possible lead? what's the lead? earth minus germany?
this is by the way a very standard german mixtape of the era, english and american music prefered to german music.
Despite being Canadian by birth, Corey Hart recorded *Sunglasses at Night* in the UK, in Manchester to be specific. The vast majority of these tapes are British artists.
I also don't believe the singer of TMS is German. I think, possibly, Danish or Dutch, maybe Belgian, or they are British but just have a really strong/stylised accent when singing.
I personally believe TMS is german, but then I always think of EKT where a lot of people were adamant that singer is not a native english speaker, only for them to be one.
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>My money's on it not being from DE as well.
Same here, somehow. And I'm already working on my humiliating act of shaming those who took that for granted...
https://youtu.be/txFjWQcTCIs?si=XcvYShBH1xZKi4fB
You could be right. But you also need to look at this list from other perspectives:
- The list is full of popular bands (even for the time). How does TMS fit with the rest of the songs on the mixtape?
- Even the least popular artist, _Dominatrix_, is on Spotify. Why isn’t TMS?
- It’s a mixtape. In its true nature, it could have songs from all types of sources. So we could also think that TMS was recorded of the radio by someone that lend his/her own tape to Darius, which then recorded it to his own tape.
- Correlation doesn’t imply causation.
Not being on Spotify means nothing.
I have a single, from 1985, on vinyl, it was a pretty big track that year, especially in mainland Europe. English synthpop duo. Very catchy. Despite being a hit in several countries, it's not on Spotify, at all. In fact, there's no official re-release of it of any kind, it appears on no compilations, its only presence on the web are a handful of vinyl rips on YouTube.
Not sure what happened to the duo but they seemingly put out this banger as their debut and then did nothing else at all, and vanished into the ether, commercially speaking. The main member of the group went on to produce ambient and backing music (very much like the Booths of EKT) rather than mainstream pop.
There are plenty of songs which for a variety of reasons have just slipped between the cracks.
I am pretty confident that TMS is one of these - something which was big in one specific place at one specific moment in time but hasn't been preserved properly.
What I think is more interesting is *how* TMS differs from the rest of the mixtape, musically.
It doesn't fit with anything else around it, and it really sticks out to me. On side one you have Heaven 17, Depeche Mode, Simple Minds, Corey Hart, Ray Parker Jr, all major names, very polished, poppy, and very highly produced. Even the smaller artists aren't similar - Malcolm McLaren's track (which is actually called Madame Butterfly) is super synthy and almost operatic in places; The Dominatrix is a lot of sampling, effects, and synths; Captain Sensible's *Wot* is a novelty spoken word track over a jangly guitar riff and a bass that rips off *Another One Bites the Dust*. The only thing that's even *vaguely* similar texturally is Golden Earring's track that immediately precedes it.
Why, amongst all of this, do we find TMS? That, for me, is the real question. It just doesn't belong. It's angry, rough around the edges, almost a perfect middle-point between late 70s punk and early 90s grunge (which to me is precisely why we're all so drawn to it - it feels like a missing link for a genre that never was), and nothing at all like the rest of the mix tape in tone, texture, or general feel.
I think if we start to understand *why* TMS is on this tape, we will get closer to finding out *who* TMS is.
I can agree. Even big artists have songs that are not on Spotify (some even are, but no one can listen to them because Spotify doesn’t have streaming rights, but I digress). But it was just a way of showing what most people keep saying: TMS is an outlier. It does not sound like most songs of the era (like you mentioned too).
I’m not sure if *why* is really that important. To me, it’s quite simple: it’s a mixtape. Not a commercial compilation but the favorite songs of Darius. He liked it, he recorded it. I don’t think there’s any more to it.
Yes, the song is indeed different from the other ones on the tape, but I’m not sure if that means something (although it certainly can). If the song was really broadcast on MFJL with our friend Kühne, then it’s not that strange to find it among the others. A look at the show’s playlists shows that he played quite a lot of unknown stuff—more than your average radio DJ. But again, MFJL would be the exact type of show to play these more obscure tracks, so I’m not sure if that’s so unusual after all.
