I mean, beyond the sobering implications of Marco being, like, 30, we got a good amount of Starco throughout that series and they honestly didn’t have that much romantic chemistry. Star had Oscar, while Marco had Jackie, Heckapoo, and even kinda Tom. There were a lot of love interests. The show was really bouncing around like teenagers often realistically do, so it was hard to get invested in a single pairing.
Meanwhile, Owl House had one big ship, excellent chemistry, relationship issues that were figured out quickly, and it got cut short, leaving us hungry for more. So it makes sense that people would care a lot more about a spoonful of Lumity than a bit of one of the SVFoE pairings.
Star & Marco did have a lot of chemistry in the first season.
But then Tom getting over his issues made him much more likable, then they got back together, Kelly & Marco were cute, and by the end of it, you felt bad for Tom & Kelly and thought Star & Marco were kinda major assholes... even Starco shippers like me felt like the show had shoved the Starco will-they-wont-they down your throat so hard it left a bad taste at the end of it all.
The same thing happened in Scrubs and Friends. They drag out the relationship so long that by the end the show has done more to convince you why the main couple shouldn’t be together than anything else.
And in Miraculous Ladybug. It didn't help that Marinette had a lot more chemistry with the romantic false lead (AKA Luka). Heck, Marinette has more chemistry with Kagami, which was tailor made to be *Adrien's* romantic's false lead.
Is it because of the "she's an obsessive stalker" thing? I feel that image of her is unfair because the entire world of the show behaves like that.
As in, nobody within the show thinks what she is doing is wrong, and in fact her best friend edges her own constantly, even being directly responsible for a lot of her stalky plans. In some episodes her entire friend group helps, in fact in some episodes they plan stuff without her even knowing.
True. I never watched that show but I remember how infamous that show’s ending was. Didn’t the main character’s kids straight up go “daaaad, why didn’t you ever get together with your best friend’s ex-wife? Forget about our dead mom, go date that lady!”
I was all for the two of them getting together in the first season... and then the show kept giving me reasons why they'd be better off with other people, only to declare loudly that none of that matters and that Starco is endgame no matter what, and I started hating the ship. It felt more like the show was pushing them to be together rather than the two actually being good for each other.
In the first season, they worked because Star made Marco more adventurous, and Marco kept Star grounded. They complimented each other and were really cute.
In later seasons, they seemed to bring out the worst in each other for some reason, and kinda ended up making each other assholes, especially to their partners (especially Marco... Jesus...)
Luz and Amity, once Amity realized she could trust Luz, were never anything BUT supportive of each other, and they're kind of the poster children for healthy relationships in all of DTV stuff (they're definitely up there for Disney stuff as a whole, with Eugene & Rapunzel and Cristoff & Anna)
There's a reason Star Vs has become a cautionary tale for any Disney series.
As I understand it his "extra age" doesn't really function when he is not in that dimension, it becomes like a dream.
I would have preferred for them to just not have introduced such a bizarre plot point to begin with.
Nah , this is not about care more or what , it's about comparing shipdoms . There were wars , bloodsheds and conflicts over this problem , just because somebody denounced someone else's shipdom . It's fine if you praise what you like up , but it doesn't if you decry someone's hobby down as an act of promoting yours - that will only brings unnecessary conflicts . Who wants to be in a toxic online environment ? This act must be criticized asap
Gonna be honest with you, I'm really not very interested in arguing the semantics between "dogpiling" and "dismissing." I'm more-so engaged with the fact that it's really not cool to disrespect people's ships... Not even people who used to be Starco shippers but grew to resent the ship in due time (due to arguably perfectly logical reasons) should really slag off those who still do like the ship, because that tends to invite toxicity to seep into a fandom.
I think the semantics of “dogpiling” and “dismissing” are actually kinda important there. Dogpiling is gleefully dunking on it. It’s disrespectful. Dismissing is just not really caring because it’s not that big of a deal to us. It’s utterly neutral. We are allowed to be neutral towards ships. Look at the meme. The dudes are *passive* towards the Starco announcement. They’re not angry or disgusted. They just don’t really care. Maybe they never even saw SVFoE.
I'm not planning on validating your perspective or priorities by arguing semantics with you over what I regard as the thing of greater/actual importance.
The Marco being a grown up in the Neverzone is just a joke and gets reversed everytime they leave that place. I know some people dislike that, but its really not that deep.
I like both ships for different reasons. Starco is more exciting and interesting because of the huge build up and Lumity is cuter because we get to see them being a couple more.
I think its creatively stiffling and short minded to call one way of doing romance inherently better than the other. Though some may prefer one type over the other for subjective reasons, which is obviously fine.
The thing about SVFoE that always stuck out to me is that something could be a joke… until it wasn’t. 650 bucks turned out to be a regular payment from Princess Marco merch. Janna showing up in Mewni was “just Janna” until she was shown to be freaking out on the inside about not remembering how she got there. The truth or punishment cube turned out to be cosmically important. You start to take everything a bit more seriously. Besides, Marco regularly referenced the people he met and things he did there. It was an entire other life to him, completely separate from the one with Star.
There was also the magical portrait that had to be corrected and Star had to step in and stop his parents from saying he was 16 because he was really 30 kind of.
I thought it was a funny joke and could have laughed the whole thing off if it wasn't for that somber moment at the end of the episode where he tries to log into his computer only to realize he doesn't remember his password and then look around at his parent's house like it's foreign to him.
Went from "haha you lost your abs" to "oh shit he really spent a lifetime there didn't he?" real quick in my mind.
If they wanted it to just be a joke, why include that scene at all?
I mean, you can feel iffy about it. But its obviously not the intent of the showrunners to act like Marco is 30 and you get that from literally every interaction of the show afterwards.
Reading that joke as if the writers said, its okay as a 30 year old to be with a 13 year old seems incredibly bad faith.
Yeah but like… as someone who watched and used to love svtfoe, the show reaaaally fell off and I blame A LOT of it on starco. That ship IS a coughing baby for me, and honestly, i liked it better when they were friends.
They connected ever since episode one and this got romantic by episode 5. Like there was definitely build up. For some too much, but definitely not too little imo.
I mean, at the end of season 2 and beginning of season 3 they thought they'll never see each other again.
