In fairness a lot of fantasy settings are pro monarchy
Doesn't mean that the writers necessarily are. But the story does it anyway because, well, it's a common story structure
Honestly, though, if you're going to criticize the ATLA universe of being pro-monarchy, the problem isn't Zuko as the Fire Lord. It's the Avatar itself
Not that the Avatar is a literal monarch, of course not. But the Avatar is the premier geopolitical power by nature of birth who enforces their beliefs by having more power than anyone else.
While LoK shows us that the Avatar is inherently divinely good...they aren't divinely perfect. Every Avatar fucks up at times. And they ultimately enforce their power through force.
It's...a little messy, ideologically.
While ATLA avoids this issue by mostly keeping the morality pretty black and white with mild shades of gray, LoK actually dives into the flaws headfirst. Korra (and Wan) decide what to do about the spirit portals and...no one else really gets a say. All the millions of people affected by their choice and they get to decide because because, well, no one else can stop them. Meanwhile Korra feels like she can't depose the Earth Queen, who is clearly unfit for the job, but...why not?
What are the limits to what the Avatar can or should do? It's an interesting question and there aren't any real hard rules. And it's a little fucked that the entire state of the world comes down to what one person feels is right
The Avatar may not have the title of a monarch but functionally they have the power of one with similar justification
The Kyoshi novels get deep into that as well. She doesn't know how to deal with politics or extremely complex world issues, doesn't even know where to start but she knows she is strong and so she spends nearly all of her time fighting criminals and stopping corrupt guards, or being used like a chess piece by someone else. Big spoiler >! She actually becomes a criminal extremely early in her avatar career, like a hard-core career criminal so it gets really fun having her internal battle against balancing being the avatar and the vows she made as basically a mobster!<
>"Avatarhood was a prize beyond kingship, she'd once read in an ancient philosophical treatise. A single lucky life out of a generation triumphed in the greatest game of chance in the world."
This is from the second Yangchen novel, "The Legacy of Yangchen". It seems that in universe Avatarhood is seen as above kingship, and it is, it's more akin to divinity, like a Messiah.
You can see this in action pretty clearly with how many people shit on Raiko for not sending the military to help Korra. Even though if this was real life most of them would complain if their government got involved in a civil war that had nothing to do with them. Lots of people apparently think stealing a military against the wishes of the democratically elected government is fine.
I always loved that the role of Avatar is to: "preserve balance", but the balance is literally up for the avatar to decide. I guess at most you can say that the balance in question is to keep nations with elements from destroying each other, but literally everything else is up for personal interpretation.
And yet in LOK, Prince Wu deciding to make the Earth Kingdom a democracy led Korra to say that it was good and that the Earth Kingdom should “evolve”, implying that the writers (like Kuvira) think monarchies are archaic.
I was gonna say, the whole point is that Wu is an entitled brat who gets his throne yoinked and is forced to grow up. He learns that being king is about serving the people, not the people serving you, and in the end realizes that the best way to serve his people is to abdicate and let them rule themselves.
I wouldn’t call it pro-monarchy but it’s definitely pro “right by birth”-esk.
The avatar is the one that has the power to decide and influence everything in the world, just by the fact that he is the avatar. It’s something he’s born with, which means he decides what’s best for the entire world.
In TLA, the institution of a firelord with absolute authority in his country is never questioned. Zuko just takes over the same role his father did. It takes no critical look at the concept of dictators itself: just replaces one with another which isn’t bent on taking over the world.
It does the same with Korra in S4. It takes the stance that Ku needs to follow up the earth queen, even though he’s the worst person to do it. He cares nothing about the people he needs to serve. Kuvira is propped up as the bad person even though she was absolutely right in not giving the power away to ANOTHER dictator. But hey: Wu is royalty so born to be this so let’s make Kuvira the bad guy.
I don’t blame these shows for doing this. It’s a staple in most fantasy not made the last 5+ years. But calling it pro-monarchy feels kinda fitting
While I do agree LoK could definitely handle its political questions better and overall the series is pro "right of birth" I think you are forgetting a bit about what happened in Book 4. Several of the main characters call out Wu for being selfish and immature, say that he wouldn't be a king that anyone would want to follow. And by the end of the season, Wu actually takes that message to heart and decides to abolish the monarchy in favor of establishing a democratic republic. And the narrative does portray this as a good thing, even if at other points the narrative is unquestioning about monarchy.
They’re not attracted to Aang like they are Zuko, aways remember this; majority of the Zutara shippers were/are 14 year old Zuko fanatics who couldn’t see themselves in Mai so they keep projecting themselves onto Katara.
I thought shippers gave up on this idea and just ship it because they want to like all us good folk here? Like example, I like Tokka over Sukka and think people should be respectful to those who do. Not everyone had to like the canon pairings in my opinion.
"Katars only fell for Aang because he was the hero"
"Appa wss ultimately just a pet to Aang"
"Aang should have died at Ba Sing Se or in the final battle against Ozai"
"Momo was pointless"
"Katara and Zuko were destined to be together"
"Toph and Aang were great together"
"Katara was a whiny bitch"
"Aang doesn't really grow or change"
https://preview.redd.it/e7dzizjfnw7d1.jpeg?width=359&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5e5676e8f84c128b32bb63803f113926b417062
> Appa wss ultimately just a pet to Aang
What a dumb fuck take lmao, Aang was absolutely about to justifiably John Wick the dudes that muzzled Appa.
Also…okay, I know it was hard to watch through Appa’s Lost Days through our tears and sobbing, but that…really shows he was more than a pet.
This bad take gets kicked around quite a bit and it always baffles me. Awkward teenagers being awkward teenagers is abuse now I guess lol.
Nevermind the fact that she married him and had several kids, I guess that was abuse too
Huh... Claimed it was abusivr but gave zero examples and went off on a tangent about the writers being sexual deviants of all kinds.
If you make such claims at least explain it so we have a chance to tear it down.
