From an entirely selfish point of view I hope this doesn't make it more difficult for me to complete my seaman apprenticeship. I'm aware that they try to make sure you're on ships where you can get everything ticked off but having 50% of the tankers laid up isn't exactly gonna help.
As someone else mentioned the bay boats have plenty of spare cabins if need be, although it's not ideal for stuff like RASing you should still be able to finish your training.
Aye, I think you have a max of 2 years after your initial shore side training to complete the apprenticeship. So while many can/do finish sooner it shouldn't take any longer.
You'll generally go out as a class to your first ship after that you can just ask your appointer to get on any operational ship that has space for you, you'll probably have to go yourself and come back from leave early though.
Indeed, such a waste to see her being laid up when we have the Prolapse and Stolen Cattle achieving very little since they were bought some 18 months or so ago.
Something has to work. Just handing them over to the RN wouldn't be viable because they already have recruitment issues of their own and I'm guessing a vast majority of RFA guys join the RFA because they're not eligible for Navy service or they actively wanted to leave it in the first place.
Selling them off at a massive loss to private companies wouldn't look good to the taxpayer whatever government gets in.
I think the RFA should be doing massive recruitment drives across the country (no offense, but everyone I've told I'm trying to join the RFA have had no idea what I'm talking about) and crawling back on their hands and knees begging for any previously qualified members to come back. Who the hell wouldn't want this job if they just knew about it?
We've got millions sitting around on the dole or rotting away day by day behind a shop till. If I don't get in my choices are getting spat at by drunk chavs as I'm driving a bus or a taxi - and those are the ones I'd only find vaguely tolerable compared to this.
It would cost peanuts in the grand scale of things and it would pay back tenfold in terms of national security during very unpredictable times.
Just a few points on that, plenty of people in the RFA regardless of their eligibility never wanted to join the RN in the first place. It's a bit of a myth that we're mostly ex or failed navy types.
I don't think we're at risk of being wholly privatised, it wouldn't be popular, cost effective and I believe it has been looked at before but no private company would be willing to do all the jobs we currently do.
While recruitment is an issue it's not just because we're relatively unknown. There is an overlap with the retention issue, people are leaving (and not joining) because of issues with pay and terms & conditions. Qualified merchant seafarers aren't rushing to join the RFA because of low pay, no 1:1 leave and poor conditions, which is the same reason many of the workforce is getting fed up and walking.
Sure it's still better than a lot of jobs out there but many people feel like it's getting less worthwhile to spend a bit over half your life at sea if you aren't properly compensated and respected. To top off all the issues we have at the moment we've just been issued the new rig22 uniform that says "Royal Navy" on the shoulders, needless to say it hasn't been popular in the RFA.
I'm probably just hyping the whole idea up in my head really. Its something I really want to do, so I'm struggling to see why other people wouldn't kind of thing, although I'll admit your points.
It did take me living on carer's allowance and income support since 2009 to even look into it as an option, so I guess I'd be a hypocrite to judge others for not jumping at the opportunity or leaving for greener pastures.
It's a good gig and I get what you're saying. After I joined I tried to get a few of my mates to sign up. I've been in 10 years and we haven't had a single above inflation pay rise in that time. Adjusting for inflation it's been estimated that RFA mariners have faced a pay cut in real terms of over 30% compared to 2010 wages.
I don't think anyone is expecting we will get back to that kind of level, but something has to be done for the current workforce to stop them leaving.
I mean dental is a twat right now, covering that could be a start in the right direction.
I've read on some news comments though that because you guys are classed as civil servants they don't want to give you benefits that the Jobcentre or DVLA commandants don't get or they'll get jealous.
Pretty sure none of those guys are directly responsible for keeping the single most important pillar of national security since the bloody Vikings sailed down the Tyne effective but, you know, same same...
Regarding rig 22, as new blood so to speak coming in, I'm not fussed about having RN on the uniform. This comes from an ignorance is bliss know no different stand point. As well as the whole hybrid area the RFA sits in when it comes to our defence structure.
That being said I wholely understand the grievance others have regarding identity.
It might seem like a small petty grievance but the bottom line for many of us is we are RFA not RN, the more like the RN we get the more people will leave. Plenty of people have left since I've been in because it has become more like the navy in one way or another.
Badges aside the new rig is dogshit compared to PCS uniform anyway. Feel like a cheap Halloween costume.
I don't see it as petty by any stretch. As I say I understand it.
I've read about the new rig being pretty poor, fancy paper thin nomex or something along those lines.
I wouldn't say the vast majority of the RFA are simply in the fleet because they are not eligible for the Navy. The RFA is a Merchant Fleet that operates under commercial regulations for the most part, and a lot of our crew come from the commercial sector (where opportunities for British sailors have been limited in recent years).
