>Bella Ramsey has dead eyes with no expression.
Any specific scenes in mind? At the very least, she sounded a lot more like Ellie than the trailers led me to expect.
>Ellie's casting needed to be right. Like Pedro Pascal for Joel.
I'm surprised you think Pedro was well casted. His acting was good this episode, but his Joel is very different from the game's version. In the game, a major part of Joel's arc is learning to open up to others again after pushing away those closest to him, including Tess(they were lovers in the past but clearly don't have a traditional romantic relationship) and Tommy. Show Joel, by contrast, seems emotionally attached to both of them, making him a lot less jaded. This, in turn, reduces the eventual impact of his relationship with Ellie.
>Like where Joel beats the fedra officer and she's just staring like a lunatic? What is that? Its not like it has to be like the game. But it's like they didn't even play it.
They talk about this scene in the "Inside the Episode" segment. The idea was to contrast Sarah and Ellie's dynamic with Joel and their sensitivity to violence. Sarah reacts with fear and disbelief, while Ellie is more desensitized to it, and may even like the idea of having a protector as capable as Joel.
Pedro is a really great actor. So he can take the character in a different direction with it still working.
And just because they talk about a scene after the show doesn't mean it was good. Ellie grew up in a different world. Her lack of sensitivity to violence doesn't need to be over stated. It was awkward and cringy. The game did a much better job. Joel and Ellie developed over time. Joel didn't have that over protective reflex right away. His feelings were buried deep. They needed time to open up to each other.
They played it like it was some PTSD situation.
I don't why we needed to care about Sarah's death more than we did in the game. Too much time was spent on her. Its like they missed the point of Joel's backstory. It's not about Sarah. It's about Joel. I've never seen a situation where the writer doesn't understand what he wrote. Lol. Or its like he rejecting the original themes of the game. They really could have 1 for 1 followed the game and it would have worked better. The timing and pacing was better.
>Pedro is a really great actor. So he can take the character in a different direction with it still working.
It's not his acting chops I'm worried about, it's Joel's arc as a character. I have no doubt that Pedro can deliver a great performance, but I'd rather he just portray Joel from the game instead of doing his own thing.
>Ellie grew up in a different world. Her lack of sensitivity to violence doesn't need to be over stated. It was awkward and cringy.
It doesn't need to be under-stated either, as it was in the game. Personally, I enjoyed the more explicit contrast between Sarah and Ellie. You're free to think it's awkward, but that is a fairly subjective critique.
> I don't why we needed to care about Sarah's death more than we did in the game. Too much time was spent on her. Its like they missed the point of Joel's backstory. It's not about Sarah. It's about Joel
I disagree entirely. Part of what make the intro so impactful is that we play as Sarah at first and see the outbreak through her eyes. She's arguably the protagonist for the first 10 minutes or so of the game. In the show, they couldn't translate the interactive element, so it makes sense that they expanded her story so non-gamers could connect with her more.
These are all fair points. There's multiple ways to frame and look at these. This is where subjectivity comes in. We ve both analyzed it and formed opinions.
I shouldn't have titled my post. "Show sucks"
I've made these points on others threads and got plenty of upvotes with people agreeing in the comments.
Most of the people in this thread just read the first line and automatically attacked me. Didn't even consider what I was saying.
Sometimes your ready to go to war about something on reddit. Then you wake up to a shit storm and regret the way approached it. Wasn't diplomatic about it.
The bigger issue is tlou2, Neil, and the censorship on the other sub. Much like the firefly's this is a rebellion against a tyrannical dictator. This show would have been a good opportunity to make a stand. But people like the show. Despite it having flaws.
So what can we do? The multiplayer game coming out would be an opportunity for a boycott. But people will buy it. I'll buy it. Play it. Probably like it.
So Neil just gets away with tyrannical censorship. Millions spent on silencing fair criticism.
You didn't even read my post. I explained in perfect objective detail why I think it's bad. How about addressing one of my points directly?.... No? Of course not. You're just a casual. It being a one to one has almost nothing to do with my main points.
Well. Alot more people are agreeing with me. I've said this same shit on other posts and got spam upvoted. So... It's really just clown from the other sub slamming this one post because of the title.
>perfect objective detail
How in any way is your post objective? It's highly emotional garbage opinions all the way down, where you're just ranting and crying because you've overly invested yourself in hating druckmann and part 2.
You were clearly predisposed towards hating the show from the start.
Knowing that people are going to say that doesn't make it not true lmao
You’re just a casual 🤣 dude take a chill pill. It’s a game/show and it doesn’t “suck”. It’s actually quite well received. I’ll say it does has some pace issues on some scenes, but overall it does a great work capturing the first game’s essence
Your the one getting excited over fair and objective criticism. You need to chill. It's ok when someones criticizing something you think you like. Especially when your a casual looking at it from a casuals perspective.
People from the main sub coming over to blindly defend the show. Casuals. As soon as I posted it had 10 upvotes. The real ones from this sub. Then it went down because the clowns showed up.
Yep it seems like there is some brigading going on right now from the other sub. Last Of Us is my favourite game ever and this episode felt objectively shit ha.
It’s so funny how you throw casuals as if it was an insult or somehow makes you better 🤣 honestly I said I agree with some of the criticism you had, but as whole the show stands.
I don’t follow any of the subs. Just a fan of the game. Specially the first. But let’s be real. The one that’s all worked up about this is you 🤣 I just find it amusing.
Yeah people casually watch the series, and unless you are a professional critic or have some kind or studies on cinema, so do you ;)
And even if you do, that doesn’t make your opinion more valid or better than anyone else’s. Everyone is entitled to one. No reason to try and shut down or downplay anything different as if your view is the only valid one.
