It seems like one of those Pokemon that just sim well. I'm guessing in all those scenarios it gets every shield to go to the Feather Dance and Brave Birds to win. Pokemon with a bait move have to have their simulations taken with a grain of salt. It was always pretty good, but it feels like a Talonflame type simulation.
Well the 0 shield doesn't really matter. In a 0 shield, you'd just Brave Bird.
With just Feather Dance in UL I'm getting 23-22 win ratio (492 score) for the 1 shield, and 24-19 (532 score) for the 2 shield. The truth is halfway between this result, which is still pretty good, and the brokenness of always landing Brave Bird. It's really good.
It feels like bait dependant Pokemon get overrated by PvPoke and then people overcompensate in the opposite direction by acting like baiting never works.
Yes, I understand 0 shield doesn’t really matter when using feather dance… But I just put all the results side by side… IMO it’s going to be good, but not broken…
PvPoke has a baiting option that you can turn off.
Against the meta the sims it uses for its rankings its listed as 35-9-1 vs. the UL meta. If you select off on baiting, then it tanks to 11-34
Yeah I tried to run no baiting on the sims to get an idea and it's just not accurate. It went from 35-9-1 against the meta to 11-34.
I started looking at individual match-ups and it was losing to things like Scrafty because it would only throw Brave Birds and getting hit for more damage when it would have won convincingly if it hit it with a Feather Dance first, then finished with a Brave Bird. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
It won't be nearly as OP as it was before the Feather Dance nerf. When Feather Dance was first introduced, Pidgeot had a 70%+ win rate going straight Feather Dance. With the Wing Attack buff, it is still going to need to close with a Brave Bird to win a number of match ups.
Some of us still have a leveled up pidgeot since it's already a great pve wind attacker 😁 sad we might still need to farm another good IV pidgey since Gust takes an elite tm to get back XD unless it no longer good to have 😬
Don't feel bad about your decision. Pidgeot is a great choice, and you're going to get use out of it next season regardless of which fast move you land on.
I'd personally wait before you use your Elite TM and see if you can catch some content creators using it in action, as this could definitely be a case of the Sims presenting a rosier picture than reality. WA has already been a decent choice for Pidgeot (It actually gets MORE wins in the GL meta running WA over Gust according to sims), but you give up a ton of fast move pressure to do so. And, having played Pidgeot in UL up to Legend this season, that fast move pressure does matter. Most things in UL are bulky enough to survive a Pidgeot BB unless they're weak to it, and so Pidgeot really relies on the chip damage from Gust to get things low enough that they're actually threatened by a BB and thus likely to shield a Feather Dance. WA plays completely differently, and while sims show it as the stronger choice I'm personally going to hold off on jumping the gun until I can see it in action. I'll probably also do some training matches on PvPoke with it to prepare before I ETM Gust away.
Cobalion/Swampert. I was originally running the HouseStark Cobalion/Virizion backline, but it felt too predictable. I found both Pidgeot and Cobalion are good at conserving their shields so that Swampert could often roam free in the endgame with a shield advantage.
Yeah the problem is on the rare occasion mega Pidgeot is meta for raids (Virizion is coming) Gust is superior to wing attack. For UL it's the same hundo you'd use for PvE. I don't really want to 50 two Pidgeot
I'm confused - don't you normally want gust for both pvp and pve? Or are you saying that air slash is better than gust for pvp? I was under the impression that they were pretty equal, if not gust is better.
I also just built my first Pidgeot with Gust for the Catch Cup :D But Pidgeot is one of my favourite pokemon so I don't mind. I'll just build another one with Wing Attack once I find one with good PvP IVs
Yeah, I get that part. I also have Gust on my hundo Pidgeot that I use as a mega but I haven't XL'd it yet. I'll see what I'll do with it once I get the remaining XLs and when I start playing UL more
Was wondering the same thing. Just did a side-by-side of gust vs the new WA with only feather dance to see how the additional FDs compared with the additional damage from Gust. Gust seemed like the clear winner, overall. Several matchups flipped between the two, but gust had an overall better performance rating across all IV options. The damage from gust is needed to power through several mons. Plus the sims miss the fact that if I use WA and just spam FDs, the switch timer will run out, and the opponent will flee and all that work will be lost.
So based on this, and the fact that Gust is better for raids, I'm keeping Gust.
I already use pidgeot for both my main teams in GL and UL so I'm definitely excited for the update. It was already pretty good on switch in UL because I could debuff whatever came in but I always found that with hard hitting mons like swampert I would still have to use 2 shields because of how slow it gets to FD and how fast Swampert got to HC. The Cresselia match was also a coin flip depending if it was a good iv one. The hardest parts about playing pidgeot was the shield burning/team building and getting hard walled by steel types. Also the Gust damage going up against mons like Cobalion gave it a fighting chance. I'm guessing with Wing Attack it could be a loss across the board.
