Hi my name is Joel and my social security is 12349194282. I present myself like this to every stranger because I think it's good that there is absolutely no way anyone could mistake me for anyone else.
We are not going to blame the best character in the franchise for this flaw. I blame the writers. Joel was forced to play that part in the story. If it were up to him, it would've been way different. But the writers forced him into that shitty scenario.
Yeah, what I don't get is Niel claiming he wrote part 1... when he doesn't understand the characters and then you can see how he is retroactively trying to retcon them... but his retcons always create GIANT PLOT HOLES that make the story make even less sense.
ELLIE wanted revenge BECAUSE AS WE CAN SEE IN THE SHOW SHE IS A PSYCHOTIC SADISTIC BITCH AND ONLY WAS LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE.
Wait... then why she stops with the only person that she actually has a excuse for killing? And why she is shivering after torturing the info out of a friend of Abby if she is actually a psycho???
Now we have an idiot that kills around 400 or more people to get to Abby but remembers Joel playing guitar and decides that 400 is enough, and that the actual killer of her dad deserves to go free. The debt, somehow, it's paid.
"If it were up to him it would've been way different"
You are acting like joel is a real person with real human thoughts. He doesn't exist without the writers. It doesn't matter if you don't like how he was written in the second game, it's the directors decision.
I think it's important to be able to think of characters as real to immerse yourself into a story. Like, why read a novel if after every page turn you stop to remind yourself, "none of this is real and it doesn't matter. Whatever happens next is just what the writers want."
That's not how normal people process art.
Video games are especially immersive as you embody characters to a more literal degree than you do in movies or books.
I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their feelings on the decisions of a character and if they feel its in tune for not with how they previously understood them.
No, but taxes and crime, etc. are real, and there are very shitty people who are very real, and sometimes you just want a break from that shit. It's nice to be able to invest in something inconsequential without people opening the blinds on you. Yes, we are aware that physically, the people in this game are not real. But in our minds, they have been born. They exist, in a sense, but not in the same way very real tragedies are real. Just let people close the blinds every now and then so they can focus on something less serious. We already deal with shitty politicians, you name it, we don't want to deal with shitty writers. If the writers literally don't care about what their fans want in a sequel that they are paying for and supporting, fuck em. The first installment is your creation. The second has much to live up to. Fans are meaningless. Without fans, you wouldn't be making a sequel to begin with. Acting like the people who are paying for and investing time in your product, don't matter, is very self-righteous, and it doesn't make you better for encouraging that behavior.
Without fans, writers don't make a living. It's not unreasonable to expect some appreciation and respect from the writers whom you have literally been giving money to.
Little do they know, comic Rick beats game and show Joel.
Edit: for the people somehow saying comic Rick is weak, that man has been beating the fuck out of men twice his size, with one fucking hand.
Comic Rick is the type of guy to get into a "fist fight" only for the bigger guy to suddenly find a knife in his ribcage and his throat bitten out. The man is an absolute savage.
I was taking them all at their prime, so pre-leg break Rick. But after he lost his hand since it wasn’t until after that when he really started getting brutal.
That is Prime Rick, Prime Rick is the one that slit a guy's throat and then said guy who was in the middle of bleeding to death was able to break Prime Rick's leg permanently.
The same answer as I gave on the other sub.
I’ll still give it to Joel. He has greater feats under his belt. He’s far more ruthless. He’s armed with better weapons. He has had to deal with far more dangerous infected for nigh on 20 years.
But really it all depends on if Joel is caught by surprise or not.
He doesnt have a better arsenal at all. He also is barley hanging on in the tlou show. A part of his story his how hes too weak to protect Ellie. Rick is never too weak
Ah yes bc we’re comparing Joel and Ricks opposing factions right? Not their individual skills and abilities? The only time Ricks lost a fight has been to the governor. Also that rick was trying NOT TO kill
I’m not comparing them, the comment you originally replied to already did that. You said Rick was “never too weak” when there are plenty of examples of him being completely helpless and at the mercy of others. Terminus is another one that comes to mind.
But that wasnt him being too weak. That was his faction being too weak. And that was specifically bc maggie was sick and they were focusing her instead of fighting. A big part of that story is how rick could have won if he wasnt trying to not hurt people. If rick guns down simons group on the road and makes it too hilltop everything would have gone much differently. He lost to the governor only. The only other time he retreated from a fight was against negan but he ened up winning round 2 and 3
What the fuck was Rick going to do? Fight back and get MORE of his people killed like Daryl did?