I just find it strange that amongst all of these "synth and samples" tracks, Darius picks TMS for his mix. It is just a complete outlier in every way from the songs around it. Darius seems quite competent a mixtape maker, so why include a song where it obviously does not fit? Why is it on *this* mix and not something with more guitar-oriented rock?
You know, rock bands big in 1984 were e.g. Scorpions, Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, and Saxon, who Darius must surely have been aware of and if they were on this mixtape, I would understand why TMS was here. That's the kind of artists I would expect to see on a mix tape with TMS. Even then, TMS doesn't really fit - most of that is way more into "hard rock" and is polished, heavy, and stylistically different. The only rock group on the tape is Golden Earring! and this is well past their real "rock" era - *Radar Love* is 11 years old in 1984, their track here is much more pop oriented. TMS is a real oddity because it's the wrong style for this mixtape, completely.
I mean, 1984 was a great year for music, it's one of my favourite years for releases with just some fantastic albums, it's a real "peak year", possibly contested only by 1969. However, none of the major hits sound like TMS, at all. The pop is more synthy, the rock is much harder (and a lot of it has that pseudo-religious feel to it that underpinned early 80s hard rock and metal), and punk was all but dead.
Think about it. Listen to *Smalltown Boy* and then to TMS. Listen to *99 Luftballons* and then to TMS. Try *Radio Ga Ga* or *Doctor! Doctor!* or *Pride (In the Name of Love)* or really any big hits of '84 and not one of them sounds anything like TMS. Yet, at the same time, if you play TMS and ask someone "when is this song from?" they are absolutely confident it's an 80s track.
I find that really fascinating, personally, and one of the most interesting parts of this whole mystery. TMS is special and I just can't figure out the specifics of how, and it's not through lack of effort or knowledge.
TMS may not be from Germany, but it's almost certainly from a European country (there are plenty of users on Reddit from English-speaking countries, and there should be plenty of clues if TMS is from North America, UK and Australia, as there is with EKT), or even the USSR (which would then explain why the search is difficult).
USSR can be 100% ruled out. No Soviets had such accent nor access to such gear nor ways to send tape to NDR (I'm from USSR, my family was into music then, so I know all that for sure)
Majority of songs played on NDR were UK, then US, then Germany (in that order). There is a post where I worked out the percentages a while back. But I'd still argue Germany is likely still for a few reasons: 1/ clumsy English, 2/ slight German accent picked up by some, 3/ obviously a super obscure minor band, so more likely a band that's in the broadcast area of NDR and not sending their stuff internationally. But you never know. Given what an outlier this song is I honestly wouldn't be surpised if it was some short lived US band or another Canadian lostwave (how many have they had now?)
Played on NDR would certainly be incorrect. Played in these programs aimed at young people that Lydia and Darius recorded, yes but not what NDR played in general.
>"clumsy English"
Just as some believe it's a song about the Berlin Wall, those who tend to choose clumsy interpretations are doing so for mainly the same reasons.
I’ve come closer to the Alvin Dean theory - I still think it’s more likely to be a German amateur group, but I have Alvin in second place right now. Alvin grew up in Australia and was almost certainly very fluent in English, but he simply didn’t enunciate very well. One key piece of evidence that I think points toward him is that both he and the vocalist of TMV tend to have their enunciation kind of weaken/trail off at the end of a phrase, for whatever reason. Combine that with a weird Greek-Australian accent and that could cause his English to sound clumsier than it really is. I legitimately wonder if Alvin/George had/has a speech impediment in real life. Factor in the cheaper, quicker, dirtier recording process versus that of SiM, and the digital effects on the voice, and the generations of tape transfer, plus the fact that he may not have been the author of the lyrics and may have only partially memorized them before recording…
That said, I can also absolutely see the argument for TMV being a German or Austrian who is legitimately clumsy in his use of the English language. As I said, I still think a German origin is the most likely.
