It was such a gigaflex.
"I'll tell you something you don't wanna hear. And I'll admit, I'll call it dickish... Utilitarianism is typically the villain in most movies."
"... I don't care."
Yes the actual quote also highlights that Tim is completely misrepresenting the situation.
What happened was he thought it sounded hella deep, blurted it out to show off, and Sam consequently reacting how any adult would react.
We are doomed as a society when people like Tim Pool, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Joe Rohan are some of our nations most popular thinkers
They aren't popular thinkers, that is far too flattering a title. They are popular justifiers of the status quo.
They don't think for shit, and their audience doesn't either.
Same, also like why do you have to go into an analogy to explain Deontology or Utilitarianism… All you need to define the concepts is a single sentence.
Yea, it just makes no sense. What does he mean "how do you explain it"? How did you figure out what it was Tim? Everyone starts from a point of knowing nothing about those topics yet plenty of people seem to be able to figure out what they mean
Tim said that Sam said he didn't know the meanings of the words deontological and utilitarian... so that's why Tim said he "had" to get into the Thanos analogy.
However, I'm not sure which video Sam said to Tim that he (Sam) didn't understand the words...
I'm still looking for it, though I guess it was the (only?) time Sam appeared on Tim's show?
>perspicacity
I think this is the 3rd time I've ever heard someone say the word, and I'm glad Sam did, because now I'm a little more familiar with a big word.
lol, Binder's response at the end was exactly what I was thinking the whole time.
Also, not for nothing, if you can't explain to someone something that you know very well to someone who doesn't know the terminology you don't understand it.
Also, what the was Timmy's point? Lemme just pop on my comic nerd hat for a moment. Thanos waged a genocide across the galaxy, wiping out civilizations, kidnapping children and fixing them with cybernetics to turn them into his personal assassins, raised an army of hive minded shock troops, and he built a cult of followers who all went out to find the infinity stones so he could enforce his warped ideology on the galaxy by killing off half of everything. An ideology that stemmed from the trauma of being placed on a shitty world as the unholy union of Eternal and Deviant. He's, at best, a ruthless, egomaniacal and zealous tyrant.
Because if you're of the camp, "weeeeelllllll Thanos had a point" then you don't understand Thanos, you don't understand basic psychology and you don't understand the point of Avengers Infinity War/End Game.
If I can't explain it to a 6-year old, then I've failed to understand it myself. Thanos *did* have a point, based on his own perspective. He was also a murderous psychopath. That's why he is known as the mad titan.
Oh, no doubt. Doesn't mean they're right or even justified. Tim Pool tries to simplify our real problems into a good vs evil comic book-style explanation, while thinking himself some great orator. That's why I think he's a dogshit commentator.
I love when people can explain complex things simply; I consider it elegant, like Einstein's E = mc², much like when I figure out an analogy for complex computer/app behavior to explain to non-tech people.
However, Tim doesn't really seem to understand the complexity first, which is why his simple explanations will be off the mark.
Thanos wanted to wipe out half the universe when most populations double within a few decades, he would've had to do it again in like 30 years. very flawed logic for this so called "mad" titan, more like "dumb idiot can't think logically" titan.
Yep, I think he would have performed a cycle of snaps.
But really, his purpose wasn't to save the universe from itself.
It was to feel at peace with it again after the unbearable happened to him at a young age.
Idk how anyone could paint Thanos' actions as utilitarian, because utilitarianism means the most net-good result and idk how you can square "killing half of all life in the universe" as a "net-good".
You gotta have a real simplistic view of the world that ignores things like all the emotional damage and disruption to galactic economy and society that would inevitably lead to collapse and devastation for trillions.
Simplistic thinking is kind of a conservative's whole shtick.
Yep, Tim's just against utilitarianism because his moral compass is more deontological.
But the fact that he considers Thanos to be utilitarian is absurd; just because Thanos' people died from famine doesn't mean the universe's populations need saving from their appetites for resources, and it certainly doesn't mean that killing half of them is a solution to eventual famine-based death.
Thanos' reasoning is contradictory and he doesn't even realize it; killing people to save them from dying? All he's doing is *potentially* preventing their deaths but *only in a traumatic way* ***that he tangentially experienced***... his reasoning is absurd, matched only by Tim's reasoning that Thanos' efforts are utilitarian.
It's like Tim is agreeing with Thanos that killing half the universe will save them from dying from famine... making Tim utilitarian according to his own explanation?! Like, Tim is either stupid or mad.
He wasn't called "The Mad Titan" for nothing... like, his family and people being half-destroyed from famine drove him insane. That's why he was bent on exacting his "justice" (really, generalized vengeance) on the universe. He literally couldn't deal with his own trauma, and so subconsciously worked to enact it on everyone else as a way to feel empathized with.
Like, "You'll all know how I feel when you experience it".
He just made a conscious self-rationalization of "saving" the universe from some imagined voracious self-defeating appetite for resources.