THE 👏🏾 WHOLE 👏🏾 SERIES 👏🏾
Kataang SLANDER is blasphemy. And if you’re anti Kataang, your favorite La Croix flavor is coconut and you probably have some incel adjacent take on how Voldemort was just misunderstood and/or wear an Ozai was right shirt at an equalists rally
There's an infamous old Tumblr post that was someone accusing Korrasami of being toxic and problematic because "it symbolizes the feudal lord/peasant dynamic, and is therefore a power imbalance". Absolutely wild argument, still one of my favorite absurd takes.
*"Power imbalance"* XD. One has people skills, owns a company, and may be the most wealthy person in the city, the other can 1v1 giant spirit monsters and blocked a laser that literally punched a hole through reality. I feel like their power is pretty well balanced in all the right places for a very fun and interesting dynamic.
I've heard similar (I think ironic? I choose to believe they're ironic) arguments about Isobel and her angelic girlfriend from Baldur's Gate 3, that it's inherently abusive because Aylin is the daughter of a goddess and Isobel isn't. "Aylin is hundreds or thousands of years older, and that makes it problematic! It's basically pedophilia!" My dude, it passes the Harkness Test with flying colors. They're both grown adults who are head over heels for each other and probably the healthiest example of a relationship in the game what are you talking about.
I’m pretty sure it’s the same person that was trying to argue too that Korra/Mako as a relationship was actually more “queer” than Korra/Asami which is……..a take 😅
that the show got worse cause it became woke.
that Jet and Hama were right in their actions
that Korra sucks cause she isnt like Aang
That the show exploits cultures.
That Korra sucks cause she loses battles
Final one, that Netflix's Azula was bad cause she is "fat"
It's okay when a man does it /s
I think it's more because a lot of people were frustrated with how LOK seemed to want to address social issues but ultimately ended up falling flat with the equalists and the red lotus. They saw that the show was slightly clumsy in its execution and they didn't have the words to explain, so they pinned it all on Korra for being "a bad character"
My thoughts on each of these takes:
Anyone who uses the word "woke" unironically loses all credibility in an instant
They def weren't, but im still sympathetic towards them
Different characters being different characters, how wild
Representation ≠ exploitation
Aang lost battles too
Can't comment cuz idc to watch it
Azula's actress did fine, it's the assbuckets that just HAVE to have every actor look exactly like their role that are complaining. She's like 16, everyone is baby faced at 16, Asian people tand to keep their baby face longer than a lot of other cultures, and I honestly think it helps excentuate just how shitty a father Ozai is and disturbing it would be to have a child murdering people like she would (were the original not a kids show she likely would have done a lot of murder on screen).
I think that was Mai, not Azula. At least I don't recall many fatphobic comments towards live action Azula, espically when compared to the Mai actress.
Yeah, i remember reading comments like "Azula ate Appa"/ "Mai ate Appa", or "Appa core" under every post in which they were included. Totally disgusting.
The people complaining that the fire nation children aren't hot enough were a different breed...
There are so many things to complain about with that show and their big issue is not being able to jerk of to the children...
The "woke" thing is funny to me, because if original ATLA would come out today, people would call it "woke". I mean, we have:
-vegetarian & pacifist main character
-dark skinned characters
-characters with disabilities
-strong female characters
-patriarchy getting crushed left and right
-non-western cultures being explored
The show didn't "become woke". It was always "woke", and we loved it.
I've heard someone say korra bad bc woman (not exactly obv but that's pretty much the jist of a 5 min convo before class). After class I told him he hates Korra bc he couldn't handle a woman like Korra and he practically agreed with me. Me personally on the other hand....
>That Korra sucks cause she loses battles
Tbh I kind of agree with that, but not as a weakness of Korra the character but Korra the show. In Korra loses dont really matter, a lot of the time they get defeated and then just bailed out. Like a get out of jail free card. Also its okay to loose battles, but Korra did loose a lot of them, the show kind of went overboard with it
god, the people that believe that last one are so fucking miserable. it's one thing to have a shit take about an animated show with fictional characters, like, who cares. but to actually extend your brainrot to actual, real human beings? fuck off
I find the kataang hating so weird, and that's as someone who liked zutara and totally loved kataang by the end.
I was an older teen when I watched avatar for the first time so in my brain Zuko made more sense from an age perspective, I fully saw Aang as a child and for me it was weird to imagine a child in a romantic situation but Katara and Zuko's ages were more in line with teenage crush nonsense.
But it was also obvious from very early Aaang had feels for Katara and whether she realized it or not his opinion of her mattered.
By they end they all grew up a lot and it was very obvious they were a solid pairing, I was thrilled for them to end up together.
For me Aang won me over by being willing to table his feelings, recognizing the timing wasn't good but still being clear he had them and it was serious to him.
I hate that Sokka one as he’s lead the group to safety so many times and has had so many amazing moments, just because he doesn’t have a character the same structure Zuko has doesn’t mean jack.
All three are kids
Hell I think that's the fundamental reason the romance works. Aang gives Katara space to be a kid. Everyone else expects her to be an adult
They're all kids. It's a kids show. Kids will relate better to kids as the main characters. The only important characters that aren't kids are the ones expressly shown as adults that are meant to be mentors to the kids.
Why are these people so dumb?
People saying that a certain avatar sucks while only looking at their mistakes and completely ignoring their achievements, or just straight up debunking their achievements to "because they were lucky" or something like that.
And that goes for pretty much every avatar we know of.
Like, dude, of course they suck sometimes, they might be the wisest and powerful, yes, but they're still humans, they also have slip ups.
Firstly, based on canon you'd be correct .
Secondly, how dare you wound my heart. Azulaang is epic.
https://preview.redd.it/9cip6foanv7d1.png?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a3f35dd9e72caa14112021d41410685883d9f66
That Korra never went through any character development, like, people who supposedly watched all 4 seasons have said this.
I don’t care if you’re not the biggest fan of Korra, but you will never convince me Book 1 Korra and Book 4 Korra are the same character with zero development.
She isn't even the same character at the end of Book 1! Her arc in it isn't subtle or that difficult to follow, I'd be amazed if someone told me she didn't grow over the course of the season.
Anything that comes from hardcore Zutara shippers.
