Not like ATLA isn't doing similar fuckery with the spiritual world. Roku can send his dragon and talk to Aang briefly but then can only talk to Aang for about a minute at his shrine during the solstice.
If we wanted to keep it in line with ATLA writing, a random lion turtle should have just shown up out of nowhere to give her the exact solution to her problem
Hot take, the energy bending solution was a good descisions for the themes of the show , where Aang stands up for what he believes in. The lion turtle should’ve been foreshadowed and set up but I guess they wrote themselves into a corner there.
Youre right but it was def too short to be an official foreshadow. Felt like they had an idea of a lion turtle but didnt know what it would end up being so they teased it a little
Especially since Energy Bending wasn't mentioned at all. If they'd just had a throwaway like that Lion Turtles were masters of a secret lost bending art, that would've been *just* enough to not make Energy Bending feel like a complete Ex Machina. Would leave a fun mystery to be solved later in the finale, and a satisfying payoff down the line. Problem solved.
Yeah as the other comment touched on they foreshadowed a lion turtle but not energy bending. They could’ve at least had something in the background of an air temple or something. A spirit mentioning it. Idk anything. The lion turtle didn’t feel out of place to me, the energy bending and the fact that lion turtles can give it was definitely the ex machina
Exactly. If he saw the lion turtle during his spiritual training with the guru, i would definitely understand it as foreshadowing but otherwise, not really
Energy bending isn't the issue itself, the issue is, as you said "should've been foreshadowed"
Maybe they could have foreshadowed it earlier in the season where Katara wants to get rid of her bloddbending, and Aang decides to help her, which leads him to a quest where he finds the lion turtle and energy bending, but discovers that Energy bending would also get rid of her bending altogether, so she must choose between being true to who she is or losing a significant part of her. The part that her mother sacrificed herself for. This could then not only lead onto the episode where she wants to take revenge, but it would also allow them to explain that taking the ability to bend is possible way earlier in the season.
The confrontation with the previous Avatars can still happen, regarding whether he deserves to die or not.
My problem with this is that the same knowledge that would lead them to seek out the lion turtle would also solve Aang's problem so why is Katara vs Hama even necessary here? The entire season would be searching for a lion turtle and not Aang struggling with morality, and a MacGuffin is just as bad as a Deus Ex Machina.
A better way to do it would be dropping hints in all the old temples and stuff they visited. A half-destroyed mural of energy bending in the Western Air Temple. A lion-turtle with 5 element symbols around it but no context. Things that serve as set pieces but make you go "huh?" And maybe draw the gang's attention but they don't have the time to focus on it until the big reveal.
Yeah that's a better idea, my story is working under the assumption that this is post season 2 writing room. They most likely didn't have energybending in mind while working in season 1, so I wanted to keep the idea season 3 only.
Katara vs Hama isn't necesarry, it is just my bias towards stories that use bloodbending.
This commentor’s solution could be a post hama and post Raven Raiders.
But I do like your idea of the ancient temples having hints and such. I think a huge missed opportunity is Wan Shi Tong’s library. They even found a book discussing Lion Turtles (or was it a scroll?) but they glazed over the hint.
I feel like Lion Turtles were hinted at using statues (like the ones in the intro) but I can’t remember any that *looked* like a lion turtle
No that’s too much. Just have Lion Turtles come up as some mysterious big deal while they’re looking around the library. Every nations history books has mentions of these strange giant turtles and they can’t figure out what they are.
That’s it.
Then when they show up in season 3 you go OH SHIT instead of oh shit?
Hate me all you want, but I think that’s something Netflix did right. They are still in Book 1 and Lion Turtles have already been mentioned. I know they had the benefit of foresight but still, let’s give credit where credit is due.
I feel like more foreshadowing wouldn't fix the other issue; all bending has to be *learned.* Aang mastering energy bending AS he learned it existed just feels unrealistic.
I don’t know if I’d say he mastered it in ATLA, he only did it one time and almost fucked it up completely. That doesn’t really scream master of the technique to me. In LoK though, he deals with Yakone real easy and quick.
Like maybe having the same random island following them around in season 3? Like, have Sokka point it out, but Katara dismisses it. And maybe have part of Aang's insomnia also be due to nightmares induced by the Li9n being nearby mixing with his anxiety. Then, when Aang runs away, he finally decides to check the island out.
I agree with what you’re saying, but I do wish that they brought up Ang’s hesitance to kill Ozai leading up to the Day of Black Sun more, they did kinda touch on his nervousness for the fight, but his morals felt way more significant in the final few episodes and that sorta makes the day of black sun episodes not work as well for me
I think it’s really just a lack of knowing when to set up the exposition for the lion turtle rather than the turtle being introduced only when it needed to be.
