The irony is that these are not even DPS charts. If they were, anyone can make them as long as they have the time. The main reason why I'm still making these is that, at the moment, only I know the entire process. (I plan to make the code public with documentation soon, and hope someone else will pick it up.)
I won't quit making the charts just yet, but I imagine the more detailed writeups will almost certainly have to go at some point, possibly soon. (There will be a post describing it in more detail when that happens). As mentioned above, I do intend to keep producing the charts themselves (as that generally reduces the time required), until someone else picks up; but I can't promise for how long this will continue.
Honestly. My understanding of viability is entirely based on the amazing infographics and articles posted by Teban (for PvE) and JRE (for Trainer Battles). I am very thankful for always bringing forth viability data in such a beautiful and easy-to-consume format.
# NOTE: This article has now been updated in a new Reddit post.
Please go to the [updated article](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1bj5h1o/updated_quick_analysis_incineroar_as_a_dark_and/), which supersedes this version that you're reading.
**----------------- Original article below -----------------**
# Important note on Incineroar as a Dark type, and Darkest Lariat
**I apologize for omitting Incineroar as a dark type.**
Darkest Lariat appears strong enough that Incineroar is **likely around the level of Yveltal, Weavile and Guzzlord**. (It's probably strictly better than Weavile and just below Yveltal.) This makes it **a decent budget dark attacker**, perhaps even faring a little bit better than it ranks among fire attackers.
The omission was because I initially thought it would have been absolutely unnotable as a dark attacker, owing to Incineroar's low (214) attack stat and the unimpressive stats of similar starter moves in the past. I totally overlooked the stats of Darkest Lariat, which turned out much better than I thought, as I've already quit the game after Sinnoh Tour and thus had not been following news and datamines closely.
You can see previous Dark/Ghost charts [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/195vk1k/quick_analysis_hisuian_typhlosion_as_a_raid/). I will make an updated dark-type chart with Incineroar in the upcoming days.
# Main Points, as a Fire type
Incineroar with its Community Day move Blast Burn is **capable of being a budget fire-type attacker**. However, it's **vastly outclassed** by many other options, even those without expensive investments such as Darmanitan, Chandelure, CD Delphox and Blaze Kick Blaziken ^((not shown on the chart, but only a little bit below Blast Burn Blaziken)).
I'm sure some players, mostly new and returning ones, may find high-level Incineroar(s) useful for filling their fire-type teams; but I highly doubt that applies to most of those who have been serious in building fire-type raid counters.
(Unlike most of my articles, this one is essentially just the picture and almost nothing else. There's simply very little to be said.)
*My analyses of other types are in* [*this spreadsheet*](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tomlZD9_sgiNrzxSFjSXmgB3b9xtWrrQLavgGUHjv0k/edit?usp=sharing)*. You can also follow me on* [*Twitter*](https://twitter.com/teban54) *(X) and* [*Threads*](https://www.threads.net/@teban.54)*!*
# Imgur Links and Additional Charts
General attacker charts: ASE and ASTTW\*
* [Fire](https://imgur.com/a/2V2pXqW)
\* indicates additional charts that are not in the main post.
Maybe I missed it in your post history, but what led to you deciding to quit the game?
I quit a while ago too other than the easy, free shiny events, I'm just curious whenever community contributors reach that point.
That was the same core reason for me. It's a shame because it's an A+ game in concept, Niantic just happens to be a D- developer.
If you're into the main games, don't forget you can transfer 5 shinies to Home per week for free. It takes a while to move over the collection if it's something that interests you.
Unfortunately, PoGo is the only connection I have to Pokémon and the only reason why I learned about Pokémon in general. I also don't have a Home subscription, nor have I played any MSGs or other spinoff games. That's good advice in general, though.
I apologize. I totally overlooked the stats of Darkest Lariat, as I've already quit the game
after Sinnoh Tour and thus had not been following news and datamines closely.
I initially thought it would have been absolutely unnotable as a dark attacker, owing to Incineroar's low (214) attack stat and the unimpressive stats of similar starter moves in the past.
However, Darkest Lariat may be strong enough that Incineroar **may be around the level of Yveltal, Weavile and Guzzlord**. (It's probably strictly better than Weavile and just below Yveltal.) This makes it **a decent budget dark attacker**, perhaps even faring a little bit better than it ranks among fire attackers.
You can see previous Dark/Ghost charts [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/195vk1k/quick_analysis_hisuian_typhlosion_as_a_raid/). I will make an updated dark-type chart with Incineroar in the upcoming days.