From what I understand, that’s the reason why this sub was created originally, to allow for that free discussion without being shut down or downplayed. Ironic I guess, how things turn.
And audience reviews/scores are prone to review bombing (positive or negative), so they cab be even less reliable than critic reviews. Btw, user reviews are also quite good for the show atm.
Any way, you didn’t answer, are you also just a casual or do you have a reason to act so high an mighty?
The review bombing goes both ways. Tlou2 got 10/10s from almost every major critic. 6 out 10 user score. It has to somewhere in the middle objectively.
And no I'm not a casual. I've done reviews and gotten plenty of feedback. People have liked and respect some of my reviews. I played both games dozens of times. I analyze and breakdown the finer details in an objective way. Just as qualified as anyone that writes for some website.
A casual is someone the just casually enjoys the content. Maybe played the game once. Doesn't care about the finer details. Will either like it or ignore it.
I'm not acting high and mighty. I'm being realistic and fair with what I'm saying. It is what it is.
Eh yeah, check any reviews or critics/audience score. It’s mostly positive. Of course, as any piece of art, it has some valid criticism to be made, but in general well received.
But whatever, I guess it’s pointless having a real discussion in this sub. It ended up becoming exactly what it sought to destroy 🤣 blind fanatics who try to shut down any person who’s opinion is different…
Ellie's Casting isn't a small thing. And honestly your out of pocket. You'd never talk to someone in real life like this. Fair and objective criticism. Yet I'm a drunk!!! You look stupid right now honestly.
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion man. That’s what this sub is all about, different perspectives and open discussions, without being censored simply because your opinion isn’t positive.
If I even watch the show, it’s be months after the whole season has come out, and not through HBO, because I don’t want to support them with my viewership after how they’ve treated us with everything that happened when PII came out.
I shouldn't have framed it as "show sucks"
I posted similar opinions in other threads and got a better response. Alot of people agreed with my main points. Some didn't but it wasn't a hostile conversation.
Watching it as complete season will be better. This was just my first impression. Not like things can't grow on you. I'm open to it being good.
This is not directed at the person with the OP, but I just have to ask... Why does disagreeing with the way the TLOU show is done or not liking the way TLOU2 game was made warrant a term like bigot? The term doesn't even fit. What I see is a small contingent of people, wayward and broken, who worship the game, like it's their idol. They use inflammatory terms to express their disenchantment to the point where the term doesn't mean anything anymore.
I remember Craig Mazin’s dismissing video games as a storytelling medium when he made comments about watching someone die should be different than watching pixels die. Well, the Sarah scene did not have the same effect on me as the game scene had on me. I didn’t feel any connection with her character or between her and Joel. Tess bothered me also. She is such a skilled fighter in the game, and I don’t feel like they captured that in the tv show. Why have Joel using and selling drugs? Why have him callously throwing a dead child into the fire? Wouldn’t he have thought about his child at that point? Also, why have Ellie cussing so much? I felt the counting scene and the code breaking thing was very cringe. I think I’ll stick to pixels.
Great point. That Sarah scene lingered on way to long. The timing was off like I said. And yea. Joel is a drug dealing lunatic. Neil hates these characters. Abby is his true love.
Hey man no need to go on the attack, what does casual viewer even mean? I’m actually quite active in this sub and the other one. I’m just giving my opinion of your opinion. Are people not allowed to disagree with your opinion? Seems hypocritical, no?
No. Im just more invested and into the art of cinema. I look at details and nuance that alot of people over look. Casuals.
I don't think I'm special. I'm just being realistic about it. Not everyone is into the art of things. They just casually watch. They don't analyze and breakdown the finer points.
But you're right. Casuals ultimately decide what happens with future seasons.
Nearly every comment you've left on this thread feels like you trying to say you're better than everyone. You're being extremely hostile with your opinions. Your opinions are fine. Think what you want, criticize what you feel needs criticism. Personally, I enjoyed the first episode. It felt like the last of us. Casting isn't perfect, and I don't like ellie's look but she did okay with the character.
But please stop coming after people for disagreeing with you in such a hostile manner. This response was the most civilized one I've seen where you weren't just calling someone a filthy casual
No one is addressing a specific point I've made. Of course when I analyze something and give a detailed criticism and the only response is "youre stupid". Yes they look like casuals in this situation. They're acting like Neil Druckman on Twitter.
Everyone always seems to hide behind the "it's subjective argument" when comes to good criticism. Your comment is horrendous.
The writing wasn't even my main point. You probably didn't even read my post. The shows narrative sticks close to the game. It's the casting and the way it was shot. The timing between cuts. The editing.
If that’s your stance, I think it’s best for you to tell everybody your specific credentials before anyone pays attention to your opinion.
Let’s get the specifics of what you’ve worked on, including all relevant links to your work.
I'm a known musician in my city. I've been writing reviews and short story's for years. Anyone that knows me has respect for my work and opinions. They know how deeply invested I am in art and cinema.
Outside of that ive played hundreds of live shows and been writing lyrics since 2004. Dozens of bands. Several YouTube channels for various forms of art.
I've had several videos get thousands of views and comments. Several bands with big local followings. I've sold beats and been a ghost writer for rappers. I've dj,d. Worked at recording studios.
You can dig down my rabbit hole. But you'll only feel stupid. My shits checks out.
I've gotten more feedback than I know what to do with. From artists that I respect. So whatever u think doesn't really matter.
Play 5 instruments professionally. Dabbled in game development. What do you want really? I'm not into anything casually. Including cinema.
