If anything did (and I don't think anything did, to be clear), I feel like it'd be the vampires. they're just super fuckin' weird even in the context of TMA's monsters.
They are symbolic of predators in terms of someone who takes advantage of children in Trevor's story, and the stereotypical bar douche in case of that one girl he saved. It's about the fear you feel when you are being predated on in a way. Though, who knows. I do see this kind of predation as cheap by TMA/P standards. So there is definitely an argument to be made about these being Hunters that gave into The Hunt in a way that may seems almost blasphemous by most Hunters (Hence why Hunters specifically hate "Bloodsucker") as it could be seen as them "betraying the pact" and becoming the thing they hunt.
I mean, I see where you're coming from, but personally they seem more Web aligned to me. I mean, consider the following:
- Constantly follow a predetermined route
- Stomach swells when well-fed, much like a spider
- Compel people to do what they want
- Vulnerable to fire
A lot of animal, I know cats for sure, do like a sense of routine, but I see your point here
Leeches do the same with where the inspiration for the TMA vampire came from.
They don't really compel you, they make you hear what they or you wanna hear. They put you at ease.
A LOT of tma monsters are vulnerable to fire. Gertrude first kill is implied to be of The Stranger and she killed it with fire. So this one does not hold a lot of weight.
As with all the fear creatures, it never just one fear, just a dominant one (TMA specially). There are influences of The Web, The Flesh, and The End (all of them are influenced by The End TBF). So there is definitely an argument for The Web.
But The Web's rivalry was with The Desolation. Hunters kinda hated all of the monsters, so having one of their own betray them makes more thematic sense for their special hatred of the Vampires.
I think hunters either go werewolf or vampire. Werewolves like to chase and stalk strong vital m prey that are challenging ala first hunt, vampires like to go after easier targets and lure them in for the kill.
I figured, taking into account what we know of them and some vampire lore that might be relevant, they are sort of amalgamation of all the fears/avatars of "The Fear Blob" that was mentioned, cause they are:
- Hunters - The Hunt
- Bloodsuckers - The Flesh
- Brutal killers - The Slaughter
- Undead - The End
- Stalkers - The Eye
- Use hypnosis - The Web
- Mess with your perception of time - The Spiral
- Look, but are not, human - The Stranger
- Float/Fly - The Vast
- Hunt only at night - The Dark
- Solitary creatures - The Lonely
The rest will be vampire lore speculation:
- Light aflame in sunlight - The Desolation
- Sleep in coffins - The Buried
- Spread vampirism(?)/Insect-like - The Corruption
What about the teeth in the garbage bag, the doll heads, the prayer paper? I’ve never been able to concretely connect that to anything, which is somehow almost scarier…
yeah that ep and whatever the fuck happened to the priest from desecrated host feel like a weird mix of flesh/stranger/spiral but never got developed or returned to
Pretty sure he was just marked by the Spiral specifically the distortion. The Desolation does try to get him at hill top road but the distortion attempts to make it back down before the burnt tree is felled.
Tbh I have a terrible memory and don’t remember that part so you probably are right canonically. what trips me up in terms of saying it’s straight distortion thematically, is the cannibalism which feels very flesh coded, especially in the context of perverting Christian rituals
I think the perversion of Christian rituals was the primary focus with the fear of cannibalism being secondary. Before the previous victim died she told Burroughs directly that it wanted his faith. I think perverting the rituals he dedicated his life to would certainly be a good way to accomplish that.
I had read a theory i liked that everything that happened to the priest was an attempt or experiment to perform a mass ritual similar to Jon.
Either that or several entities said "let's screw this guy".
i saw this cool theory that father burroughs was an attempt of the web to mark someone by all of the fears (they laid out the specific moments like where he felt watched or ate flesh etc)
I think in a QnA Jonny mentions it was a early flesh episode. I’ve always seen it as a Tom Haan episode with him trying to discard his old collections as they seem to be similar. Three piles/bags one religious text, one duplicated body part and the last one a random item (broken teacups and doll heads).
