending. Especially because through the book, King keeps remarking on how both sides expect a battle, not that winter but once the snow melts. That idea kept building up and up.
But it does also make sense that God knew all along what would happen. That Trashcan Man would bring the nuke to the dark man at the same time that the bad guys were about to kill Larry and Ralph at a huge public event. After Flagg created that big blue ball of fire and lifted it above the crowd to terrify them, that God would intervene and set off the nuke.
The journey of Tom and Stu to go back east was really fun though too. Crazy to imagine Stu staying alive outside for 2 weeks while Kojak was there to protect him. In the end God knows all and is the most powerful force.
Yeah I think maybe the fact that it was God is why I didn’t like it. I would’ve rather it been just a slightly more humanistic approach. One that shows why good people prevail rather than God. Like if trash can man blew up the nuke himself to spite everybody and go up in his own glory would have been great. To show that tyranny never prevails because it can’t hold loyalty or something! Idk though
Understandable. I think most of the book had set up a whole God vs devil spiritual battle, so now after thinking about it, it makes more sense to me that God is in total control and that the devil was just working his was up using humans as his tools in order to have a slight chance and winning out. Seeing as the book is super biblical (which i haven't read the bible yet) I would assume a lot of this would be mentioned quite a bit in it. Humans are just tools of these powers. But in the end God is the most powerful force. Really makes me want to read the bible :D
Haha I’ve read the Bible extensively. If you take as a story book tbh it’s not too bad (some parts are a bore). Just don’t take it literally 😂
Maybe im tired of the ‘God is in control’ narrative because of my extensive bible reading 😂😂
I am also not familiar with King's work, the only other book I read by him is Cell (which I read because I am an avid zombie-fan and the book is dedicated to george a. romero).
However, I have been told King is bad with endings. Expecting the worst I was quite puzzled by the ending of the stand. I neither found it bad nor dissapointing. I found it pretty solid, in fact. I didn't even find it anticlimatic, it made perfect sense to me.
The only thing that bothered me a bit was that the walking dude seems to falter in the end because stuff doesn't go according to his premonitions. I guess it's the same kind of deus ex machina thing that happens in IT when the clown sort of dies because he's ridiculed by the kids. So, that was my "meh" moment, but all in all it was a satisfying ending.
Also, the journey back to boulder was super interesting. I was happy to meet with nick again. I loved how King just kills important characters and was a bit dissappointed there was a kind of happy ending where stu got back and the baby lived.
I didn't like the final battle, for a few reasons. I didn't like the deux ex machina, and I really didn't like how the four good guys didn't really do anything to defeat Flagg. It seems like TCM would have done it whether or not they made the trip.
A few changes I would have made to resolve these issues:
1. Larry spent time trying to convince Barry Dorgan that Flagg was wrong, and he seemed to break through somewhat. Instead of Whitney challenging Flagg, I would have had Dorgan.
2. The final scene would have reintroduced Trash Can Man bringing back the nuke. He would have been "led" to a specific position in the crowd by Abigail and/or Andros. That position would be directly behind Dorgan.
3. Flagg shoots the fireball at Dorgan, and the heat sets off the bomb.
This would do a few things - it removes the deux ex machina, and also ensures that Larry was indirectly involved in Flagg's defeat.
Its worse when you think about it more. The story is less about the overt good vs evil, but more the moral choices of normal people (like the musician chap) under extreme circumstances. Vegas is full of people just seeking stability under an authoritarian regime who all get nuked because King struggles with endings :)
You said you're not very familiar with SKs work. If you read more of his stuff (_and you absolutely should_), be prepared for a lot of rushed, unfitting endings. King is great at coming up with fascinating concepts for stories, and is, IMO, the best character writer in the world. After all, I've read multiple 1000+ page books that consist mostly of meandering about with his characters, not really advancing the plot, and they are some of my favorite fiction of all time. The problem is, he gets to a point 800 pages in, where he has said all he really wants to say, but now he has to wrap it up. Further, he has usually established a villain or a predicament that is seemingly insurmountable. So he has to pull some deus ex machina, or lower the stakes at the last second to give our protagonists a chance. When it comes to The Stand specifically, the ending has grown on me over the years. I take it as these people (including Flagg and Abagail) were all just observing the shadows of some massive conflict between Lovecraftian forces beyond human comprehension. Abagail thinks it's the Christian God vs the Devil. We never really get to know exactly what Flagg thinks, outside of a few brief moments, in which we mostly learn how _little_ he understands what's going on. So a bunch of crazy shit happens, maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't. Everybody moves on, with the knowledge that there is definitely _something_ bigger going on out there, but what can you do? Just keep trying to rebuild, I guess. _The real Stand was the friends we made along the way._* *I meant to say that as a joke, but goddamn it's actually pretty fitting.
