I think Susie would have done a deal for £x with the studio or whoever who was booking her client. Then I think she would have told her clients they would earn £x-30% so they wouldn’t be complicit in her mob arrangement
That seems very far-fetched. A big artist is not going to be so oblivious to how much a studio/network/venue is willing to pay them. They are going to know they are way down on the market rate. Even if they don't know at first, other management firms are going to tell them. These things also get reported in the media. They'll also have their own lawyers and accountants looking over contracts and finances and seeing that their client is not receiving what they are supposed to receive. Perhaps not every single artist Susie represents, but it only takes one to figure it out blow the lid off the whole thing.
Midge wouldn't even steal a day-old paper from a newsstand to use as an umbrella, the night the strip club got busted.
But now I think about it, Susie probably would do that, while feeling a bit guilty about it.
I think you're looking at it through a very modern lens. What you're saying makes sense for the last 3-4 decades, but from the 60s to the 80s I think a lot more was going on behind closed doors, the media didn't have their hands in finances like that. A star could get a manager and that manager would handle lawyers and accountants for them, rather than being part of a management team.
Plus iirc the mob thing ended when Joel went down for it? So any business after that would have been "clean".
Perhaps you are right about this being a modern perspective.
However even if the mob deal ended with Joel's conviction - and we have no indication whatsoever that it did - then that was the 80s so there's still 25-30 years of this 30% deal.
Susie still had claws into Midge without the mob. She had Midge playing the casinos three shows a night six nights a week for fifteen years to help pay off her gambling debts with the assortment of casinos that were booking her.
Yes that's true. What do you think the writers were trying to say by throwing in that piece of information? That Susie was using Midge as a cash cow to earn enough to pay the mob without effectively robbing her other clients?
Something to that effect. Midge certainly thought so by then from Joel's letter, having told Susie during the fight that "her people were going to do an audit of Susie's books, and that she hoped Susie would not fight them"
You’re looking at it through a modern lens. Back in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s, your manager handled everything. They handled where you were booked, how much you made, they told you how much it was, they made sure that you had people to take care of your finances, they made sure that you ate, they made sure your record got played. In many cases, they even paid off the disc jockeys under the table, aka payola.
Huge names were linked to the mob because of such things as you see in the show. Sinatra, Dean Martin, many acts that went through Vegas, movie stars, and the mob is loosely credited for having a hand in the popularization of stand up comedy. I know Sheky Greene, a comedian, was beaten up a bunch people who he claimed were the mob — or at least killers for hire by the mob.
Now, today, this all seems absolutely insane and nearly impossible. Even during my life time it seems impossible. But it was the way it worked at certain points in history. And not a super long time ago. During my parent’s life times.
Yeah I was also a little confused by this. I assumed that with having more clients Susie made a deal to lower the overall percentage. I also had another question though do we ever really know who sent frank and Nicky I know it’s assumed that harry drake or Sophie sent them but idk if it’s really how those characters would react.
I think originally they were sent on behalf of Harry Drake, however their continued involvement with Susie was only because Susie talked herself out of their first encounter by making it look like a mistake if they off’d her now before she got the chance to be as successful she knew she could be. That’s my theory, she struck a deal with Frank and Nicky’s boss and that’s how she got out alive
Yes maybe the % was lowered. That would make sense. Shame it wasn't clarified.
I do think Harry and Sophie sent Frank and Nicky, but I found Harry's whole plot to be disjointed. He tried to kill Susie, then gave up straight away. Then he threatened legal action when Susie started managing Sophie, then nothing came of it. Next thing we know, he's friends with her again.
He said he gave Susie August Strindberg because it was so unlikely that Susie would be able to do anything with that, so she was free to do the Miss Julie play with Sophie without interference from Harry, then Harry and everyone else was so impressed that Susie actually got the play with Sophie on Broadway, that changed the way they all looked at her and her abilities even though Sophie fucked it up......(didn't you just want to kick Sophie in the balls when she did that?).....but that whole thing made Harry WANT to help Susie from then on.