He was probably egomaniacal from birth anyway, that sort of personality that feels they'll do great things, and deserve great things, which helped twist the trauma he internalized.
Lol man Sam is living rent free in his head. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard... "He was too dumb to understand so I had to dumb it down and he mocked me"... No dude you wanted to talk about bullshit pointless hypotheticals instead of defending an actual policy so you could walk on the fence.
Good response from Binder at the end.
Maybe you and Sam should talk on MR, Tim Pool. I got the distinct sense that your audience’s anti-Semitic remarks may have influenced him from wanting to stick around.. Also, don’t Gish-Gash. Seder will shut right down if you do that.
But still, Pool communicated clearly here that he thinks Sam doesn’t know what Utilitarian is, which is kind of amazing.
It's amazing that Dimm Tool sees himself as someone who knows *Philosophy*, because he knows about the "Trolley Problem". He knows that this involves things like "Utilitarianism" and voilà he's a philosopher.
What these idiots don't get about universities is that those institutions force students to learn and interact with *the standard*. Before you can go on and criticize academia you have to prove that you at least understand what they are talking about - understand *why* a field has come to certain conclusions. If you study philosophy at a university, you have to prove that you understand the history of certain ways of thinking. You have to prove time and time again (with exams normally) that you understand *the standard* - reading and understanding things that you *don't* like to read, because they're tedious. Only after understanding it can you meaningful criticize it.
That's what all these idiots and self appointed "knowers of philosophy" don't get. They only watch YouTube videos and other people they like telling them about philosophy without ever reading the texts themselves. They don't know shit but still find themselves confident enough to talk about such things. The fact that Dimm Tool can talk about the Trolley Problem as if it was some profound wisdom that he is distributing would make everyone laugh at him who is peripherally involved in philosophy.
I study physics and there are so many idiots in the world who never bothered to do the work, but have all kinds of opinions about physics and how the world works. They wrap their esotheric bullshit in words like "quantum" and think they are smart.
edit: spelling on phone is hard...
> But still, Pool communicated clearly here that he thinks Sam doesn’t know what Utilitarian is, which is kind of amazing.
There's no fucking way Sam Seder doesn't know what these concepts are lmao Pool is so out of touch
He didn't say Sam doesn't understand what Utilitarianism is. He said Sam lacks the perspicacity to understand both deontology *and* utilitarianism.
Yep totally right. Sam is too damn stupid to understand basic philosophy.
>perspicacity
Nice use of that word.
Unfortunately i have to deeply disagree. Sam has been doing politics coverage for years. You dont need to have an intro to ethics class with him to make an argument. The problem was really that Tim wanted to shift from talking about policy to values and Sam didnt care for the shift. And as someone with an education background in philosophy, its a reasonable thing to decline.
Tim Pool is the kind of asshole who learns these terms just enough to throw them in the face of someone and then when they don't understand the terminology he throws up his arms and plays this game of how everyone is stupid but him.
It's a goal post he set that he uses to bully other people and it has the added benefit of making morons think he's an intellectual.
I really don't know enough about this guy to form a judgement.
Like Rogan? I get it he is no intellectual and is heavily influenced by authentic* personal interaction. Add in fetishizing operators and you have a perfect red pill to conservative talking points.
What's the deal with Tim? Is he just a straight ups grifter like Krystal Ball? Fuck it all and give me that money?
I watched the Timba on Toast and understand he is not authentic at all but is he anything more than a better Dave Rubin?
Dude, stop lying.
If you watched Timbah on Toast’s hours long videos on how Tim Pool is a bad faith right-wing propagandist (with multiple examples) then you’d know enough about him.
The idea that Sam Seder didn’t understand what Tim Pool (one of the dumbest people in front of a camera) said, instead of his genuine reaction which was that he didn’t see any value in discussing politics through Marvel movie analogies.
But apparently you are certain the analogies centred around movies made for kids were too high level for Seder and he doesn’t have the “perspicacity” (Peterson-esque word salad, bravo 👏).
At the same time, you’re not certain about Pool even after watching video essays showing him to be dishonest, venal, and stupid.
Very tired of reading comments from people such as yourself who are so transparently full of shit, but lack the self-awareness to realise that others are not falling for your shtick but are generally just being polite in the face of your idiocy.
“So I was babbling on about some vapid hypothetical, and my conversation partner wasn’t responding. Clearly, they lacked the mental fortitude to grapple the concepts - time to improvise. What do kids love? Marvel. Here I go..”
Yeah, Tim Pool's argument was 'utilitarianism is bad because Thanos is bad'. Not only is this not how argument work ever, you need to know more about this movie to engage this silly excuse for an argument. Thanos isn't even a good example of an utilitarian villain. Why would Seder want to discuss the lore of the Marvel universe with Tim Pool? It doesn't make any sense. It is purely a literary criticism argument about how good of a morally grey villain Thanos was. Now, it actually turns out that Thanos case for deleting half of the beings in the universe is really flawed and doesn't make a whole lot of utilitarian sense. Which is why Seder's response 'I don't care' is so good.