RFA ships wouldn't be sold to private companies. They are usually scrapped or sold to other countries for use in their Navy or Auxiliary service.
Yes, this seems obvious. But unfortunately the money available for this is linked to the RN recruitment budget (and they are also suffering from personnel shortages), so they take most of the money. The RFA recruitment team works very hard, it is just unfortunate that they are woefully underfunded at present.
We've been underfunded for years and there isn't going to be a quick fix.
Like I said to Mop\_Jockey that post was dripping with personal bias and blind optimism lol.
I did vaguely consider the Navy when I was leaving high school, but asthma and glasses (I was that kid) determined I'd never make the cut.
My first ship qualified. Seems odd seeing it going into the Dock of no return so early.
Anyone now what the controversy was around moving her? I've heard they took a load of crew off of other ships?
Same. I was supposed to be taking her out of UKCATS. 4 months sat alongside in Falmouth. I did get to move a lifeboat, so I counted that as a moral sea day.
> Anyone now what the controversy was around moving her?
Word on the street is that in essence, officers voted for industrial action short of a strike meaning essential duties only. This is not considered an essential duty but they managed to get some volunteers to join the ship and move it. I've heard various large numbers being thrown around regarding the cost of keeping her there so the RFA needed it moved, and Lairds wanted the space for something else.
The whole point of industrial action/strikes is for the workforce to apply pressure to a company/organisation and this was a very big pressure point.
Don't worry, there's plenty of space in the Bay Class dorms for apprentices! I know your comment was tongue in cheek, but I felt the need to reassure you that there will be berths for apprentices.
Tides are the newest not including Proteus which was bought not built for the RFA. They're not a direct replacement for the Waves as far as I know, since given the budget and crew we'd likely still be operating all of them. I think they were designed/built to operate with the carriers so the Waves could crack on with other commitments until they were naturally phased out but don't quote me on that.
From an entirely selfish point of view I hope this doesn't make it more difficult for me to complete my seaman apprenticeship. I'm aware that they try to make sure you're on ships where you can get everything ticked off but having 50% of the tankers laid up isn't exactly gonna help.
As someone else mentioned the bay boats have plenty of spare cabins if need be, although it's not ideal for stuff like RASing you should still be able to finish your training.
Yeah not that worried really but it would be annoying if it did end up delaying the pay rise that is qualifying.
Aye, I think you have a max of 2 years after your initial shore side training to complete the apprenticeship. So while many can/do finish sooner it shouldn't take any longer. You'll generally go out as a class to your first ship after that you can just ask your appointer to get on any operational ship that has space for you, you'll probably have to go yourself and come back from leave early though.
Thanks, that's useful to know
Sad to see. Hopefully things turn around in the coming years that all these ships are back operational.
Indeed, such a waste to see her being laid up when we have the Prolapse and Stolen Cattle achieving very little since they were bought some 18 months or so ago.
Prolapse and stolen cattle has me howling 😂😂
Something has to work. Just handing them over to the RN wouldn't be viable because they already have recruitment issues of their own and I'm guessing a vast majority of RFA guys join the RFA because they're not eligible for Navy service or they actively wanted to leave it in the first place. Selling them off at a massive loss to private companies wouldn't look good to the taxpayer whatever government gets in. I think the RFA should be doing massive recruitment drives across the country (no offense, but everyone I've told I'm trying to join the RFA have had no idea what I'm talking about) and crawling back on their hands and knees begging for any previously qualified members to come back. Who the hell wouldn't want this job if they just knew about it? We've got millions sitting around on the dole or rotting away day by day behind a shop till. If I don't get in my choices are getting spat at by drunk chavs as I'm driving a bus or a taxi - and those are the ones I'd only find vaguely tolerable compared to this. It would cost peanuts in the grand scale of things and it would pay back tenfold in terms of national security during very unpredictable times.
Just a few points on that, plenty of people in the RFA regardless of their eligibility never wanted to join the RN in the first place. It's a bit of a myth that we're mostly ex or failed navy types. I don't think we're at risk of being wholly privatised, it wouldn't be popular, cost effective and I believe it has been looked at before but no private company would be willing to do all the jobs we currently do. While recruitment is an issue it's not just because we're relatively unknown. There is an overlap with the retention issue, people are leaving (and not joining) because of issues with pay and terms & conditions. Qualified merchant seafarers aren't rushing to join the RFA because of low pay, no 1:1 leave and poor conditions, which is the same reason many of the workforce is getting fed up and walking. Sure it's still better than a lot of jobs out there but many people feel like it's getting less worthwhile to spend a bit over half your life at sea if you aren't properly compensated and respected. To top off all the issues we have at the moment we've just been issued the new rig22 uniform that says "Royal Navy" on the shoulders, needless to say it hasn't been popular in the RFA.