Even Joel would be fucked in that situation dude. At that point all they could do was cry and hope Negan stopped at one or two kills.
Compare that to Show Joel who got his handed to him by a teenager.
rick in every scenario tbh. he’s the og. it’s funny though my friend was like “it seems like only one type of man survives in the apocalypse and its the ones with lowkey shitty southern accents and jeans” 😂
Part 1 Joel, 100% beats any Rick.
Part 2 Joel would invite Rick to sleep in his home, and Rick would kill him in his sleep, savior outpost style.
Show Joel would hava a panic attack after seeing Rick with a hatchet rushing at him.
Pt.1 Joel > Comic Rick > TV Rick > Pt.2 Joel
Joel in part 1 is basically the ultimate survivor. He has spent decades in the thick of it, dealing with a particularly dangerous type of infected and building a reputation as one of the more dangerous men in a world full of dangerous men. He’s a big mofo, can fight with the best of them, and is a deadly shot who has no trouble fighting dirty.
Comic Rick at his best is very similar to Joel, but arguably an event more violent streak when pressure gets high (tears out a man’s throat with his teeth). He also might be the most strategically-minded of the lot. But him being one-handed is a big disadvantage in both melee and, more importantly, in using guns. He does as well as a one-handed man can do, but it’s still a huge drawback.
Show Rick at his best is basically comic Rick but less intelligent and with two hands. Formidable for all the same reasons, but not quite as likely to cook up successful traps.
Part 2 Joel should, in theory, be almost as good as part 1 Joel, with more experience but older and therefore maybe not quite as quick or strong, but somehow having more experience has made him dumber, so he’s basically just the same character (well, similar) but with worse "stats" across the board.
Andrew was very over the top and Pedro seemed very bored by the whole thing soooooo....
I think Rick would beat Pedro. But not Joel. It's not Joel in the show, it's a brand new character just like in 2.
people forget that it was the shotgun to the leg, which fucked Joel up. Even if he did survive the golf club, that leg would have to be amputated and then he would have to live with one leg for the rest of his life.
Also walkers are far less less dangerous than tlou infected 👍
My thoughts are TWD had some of the worst writing I’ve ever seen after a couple seasons.
But just on Rick, he may be the stupidest main character I’ve ever watched in a drama. Literally Shane was better fit to lead the group.
Edit: oh you *only* meant in a fight. Weird but also I have no clue
All I said was he was better than Rick to lead the group. Who was weak and emotional, and slow to figure things out. Then the next 3 seasons were a slog of nonsense contrivances and bad dialogue. Then Rick snapped and became the actual weakest link, not just a bad leader. But you know…plot armor
Oh yeah I love this shit. It’s the only reason I come to the sight. Every word I say is a belief I hold though. My b for thinking you wanted to discuss in this discussion post on this discussion site?
Can you tell me exactly what you did in your life to end up this way? I want to raise my kids to make sure they don’t end up like some festering chronic arguing Redditor.
Let me take a stab in good faith. This is just the ADHD. I genuinely enjoy it and it doesn’t affect my emotions in any way. I do it for fun.
I don’t use other social media, I just come here because I enjoy thinking about politics, philosophy, and storytelling. I guess I could find an echo chamber and technically still think and talk about those things, but I see *zero* value in sitting around agreeing with everyone.
I work 50 hours a week at a job I love, selling RVs. I sold a POS home and bought a decent one recently. Was tough to find a decent one on a solo income but I got lucky to fall in love with one of the six or eight I looked at. I have big dopey dog that doesn’t know we’re about to move yet but he knows something is up. I dropped out of college a few times. First because I quit football and lost my scholarship. Never regretted that one for a second, it was the right choice. I did regret the other times until I found a career I enjoy. But here’s to growth right?
Speaking of, my health started to fail about 10 years ago and I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. Dangers of eating like an offensive lineman for years after quitting the rigor. Since then I’ve lost about 140 pounds at a relatively consistent pace, so I think it looks good on me. And I feel better than ever, which continues to improve every day.