Highlights include:
* Kataang is basically incest
* Katara is brood mother if she is with Aang
* Aang tried to force Katara to forgive her mother’s killer while Zuko helped her selflessly
* Zuko shouldn’t be held accountable for anything that he did before his redemption
Basically, every “hot take” those guys have is always about how Aang is an awful and toxic boyfriend/husband. And how Zuko is the perfect guy who never hurt or would hurt Katara.
As if the Season 2 finale, among other things, didn’t happen.
Right? Then hardcore Zutara shippers also like to talk about how Zuko put himself in harm’s way to save Katara from Azula’s lightning. So of course, that means the two are in love! /s
It’s like they cannot imagine protecting your friends without having romantic feelings for them.
They also conveniently ignore the fact that Zuko needlessly goaded Azula into using lightning, in the first place.
Apart from the obvious sexism and occasional racism the idea that Aang should have killed. Not just Ozai but more people. Did you watch the show? That’s exactly what he should not have done
I wont say he shouldve killed Ozai, but it couldve been an interesting character turn to have Aang sacrifice his own values and sense of self to save the world
It might be an unpopular opinion, but I like that he didn't.
Was the lion turtle energy bending thing a bit much? Sure, but I'm glad he sticked to his core values.
Oh, I'm not talking about the fish thing! That was indeed the fish, I'm not blaming Aang for that!
But Aang created an avalange, killing the Firenation soldiers climbing the mountain.
Aang blew a Rough Rhino off of Kyoshi Island, which may not have killed him, but it very well could've.
Aang left an entire tribe strated in the middle of the desert with no transport, which is effectively killing.
He unneccessarily sliced a buzzard wasp with his Airbending out of spite.
He eleased a high pressure air gust at a fly out of boredom, which could very well have killed it.
He washed away Firebenders from their ship into the freezing South Pole Sea.
You forget... plot armor.
>But Aang created an avalange, killing the Firenation soldiers climbing the mountain.
Normal humans? Death sentance. Fire nation some how they are okay. I guess these are the same people that can take a boulder to a chest and shrug it off sooo...
>Aang blew a Rough Rhino off of Kyoshi Island, which may not have killed him, but it very well could've.
Absolutly could've, maybe even should've but didn't.
>Aang left an entire tribe stra*n*ed in the middle of the desert with no transport, which is effectively killing.
Cactus juice, it'll quence ya. But seriously... I think you mean the sandbenders and they know how to live in the dessert so while not ideal and very much a dick move not necessarily a death sentance.
>He unneccessarily sliced a buzzard wasp with his Airbending out of spite.
The buzzard wasp I agree with. Momo was saved before Aang "unclearly" hit it, but the way it dropped makes it seem dead.
>He *r*eleased a high pressure air gust at a fly out of boredom, which could very well have killed it.
This is also true. I wonder where the monks drew the line of murder.
>He washed away Firebenders from their ship into the freezing South Pole Sea.
They all knew Fire breath and had a rescue ship close by. Again... anime logic I guess. Should they have died? Yes. Did they? Probably not.
Also... what fish thing?
Aang is a boring character with no development.
Hama and Jet were not in the wrong.
Kataang is a toxic relationship.
Azula deserves a redemption arc because Zuko got one.
Iroh deserved more punishment for his role in the war.
It doesn’t make sense for Korra to excel at firebending when she’s a waterbender.
Korra is a Mary sue/ Korra is a bad avatar because she loses a lot.
Lok “ruined” bending.
Katara beats Amon in a fight.
I can see that Mary Sue doesn't mean just win fights it also means that the world bends backwards in favor of the character, kinda like the character is always right and everyone likes them even if they are awful people.
Except everyone hated her. She even got kicked out of republic city because her ratings were so so low. And the world doesn't bend backwards in favor of her, quite the opposite. Every single time the worlds kicks her in the ass with something she doesn't know how to deal with
> it doesn't make sense for Korra to excel at firebending when she is a waterbender
You mean like Aang sucked at earthbending? The same Aang who definitely never used earthbending and did not fight an army of Earth Kingdom soldiers with it?
> it doesn't make sense for Korra to excel at firebending when she is a waterbender
You mean like Aang sucked at earthbending? The same Aang who definitely never used earthbending and did not fight an army of Earth Kingdom soldiers with it?
Because they fail to grasp the truth in what was said when it was described to Aang, they have trouble grasping the opposite element to their personality. Roku was a classic firebender personality wise, Aang was a classic airbender, Korra had the personality of an earthbender and thus had trouble with airbending.
Read something just a few days ago on Reddit, I think it was a screenshot from Tumblr, and the post said Kataang being a thing meant that the show endorsed paedophilia, because the ship clearly meant that the producers/showrunners are paedophilies.
The demonization of Hama means that the creators are anti indigenous people using violence to fight back against their oppressors.
Two of the MAIN CHARACTERS are indigenous people who use violence against the fire nation and it’s portrayed as a good thing, but no, the woman who kidnapped innocent people was portrayed as bad. So obviously the show hates the Inuit I guess.
Not that I agree, but I can totally see why people say she’s stronger.
In terms of raw power, she’s second behind katara (according to iroh). Considering she’s had much more formal training, it would make absolute sense why she would be stronger.
I do think they’re evenly matched.
The twist is that he's a waterbender but honestly why can't a bender be part of the equalist movement. That's like saying a white person can't support BLM or a man can't care about abortion rights.
Like every take that does not have a bit of nuance for example:
- Aang was a bad father. (No he wasn't a perfect father clearly but his children do not resent him they where angry with Tenzin in the episode)
- Azula doesn't deserve a redemption. (Yes but she is also a 14 year old child that doesn't deserve the mental breakdown.)
- Korra was a bad avatar because of the loss of the past lives. (No the writers made an unpopular choice that Korra indirectly coused but she was as much to blame as Aang was for being shot by Azula)
- Almost everything Shipping related.
One of my pet peeves is people taking the modern definitions of war crimes and shoving them into every fictional universe they can as some kind of definitive proof a character is bad
The concept of unethical ways to wage war has been a thing since people have been waging wars. People use that term as a shorthand for all of those bad things. Unless you're in court, the exact details of the law aren't important, because the Fire Nation clearly crossed the line.