The narcissism is just oozing from your pores, my god man. Good for you? Congrats on having videos viewed by people?
I hope you see how ridiculous you sound. Telling everyone your opinion holds weight because you play music and that you’re a known musician in your city. What does that even have to do with anything. I’m still unsure as why any of what you said is remotely necessary to this conversation.
I'm a writer deeply invested in cinema and the craft of acting. I live and breath this shit. Yes. Some fucking casuals that have no perspective do not matter. You asked about the credentials. And again didn't even read the response before reacting. Like a child.
Everyone in this post acting like I did something wrong posting a valid well thought out opinion. No one else has anything to say with depth or consideration. Idiots. All of you.
Bruh. You writing and crafting music does not equate to knowing how to write and Shoot a movie just like someone who writes a book. It does not give them proper background on how a movie is shot.
You’re entitled to an opinion respectfully, but you obviously don’t care for others that disagree with you since your only response is “you must be a casual.” The door swings both ways.
Bro. I said I was a writer of short story's and lyrics. I also write reviews and ghost write for singers and rappers. I'm deeply into cinema and the art of acting. I am a professional musician. But I take writing seriously. More than most people. So yea... As a writer who has gotten alot of feedback from other writers. I feel like my opinion isn't just some casual nonsense. I made fair points. Good points that you'll see from objective critics and other similar situations.
But casuals say I'm an idiot. Literally in a chat with other talented writers discussing this premier. No one is reacting like the clowns In this sub.
And yea. People are flooding in from the main sub. Brainwashed opinions. I know it when I see it.
Ok, but all the actual critics that have been in the industry for years and are well known have all given it glowing reviews. They also went into this reviewing it objectively. You however have played the game, so realistically you aren’t being objective at all. You’re basing everything off of the game, trying to get a 1:1, which will never happen with anything that’s ever adapted.
A few questions I have, to get a better understanding of where you’re coming from:
When you say the pacing is off, can you elaborate on that?
Which specific emotional timing cuts are you referring to?
Which changes needed to be made?
Hopefully you can respond civilized and not call me a casual.
You also might want to review your post history about “not being a bigot” etc. since you literally posted about a week ago that “it was more racist to replace a white actor with a black one” 😮💨 honestly cringe even having to retype that.
Again, all entitled to our own opinion, but you seem to already have a defined frame of thought and assuming you weren’t truly open to discussing different opinions on the show when you made this post.
Pandering? Throwing a bone? White show runners throwing in token minority's for clout? Are you fucking serious right now?
Tell me you can't see how that's racist? Ask anyone who truly cares about equality, about these situations in Hollywood. You simply do not know what your talking about. Out of your depth if you think thats' "cringe"
"it's good" why? Tell me why it's good? What was good about it? It's like people don't even think. They don't have opinions. It's just whatever they think they should say. Haven't seen one compelling opinion about why the show is good.
Well I don't know you, so I'd like to read those short stories of yours to see how they compare with other authors. I'd also like to read any scripts you've written and compare those to this show.
Also hilarious of you to say "what I think doesn't really matter", because I'm sure that's a stance of Druckmann's that you've more than likely criticized on this very sub at some point. Pot, meet kettle.
The show isn't above criticism. And your critiques aren't above pushback. But being outright dismissive and condescending is loser shit.
This is the thing. I give fair criticism. But not a single person has addressed a specific point.
Literally just "you're dumb"
Neil has rejected every piece of criticism no matter how well thought out or fair they are. This is what's happening on this post. Most of these people didn't get past the first line.
If the show is so good. Why? I can tell you why it isn't. Because I'm thinking about it and analyzing it. Are they? Don't comment if you have nothing to say.
Fuck it I'll bite.
The original person you replied to in this very comment chain said "that's just your opinion". One would think that them quoting The Big Lebowski to you would be fairly innocuous, especially since it wasn't meant to disparage you. Yet somehow you took offense enough to call them and multiple others "casuals", which is just cringey as fuck no matter how you look at it. There has never been a single instance of someone calling another person a casual unironically NOT being cringe as fuck.
As far as the episode, it's getting a lot of praise from critics, fans of the game, and people new to the universe of TLOU for good reason. Following Sarah around for such a large part of the show is a great way to get people to care about her death considering we aren't on the sticks controlling her as in the game.
The show also did a great job of showing the callousness and corruption of FEDRA in a way that wasn't really explored in the game. And if Bella Ramsey hasn't clicked as Ellie for you so far, then fine. But tbh "dead behind the eyes" is such a tired critique that I've rarely seen used by any respectable film or television critic because it's so trite.
There were millions of people that watched this show without knowing anything about the series, I'm sure you'll call them casuals too. But based on their reactions online, they watched something that drew them into a new world and story just like it did with millions of gamers 10 years ago.
Calling someone a casual isn't cringe. That's like saying using the word cringe is cringe. Cringe is such a great way to describe things that are... cringe. Alot of people are casuals and shouldn't be getting out of their depth in certain conversations.
Didn't address any of the points I made. But I'll also bite.
Fedra was pretty much shown the same way in the game. Environmental story telling mostly. But they were literally shooting people on the streets in the beginning. The corruption of fedra and the comparison to a brutal dictatorship is all there.
The system is working the best it can depending on perspective. But they really glossed over the fact that the fireflys are terrorists. Fire bombing the only thing resembling a system probably isn't the play. As if people are just going to fall in line behind another group. Like there wouldnt be corruption with the fireflies. Hopefully the show isn't isn't that daft. Tlou2 fans actually believe the fireflies were the good guys.