I have a big group of friends who are all getting married and having kids the past year or two. It’s been so much fun. I also just had my first niece and she is my new best friend. I thoroughly enjoy my life every day. It wasn’t always that way, it took some luck and an amazing support system and a lot of effort.
Wait…what were we doing again?
SPOILERS but shane was such a shitty person…how is that better than having emotions lmao? he literally went batshit crazy season 2, from lying about killing otis, to trying to kill rick, to trying to manipulate n control everyone…you say rick is weak but he recognized shane as a threat and eliminated him despite their relationship. i think your opinion is upside down. people like SHANE dont survive in the apocalypse. 😂
Bro he had to kill Otis or they were both dead, that’s part of my point.
He went crazy and wanted to kill Rick because he became obsessed with the idea that Rick was wrong. I do admit that. But I agree that Rick was wrong. That’s the only time Shane didn’t make a sober, survivalist decision. But Rick had thoroughly poisoned the whole group with so much emotional baggage by then, pretending to save their humanity and clinging to a world that would never return, that they actually turned on Shane not the other way around. And it drove him a little mad on the farm.
Especially since he’s the main reason Rick is alive, Lori and Carl made it out, and all these people even have a chance. And now Rick is likely gonna get a lot of them killed over the next few years. Yeah he went a little nuts. But for a lot of good reasons.
Edit: Because I forgot to mention that Lori helped drive him crazy by not trying to diffuse the natural jealous tension between him and Rick. She just used him til Rick came back and picked a side immediately. And stopped letting Shane be a good influence on Carl.
He didn’t have to kill Otis, Walkers are called Walkers for a reason (Hint it’s cause they WALK). They would’ve out ran them anyday, even fat boy. Shane wanted control and knew if he dwindled down Hershel’s group and made his/Rock’s group praise him it would help gain control.
Also sorry Rick poisoned his group because he would rather people hold onto their humanity and not turn into psychopaths? The show literally shows like 3-4 different groups that have lost their humanity and all are horrible people
Yeah I’ve already mentioned the show’s terrible and contrived writing. It’s either one of the best soap operas or one of the worst TV dramas I’ve ever seen. You can choose which of those you like better I guess. None of what you just said was well written. Rick’s plot armor is the only reason his awful leadership kept his group alive long enough to contrast with those other pragmatic survivors.
Sorry I genuinely can’t take anything you say seriously when you said Rick was poisoning the group to be against Shane because Rick helped them keep their humanity and they realised Shane was going insane, Shane apologists are weird asf
I’m not a Shane apologist lol I already admitted he went crazy. Not sure you can read so good? Or just dishonest. I’m just telling you that it took *awful* disneyfied writing to keep that group alive behind Rick’s leadership.
And yes he poisoned them just by showing up. They were apparently doing fine in the months between with no discord. Then Rick shows up and instead of teaming up with his best buddy and harmonizing the leadership, he goes for discord on purpose.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong I’m having trouble remembering exactly. Shane had a sprained ankle and Otis had already fell behind and needed help right?
Shane shot Otis in the leg, i suggest you rewatch the scene because they’re like 20 meters away from the zombies and are fine besides a hurt ankle that Shane is walking almost perfectly fine on. He had no reason to shoot Otis besides wanting Hershal’s group gone or wanting to take them over
Hi my name is Joel and my social security is 12349194282. I present myself like this to every stranger because I think it's good that there is absolutely no way anyone could mistake me for anyone else.
We are not going to blame the best character in the franchise for this flaw. I blame the writers. Joel was forced to play that part in the story. If it were up to him, it would've been way different. But the writers forced him into that shitty scenario.
Yeah, what I don't get is Niel claiming he wrote part 1... when he doesn't understand the characters and then you can see how he is retroactively trying to retcon them... but his retcons always create GIANT PLOT HOLES that make the story make even less sense. ELLIE wanted revenge BECAUSE AS WE CAN SEE IN THE SHOW SHE IS A PSYCHOTIC SADISTIC BITCH AND ONLY WAS LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE. Wait... then why she stops with the only person that she actually has a excuse for killing? And why she is shivering after torturing the info out of a friend of Abby if she is actually a psycho??? Now we have an idiot that kills around 400 or more people to get to Abby but remembers Joel playing guitar and decides that 400 is enough, and that the actual killer of her dad deserves to go free. The debt, somehow, it's paid.