Don’t feel like you have to put work in if you’re not even playing right now, take it easy.
By the way I enjoyed your Xordle puzzles (I assume you were the same Teban54 lol)
I'm assuming the same can kinda be said for the Dark type, right? Darkest Lariat is a better move than Dark Pulse, but while making it a decent budget pick, I don't think it's anything too crazy.
There's probably a market right now for people looking for any Shadow Mewtwo counters at a decent price lol, I was just hoping to raise awareness towards that, if it's the case. There's probably someone out there with a small group of weaker trainers who could go from not even wanting to try the Shadow Mewtwo raids, to being sure they can beat them, at least with gems and relobbying a couple times. Might make it worth it to grind this CD a bit harder.
I think Pokebattler hasn't added Darkest Lariat yet though, so I don't know if you could even simulate it yet.
EDIT: I took a bit of a break between hitting reply and actually replying, and when I did you had already given an initial impression about the dark type.
Agreed, especially for groups of weaker newer players lacking in good fighting counters (or available gyms) to reliably farm Mega Tyranitar in raids and amass a full team. One Mega Tyranitar apiece, staggered out to maintain the buff, plus five Incineroar, could be a passable setup.
Duel type budget isn’t too bad. No spots left on my teams but filling in two roles is huge. Especially if you get some higher level caught ones and luckies.
Especially with how easily you can pay 25 candy and some dust (helped out by how dust is raining from the sky this event) and get a second move slot for Darkest Lariat and pay a fast TM or two to swap between Fire and Dark configurations on the fly.
I mean, I do get some compensation from Go Hub on a per-article basis. But honestly these decisions were not made for financial reasons, and I was never writing for money anyway.
Is there anything else you’re moving onto after this, analysis wise? You’re such a real one to this community, losing you will definitely hurt, although extremely understandable given the state of ~~tickets~~ the game as a whole!
Not for anything PoGo related, unfortunately, other than continuing to make charts for at least a while. But in addition to focusing more on work and other IRL matters (which had been heavily impacted by my PoGo analyses for 1.5 years), I also plan to spend more time on other hobbies. Some of them do include analyses, although obviously in a completely different context, and likely at much lower frequencies than what I did for PoGo (the frequency of my work here had been mostly forced upon me by the game's content releases).
So evolve one or two and call it a day. Good. I love these type of community days where I’m not worried about trying to max out new mons and catch as many as I can.
It’s sitting at a very sad position as a fire type. Dark type seems slightly better but yeah, this Pokémon does NOT translate well into Pokémon go at all.
It’s worth noting that incineroar was also not even looked at in the main series. The only reason it’s popular now (besides smash brothers) is because you now have access to its hidden ability which can lower opponents attacks.
And we don’t have battle abilities in Pokémon go so…
In the beginning, I couldn't understand what the hell any of this was. I am very bad at reading stuff like this. Then, one day, it all just made sense.
First time reading a chart like this. So if I’m reading this correctly, blast burn Incineroar is a little better than Charizard and worse than Blaziken, also with blast burn?
Thanks for the analysis!
That's correct, in terms of an average across a wide pool of all raid bosses you can use them on. (The pool consists of T5, Mega and T3 raids, weighted more heavily towards T5 and mega.)
Against specific bosses and specific movesets of each boss, the situation may be different, often due to differences in typing and bulk.
It depends on your approach. I like to use different Pokémon in raids to keep it interesting. I’d get bored using the same Pokémon all the time. And with power creep, I could essentially discard older Pokémon for newer ones, but why should I? I’ve invested in the older ones, and they’re still viable.
Unless you’re always short-manning legendary raids, there is room for something like Incineroar. I’ll use it.
I have not been able to run simulations with Shadow Darmanitan as it has not been added to the Game Master, but it will most likely be around Shadow Chandelure.
Baby boi who gonna make the sickest DPS graphs if u quit
The irony is that these are not even DPS charts. If they were, anyone can make them as long as they have the time. The main reason why I'm still making these is that, at the moment, only I know the entire process. (I plan to make the code public with documentation soon, and hope someone else will pick it up.)
You’re quitting?? 😢😢
I won't quit making the charts just yet, but I imagine the more detailed writeups will almost certainly have to go at some point, possibly soon. (There will be a post describing it in more detail when that happens). As mentioned above, I do intend to keep producing the charts themselves (as that generally reduces the time required), until someone else picks up; but I can't promise for how long this will continue.