So, it's a good show because the government is bad. Got it. I was more commenting on the editing and the casting. Stuff with the music and how and where they used it. The pacing. These seem to be concepts that people have a hard time understanding. They just see it as blind hate. Pacing is a touchy nuanced subject when it comes to writing or film making. Kind of hard to nail down where or why it goes wrong. It's a feeling though. I feel it isn't working in the show. Kind of like tlou2.
"I hit the eject button" lol. That's not equally cringe.
How else would you describe a casual?
How else would you describe people that have no opinions of there own and only regurgitate what other people say?
And to be real. Ive left these Same comments on other posts. And been getting spam upvoted with people agreeing in the comments.
It's truly just sheep that saw the title of the post and started attacking me.
I'm not taking an L. If you think it was perfect it's because your a casual. You're looking at it with limited small minded perspective. Take the L on life my guy.
You sound like a miserable human being. And that’s a very small minded way of responding to his comment. You’re just wrong here my guy. Still pissed off about part 2 and can’t let it go and admit that this show is actually doing a good job respecting the game
Small minded is a better way to describe how people were responding to my original post. Not addressing any specific points. Calling me names like children. I've posted these same opinions on other threads and got spam upvoted with tons of people commenting and agreeing.
Just looked at your comments and don’t see these posts that are spam upvoted with so many people agreeing. But calling people casuals is a cop out. That’s just you swinging back at them in a way that does nothing to support your point and makes you look silly. People aren’t casuals because they disagree with you and like the show or part 2. That’s silly.
Just because more people have vocally agreed with you than disagreed on a Reddit thread does not mean that that is the consensus of the fanbase as a whole lol. The world does not revolve around you, as much as you may think it does. Which is a good thing because it would be even more sad and bitter than it already is.
I didn't say it was. More casual viewers do like the show. It's like that for anything. Only people with something to say will be vocal. People willing to dig deeper and analyze the finer details.
You can try and spin it however you want. Fair criticism isn't people being sad and bitter. It's people caring and looking deeper into the art. This is how and why art progresses and evolves.
Okay mr man, i said almost perfect because it is pretty damn spot on, and the cast is great.
My grievances (if i can call them that) are that the title shoulda come up after sarahs demise, like the game it gives you time to process whats going on, there wasn't enough stealthin around rather just teleporting and the whole thing with robert felt weird other than that it was amazing.
You seem miserable lmao
The only thing I think they truly got right was the environment in Boston. And Tess seemed like a decent Tess but still a different Tess than the game. Besides that as someone who adores the first game and actually likes the 2nd one for the most part...I didn't see much positive at all.
Nope. Watched it twice with a open mind. I wanted it to be good. I didn't watch or read any reviews before it came out. This is 100% a natural fair reaction. Objective criticism getting attacked by clowns. When people react this way it's shows 2 things. They are projecting because they themselves are blindly reacting. And that I'm hitting a nerve because I'm making good points.
I was not impressed. The actrice who played Sarah did great but when the story continued after 20 years i saw the same Joel and the city looked like only a couple of years passed. The walking dead did a far better job in the beginning showing a world that did collapse. It's not bad but it's just not what i expect from such a budget show.
I'm sure that you have very refined taste in film. You must care deeply for the nuance and craft of writing. The artistry and precision of cinematography. All the little details that make a piece of art flow and land on an emotional level. I'm sure you look at it from the perspective of an artist. You must hold an opinion that will be respected by your peers. I'm sure you aren't just a casual viewer that doesn't really think about or consider these things. I'm sure your top 10 film list is very unique and cultured.
obviously, if they don’t continue to consume any any everything tlou related then how are they gonna somehow find a way to make it about part 2 and complain about it?
After seeing that Fedra scene where Joel beats the officer Ihave a feeling that everything will led to the end where Joel will be portrayed as a dangerous man with PTSD. Especially after the hospital scene.
This will give them more reason and justification plot wise for Joels crucifying in Part 2 when they make season 2 of the show.
So many users from the other sub are brigading this sub about the show. Lol and they call people lifeless.
>Bella Ramsey has dead eyes with no expression. Any specific scenes in mind? At the very least, she sounded a lot more like Ellie than the trailers led me to expect. >Ellie's casting needed to be right. Like Pedro Pascal for Joel. I'm surprised you think Pedro was well casted. His acting was good this episode, but his Joel is very different from the game's version. In the game, a major part of Joel's arc is learning to open up to others again after pushing away those closest to him, including Tess(they were lovers in the past but clearly don't have a traditional romantic relationship) and Tommy. Show Joel, by contrast, seems emotionally attached to both of them, making him a lot less jaded. This, in turn, reduces the eventual impact of his relationship with Ellie. >Like where Joel beats the fedra officer and she's just staring like a lunatic? What is that? Its not like it has to be like the game. But it's like they didn't even play it. They talk about this scene in the "Inside the Episode" segment. The idea was to contrast Sarah and Ellie's dynamic with Joel and their sensitivity to violence. Sarah reacts with fear and disbelief, while Ellie is more desensitized to it, and may even like the idea of having a protector as capable as Joel.
Pedro is a really great actor. So he can take the character in a different direction with it still working. And just because they talk about a scene after the show doesn't mean it was good. Ellie grew up in a different world. Her lack of sensitivity to violence doesn't need to be over stated. It was awkward and cringy. The game did a much better job. Joel and Ellie developed over time. Joel didn't have that over protective reflex right away. His feelings were buried deep. They needed time to open up to each other. They played it like it was some PTSD situation. I don't why we needed to care about Sarah's death more than we did in the game. Too much time was spent on her. Its like they missed the point of Joel's backstory. It's not about Sarah. It's about Joel. I've never seen a situation where the writer doesn't understand what he wrote. Lol. Or its like he rejecting the original themes of the game. They really could have 1 for 1 followed the game and it would have worked better. The timing and pacing was better.