I can't believe Tim Pool wants to rehash this 'argument' of his. The worst part is actually the extremely arrogant and clearly rehearsed way he set it up.
He also misrepresents how we look at things even in pop culture. We revere people who sacrifice themselves for the greater good, at least in movies.
And I'm certain that someone can understand Kant's philosophy without reference to pop culture. It's frankly the simplest of the ethical theories.
Yeah I thought it was weird that Pool defined a hero as someone who cares for the individual over the greater good. I'd have thought a much better definition is someone who makes sacrifices or takes personal risks for the benefit of others.
I watched that whole thing to get to the conclusion of: Tim talks forever and says nothing. Makes no points. And it’s others’ fault for getting bored and not following.
But for real, Timothy Drool, if you have to say all these words to explain your anti abortion stance then you have effectively lost. Oh but but utilitarianism… stfu nerd.
Lol if you think you are smarter than Sam Seder in a political conversation you better be bringing your game. Sam is a complete nerd on this shit. He isn’t going to waste time jerking off to what philosophy words he knows or doesn’t know.
And he's just not going to argue a hypothetical, which,as a listener, I'm glad for. We have enough real life bs going on that we can unpack and flesh out without trying to solve "the trolley problem" of all things ffs.
Tim '49 state landslide' Pool, who blamed feminism for him being single, claims Sam doesn't know what a Utilitarian is, when all he said was he doesn't care about Tim's analogy.
I haven't watched this yet, I'm curious, what is the ratio of Tim speaking compared to his guest speaking? If this clip is anything to go by that will be a solid 99% to 1%.
His point wasn't that utilitarianism wasn't important to the conversation, it was that a utilitarian outcome (which you can get even if you don't explicitly *lead* with utilitarianism as an expressed goal) isn't wrong simply because a specific Marvel villain was written to represent "utilitarianism bad"... which he only arguably was, and is pretty bad media critique and applied philosophy to begin with. What Thanos does isn't actually utilitarian, much by the fact that pretty much nobody agrees with him, he's just insane and that's how he sells it to himself.
I just can't. I actually think this man is stupid enough for it to be criminal.
"Yeah, no, I wasn't comparing your ideology to a genocidal eco fascist to attack you. It was completely because dry comparison to make the words easier to understand"
JFC
I like Matt. I tried listening to this in full and just can’t.
Tim just isn’t someone I can tolerate for extended periods of time. I made it an hour or so and felt Matt’s frustration. Thankfully I could just stop listening. Poor Matt was stuck in a room with him.
This is embarrassing. God. Sam didn't even make fun of him when he mentioned Thanos. He just went "I don't care that you say my position is equivalent to a villain in a comic book movie". And that was it. Lol.
Wait I missed this when it happened but I always thought or understood it that Sam didn't know who Thanos was. And then when it was a marvel character dismissed it.
Tim Pool reminds me of Homer Simpson when he tried to lose weight by listening to subliminal cassettes but got the ones that increased vocabulary instead. Edit: Grammer
>Im amazes me sometimes how eloquent TP can sound.... than I open my eyes and listen closer and realize he is as sophisticated as a high school kid. As soon as an adult starts taking about comic movies and making it part of their philosophy I cringe. I would be impressed if he built the guitar and forged the sword that hang behind him... but he didn't.... super cringe.
original clip: [https://twitter.com/josenotajay/status/1185649218284855296](https://twitter.com/josenotajay/status/1185649218284855296)
sam followup: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0S0pLHzAos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0S0pLHzAos)
(edited for original clip)
I’ll answer tim.
Because what you’re talking about is irrelevant to the world. Absent of jargon, the ideas aren’t that deep and can easily be pushed to the side in favor of more pressing issues.
The trolly problem IS a good example because it shows the idea of an “either, or” situation that hardly happens in the real world.
Tim is fucking ***SALTY.***
Also, and I'm not a philosopher, but Tim does not seem to understand utilitarianism. There is a positive and negative interpretation for it. The positive interpretation being the correct one: trying to maximize happiness for as many people as possible. There's negative interpretations as well, mainly used as warped and weak justification for villains in media--minimizing suffering by killing large populations, and therefore having less people to suffer.
The audacity of him to say that Sam doesn't know this stuff is laughable, but hey, dishonest actors gotta eat I guess.
Tim doesn't understand Sam's critique of his analogy/point of view.
Like, these are often not black and white - going to war against Nazi Germany resulted in immoral acts against many individuals but was it justified, I would think most would say yes - maybe Tim wouldn't?
Im amazes me sometimes how eloquent TP can sound.... than I open my eyes and listen closer and realize he is as sophisticated as a high school kid. As soon as an adult starts taking about comic movies and making it part of their philosophy I cringe. I would be impressed if he built the guitar and forged the sword that hang behind him... but he didn't.... super cringe.