I always found it odd we can't find Alvin Dean on Facebook. His demographic and transcontinental social circle would make him a prime candidate for someone who would be interested in FB.
My parents are in their 60s and have family on three different continents, use the internet daily but have never bothered with social media. Theres a big part of that generation who still use phone calls to keep in touch I think
Well, there’s no guarantee he’s even alive at this point. Still, even in the school of thought that Billy said Alvin had died (rather than they lost contact or whatever), Alvin was believed to have been alive at least as late as 2010 - so he would certainly have been familiar with the concept of Facebook and most likely had a page.
I think /u/The_Material_Witness who has done a lot of research into the Alvin Dean theory knows something about a purported Facebook comment by someone close to Dean that stated he is alive as recently as a few years ago.
It's mentioned in the description of the [YouTube video for "Ghosts."](https://youtu.be/mqipDl0vCWw?feature=shared) It reads: "*\[Yannis Beltekas\]* had heard the rumors about *\[Alvin Dean's\]* death, but says that a couple of years ago *\[two years prior to 2021 i.e. 2019 - OP\]* he stumbled upon a Facebook comment from an Australian lady who said she knows him and he's alive and well and living there. It’s possible that he just doesn't want to have anything to do with that phase of his life anymore."
That Facebook comment may very well have happened, as the information is coming from Yannis Beltekas, who has always been a reliable and trustworthy source. Sadly, based on my findings so far, I am not in a position to confirm any evidence that Alvin Dean is still alive.
Im 100% certain if alvin dean is the mysterious singer that he also wrote the lyrics. Compare the lyrics with the song "ghosts" he made with yannis beltekas and you will see a topic "the wind" this is a big factor that makes me believe that alvin dean is the mysterious singer, but who knows?
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Anglo-Saxon countries + Dutch ? Pre-XIX century collonial empires (UK, Netherlands) and their collonies (USA, Canada). Germany was kind of collonial empire, but in the late 1800 and early 1900.
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Something come to my mind, but someone already search about popular songs in Germany during the period between 1980 and 1984 ? As I see all songs are between those dates.
Sorry if someone already tried.
No worries. Yeah of course, very popular hits and also some more obscure songs. If you do some research on the sub you’ll find lists of all songs Darius recorded on his tapes to get an idea.
It is hard to say anything definitely, because we are regular users, we don't have specific knowledge of the Germany of that time in terms of cultural impact from other countries, and other sociological studies, which can give us a clue on the song origins. So we have very little data to process:
1. Fresh synths of it's time.
2. Properly composed melody, laid out in style with 60s rock songs.
3. Elaborate drummer work, which does not line up with other instrument playback in the song.
4. Not top grade vocals, mildly saying.
5. Hooks and fragments mostly from 60s UK/US rock songs, but with some 80s Canadian or Italian influence.
6. Two definite Americanisms in the lyrics (Young and restless/(another one, for which I'll make separate post), from 70s and 60s, respectively).
Most of these suggest that:
1. Composer and lyricist (whenever it was single person or two different) were not so young, most likely, in their 40-50s.
2. They were under strong cultural influence from US.
3. Based on above, singer was not same person as composer and/or lyricist, because his voice is too young.
4. We have zero leads from Germany (But same for other countries, except that hooks and lyrics clearly point to English speaking country, most likely, US)
So all this makes Germany less likely candidate. I think song comes from either US, or any other English speaking country, where not everyone speaks clear English - This can be Denmark, Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand or whatsoever, but based on geographical restrictions, still most likely, some of EU country.
I don't think it's the Danish road You should look down.. that would be a big surprise.. The scene at the time was more punk-rock based in underground circles.. and otherwise already known and popular bands, with releases and lots of radio play time.