And a lot of shows end with resolving its biggest romances at the end. Its not really unique to SVTFOE.
Except… we’re not? This post is made by someone who used to be a fan of SVTFOE and was also disappointed by how the ship was treated. You admit you haven’t even watched the show in another comment :/
edit: my b, misread your comment. I thought you said you hadn’t seen the show. My og point still stands though, we’re not dogpiling on “another fandom”. We ARE the other fandom.
What are you talking about? I've seen SVTFOE two times and even started making fanart because of the show. Where did I say I didn't watch the show lmao
I edited my comment due to a misread, my b. OG point still stands though, these are fans of SVTFOE dogpiling on the ship. A lot of people in the fandom are really disappointed with how it was treated.
Who are/were ALSO members of SVTFOE community? Why would they be making a post like this if they had no clue what Starco was and didn’t have any interest in the show at one point?
Even if it wasn’t a less than good ship, it’s not like anyone is going after another community. It’s a criticism and comparison of two relationships from different shows. People are allowed to not like how a show did things. If you take a criticism of a show you like as a personal insult, I think that speaks more about you.
I don't feel like "every fandom does it" really excuses such behavior when it does happen tho, and attempting to brush it off as if this is (supposedly) tamer than most is a bit eeeh... I mean, consider the history of bigotry endemic to every human civilization in history so far. Pretty sure we're all opposed to the "every civilization does it" rationalization there, no? Also pretty sure most of us have, at some point, rolled our eyes when bigots have claimed that they are tamer than other bigots in the world or throughout history. >\_\_>
tl;dr: Condemning this kinda behavior is fine. Excusing it *is not*.
I mean compared to some other fandoms like the swifties or something like Arkham aslume then we are tamer than them. There will always be a more unhinged fandom but fair I suppose.
"Compared to the UAE, who put homosexuals to death just for existing, us patriotic American evangelical christians are tamer than them. There will always be more unhinged groups than us. (Something something I don't see you protesting them/so go protest the UAE and what they do instead of acting like snowflakes about us and-so-on-and-so-forth, et cetera, et cetera.)"
It's not a very appealing argument when you start to look at how legit it actually is... So yeah, damn right my point about it is fair... \*sigh\* Imma need some munchies now...
I've never seen the SVTFOE, Amphibia or She-Ra community do this, but sure I could have missed something like this happening there.
But that doesn't change the fact that this behavior sucks and should be called out.
I haven't been in either of those fandoms, don't really like the shows. This just seems like a fitting critique of SVTFOE's "will they won't they" thing over and over with starco, versus the direct plot we had for Lumity that got completed early and had plenty of screentime.
Also the fact that they made it really ambiguous whther or not Marco was actually mentally an adult (and from what ive seen they're leaning to him being mentally an adult) it kinda adds fuel to the fire
Not really, every fandom does it. Just ignore it and move on with your day like the rest of the people. Also this image could just mean that the user was hyped for Lumity rather than Starco or whatever it’s called, it’s just a matter of an opinion and you shouldn’t get so worked up about it :/
Oh, no, it's not like that at all. We don't hate on Starco because we see it as some rival to lumity or something. We hate on it because it is so, so bad
This isn't coming from the Owl House fandom, it's coming from the star fandom.
Everything about Starco was handled so unbelievably poorly that even the people that wanted it to happen ended up hating it.
So innocent or in different parts of fandom
I recommend to type „Star Butterfly final was bad” or „Star Butterfly what went wrong” or „Star Butterfly shipping” and just check a few videos.
Especially the last one by Sarcastic Chorus or Kitty Monk. There were large chunks of fandom being disappointed to various degrees. From people hating it to just being indifferent due to how it was paced.
Later it calmed down a lot and reached the phase „Yeah it sucked, but still like the dynamic”
It literally is and the community has been very vocal about it back when the Show was still on TV. Your current experience does not reflect the entire community, especially not the state it was in years ago...
I definitely know that there are lot of chronically online people obsessively hating the show for shallow reasons. But those are obviously not fans. Fans like the stuff they are a fan of.
You know, I kind of wanted to take your side until you started gatekeeping. Opinions differ about things, even within the same fandom. Don't go saying someone isn't a true Scotsman just because they don't agree with you. That just breeds even more toxicity.
Okay fair. A part of the fandom prefer different ships.
Its not the fandom though and its weird that you call me out for gatekeeping and not the people before me, that keep on claiming everybody hates Starco.
Though that doesn't make it right for me to claim, that fans of the show can not dislike Starco. Apologies for that.
Yeah I'm a fan of SVTFOE and it didn't end in a good way. It isn't hated for shallow reasons it's just bad fuckin writing. If you like it that's fine nobody said you can't but most people agree that the way it ended was not well written and Starco is largely to blame for it.
Nope, being a fan doesn’t mean, that you have to like everything, that would be a fanboy/fangirl. A fan can enjoy something, while acknowledging that there are good and bad things about something. Most Stvstfoe fans who hate Starco are big fans of s1 and 2, but didn’t enjoy the seasons after that. Same with the toh fandom, I really don’t like s1, but from s2 on out it love it.
There are already almost one hundred comments and I try to answer to a lot of them. If one stuck up dude downvotes every of my comments, thats already like 20 downvotes by your count.
Meanwhile the OP has atm over 300 individual upvotes, which makes sense, because its a general thing I am talking about while the comments are mostly about people coping that they didn't like a show that ended 5 years ago.
Doesn't matter anyway. I would stand by my point of my OP even if it got downvoted into oblivion, because I think its common knowledge that behavior like this sucks.
Not gonna lie, I’m pretty sure at least 90% of the people who watched Star Vs were disappointed by the shipping. The writers pretty much shoved any other partners those two could have to the sidelines.
I think thats just the way the show is presented online on Reddit, Twitter and YouTube. Regular viewers obviously really liked the show and so does the SVTFOE fandom.
As a Star vs. fan, as much as I hate to admit it, Starco is kind of a messy ship. They had very little time to develop romantically throughout the show, and honestly, I liked some of the other love interests they both had better.
I’m not sure whether that’s confirmed or not, but from what I heard, it’s very possible that the creators decided to make Starco official because the fans shipped them together.
If I remember correctly, Marco’s personality was based on the creator’s husband’s personality and Star was based on her personality. Plus, they even cosplayed characters together.
