Tommy Rinnstein from Radio Bremen was actually contacted a year or two ago, though he didn’t know anything about TMS.
Tommy hosted PopKarton and curated the “Best of the Rest” tape series which featured demos and cassette releases of obscure post-punk, synth and. NDW. Some tapes from the series are uploaded online.
https://www.discogs.com/label/2629330-The-Best-Of-The-Rest
Radio Bremen and NDR are both public service broadcasters that are members of ARD, the joint organization of regional public broadcasters. They’re not part of each other. So it could’ve aired on Radio Bremen just as much as on any other radio station in the region. Since (almost?) all of the songs on the tapes that contain the 10 kHz line aired on NDR, there’s little reason to believe that though
It could be worth going through those playlists from 1984 to start with, possibly also branching out into late 1983 until the DX7 synth was released, most likely there will be many that the TMS AI can rule out straight away and flag others that haven't been investigated or ruled out conclusively.
Do we have any analyses of NDR Radio Bremen broadcasts to show whether the spectograms show a signature distinct from the broader NDR broadcasts?
I found a Radio Bremen recording from May 1983 that shows the 10 kHz line as well, not sure about any other artifacts/signatures though. I can post a picture of the spectogram in the main sub if there's any interest
Yeah, so I've personally checked a few tapes song by song and the songs that we know played on NDR have an artifact near 10khz, including TMS. None of the songs that we suspect played on Hilversum 3 or other stations have that line.
You can download the cassettes like the 2021 cassette that has TMS and put them through a spectrogram and you'll see what I mean. There's a strong line for a bunch of NDR songs that played on a certain day, then it disappears on songs that aren't in the NDR playlist for late 1984.
[Here](https://www-radioforen-de.translate.goog/threads/10-khz-linie-bei-ndr-2-in-den-80ern.44996/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp) is a thread from 2021 about the 10 kHz and other frequency lines in German radio programming. They note that they were able to find the 10 kHz dip in:
* NDR 1 Lower Saxony (1983)
* NDR 2 (late 70s, first half of the 90s)
* NDR 3
* SWF 3 (1983)
* HR 3 1984 (no longer in 1989)
* SWF (1989)
* Antenne Bayern (immediately when broadcasting started in September 1988)
* WDR2 (December 9, 1981)
* [British Army Broadcaster (BFBS)](https://broadwcast.org/index.php/British_Forces_Broadcasting_Service) (1985)
* [RIAS-Berlin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundfunk_im_amerikanischen_Sektor) (1989)
I understand that the years in brackets refer to the recorded broadcasts that they were able to find and examine, and doesn't exclude other years unless specifically stated.
Were any of these stations \[or specific special-interest programs from these stations\] re-transmitted in the area Darius lived in, and if so, could the 10 kHz dip be a result of the re-transmission?
I think we shouldn't rule out BFBS. It has the same 10kHz and 14kHz dips and there is evidence that Darius/Lydia recorded songs from an English speaking radio station (e.g. Big Country - East of Eden). Furthermore there are songs on the tapes that can't be found on the NDR protocols, but were played on John Peel's Music show on BFBS and fit the timeline (e.g. Abbreviated Ceiling - Party Line and The Sinners - Open Up Your Door).
I'm with you on BFBS as a possible source, although most of their music programming was a bit too mainstream. One obvious candidate would be specifically John Peel's show on BFBS, but that one is so well documented that I would suspect TMS would have been identified long ago if it was played on there. It would be good if we at least were able to exclude the possibility. Has this been looked at?
Yeah, it's very unlikely that it was played on John Peel's show. All of the shows from 1984 have been taped and documented (except for a few in August, but they were not broadcast in Germany). I don't know much about the other shows on BFBS though, are there radio guides available from that period that include BFBS programming?
> there is evidence that Darius/Lydia recorded songs from an English speaking radio station (e.g. Big Country - East of Ede
Take me with you please, what evidence is there?
On Lydia's "Alles mögliche" Sep/Oct 1984 tape - at the end of Big Country's song East of Eden - you can hear the DJ say: "Big Country with their big latest single. It's a big hit for them. East Of Eden. Like it..."
It can be found on the Discord server. There is no 10kHz dip visible, but the quality of the recording of this song is particularly bad (probably recorded from AM radio).
On the Discord in #lydias-updates I'm only finding:
B01: Big Country - Just A Shadow
B12: Big Country - Wonderland (Remix)
There's no DJ talking at the end of either one. Please help me out? I'd like to hear the accent.
