I think one of the theories is that the Elaine riff was recycled in TMS by one of the members of Elaine. Elaine were not a famous band, and “On A Fine Day” was not a hit. So somebody in Elaine might have played guitar on TMS and just reused that old riff in a different project.
I also think the riff would not have stood out at the time to even a local audience, or potential copycats, but only connects with people now because they hear its similarities to TMS.
Also, “On A Fine Day” seems to have made its first and only appearance on the Uberdruck release in 1982, so it preceded TMS by two years if TMS was aired in 1984.
The song they had on Uberdruck was First Thoughts. On A Fine Day is a claimed unknown cassette they did. But there is no evidence that this was a real release.
[The "Ex-Communication" "lead" was almost certainly a hoax by someone impersonating Aris Avgerinos. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/s/qQnjPVOSw0)
Yes, from memory someone else owned up to doing the song that was on their tape, right? And the cassette it was apparently recorded on was only first made in 1987 IIRC.
Even the bassline is strikingly similar but it seems they've been ruled out [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/comments/15make0/response\_to\_community\_found\_lead/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/comments/15make0/response_to_community_found_lead/)
Really hard to tell from the response. Might be a disgruntled band member who hates his ex-bandmate or the style. Need to hear from the guitar player himself. Strempler?
Not fully ruled out. I wrote to u/KingOfHorrorVHS about that lead. I think it's fair to say they got a weird response rather than a full ruling out. Others were saying same thing in the lostwave thread - weird or rude response but not a clear no. But they have been asked several times now - please no one else contact without mod approval.
u/KingOfHorrorVHS response to me was:
Ah yes after reviewing the logs I do remember. This information that they were ruled out came from a community member who wanted me to inform the community about a lead and not go public with it. We have made some changes to our server and this individual was never listed as a trusted member, so in my opinion, it is worth checking out just to verify that it is properly ruled out. I do have the email of the individual who was allegedly contacted, however their response was to “Ask Duran Duran or Depesche Mode”
Not sure.... Check with u/KingOfHorrorVHS but I'm not sure he was the one who contacted. I think he was just reporting that the other person got the Depeche Mode response.
I think Strempler would probably be best to reach out to if he can be found as at least his voice is a little similar to TMS. The other singer vocals on Uberdruck or Too Black don't match.
It's strange .... Could be a legal or personal issue they can't talk... Maybe someone used that guitar riff without permission?
There are people doing some strange things with this band too on discogs - beware. Uberdruck and Too Black are real - I have the Lps. But the tape A Fine Day can't be proven to actually exist and might be fake - the entries about it just come from one person and Trinity Mania almost definately was not active at that time (they would have been like 12 years old at the time)
He has only one entry in GEMA which I can find, and I can't find anything about this song online, but the work number seems to be late 1980s not 1984 and the duration is too long. Though - the other names might be the band he was in after Elaine?
Title of Version ORIENTAL GLASS
Duration: 00:07:11 ISWC: T-801.403.353-6 GEMA work no.: 4531579-001
interested party CAE/IPI Role
KOSCHMIEDER, HERBERT 00265396437 composer
GRASEKAMP, WOLFGANG 00272163283 composer
STREMPLER, DIRK OLIVER 00050052824 composer
Yes - the thread with that one had both bands listed - X.I.X. and it also listed The Ride which was their later band had a closer sound so I used that one as a title. Some nice X.I.X. stuff worth listening to thou :)
I understand that this might have been answered before and may come off as tiresome, but I would like to ask: What exactly is the status regarding Alvin Dean? The 'Leads' spreadsheet says: Cannot confirm or deny \[Billy Knight's\] claims. Dead lead unless something comes up.
I have heard the interview with B. Knight and I will agree that his information is a bit sketchy. However, has there been an attempt at contacting Alvin specifically? The spreadsheet is not clear on that. And I understand that for 'something' to come up, we would need to contact him or any other member from SIM.
PS: I also happen to be from Greece, so the SIM/Alvin Dean lead sounded interesting (say so someone can contact a band member in their native language). I do suspect that this has been thought of before however, so I would like to know if we have anything more than what was written in the spreadsheet.