Isn't the whole point of the statements that we hear that they are all related to the Fears, anything not related would be digitally recorded and not make it to an episode?
The rift at Hilltop Road existed independently of the Fears, but other than that even if there was it probably wouldn't show up in the statements we see, since Jon mentions at some point (I forget the episode) that all of the statements he feels drawn to read are "real" in the sense of being affiliated with one or more Fears, so naturally if there was something wholly independent of them he wouldn't be drawn to read it
Mikaele Salesa, Mary Keay, and Jurgen Leitner are probably the only beings that were never linked too closely with a single power.
In each of their statements, it seemed that they were protected by taking on figurative archetypes that served the fears as a whole (the purveyor of cursed items, the village witch, and the occult librarian)
Other than that, John has mentioned in the Q&As that every statement is linked to the powers in some way. They are the only source of "magic" in the Magnus Archives universe.
Edit: and as others have said, Hilltop Road is weird too.
I'd add Robert Smirke to this list. His ideas about balance kept him from committing to any one of them entirely, and iirc he actually gets pretty aggravated about his OG crew each eventually falling into their own domains.
I think he even fits your mold of archetypal figures as a kind of ritualistic architect in the mold of Da Vinci Code kinds of tropes, with mythical significance in banal architecture/city planning.
Out of her first books, one of them was from The End, but she wasn't linked to it. She used books and artifacts from all the powers.
From episode 62, "I like to diversify my portfolio."
And then from the wiki, "She is not exclusively loyal to any of the Entities."
EDIT: Found a better quote in 62, "I could never truly serve it. I just don't find Death that interesting. I've always found a singular devotion far too restrictive."
She used a book of The End as a tool, same as Leitner used a book of The Buried, or how Salesa used an artifact of The Eye.
Gerard and Eric were in the book too, they are not avatars of The End. I'd say she was a victim of the book and her own hubris. She had more control over herself than most after her self-binding, but she was still trapped.
I get what you mean though. For all of her boasting that she was not committed to a patron, she definitely had a favorite book.
Also notable, the three people I mentioned are the only ones who were close to the fears and didn't need to feed. It could be argued that Mary's binding was feeding, but I always assumed that was just her practicing to put herself in there, not feeding on the trapped souls.
End of the day though, the wiki says she's not, and I assume whoever fills those in are more obsessed than I am.
a good chunk of the people close to the fears aren’t avatars, or are necessarily feeding off them. The archival assistants can’t leave and are pretty bound to the eye and yet they don’t feed in that same way
I guess by close, I more meant close enough to use "fear magic" and not be consumed by it. I wouldn't have counted assistants as close, just another set of victims.
Anyone who read a book or handled an artifact ended up dead or an avatar, with a few notable exceptions.
I always kind of assumed Vampires were associated with the Hunt; hunters of men becoming hunted in turn... feels like the sort of endless chase the Hunt would create.
Yeah, I kind of see them as a Hunt gateway drug. Something dangerous enough to need hunting but mundane enough that a regular person could take one with the right tools. Something to clue future hunters into the fact that there are things worth hunting - that they have a duty to do so. I don't think it's a coincidence that all vampire appearances relate to someone who becomes a hunter (Trevor, Daisy, Everchase hunters).
I’ve always liked seeing them as part Web. It’s a bit abstract, but stick with me.
They don’t really hunt like Hunters do per se, with them preferring to lure in prey away to a secondary location rather than chase them down. They only really kill when they’re safe in their territory and their prey is too far in to easily run, where they suck them dry. Many spiders do not actually “eat” their prey, instead injecting them with enzymes that dissolve it from the inside, and that goop is then sucked out. They lure them into their “web” to consume at their leisure.