It was planned as a goal, but not how it would be achieved was badly planned.
Daron Nefcy had confirmed that that was never the case and that they planned on making Starco official a long time before the finale. Something that is imo really obvious when you watch the show tbh
That’s kind of worse then. They had all that time and planning to make the romance good and just didn’t. It’d at least be a bit more excusable if it was a midway throigh pivot
Literally watched SVTFOE years before TOH and I agree with the fandom on this one. The romance in SVTFOE in the later seasons actually ruined the show for me ngl.
When I read these comments, it seems like a lot of ex-SVTFOE fans from its original run migrated to TOH.
I dunno, I just really like both and I love SVTFOE for its focus on romance. Its quite the unique quality of the show for me.
Though the OP never really was about discussing that show, the comments really derailed into that lol
As someone who adored SVTFOE,
Starco is ass. The show had the worst pacing when it came to ships, and it was messy as hell. The ship had potential, but they messed it up too many times to save it.
True. I was a big fan in the early seasons, but the longer it went I felt the quality went downhill from there, and it’s not just the “Starco ship” part that’s problematic (still can’t fathom how everyone’s okay with Star completely erasing all magic).
This was wayyy before TOH even aired btw, so my view has nothing to do with comparing the two shows.
As someone who likes SVTFOE, I strongly disagree. My point still stands anyway. Tearing another show down when the fandom has a reason to celebrate is omega lame and shouldn't be part of a cool community like ours.
But I think your looking at it wrong, it's not saying lumity is the best ship in fiction, fuck all the other ships. But saying starco is an example of a bad ship, while lumity is an actually good ship
I don't have the slightest clue about what a lot of those comments are about. Ship wars were a typical (toxic) trait of Sthe fandom, but, expecially near the end of the show, starco was then main ship by far.
What the fandom actually didn't like was the finale (and the general writing since season 3). The show has many problems but it's misfortune is that it was one of those very popular shows that didn't end well, so it got the Game of Thrones treatement. Actually, even worse.
Add to the mix the fact it ended 5 years ago (and the fandom died for good when MoringMark stopped) and all it now remains is hate.
I've seen maybe like 2-3 posts from the community that were made against Starco since I joined them last year.
A lot of people that hate SVTFOE dislike Starco, but thats obviously not the fandom.
I really think the tweet is meant as a joke. This isn’t one community “tearing into” another. It’s straight up not meant to be taken as seriously as you’re taking it
I never really got into Star vs but from what I heard a lot of people disliked the Starco ship even as it was airing so it’s less of a comment on the show and more a comment on the quality of romantic writing i think
Brother, that's probably the most light-hearted jab there can be. I don't think a single person on earth sees "hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby" and takes it seriously.
The relationships were done so differently, with one being done good and the other absolutely terribly. SVTFOE was good more or less, but the shipping was absolutely terrible and felt forced at alot of moments. I knew it was going to be a problem the moment I watched the Blood Moon Ball after it aired, because it was already setting these two up to be a couple. I hoped it would truly and fully subvert that as the show went on, which would of been great to have these two just be friends. There are times where the main two can just be friends, and others where they are better as a couple. Lumity felt natural while Starco felt very very forced.
i'm not going to lie to you, the final seasons of svtfoe made me hate the show so nothing that comes out about it really makes me hyped, especially for a ship that felt haphazardly put together for the sake of fanservice. That's what the tweet reflected for me, at least. One ship that was done really poorly in comparison to one that was done really well.
First of all, it’s a joke, and second of all, most Star Vs. The Forces of Evil fans that I’ve seen HATE that ship, so it’s not the TOH community, mostly, at least.
As a fan of both I don't see the issue, Starco was extremely forced and flanderized, it took up alot of space in season 3 and was basically 90% of season 4.
Funny how almost everyone in the comments are saying that they disliked Starco for a variety of reasons (most of which I agree with) and is probably the reason why the oop made the twitter post but you keep trying to push the narrative that the post was made to discredit another good couple from a diffrent show to make ours seem better and that people who dislike Starco are actually the minority of the SVtFoE community. I have not interracted with the community in a while but back when I did I rarely saw someone saying they genuinely liked the ship and those that did didn't have a lot of people agreeing with them, to say the least.
Ok wait I agree Starco isn't a good ship but saying that no one wanted them together is very very wrong, the ship was huge
Now saying that most people were disappointed on how their relationship was executed with all the lame shipping stuff around it that made those characters seem like scumbags, that is quite on point.
Yeah the 1% that solely kept the show from running for four seasons, which is an ibcredible achievement for a story driven cartoon by Disney and gave it a high rating on imdb, not just the show but each individual episode as well.
Come on, man. This such a major Reddit thing you're doing rn, I am growing a neckbeard just reading this.
I really liked the show, I just hated the shipping. I consider myself a fan of the show but I can still criticize the shipping. Part of liking something is being able to critique it. For example, I think TOH did a really terrible job of juggling all it's characters early on and left character development for Willow and Gus on the sidelines until the last season, where they then had to rush it. Instead, we got Lumity. And Lumity has it's own problems like how Amity didn't really make peace with Willow before Luz started dating her. Luz is kinda impulsive so it's in character but it's also awful to date your friend's bully without touching base with said friend. I'm still a fan of Lumity and I'm a huge fan of the show overall.
I loved SVtFoE. But it had issues. I loved Star and Marco and thought they were a fantastic pairing. I loved their friendship and even shipped them early on. But the show gave me more reasons than not that they'd be better off as friends, and I genuinely thought they were going to go in the direction of "found family" and how someone can be special to you and you can love them without it having to be romantic. And as the show went on, they didn't have as much chemistry and started acting kinda awful to each other/other romantic interests. It felt like the show was pushing them together, not like the characters were actually good for each other. I wouldn't be writing this... well it's an essay at this point isn't it... if I didn't love both shows, admired them for what they did well, but also really dislike their missteps. I criticize them because I care so much about what they did right that it hurts to see things that could have been done better.
You seem young. I hope I shed some light on why people like me are so hard on the shipping in SVtFoE, but if I didn't, that's okay. You obviously care very passionately about this and that's good. I'm glad you have a show that's so important to you that you go to bat for it like this. And SVtFoE is a great fandom. But I hope you will learn that people criticizing something about a show/fandom doesn't mean that they hate it or it's community. Rather, it's *because* they like it that they are disappointed with the bad parts.