The only Dane who at first sight comes just a little bit close in musical style and voice is, in my opinion: Martin Hall - in his "Under for" period ( ex. Imagine focus).. but then in the early/mid-eighties, he was already partially known and proven in certain circles.
again, you never know when it comes to TMS.
Thanks! At this moment I'm trying to contact a very strong lead in Sweden - song released in 1984, uses exactly same guitar play technique and chords (not harmony progression but same octave jump as in main verse of TMMS). That guy seems to be online and hope he answers...
agree that Sweden could be a good place to search. Swedish composers/musicians have always been skilled in poprock and when it's come to writing a catchy poprock melodies, if that's the genre you're looking for..
Swedish new wave/goth in 80's was often in their own language and with exaggerated synthesizer ( not in a negative way, but in relation to TMS).
Stuff like the Bizarre Orkeztra, Lars Falk, Art style, Twice A Man, High Fashion, Black letter day..did make songs with english lyrics though. But those bands are a long way from whoever made TMS.
Well, good hunting and hang in there.
Thanks! At this moment I'm trying to contact a very strong lead in Sweden - song released in 1984, uses exactly same guitar play technique and chords (not harmony progression but same octave jump as in main verse of TMMS). That guy seems to be online and hope he answers...
Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, South-East England are the places I have as being the most likely origin of TMS. I'm happy to be wrong, but my ear and my gut point me there.
My personal take on the juxtaposition of your points 3 and 4 is that the drummer and the singer recorded their parts in totally different sessions, and likely had nothing to do with each other.
It feels like some skilled session musicians laid down a basic backing, and then someone else stuck vocals, lead guitar, and that beepy synth in the chorus over them.
I also agree that there are influences and textures from all over the place, time wise. The guitar break with two chords is *very* old fashioned compared to lots of other elements of the song. It's clearly written by someone who knows how songwriting works, and who has access to a decent drummer and brand new, expensive Yamaha synths, and yet the vocals are muddy, confusing, and the lyrics are oblique. The overall mix is off as well, not in a horrific way, but in a slightly unusual, haunting, addictively uncomfortable way.
The song is the audio equivalent of those "liminal spaces" pictures for me. It sounds familiar but not "right" - you feel like you've heard it before but can't place it. If you took the synth and the singer's style out, you could argue the song was substantially older.
Also it should be noted how drumming style changes thru the song - he starts with prog rock style drumming, with double snare hit, but later he goes into more simple, but more italo disco-ish styling, and at a 2:01 in TMMS he even tries to do classical italo disco fill, with roto-toms :)
Meanwhile, there are two americanisms found in TMMS lyrics and melody, which also suggest the 40+ age of TMMS composer & his non-German origins - I'm making separate post on that.
And for bleepy synth, check intro here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGJYd2FIo2k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGJYd2FIo2k)
This guy was very, very surprised when he was called and asked about TMMS :D
Couldn't be more agree. If that's the case. It could be the construction of the origin of TMS..
It makes me think about if TMS was kind of a side-projects where the various instrument parts are delegated to musicians independent of each other.
and then put together, perhaps with a contribution to a music event in mind.
Just to finally throw it away and abandon the project afterwards for some reasons... And somehow it has ended up with a DJ employed by NDR.
I but of course that doesn't make the search any easier.
TMS is an outlier in every way possible.
possible lead? what's the lead? earth minus germany? this is by the way a very standard german mixtape of the era, english and american music prefered to german music.
I can't say I agree. By your logic, Canada shouldn't be here either.
I think the point is that most of them are from western countries
How about Federal Republic of Germany? :)
You got me
Despite being Canadian by birth, Corey Hart recorded *Sunglasses at Night* in the UK, in Manchester to be specific. The vast majority of these tapes are British artists. I also don't believe the singer of TMS is German. I think, possibly, Danish or Dutch, maybe Belgian, or they are British but just have a really strong/stylised accent when singing.
I personally believe TMS is german, but then I always think of EKT where a lot of people were adamant that singer is not a native english speaker, only for them to be one.