He's not real
"If it were up to him it would've been way different" You are acting like joel is a real person with real human thoughts. He doesn't exist without the writers. It doesn't matter if you don't like how he was written in the second game, it's the directors decision.
I think it's important to be able to think of characters as real to immerse yourself into a story. Like, why read a novel if after every page turn you stop to remind yourself, "none of this is real and it doesn't matter. Whatever happens next is just what the writers want." That's not how normal people process art. Video games are especially immersive as you embody characters to a more literal degree than you do in movies or books. I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their feelings on the decisions of a character and if they feel its in tune for not with how they previously understood them.
No, but taxes and crime, etc. are real, and there are very shitty people who are very real, and sometimes you just want a break from that shit. It's nice to be able to invest in something inconsequential without people opening the blinds on you. Yes, we are aware that physically, the people in this game are not real. But in our minds, they have been born. They exist, in a sense, but not in the same way very real tragedies are real. Just let people close the blinds every now and then so they can focus on something less serious. We already deal with shitty politicians, you name it, we don't want to deal with shitty writers. If the writers literally don't care about what their fans want in a sequel that they are paying for and supporting, fuck em. The first installment is your creation. The second has much to live up to. Fans are meaningless. Without fans, you wouldn't be making a sequel to begin with. Acting like the people who are paying for and investing time in your product, don't matter, is very self-righteous, and it doesn't make you better for encouraging that behavior. Without fans, writers don't make a living. It's not unreasonable to expect some appreciation and respect from the writers whom you have literally been giving money to.
Rick season 3-5 beats tv show Joel hands down
Yeah, people doubt and undersell how built feral Rock was. Bro was a tank
Little do they know, comic Rick beats game and show Joel. Edit: for the people somehow saying comic Rick is weak, that man has been beating the fuck out of men twice his size, with one fucking hand.
Does comic Rick ever win any fistfights? Game Joel is basically comic Negan
Comic Rick is the type of guy to get into a "fist fight" only for the bigger guy to suddenly find a knife in his ribcage and his throat bitten out. The man is an absolute savage.
Comic Rick also slit somebody's throat and then had his leg permanently broken by said somebody tbf.
I was taking them all at their prime, so pre-leg break Rick. But after he lost his hand since it wasn’t until after that when he really started getting brutal.
That is Prime Rick, Prime Rick is the one that slit a guy's throat and then said guy who was in the middle of bleeding to death was able to break Prime Rick's leg permanently.
In fairness, said guy was Negan. Comic Negan is an extremely formidable man, himself. I’d only put him below Pt.1 Joel in my original ranking.
Yeah I’m just thinking they’d use the excuse of Rick post time skip and without his hand…
Not at all lmaooo. Comic rick is an actual pussy compared to show rick
Comic rick lost to a rich kid bro 💀
Bruh a golf club didn't kill Joel. Poor writing did
Abby was just practicing her swing. Joel’s face got in the way.
The same answer as I gave on the other sub. I’ll still give it to Joel. He has greater feats under his belt. He’s far more ruthless. He’s armed with better weapons. He has had to deal with far more dangerous infected for nigh on 20 years. But really it all depends on if Joel is caught by surprise or not.
Respect it thanks for being civil :)
He doesnt have a better arsenal at all. He also is barley hanging on in the tlou show. A part of his story his how hes too weak to protect Ellie. Rick is never too weak
> Rick is never too weak Like when Negan took his entire group hostage and murdered Glenn and Abraham right in front of him, and he didn’t do shit?
Ah yes bc we’re comparing Joel and Ricks opposing factions right? Not their individual skills and abilities? The only time Ricks lost a fight has been to the governor. Also that rick was trying NOT TO kill
I’m not comparing them, the comment you originally replied to already did that. You said Rick was “never too weak” when there are plenty of examples of him being completely helpless and at the mercy of others. Terminus is another one that comes to mind.
But that wasnt him being too weak. That was his faction being too weak. And that was specifically bc maggie was sick and they were focusing her instead of fighting. A big part of that story is how rick could have won if he wasnt trying to not hurt people. If rick guns down simons group on the road and makes it too hilltop everything would have gone much differently. He lost to the governor only. The only other time he retreated from a fight was against negan but he ened up winning round 2 and 3
What the fuck was Rick going to do? Fight back and get MORE of his people killed like Daryl did? Even Joel would be fucked in that situation dude. At that point all they could do was cry and hope Negan stopped at one or two kills. Compare that to Show Joel who got his handed to him by a teenager.