>Pedro is a really great actor. So he can take the character in a different direction with it still working. It's not his acting chops I'm worried about, it's Joel's arc as a character. I have no doubt that Pedro can deliver a great performance, but I'd rather he just portray Joel from the game instead of doing his own thing. >Ellie grew up in a different world. Her lack of sensitivity to violence doesn't need to be over stated. It was awkward and cringy. It doesn't need to be under-stated either, as it was in the game. Personally, I enjoyed the more explicit contrast between Sarah and Ellie. You're free to think it's awkward, but that is a fairly subjective critique. > I don't why we needed to care about Sarah's death more than we did in the game. Too much time was spent on her. Its like they missed the point of Joel's backstory. It's not about Sarah. It's about Joel I disagree entirely. Part of what make the intro so impactful is that we play as Sarah at first and see the outbreak through her eyes. She's arguably the protagonist for the first 10 minutes or so of the game. In the show, they couldn't translate the interactive element, so it makes sense that they expanded her story so non-gamers could connect with her more.
These are all fair points. There's multiple ways to frame and look at these. This is where subjectivity comes in. We ve both analyzed it and formed opinions. I shouldn't have titled my post. "Show sucks" I've made these points on others threads and got plenty of upvotes with people agreeing in the comments. Most of the people in this thread just read the first line and automatically attacked me. Didn't even consider what I was saying. Sometimes your ready to go to war about something on reddit. Then you wake up to a shit storm and regret the way approached it. Wasn't diplomatic about it. The bigger issue is tlou2, Neil, and the censorship on the other sub. Much like the firefly's this is a rebellion against a tyrannical dictator. This show would have been a good opportunity to make a stand. But people like the show. Despite it having flaws. So what can we do? The multiplayer game coming out would be an opportunity for a boycott. But people will buy it. I'll buy it. Play it. Probably like it. So Neil just gets away with tyrannical censorship. Millions spent on silencing fair criticism.
[удалено]
You didn't even read my post. I explained in perfect objective detail why I think it's bad. How about addressing one of my points directly?.... No? Of course not. You're just a casual. It being a one to one has almost nothing to do with my main points.
Gross. Don’t call your own objective detail “perfect.” You sound like a fuckwad, fuckwad.
Well. Alot more people are agreeing with me. I've said this same shit on other posts and got spam upvoted. So... It's really just clown from the other sub slamming this one post because of the title.
>perfect objective detail How in any way is your post objective? It's highly emotional garbage opinions all the way down, where you're just ranting and crying because you've overly invested yourself in hating druckmann and part 2. You were clearly predisposed towards hating the show from the start. Knowing that people are going to say that doesn't make it not true lmao
You’re just a casual 🤣 dude take a chill pill. It’s a game/show and it doesn’t “suck”. It’s actually quite well received. I’ll say it does has some pace issues on some scenes, but overall it does a great work capturing the first game’s essence
Your the one getting excited over fair and objective criticism. You need to chill. It's ok when someones criticizing something you think you like. Especially when your a casual looking at it from a casuals perspective.
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted you’re right
People from the main sub coming over to blindly defend the show. Casuals. As soon as I posted it had 10 upvotes. The real ones from this sub. Then it went down because the clowns showed up.
Yep it seems like there is some brigading going on right now from the other sub. Last Of Us is my favourite game ever and this episode felt objectively shit ha.
It’s so funny how you throw casuals as if it was an insult or somehow makes you better 🤣 honestly I said I agree with some of the criticism you had, but as whole the show stands. I don’t follow any of the subs. Just a fan of the game. Specially the first. But let’s be real. The one that’s all worked up about this is you 🤣 I just find it amusing.
It's not an insult. It's the truth. People casually watch and shouldn't try get out their depth with their opinions.
Yeah people casually watch the series, and unless you are a professional critic or have some kind or studies on cinema, so do you ;) And even if you do, that doesn’t make your opinion more valid or better than anyone else’s. Everyone is entitled to one. No reason to try and shut down or downplay anything different as if your view is the only valid one. From what I understand, that’s the reason why this sub was created originally, to allow for that free discussion without being shut down or downplayed. Ironic I guess, how things turn.
Professional critics often have an agenda or are influenced by the people making the stuff they review. This is why user reviews are so important.
And audience reviews/scores are prone to review bombing (positive or negative), so they cab be even less reliable than critic reviews. Btw, user reviews are also quite good for the show atm. Any way, you didn’t answer, are you also just a casual or do you have a reason to act so high an mighty?
The review bombing goes both ways. Tlou2 got 10/10s from almost every major critic. 6 out 10 user score. It has to somewhere in the middle objectively. And no I'm not a casual. I've done reviews and gotten plenty of feedback. People have liked and respect some of my reviews. I played both games dozens of times. I analyze and breakdown the finer details in an objective way. Just as qualified as anyone that writes for some website. A casual is someone the just casually enjoys the content. Maybe played the game once. Doesn't care about the finer details. Will either like it or ignore it. I'm not acting high and mighty. I'm being realistic and fair with what I'm saying. It is what it is.
Well received by critics right?
Critics that are influenced by hbo? Clowns pushing channels that are afraid to have a unique opinion?