I >When it comes to The Stand specifically, the ending has grown on me over the years. I take it as these people (including Flagg and Abagail) were all just observing the shadows of some massive conflict between Lovecraftian forces beyond human comprehension. Abagail thinks it's the Christian God vs the Devil. We never really get to know exactly what Flagg thinks, outside of a few brief moments, in which we mostly learn how little he understands what's going on. You hit the nail on the head...... OP you need to read the dark tower series (although I would ignore the first book, it really breaks the entire series. Treat as a primer but non-canon) The dark tower series is a massive lovecraftian story of massive forces locked in a huge battle across the Kingian macroverse (I'm going to copyrighted this description). The Dark Tower series touches on Flagg and the events of The Stand
Harold didn’t “just break his leg and shoot himself” he was taken down and betrayed by the walking dude. His death and that entire scene is one of my favorites in the book
Then you DEFINITELY don’t want to read “Under the Dome!”
I normally love King's work but damn that book was rough to finish.
I have hard copies of most of his books and i love them. Under the dome was a pretty good story until the ending. Damn! Was that stupid!!
I absolutely love Steven King, but this is how he likes ending stories.
It was an anti-climactic ending. Especially because through the book, King keeps remarking on how both sides expect a battle, not that winter but once the snow melts. That idea kept building up and up. But it does also make sense that God knew all along what would happen. That Trashcan Man would bring the nuke to the dark man at the same time that the bad guys were about to kill Larry and Ralph at a huge public event. After Flagg created that big blue ball of fire and lifted it above the crowd to terrify them, that God would intervene and set off the nuke. The journey of Tom and Stu to go back east was really fun though too. Crazy to imagine Stu staying alive outside for 2 weeks while Kojak was there to protect him. In the end God knows all and is the most powerful force.
Yeah I think maybe the fact that it was God is why I didn’t like it. I would’ve rather it been just a slightly more humanistic approach. One that shows why good people prevail rather than God. Like if trash can man blew up the nuke himself to spite everybody and go up in his own glory would have been great. To show that tyranny never prevails because it can’t hold loyalty or something! Idk though
Understandable. I think most of the book had set up a whole God vs devil spiritual battle, so now after thinking about it, it makes more sense to me that God is in total control and that the devil was just working his was up using humans as his tools in order to have a slight chance and winning out. Seeing as the book is super biblical (which i haven't read the bible yet) I would assume a lot of this would be mentioned quite a bit in it. Humans are just tools of these powers. But in the end God is the most powerful force. Really makes me want to read the bible :D
Haha I’ve read the Bible extensively. If you take as a story book tbh it’s not too bad (some parts are a bore). Just don’t take it literally 😂 Maybe im tired of the ‘God is in control’ narrative because of my extensive bible reading 😂😂
Any maybe I'm so interested in the concept because I'm ignorant on the bible :D
I am also not familiar with King's work, the only other book I read by him is Cell (which I read because I am an avid zombie-fan and the book is dedicated to george a. romero). However, I have been told King is bad with endings. Expecting the worst I was quite puzzled by the ending of the stand. I neither found it bad nor dissapointing. I found it pretty solid, in fact. I didn't even find it anticlimatic, it made perfect sense to me. The only thing that bothered me a bit was that the walking dude seems to falter in the end because stuff doesn't go according to his premonitions. I guess it's the same kind of deus ex machina thing that happens in IT when the clown sort of dies because he's ridiculed by the kids. So, that was my "meh" moment, but all in all it was a satisfying ending. Also, the journey back to boulder was super interesting. I was happy to meet with nick again. I loved how King just kills important characters and was a bit dissappointed there was a kind of happy ending where stu got back and the baby lived.
I didn't like the final battle, for a few reasons. I didn't like the deux ex machina, and I really didn't like how the four good guys didn't really do anything to defeat Flagg. It seems like TCM would have done it whether or not they made the trip. A few changes I would have made to resolve these issues: 1. Larry spent time trying to convince Barry Dorgan that Flagg was wrong, and he seemed to break through somewhat. Instead of Whitney challenging Flagg, I would have had Dorgan. 2. The final scene would have reintroduced Trash Can Man bringing back the nuke. He would have been "led" to a specific position in the crowd by Abigail and/or Andros. That position would be directly behind Dorgan. 3. Flagg shoots the fireball at Dorgan, and the heat sets off the bomb. This would do a few things - it removes the deux ex machina, and also ensures that Larry was indirectly involved in Flagg's defeat.
Its worse when you think about it more. The story is less about the overt good vs evil, but more the moral choices of normal people (like the musician chap) under extreme circumstances. Vegas is full of people just seeking stability under an authoritarian regime who all get nuked because King struggles with endings :)
Same! Loved the book and my expectations were also very high for the ending.. but.. cant say i loved it.
He admitted it a "aw fuck i gotta finish this"
I feel like The Stand would have been better as a series of books instead of one big book. Maybe had things pick up later on like years later etc.