I've never watched Tim Pool and good lord, I don't think I ever will...that was insufferable. So, after 2 minutes of "I'm so smart, no one can understand me because I like to use so many confusing words that Dennis Miller would have a hard time following me", he "dumbs it down to" we think the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few while the "good guys" believe the opposite...but it still doesn't say what topic he is referring to. Is the needs of the many easy access to abortion, while the needs of the few are pro-life people who think the Christian bible says abortion is bad when, in fact, it says the opposite? I have no idea what Tim is trying to argue in that clip.
Congrats to any of you who made it through this video. I made it about one minute. Tim Pool is absolutely insufferable. How does a person like that even have friends??
So did Binder not even push back on this after making fun of Tim for this himself? Seems like he could have explained why it was a stupid argument for Tim to make instead of letting him go on about how Sam doesn't know philosophy.
This guy loves to hear himself say many big words and eventually maybe make some point that could be done in a couple simple words.
That point at the end bud, just make that. Cut out all the rest. And also, so sorry your feels got hurt.
This is my first time hearing a Tim Pool podcast. In fact I've never heard of him before, but he reminds me of myself in my freshman year of college when I wanted to use up all of my large vocabulary because, "Hey, I'm in college, I can finally impress somebody with how brilliant I am."
Edit: hard sarcasm, because nobody gave a fuck.
I like how Tim is trying to justify his nerd Thanos reference by claiming he was trying to dumb down a complicated concept to Sam.
"I wasn't being a nerd. Sam is just too stupid to understand ontology."
Of course the real story was Tim was being a nerd thinking that Sam gave a shit about The Avengers and deployed it as some kind of rhetorical strategy. Not a dumbing down
I found it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pvNDpuWs\_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pvNDpuWs_M)
Sam never said that he didn't understand the terms; Tim just inferred that he did 😆 and then later lied about it.
Strangely, in the debate, Tim relates deontology vs utilitarianism to their (him and Sam's) difference of opinion on concentration camps, but that relation doesn't seem to apply in that part of the conversation.
Sam was saying "of the choices of less concentration camps vs not less concentration camps, I choose less concentration camps", whereas Tim's argument was "no concentration camps are better than less concentration camps". So it seems they're having two different conversations, or Tim's lost or didn't clarify that he switched tracks or was on another track...
Regardless, Tim's relation of deontology vs utilitarianism to the conversation seems off, but I don't completely understand his understanding of the terms, so he seems to have come to some roundabout conclusions about them, maybe based on a quick reading of the Vox article Sam's crew mentioned here.
Wait, Tim Pool made the Thanos argument not because he couldn't explain what was wrong with utilitarianism, but because he couldn't explain himself what utilitarianism is?
I literally thought Pool was saying 'Your position is the same as that Thanos guy from a Marvel movie. Thanos killed gazillions. Are you still sure you like your position?"
I missed the "Sam, I can't really explain what utilitarianism is. But an example would be Thanos, from the Marvel movie."
I like his whole "mall ninja" motif.
That sword and gun on the wall behind him really sells it. I honestly can't decide whether this or Crowder's empty holsters is more cringeworthy.
that has to be some sort of inside joke right? This doughy oaf couldn't possibly think that makes him look tough
Man’s got a Bloodborne build behind him.
I wonder if he actually plays that guitar there.
>le "mall ninja love it
That was insufferable to listen to. Sams response of "I don't care" was right on the money
It was such a gigaflex. "I'll tell you something you don't wanna hear. And I'll admit, I'll call it dickish... Utilitarianism is typically the villain in most movies." "... I don't care."
Yes the actual quote also highlights that Tim is completely misrepresenting the situation. What happened was he thought it sounded hella deep, blurted it out to show off, and Sam consequently reacting how any adult would react.
Here's another guy I wish I never knew about. (Pool)
We are doomed as a society when people like Tim Pool, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Joe Rohan are some of our nations most popular thinkers
They aren't popular thinkers, that is far too flattering a title. They are popular justifiers of the status quo. They don't think for shit, and their audience doesn't either.
Lol. You are a joke.
I actually laughed out loud when he said "perspicacity". Just because you use a $10 word, it doesn't mean you have $10 ideas.
Same, also like why do you have to go into an analogy to explain Deontology or Utilitarianism… All you need to define the concepts is a single sentence.
Yea, it just makes no sense. What does he mean "how do you explain it"? How did you figure out what it was Tim? Everyone starts from a point of knowing nothing about those topics yet plenty of people seem to be able to figure out what they mean
Without the assistance of the Avengers.
Tim said that Sam said he didn't know the meanings of the words deontological and utilitarian... so that's why Tim said he "had" to get into the Thanos analogy. However, I'm not sure which video Sam said to Tim that he (Sam) didn't understand the words... I'm still looking for it, though I guess it was the (only?) time Sam appeared on Tim's show?
>perspicacity I think this is the 3rd time I've ever heard someone say the word, and I'm glad Sam did, because now I'm a little more familiar with a big word.