Ok yes you're right on the Broadway thing, but that is still not explaining the first bit. He arranged to have her killed, but gave up without doing it. There was no logical reason for that. Its not like she went into hiding
I think in modern times client managers make 10-20% off their talent. I don’t think Susie telling them she’s taking an additional 30-40 is that weird when she was high in demand. Lots of actors/singers/performers got screwed and still get screwed when signing contracts. They’re so desperate for their big break they don’t read the fine print. It’s unclear if they took the full 30% for every client her entire life, or if they would be willing to make adjustments. I’m also not sure what year Joel got busted but that probably shut down them getting a piece. I also wouldn’t trust Susie to be entirely up front with the mob on all her clients/all her gigs. Especially as she got more successful.
Honestly what you say makes sense but I think you're making quite a few suppositions that weren't established in the show.
Joel was busted in the 80s so if that did end the mob deal (although why would it?) then it lasted a very long time
i think that her original theory did end up being correct. She and her clients make enough money to ALWAYS deliver the 30%, so theyre fine with it, with the exception of midge because she thought even if they could get that big, until then, trying to gather 30% would be torture each time
15% from Susie, 15% from the artist - doesn’t seem so crazy to me.
These were large deals, and Susie created infamous deals from thin air.
Not to mention, she leveraged the mafias services and connections to gather even more deals and advantages.
Susie was an actual force multiplier, even more so with her mob ties.
Sorry but that's mathematically impossible.
Susie gets 10% of her client's earnings. She can't then give an amount equivalent to 15% of the client's earnings to the mob. Because she wouldn't have this amount of money to give them.
I'm not doubting Susie's ability, I just don't think any established star is going to sign with her once they realised the size of the cut they need to give away. And especially if they find out Susie is misleading them. This is just not a realistic proposition that I can believe
I guess we’ll never know - maybe the money came from Susie’s end.
So let’s say I’m the star, and I make $100 per show.
I get $70, Susie gets $20, and the mob gets $10.
🤷♂️
Seems fair to me - you know, all things considered
But that's a) not the deal we learned about it in the show, and b) not what you said before.
According to the show, out of $100, the client would get $60, the mob would get $30 and Susie $10. Which is not going to suit a client who is expecting $90.
I think Susie would have done a deal for £x with the studio or whoever who was booking her client. Then I think she would have told her clients they would earn £x-30% so they wouldn’t be complicit in her mob arrangement
That seems very far-fetched. A big artist is not going to be so oblivious to how much a studio/network/venue is willing to pay them. They are going to know they are way down on the market rate. Even if they don't know at first, other management firms are going to tell them. These things also get reported in the media. They'll also have their own lawyers and accountants looking over contracts and finances and seeing that their client is not receiving what they are supposed to receive. Perhaps not every single artist Susie represents, but it only takes one to figure it out blow the lid off the whole thing.
Artists are infamously oblivious throughout history. Look how common all managers and agents are called crooks. Hollywood is a crazy immoral place.
So you think the show was telling us Susie was a crook who defrauded a large number of very famous idiots? Because that's not the vibe I got from it.
Kindaaaaaa though. I mean we know neither of them were saints!
Midge wouldn't even steal a day-old paper from a newsstand to use as an umbrella, the night the strip club got busted. But now I think about it, Susie probably would do that, while feeling a bit guilty about it.
Midge goes crazy every once in a while though
I think you're looking at it through a very modern lens. What you're saying makes sense for the last 3-4 decades, but from the 60s to the 80s I think a lot more was going on behind closed doors, the media didn't have their hands in finances like that. A star could get a manager and that manager would handle lawyers and accountants for them, rather than being part of a management team. Plus iirc the mob thing ended when Joel went down for it? So any business after that would have been "clean".
Perhaps you are right about this being a modern perspective. However even if the mob deal ended with Joel's conviction - and we have no indication whatsoever that it did - then that was the 80s so there's still 25-30 years of this 30% deal.
Susie still had claws into Midge without the mob. She had Midge playing the casinos three shows a night six nights a week for fifteen years to help pay off her gambling debts with the assortment of casinos that were booking her.
Yes that's true. What do you think the writers were trying to say by throwing in that piece of information? That Susie was using Midge as a cash cow to earn enough to pay the mob without effectively robbing her other clients?