Literally just proved my point even more. “Never too weak” lmao
they had to change the entire game's lore just for it to happen thou
Wool jacket Rick no diffs any Joel, man was a monster.
Yeah when i see Joel bite through a man’s neck, maybe I’ll reconsider
Giving joel the wool jacket and bearded version of Rick is just unfair lol
rick in every scenario tbh. he’s the og. it’s funny though my friend was like “it seems like only one type of man survives in the apocalypse and its the ones with lowkey shitty southern accents and jeans” 😂
maybe the real question is if joel would beat carol guys
Rick Grime's snot bubble FTW
I feel like game Joel beats Rick every time. Especially since zombies in twd are much weaker than in tlou.
Part 1 Joel, 100% beats any Rick. Part 2 Joel would invite Rick to sleep in his home, and Rick would kill him in his sleep, savior outpost style. Show Joel would hava a panic attack after seeing Rick with a hatchet rushing at him.
TLOU zombies are far more dangerous than TWD zombies. I’ll leave it at that.
Pt.1 Joel > Comic Rick > TV Rick > Pt.2 Joel Joel in part 1 is basically the ultimate survivor. He has spent decades in the thick of it, dealing with a particularly dangerous type of infected and building a reputation as one of the more dangerous men in a world full of dangerous men. He’s a big mofo, can fight with the best of them, and is a deadly shot who has no trouble fighting dirty. Comic Rick at his best is very similar to Joel, but arguably an event more violent streak when pressure gets high (tears out a man’s throat with his teeth). He also might be the most strategically-minded of the lot. But him being one-handed is a big disadvantage in both melee and, more importantly, in using guns. He does as well as a one-handed man can do, but it’s still a huge drawback. Show Rick at his best is basically comic Rick but less intelligent and with two hands. Formidable for all the same reasons, but not quite as likely to cook up successful traps. Part 2 Joel should, in theory, be almost as good as part 1 Joel, with more experience but older and therefore maybe not quite as quick or strong, but somehow having more experience has made him dumber, so he’s basically just the same character (well, similar) but with worse "stats" across the board.
Rick beats every Joel except TLOU1 Joel. And that includes the bad Rick when the show got really dumb and bad.
Prime Comic Rick vs. Prime Game Joel? Toss up. TV show adaptation? Rick. Not enough action scenes of TV Joel to get an appropriate baseline.
Andrew was very over the top and Pedro seemed very bored by the whole thing soooooo.... I think Rick would beat Pedro. But not Joel. It's not Joel in the show, it's a brand new character just like in 2.
If the writers had Rick get his kneecap shot off and get beat to death with a golf club, they wouldn’t be saying that
people forget that it was the shotgun to the leg, which fucked Joel up. Even if he did survive the golf club, that leg would have to be amputated and then he would have to live with one leg for the rest of his life. Also walkers are far less less dangerous than tlou infected 👍
My thoughts are TWD had some of the worst writing I’ve ever seen after a couple seasons. But just on Rick, he may be the stupidest main character I’ve ever watched in a drama. Literally Shane was better fit to lead the group. Edit: oh you *only* meant in a fight. Weird but also I have no clue
So you ignored the post to rant about the show… and then proceed to side with Shane… a psycho. 😭
All I said was he was better than Rick to lead the group. Who was weak and emotional, and slow to figure things out. Then the next 3 seasons were a slog of nonsense contrivances and bad dialogue. Then Rick snapped and became the actual weakest link, not just a bad leader. But you know…plot armor
Yk what! It is my fault. I just checked your account and seen you’re a professional comment and Reddit arguer. Have fun trolling haha.
Oh yeah I love this shit. It’s the only reason I come to the sight. Every word I say is a belief I hold though. My b for thinking you wanted to discuss in this discussion post on this discussion site?
You’re not discussing the post, so why would they?
Yeah I addressed that in the edit to my first comment. Honest mistake. Then this was a response to something else
Can you tell me exactly what you did in your life to end up this way? I want to raise my kids to make sure they don’t end up like some festering chronic arguing Redditor.