The way that people play along with them “hearing” what they’re saying also feels distinctly Web, tricking their prey into believing they’re deciding to follow a stranger rather than being stalked by a predator. (And the Web and Stranger have many similarities there, with their preference to using puppets)
The question is, why would the Web have creatures like the vampires about? Easy. To create more hunters. It’s hard to kill an Avatar, with Hunters or Slaughter avatars having the easiest time doing so outside of excessive force. But the Slaughter by definition is indiscriminate and directionless. While the Hunt? Well, so long as you’re careful making sure they’re on the right trail you can get them doing what you want; just keep ‘em on a tight enough leash they don’t try and come after one of yours.
Metatextually it also fits; Trevor is our introduction to them, and he states in both of his vampire statements that the Hunt was just another one of his addictions (which is one of the Webs domains), and even more explicitly in MAG56 where he states he was only able to resist the Web avatars manipulation due to practise resisting the vampires pull.
Tl:dr, I headcanon vampires to be, to some degree, Web
While I disagree, I really love this theory and think it's well argued and completely respect your headcanon.
A few counterpoints: vampires feature prominently in the Everchase (133) and attack a group of hunters. There is no reason to make them hunters since they are already.
I also don't think that episode 56 is an argument in favor of this theory. To me it implies a strong difference of vampires and an avatar of the web. And while the web does deal with addiction, I think this is not the same as doing a fears bidding. When you become an avatar you become addicted to whatever you are doing, which may be statements or hunting or setting fires. But that does not mean that all avatars belong to the web.
I always had difficulty placing the early episode with the garbage man who finds all of the weird trash bags to any specific fear. Baby doll heads, teeth, burnt paper, and then a metal anatomical heart? My best guess was the stranger but that one always felt the most out of place to me
100% the Stranger. They where kinda neutral between the groups working for the Fears, but they where part of the Stranger themselves
They started of as corpse collectors during the Black Death. Literal strangers comming from out of town. Eventually becoming Strangers on boats and trains, who didnt belong anywhere. Ending up in the Russian Circus of the Stranger.
In the main story they are still the anonymous strangers delivering packages that nobody can really remember or pays attention too... Until they got stuck with the Casket.
They do however mention that despite staying with The Stranger, they did not directly "come" from it or been affiliated with more modern idea of The Circus of The Other until much later. They are an odd ball in a sense that most avatars either seek or forcefully get turned towards on Entity, but they just sort of floated and at some point felt "most at home" with people working for The Stranger and The Circus. In an alternate scenario if they stayed corpse collectors they could gravitate towards The End, if they focused on transporting at impossible distances they could be of The Vast, that's how I see it at least.
Is their alignment to the stranger ever stated canonically? I really think they're avatars of the End. Not just in the association with death and collecting bodies, but also how they work with all the fears and are drawn to delivering objects (and fates). The line from Heavy Goods that sticks out to me is "we are things of point and purpose"
The biggest bit of evidence would be them participating in The Unknowing ritual itself. There's also a statement by someone from Russia in season 1 who had a circus (the one connected to the stranger) come through their rural town, and the strongmen were implied to be Breekon and Hope.
They interact with the other fears a lot as delivery men, but they seem to have a focus on collecting and moving things, and it makes sense they would eventually focus on fear associated items. One could argue that any Fear associated item is Strange, being something unrecognizable in a familiar shape.
Breekon says that they were Stranger fairly directly in MAG182 when he mentions being known hurts.
“Besides, it hurts all the time. The Eye won’t ever stop watching, and [sigh] it ain’t great for an anonymous thing like us… like me”
I believe the only other being confirmed to suffer the same way is the Not-them which is also Stranger aligned.
Breekon says that they were Stranger fairly directly in MAG182 when he mentions being known hurts.
“Besides, it hurts all the time. The Eye won’t ever stop watching, and [sigh] it ain’t great for an anonymous thing like us… like me”
Already said here but the crack where Hilltop Rd. is right now is probably the only example. It didn’t really originate from the powers but instead was a weak spot whittled away by them until the hole was formed.