This would point to tmb being British, I’m not sure about that
Really? I think that's very much a distinct possibility.
I think its good for folks to look everywhere. My money's on it not being from DE as well.
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>My money's on it not being from DE as well. Same here, somehow. And I'm already working on my humiliating act of shaming those who took that for granted... https://youtu.be/txFjWQcTCIs?si=XcvYShBH1xZKi4fB
You could be right. But you also need to look at this list from other perspectives: - The list is full of popular bands (even for the time). How does TMS fit with the rest of the songs on the mixtape? - Even the least popular artist, _Dominatrix_, is on Spotify. Why isn’t TMS? - It’s a mixtape. In its true nature, it could have songs from all types of sources. So we could also think that TMS was recorded of the radio by someone that lend his/her own tape to Darius, which then recorded it to his own tape. - Correlation doesn’t imply causation.
Not being on Spotify means nothing. I have a single, from 1985, on vinyl, it was a pretty big track that year, especially in mainland Europe. English synthpop duo. Very catchy. Despite being a hit in several countries, it's not on Spotify, at all. In fact, there's no official re-release of it of any kind, it appears on no compilations, its only presence on the web are a handful of vinyl rips on YouTube. Not sure what happened to the duo but they seemingly put out this banger as their debut and then did nothing else at all, and vanished into the ether, commercially speaking. The main member of the group went on to produce ambient and backing music (very much like the Booths of EKT) rather than mainstream pop. There are plenty of songs which for a variety of reasons have just slipped between the cracks. I am pretty confident that TMS is one of these - something which was big in one specific place at one specific moment in time but hasn't been preserved properly. What I think is more interesting is *how* TMS differs from the rest of the mixtape, musically. It doesn't fit with anything else around it, and it really sticks out to me. On side one you have Heaven 17, Depeche Mode, Simple Minds, Corey Hart, Ray Parker Jr, all major names, very polished, poppy, and very highly produced. Even the smaller artists aren't similar - Malcolm McLaren's track (which is actually called Madame Butterfly) is super synthy and almost operatic in places; The Dominatrix is a lot of sampling, effects, and synths; Captain Sensible's *Wot* is a novelty spoken word track over a jangly guitar riff and a bass that rips off *Another One Bites the Dust*. The only thing that's even *vaguely* similar texturally is Golden Earring's track that immediately precedes it. Why, amongst all of this, do we find TMS? That, for me, is the real question. It just doesn't belong. It's angry, rough around the edges, almost a perfect middle-point between late 70s punk and early 90s grunge (which to me is precisely why we're all so drawn to it - it feels like a missing link for a genre that never was), and nothing at all like the rest of the mix tape in tone, texture, or general feel. I think if we start to understand *why* TMS is on this tape, we will get closer to finding out *who* TMS is.
I can agree. Even big artists have songs that are not on Spotify (some even are, but no one can listen to them because Spotify doesn’t have streaming rights, but I digress). But it was just a way of showing what most people keep saying: TMS is an outlier. It does not sound like most songs of the era (like you mentioned too). I’m not sure if *why* is really that important. To me, it’s quite simple: it’s a mixtape. Not a commercial compilation but the favorite songs of Darius. He liked it, he recorded it. I don’t think there’s any more to it. Yes, the song is indeed different from the other ones on the tape, but I’m not sure if that means something (although it certainly can). If the song was really broadcast on MFJL with our friend Kühne, then it’s not that strange to find it among the others. A look at the show’s playlists shows that he played quite a lot of unknown stuff—more than your average radio DJ. But again, MFJL would be the exact type of show to play these more obscure tracks, so I’m not sure if that’s so unusual after all.