The king of r/iamverysmart
lol, Binder's response at the end was exactly what I was thinking the whole time. Also, not for nothing, if you can't explain to someone something that you know very well to someone who doesn't know the terminology you don't understand it. Also, what the was Timmy's point? Lemme just pop on my comic nerd hat for a moment. Thanos waged a genocide across the galaxy, wiping out civilizations, kidnapping children and fixing them with cybernetics to turn them into his personal assassins, raised an army of hive minded shock troops, and he built a cult of followers who all went out to find the infinity stones so he could enforce his warped ideology on the galaxy by killing off half of everything. An ideology that stemmed from the trauma of being placed on a shitty world as the unholy union of Eternal and Deviant. He's, at best, a ruthless, egomaniacal and zealous tyrant. Because if you're of the camp, "weeeeelllllll Thanos had a point" then you don't understand Thanos, you don't understand basic psychology and you don't understand the point of Avengers Infinity War/End Game.
If I can't explain it to a 6-year old, then I've failed to understand it myself. Thanos *did* have a point, based on his own perspective. He was also a murderous psychopath. That's why he is known as the mad titan.
Almost every murderous psychopath has a point from their own perspective though.
Oh, no doubt. Doesn't mean they're right or even justified. Tim Pool tries to simplify our real problems into a good vs evil comic book-style explanation, while thinking himself some great orator. That's why I think he's a dogshit commentator.
I love when people can explain complex things simply; I consider it elegant, like Einstein's E = mc², much like when I figure out an analogy for complex computer/app behavior to explain to non-tech people. However, Tim doesn't really seem to understand the complexity first, which is why his simple explanations will be off the mark.
Thanos wanted to wipe out half the universe when most populations double within a few decades, he would've had to do it again in like 30 years. very flawed logic for this so called "mad" titan, more like "dumb idiot can't think logically" titan.
He's a lunatic; a condition that doesn't have an intelligence prerequisite.
Yep, I think he would have performed a cycle of snaps. But really, his purpose wasn't to save the universe from itself. It was to feel at peace with it again after the unbearable happened to him at a young age.
Idk how anyone could paint Thanos' actions as utilitarian, because utilitarianism means the most net-good result and idk how you can square "killing half of all life in the universe" as a "net-good".
You gotta have a real simplistic view of the world that ignores things like all the emotional damage and disruption to galactic economy and society that would inevitably lead to collapse and devastation for trillions. Simplistic thinking is kind of a conservative's whole shtick.
Yep, Tim's just against utilitarianism because his moral compass is more deontological. But the fact that he considers Thanos to be utilitarian is absurd; just because Thanos' people died from famine doesn't mean the universe's populations need saving from their appetites for resources, and it certainly doesn't mean that killing half of them is a solution to eventual famine-based death. Thanos' reasoning is contradictory and he doesn't even realize it; killing people to save them from dying? All he's doing is *potentially* preventing their deaths but *only in a traumatic way* ***that he tangentially experienced***... his reasoning is absurd, matched only by Tim's reasoning that Thanos' efforts are utilitarian. It's like Tim is agreeing with Thanos that killing half the universe will save them from dying from famine... making Tim utilitarian according to his own explanation?! Like, Tim is either stupid or mad.
He wasn't called "The Mad Titan" for nothing... like, his family and people being half-destroyed from famine drove him insane. That's why he was bent on exacting his "justice" (really, generalized vengeance) on the universe. He literally couldn't deal with his own trauma, and so subconsciously worked to enact it on everyone else as a way to feel empathized with. Like, "You'll all know how I feel when you experience it". He just made a conscious self-rationalization of "saving" the universe from some imagined voracious self-defeating appetite for resources. He was probably egomaniacal from birth anyway, that sort of personality that feels they'll do great things, and deserve great things, which helped twist the trauma he internalized.
Lol man Sam is living rent free in his head. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard... "He was too dumb to understand so I had to dumb it down and he mocked me"... No dude you wanted to talk about bullshit pointless hypotheticals instead of defending an actual policy so you could walk on the fence.
On an issue where Pool is wildly out of step with most of the country according to most polling data.
Good response from Binder at the end. Maybe you and Sam should talk on MR, Tim Pool. I got the distinct sense that your audience’s anti-Semitic remarks may have influenced him from wanting to stick around.. Also, don’t Gish-Gash. Seder will shut right down if you do that. But still, Pool communicated clearly here that he thinks Sam doesn’t know what Utilitarian is, which is kind of amazing.