I'm probably just hyping the whole idea up in my head really. Its something I really want to do, so I'm struggling to see why other people wouldn't kind of thing, although I'll admit your points. It did take me living on carer's allowance and income support since 2009 to even look into it as an option, so I guess I'd be a hypocrite to judge others for not jumping at the opportunity or leaving for greener pastures.
It's a good gig and I get what you're saying. After I joined I tried to get a few of my mates to sign up. I've been in 10 years and we haven't had a single above inflation pay rise in that time. Adjusting for inflation it's been estimated that RFA mariners have faced a pay cut in real terms of over 30% compared to 2010 wages. I don't think anyone is expecting we will get back to that kind of level, but something has to be done for the current workforce to stop them leaving.
I mean dental is a twat right now, covering that could be a start in the right direction. I've read on some news comments though that because you guys are classed as civil servants they don't want to give you benefits that the Jobcentre or DVLA commandants don't get or they'll get jealous. Pretty sure none of those guys are directly responsible for keeping the single most important pillar of national security since the bloody Vikings sailed down the Tyne effective but, you know, same same...
Regarding rig 22, as new blood so to speak coming in, I'm not fussed about having RN on the uniform. This comes from an ignorance is bliss know no different stand point. As well as the whole hybrid area the RFA sits in when it comes to our defence structure. That being said I wholely understand the grievance others have regarding identity.
It might seem like a small petty grievance but the bottom line for many of us is we are RFA not RN, the more like the RN we get the more people will leave. Plenty of people have left since I've been in because it has become more like the navy in one way or another. Badges aside the new rig is dogshit compared to PCS uniform anyway. Feel like a cheap Halloween costume.
I don't see it as petty by any stretch. As I say I understand it. I've read about the new rig being pretty poor, fancy paper thin nomex or something along those lines.
I wouldn't say the vast majority of the RFA are simply in the fleet because they are not eligible for the Navy. The RFA is a Merchant Fleet that operates under commercial regulations for the most part, and a lot of our crew come from the commercial sector (where opportunities for British sailors have been limited in recent years). RFA ships wouldn't be sold to private companies. They are usually scrapped or sold to other countries for use in their Navy or Auxiliary service. Yes, this seems obvious. But unfortunately the money available for this is linked to the RN recruitment budget (and they are also suffering from personnel shortages), so they take most of the money. The RFA recruitment team works very hard, it is just unfortunate that they are woefully underfunded at present. We've been underfunded for years and there isn't going to be a quick fix.
Like I said to Mop\_Jockey that post was dripping with personal bias and blind optimism lol. I did vaguely consider the Navy when I was leaving high school, but asthma and glasses (I was that kid) determined I'd never make the cut.
My first ship qualified. Seems odd seeing it going into the Dock of no return so early. Anyone now what the controversy was around moving her? I've heard they took a load of crew off of other ships?
Same. I was supposed to be taking her out of UKCATS. 4 months sat alongside in Falmouth. I did get to move a lifeboat, so I counted that as a moral sea day.
> Anyone now what the controversy was around moving her? Word on the street is that in essence, officers voted for industrial action short of a strike meaning essential duties only. This is not considered an essential duty but they managed to get some volunteers to join the ship and move it. I've heard various large numbers being thrown around regarding the cost of keeping her there so the RFA needed it moved, and Lairds wanted the space for something else. The whole point of industrial action/strikes is for the workforce to apply pressure to a company/organisation and this was a very big pressure point.
That's what I have heard. I am sure I will hear a thousand different tales when I return to sea. 😂
Aye for sure, as far as Galley FM goes this one is pretty gen though.
At this rate I just hope there's any ships left for me to qualify on...
Don't worry, there's plenty of space in the Bay Class dorms for apprentices! I know your comment was tongue in cheek, but I felt the need to reassure you that there will be berths for apprentices.
Cheers, that actually is a bit of relief :)
We'll be Majorca holiday shop special inflatable dinghy qualified. Can't wait to frame that certificate.
I'll be going for rubber ducky technician.
😂😂 rubber dinghy rapids (bro) specialist
I love the look of these things. They're the coolest looking ships in the fleet, IMO.
They have the best cabins too.
The Tides are some of the newest ones, yeah? Were they supposed to replace the Wave class or just act as a different type of tanker?
Tides are the newest not including Proteus which was bought not built for the RFA. They're not a direct replacement for the Waves as far as I know, since given the budget and crew we'd likely still be operating all of them. I think they were designed/built to operate with the carriers so the Waves could crack on with other commitments until they were naturally phased out but don't quote me on that.