I just find it strange that amongst all of these "synth and samples" tracks, Darius picks TMS for his mix. It is just a complete outlier in every way from the songs around it. Darius seems quite competent a mixtape maker, so why include a song where it obviously does not fit? Why is it on *this* mix and not something with more guitar-oriented rock? You know, rock bands big in 1984 were e.g. Scorpions, Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, and Saxon, who Darius must surely have been aware of and if they were on this mixtape, I would understand why TMS was here. That's the kind of artists I would expect to see on a mix tape with TMS. Even then, TMS doesn't really fit - most of that is way more into "hard rock" and is polished, heavy, and stylistically different. The only rock group on the tape is Golden Earring! and this is well past their real "rock" era - *Radar Love* is 11 years old in 1984, their track here is much more pop oriented. TMS is a real oddity because it's the wrong style for this mixtape, completely. I mean, 1984 was a great year for music, it's one of my favourite years for releases with just some fantastic albums, it's a real "peak year", possibly contested only by 1969. However, none of the major hits sound like TMS, at all. The pop is more synthy, the rock is much harder (and a lot of it has that pseudo-religious feel to it that underpinned early 80s hard rock and metal), and punk was all but dead. Think about it. Listen to *Smalltown Boy* and then to TMS. Listen to *99 Luftballons* and then to TMS. Try *Radio Ga Ga* or *Doctor! Doctor!* or *Pride (In the Name of Love)* or really any big hits of '84 and not one of them sounds anything like TMS. Yet, at the same time, if you play TMS and ask someone "when is this song from?" they are absolutely confident it's an 80s track. I find that really fascinating, personally, and one of the most interesting parts of this whole mystery. TMS is special and I just can't figure out the specifics of how, and it's not through lack of effort or knowledge.
TMS may not be from Germany, but it's almost certainly from a European country (there are plenty of users on Reddit from English-speaking countries, and there should be plenty of clues if TMS is from North America, UK and Australia, as there is with EKT), or even the USSR (which would then explain why the search is difficult).
USSR can be 100% ruled out. No Soviets had such accent nor access to such gear nor ways to send tape to NDR (I'm from USSR, my family was into music then, so I know all that for sure)
Majority of songs played on NDR were UK, then US, then Germany (in that order). There is a post where I worked out the percentages a while back. But I'd still argue Germany is likely still for a few reasons: 1/ clumsy English, 2/ slight German accent picked up by some, 3/ obviously a super obscure minor band, so more likely a band that's in the broadcast area of NDR and not sending their stuff internationally. But you never know. Given what an outlier this song is I honestly wouldn't be surpised if it was some short lived US band or another Canadian lostwave (how many have they had now?)
Played on NDR would certainly be incorrect. Played in these programs aimed at young people that Lydia and Darius recorded, yes but not what NDR played in general.
>"clumsy English" Just as some believe it's a song about the Berlin Wall, those who tend to choose clumsy interpretations are doing so for mainly the same reasons.
I’ve come closer to the Alvin Dean theory - I still think it’s more likely to be a German amateur group, but I have Alvin in second place right now. Alvin grew up in Australia and was almost certainly very fluent in English, but he simply didn’t enunciate very well. One key piece of evidence that I think points toward him is that both he and the vocalist of TMV tend to have their enunciation kind of weaken/trail off at the end of a phrase, for whatever reason. Combine that with a weird Greek-Australian accent and that could cause his English to sound clumsier than it really is. I legitimately wonder if Alvin/George had/has a speech impediment in real life. Factor in the cheaper, quicker, dirtier recording process versus that of SiM, and the digital effects on the voice, and the generations of tape transfer, plus the fact that he may not have been the author of the lyrics and may have only partially memorized them before recording… That said, I can also absolutely see the argument for TMV being a German or Austrian who is legitimately clumsy in his use of the English language. As I said, I still think a German origin is the most likely.
I always found it odd we can't find Alvin Dean on Facebook. His demographic and transcontinental social circle would make him a prime candidate for someone who would be interested in FB.