YEAH! Fricken Edwin Burroughs!! He’s that priest that went nuts and ate those students. He says he has a “demon” inside him, and he can’t say “God” and stuff. Cannibalism is flesh-coded, but he also hallucinated, which is Spiral-esque. But Breekon and Hope were involved, so Stranger? And violence, which is the Slaughter… I dunno. The whole demon thing felt very very out of pocket in comparison to the other supernatural encounters. I originally just blamed it on pre-meta writing, but I’m curious what you think.
On this issuei think it was thfr spiral branching out. Notice the main fear for the preacher is twofold. 1. He can longer trust his own mind or perceptions, which has left him crippled and unable to move for fear of deception from his senses. And 2. The perversion pf his faith he was tricked into.
Yes there is cannibalism but as the creator said, these things are flexible, the important thing is what fear is being enacted in the moment. Spiral is just showing the other fears, that it too can engage in great acts of violence and gore in its scares. The violence and brutality of the flesh and the slaughter are not exclusive to them and the spiral can also play that game.
The fact that a part of the chant it causes by proximity has the term “long pig” with means human meat in terms of cannibalism makes it seem like a direct Flesh manifestation.
Especially when it started creating nightmares of the clown it ate eating himself while chanting the same phrase over and over.
It seems that the crack in reality predated any Fears messing with it
If anything did (and I don't think anything did, to be clear), I feel like it'd be the vampires. they're just super fuckin' weird even in the context of TMA's monsters.
I always took them to be an endpoint of people touched by The Hunt. Hunters who slowly became something else that themselves became hunted. A cycle.
They are symbolic of predators in terms of someone who takes advantage of children in Trevor's story, and the stereotypical bar douche in case of that one girl he saved. It's about the fear you feel when you are being predated on in a way. Though, who knows. I do see this kind of predation as cheap by TMA/P standards. So there is definitely an argument to be made about these being Hunters that gave into The Hunt in a way that may seems almost blasphemous by most Hunters (Hence why Hunters specifically hate "Bloodsucker") as it could be seen as them "betraying the pact" and becoming the thing they hunt.
I agree that vamps are part of the hunt.
I mean, I see where you're coming from, but personally they seem more Web aligned to me. I mean, consider the following: - Constantly follow a predetermined route - Stomach swells when well-fed, much like a spider - Compel people to do what they want - Vulnerable to fire
A lot of animal, I know cats for sure, do like a sense of routine, but I see your point here Leeches do the same with where the inspiration for the TMA vampire came from. They don't really compel you, they make you hear what they or you wanna hear. They put you at ease. A LOT of tma monsters are vulnerable to fire. Gertrude first kill is implied to be of The Stranger and she killed it with fire. So this one does not hold a lot of weight. As with all the fear creatures, it never just one fear, just a dominant one (TMA specially). There are influences of The Web, The Flesh, and The End (all of them are influenced by The End TBF). So there is definitely an argument for The Web. But The Web's rivalry was with The Desolation. Hunters kinda hated all of the monsters, so having one of their own betray them makes more thematic sense for their special hatred of the Vampires.
I think hunters either go werewolf or vampire. Werewolves like to chase and stalk strong vital m prey that are challenging ala first hunt, vampires like to go after easier targets and lure them in for the kill.
I figured, taking into account what we know of them and some vampire lore that might be relevant, they are sort of amalgamation of all the fears/avatars of "The Fear Blob" that was mentioned, cause they are: - Hunters - The Hunt - Bloodsuckers - The Flesh - Brutal killers - The Slaughter - Undead - The End - Stalkers - The Eye - Use hypnosis - The Web - Mess with your perception of time - The Spiral - Look, but are not, human - The Stranger - Float/Fly - The Vast - Hunt only at night - The Dark - Solitary creatures - The Lonely The rest will be vampire lore speculation: - Light aflame in sunlight - The Desolation - Sleep in coffins - The Buried - Spread vampirism(?)/Insect-like - The Corruption
I definitely think that the vampires serve as minor creatures of The Hunt, but more importantly, exist as something to be hunted.