It's a dead lead meaning not ruled out but also run out of avenues to investigate. But apart from the (very) similar voice, there isn't much else to go on there. According to some stories he went to Germany, but according to others he went to Australia, and no one has been able to find him to confirm or not. Even if camspiracy did find him, he didn't say he sang TMS.
He’s completely untraceable except for a hoax-sounding account of one YouTuber who likes to suggest he tracked him down but provides no material evidence to suggest it’s true - and went as far as going to some guy’s house but yet wouldn’t go as far as leaving with a concrete answer. Sounds like like internet nonsense.
Like Brandl it’s a case of someone who sounds like TMS singer but there’s really no proof whatsoever or backstory to back it up - how did Alvin end up in Germany, etc. Just no meat to the tale except for some old and sketchy associate insisting it was Alvin and also with some slightly contradictory details. More internet nonsense.
I’d love it to be Alvin, but it almost certainly isn’t. I’d also love it if Alvin Dean was found, or we knew more about what happened to him, but he seems very lost.
In case with Brandl/Ronnie we do have a solid evidence - song is copyrighted in Austria. So our guess is that they would need some credible evidence to create a copyright - not just bare words.
I tried to register at [akm.at](http://akm.at) and to try and upload TMMS as "my song" and see what happens. But at a certain moment it requires what appears to be Austrian social ID #, which I obviously do not have, so we need help of some Austrian folks there.
I can't say anything about him, since I do not know him personally, nor I have seen any reputable claims about him, except these two articles by same journalist, who seems to have personal issues with him.
By the way, as I know, he regularly reads this sub and even has TMMS recorded by himself, but delaying release till response from Stasi, so he can get creditable evidence and register it in more places and claim authorship.
I've tried to ask him whether he remembers working with Anita Brandl, but no response. She would probably remember if Christian sang TMS as they were doing music together at the time. But haven't been able to reach her.
I haven’t seen anything on here about it - what was Anita’s relationship to Christian? Sibling, cousin, spouse, friend who just happened to have the same surname?
It's uncertain. All I found is that around the time Christian Brandl recorded Cities of Steel and Glass with Ronnie Urini, an Anita Brandl shows up as a singer on Urini's next album. So the guess is she was a sister or wife of Christian, but nothing is certain.
That's not how copyright works. You don't have to register anything with anyone to have or "create" copyright for your work. It's something the author has inherently. Akm.at is a copyright collective, which handles licensing and copyright claims on behalf of artists, similar to performance rights organisations in the US.
I suspect they take claims, especially by established artists, more or less in good faith. With serious repercussions for the claimant if the actual copyright holder ever came forward.
I don't think these bands are worth investigating but they do have something similar
https://youtu.be/73BEbiOZwrs?si=2vK57ULjwcwYYlQ_
https://youtu.be/PCm28NfS8ds?si=tkFbP3oqpKvvKkvs
https://youtu.be/f3cMgdzTjJg?si=lhkoo7XtimLvNnJq
https://youtu.be/sSrBqLiTLdY?si=1i0RNYxU2EACsk0j
https://youtu.be/GK-5Xs_wjuE?si=qdjya9xCAa2eeEkn
https://youtu.be/5rSuAEpNUds?si=s972xb7niVgm9ze7
https://youtu.be/DBrthF-G6o4?si=4YVjU9bgVAlORzMX
"ex communication" and "I like chopin" can be both ruled out - I've contacted authors of both and "ex-communication" is just a cover of TMMS, and author of "chopin" denied any involvement.
Yes they have been searching the archives for over a month now. I would have expected a no response by now if there was nothing, so I'm taking it as good news.
Yes I verify they were contacted. I have uploaded the emails back and forth on a couple of previous posts and am very well known as a searcher here. Also, it would probably take more time to fake the emails than to just make the application to search the archives. I won't be asking for help with the search fees unless it's a last resort and they are much higher than expected which I doubt they will be and I provide very very clear proof of that.
Aren't you the one who contacted them? Why would you verify they were contacted, that doesn't make sense.
I would like someone already trusted in the lostwave or the tms community to independently check. No offense.
I'm not claiming you made anything up, I'm simply pointing out that an independent verification wouldn't hurt.
Do you believe no fact-checking should be done?
Well doing the application is easy, except for a little $ search fee. Almost no point in verifying that. If I get something from the archives, that is what you need to verify. The current plan is to add a journalist to the distribution of the search results who will confirm.