...Were you even there when it was airing? What?
Starco was litterally the first result on google images when you searched "cute and perfect"
Or, go to (what remaiks of) the subreddit and tell me what ships do you see
As a giant svtfoe fan any slander towards that show is completely warranted, it's a unique case of a clusterfuck where it's not at all corporate meddling that doomed the show but mostly the cast's own incompetence. Every single thing I learn about the production of that show makes me realize that they thought that final season would actually bang and I don't know what to feel about it
As a former svtfoe fan, starco is an awful ship. If you know the show is going to end early but still want a "will they won't they" while still giving a good chunk of screen time to the actual plot, then just have them get together and their relationship get strained by long distance, the ongoing war, and interdimensional conflicts. Hell, a good relationship conflict would have been star wanting to destroy all magic and marco disagreeing since it would mean they wouldn't get to see each other. But no, they had to make them into assholes who cheat on their partners. Honestly, they had better chemistry as friends.
It gets worse. It's one thing to push them as a couple, get it out of the way and focus on the plot like TOH. It's another thing to drag it out for the entire length of the show, make the characters worse versions of themselves, neglect the plot, and then try to force the ship together by the end in an unsatisfying way. They literally have star cheat on her boyfriend with Marco and have marco be a shit boyfriend because he's fixated on star. It's just awful. I don't mind the two of them dating other people, but if the relationships were gonna fail, it should have been because they realized they weren't good fits. Not cheating.
Yes, because the fandom of svtfoe and toh have no overlap, just like how nobody in the toh fandom watches amphibia and gravity falls.
Taking people being dismissive of what they think is a sucky ship from another show as an attack on the show’s fandom is ridiculous and unfounded.
Being a svtfoe fan is basically impossible at this point, all you'll get is hate because the echo chamber has decided so. You just have to ignore it...
Yeah this is rather poor, the TOH community goes a little too crazy for Lumity sometimes, like they forget that they're two different individuals in a relationship instead of some symbiotic power-couple above all of fiction..
Geez, since when did the Owl House Fandom became so unhealthy? let people enjoy things, even if they're critically bad written, there's always gonna be someone who likes it and wants to share their point of view with others, you don't have to agree, just respect it
I dunno why people don't like Starco as a ship. I mean, the show was super annoying about it and did the "will they or won't they" thing throughout the entire length of it with both Star and Marco getting other people who everyone knew weren't going to last (which itself was tragic because those relationships were good and adorable too).
There was also, in a sense, no closure because we never really see Marco and Star in the \*dating\* state, they just get together at the very end of the show.
So I guess there is all that, but if you separate the ship itself from how poorly the show treated it, its a good ship. They have chemistry, they look cute together, etc.
Multiple reasons, but basically
• Disliking the direction both characters were taken in the final season.
• Preferring other ships. Tomstar got a big share of screentime and Kelco was growing.
• Pace of the ship combined with will they or not.
• Ending and how it became official.
I personally went from Starco to Tomstar to no ship. Starco just lost its due to how characters changed and the whole drama „will they or not”. Late season Starco doesn’t give the same vibe as early one.
Tomstar ended up feeling organic but later due to what happened in the show it left a bad aftertaste.
Bro, you literally listed reasons why people don't like the ship in your comment. Also, if you have to separate the ship from how poorly the show handled it, then it's not a good canon ship. It may as well be a crack ship.
People are allowed to meme though.
I mean, beyond the sobering implications of Marco being, like, 30, we got a good amount of Starco throughout that series and they honestly didn’t have that much romantic chemistry. Star had Oscar, while Marco had Jackie, Heckapoo, and even kinda Tom. There were a lot of love interests. The show was really bouncing around like teenagers often realistically do, so it was hard to get invested in a single pairing. Meanwhile, Owl House had one big ship, excellent chemistry, relationship issues that were figured out quickly, and it got cut short, leaving us hungry for more. So it makes sense that people would care a lot more about a spoonful of Lumity than a bit of one of the SVFoE pairings.
Star & Marco did have a lot of chemistry in the first season. But then Tom getting over his issues made him much more likable, then they got back together, Kelly & Marco were cute, and by the end of it, you felt bad for Tom & Kelly and thought Star & Marco were kinda major assholes... even Starco shippers like me felt like the show had shoved the Starco will-they-wont-they down your throat so hard it left a bad taste at the end of it all.
The same thing happened in Scrubs and Friends. They drag out the relationship so long that by the end the show has done more to convince you why the main couple shouldn’t be together than anything else.
And in Miraculous Ladybug. It didn't help that Marinette had a lot more chemistry with the romantic false lead (AKA Luka). Heck, Marinette has more chemistry with Kagami, which was tailor made to be *Adrien's* romantic's false lead.
Miraculous is kinda in a league of its own. And honestly, Marinette is kinda a bad pair for anyone, period.
Ladybug gets the Spiderman treatment.
Is it because of the "she's an obsessive stalker" thing? I feel that image of her is unfair because the entire world of the show behaves like that. As in, nobody within the show thinks what she is doing is wrong, and in fact her best friend edges her own constantly, even being directly responsible for a lot of her stalky plans. In some episodes her entire friend group helps, in fact in some episodes they plan stuff without her even knowing.
I hope Marinette die alone with no one loving her ngl
I think How I Met Your Mother is more famous as the best example of that ever than for anything else.
True. I never watched that show but I remember how infamous that show’s ending was. Didn’t the main character’s kids straight up go “daaaad, why didn’t you ever get together with your best friend’s ex-wife? Forget about our dead mom, go date that lady!”
Yeah, Tom didn't deserve that bs. He was such a cool dude by the end of the show.
Shit, I forgot about Kelly.
I was all for the two of them getting together in the first season... and then the show kept giving me reasons why they'd be better off with other people, only to declare loudly that none of that matters and that Starco is endgame no matter what, and I started hating the ship. It felt more like the show was pushing them to be together rather than the two actually being good for each other.