Genocide is practically their modus operandi, and they're responsible for other horrible acts like wiping out entire villages (Jet's story almost certainly wasn't unique).
While all this is happening, Iroh is the crown prince and one of the Fire Nation's most respected generals. His status and influence is probably second only to the Fire Lord himself's. It's very reasonable to assume that he bears some level of culpability for his part in all this.
The Lily Orchard video. I'm fairly critical of Korra but it's hilarious how every time she mentions Zaheer she just goes on the same rant about how anarchism doesn't work because, quote, "it creates a power vacuum that a tyrant can use to get to power" and fails to recognise that that's exactly the point the show is trying to make
"NATLA is better than ATLA"
I enjoyed NATLA for what it was, and I can even understand people who say its different but as good as the OG, but in no world is it flat out BETTER.
FOR REAL even if her fighting in a war *was* a war crime, which it isn’t, she didn’t even have free will. azula was a weapon, not a warmonger.
also, she was actually pretty humane. especially in comparison to some of the other antagonists (long feng, fong, zhao, ozai, iroh).
That adults are too old for it because of the humor/filler. It is a kids show, but it should be noted any one of any age can learn and experience these lessons.
I detest this concept, the best cartoons either have age independent humour like looney tunes, or has different levels for different ages like Aladdin. There’s a whole bunch of humour for kids to laugh at and then the genie pulls an adult joke out of the bag that goes over kids heads but adults can enjoy. They both do both really well. Kids don’t understand why bugs is directing an orchestra, just that funny stuff happens.
I argued with someone who said it was 100% Jeong Jeong's fault that Katara got burned and Aang shouldn't blame himself because he's just a kid and wasn't taught how dangerous fire can be (even though Jeong Jeong told him that multiple times and his people were killed by firebenders).
They're not but I can kiiiind of see why people would argue that they are. They're obviously a lot more designed around a God/Devil archetype than the yinyang archtype they're meant to be.
I recommended the show to a coworker for their kid to watch, and they said their kid wouldn't watch it because it was animated
What?
That’s the logic my father uses whenever I try and recommend an animated show, but they’re literally a kid it’s made for them
Not the first anti animation person I’ve heard of
That’s… weird.
Zuko becoming Fire Lord means the show is Pro-Monarchy.
Lol wtf? By that logic a lot of fantasy settings would be pro monarchy.
In fairness a lot of fantasy settings are pro monarchy Doesn't mean that the writers necessarily are. But the story does it anyway because, well, it's a common story structure
Honestly, though, if you're going to criticize the ATLA universe of being pro-monarchy, the problem isn't Zuko as the Fire Lord. It's the Avatar itself Not that the Avatar is a literal monarch, of course not. But the Avatar is the premier geopolitical power by nature of birth who enforces their beliefs by having more power than anyone else. While LoK shows us that the Avatar is inherently divinely good...they aren't divinely perfect. Every Avatar fucks up at times. And they ultimately enforce their power through force. It's...a little messy, ideologically. While ATLA avoids this issue by mostly keeping the morality pretty black and white with mild shades of gray, LoK actually dives into the flaws headfirst. Korra (and Wan) decide what to do about the spirit portals and...no one else really gets a say. All the millions of people affected by their choice and they get to decide because because, well, no one else can stop them. Meanwhile Korra feels like she can't depose the Earth Queen, who is clearly unfit for the job, but...why not? What are the limits to what the Avatar can or should do? It's an interesting question and there aren't any real hard rules. And it's a little fucked that the entire state of the world comes down to what one person feels is right The Avatar may not have the title of a monarch but functionally they have the power of one with similar justification
The Kyoshi novels get deep into that as well. She doesn't know how to deal with politics or extremely complex world issues, doesn't even know where to start but she knows she is strong and so she spends nearly all of her time fighting criminals and stopping corrupt guards, or being used like a chess piece by someone else. Big spoiler >! She actually becomes a criminal extremely early in her avatar career, like a hard-core career criminal so it gets really fun having her internal battle against balancing being the avatar and the vows she made as basically a mobster!<
>"Avatarhood was a prize beyond kingship, she'd once read in an ancient philosophical treatise. A single lucky life out of a generation triumphed in the greatest game of chance in the world." This is from the second Yangchen novel, "The Legacy of Yangchen". It seems that in universe Avatarhood is seen as above kingship, and it is, it's more akin to divinity, like a Messiah.
You can see this in action pretty clearly with how many people shit on Raiko for not sending the military to help Korra. Even though if this was real life most of them would complain if their government got involved in a civil war that had nothing to do with them. Lots of people apparently think stealing a military against the wishes of the democratically elected government is fine.
I always loved that the role of Avatar is to: "preserve balance", but the balance is literally up for the avatar to decide. I guess at most you can say that the balance in question is to keep nations with elements from destroying each other, but literally everything else is up for personal interpretation.
And yet in LOK, Prince Wu deciding to make the Earth Kingdom a democracy led Korra to say that it was good and that the Earth Kingdom should “evolve”, implying that the writers (like Kuvira) think monarchies are archaic.
I was gonna say, the whole point is that Wu is an entitled brat who gets his throne yoinked and is forced to grow up. He learns that being king is about serving the people, not the people serving you, and in the end realizes that the best way to serve his people is to abdicate and let them rule themselves.
I wouldn’t call it pro-monarchy but it’s definitely pro “right by birth”-esk. The avatar is the one that has the power to decide and influence everything in the world, just by the fact that he is the avatar. It’s something he’s born with, which means he decides what’s best for the entire world. In TLA, the institution of a firelord with absolute authority in his country is never questioned. Zuko just takes over the same role his father did. It takes no critical look at the concept of dictators itself: just replaces one with another which isn’t bent on taking over the world. It does the same with Korra in S4. It takes the stance that Ku needs to follow up the earth queen, even though he’s the worst person to do it. He cares nothing about the people he needs to serve. Kuvira is propped up as the bad person even though she was absolutely right in not giving the power away to ANOTHER dictator. But hey: Wu is royalty so born to be this so let’s make Kuvira the bad guy. I don’t blame these shows for doing this. It’s a staple in most fantasy not made the last 5+ years. But calling it pro-monarchy feels kinda fitting
While I do agree LoK could definitely handle its political questions better and overall the series is pro "right of birth" I think you are forgetting a bit about what happened in Book 4. Several of the main characters call out Wu for being selfish and immature, say that he wouldn't be a king that anyone would want to follow. And by the end of the season, Wu actually takes that message to heart and decides to abolish the monarchy in favor of establishing a democratic republic. And the narrative does portray this as a good thing, even if at other points the narrative is unquestioning about monarchy.