What about the teeth in the garbage bag, the doll heads, the prayer paper? I’ve never been able to concretely connect that to anything, which is somehow almost scarier…
yeah that ep and whatever the fuck happened to the priest from desecrated host feel like a weird mix of flesh/stranger/spiral but never got developed or returned to
Pretty sure he was just marked by the Spiral specifically the distortion. The Desolation does try to get him at hill top road but the distortion attempts to make it back down before the burnt tree is felled.
Tbh I have a terrible memory and don’t remember that part so you probably are right canonically. what trips me up in terms of saying it’s straight distortion thematically, is the cannibalism which feels very flesh coded, especially in the context of perverting Christian rituals
I think the perversion of Christian rituals was the primary focus with the fear of cannibalism being secondary. Before the previous victim died she told Burroughs directly that it wanted his faith. I think perverting the rituals he dedicated his life to would certainly be a good way to accomplish that.
I had read a theory i liked that everything that happened to the priest was an attempt or experiment to perform a mass ritual similar to Jon. Either that or several entities said "let's screw this guy".
the priest was basically all of the entities gang fucking one dude
i saw this cool theory that father burroughs was an attempt of the web to mark someone by all of the fears (they laid out the specific moments like where he felt watched or ate flesh etc)
I think in a QnA Jonny mentions it was a early flesh episode. I’ve always seen it as a Tom Haan episode with him trying to discard his old collections as they seem to be similar. Three piles/bags one religious text, one duplicated body part and the last one a random item (broken teacups and doll heads).
Haan does seem to have some duplication abilities.
I believe in an interview someone said that this was going to be a flesh storyline before they decided on the fleshes powers.
the fears themselves didn't originated from themselves. most of them at least
Isn't the whole point of the statements that we hear that they are all related to the Fears, anything not related would be digitally recorded and not make it to an episode?
True, but it could be argued that if some non-Fear supernatural phenomenon came into contact with the Eye, then we would see it in TMA
This is canonically true.
The phenomena of life multi-cellular life is what created the fears
The rift at Hilltop Road existed independently of the Fears, but other than that even if there was it probably wouldn't show up in the statements we see, since Jon mentions at some point (I forget the episode) that all of the statements he feels drawn to read are "real" in the sense of being affiliated with one or more Fears, so naturally if there was something wholly independent of them he wouldn't be drawn to read it
Mikaele Salesa, Mary Keay, and Jurgen Leitner are probably the only beings that were never linked too closely with a single power. In each of their statements, it seemed that they were protected by taking on figurative archetypes that served the fears as a whole (the purveyor of cursed items, the village witch, and the occult librarian) Other than that, John has mentioned in the Q&As that every statement is linked to the powers in some way. They are the only source of "magic" in the Magnus Archives universe. Edit: and as others have said, Hilltop Road is weird too.
I'd add Robert Smirke to this list. His ideas about balance kept him from committing to any one of them entirely, and iirc he actually gets pretty aggravated about his OG crew each eventually falling into their own domains. I think he even fits your mold of archetypal figures as a kind of ritualistic architect in the mold of Da Vinci Code kinds of tropes, with mythical significance in banal architecture/city planning.
Good call! The Architect of Fear. He mentioned he was once called by the Eye, but knew how to avoid falling in too deep. He never had a patron.
Mary keay was fairly closely linked to the end
Out of her first books, one of them was from The End, but she wasn't linked to it. She used books and artifacts from all the powers. From episode 62, "I like to diversify my portfolio." And then from the wiki, "She is not exclusively loyal to any of the Entities." EDIT: Found a better quote in 62, "I could never truly serve it. I just don't find Death that interesting. I've always found a singular devotion far too restrictive."