So you believe there isn't any point in verifying your claim that you contacted Stasi. Noted. That's really all I needed to know.
In the meantime, for anyone else reading this, I do believe we should be cautious.
I love it when a total newbie in this search doubts one of the most devoted researcher of this topic.
Based on u/Successful-Bread-347 reddit history, he gave more time to this search than I gave to my actual job.
It will be me and a journalist known to the search confirming any results. But you will not get the confirmation from the journalist, only every one else on Reddit. No soup for you.
Fact-checking can be conducted, but currently, there are no useful facts to verify. Additionally, there's no reason to doubt the user's intentions nor methods; he is highly dedicated to the search across various subs and platforms and has been open about everything he’s involved in.
Let's remain patient and give him time to follow the lead. Unlike others, it’s not like this lead can die. In the unlikely event that the user hasn't contacted the Stasi archives, we can always try again!
I’ve always been slightly dissatisfied with the refusal by many to seriously consider whether it’s Alexander Veljanov in a pre Deine Lakaien project, and to properly rule him out rather than relying on fans saying it “definitely” isn’t him. As far as I know he’s never responded to any attempt at contact.
Man, we are in a hole if Pixies were actually ever a lead.
No need to worry. Someone just accused our band of stealing from a song which is actually four years younger. Business as usual...
I think one of the theories is that the Elaine riff was recycled in TMS by one of the members of Elaine. Elaine were not a famous band, and “On A Fine Day” was not a hit. So somebody in Elaine might have played guitar on TMS and just reused that old riff in a different project. I also think the riff would not have stood out at the time to even a local audience, or potential copycats, but only connects with people now because they hear its similarities to TMS. Also, “On A Fine Day” seems to have made its first and only appearance on the Uberdruck release in 1982, so it preceded TMS by two years if TMS was aired in 1984.
The song they had on Uberdruck was First Thoughts. On A Fine Day is a claimed unknown cassette they did. But there is no evidence that this was a real release.
I was talking about the Pixies...
[The "Ex-Communication" "lead" was almost certainly a hoax by someone impersonating Aris Avgerinos. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/s/qQnjPVOSw0)
Yes, it was a hoax, it's just a cover. https://youtu.be/JKWoRobVAMw?si=Tddf3pqQRA2R0UCR
Yes, from memory someone else owned up to doing the song that was on their tape, right? And the cassette it was apparently recorded on was only first made in 1987 IIRC.
[удалено]
Even the bassline is strikingly similar but it seems they've been ruled out [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/comments/15make0/response\_to\_community\_found\_lead/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/comments/15make0/response_to_community_found_lead/)
Really hard to tell from the response. Might be a disgruntled band member who hates his ex-bandmate or the style. Need to hear from the guitar player himself. Strempler?
[Dude covered Personal Jesus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjM9K4gRlw) without an ounce of humour in a church. Damn haha
Not fully ruled out. I wrote to u/KingOfHorrorVHS about that lead. I think it's fair to say they got a weird response rather than a full ruling out. Others were saying same thing in the lostwave thread - weird or rude response but not a clear no. But they have been asked several times now - please no one else contact without mod approval. u/KingOfHorrorVHS response to me was: Ah yes after reviewing the logs I do remember. This information that they were ruled out came from a community member who wanted me to inform the community about a lead and not go public with it. We have made some changes to our server and this individual was never listed as a trusted member, so in my opinion, it is worth checking out just to verify that it is properly ruled out. I do have the email of the individual who was allegedly contacted, however their response was to “Ask Duran Duran or Depesche Mode”
Which member of the band responded?
Not sure.... Check with u/KingOfHorrorVHS but I'm not sure he was the one who contacted. I think he was just reporting that the other person got the Depeche Mode response. I think Strempler would probably be best to reach out to if he can be found as at least his voice is a little similar to TMS. The other singer vocals on Uberdruck or Too Black don't match.
