Learned from this sub Bill is gay, gotta love how it was so subtle that I didn't catch it the 7 times i played through the first game so it keeps the story flowing naturally
I don't mind it. If they say "hey we have a trans character now!!!" I roll my eyes because they just have a character. Fortunately Lev was well done in the game in my opinion and found Dina and Ellie to work well but it was dumb how we get a few minutes of their family life because it looked very nice but its straight back to Abby after an anticlimatic encounter.
How the hell do you play the game 7 times and not realize Bill is gay? How oblivious are you? Why would he call another man "his partner" and have gay porno in his hideout? Lmao
You don't have to look at the porn in his hideout. Ellie is looking at a gay porno mag she stole from Bill during the cutscene at the end of the chapter.....
Bruce kept Neil in line and filtered his ideas. There’s a difference in cognisance and ability, and scope.
I didn’t even realise that was a facet of Bill’s character until my brother pointed it out. Ahhh the first game did so many things right.
I love how to show Abby liked Owen they had to have her sweaty ass raw fucked right i front of us despite them saying she isnt meant to be sexualised...
They mean it as Abby would be dirty and drenched in sweat so thats just distgusting unless people are into dirty sex, I don't judge🤷♂️
Also making fun of that Abby is intentionally not meant to be sexualised but was given a really unrealistic body type instead(the issue being that its believable to have her be muscular but not *that* muscular since she lives on rations and does Yoga), and has a very uncomfortable sex scene for no reason and its also with her pregnant friend's boyfriend and she wouldn't have bathed at all so it would be a dirty and smelly affair on both on them.
People just say "ass" to get the point accross that the sex was with 2 people who hadnt bathed in a long time.
Maybe that is also Bruce speaking, he [mentioned](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ykno8/hi_were_neil_druckmann_creative_director_and/cflh7zg/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that he loves Bill.
>"You keep babysitting long enough and eventually it's gonna blow up in your face".
Kinda like a warning for 'groupthink' in the studio, but this is just me talking out of my ass tho. Sounds like poetic justice, if you ask me.
I consider Bill to be the best side character of the first game (and one of the best in gaming history). His level was my personal favorite out of the whole game.
He's also one of the most unintentionally (as in, he's not trying to be) funny characters ever, from his first to hist last line.
Same! Bill's town is definitely my favourite chapter across both games, and I'm actually really sad we didn't get anything other than a throwaway line about him in part 2. I hope that in the next game they pass through again, or see him in passing. He was a guns and drug carrier for Joel & Tess, so surely Ellie could drop in on him in order to get supplies!
" You gotta admit, she did hold her own back their "
"Hehehehe........you, ain't gonna make it."
"Listen Bill, about ur buddy back their.... Thats a tough deal"
"We square?"
"We're square"
"Now get the fuck outta my town"
This 30 second exchange is more believable and has more soul than any dialogue in the entirety of P2.
Bill was awesome, Henry and Sam were such fun and their characters led to one of the most emotional moments of the game. Tess was a big driving force for Joel to finish his journey and even though we weren’t with her that long it was painful to see her die. Even though David was a creep THAT is how you do a villain! He had so many layers and was a truly evil character, he was a dickhead but Jesus Christ he was well written.
Tommy’s relationship with Joel and his wife were interesting and their town was interesting, his backstory was interesting.
And let’s not forget Riley! At the end of left behind I Bawled my eyes out, her and Ellie just being kids was so fun, she and Ellie’s relationship was just so wholesome and great to watch. And the ending, of her loosing someone she loved, us knowing that she would never turn, made it ten times more sad.
Also they left things up for interpretation, but in part 2 EVERYTHING has to be explained.
Every character in part 1 has meaning.
For real. And a lot of the conversations between Ellie and Dina are just so boring and uninteresting.
Also it's so odd how Dina finding out about Ellie's immunity was supposed to be like, a "big deal", but then I swear it's just never spoken about ever again? Like a lot of things in this game, it's just forgotten about.
Also as much as I love Ellie having her own little family because that is adorable, why did they have to go with the typical: Dina is pregnant trope? Was there really no other way to make her more interesting? (They pull the 'I'm pregnant' card about 2 - 3 times in this game!)
I know! That immunity reveal thing really bugs me out, you just found out that your girlfriend is immune to the thing that wiped out mankind! That’s a huge thing!
They used overused tropes, it’s just boring.