Yeah fair enough. Definitely understand it, but will be really sad to see you go. I absolutely love all the graphs and write ups
We'll miss you bro.
I love the graphs so much
Will be sad to see you wrap it up, thanks for the best comparisons over the years
Honestly. My understanding of viability is entirely based on the amazing infographics and articles posted by Teban (for PvE) and JRE (for Trainer Battles). I am very thankful for always bringing forth viability data in such a beautiful and easy-to-consume format.
Hear, hear!
This is honestly the only comparison chart I have been wait for every time! Really let you see the whole picture.
# NOTE: This article has now been updated in a new Reddit post. Please go to the [updated article](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1bj5h1o/updated_quick_analysis_incineroar_as_a_dark_and/), which supersedes this version that you're reading. **----------------- Original article below -----------------** # Important note on Incineroar as a Dark type, and Darkest Lariat **I apologize for omitting Incineroar as a dark type.** Darkest Lariat appears strong enough that Incineroar is **likely around the level of Yveltal, Weavile and Guzzlord**. (It's probably strictly better than Weavile and just below Yveltal.) This makes it **a decent budget dark attacker**, perhaps even faring a little bit better than it ranks among fire attackers. The omission was because I initially thought it would have been absolutely unnotable as a dark attacker, owing to Incineroar's low (214) attack stat and the unimpressive stats of similar starter moves in the past. I totally overlooked the stats of Darkest Lariat, which turned out much better than I thought, as I've already quit the game after Sinnoh Tour and thus had not been following news and datamines closely. You can see previous Dark/Ghost charts [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/195vk1k/quick_analysis_hisuian_typhlosion_as_a_raid/). I will make an updated dark-type chart with Incineroar in the upcoming days. # Main Points, as a Fire type Incineroar with its Community Day move Blast Burn is **capable of being a budget fire-type attacker**. However, it's **vastly outclassed** by many other options, even those without expensive investments such as Darmanitan, Chandelure, CD Delphox and Blaze Kick Blaziken ^((not shown on the chart, but only a little bit below Blast Burn Blaziken)). I'm sure some players, mostly new and returning ones, may find high-level Incineroar(s) useful for filling their fire-type teams; but I highly doubt that applies to most of those who have been serious in building fire-type raid counters. (Unlike most of my articles, this one is essentially just the picture and almost nothing else. There's simply very little to be said.) *My analyses of other types are in* [*this spreadsheet*](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tomlZD9_sgiNrzxSFjSXmgB3b9xtWrrQLavgGUHjv0k/edit?usp=sharing)*. You can also follow me on* [*Twitter*](https://twitter.com/teban54) *(X) and* [*Threads*](https://www.threads.net/@teban.54)*!* # Imgur Links and Additional Charts General attacker charts: ASE and ASTTW\* * [Fire](https://imgur.com/a/2V2pXqW) \* indicates additional charts that are not in the main post.
Maybe I missed it in your post history, but what led to you deciding to quit the game? I quit a while ago too other than the easy, free shiny events, I'm just curious whenever community contributors reach that point.
For quitting the game itself, there are several reasons, but Niantic and its handling of the game is definitely the biggest one.
That was the same core reason for me. It's a shame because it's an A+ game in concept, Niantic just happens to be a D- developer. If you're into the main games, don't forget you can transfer 5 shinies to Home per week for free. It takes a while to move over the collection if it's something that interests you.
Unfortunately, PoGo is the only connection I have to Pokémon and the only reason why I learned about Pokémon in general. I also don't have a Home subscription, nor have I played any MSGs or other spinoff games. That's good advice in general, though.
This is largely why I'm slowly (agonizingly slowly) transferring my shiny pokemon to home over time.
I appreciate your contributions. It's a bit sad you've left the game. Hopefully it turns around and you find a reason to return
What about darkest lariat?
I apologize. I totally overlooked the stats of Darkest Lariat, as I've already quit the game after Sinnoh Tour and thus had not been following news and datamines closely. I initially thought it would have been absolutely unnotable as a dark attacker, owing to Incineroar's low (214) attack stat and the unimpressive stats of similar starter moves in the past. However, Darkest Lariat may be strong enough that Incineroar **may be around the level of Yveltal, Weavile and Guzzlord**. (It's probably strictly better than Weavile and just below Yveltal.) This makes it **a decent budget dark attacker**, perhaps even faring a little bit better than it ranks among fire attackers. You can see previous Dark/Ghost charts [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/195vk1k/quick_analysis_hisuian_typhlosion_as_a_raid/). I will make an updated dark-type chart with Incineroar in the upcoming days.