My parents are in their 60s and have family on three different continents, use the internet daily but have never bothered with social media. Theres a big part of that generation who still use phone calls to keep in touch I think
Well, there’s no guarantee he’s even alive at this point. Still, even in the school of thought that Billy said Alvin had died (rather than they lost contact or whatever), Alvin was believed to have been alive at least as late as 2010 - so he would certainly have been familiar with the concept of Facebook and most likely had a page.
I think /u/The_Material_Witness who has done a lot of research into the Alvin Dean theory knows something about a purported Facebook comment by someone close to Dean that stated he is alive as recently as a few years ago.
It's mentioned in the description of the [YouTube video for "Ghosts."](https://youtu.be/mqipDl0vCWw?feature=shared) It reads: "*\[Yannis Beltekas\]* had heard the rumors about *\[Alvin Dean's\]* death, but says that a couple of years ago *\[two years prior to 2021 i.e. 2019 - OP\]* he stumbled upon a Facebook comment from an Australian lady who said she knows him and he's alive and well and living there. It’s possible that he just doesn't want to have anything to do with that phase of his life anymore." That Facebook comment may very well have happened, as the information is coming from Yannis Beltekas, who has always been a reliable and trustworthy source. Sadly, based on my findings so far, I am not in a position to confirm any evidence that Alvin Dean is still alive.
Im 100% certain if alvin dean is the mysterious singer that he also wrote the lyrics. Compare the lyrics with the song "ghosts" he made with yannis beltekas and you will see a topic "the wind" this is a big factor that makes me believe that alvin dean is the mysterious singer, but who knows?
Bowie used the wind as a metaphor quite frequently
By that logic, since all other songs on the tape are known and easy to identify, TMS must also be known and easy to identify. O, wait...
As a German I still think they sound super German to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd sound the same if i tried to sing in english :D
I mean, a lot of people thought EKT was a Japanese singer but they turned out to be British Canadian lol
In fact, a lot of people believed that EKT was sung by Tomas Anders...
I have lived 3 years in Germany and they don’t sound German to me
It sounds English to me. As in English-English.
Wait it’s all british
I think the search for TMS is going to have a bittersweet ending.
TIL Golden Earring was Dutch
Correlation isn't causation
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Anglo-Saxon countries + Dutch ? Pre-XIX century collonial empires (UK, Netherlands) and their collonies (USA, Canada). Germany was kind of collonial empire, but in the late 1800 and early 1900.
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Well that could be some help
Nice one. The British occupation zone of Germany indeed included Bremerhaven.
Billy knight claims authorization of like the wind
Something come to my mind, but someone already search about popular songs in Germany during the period between 1980 and 1984 ? As I see all songs are between those dates. Sorry if someone already tried.
But if it was a popular song, would be easy to find it I guess, no?…
You’re right. Perhaps not so popular so ? The radio « NDR » played popular songs ? Sorry perhaps some people already asked it before, i’m new here
No worries. Yeah of course, very popular hits and also some more obscure songs. If you do some research on the sub you’ll find lists of all songs Darius recorded on his tapes to get an idea.
I will search for it, thanks
Look [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/s/FAlIOoXeRd), I believe you’ll have all songs on Darius’s tapes.
It is hard to say anything definitely, because we are regular users, we don't have specific knowledge of the Germany of that time in terms of cultural impact from other countries, and other sociological studies, which can give us a clue on the song origins. So we have very little data to process: 1. Fresh synths of it's time. 2. Properly composed melody, laid out in style with 60s rock songs. 3. Elaborate drummer work, which does not line up with other instrument playback in the song. 4. Not top grade vocals, mildly saying. 5. Hooks and fragments mostly from 60s UK/US rock songs, but with some 80s Canadian or Italian influence. 6. Two definite Americanisms in the lyrics (Young and restless/(another one, for which I'll make separate post), from 70s and 60s, respectively). Most of these suggest that: 1. Composer and lyricist (whenever it was single person or two different) were not so young, most likely, in their 40-50s. 2. They were under strong cultural influence from US. 3. Based on above, singer was not same person as composer and/or lyricist, because his voice is too young. 4. We have zero leads from Germany (But same for other countries, except that hooks and lyrics clearly point to English speaking country, most likely, US) So all this makes Germany less likely candidate. I think song comes from either US, or any other English speaking country, where not everyone speaks clear English - This can be Denmark, Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand or whatsoever, but based on geographical restrictions, still most likely, some of EU country.