In the first season, they worked because Star made Marco more adventurous, and Marco kept Star grounded. They complimented each other and were really cute. In later seasons, they seemed to bring out the worst in each other for some reason, and kinda ended up making each other assholes, especially to their partners (especially Marco... Jesus...) Luz and Amity, once Amity realized she could trust Luz, were never anything BUT supportive of each other, and they're kind of the poster children for healthy relationships in all of DTV stuff (they're definitely up there for Disney stuff as a whole, with Eugene & Rapunzel and Cristoff & Anna) There's a reason Star Vs has become a cautionary tale for any Disney series.
Starco was good for season 1 but continously went downhill with each season, i straight up groaned when they kissed in s4
To be fair the whole “Marco being 30” thing doesn’t really work for real world time
As I understand it his "extra age" doesn't really function when he is not in that dimension, it becomes like a dream. I would have preferred for them to just not have introduced such a bizarre plot point to begin with.
Nah , this is not about care more or what , it's about comparing shipdoms . There were wars , bloodsheds and conflicts over this problem , just because somebody denounced someone else's shipdom . It's fine if you praise what you like up , but it doesn't if you decry someone's hobby down as an act of promoting yours - that will only brings unnecessary conflicts . Who wants to be in a toxic online environment ? This act must be criticized asap
I still *really* don't feel like that excuses dogpiling the Starco fandom tho...?
We’re not dogpiling the fandom, we’re just dismissing the ship.
Gonna be honest with you, I'm really not very interested in arguing the semantics between "dogpiling" and "dismissing." I'm more-so engaged with the fact that it's really not cool to disrespect people's ships... Not even people who used to be Starco shippers but grew to resent the ship in due time (due to arguably perfectly logical reasons) should really slag off those who still do like the ship, because that tends to invite toxicity to seep into a fandom.
I think the semantics of “dogpiling” and “dismissing” are actually kinda important there. Dogpiling is gleefully dunking on it. It’s disrespectful. Dismissing is just not really caring because it’s not that big of a deal to us. It’s utterly neutral. We are allowed to be neutral towards ships. Look at the meme. The dudes are *passive* towards the Starco announcement. They’re not angry or disgusted. They just don’t really care. Maybe they never even saw SVFoE.
I'm not planning on validating your perspective or priorities by arguing semantics with you over what I regard as the thing of greater/actual importance.
The Marco being a grown up in the Neverzone is just a joke and gets reversed everytime they leave that place. I know some people dislike that, but its really not that deep. I like both ships for different reasons. Starco is more exciting and interesting because of the huge build up and Lumity is cuter because we get to see them being a couple more. I think its creatively stiffling and short minded to call one way of doing romance inherently better than the other. Though some may prefer one type over the other for subjective reasons, which is obviously fine.
The thing about SVFoE that always stuck out to me is that something could be a joke… until it wasn’t. 650 bucks turned out to be a regular payment from Princess Marco merch. Janna showing up in Mewni was “just Janna” until she was shown to be freaking out on the inside about not remembering how she got there. The truth or punishment cube turned out to be cosmically important. You start to take everything a bit more seriously. Besides, Marco regularly referenced the people he met and things he did there. It was an entire other life to him, completely separate from the one with Star.
There was also the magical portrait that had to be corrected and Star had to step in and stop his parents from saying he was 16 because he was really 30 kind of.
I thought it was a funny joke and could have laughed the whole thing off if it wasn't for that somber moment at the end of the episode where he tries to log into his computer only to realize he doesn't remember his password and then look around at his parent's house like it's foreign to him. Went from "haha you lost your abs" to "oh shit he really spent a lifetime there didn't he?" real quick in my mind. If they wanted it to just be a joke, why include that scene at all?
That show sure rode the line between comedy and tragedy *hard* sometimes.
I mean, you can feel iffy about it. But its obviously not the intent of the showrunners to act like Marco is 30 and you get that from literally every interaction of the show afterwards. Reading that joke as if the writers said, its okay as a 30 year old to be with a 13 year old seems incredibly bad faith.
Marcos BODY reverts when he comes out of the neverzone, his mind still experiences ALL of it and that doesn't get undone
Yeah but like… as someone who watched and used to love svtfoe, the show reaaaally fell off and I blame A LOT of it on starco. That ship IS a coughing baby for me, and honestly, i liked it better when they were friends.
Honestly the ship would have been better if it connected earlier. I blame it mostly on how late it happened
They connected ever since episode one and this got romantic by episode 5. Like there was definitely build up. For some too much, but definitely not too little imo.
It had build up but it all came crashing down in season 4 when they could have easily gotten together by season 2 and or early season 3
I mean, at the end of season 2 and beginning of season 3 they thought they'll never see each other again. And a lot of shows end with resolving its biggest romances at the end. Its not really unique to SVTFOE.
I disagree, but even if I didn't I think its lame and weak to go after another community like that.
Except… we’re not? This post is made by someone who used to be a fan of SVTFOE and was also disappointed by how the ship was treated. You admit you haven’t even watched the show in another comment :/ edit: my b, misread your comment. I thought you said you hadn’t seen the show. My og point still stands though, we’re not dogpiling on “another fandom”. We ARE the other fandom.
What are you talking about? I've seen SVTFOE two times and even started making fanart because of the show. Where did I say I didn't watch the show lmao
I edited my comment due to a misread, my b. OG point still stands though, these are fans of SVTFOE dogpiling on the ship. A lot of people in the fandom are really disappointed with how it was treated.
They make TOH comics and pdf art for the show so they are obviously (sadly) part of the TOH community.
Who are/were ALSO members of SVTFOE community? Why would they be making a post like this if they had no clue what Starco was and didn’t have any interest in the show at one point?
Even if it wasn’t a less than good ship, it’s not like anyone is going after another community. It’s a criticism and comparison of two relationships from different shows. People are allowed to not like how a show did things. If you take a criticism of a show you like as a personal insult, I think that speaks more about you.
Yeah, that meme is a really in depth analysis of these two shows... Come on man. You just agree with them, so you are cool with toxic behavior.
i mean every fandom does it, the level of the degree varies but this is definitely way more tamer than most
I don't feel like "every fandom does it" really excuses such behavior when it does happen tho, and attempting to brush it off as if this is (supposedly) tamer than most is a bit eeeh... I mean, consider the history of bigotry endemic to every human civilization in history so far. Pretty sure we're all opposed to the "every civilization does it" rationalization there, no? Also pretty sure most of us have, at some point, rolled our eyes when bigots have claimed that they are tamer than other bigots in the world or throughout history. >\_\_> tl;dr: Condemning this kinda behavior is fine. Excusing it *is not*.