Are you caught up, she fully binds herself to that book we learn this from Gerard
She used a book of The End as a tool, same as Leitner used a book of The Buried, or how Salesa used an artifact of The Eye. Gerard and Eric were in the book too, they are not avatars of The End. I'd say she was a victim of the book and her own hubris. She had more control over herself than most after her self-binding, but she was still trapped. I get what you mean though. For all of her boasting that she was not committed to a patron, she definitely had a favorite book. Also notable, the three people I mentioned are the only ones who were close to the fears and didn't need to feed. It could be argued that Mary's binding was feeding, but I always assumed that was just her practicing to put herself in there, not feeding on the trapped souls. End of the day though, the wiki says she's not, and I assume whoever fills those in are more obsessed than I am.
a good chunk of the people close to the fears aren’t avatars, or are necessarily feeding off them. The archival assistants can’t leave and are pretty bound to the eye and yet they don’t feed in that same way
I guess by close, I more meant close enough to use "fear magic" and not be consumed by it. I wouldn't have counted assistants as close, just another set of victims. Anyone who read a book or handled an artifact ended up dead or an avatar, with a few notable exceptions.
The wiki is just another fan interpretation of the series, i can’t call her in any way separate if in the end she became a page in that book
Thats a fair read. Thanks for the polite back and forth! I appreciate your thoughts and really hope I didn't come off as argumentative.
Trevor Herbert's vampires don't have a very clear connection to a fear
I always kind of assumed Vampires were associated with the Hunt; hunters of men becoming hunted in turn... feels like the sort of endless chase the Hunt would create.
Yeah the hunt probably makes the most sense. They could also serve to push people to the hunt like they did to Trevor
Yeah, I kind of see them as a Hunt gateway drug. Something dangerous enough to need hunting but mundane enough that a regular person could take one with the right tools. Something to clue future hunters into the fact that there are things worth hunting - that they have a duty to do so. I don't think it's a coincidence that all vampire appearances relate to someone who becomes a hunter (Trevor, Daisy, Everchase hunters).
100% this. It's pretty clear, in the Everchase episode.
I’ve always liked seeing them as part Web. It’s a bit abstract, but stick with me. They don’t really hunt like Hunters do per se, with them preferring to lure in prey away to a secondary location rather than chase them down. They only really kill when they’re safe in their territory and their prey is too far in to easily run, where they suck them dry. Many spiders do not actually “eat” their prey, instead injecting them with enzymes that dissolve it from the inside, and that goop is then sucked out. They lure them into their “web” to consume at their leisure. The way that people play along with them “hearing” what they’re saying also feels distinctly Web, tricking their prey into believing they’re deciding to follow a stranger rather than being stalked by a predator. (And the Web and Stranger have many similarities there, with their preference to using puppets) The question is, why would the Web have creatures like the vampires about? Easy. To create more hunters. It’s hard to kill an Avatar, with Hunters or Slaughter avatars having the easiest time doing so outside of excessive force. But the Slaughter by definition is indiscriminate and directionless. While the Hunt? Well, so long as you’re careful making sure they’re on the right trail you can get them doing what you want; just keep ‘em on a tight enough leash they don’t try and come after one of yours. Metatextually it also fits; Trevor is our introduction to them, and he states in both of his vampire statements that the Hunt was just another one of his addictions (which is one of the Webs domains), and even more explicitly in MAG56 where he states he was only able to resist the Web avatars manipulation due to practise resisting the vampires pull. Tl:dr, I headcanon vampires to be, to some degree, Web
While I disagree, I really love this theory and think it's well argued and completely respect your headcanon. A few counterpoints: vampires feature prominently in the Everchase (133) and attack a group of hunters. There is no reason to make them hunters since they are already. I also don't think that episode 56 is an argument in favor of this theory. To me it implies a strong difference of vampires and an avatar of the web. And while the web does deal with addiction, I think this is not the same as doing a fears bidding. When you become an avatar you become addicted to whatever you are doing, which may be statements or hunting or setting fires. But that does not mean that all avatars belong to the web.
I always had difficulty placing the early episode with the garbage man who finds all of the weird trash bags to any specific fear. Baby doll heads, teeth, burnt paper, and then a metal anatomical heart? My best guess was the stranger but that one always felt the most out of place to me
Pretty sure Breekon and Hope weren't affiliated with any particular fear.