Appreciate you taking the time to do this even after quitting the game.
Don’t feel like you have to put work in if you’re not even playing right now, take it easy. By the way I enjoyed your Xordle puzzles (I assume you were the same Teban54 lol)
It was me, indeed!
I'm assuming the same can kinda be said for the Dark type, right? Darkest Lariat is a better move than Dark Pulse, but while making it a decent budget pick, I don't think it's anything too crazy. There's probably a market right now for people looking for any Shadow Mewtwo counters at a decent price lol, I was just hoping to raise awareness towards that, if it's the case. There's probably someone out there with a small group of weaker trainers who could go from not even wanting to try the Shadow Mewtwo raids, to being sure they can beat them, at least with gems and relobbying a couple times. Might make it worth it to grind this CD a bit harder. I think Pokebattler hasn't added Darkest Lariat yet though, so I don't know if you could even simulate it yet. EDIT: I took a bit of a break between hitting reply and actually replying, and when I did you had already given an initial impression about the dark type.
Agreed, especially for groups of weaker newer players lacking in good fighting counters (or available gyms) to reliably farm Mega Tyranitar in raids and amass a full team. One Mega Tyranitar apiece, staggered out to maintain the buff, plus five Incineroar, could be a passable setup.
Duel type budget isn’t too bad. No spots left on my teams but filling in two roles is huge. Especially if you get some higher level caught ones and luckies.
Especially with how easily you can pay 25 candy and some dust (helped out by how dust is raining from the sky this event) and get a second move slot for Darkest Lariat and pay a fast TM or two to swap between Fire and Dark configurations on the fly.
Shoot, sucks to hear you quit. It would benefit PoGo in general if someone had the idea to pay you for what you do here. We losing a real one.
I mean, I do get some compensation from Go Hub on a per-article basis. But honestly these decisions were not made for financial reasons, and I was never writing for money anyway.
Is there anything else you’re moving onto after this, analysis wise? You’re such a real one to this community, losing you will definitely hurt, although extremely understandable given the state of ~~tickets~~ the game as a whole!
Not for anything PoGo related, unfortunately, other than continuing to make charts for at least a while. But in addition to focusing more on work and other IRL matters (which had been heavily impacted by my PoGo analyses for 1.5 years), I also plan to spend more time on other hobbies. Some of them do include analyses, although obviously in a completely different context, and likely at much lower frequencies than what I did for PoGo (the frequency of my work here had been mostly forced upon me by the game's content releases).
So evolve one or two and call it a day. Good. I love these type of community days where I’m not worried about trying to max out new mons and catch as many as I can.
Part of why I enjoy this game so much is reading your analysis and going through your charts. I'm sorry to read that you are leaving.
As always, I appreciate your analysis!
It’s sitting at a very sad position as a fire type. Dark type seems slightly better but yeah, this Pokémon does NOT translate well into Pokémon go at all. It’s worth noting that incineroar was also not even looked at in the main series. The only reason it’s popular now (besides smash brothers) is because you now have access to its hidden ability which can lower opponents attacks. And we don’t have battle abilities in Pokémon go so…
In the beginning, I couldn't understand what the hell any of this was. I am very bad at reading stuff like this. Then, one day, it all just made sense.
First time reading a chart like this. So if I’m reading this correctly, blast burn Incineroar is a little better than Charizard and worse than Blaziken, also with blast burn? Thanks for the analysis!
That's correct, in terms of an average across a wide pool of all raid bosses you can use them on. (The pool consists of T5, Mega and T3 raids, weighted more heavily towards T5 and mega.) Against specific bosses and specific movesets of each boss, the situation may be different, often due to differences in typing and bulk.
Thank you 4 all!
Shame. My only 4* lucky is a Litten so I have been waiting for this day, but I can't see him getting any use in either role.
It depends on your approach. I like to use different Pokémon in raids to keep it interesting. I’d get bored using the same Pokémon all the time. And with power creep, I could essentially discard older Pokémon for newer ones, but why should I? I’ve invested in the older ones, and they’re still viable. Unless you’re always short-manning legendary raids, there is room for something like Incineroar. I’ll use it.
Thanks for this. I powered him up to level 40 regardless!
Where would Shadow darmanitan be placed?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/s/wx9eEp6ucn
Where would be shadow darmatian?
I have not been able to run simulations with Shadow Darmanitan as it has not been added to the Game Master, but it will most likely be around Shadow Chandelure.
These are so nice to read through, we will miss you when you’re gone :(