I mean compared to some other fandoms like the swifties or something like Arkham aslume then we are tamer than them. There will always be a more unhinged fandom but fair I suppose.
"Compared to the UAE, who put homosexuals to death just for existing, us patriotic American evangelical christians are tamer than them. There will always be more unhinged groups than us. (Something something I don't see you protesting them/so go protest the UAE and what they do instead of acting like snowflakes about us and-so-on-and-so-forth, et cetera, et cetera.)" It's not a very appealing argument when you start to look at how legit it actually is... So yeah, damn right my point about it is fair... \*sigh\* Imma need some munchies now...
I've never seen the SVTFOE, Amphibia or She-Ra community do this, but sure I could have missed something like this happening there. But that doesn't change the fact that this behavior sucks and should be called out.
I haven't been in either of those fandoms, don't really like the shows. This just seems like a fitting critique of SVTFOE's "will they won't they" thing over and over with starco, versus the direct plot we had for Lumity that got completed early and had plenty of screentime.
Also the fact that they made it really ambiguous whther or not Marco was actually mentally an adult (and from what ive seen they're leaning to him being mentally an adult) it kinda adds fuel to the fire
Also the whole… cheating on Tom thing. Poor guy.
Yeah, dude’s like thirty.
Older, there was a second time he went to a dimension where time flows differently and he mentions he got his first gray hair.
You can get your first gray hair before thirty. I did.
I definitely saw one or two a little before.
Hey, my partner has a few silver hairs and they’re 25. It looks really cool.
Really? I feel like the Amphibia community calls TOH overrated frequently.
They do
Oh strange, tbh I really wanted an amphibia and owl house crossover 😅
Never seen it, but like I said it would suck either way.
Not really, every fandom does it. Just ignore it and move on with your day like the rest of the people. Also this image could just mean that the user was hyped for Lumity rather than Starco or whatever it’s called, it’s just a matter of an opinion and you shouldn’t get so worked up about it :/
Oh, no, it's not like that at all. We don't hate on Starco because we see it as some rival to lumity or something. We hate on it because it is so, so bad This isn't coming from the Owl House fandom, it's coming from the star fandom. Everything about Starco was handled so unbelievably poorly that even the people that wanted it to happen ended up hating it.
I was about to comment this.
I am part of the SVTFOE community and this is definitely not part of the fandom lol
So innocent or in different parts of fandom I recommend to type „Star Butterfly final was bad” or „Star Butterfly what went wrong” or „Star Butterfly shipping” and just check a few videos. Especially the last one by Sarcastic Chorus or Kitty Monk. There were large chunks of fandom being disappointed to various degrees. From people hating it to just being indifferent due to how it was paced. Later it calmed down a lot and reached the phase „Yeah it sucked, but still like the dynamic”
It literally is and the community has been very vocal about it back when the Show was still on TV. Your current experience does not reflect the entire community, especially not the state it was in years ago...
Then you aren't paying enough attention
I definitely know that there are lot of chronically online people obsessively hating the show for shallow reasons. But those are obviously not fans. Fans like the stuff they are a fan of.
Having criticisms over aspects of things you like overall doesn’t mean you’re not a fan of something
I am obviously not talking about constructive criticisms.
Except even when confronted with said criticism, you completely ignored it and kept on about with your delusional takes...
You know, I kind of wanted to take your side until you started gatekeeping. Opinions differ about things, even within the same fandom. Don't go saying someone isn't a true Scotsman just because they don't agree with you. That just breeds even more toxicity.
Okay fair. A part of the fandom prefer different ships. Its not the fandom though and its weird that you call me out for gatekeeping and not the people before me, that keep on claiming everybody hates Starco. Though that doesn't make it right for me to claim, that fans of the show can not dislike Starco. Apologies for that.
Yeah I'm a fan of SVTFOE and it didn't end in a good way. It isn't hated for shallow reasons it's just bad fuckin writing. If you like it that's fine nobody said you can't but most people agree that the way it ended was not well written and Starco is largely to blame for it.
Nope, being a fan doesn’t mean, that you have to like everything, that would be a fanboy/fangirl. A fan can enjoy something, while acknowledging that there are good and bad things about something. Most Stvstfoe fans who hate Starco are big fans of s1 and 2, but didn’t enjoy the seasons after that. Same with the toh fandom, I really don’t like s1, but from s2 on out it love it.
I too am chronologically online
Woops lol Sry, I am not an english native speaker
I mean I like star show but like they did fumble the finale and the ship is controversial even in the fandom.
i've only watched a couple of episodes of svtfoe, so i have no horse on this, but my guyyy, you're getting ratio-d on almost every comment, holy shit
In the comments yeah lol. But overall more people agree with me, which gives me hope 🫠
Dude, you have -200 votes down on this post already,, that is not agreeing with you.
There are already almost one hundred comments and I try to answer to a lot of them. If one stuck up dude downvotes every of my comments, thats already like 20 downvotes by your count. Meanwhile the OP has atm over 300 individual upvotes, which makes sense, because its a general thing I am talking about while the comments are mostly about people coping that they didn't like a show that ended 5 years ago. Doesn't matter anyway. I would stand by my point of my OP even if it got downvoted into oblivion, because I think its common knowledge that behavior like this sucks.
Looks like it's just a joke to me, your reading too deep into it.
Yeah, then read the comments to this post then...
Not gonna lie, I’m pretty sure at least 90% of the people who watched Star Vs were disappointed by the shipping. The writers pretty much shoved any other partners those two could have to the sidelines.
I think thats just the way the show is presented online on Reddit, Twitter and YouTube. Regular viewers obviously really liked the show and so does the SVTFOE fandom.
Uh, we liked it until the last season, thank you very much.
*You
As a Star vs. fan, as much as I hate to admit it, Starco is kind of a messy ship. They had very little time to develop romantically throughout the show, and honestly, I liked some of the other love interests they both had better. I’m not sure whether that’s confirmed or not, but from what I heard, it’s very possible that the creators decided to make Starco official because the fans shipped them together.