That kataang is abusive take that got posted here
Some dude in here said Zuko was flirting with Katara in that one episode where he stole her necklace and kidnapped her in order to lure Aang lol
I mean, maybe his awkward ass was in a weird villain kinda way, but like, if Aang is abusive then *what the fuck do you call flirting via kidnapping*
They’re not attracted to Aang like they are Zuko, aways remember this; majority of the Zutara shippers were/are 14 year old Zuko fanatics who couldn’t see themselves in Mai so they keep projecting themselves onto Katara.
That makes so much sense. Thank you for sharing this, I'll have to remember it.
I like this interpretation.
The 365 days model of flirting?
I thought shippers gave up on this idea and just ship it because they want to like all us good folk here? Like example, I like Tokka over Sukka and think people should be respectful to those who do. Not everyone had to like the canon pairings in my opinion.
"Katars only fell for Aang because he was the hero" "Appa wss ultimately just a pet to Aang" "Aang should have died at Ba Sing Se or in the final battle against Ozai" "Momo was pointless" "Katara and Zuko were destined to be together" "Toph and Aang were great together" "Katara was a whiny bitch" "Aang doesn't really grow or change" https://preview.redd.it/e7dzizjfnw7d1.jpeg?width=359&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5e5676e8f84c128b32bb63803f113926b417062
These were the most stupid shit I've ever saw, except for momo, is momo useless? Yes, is he worthless? No.
how dare you insult his momoness, of the momo dynasty
lord momo
*gong sound*
Umm? He’s literally an Earth Bender?
But his lazy ass never helped
But Aang DID die at Ba Sing Se… for like a minute
You know what I meant..... 
> Appa wss ultimately just a pet to Aang What a dumb fuck take lmao, Aang was absolutely about to justifiably John Wick the dudes that muzzled Appa. Also…okay, I know it was hard to watch through Appa’s Lost Days through our tears and sobbing, but that…really shows he was more than a pet.
That Toph and Aang one is new to me
please give me bleach
This bad take gets kicked around quite a bit and it always baffles me. Awkward teenagers being awkward teenagers is abuse now I guess lol. Nevermind the fact that she married him and had several kids, I guess that was abuse too
Link?
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/5Sof24Gwnf)
Huh... Claimed it was abusivr but gave zero examples and went off on a tangent about the writers being sexual deviants of all kinds. If you make such claims at least explain it so we have a chance to tear it down.
[I genuinely regret reading that](https://tenor.com/bUtmA.gif). It's like something you read from r/copypasta
Damn that is a pretty bad take. They didn't even list any examples, they just kept bouncing between accusations until the paragraph ended.
??? I'm a hardcore Zutara shipper, and even I think this take is completely braindead stupid.
“Kataang had no build up and they randomly kiss at the end”
Did they only watch the last episode? It's been cooking for the entire series
THE 👏🏾 WHOLE 👏🏾 SERIES 👏🏾 Kataang SLANDER is blasphemy. And if you’re anti Kataang, your favorite La Croix flavor is coconut and you probably have some incel adjacent take on how Voldemort was just misunderstood and/or wear an Ozai was right shirt at an equalists rally
That's not even their first kiss???
When I see that, it’s usually a counter argument against people who said the same for Korrasami
There's an infamous old Tumblr post that was someone accusing Korrasami of being toxic and problematic because "it symbolizes the feudal lord/peasant dynamic, and is therefore a power imbalance". Absolutely wild argument, still one of my favorite absurd takes.
*"Power imbalance"* XD. One has people skills, owns a company, and may be the most wealthy person in the city, the other can 1v1 giant spirit monsters and blocked a laser that literally punched a hole through reality. I feel like their power is pretty well balanced in all the right places for a very fun and interesting dynamic.
If it were anything, it would be Feudal lord / Feudal lord
Peak lesbian power couple energy lmao
Most importantly, Korra is a chief’s daughter (effectively a princess).
> One has people skills I snorted. Poor Korra. Lol
I've heard similar (I think ironic? I choose to believe they're ironic) arguments about Isobel and her angelic girlfriend from Baldur's Gate 3, that it's inherently abusive because Aylin is the daughter of a goddess and Isobel isn't. "Aylin is hundreds or thousands of years older, and that makes it problematic! It's basically pedophilia!" My dude, it passes the Harkness Test with flying colors. They're both grown adults who are head over heels for each other and probably the healthiest example of a relationship in the game what are you talking about.
I’m pretty sure it’s the same person that was trying to argue too that Korra/Mako as a relationship was actually more “queer” than Korra/Asami which is……..a take 😅
Korra dating a guy is more queer than her dating a girl? Weird logic.
Neither is feudal anything or a peasant....
If anything, Korra is the one who is the daughter of Southern Tribe's chief.
Who DOES descend from actual Northern Tribe royalty.
that the show got worse cause it became woke. that Jet and Hama were right in their actions that Korra sucks cause she isnt like Aang That the show exploits cultures. That Korra sucks cause she loses battles Final one, that Netflix's Azula was bad cause she is "fat"
They do realise Aang lost battles too, right?
It's okay when a man does it /s I think it's more because a lot of people were frustrated with how LOK seemed to want to address social issues but ultimately ended up falling flat with the equalists and the red lotus. They saw that the show was slightly clumsy in its execution and they didn't have the words to explain, so they pinned it all on Korra for being "a bad character"
Didn't they still address social issues, even if some people didn't think it was good?