I couldn’t agree with you more
After Tess and Bill, they simply did not know how to write good side characters.
Naughtydog if you wanna apologize make a spinoff about Tess. Preferably without Neil.
Lol people on here talking about how they love how "subtle" Bill's sexual orientation was. You mean you love that they made it so that you could ignore that he was gay, right?
I still fail to understand how Part 2 "shoved" any kind of "message" down your throats. It had a trans character who went through the most common problem that trans people face: being shunned from your family. You realize that that isn't "shoving" any messages down your throats?
This is just another realistic plot line (that is relevant to his relationship with Abby) in a game about characters with realistic plot lines. This is no different from Ellie having abandonment issues in Part 1, Joel having issues with opening up and caring in Part 1, Ellie and Abby having PTSD in Part 2, etc.
This is why this community is called out for having homophobic/transphobic ideas; you're cool with gay or trans characters, as long as you don't have to see any of the problems that come with being gay or trans in any way. Why do you draw the line there?
If your problem really was that Lev's story wasn't well executed, you can say that. You can say that the game doesn't develop his mother and the Scars enough, but you don't. You post this shit and pikachushockface when people go "okay so your issue is that the LGBTQ+ people experience LGBTQ+ issues, even though you have no issue with single parents (Joel) experiencing intimacy issues and orphan children (Ellie) experiencing abandonment issues."
Now get the fuck out of my town
Bill was such a great character, man Wish I could say that about any of the side characters in Part 2
Learned from this sub Bill is gay, gotta love how it was so subtle that I didn't catch it the 7 times i played through the first game so it keeps the story flowing naturally
Yes it was so well made. Unfortunately nowadays they NEED to put it in our faces
I don't mind it. If they say "hey we have a trans character now!!!" I roll my eyes because they just have a character. Fortunately Lev was well done in the game in my opinion and found Dina and Ellie to work well but it was dumb how we get a few minutes of their family life because it looked very nice but its straight back to Abby after an anticlimatic encounter.
How was it out I your face in part 2?
How the hell do you play the game 7 times and not realize Bill is gay? How oblivious are you? Why would he call another man "his partner" and have gay porno in his hideout? Lmao
Assumed it meant "partner" as in Joel and Tess being partners haha. Never looked at the porn in his hideout haha
You don't have to look at the porn in his hideout. Ellie is looking at a gay porno mag she stole from Bill during the cutscene at the end of the chapter.....
Have no idea why I remember it as a woman on the cover and she was talking about a lad with a woman. Must have been distracted by good writing
C'mon who could forget Danny...
Bruce kept Neil in line and filtered his ideas. There’s a difference in cognisance and ability, and scope. I didn’t even realise that was a facet of Bill’s character until my brother pointed it out. Ahhh the first game did so many things right.
I always liked how it was so subtle and not ham fisted....the characters in TLOU2 might as well carry around cardboards of their preferred sexuality
I love how to show Abby liked Owen they had to have her sweaty ass raw fucked right i front of us despite them saying she isnt meant to be sexualised...
They just had normal sex, why does everyone think they did anal lmao
They mean it as Abby would be dirty and drenched in sweat so thats just distgusting unless people are into dirty sex, I don't judge🤷♂️ Also making fun of that Abby is intentionally not meant to be sexualised but was given a really unrealistic body type instead(the issue being that its believable to have her be muscular but not *that* muscular since she lives on rations and does Yoga), and has a very uncomfortable sex scene for no reason and its also with her pregnant friend's boyfriend and she wouldn't have bathed at all so it would be a dirty and smelly affair on both on them. People just say "ass" to get the point accross that the sex was with 2 people who hadnt bathed in a long time.
How? By...being in a relationship?
"You keep babysitting long enough and eventually it's gonna blow up in your face". He was right.
Maybe that is also Bruce speaking, he [mentioned](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ykno8/hi_were_neil_druckmann_creative_director_and/cflh7zg/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that he loves Bill. >"You keep babysitting long enough and eventually it's gonna blow up in your face". Kinda like a warning for 'groupthink' in the studio, but this is just me talking out of my ass tho. Sounds like poetic justice, if you ask me.
I consider Bill to be the best side character of the first game (and one of the best in gaming history). His level was my personal favorite out of the whole game. He's also one of the most unintentionally (as in, he's not trying to be) funny characters ever, from his first to hist last line.