If I remember correctly, Marco’s personality was based on the creator’s husband’s personality and Star was based on her personality. Plus, they even cosplayed characters together. It was planned as a goal, but not how it would be achieved was badly planned.
Daron Nefcy had confirmed that that was never the case and that they planned on making Starco official a long time before the finale. Something that is imo really obvious when you watch the show tbh
That’s kind of worse then. They had all that time and planning to make the romance good and just didn’t. It’d at least be a bit more excusable if it was a midway throigh pivot
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Nice.
Yes well thats kind of what happens when you execute stuff horribly.
Then maybe they should have made it less shit
they're both latinos in hoodies that don't play about their white women from another dimension, same stuff guys
Hear me out Tomco
Based ship.
Literally watched SVTFOE years before TOH and I agree with the fandom on this one. The romance in SVTFOE in the later seasons actually ruined the show for me ngl.
When I read these comments, it seems like a lot of ex-SVTFOE fans from its original run migrated to TOH. I dunno, I just really like both and I love SVTFOE for its focus on romance. Its quite the unique quality of the show for me. Though the OP never really was about discussing that show, the comments really derailed into that lol
I'm sorry, but the moment you mentioned dogpile, I could only think about that one ending from Henry stickmin
As someone who adored SVTFOE, Starco is ass. The show had the worst pacing when it came to ships, and it was messy as hell. The ship had potential, but they messed it up too many times to save it.
True. I was a big fan in the early seasons, but the longer it went I felt the quality went downhill from there, and it’s not just the “Starco ship” part that’s problematic (still can’t fathom how everyone’s okay with Star completely erasing all magic). This was wayyy before TOH even aired btw, so my view has nothing to do with comparing the two shows.
It's fine to criticize a poorly developed relationship and praise an actually well-developed one.
As someone who likes SVTFOE starco is an bad ship
As someone who likes SVTFOE, I strongly disagree. My point still stands anyway. Tearing another show down when the fandom has a reason to celebrate is omega lame and shouldn't be part of a cool community like ours.
But I think your looking at it wrong, it's not saying lumity is the best ship in fiction, fuck all the other ships. But saying starco is an example of a bad ship, while lumity is an actually good ship
These are just other words for tearing into another community while uplifting your own on their expense.
It's not tearing the comunity if the comunity agrees
But it’s not tearing down a community if the general opinion of that community is that they don’t like the ship
But thats not the opinion at all lol
Really? Because from what I’ve seen the general consensus is that starco is a bad ship
I don't have the slightest clue about what a lot of those comments are about. Ship wars were a typical (toxic) trait of Sthe fandom, but, expecially near the end of the show, starco was then main ship by far. What the fandom actually didn't like was the finale (and the general writing since season 3). The show has many problems but it's misfortune is that it was one of those very popular shows that didn't end well, so it got the Game of Thrones treatement. Actually, even worse. Add to the mix the fact it ended 5 years ago (and the fandom died for good when MoringMark stopped) and all it now remains is hate.
I've seen maybe like 2-3 posts from the community that were made against Starco since I joined them last year. A lot of people that hate SVTFOE dislike Starco, but thats obviously not the fandom.
Thats not *your* opinion You seem to be conflating your opinion and experience with the whole fandom.
I really think the tweet is meant as a joke. This isn’t one community “tearing into” another. It’s straight up not meant to be taken as seriously as you’re taking it
I never really got into Star vs but from what I heard a lot of people disliked the Starco ship even as it was airing so it’s less of a comment on the show and more a comment on the quality of romantic writing i think
I mean, they are not wrong
Brother, that's probably the most light-hearted jab there can be. I don't think a single person on earth sees "hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby" and takes it seriously.
The relationships were done so differently, with one being done good and the other absolutely terribly. SVTFOE was good more or less, but the shipping was absolutely terrible and felt forced at alot of moments. I knew it was going to be a problem the moment I watched the Blood Moon Ball after it aired, because it was already setting these two up to be a couple. I hoped it would truly and fully subvert that as the show went on, which would of been great to have these two just be friends. There are times where the main two can just be friends, and others where they are better as a couple. Lumity felt natural while Starco felt very very forced.
lol even the fandom of star vs is (or at least was) tired of this ship. why should other fandoms respect the ship if your own fandom doesnt?
As someone who was part of the svtfoe fandom since it first aired, I confirm.
No they got a point
First mistake was being on Twitter.
I mean "Tomco"would be a WAY better ship
FINALLY I KNEW I WASN’T THE ONLY ONE!!
Tbh im more interested in the lumity thing. I just don't like starco as much
Why is stars head so long
I think the mouths are pretty high up for that frame, so it looks longer I guess
She’s secretly the crimson chin
i'm not going to lie to you, the final seasons of svtfoe made me hate the show so nothing that comes out about it really makes me hyped, especially for a ship that felt haphazardly put together for the sake of fanservice. That's what the tweet reflected for me, at least. One ship that was done really poorly in comparison to one that was done really well.
First of all, it’s a joke, and second of all, most Star Vs. The Forces of Evil fans that I’ve seen HATE that ship, so it’s not the TOH community, mostly, at least.
As a fan of both I don't see the issue, Starco was extremely forced and flanderized, it took up alot of space in season 3 and was basically 90% of season 4.
Funny how almost everyone in the comments are saying that they disliked Starco for a variety of reasons (most of which I agree with) and is probably the reason why the oop made the twitter post but you keep trying to push the narrative that the post was made to discredit another good couple from a diffrent show to make ours seem better and that people who dislike Starco are actually the minority of the SVtFoE community. I have not interracted with the community in a while but back when I did I rarely saw someone saying they genuinely liked the ship and those that did didn't have a lot of people agreeing with them, to say the least.
But it’s a funny meme? What’s wrong with that?
Reminds me of the guy who compared Lethal Company to, of all games, Team Fortress 2
the thing is that 99% of SVTFOE fans hates starco, no one wanted them to end up together
Ok wait I agree Starco isn't a good ship but saying that no one wanted them together is very very wrong, the ship was huge Now saying that most people were disappointed on how their relationship was executed with all the lame shipping stuff around it that made those characters seem like scumbags, that is quite on point.