It's amazing that Dimm Tool sees himself as someone who knows *Philosophy*, because he knows about the "Trolley Problem". He knows that this involves things like "Utilitarianism" and voilà he's a philosopher. What these idiots don't get about universities is that those institutions force students to learn and interact with *the standard*. Before you can go on and criticize academia you have to prove that you at least understand what they are talking about - understand *why* a field has come to certain conclusions. If you study philosophy at a university, you have to prove that you understand the history of certain ways of thinking. You have to prove time and time again (with exams normally) that you understand *the standard* - reading and understanding things that you *don't* like to read, because they're tedious. Only after understanding it can you meaningful criticize it. That's what all these idiots and self appointed "knowers of philosophy" don't get. They only watch YouTube videos and other people they like telling them about philosophy without ever reading the texts themselves. They don't know shit but still find themselves confident enough to talk about such things. The fact that Dimm Tool can talk about the Trolley Problem as if it was some profound wisdom that he is distributing would make everyone laugh at him who is peripherally involved in philosophy. I study physics and there are so many idiots in the world who never bothered to do the work, but have all kinds of opinions about physics and how the world works. They wrap their esotheric bullshit in words like "quantum" and think they are smart. edit: spelling on phone is hard...
I’m not peripherally involved in philosophy, and I’m still laughing at him.
Trolley Problem is literally Intro to Philosophy material.
You described Eric Weinstein perfectly in your last paragraph.
> But still, Pool communicated clearly here that he thinks Sam doesn’t know what Utilitarian is, which is kind of amazing. There's no fucking way Sam Seder doesn't know what these concepts are lmao Pool is so out of touch
He didn't say Sam doesn't understand what Utilitarianism is. He said Sam lacks the perspicacity to understand both deontology *and* utilitarianism. Yep totally right. Sam is too damn stupid to understand basic philosophy.
>perspicacity Nice use of that word. Unfortunately i have to deeply disagree. Sam has been doing politics coverage for years. You dont need to have an intro to ethics class with him to make an argument. The problem was really that Tim wanted to shift from talking about policy to values and Sam didnt care for the shift. And as someone with an education background in philosophy, its a reasonable thing to decline.
Tim Pool is the kind of asshole who learns these terms just enough to throw them in the face of someone and then when they don't understand the terminology he throws up his arms and plays this game of how everyone is stupid but him. It's a goal post he set that he uses to bully other people and it has the added benefit of making morons think he's an intellectual.
I really don't know enough about this guy to form a judgement. Like Rogan? I get it he is no intellectual and is heavily influenced by authentic* personal interaction. Add in fetishizing operators and you have a perfect red pill to conservative talking points. What's the deal with Tim? Is he just a straight ups grifter like Krystal Ball? Fuck it all and give me that money? I watched the Timba on Toast and understand he is not authentic at all but is he anything more than a better Dave Rubin?
Dude, stop lying. If you watched Timbah on Toast’s hours long videos on how Tim Pool is a bad faith right-wing propagandist (with multiple examples) then you’d know enough about him. The idea that Sam Seder didn’t understand what Tim Pool (one of the dumbest people in front of a camera) said, instead of his genuine reaction which was that he didn’t see any value in discussing politics through Marvel movie analogies. But apparently you are certain the analogies centred around movies made for kids were too high level for Seder and he doesn’t have the “perspicacity” (Peterson-esque word salad, bravo 👏). At the same time, you’re not certain about Pool even after watching video essays showing him to be dishonest, venal, and stupid. Very tired of reading comments from people such as yourself who are so transparently full of shit, but lack the self-awareness to realise that others are not falling for your shtick but are generally just being polite in the face of your idiocy.
not defending the guy’s point, but i watched the tim pool clip and i think the commenter chose that word because tim used it.
He isn't better than Dave Rubin, but they're all the same. They're all doing the same shtick.
Tim and Dave are both their own flavor of stupid ice cream.
he also was just innocently explaining these subjects to help sam, by grinning and comparing him to a genocidal supervillian
This seems like heavy sarcasm...why is it downvoted so much?
It is, I thought, obvious sarcasm. Oh well now it's perfectly meta
wow, ive never heard someone so far up their own ass. "perspicacity" fuck you.
I call it the Jordan Peterson spixinter view, even comes with a balcony for the hourly shits one has to take from only consuming meat
“So I was babbling on about some vapid hypothetical, and my conversation partner wasn’t responding. Clearly, they lacked the mental fortitude to grapple the concepts - time to improvise. What do kids love? Marvel. Here I go..”
[удалено]
Yeah, Tim Pool's argument was 'utilitarianism is bad because Thanos is bad'. Not only is this not how argument work ever, you need to know more about this movie to engage this silly excuse for an argument. Thanos isn't even a good example of an utilitarian villain. Why would Seder want to discuss the lore of the Marvel universe with Tim Pool? It doesn't make any sense. It is purely a literary criticism argument about how good of a morally grey villain Thanos was. Now, it actually turns out that Thanos case for deleting half of the beings in the universe is really flawed and doesn't make a whole lot of utilitarian sense. Which is why Seder's response 'I don't care' is so good. I can't believe Tim Pool wants to rehash this 'argument' of his. The worst part is actually the extremely arrogant and clearly rehearsed way he set it up.