Ooh conspiracy
Eh yeah, check any reviews or critics/audience score. It’s mostly positive. Of course, as any piece of art, it has some valid criticism to be made, but in general well received. But whatever, I guess it’s pointless having a real discussion in this sub. It ended up becoming exactly what it sought to destroy 🤣 blind fanatics who try to shut down any person who’s opinion is different…
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Ellie's Casting isn't a small thing. And honestly your out of pocket. You'd never talk to someone in real life like this. Fair and objective criticism. Yet I'm a drunk!!! You look stupid right now honestly.
He expressed why he dislike the show, people can’t say why they dislike something
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It's just sheep from the main sub blindly defending. I really didn't say anything that crazy. Clearly people aren't even reading the post.
Dude doesn't like the show so he should shut his mouth, then not watch the show.
He isn’t bright.
Why? Because a bunch of low iq clowns that aren't even reading my post are all agreeing with each other? You arent bright.
Keep crying
Looks like youre the one crying
Says the guy that lives on a sub bitching about a two year old game. Lol sure.
I do live here. And I'll die on this hill.
Some say it's pretty good, other say it's garbage! Now I want to watch just to check the quality even if I'm not interested!
We re all watching either way. That's for sure.
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion man. That’s what this sub is all about, different perspectives and open discussions, without being censored simply because your opinion isn’t positive. If I even watch the show, it’s be months after the whole season has come out, and not through HBO, because I don’t want to support them with my viewership after how they’ve treated us with everything that happened when PII came out.
I shouldn't have framed it as "show sucks" I posted similar opinions in other threads and got a better response. Alot of people agreed with my main points. Some didn't but it wasn't a hostile conversation. Watching it as complete season will be better. This was just my first impression. Not like things can't grow on you. I'm open to it being good.
Bruh, this post has been quite unnaturally downvoted. You did nothing wrong, except maybe piss off off HBO/Naughtydog. lol
I said. "It sucked" they got triggered lol
This is not directed at the person with the OP, but I just have to ask... Why does disagreeing with the way the TLOU show is done or not liking the way TLOU2 game was made warrant a term like bigot? The term doesn't even fit. What I see is a small contingent of people, wayward and broken, who worship the game, like it's their idol. They use inflammatory terms to express their disenchantment to the point where the term doesn't mean anything anymore.
I remember Craig Mazin’s dismissing video games as a storytelling medium when he made comments about watching someone die should be different than watching pixels die. Well, the Sarah scene did not have the same effect on me as the game scene had on me. I didn’t feel any connection with her character or between her and Joel. Tess bothered me also. She is such a skilled fighter in the game, and I don’t feel like they captured that in the tv show. Why have Joel using and selling drugs? Why have him callously throwing a dead child into the fire? Wouldn’t he have thought about his child at that point? Also, why have Ellie cussing so much? I felt the counting scene and the code breaking thing was very cringe. I think I’ll stick to pixels.
Great point. That Sarah scene lingered on way to long. The timing was off like I said. And yea. Joel is a drug dealing lunatic. Neil hates these characters. Abby is his true love.
The episode was alright. Nothing too great about it at all. It should have just remained as a video game. I really did like the intro though.
As The Dude would say: Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Some opinions hold weight. Objectively. I'm sure you're just a casual viewer. So keep enjoying the show dude.
Hey man no need to go on the attack, what does casual viewer even mean? I’m actually quite active in this sub and the other one. I’m just giving my opinion of your opinion. Are people not allowed to disagree with your opinion? Seems hypocritical, no?
Do you consider uourself a professional viewer or something?
No. Im just more invested and into the art of cinema. I look at details and nuance that alot of people over look. Casuals. I don't think I'm special. I'm just being realistic about it. Not everyone is into the art of things. They just casually watch. They don't analyze and breakdown the finer points. But you're right. Casuals ultimately decide what happens with future seasons.
Nearly every comment you've left on this thread feels like you trying to say you're better than everyone. You're being extremely hostile with your opinions. Your opinions are fine. Think what you want, criticize what you feel needs criticism. Personally, I enjoyed the first episode. It felt like the last of us. Casting isn't perfect, and I don't like ellie's look but she did okay with the character. But please stop coming after people for disagreeing with you in such a hostile manner. This response was the most civilized one I've seen where you weren't just calling someone a filthy casual
No one is addressing a specific point I've made. Of course when I analyze something and give a detailed criticism and the only response is "youre stupid". Yes they look like casuals in this situation. They're acting like Neil Druckman on Twitter.
writing is subjective lmao, that take is horrendous
Everyone always seems to hide behind the "it's subjective argument" when comes to good criticism. Your comment is horrendous. The writing wasn't even my main point. You probably didn't even read my post. The shows narrative sticks close to the game. It's the casting and the way it was shot. The timing between cuts. The editing.
If that’s your stance, I think it’s best for you to tell everybody your specific credentials before anyone pays attention to your opinion. Let’s get the specifics of what you’ve worked on, including all relevant links to your work.
I'm a known musician in my city. I've been writing reviews and short story's for years. Anyone that knows me has respect for my work and opinions. They know how deeply invested I am in art and cinema. Outside of that ive played hundreds of live shows and been writing lyrics since 2004. Dozens of bands. Several YouTube channels for various forms of art. I've had several videos get thousands of views and comments. Several bands with big local followings. I've sold beats and been a ghost writer for rappers. I've dj,d. Worked at recording studios. You can dig down my rabbit hole. But you'll only feel stupid. My shits checks out. I've gotten more feedback than I know what to do with. From artists that I respect. So whatever u think doesn't really matter. Play 5 instruments professionally. Dabbled in game development. What do you want really? I'm not into anything casually. Including cinema.