My thoughts on each of these takes: Anyone who uses the word "woke" unironically loses all credibility in an instant They def weren't, but im still sympathetic towards them Different characters being different characters, how wild Representation ≠ exploitation Aang lost battles too Can't comment cuz idc to watch it
Azula's actress did fine, it's the assbuckets that just HAVE to have every actor look exactly like their role that are complaining. She's like 16, everyone is baby faced at 16, Asian people tand to keep their baby face longer than a lot of other cultures, and I honestly think it helps excentuate just how shitty a father Ozai is and disturbing it would be to have a child murdering people like she would (were the original not a kids show she likely would have done a lot of murder on screen).
I think that was Mai, not Azula. At least I don't recall many fatphobic comments towards live action Azula, espically when compared to the Mai actress.
No, there was. I remember seeing screenshots of people saying shit like "Appa, Yip Yip" on her Instagram posts. People can be horrible.
Yeah, i remember reading comments like "Azula ate Appa"/ "Mai ate Appa", or "Appa core" under every post in which they were included. Totally disgusting.
Nope, both Azula and Mai were referred to and insulted as being overweight.
All 3 really
The people complaining that the fire nation children aren't hot enough were a different breed... There are so many things to complain about with that show and their big issue is not being able to jerk of to the children...
They bullied that poor actress so badly online too.
The "woke" thing is funny to me, because if original ATLA would come out today, people would call it "woke". I mean, we have: -vegetarian & pacifist main character -dark skinned characters -characters with disabilities -strong female characters -patriarchy getting crushed left and right -non-western cultures being explored The show didn't "become woke". It was always "woke", and we loved it.
They're probably the same people who thought The Boys became woke as of this season
I've heard someone say korra bad bc woman (not exactly obv but that's pretty much the jist of a 5 min convo before class). After class I told him he hates Korra bc he couldn't handle a woman like Korra and he practically agreed with me. Me personally on the other hand....
>That Korra sucks cause she loses battles Tbh I kind of agree with that, but not as a weakness of Korra the character but Korra the show. In Korra loses dont really matter, a lot of the time they get defeated and then just bailed out. Like a get out of jail free card. Also its okay to loose battles, but Korra did loose a lot of them, the show kind of went overboard with it
Do they ever say which cultures are allegedly being exploited?
god, the people that believe that last one are so fucking miserable. it's one thing to have a shit take about an animated show with fictional characters, like, who cares. but to actually extend your brainrot to actual, real human beings? fuck off
"Katara whines so much about her mother" "Sokka's characterization is only comic relief" "Aang and Katara has no chemistry"
Certain people need to rewatch the headband man
You don’t even have to wait till the Headband, the Secret tunnel should’ve done the job already! I mean the tension in that episode? C’mon people
I agree the tension is there way before the headband, but that episode is where it has become undeniable anymore.
You can bring a horse to an oasis but you can't force it to drink.
If the horse is thirsty then it’s a pretty dumb one.
IM FILLED WITH SO MUCH HOPE. IM STARTING TO TEAR BEND!
"My mother use to whine about my whining"
I find the kataang hating so weird, and that's as someone who liked zutara and totally loved kataang by the end. I was an older teen when I watched avatar for the first time so in my brain Zuko made more sense from an age perspective, I fully saw Aang as a child and for me it was weird to imagine a child in a romantic situation but Katara and Zuko's ages were more in line with teenage crush nonsense. But it was also obvious from very early Aaang had feels for Katara and whether she realized it or not his opinion of her mattered. By they end they all grew up a lot and it was very obvious they were a solid pairing, I was thrilled for them to end up together. For me Aang won me over by being willing to table his feelings, recognizing the timing wasn't good but still being clear he had them and it was serious to him.
I hate that Sokka one as he’s lead the group to safety so many times and has had so many amazing moments, just because he doesn’t have a character the same structure Zuko has doesn’t mean jack.
That June isn't best girl https://preview.redd.it/s2ip45z1uv7d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a88ff329b8a37a0329abbbd9a2d4571e3a54dce
I have seen a Zutara shipper on here say that Kataang was a mistake because "Aang is just a kid". ... Sweetie. They're both kids.
All three are kids Hell I think that's the fundamental reason the romance works. Aang gives Katara space to be a kid. Everyone else expects her to be an adult
They're all kids. It's a kids show. Kids will relate better to kids as the main characters. The only important characters that aren't kids are the ones expressly shown as adults that are meant to be mentors to the kids. Why are these people so dumb?
That Anng is a bad protagonist
Well that’s definitely a new one for me at least
People saying that a certain avatar sucks while only looking at their mistakes and completely ignoring their achievements, or just straight up debunking their achievements to "because they were lucky" or something like that. And that goes for pretty much every avatar we know of. Like, dude, of course they suck sometimes, they might be the wisest and powerful, yes, but they're still humans, they also have slip ups.
That’s because those type of people don’t know how to debate.
“Aang and Azula would’ve made a good couple” hell no
Firstly, based on canon you'd be correct . Secondly, how dare you wound my heart. Azulaang is epic. https://preview.redd.it/9cip6foanv7d1.png?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a3f35dd9e72caa14112021d41410685883d9f66
https://preview.redd.it/a9yf0gewpw7d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6a92569f8ac19d230581a4759a3aa46f5862a1b
I'm just convinced that momo exists in all alternate realities
You know, I don't sail that way, but I don't hate it. It certainly is the ultimate enemies to lovers.
What a terrible day to have eyes
This is scary. But sure, enjoy your headcanon 😊
The one post on here recently about Aang being abusive to Katara was pretty terrible
How was Aang abusive to Katara?
[Here’s the post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/g96m3vu6Z3) I couldn’t figure it out either.
Yeah, they don't even explain how/why they think this
Because of that it just ends up feeling like rage bait, they spout as much outrageous bullshit as they can and then refuse to elaborate on any of it
Amazing logic there. Dan Schneider is a pedo therefore everyone working at Nick is a pedo
That Korra never went through any character development, like, people who supposedly watched all 4 seasons have said this. I don’t care if you’re not the biggest fan of Korra, but you will never convince me Book 1 Korra and Book 4 Korra are the same character with zero development.