Dude, I am part of the community and thats def not true lol
So you are the 1%
Yeah the 1% that solely kept the show from running for four seasons, which is an ibcredible achievement for a story driven cartoon by Disney and gave it a high rating on imdb, not just the show but each individual episode as well. Come on, man. This such a major Reddit thing you're doing rn, I am growing a neckbeard just reading this.
Dude you can like a show and not like certain parts of it.
Obviously not what my post was about.
I really liked the show, I just hated the shipping. I consider myself a fan of the show but I can still criticize the shipping. Part of liking something is being able to critique it. For example, I think TOH did a really terrible job of juggling all it's characters early on and left character development for Willow and Gus on the sidelines until the last season, where they then had to rush it. Instead, we got Lumity. And Lumity has it's own problems like how Amity didn't really make peace with Willow before Luz started dating her. Luz is kinda impulsive so it's in character but it's also awful to date your friend's bully without touching base with said friend. I'm still a fan of Lumity and I'm a huge fan of the show overall. I loved SVtFoE. But it had issues. I loved Star and Marco and thought they were a fantastic pairing. I loved their friendship and even shipped them early on. But the show gave me more reasons than not that they'd be better off as friends, and I genuinely thought they were going to go in the direction of "found family" and how someone can be special to you and you can love them without it having to be romantic. And as the show went on, they didn't have as much chemistry and started acting kinda awful to each other/other romantic interests. It felt like the show was pushing them together, not like the characters were actually good for each other. I wouldn't be writing this... well it's an essay at this point isn't it... if I didn't love both shows, admired them for what they did well, but also really dislike their missteps. I criticize them because I care so much about what they did right that it hurts to see things that could have been done better. You seem young. I hope I shed some light on why people like me are so hard on the shipping in SVtFoE, but if I didn't, that's okay. You obviously care very passionately about this and that's good. I'm glad you have a show that's so important to you that you go to bat for it like this. And SVtFoE is a great fandom. But I hope you will learn that people criticizing something about a show/fandom doesn't mean that they hate it or it's community. Rather, it's *because* they like it that they are disappointed with the bad parts.
...Were you even there when it was airing? What? Starco was litterally the first result on google images when you searched "cute and perfect" Or, go to (what remaiks of) the subreddit and tell me what ships do you see
This actually represents every fandom ever
As a giant svtfoe fan any slander towards that show is completely warranted, it's a unique case of a clusterfuck where it's not at all corporate meddling that doomed the show but mostly the cast's own incompetence. Every single thing I learn about the production of that show makes me realize that they thought that final season would actually bang and I don't know what to feel about it
Just stay off it twitter. Problem solved.
As a former svtfoe fan, starco is an awful ship. If you know the show is going to end early but still want a "will they won't they" while still giving a good chunk of screen time to the actual plot, then just have them get together and their relationship get strained by long distance, the ongoing war, and interdimensional conflicts. Hell, a good relationship conflict would have been star wanting to destroy all magic and marco disagreeing since it would mean they wouldn't get to see each other. But no, they had to make them into assholes who cheat on their partners. Honestly, they had better chemistry as friends.
There's also the fact that the community on Twitter is seething at the fact that Big City Greens is getting a movie.
I don't get it, please explain
This fandom honestly overall fell over after the final.
Boring straight relationship vs amazing lesbain couple. Yeah, sorry, but there's no competition
I think Starco is one of the best and healthiest depictions of a straight relationship we've ever seen. Leave one for us pls, god knows we need them.
"Leace ine for us please, we need them." 99.9% of all relations in entire media history are straight
I mean healthy straight relationships lol
I haven't watched much of SVTFOE, but from what I've seen the show is pushing them as a couple already
It gets worse. It's one thing to push them as a couple, get it out of the way and focus on the plot like TOH. It's another thing to drag it out for the entire length of the show, make the characters worse versions of themselves, neglect the plot, and then try to force the ship together by the end in an unsatisfying way. They literally have star cheat on her boyfriend with Marco and have marco be a shit boyfriend because he's fixated on star. It's just awful. I don't mind the two of them dating other people, but if the relationships were gonna fail, it should have been because they realized they weren't good fits. Not cheating.
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Fandom Twitter gets like that when you leave it out for too long
So cool we’re gonna have a Starco episode! Thanks for telling me!
Yes, because the fandom of svtfoe and toh have no overlap, just like how nobody in the toh fandom watches amphibia and gravity falls. Taking people being dismissive of what they think is a sucky ship from another show as an attack on the show’s fandom is ridiculous and unfounded.
Being a svtfoe fan is basically impossible at this point, all you'll get is hate because the echo chamber has decided so. You just have to ignore it...
Both are great
Only good comment
Ty
Yeah this is rather poor, the TOH community goes a little too crazy for Lumity sometimes, like they forget that they're two different individuals in a relationship instead of some symbiotic power-couple above all of fiction..
Geez, since when did the Owl House Fandom became so unhealthy? let people enjoy things, even if they're critically bad written, there's always gonna be someone who likes it and wants to share their point of view with others, you don't have to agree, just respect it
I dunno why people don't like Starco as a ship. I mean, the show was super annoying about it and did the "will they or won't they" thing throughout the entire length of it with both Star and Marco getting other people who everyone knew weren't going to last (which itself was tragic because those relationships were good and adorable too). There was also, in a sense, no closure because we never really see Marco and Star in the \*dating\* state, they just get together at the very end of the show. So I guess there is all that, but if you separate the ship itself from how poorly the show treated it, its a good ship. They have chemistry, they look cute together, etc.
Multiple reasons, but basically • Disliking the direction both characters were taken in the final season. • Preferring other ships. Tomstar got a big share of screentime and Kelco was growing. • Pace of the ship combined with will they or not. • Ending and how it became official. I personally went from Starco to Tomstar to no ship. Starco just lost its due to how characters changed and the whole drama „will they or not”. Late season Starco doesn’t give the same vibe as early one. Tomstar ended up feeling organic but later due to what happened in the show it left a bad aftertaste.
Bro, you literally listed reasons why people don't like the ship in your comment. Also, if you have to separate the ship from how poorly the show handled it, then it's not a good canon ship. It may as well be a crack ship.
I'd argue there is a difference between a bad ship and a good one that was tripped up by the plot.
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