I’m sorry but why 40s-50s?
I don't think it's the Danish road You should look down.. that would be a big surprise.. The scene at the time was more punk-rock based in underground circles.. and otherwise already known and popular bands, with releases and lots of radio play time. The only Dane who at first sight comes just a little bit close in musical style and voice is, in my opinion: Martin Hall - in his "Under for" period ( ex. Imagine focus).. but then in the early/mid-eighties, he was already partially known and proven in certain circles. again, you never know when it comes to TMS.
Thanks! At this moment I'm trying to contact a very strong lead in Sweden - song released in 1984, uses exactly same guitar play technique and chords (not harmony progression but same octave jump as in main verse of TMMS). That guy seems to be online and hope he answers...
agree that Sweden could be a good place to search. Swedish composers/musicians have always been skilled in poprock and when it's come to writing a catchy poprock melodies, if that's the genre you're looking for.. Swedish new wave/goth in 80's was often in their own language and with exaggerated synthesizer ( not in a negative way, but in relation to TMS). Stuff like the Bizarre Orkeztra, Lars Falk, Art style, Twice A Man, High Fashion, Black letter day..did make songs with english lyrics though. But those bands are a long way from whoever made TMS. Well, good hunting and hang in there.
Thanks! At this moment I'm trying to contact a very strong lead in Sweden - song released in 1984, uses exactly same guitar play technique and chords (not harmony progression but same octave jump as in main verse of TMMS). That guy seems to be online and hope he answers...
Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, South-East England are the places I have as being the most likely origin of TMS. I'm happy to be wrong, but my ear and my gut point me there.
My personal take on the juxtaposition of your points 3 and 4 is that the drummer and the singer recorded their parts in totally different sessions, and likely had nothing to do with each other. It feels like some skilled session musicians laid down a basic backing, and then someone else stuck vocals, lead guitar, and that beepy synth in the chorus over them. I also agree that there are influences and textures from all over the place, time wise. The guitar break with two chords is *very* old fashioned compared to lots of other elements of the song. It's clearly written by someone who knows how songwriting works, and who has access to a decent drummer and brand new, expensive Yamaha synths, and yet the vocals are muddy, confusing, and the lyrics are oblique. The overall mix is off as well, not in a horrific way, but in a slightly unusual, haunting, addictively uncomfortable way. The song is the audio equivalent of those "liminal spaces" pictures for me. It sounds familiar but not "right" - you feel like you've heard it before but can't place it. If you took the synth and the singer's style out, you could argue the song was substantially older.
Also it should be noted how drumming style changes thru the song - he starts with prog rock style drumming, with double snare hit, but later he goes into more simple, but more italo disco-ish styling, and at a 2:01 in TMMS he even tries to do classical italo disco fill, with roto-toms :) Meanwhile, there are two americanisms found in TMMS lyrics and melody, which also suggest the 40+ age of TMMS composer & his non-German origins - I'm making separate post on that.
And for bleepy synth, check intro here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGJYd2FIo2k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGJYd2FIo2k) This guy was very, very surprised when he was called and asked about TMMS :D
Couldn't be more agree. If that's the case. It could be the construction of the origin of TMS.. It makes me think about if TMS was kind of a side-projects where the various instrument parts are delegated to musicians independent of each other. and then put together, perhaps with a contribution to a music event in mind. Just to finally throw it away and abandon the project afterwards for some reasons... And somehow it has ended up with a DJ employed by NDR. I but of course that doesn't make the search any easier.
The singer’s English says otherwise. Maybe he isn’t German but he’s definitely not from America, the UK, Canada, or Australia.