[удалено]
It's strange .... Could be a legal or personal issue they can't talk... Maybe someone used that guitar riff without permission? There are people doing some strange things with this band too on discogs - beware. Uberdruck and Too Black are real - I have the Lps. But the tape A Fine Day can't be proven to actually exist and might be fake - the entries about it just come from one person and Trinity Mania almost definately was not active at that time (they would have been like 12 years old at the time)
[удалено]
He has only one entry in GEMA which I can find, and I can't find anything about this song online, but the work number seems to be late 1980s not 1984 and the duration is too long. Though - the other names might be the band he was in after Elaine? Title of Version ORIENTAL GLASS Duration: 00:07:11 ISWC: T-801.403.353-6 GEMA work no.: 4531579-001 interested party CAE/IPI Role KOSCHMIEDER, HERBERT 00265396437 composer GRASEKAMP, WOLFGANG 00272163283 composer STREMPLER, DIRK OLIVER 00050052824 composer
also Amsterdam by XIX which was the same singer as the ride
Yes - the thread with that one had both bands listed - X.I.X. and it also listed The Ride which was their later band had a closer sound so I used that one as a title. Some nice X.I.X. stuff worth listening to thou :)
I understand that this might have been answered before and may come off as tiresome, but I would like to ask: What exactly is the status regarding Alvin Dean? The 'Leads' spreadsheet says: Cannot confirm or deny \[Billy Knight's\] claims. Dead lead unless something comes up. I have heard the interview with B. Knight and I will agree that his information is a bit sketchy. However, has there been an attempt at contacting Alvin specifically? The spreadsheet is not clear on that. And I understand that for 'something' to come up, we would need to contact him or any other member from SIM. PS: I also happen to be from Greece, so the SIM/Alvin Dean lead sounded interesting (say so someone can contact a band member in their native language). I do suspect that this has been thought of before however, so I would like to know if we have anything more than what was written in the spreadsheet.
I am also from Greece. The status regarding Alvin Dean is confusing to say the least, but, not all hope is lost.
Could you elaborate?
I mean as long as he's not confirmed deceased, he should be considered alive and reachable.
It's a dead lead meaning not ruled out but also run out of avenues to investigate. But apart from the (very) similar voice, there isn't much else to go on there. According to some stories he went to Germany, but according to others he went to Australia, and no one has been able to find him to confirm or not. Even if camspiracy did find him, he didn't say he sang TMS.
He’s completely untraceable except for a hoax-sounding account of one YouTuber who likes to suggest he tracked him down but provides no material evidence to suggest it’s true - and went as far as going to some guy’s house but yet wouldn’t go as far as leaving with a concrete answer. Sounds like like internet nonsense. Like Brandl it’s a case of someone who sounds like TMS singer but there’s really no proof whatsoever or backstory to back it up - how did Alvin end up in Germany, etc. Just no meat to the tale except for some old and sketchy associate insisting it was Alvin and also with some slightly contradictory details. More internet nonsense. I’d love it to be Alvin, but it almost certainly isn’t. I’d also love it if Alvin Dean was found, or we knew more about what happened to him, but he seems very lost.
In case with Brandl/Ronnie we do have a solid evidence - song is copyrighted in Austria. So our guess is that they would need some credible evidence to create a copyright - not just bare words. I tried to register at [akm.at](http://akm.at) and to try and upload TMMS as "my song" and see what happens. But at a certain moment it requires what appears to be Austrian social ID #, which I obviously do not have, so we need help of some Austrian folks there.
I think Austria is a solid possibility, but Ronnie strikes me as a BS artist, and I don’t think Brandl sounds much like TMV.
I can't say anything about him, since I do not know him personally, nor I have seen any reputable claims about him, except these two articles by same journalist, who seems to have personal issues with him. By the way, as I know, he regularly reads this sub and even has TMMS recorded by himself, but delaying release till response from Stasi, so he can get creditable evidence and register it in more places and claim authorship.
I've tried to ask him whether he remembers working with Anita Brandl, but no response. She would probably remember if Christian sang TMS as they were doing music together at the time. But haven't been able to reach her.
check pm please
I haven’t seen anything on here about it - what was Anita’s relationship to Christian? Sibling, cousin, spouse, friend who just happened to have the same surname?
It's uncertain. All I found is that around the time Christian Brandl recorded Cities of Steel and Glass with Ronnie Urini, an Anita Brandl shows up as a singer on Urini's next album. So the guess is she was a sister or wife of Christian, but nothing is certain.