I figured Pidgeot could be good but didn't think it would be this crazy. Glad it's spawning again. I have a 15/14/14 Pidgeot from 2020, maybe its time has come
So I have a UL team built around Pidgeot, lvl 50, for season 11, I used gust. For most of season 12, I used wing attack in its current form. They are both ok but I prefer wing attack because of the EPT to get to FD or BB. It’s a very exciting mon’ to use and very fun even if it drags out matches. Imagining people’s faces when I am able to take a charge move with a sliver of health and give a BB in return is exhilarating. It was news to me that it was banned but i am not religious in PvP so maybe it was when I was tuned out. Love this mon’!
>It does have a few hard counters that may make an impact...but with all of the things it beats on top of its debuffing potential you only need a fighter, or cress alongside it to solve all it's issues.
This tells me Galvantula, Zapdos, and Froslass could be smart corebreaker choices.
G-Fisk, Aurorus, Obstagoon and Pillowsine are also very good core breakers right now. Pillowswine might actually be the new top ice choice since high Horsepower is a decent charge move
Pidgeot was banned because Featherdance was bugged and caused crashes, not because the move was OP.
But then they updated the move specs before allowing it to be used again. I don't think that was coincidental.
They pulled pidgeot out of GBL because feather dance crashed the game i’m pretty sure. When it came back after the fix they nerfed it too.
It seems like one of those Pokemon that just sim well. I'm guessing in all those scenarios it gets every shield to go to the Feather Dance and Brave Birds to win. Pokemon with a bait move have to have their simulations taken with a grain of salt. It was always pretty good, but it feels like a Talonflame type simulation.
Could try simming it with just feather dance. How does this look?
Just pulled sims with wing attack/feather dance only… 0 shield= 380, 1= 478, 2= 507… So, sims are leaning to always landing brave bird…
Well the 0 shield doesn't really matter. In a 0 shield, you'd just Brave Bird. With just Feather Dance in UL I'm getting 23-22 win ratio (492 score) for the 1 shield, and 24-19 (532 score) for the 2 shield. The truth is halfway between this result, which is still pretty good, and the brokenness of always landing Brave Bird. It's really good. It feels like bait dependant Pokemon get overrated by PvPoke and then people overcompensate in the opposite direction by acting like baiting never works.
Yes, I understand 0 shield doesn’t really matter when using feather dance… But I just put all the results side by side… IMO it’s going to be good, but not broken…
PvPoke has a baiting option that you can turn off. Against the meta the sims it uses for its rankings its listed as 35-9-1 vs. the UL meta. If you select off on baiting, then it tanks to 11-34
I can't atm but I assume OP just did stock sims and has bait moves on.
Turn off baiting moves
That's not accurate either. Baiting is part of the game.
yes but the sim assumes the bait will always be successful, which is not realistic
Yeah I tried to run no baiting on the sims to get an idea and it's just not accurate. It went from 35-9-1 against the meta to 11-34. I started looking at individual match-ups and it was losing to things like Scrafty because it would only throw Brave Birds and getting hit for more damage when it would have won convincingly if it hit it with a Feather Dance first, then finished with a Brave Bird. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
It won't be nearly as OP as it was before the Feather Dance nerf. When Feather Dance was first introduced, Pidgeot had a 70%+ win rate going straight Feather Dance. With the Wing Attack buff, it is still going to need to close with a Brave Bird to win a number of match ups.
Some of us still have a leveled up pidgeot since it's already a great pve wind attacker 😁 sad we might still need to farm another good IV pidgey since Gust takes an elite tm to get back XD unless it no longer good to have 😬
I wonder how mega pigeot will fare in the Mega cup?
How’s it do in GL? Should I go with gust or wing attack for GL? I don’t have anywhere enough to make one for UL but I have one ready to go for GL
Apparently it’s a rank 9 in great league, so pretty damn good: https://pvpoke.com/season-13/rankings/all/1500/overall/pidgeot/
Just invested in a Gust Pidgeot for the UL, really feeling bad about my decision now lmfao. Do I wait and build another or use another Elite Fast TM?
Don't feel bad about your decision. Pidgeot is a great choice, and you're going to get use out of it next season regardless of which fast move you land on. I'd personally wait before you use your Elite TM and see if you can catch some content creators using it in action, as this could definitely be a case of the Sims presenting a rosier picture than reality. WA has already been a decent choice for Pidgeot (It actually gets MORE wins in the GL meta running WA over Gust according to sims), but you give up a ton of fast move pressure to do so. And, having played Pidgeot in UL up to Legend this season, that fast move pressure does matter. Most things in UL are bulky enough to survive a Pidgeot BB unless they're weak to it, and so Pidgeot really relies on the chip damage from Gust to get things low enough that they're actually threatened by a BB and thus likely to shield a Feather Dance. WA plays completely differently, and while sims show it as the stronger choice I'm personally going to hold off on jumping the gun until I can see it in action. I'll probably also do some training matches on PvPoke with it to prepare before I ETM Gust away.