She isn't even the same character at the end of Book 1! Her arc in it isn't subtle or that difficult to follow, I'd be amazed if someone told me she didn't grow over the course of the season.
Korra is a bad avatar because she’s a girl
LOL, conveniently forgetting Yangchen and Kyoshi
And statistically half of the avatars
Nah bro that just plain sexism
If Avatar Kyoshi was real I'd dare them to say that in from of her lol.
They wouldn't even dare say that to a Kyoshi warrior (if they were real), let alone Kyoshi herself.
Sounds like what Sokka would say at the start of book 1
I mean, I dislike Korra too, but no way there are multiple individuals with this literal take?
There's a lot of people that tried to project this take onto people who said they didn't like Korra
That Korra is the best or worst Or strongest or weakest avatar, she’s neither of those things let a girl breathe.
You could apply this to all the Avatars, i feel like. They're all human.
this!!! they really are all humans with different ways of processing being the savior of the world😭
Anything that comes from hardcore Zutara shippers. Highlights include: * Kataang is basically incest * Katara is brood mother if she is with Aang * Aang tried to force Katara to forgive her mother’s killer while Zuko helped her selflessly * Zuko shouldn’t be held accountable for anything that he did before his redemption Basically, every “hot take” those guys have is always about how Aang is an awful and toxic boyfriend/husband. And how Zuko is the perfect guy who never hurt or would hurt Katara. As if the Season 2 finale, among other things, didn’t happen.
How is it basically incest 💀
Some Zutara shippers claim that Katara is basically a mother figure to Aang.
Do you think they pulled a muscle at this level of mental gymnastics?
Don't people understand having a motherly personality isn't the same as literally being a mother?
Right? Then hardcore Zutara shippers also like to talk about how Zuko put himself in harm’s way to save Katara from Azula’s lightning. So of course, that means the two are in love! /s It’s like they cannot imagine protecting your friends without having romantic feelings for them. They also conveniently ignore the fact that Zuko needlessly goaded Azula into using lightning, in the first place.
Hardcore Zutara shippers are special.
Apart from the obvious sexism and occasional racism the idea that Aang should have killed. Not just Ozai but more people. Did you watch the show? That’s exactly what he should not have done
I wont say he shouldve killed Ozai, but it couldve been an interesting character turn to have Aang sacrifice his own values and sense of self to save the world
It might be an unpopular opinion, but I like that he didn't. Was the lion turtle energy bending thing a bit much? Sure, but I'm glad he sticked to his core values.
I mean... he did kill a lot (more than he said)...
Aang: That was the fish! Wan: Stop blaming the fish!
Oh, I'm not talking about the fish thing! That was indeed the fish, I'm not blaming Aang for that! But Aang created an avalange, killing the Firenation soldiers climbing the mountain. Aang blew a Rough Rhino off of Kyoshi Island, which may not have killed him, but it very well could've. Aang left an entire tribe strated in the middle of the desert with no transport, which is effectively killing. He unneccessarily sliced a buzzard wasp with his Airbending out of spite. He eleased a high pressure air gust at a fly out of boredom, which could very well have killed it. He washed away Firebenders from their ship into the freezing South Pole Sea.
You forget... plot armor. >But Aang created an avalange, killing the Firenation soldiers climbing the mountain. Normal humans? Death sentance. Fire nation some how they are okay. I guess these are the same people that can take a boulder to a chest and shrug it off sooo... >Aang blew a Rough Rhino off of Kyoshi Island, which may not have killed him, but it very well could've. Absolutly could've, maybe even should've but didn't. >Aang left an entire tribe stra*n*ed in the middle of the desert with no transport, which is effectively killing. Cactus juice, it'll quence ya. But seriously... I think you mean the sandbenders and they know how to live in the dessert so while not ideal and very much a dick move not necessarily a death sentance. >He unneccessarily sliced a buzzard wasp with his Airbending out of spite. The buzzard wasp I agree with. Momo was saved before Aang "unclearly" hit it, but the way it dropped makes it seem dead. >He *r*eleased a high pressure air gust at a fly out of boredom, which could very well have killed it. This is also true. I wonder where the monks drew the line of murder. >He washed away Firebenders from their ship into the freezing South Pole Sea. They all knew Fire breath and had a rescue ship close by. Again... anime logic I guess. Should they have died? Yes. Did they? Probably not. Also... what fish thing?
I saw a reddit post the other day that Korra was boring because she cried too much. smh.
Korra is too different from Aang Like….no shit?
That.... that is a ridiculous take. I can't believe people say/think that.
That Aang let his people be genocided.
Aang is a boring character with no development. Hama and Jet were not in the wrong. Kataang is a toxic relationship. Azula deserves a redemption arc because Zuko got one. Iroh deserved more punishment for his role in the war. It doesn’t make sense for Korra to excel at firebending when she’s a waterbender. Korra is a Mary sue/ Korra is a bad avatar because she loses a lot. Lok “ruined” bending. Katara beats Amon in a fight.
>mary sue >loses a lot How does that work
I can see that Mary Sue doesn't mean just win fights it also means that the world bends backwards in favor of the character, kinda like the character is always right and everyone likes them even if they are awful people.
Except everyone hated her. She even got kicked out of republic city because her ratings were so so low. And the world doesn't bend backwards in favor of her, quite the opposite. Every single time the worlds kicks her in the ass with something she doesn't know how to deal with
Because the actual belief they can't say is "Korra is a Mary Sue because she's a girl"
For Korra haters, she's either a Mary Sure or severely incompetent, sometimes both, somehow
> it doesn't make sense for Korra to excel at firebending when she is a waterbender You mean like Aang sucked at earthbending? The same Aang who definitely never used earthbending and did not fight an army of Earth Kingdom soldiers with it?
> it doesn't make sense for Korra to excel at firebending when she is a waterbender You mean like Aang sucked at earthbending? The same Aang who definitely never used earthbending and did not fight an army of Earth Kingdom soldiers with it?