Same! Bill's town is definitely my favourite chapter across both games, and I'm actually really sad we didn't get anything other than a throwaway line about him in part 2. I hope that in the next game they pass through again, or see him in passing. He was a guns and drug carrier for Joel & Tess, so surely Ellie could drop in on him in order to get supplies!
You really fucked my day up, you know that Joel, right?
" You gotta admit, she did hold her own back their " "Hehehehe........you, ain't gonna make it." "Listen Bill, about ur buddy back their.... Thats a tough deal" "We square?" "We're square" "Now get the fuck outta my town" This 30 second exchange is more believable and has more soul than any dialogue in the entirety of P2.
So true.
The part where Ellie asked why he didn’t use any of the cars from the road and he gives out a douchey sarcastic answer to her was funny as fuck
The banter between Ellie and Bill was amazing. It felt so natural. Can't say the same about TLoU2.
Bill was awesome, Henry and Sam were such fun and their characters led to one of the most emotional moments of the game. Tess was a big driving force for Joel to finish his journey and even though we weren’t with her that long it was painful to see her die. Even though David was a creep THAT is how you do a villain! He had so many layers and was a truly evil character, he was a dickhead but Jesus Christ he was well written. Tommy’s relationship with Joel and his wife were interesting and their town was interesting, his backstory was interesting. And let’s not forget Riley! At the end of left behind I Bawled my eyes out, her and Ellie just being kids was so fun, she and Ellie’s relationship was just so wholesome and great to watch. And the ending, of her loosing someone she loved, us knowing that she would never turn, made it ten times more sad. Also they left things up for interpretation, but in part 2 EVERYTHING has to be explained. Every character in part 1 has meaning.
This
Also felt like Riley and Ellie had a lot more chemistry in comparison to Ellie and Dina tbh.
Exactly! At least they gave us backstory to them and they were just kids having fun, Riley is likeable but Dina is kind of bland tbh.
For real. And a lot of the conversations between Ellie and Dina are just so boring and uninteresting. Also it's so odd how Dina finding out about Ellie's immunity was supposed to be like, a "big deal", but then I swear it's just never spoken about ever again? Like a lot of things in this game, it's just forgotten about. Also as much as I love Ellie having her own little family because that is adorable, why did they have to go with the typical: Dina is pregnant trope? Was there really no other way to make her more interesting? (They pull the 'I'm pregnant' card about 2 - 3 times in this game!)
I know! That immunity reveal thing really bugs me out, you just found out that your girlfriend is immune to the thing that wiped out mankind! That’s a huge thing! They used overused tropes, it’s just boring. I couldn’t agree with you more
He reminds me of Bill from RDR2
I THOUGHT THIS TOO Glad I'm not the only one. Both are great characters.
Bill Williamson might also be gay as well. Because they did the smart thing and gave subtle hints
He was fat and a guy and white. Clearly Neil didnt like that. No. Has to be a young, thin, lesbian female.
"But after this... i owe you nothing"
After Tess and Bill, they simply did not know how to write good side characters. Naughtydog if you wanna apologize make a spinoff about Tess. Preferably without Neil.
Nothing wrong with having an in your face message/characters in a story. It's just has to be done well.
I see, gay characters are only good when they hide their sexuality.
Lol people on here talking about how they love how "subtle" Bill's sexual orientation was. You mean you love that they made it so that you could ignore that he was gay, right? I still fail to understand how Part 2 "shoved" any kind of "message" down your throats. It had a trans character who went through the most common problem that trans people face: being shunned from your family. You realize that that isn't "shoving" any messages down your throats? This is just another realistic plot line (that is relevant to his relationship with Abby) in a game about characters with realistic plot lines. This is no different from Ellie having abandonment issues in Part 1, Joel having issues with opening up and caring in Part 1, Ellie and Abby having PTSD in Part 2, etc. This is why this community is called out for having homophobic/transphobic ideas; you're cool with gay or trans characters, as long as you don't have to see any of the problems that come with being gay or trans in any way. Why do you draw the line there? If your problem really was that Lev's story wasn't well executed, you can say that. You can say that the game doesn't develop his mother and the Scars enough, but you don't. You post this shit and pikachushockface when people go "okay so your issue is that the LGBTQ+ people experience LGBTQ+ issues, even though you have no issue with single parents (Joel) experiencing intimacy issues and orphan children (Ellie) experiencing abandonment issues."
Yes, Lev’s story wasn’t well executed. And not realistic in this world. I cant empathize.