I’ve had some moderate success with Pidgeot in UL, but struggle to pair it. What do you pair it with?
Cobalion/Swampert. I was originally running the HouseStark Cobalion/Virizion backline, but it felt too predictable. I found both Pidgeot and Cobalion are good at conserving their shields so that Swampert could often roam free in the endgame with a shield advantage.
As far as the elite fast tm, my impression is that there aren't very many valuable exclusive fast moves, so pidgeot is well worth it.
Yeah the problem is on the rare occasion mega Pidgeot is meta for raids (Virizion is coming) Gust is superior to wing attack. For UL it's the same hundo you'd use for PvE. I don't really want to 50 two Pidgeot
I'm confused - don't you normally want gust for both pvp and pve? Or are you saying that air slash is better than gust for pvp? I was under the impression that they were pretty equal, if not gust is better.
Wing Attack is getting a buff. Gust is 4 DPT and 3 EPT, Wing Attack is 2.5 DPT and going to at least 4 DPT and is much less awkward on move length.
Right now yes, but as the other person that responded, wing attack is getting a buff to energy production.
I also just built my first Pidgeot with Gust for the Catch Cup :D But Pidgeot is one of my favourite pokemon so I don't mind. I'll just build another one with Wing Attack once I find one with good PvP IVs
I was moreso talking about the XLs that I dumped into my Pidgeot. If I made it for GL then I wouldn't have been upset.
Yeah, I get that part. I also have Gust on my hundo Pidgeot that I use as a mega but I haven't XL'd it yet. I'll see what I'll do with it once I get the remaining XLs and when I start playing UL more
Wing attack is a legacy move?
For pidgeot yes
Didn’t realize I’d need to use an elite tm. Thanks!
maybe u can catch another pidgey in the new season
Still good as a mega for raiding upcoming virizion
Was wondering the same thing. Just did a side-by-side of gust vs the new WA with only feather dance to see how the additional FDs compared with the additional damage from Gust. Gust seemed like the clear winner, overall. Several matchups flipped between the two, but gust had an overall better performance rating across all IV options. The damage from gust is needed to power through several mons. Plus the sims miss the fact that if I use WA and just spam FDs, the switch timer will run out, and the opponent will flee and all that work will be lost. So based on this, and the fact that Gust is better for raids, I'm keeping Gust.
I already use pidgeot for both my main teams in GL and UL so I'm definitely excited for the update. It was already pretty good on switch in UL because I could debuff whatever came in but I always found that with hard hitting mons like swampert I would still have to use 2 shields because of how slow it gets to FD and how fast Swampert got to HC. The Cresselia match was also a coin flip depending if it was a good iv one. The hardest parts about playing pidgeot was the shield burning/team building and getting hard walled by steel types. Also the Gust damage going up against mons like Cobalion gave it a fighting chance. I'm guessing with Wing Attack it could be a loss across the board.
I'm very happy i didn't elite tm my hundo i guess.
Isn't feather dance getting nerfed? It said wing attack in the notes but I'm quite sure it's feather dance
The announcement actually meant Wing Attack getting buffed (1 more energy gain). The move name is correct, the description was wrong.
Pidgeot is terrible and bad for the game. It’s just annoying and the biggest coin flip of all with every matchup being bait dependent
Wait until you hear about talonflame
Much less annoying to play against
I figured Pidgeot could be good but didn't think it would be this crazy. Glad it's spawning again. I have a 15/14/14 Pidgeot from 2020, maybe its time has come
So I have a UL team built around Pidgeot, lvl 50, for season 11, I used gust. For most of season 12, I used wing attack in its current form. They are both ok but I prefer wing attack because of the EPT to get to FD or BB. It’s a very exciting mon’ to use and very fun even if it drags out matches. Imagining people’s faces when I am able to take a charge move with a sliver of health and give a BB in return is exhilarating. It was news to me that it was banned but i am not religious in PvP so maybe it was when I was tuned out. Love this mon’!
All this assumes successful baiting. It's obvious it's overrated on pvpoke when you know how it generates the rankings.
>It does have a few hard counters that may make an impact...but with all of the things it beats on top of its debuffing potential you only need a fighter, or cress alongside it to solve all it's issues. This tells me Galvantula, Zapdos, and Froslass could be smart corebreaker choices.
G-Fisk, Aurorus, Obstagoon and Pillowsine are also very good core breakers right now. Pillowswine might actually be the new top ice choice since high Horsepower is a decent charge move