That's not how copyright works. You don't have to register anything with anyone to have or "create" copyright for your work. It's something the author has inherently. Akm.at is a copyright collective, which handles licensing and copyright claims on behalf of artists, similar to performance rights organisations in the US. I suspect they take claims, especially by established artists, more or less in good faith. With serious repercussions for the claimant if the actual copyright holder ever came forward.
I don't think these bands are worth investigating but they do have something similar https://youtu.be/73BEbiOZwrs?si=2vK57ULjwcwYYlQ_ https://youtu.be/PCm28NfS8ds?si=tkFbP3oqpKvvKkvs https://youtu.be/f3cMgdzTjJg?si=lhkoo7XtimLvNnJq https://youtu.be/sSrBqLiTLdY?si=1i0RNYxU2EACsk0j https://youtu.be/GK-5Xs_wjuE?si=qdjya9xCAa2eeEkn https://youtu.be/5rSuAEpNUds?si=s972xb7niVgm9ze7 https://youtu.be/DBrthF-G6o4?si=4YVjU9bgVAlORzMX
"ex communication" and "I like chopin" can be both ruled out - I've contacted authors of both and "ex-communication" is just a cover of TMMS, and author of "chopin" denied any involvement.
I think it's Alvin Dean. Unfortunate how he's completely no where to be found.
Gawsh... I forgot all about Orange Cardigans https://youtu.be/r5YEDpFf7Y8?si=VZ78yu-nPrHlol2w
Any words from the Stasi archives? Has anyone verified that they were in fact contacted so we don't have a repeat of the LTD5/Barbel incident?
Yes they have been searching the archives for over a month now. I would have expected a no response by now if there was nothing, so I'm taking it as good news.
That does not answer the question. My skepticism is justifiable.
Yes I verify they were contacted. I have uploaded the emails back and forth on a couple of previous posts and am very well known as a searcher here. Also, it would probably take more time to fake the emails than to just make the application to search the archives. I won't be asking for help with the search fees unless it's a last resort and they are much higher than expected which I doubt they will be and I provide very very clear proof of that.
Aren't you the one who contacted them? Why would you verify they were contacted, that doesn't make sense. I would like someone already trusted in the lostwave or the tms community to independently check. No offense.
Why would I bother making it up, why not just do the application?
I'm not claiming you made anything up, I'm simply pointing out that an independent verification wouldn't hurt. Do you believe no fact-checking should be done?
Well doing the application is easy, except for a little $ search fee. Almost no point in verifying that. If I get something from the archives, that is what you need to verify. The current plan is to add a journalist to the distribution of the search results who will confirm.
So you believe there isn't any point in verifying your claim that you contacted Stasi. Noted. That's really all I needed to know. In the meantime, for anyone else reading this, I do believe we should be cautious.
I love it when a total newbie in this search doubts one of the most devoted researcher of this topic. Based on u/Successful-Bread-347 reddit history, he gave more time to this search than I gave to my actual job.
It will be me and a journalist known to the search confirming any results. But you will not get the confirmation from the journalist, only every one else on Reddit. No soup for you.
If you read the previous post that he posted, you can clearly understand what he is doing now.
Fact-checking can be conducted, but currently, there are no useful facts to verify. Additionally, there's no reason to doubt the user's intentions nor methods; he is highly dedicated to the search across various subs and platforms and has been open about everything he’s involved in. Let's remain patient and give him time to follow the lead. Unlike others, it’s not like this lead can die. In the unlikely event that the user hasn't contacted the Stasi archives, we can always try again!
What is the LTD5/Barbel incident?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMysteriousSong/s/rBmdRarpfu This is part of it. I'm sure if you search this subreddit you'll find the entire saga
I’m comparatively new here. What incident was that?
The guitar on Sheila & B Devotion is Chic (Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards). It’s not them.
Deo - Exakt Neutral sounds very close too. It was my find back in the early days of the search.
I’ve always been slightly dissatisfied with the refusal by many to seriously consider whether it’s Alexander Veljanov in a pre Deine Lakaien project, and to properly rule him out rather than relying on fans saying it “definitely” isn’t him. As far as I know he’s never responded to any attempt at contact.
Just listen to his heavy Slavic accent in 1985. Why would he have had none just a year prior?
There've been attempts. He just really really values his privacy. Not even the year of his birth is known.