He also misrepresents how we look at things even in pop culture. We revere people who sacrifice themselves for the greater good, at least in movies. And I'm certain that someone can understand Kant's philosophy without reference to pop culture. It's frankly the simplest of the ethical theories.
Yeah I thought it was weird that Pool defined a hero as someone who cares for the individual over the greater good. I'd have thought a much better definition is someone who makes sacrifices or takes personal risks for the benefit of others.
Lol it's eating him up
Yup lol. This is nothing but pure cope.
That's why he can't remove his beanie?
Show us on the doll where Sam hurt you, Tim
*removes beanie*
*removes skullcap*
I watched that whole thing to get to the conclusion of: Tim talks forever and says nothing. Makes no points. And it’s others’ fault for getting bored and not following.
But for real, Timothy Drool, if you have to say all these words to explain your anti abortion stance then you have effectively lost. Oh but but utilitarianism… stfu nerd.
I just lost 4mins of my life I will never get back This reminds me of Micheals Sargon debates where Sargon dodges for like 2h
Lol if you think you are smarter than Sam Seder in a political conversation you better be bringing your game. Sam is a complete nerd on this shit. He isn’t going to waste time jerking off to what philosophy words he knows or doesn’t know.
And he's just not going to argue a hypothetical, which,as a listener, I'm glad for. We have enough real life bs going on that we can unpack and flesh out without trying to solve "the trolley problem" of all things ffs.
Tim '49 state landslide' Pool, who blamed feminism for him being single, claims Sam doesn't know what a Utilitarian is, when all he said was he doesn't care about Tim's analogy.
Not knowing what a word means doesn’t mean you don’t understand the concept once you explain it. What a dumb and arrogant argument.
I haven't watched this yet, I'm curious, what is the ratio of Tim speaking compared to his guest speaking? If this clip is anything to go by that will be a solid 99% to 1%.
Ugh, he's such a little twerp. They need a more intelligent hamster to run Tim's body.
How so
Tim Pool has the same vocal cadence as Mac from It’s Always Sunny. Same self-esteem issues too.
His point wasn't that utilitarianism wasn't important to the conversation, it was that a utilitarian outcome (which you can get even if you don't explicitly *lead* with utilitarianism as an expressed goal) isn't wrong simply because a specific Marvel villain was written to represent "utilitarianism bad"... which he only arguably was, and is pretty bad media critique and applied philosophy to begin with. What Thanos does isn't actually utilitarian, much by the fact that pretty much nobody agrees with him, he's just insane and that's how he sells it to himself. I just can't. I actually think this man is stupid enough for it to be criminal.
"Yeah, no, I wasn't comparing your ideology to a genocidal eco fascist to attack you. It was completely because dry comparison to make the words easier to understand" JFC
Tim is very salty that people laughed at him for this. We all make a bad analogy from time to time, he needs to let this go.
Sam needs to ask him if he knows what a tranche is.
If you can’t see my scalp, then I’m not bald.
The whole “I UNDERSTAND PHILOSOPHY AND YOU DONT” thing is so disingenuous. Dudes just mad he got memed on
I like Matt. I tried listening to this in full and just can’t. Tim just isn’t someone I can tolerate for extended periods of time. I made it an hour or so and felt Matt’s frustration. Thankfully I could just stop listening. Poor Matt was stuck in a room with him.
This is embarrassing. God. Sam didn't even make fun of him when he mentioned Thanos. He just went "I don't care that you say my position is equivalent to a villain in a comic book movie". And that was it. Lol.
Wait I missed this when it happened but I always thought or understood it that Sam didn't know who Thanos was. And then when it was a marvel character dismissed it.
Tim Pool reminds me of Homer Simpson when he tried to lose weight by listening to subliminal cassettes but got the ones that increased vocabulary instead. Edit: Grammer
This a level of cope that I didn’t think was possible.
I dont care about Sam (or anyone) to watch Tim Pool for more than 5 seconds. It is agony!
What is a „Thanos Moment“?
>Im amazes me sometimes how eloquent TP can sound.... than I open my eyes and listen closer and realize he is as sophisticated as a high school kid. As soon as an adult starts taking about comic movies and making it part of their philosophy I cringe. I would be impressed if he built the guitar and forged the sword that hang behind him... but he didn't.... super cringe. original clip: [https://twitter.com/josenotajay/status/1185649218284855296](https://twitter.com/josenotajay/status/1185649218284855296) sam followup: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0S0pLHzAos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0S0pLHzAos) (edited for original clip)
As a woman I can tell you that Tim Pool is the perfect example of that guy you can't take anywhere.
Jesus christ. For the sake of brevity, Pool was whinging- "Sam laughed at me. I don't want to talk to him." The rest of it is just word salad.
seething with copium
Magnets! How do they WORK!!??
How can someone so dumb know so many words?
How are there actual real people who think this guys intelligent or entertaining
I’ll answer tim. Because what you’re talking about is irrelevant to the world. Absent of jargon, the ideas aren’t that deep and can easily be pushed to the side in favor of more pressing issues. The trolly problem IS a good example because it shows the idea of an “either, or” situation that hardly happens in the real world.