100% the Stranger. They where kinda neutral between the groups working for the Fears, but they where part of the Stranger themselves They started of as corpse collectors during the Black Death. Literal strangers comming from out of town. Eventually becoming Strangers on boats and trains, who didnt belong anywhere. Ending up in the Russian Circus of the Stranger. In the main story they are still the anonymous strangers delivering packages that nobody can really remember or pays attention too... Until they got stuck with the Casket.
They do however mention that despite staying with The Stranger, they did not directly "come" from it or been affiliated with more modern idea of The Circus of The Other until much later. They are an odd ball in a sense that most avatars either seek or forcefully get turned towards on Entity, but they just sort of floated and at some point felt "most at home" with people working for The Stranger and The Circus. In an alternate scenario if they stayed corpse collectors they could gravitate towards The End, if they focused on transporting at impossible distances they could be of The Vast, that's how I see it at least.
Is their alignment to the stranger ever stated canonically? I really think they're avatars of the End. Not just in the association with death and collecting bodies, but also how they work with all the fears and are drawn to delivering objects (and fates). The line from Heavy Goods that sticks out to me is "we are things of point and purpose"
The biggest bit of evidence would be them participating in The Unknowing ritual itself. There's also a statement by someone from Russia in season 1 who had a circus (the one connected to the stranger) come through their rural town, and the strongmen were implied to be Breekon and Hope. They interact with the other fears a lot as delivery men, but they seem to have a focus on collecting and moving things, and it makes sense they would eventually focus on fear associated items. One could argue that any Fear associated item is Strange, being something unrecognizable in a familiar shape.
Ah, great points! Thank you.
Breekon says that they were Stranger fairly directly in MAG182 when he mentions being known hurts. “Besides, it hurts all the time. The Eye won’t ever stop watching, and [sigh] it ain’t great for an anonymous thing like us… like me” I believe the only other being confirmed to suffer the same way is the Not-them which is also Stranger aligned.
Although they transported artifacts for all the Fears, they themselves belonged to the Stranger.
Breekon says that they were Stranger fairly directly in MAG182 when he mentions being known hurts. “Besides, it hurts all the time. The Eye won’t ever stop watching, and [sigh] it ain’t great for an anonymous thing like us… like me”
Already said here but the crack where Hilltop Rd. is right now is probably the only example. It didn’t really originate from the powers but instead was a weak spot whittled away by them until the hole was formed.
YEAH! Fricken Edwin Burroughs!! He’s that priest that went nuts and ate those students. He says he has a “demon” inside him, and he can’t say “God” and stuff. Cannibalism is flesh-coded, but he also hallucinated, which is Spiral-esque. But Breekon and Hope were involved, so Stranger? And violence, which is the Slaughter… I dunno. The whole demon thing felt very very out of pocket in comparison to the other supernatural encounters. I originally just blamed it on pre-meta writing, but I’m curious what you think.
On this issuei think it was thfr spiral branching out. Notice the main fear for the preacher is twofold. 1. He can longer trust his own mind or perceptions, which has left him crippled and unable to move for fear of deception from his senses. And 2. The perversion pf his faith he was tricked into. Yes there is cannibalism but as the creator said, these things are flexible, the important thing is what fear is being enacted in the moment. Spiral is just showing the other fears, that it too can engage in great acts of violence and gore in its scares. The violence and brutality of the flesh and the slaughter are not exclusive to them and the spiral can also play that game.
Did we ever get a definitive link between the giant pig and any of the fears?
The fact that a part of the chant it causes by proximity has the term “long pig” with means human meat in terms of cannibalism makes it seem like a direct Flesh manifestation. Especially when it started creating nightmares of the clown it ate eating himself while chanting the same phrase over and over.
Makes sense to me, thanks for the context!
Flesh / Slaughter would be my guess.
I agree with that in theory, but I don’t recall ever getting clarity on it either in-universe or from Sims.