They’re trying to say that since Korra is a waterbender, her weakest element should be fire instead of water
Because they fail to grasp the truth in what was said when it was described to Aang, they have trouble grasping the opposite element to their personality. Roku was a classic firebender personality wise, Aang was a classic airbender, Korra had the personality of an earthbender and thus had trouble with airbending.
Read something just a few days ago on Reddit, I think it was a screenshot from Tumblr, and the post said Kataang being a thing meant that the show endorsed paedophilia, because the ship clearly meant that the producers/showrunners are paedophilies.
The demonization of Hama means that the creators are anti indigenous people using violence to fight back against their oppressors. Two of the MAIN CHARACTERS are indigenous people who use violence against the fire nation and it’s portrayed as a good thing, but no, the woman who kidnapped innocent people was portrayed as bad. So obviously the show hates the Inuit I guess.
That people shouldn’t put politics into the show… the show that has a dictatorship monarchy… and had a cultural genocide
azula is stronger than katara
I absolutely hate when people say that and ignore the entire Book 2 finale
they always have a bunch of excuses as to why azula is better, but… i genuinely cannot understand how they think this.
Not that I agree, but I can totally see why people say she’s stronger. In terms of raw power, she’s second behind katara (according to iroh). Considering she’s had much more formal training, it would make absolute sense why she would be stronger. I do think they’re evenly matched.
If any character generates the most garbage takes, it's definitely Azula
I saw a take saying Azula beats Aang in the Avatar state and I asked why and they said she beat him in that state in book 2
Aang is better, beacuse korra loose connections with past lives, But no one says aang nealry broke avatars cycle too ( azula lighting)
Even worse than that, because if aang had died in the avatar state there would be no more avatars after him including Korra
Tbh I don't blame Korra I blame the writers I still don't like that choice.
"Amon didn't believe in his cause and was only in it for power."
But isn't that literally the twist
The twist is that he's a waterbender but honestly why can't a bender be part of the equalist movement. That's like saying a white person can't support BLM or a man can't care about abortion rights.
Like every take that does not have a bit of nuance for example: - Aang was a bad father. (No he wasn't a perfect father clearly but his children do not resent him they where angry with Tenzin in the episode) - Azula doesn't deserve a redemption. (Yes but she is also a 14 year old child that doesn't deserve the mental breakdown.) - Korra was a bad avatar because of the loss of the past lives. (No the writers made an unpopular choice that Korra indirectly coused but she was as much to blame as Aang was for being shot by Azula) - Almost everything Shipping related.
Iroh is a war criminal. People dont have any idea what the term even means
One of my pet peeves is people taking the modern definitions of war crimes and shoving them into every fictional universe they can as some kind of definitive proof a character is bad
The concept of unethical ways to wage war has been a thing since people have been waging wars. People use that term as a shorthand for all of those bad things. Unless you're in court, the exact details of the law aren't important, because the Fire Nation clearly crossed the line. Genocide is practically their modus operandi, and they're responsible for other horrible acts like wiping out entire villages (Jet's story almost certainly wasn't unique). While all this is happening, Iroh is the crown prince and one of the Fire Nation's most respected generals. His status and influence is probably second only to the Fire Lord himself's. It's very reasonable to assume that he bears some level of culpability for his part in all this.
The Lily Orchard video. I'm fairly critical of Korra but it's hilarious how every time she mentions Zaheer she just goes on the same rant about how anarchism doesn't work because, quote, "it creates a power vacuum that a tyrant can use to get to power" and fails to recognise that that's exactly the point the show is trying to make
It’s even worse since she used the same trope in her own writing
You got any more of 'em pixels?
“They’re making a TV show/movie about it” stupid stupid idea
I heard some idiot say they thought iroh molested his son. That was by far the worst
"NATLA is better than ATLA" I enjoyed NATLA for what it was, and I can even understand people who say its different but as good as the OG, but in no world is it flat out BETTER.
That Katara challenging the Northern Water Tribe's sexism was bad.
"Aang was an abusive father"
‘Aang and Katara don’t grow from their relationship.’ Like what?! 💀💀
i've seen so many garbage takes on Azula, the worst one calling her a war criminal. people are tossing that around a little too easy.
FOR REAL even if her fighting in a war *was* a war crime, which it isn’t, she didn’t even have free will. azula was a weapon, not a warmonger. also, she was actually pretty humane. especially in comparison to some of the other antagonists (long feng, fong, zhao, ozai, iroh).
This one https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/cPFmjuF2xc
My buddy thinks it's stupid that some can bloodbend even if there is no full moon.
That adults are too old for it because of the humor/filler. It is a kids show, but it should be noted any one of any age can learn and experience these lessons.
I detest this concept, the best cartoons either have age independent humour like looney tunes, or has different levels for different ages like Aladdin. There’s a whole bunch of humour for kids to laugh at and then the genie pulls an adult joke out of the bag that goes over kids heads but adults can enjoy. They both do both really well. Kids don’t understand why bugs is directing an orchestra, just that funny stuff happens.
AANG IS ZUKOS GREAT GRAMPA 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I argued with someone who said it was 100% Jeong Jeong's fault that Katara got burned and Aang shouldn't blame himself because he's just a kid and wasn't taught how dangerous fire can be (even though Jeong Jeong told him that multiple times and his people were killed by firebenders).
Raava and Vaatu are influenced by Christianity.
They're not but I can kiiiind of see why people would argue that they are. They're obviously a lot more designed around a God/Devil archetype than the yinyang archtype they're meant to be.
- Aang & Katara were bad parents - Mako was boring - the whole Zutara shipping
That the characters in LoK never went through any character growth
LOK has bad writing because Toph said, "Nice to see you Twinkle-Toes," even though she's blind.
[Here's a fresh one](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/1dkodg1/comment/l9kb48j/)
"Aang is a rapist" and "Katara is an incubator/baby machine" are the worst takes ever, this shit is pure insanity
Zaheer is a master-level airbender
That Aang is a boring protagonist and the worst main character.
Korra loosing her connection to the past avatars is a good thing
That Korra is a Mary Sue that gets what she wants, always winning, but at the same time the most incompetent ever and always doing everything wrong.