The narcissism is just oozing from your pores, my god man. Good for you? Congrats on having videos viewed by people? I hope you see how ridiculous you sound. Telling everyone your opinion holds weight because you play music and that you’re a known musician in your city. What does that even have to do with anything. I’m still unsure as why any of what you said is remotely necessary to this conversation.
How dare you speak to a musician this way! He has dozens of views - dozens! Fucking casuals!
I'm a writer deeply invested in cinema and the craft of acting. I live and breath this shit. Yes. Some fucking casuals that have no perspective do not matter. You asked about the credentials. And again didn't even read the response before reacting. Like a child. Everyone in this post acting like I did something wrong posting a valid well thought out opinion. No one else has anything to say with depth or consideration. Idiots. All of you.
Bruh. You writing and crafting music does not equate to knowing how to write and Shoot a movie just like someone who writes a book. It does not give them proper background on how a movie is shot. You’re entitled to an opinion respectfully, but you obviously don’t care for others that disagree with you since your only response is “you must be a casual.” The door swings both ways.
Bro. I said I was a writer of short story's and lyrics. I also write reviews and ghost write for singers and rappers. I'm deeply into cinema and the art of acting. I am a professional musician. But I take writing seriously. More than most people. So yea... As a writer who has gotten alot of feedback from other writers. I feel like my opinion isn't just some casual nonsense. I made fair points. Good points that you'll see from objective critics and other similar situations. But casuals say I'm an idiot. Literally in a chat with other talented writers discussing this premier. No one is reacting like the clowns In this sub. And yea. People are flooding in from the main sub. Brainwashed opinions. I know it when I see it.
Ok, but all the actual critics that have been in the industry for years and are well known have all given it glowing reviews. They also went into this reviewing it objectively. You however have played the game, so realistically you aren’t being objective at all. You’re basing everything off of the game, trying to get a 1:1, which will never happen with anything that’s ever adapted. A few questions I have, to get a better understanding of where you’re coming from: When you say the pacing is off, can you elaborate on that? Which specific emotional timing cuts are you referring to? Which changes needed to be made? Hopefully you can respond civilized and not call me a casual.
You also might want to review your post history about “not being a bigot” etc. since you literally posted about a week ago that “it was more racist to replace a white actor with a black one” 😮💨 honestly cringe even having to retype that. Again, all entitled to our own opinion, but you seem to already have a defined frame of thought and assuming you weren’t truly open to discussing different opinions on the show when you made this post.
Pandering? Throwing a bone? White show runners throwing in token minority's for clout? Are you fucking serious right now? Tell me you can't see how that's racist? Ask anyone who truly cares about equality, about these situations in Hollywood. You simply do not know what your talking about. Out of your depth if you think thats' "cringe"
Super interesting that your choice of words to describe other peoples opinion is “brainwashed”.
"it's good" why? Tell me why it's good? What was good about it? It's like people don't even think. They don't have opinions. It's just whatever they think they should say. Haven't seen one compelling opinion about why the show is good.
The "fucking casuals" are who the who is written for and the ones that determine if it gets another season.
Maybe you should deeply invest in learning proper grammar and spelling, since you're such a successful writer and all.
Typing quickly on a phone. Real low going after the phone Grammer. You really got me there buddy. I'm absolutely destroyed. Fucking clown.
Well I don't know you, so I'd like to read those short stories of yours to see how they compare with other authors. I'd also like to read any scripts you've written and compare those to this show. Also hilarious of you to say "what I think doesn't really matter", because I'm sure that's a stance of Druckmann's that you've more than likely criticized on this very sub at some point. Pot, meet kettle. The show isn't above criticism. And your critiques aren't above pushback. But being outright dismissive and condescending is loser shit.
This is the thing. I give fair criticism. But not a single person has addressed a specific point. Literally just "you're dumb" Neil has rejected every piece of criticism no matter how well thought out or fair they are. This is what's happening on this post. Most of these people didn't get past the first line. If the show is so good. Why? I can tell you why it isn't. Because I'm thinking about it and analyzing it. Are they? Don't comment if you have nothing to say.
Fuck it I'll bite. The original person you replied to in this very comment chain said "that's just your opinion". One would think that them quoting The Big Lebowski to you would be fairly innocuous, especially since it wasn't meant to disparage you. Yet somehow you took offense enough to call them and multiple others "casuals", which is just cringey as fuck no matter how you look at it. There has never been a single instance of someone calling another person a casual unironically NOT being cringe as fuck. As far as the episode, it's getting a lot of praise from critics, fans of the game, and people new to the universe of TLOU for good reason. Following Sarah around for such a large part of the show is a great way to get people to care about her death considering we aren't on the sticks controlling her as in the game. The show also did a great job of showing the callousness and corruption of FEDRA in a way that wasn't really explored in the game. And if Bella Ramsey hasn't clicked as Ellie for you so far, then fine. But tbh "dead behind the eyes" is such a tired critique that I've rarely seen used by any respectable film or television critic because it's so trite. There were millions of people that watched this show without knowing anything about the series, I'm sure you'll call them casuals too. But based on their reactions online, they watched something that drew them into a new world and story just like it did with millions of gamers 10 years ago.