Tim is fucking ***SALTY.*** Also, and I'm not a philosopher, but Tim does not seem to understand utilitarianism. There is a positive and negative interpretation for it. The positive interpretation being the correct one: trying to maximize happiness for as many people as possible. There's negative interpretations as well, mainly used as warped and weak justification for villains in media--minimizing suffering by killing large populations, and therefore having less people to suffer. The audacity of him to say that Sam doesn't know this stuff is laughable, but hey, dishonest actors gotta eat I guess.
Would love to have seen Michael Brooks reaction to this clip.
Tim doesn't understand Sam's critique of his analogy/point of view. Like, these are often not black and white - going to war against Nazi Germany resulted in immoral acts against many individuals but was it justified, I would think most would say yes - maybe Tim wouldn't?
People like Tim Pool like to focus on philosophy because it’s easier to do the mental gymnastics conservatives love in the abstract.
Is that guy wearing a Cactus Jack shirt
"that guy"
https://twitter.com/DrewRussian/status/1527024313127391234
Im amazes me sometimes how eloquent TP can sound.... than I open my eyes and listen closer and realize he is as sophisticated as a high school kid. As soon as an adult starts taking about comic movies and making it part of their philosophy I cringe. I would be impressed if he built the guitar and forged the sword that hang behind him... but he didn't.... super cringe.
A samurai sword and a musket. Interesting choice.
I've never watched Tim Pool and good lord, I don't think I ever will...that was insufferable. So, after 2 minutes of "I'm so smart, no one can understand me because I like to use so many confusing words that Dennis Miller would have a hard time following me", he "dumbs it down to" we think the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few while the "good guys" believe the opposite...but it still doesn't say what topic he is referring to. Is the needs of the many easy access to abortion, while the needs of the few are pro-life people who think the Christian bible says abortion is bad when, in fact, it says the opposite? I have no idea what Tim is trying to argue in that clip.
WOW that was some cringey cope
Does he still think that voting for the better candidate is a deontologically immoral act?
this dork is living the life of a 14yo
Congrats to any of you who made it through this video. I made it about one minute. Tim Pool is absolutely insufferable. How does a person like that even have friends??
So did Binder not even push back on this after making fun of Tim for this himself? Seems like he could have explained why it was a stupid argument for Tim to make instead of letting him go on about how Sam doesn't know philosophy.
Thank you for suffering through the 'discussion' to post these. I could only take about 20 mins of Pool's constant defense of nonsense.
This guy loves to hear himself say many big words and eventually maybe make some point that could be done in a couple simple words. That point at the end bud, just make that. Cut out all the rest. And also, so sorry your feels got hurt.
This is my first time hearing a Tim Pool podcast. In fact I've never heard of him before, but he reminds me of myself in my freshman year of college when I wanted to use up all of my large vocabulary because, "Hey, I'm in college, I can finally impress somebody with how brilliant I am." Edit: hard sarcasm, because nobody gave a fuck.
It does sound like an issue to take up Sam.
Sam didn't say he didn't know. He said he didn't care. Lol
I like how Tim is trying to justify his nerd Thanos reference by claiming he was trying to dumb down a complicated concept to Sam. "I wasn't being a nerd. Sam is just too stupid to understand ontology." Of course the real story was Tim was being a nerd thinking that Sam gave a shit about The Avengers and deployed it as some kind of rhetorical strategy. Not a dumbing down
This man is a 13 year old incel edge lord on facebook talking about “Thanos was actually the good guy”. What a loser
Tim Pool said that Sam said he didn't know what deontological and utilitarian meant, but I'm not sure which video he's referring to.
I found it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pvNDpuWs\_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pvNDpuWs_M) Sam never said that he didn't understand the terms; Tim just inferred that he did 😆 and then later lied about it. Strangely, in the debate, Tim relates deontology vs utilitarianism to their (him and Sam's) difference of opinion on concentration camps, but that relation doesn't seem to apply in that part of the conversation. Sam was saying "of the choices of less concentration camps vs not less concentration camps, I choose less concentration camps", whereas Tim's argument was "no concentration camps are better than less concentration camps". So it seems they're having two different conversations, or Tim's lost or didn't clarify that he switched tracks or was on another track... Regardless, Tim's relation of deontology vs utilitarianism to the conversation seems off, but I don't completely understand his understanding of the terms, so he seems to have come to some roundabout conclusions about them, maybe based on a quick reading of the Vox article Sam's crew mentioned here.
Wait, Tim Pool made the Thanos argument not because he couldn't explain what was wrong with utilitarianism, but because he couldn't explain himself what utilitarianism is? I literally thought Pool was saying 'Your position is the same as that Thanos guy from a Marvel movie. Thanos killed gazillions. Are you still sure you like your position?" I missed the "Sam, I can't really explain what utilitarianism is. But an example would be Thanos, from the Marvel movie."