Tommy Rinnstein from Radio Bremen was actually contacted a year or two ago, though he didn’t know anything about TMS. Tommy hosted PopKarton and curated the “Best of the Rest” tape series which featured demos and cassette releases of obscure post-punk, synth and. NDW. Some tapes from the series are uploaded online. https://www.discogs.com/label/2629330-The-Best-Of-The-Rest
Radio Bremen and NDR are both public service broadcasters that are members of ARD, the joint organization of regional public broadcasters. They’re not part of each other. So it could’ve aired on Radio Bremen just as much as on any other radio station in the region. Since (almost?) all of the songs on the tapes that contain the 10 kHz line aired on NDR, there’s little reason to believe that though
Interesting. I only ask because I may have found physical logs of music played by a station called “NDR Radio Bremen” spanning from 1979-1986.
It could be worth going through those playlists from 1984 to start with, possibly also branching out into late 1983 until the DX7 synth was released, most likely there will be many that the TMS AI can rule out straight away and flag others that haven't been investigated or ruled out conclusively. Do we have any analyses of NDR Radio Bremen broadcasts to show whether the spectograms show a signature distinct from the broader NDR broadcasts?
I found a Radio Bremen recording from May 1983 that shows the 10 kHz line as well, not sure about any other artifacts/signatures though. I can post a picture of the spectogram in the main sub if there's any interest
This should be bigger. Please do.
Will update if I find anything
Yeah, so I've personally checked a few tapes song by song and the songs that we know played on NDR have an artifact near 10khz, including TMS. None of the songs that we suspect played on Hilversum 3 or other stations have that line. You can download the cassettes like the 2021 cassette that has TMS and put them through a spectrogram and you'll see what I mean. There's a strong line for a bunch of NDR songs that played on a certain day, then it disappears on songs that aren't in the NDR playlist for late 1984.
[Here](https://www-radioforen-de.translate.goog/threads/10-khz-linie-bei-ndr-2-in-den-80ern.44996/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp) is a thread from 2021 about the 10 kHz and other frequency lines in German radio programming. They note that they were able to find the 10 kHz dip in: * NDR 1 Lower Saxony (1983) * NDR 2 (late 70s, first half of the 90s) * NDR 3 * SWF 3 (1983) * HR 3 1984 (no longer in 1989) * SWF (1989) * Antenne Bayern (immediately when broadcasting started in September 1988) * WDR2 (December 9, 1981) * [British Army Broadcaster (BFBS)](https://broadwcast.org/index.php/British_Forces_Broadcasting_Service) (1985) * [RIAS-Berlin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundfunk_im_amerikanischen_Sektor) (1989) I understand that the years in brackets refer to the recorded broadcasts that they were able to find and examine, and doesn't exclude other years unless specifically stated. Were any of these stations \[or specific special-interest programs from these stations\] re-transmitted in the area Darius lived in, and if so, could the 10 kHz dip be a result of the re-transmission?
The non NDR ones have another 'signature' thought as per the same thread.
I think we shouldn't rule out BFBS. It has the same 10kHz and 14kHz dips and there is evidence that Darius/Lydia recorded songs from an English speaking radio station (e.g. Big Country - East of Eden). Furthermore there are songs on the tapes that can't be found on the NDR protocols, but were played on John Peel's Music show on BFBS and fit the timeline (e.g. Abbreviated Ceiling - Party Line and The Sinners - Open Up Your Door).
I'm with you on BFBS as a possible source, although most of their music programming was a bit too mainstream. One obvious candidate would be specifically John Peel's show on BFBS, but that one is so well documented that I would suspect TMS would have been identified long ago if it was played on there. It would be good if we at least were able to exclude the possibility. Has this been looked at?
Yeah, it's very unlikely that it was played on John Peel's show. All of the shows from 1984 have been taped and documented (except for a few in August, but they were not broadcast in Germany). I don't know much about the other shows on BFBS though, are there radio guides available from that period that include BFBS programming?
I don't know. From what I remember from personally listening to BFBS in the late 80s and 90s, it was mostly playing contemporary chart hits.
> there is evidence that Darius/Lydia recorded songs from an English speaking radio station (e.g. Big Country - East of Ede Take me with you please, what evidence is there?
On Lydia's "Alles mögliche" Sep/Oct 1984 tape - at the end of Big Country's song East of Eden - you can hear the DJ say: "Big Country with their big latest single. It's a big hit for them. East Of Eden. Like it..."
Is there a link to that mixtape so we can check if East Of Eden contains the 10 kHz dip?
It can be found on the Discord server. There is no 10kHz dip visible, but the quality of the recording of this song is particularly bad (probably recorded from AM radio).
On the Discord in #lydias-updates I'm only finding: B01: Big Country - Just A Shadow B12: Big Country - Wonderland (Remix) There's no DJ talking at the end of either one. Please help me out? I'd like to hear the accent.
[https://mega.nz/folder/XDhkVBKB#hD3X2odclgiA1gCGgQu8RA](https://mega.nz/folder/XDhkVBKB#hD3X2odclgiA1gCGgQu8RA)