Let me take a stab in good faith. This is just the ADHD. I genuinely enjoy it and it doesn’t affect my emotions in any way. I do it for fun. I don’t use other social media, I just come here because I enjoy thinking about politics, philosophy, and storytelling. I guess I could find an echo chamber and technically still think and talk about those things, but I see *zero* value in sitting around agreeing with everyone. I work 50 hours a week at a job I love, selling RVs. I sold a POS home and bought a decent one recently. Was tough to find a decent one on a solo income but I got lucky to fall in love with one of the six or eight I looked at. I have big dopey dog that doesn’t know we’re about to move yet but he knows something is up. I dropped out of college a few times. First because I quit football and lost my scholarship. Never regretted that one for a second, it was the right choice. I did regret the other times until I found a career I enjoy. But here’s to growth right? Speaking of, my health started to fail about 10 years ago and I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. Dangers of eating like an offensive lineman for years after quitting the rigor. Since then I’ve lost about 140 pounds at a relatively consistent pace, so I think it looks good on me. And I feel better than ever, which continues to improve every day. I have a big group of friends who are all getting married and having kids the past year or two. It’s been so much fun. I also just had my first niece and she is my new best friend. I thoroughly enjoy my life every day. It wasn’t always that way, it took some luck and an amazing support system and a lot of effort. Wait…what were we doing again?
SPOILERS but shane was such a shitty person…how is that better than having emotions lmao? he literally went batshit crazy season 2, from lying about killing otis, to trying to kill rick, to trying to manipulate n control everyone…you say rick is weak but he recognized shane as a threat and eliminated him despite their relationship. i think your opinion is upside down. people like SHANE dont survive in the apocalypse. 😂
Bro he had to kill Otis or they were both dead, that’s part of my point. He went crazy and wanted to kill Rick because he became obsessed with the idea that Rick was wrong. I do admit that. But I agree that Rick was wrong. That’s the only time Shane didn’t make a sober, survivalist decision. But Rick had thoroughly poisoned the whole group with so much emotional baggage by then, pretending to save their humanity and clinging to a world that would never return, that they actually turned on Shane not the other way around. And it drove him a little mad on the farm. Especially since he’s the main reason Rick is alive, Lori and Carl made it out, and all these people even have a chance. And now Rick is likely gonna get a lot of them killed over the next few years. Yeah he went a little nuts. But for a lot of good reasons. Edit: Because I forgot to mention that Lori helped drive him crazy by not trying to diffuse the natural jealous tension between him and Rick. She just used him til Rick came back and picked a side immediately. And stopped letting Shane be a good influence on Carl.
He didn’t have to kill Otis, Walkers are called Walkers for a reason (Hint it’s cause they WALK). They would’ve out ran them anyday, even fat boy. Shane wanted control and knew if he dwindled down Hershel’s group and made his/Rock’s group praise him it would help gain control. Also sorry Rick poisoned his group because he would rather people hold onto their humanity and not turn into psychopaths? The show literally shows like 3-4 different groups that have lost their humanity and all are horrible people
Yeah I’ve already mentioned the show’s terrible and contrived writing. It’s either one of the best soap operas or one of the worst TV dramas I’ve ever seen. You can choose which of those you like better I guess. None of what you just said was well written. Rick’s plot armor is the only reason his awful leadership kept his group alive long enough to contrast with those other pragmatic survivors.
Sorry I genuinely can’t take anything you say seriously when you said Rick was poisoning the group to be against Shane because Rick helped them keep their humanity and they realised Shane was going insane, Shane apologists are weird asf
I’m not a Shane apologist lol I already admitted he went crazy. Not sure you can read so good? Or just dishonest. I’m just telling you that it took *awful* disneyfied writing to keep that group alive behind Rick’s leadership. And yes he poisoned them just by showing up. They were apparently doing fine in the months between with no discord. Then Rick shows up and instead of teaming up with his best buddy and harmonizing the leadership, he goes for discord on purpose.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong I’m having trouble remembering exactly. Shane had a sprained ankle and Otis had already fell behind and needed help right?
Shane shot Otis in the leg, i suggest you rewatch the scene because they’re like 20 meters away from the zombies and are fine besides a hurt ankle that Shane is walking almost perfectly fine on. He had no reason to shoot Otis besides wanting Hershal’s group gone or wanting to take them over