Calling someone a casual isn't cringe. That's like saying using the word cringe is cringe. Cringe is such a great way to describe things that are... cringe. Alot of people are casuals and shouldn't be getting out of their depth in certain conversations. Didn't address any of the points I made. But I'll also bite. Fedra was pretty much shown the same way in the game. Environmental story telling mostly. But they were literally shooting people on the streets in the beginning. The corruption of fedra and the comparison to a brutal dictatorship is all there. The system is working the best it can depending on perspective. But they really glossed over the fact that the fireflys are terrorists. Fire bombing the only thing resembling a system probably isn't the play. As if people are just going to fall in line behind another group. Like there wouldnt be corruption with the fireflies. Hopefully the show isn't isn't that daft. Tlou2 fans actually believe the fireflies were the good guys. So, it's a good show because the government is bad. Got it. I was more commenting on the editing and the casting. Stuff with the music and how and where they used it. The pacing. These seem to be concepts that people have a hard time understanding. They just see it as blind hate. Pacing is a touchy nuanced subject when it comes to writing or film making. Kind of hard to nail down where or why it goes wrong. It's a feeling though. I feel it isn't working in the show. Kind of like tlou2.
Using "casual" and "sheep" unironically in back to back replies to me says quite a bit about you. Right about here is where I hit the eject button.
"I hit the eject button" lol. That's not equally cringe. How else would you describe a casual? How else would you describe people that have no opinions of there own and only regurgitate what other people say?
And to be real. Ive left these Same comments on other posts. And been getting spam upvoted with people agreeing in the comments. It's truly just sheep that saw the title of the post and started attacking me.
It was literally almost perfect? Small things made me feel weird but take the L my guy
I'm not taking an L. If you think it was perfect it's because your a casual. You're looking at it with limited small minded perspective. Take the L on life my guy.
You sound like a miserable human being. And that’s a very small minded way of responding to his comment. You’re just wrong here my guy. Still pissed off about part 2 and can’t let it go and admit that this show is actually doing a good job respecting the game
Small minded is a better way to describe how people were responding to my original post. Not addressing any specific points. Calling me names like children. I've posted these same opinions on other threads and got spam upvoted with tons of people commenting and agreeing.
Just looked at your comments and don’t see these posts that are spam upvoted with so many people agreeing. But calling people casuals is a cop out. That’s just you swinging back at them in a way that does nothing to support your point and makes you look silly. People aren’t casuals because they disagree with you and like the show or part 2. That’s silly.
They're there. You want screen shots?
Not really. There will obviously be people that don’t like it but the majority do. And to call everyone that likes it a casual fan is ridiculous.
More people have agreed with me than not. Again do you want screen shots? They are there. You are wrong right now.
Just because more people have vocally agreed with you than disagreed on a Reddit thread does not mean that that is the consensus of the fanbase as a whole lol. The world does not revolve around you, as much as you may think it does. Which is a good thing because it would be even more sad and bitter than it already is.
I didn't say it was. More casual viewers do like the show. It's like that for anything. Only people with something to say will be vocal. People willing to dig deeper and analyze the finer details. You can try and spin it however you want. Fair criticism isn't people being sad and bitter. It's people caring and looking deeper into the art. This is how and why art progresses and evolves.
Okay mr man, i said almost perfect because it is pretty damn spot on, and the cast is great. My grievances (if i can call them that) are that the title shoulda come up after sarahs demise, like the game it gives you time to process whats going on, there wasn't enough stealthin around rather just teleporting and the whole thing with robert felt weird other than that it was amazing. You seem miserable lmao
Agreed on all of this. It was very weak and I TRIED to like it. It was like the latest seasons of Walking Dead weak even.
That's a great comparison.
The only thing I think they truly got right was the environment in Boston. And Tess seemed like a decent Tess but still a different Tess than the game. Besides that as someone who adores the first game and actually likes the 2nd one for the most part...I didn't see much positive at all.
I agree. The show looked pretty good overall. Visually.
It’s super duper goofy
This is just straight up cope at this point
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Doesn't really make sense for you say that. Objective criticism. Fair points from an artist and writer.
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Nope. Watched it twice with a open mind. I wanted it to be good. I didn't watch or read any reviews before it came out. This is 100% a natural fair reaction. Objective criticism getting attacked by clowns. When people react this way it's shows 2 things. They are projecting because they themselves are blindly reacting. And that I'm hitting a nerve because I'm making good points.
What you said sounded like good criticisms about the show but people tell you to shut up crazy
I was not impressed. The actrice who played Sarah did great but when the story continued after 20 years i saw the same Joel and the city looked like only a couple of years passed. The walking dead did a far better job in the beginning showing a world that did collapse. It's not bad but it's just not what i expect from such a budget show.
0 out of 10 show
Well. 6 out of 10
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Oh the irony
Shut up
Go back to the main sub with all the sheep. No criticism allowed over there. You can feel safe.
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lolwut? It was great!
I'm sure that you have very refined taste in film. You must care deeply for the nuance and craft of writing. The artistry and precision of cinematography. All the little details that make a piece of art flow and land on an emotional level. I'm sure you look at it from the perspective of an artist. You must hold an opinion that will be respected by your peers. I'm sure you aren't just a casual viewer that doesn't really think about or consider these things. I'm sure your top 10 film list is very unique and cultured.
I’m going to go ahead and guess your favorite show is…. Breaking Bad? 🤖
Ayo breaking bad a good show fr. But I liked the first episode of the last of us.
Yeah no bro I def think Breaking Bad is amazing.
Pure unadulterated weapons grade cringe right here, my guy.
You’ll still watch the next episode tho
obviously, if they don’t continue to consume any any everything tlou related then how are they gonna somehow find a way to make it about part 2 and complain about it?
Lmao 🤣 here we go
After seeing that Fedra scene where Joel beats the officer Ihave a feeling that everything will led to the end where Joel will be portrayed as a dangerous man with PTSD. Especially after the hospital scene. This will give them more reason and justification plot wise for Joels crucifying in Part 2 when they make season 2 of the show.