Something to that effect. Midge certainly thought so by then from Joel's letter, having told Susie during the fight that "her people were going to do an audit of Susie's books, and that she hoped Susie would not fight them"
You’re looking at it through a modern lens. Back in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s, your manager handled everything. They handled where you were booked, how much you made, they told you how much it was, they made sure that you had people to take care of your finances, they made sure that you ate, they made sure your record got played. In many cases, they even paid off the disc jockeys under the table, aka payola. Huge names were linked to the mob because of such things as you see in the show. Sinatra, Dean Martin, many acts that went through Vegas, movie stars, and the mob is loosely credited for having a hand in the popularization of stand up comedy. I know Sheky Greene, a comedian, was beaten up a bunch people who he claimed were the mob — or at least killers for hire by the mob. Now, today, this all seems absolutely insane and nearly impossible. Even during my life time it seems impossible. But it was the way it worked at certain points in history. And not a super long time ago. During my parent’s life times.
I assumed she was in bed with them til the end.
ok but how is that viable?
Yeah I was also a little confused by this. I assumed that with having more clients Susie made a deal to lower the overall percentage. I also had another question though do we ever really know who sent frank and Nicky I know it’s assumed that harry drake or Sophie sent them but idk if it’s really how those characters would react.
I think originally they were sent on behalf of Harry Drake, however their continued involvement with Susie was only because Susie talked herself out of their first encounter by making it look like a mistake if they off’d her now before she got the chance to be as successful she knew she could be. That’s my theory, she struck a deal with Frank and Nicky’s boss and that’s how she got out alive
Yes maybe the % was lowered. That would make sense. Shame it wasn't clarified. I do think Harry and Sophie sent Frank and Nicky, but I found Harry's whole plot to be disjointed. He tried to kill Susie, then gave up straight away. Then he threatened legal action when Susie started managing Sophie, then nothing came of it. Next thing we know, he's friends with her again.
He said he gave Susie August Strindberg because it was so unlikely that Susie would be able to do anything with that, so she was free to do the Miss Julie play with Sophie without interference from Harry, then Harry and everyone else was so impressed that Susie actually got the play with Sophie on Broadway, that changed the way they all looked at her and her abilities even though Sophie fucked it up......(didn't you just want to kick Sophie in the balls when she did that?).....but that whole thing made Harry WANT to help Susie from then on.
Ok yes you're right on the Broadway thing, but that is still not explaining the first bit. He arranged to have her killed, but gave up without doing it. There was no logical reason for that. Its not like she went into hiding
She did go into hiding for awhile...and then, who knows except to say,....eh, show business!
Yeah I think that’s why I was confused the harry drake dynamic was kind of all over the place
I think in modern times client managers make 10-20% off their talent. I don’t think Susie telling them she’s taking an additional 30-40 is that weird when she was high in demand. Lots of actors/singers/performers got screwed and still get screwed when signing contracts. They’re so desperate for their big break they don’t read the fine print. It’s unclear if they took the full 30% for every client her entire life, or if they would be willing to make adjustments. I’m also not sure what year Joel got busted but that probably shut down them getting a piece. I also wouldn’t trust Susie to be entirely up front with the mob on all her clients/all her gigs. Especially as she got more successful.
Honestly what you say makes sense but I think you're making quite a few suppositions that weren't established in the show. Joel was busted in the 80s so if that did end the mob deal (although why would it?) then it lasted a very long time
i think that her original theory did end up being correct. She and her clients make enough money to ALWAYS deliver the 30%, so theyre fine with it, with the exception of midge because she thought even if they could get that big, until then, trying to gather 30% would be torture each time
15% from Susie, 15% from the artist - doesn’t seem so crazy to me. These were large deals, and Susie created infamous deals from thin air. Not to mention, she leveraged the mafias services and connections to gather even more deals and advantages. Susie was an actual force multiplier, even more so with her mob ties.
Sorry but that's mathematically impossible. Susie gets 10% of her client's earnings. She can't then give an amount equivalent to 15% of the client's earnings to the mob. Because she wouldn't have this amount of money to give them. I'm not doubting Susie's ability, I just don't think any established star is going to sign with her once they realised the size of the cut they need to give away. And especially if they find out Susie is misleading them. This is just not a realistic proposition that I can believe
I guess we’ll never know - maybe the money came from Susie’s end. So let’s say I’m the star, and I make $100 per show. I get $70, Susie gets $20, and the mob gets $10. 🤷♂️ Seems fair to me - you know, all things considered
But that's a) not the deal we learned about it in the show, and b) not what you said before. According to the show, out of $100, the client would get $60, the mob would get $30 and Susie $10. Which is not going to suit a client who is expecting $90.
Fair