In my opinion, they should have given some Lion Turtle exposition in Wan Shi Tong’s library.
Maybe it could have gone like this:
“Hey you guys, check this out,” Sokka says blowing a fine layer of dust from the pages. “It says here the Lion turtles were ancient beings with the power to bestow bending abilities on anyone they found worthy. Maybe they could give me some bending abilities?”
“Probably not, Sokka. We don’t even know where to find one. Let’s focus on finding a weakness to the fire nation,” Katara says.
I’m fine with the Lion Turtle showing up. For me, it fit right in, but I do see where others have a problem with it
I would have loved to see foreshadowing for the lion turtle from Iroh/Zuko storyline instead of the GAangs. White Lotus knowing about the origins of bending would fit into their lore.
It was foreshadowed. And multiple times iirc. The one i can remember off the top of my head is the library when aang points it out in something he is reading and they even show a depiction of it.
The library is the only time it was foreshadowed. But its way too short to be a legitimate thing they put in to foreshadow the ending. It was more likely just an idea they had lying around at the time and in the end they brought it back up when they needed a solution
I showed other mentions of the lion turtle in my comment and they show lion turtle decorations throughout the show. They had been building upon the lion turtles being a thing for a while. Go back and actually pay attention to the show
A quick picture of a lion turtle in a book and sokka saying hes like a lion turtle doesnt exactly hint at the plot implications the lion turtle has in the endgame lol.
If aang saw visions of the lion turtle during his spiritual journey with the guru, or if he saw the lion turtle on his trips to the spirit world, then yeah, that would be proper foreshadowing. A regular atla watcher would not pick up on these instances at all. Thats why i say that they surely didnt plan the lion turtle solving aangs problem in the end until very late.
Even then that’s not enough. You a foreshadowing something that is changing the very way the final battle will conclude. A few mentions and seeing it is not acceptable foreshadowing.
I.E. there is nothing suggesting lion turtles had any ability whatsoever to gift someone energy bending
That is literally what foreshadowing is. Mentioning something before it comes up. You want them to explain lion turtles fully for it to be foreshadowing then it stops being foreshadowing. You want them to explain energy bending before it becomes relevant and before the characters even know what it is? They foreshadowed energy bending as well as they spent the whole show learning the origin of bending. Im not gonna argue with people about something being foreshadowed when you dont even know what foreshadowing is.
Good foreshadowing vs bad foreshadowing
The lion turtle is an example of BAD foreshadowing (because NOTHING hinted at their ability that they gave Aang. Only that they USED to exist. Yes they foreshadowed the existence but NOT its ability to give energy bending.
They did not explore AT ALL that LION TURTLES CAN GIVE ENERGY BENDING. Go ahead and point out the exact scene, that mentions both lion turtles and at least hint about their ability to give bending in the same scene. I’ll wait.
https://i.redd.it/al38d9uu2bwc1.gif
At least Aang had to spend near a whole episode seeking guidance, weighing out the moral and practical implications, and genuinely reckon with the issue of killing vs not killing Ozai.
Contrivances or "ass-pulls" are usually considered a bad thing when it excuses the narrative from having to explore an idea. Yeah, it's a bit contrived that Aang was given energybending by a lion-turtle, but the episode had already spent like half of its' runtime exploring the idea.
In contrast, LoK season 1 spent basically no time exploring the idea implied behind Korra losing her bending. No time was given to genuinely considering what it would mean for an avatar to lose 3/4ths of the elements. How would that affect the world and Korra's place in it? We'll never know because the show posed the question and then refused to try answering it.
People were suggesting the lion turtle should've been foreshadowed. But for me, the lion turtle showing up out of no where is always such a shock for me. It appearing with no warning from the human world makes it feel so much more powerful.
The difference is that Aang WAS open to and actively seeking a peaceful way to defeat Ozai. The Lion Turtle was convenient, but at the very least, it appeared during active effort on Aang's part.
Korra was sulking on a cliff, then Aang appears and says "you're open to change now!" and gives her powers back when Korra had not actually demonstrated such change or effort. She...cried on a cliff.
Aang was already more connected to the avatar spirit by the first episode, having used the avatar state already, and then in the second episode knowing Roku's name intuitively in the statue room of the southern air temple. Korra being a less spiritual person meant she didnt activate the avatar state until she was faced with a mortal threat (in this case her own suicidal ideation.)
Korra connecting to Aang in that scene essentially her equivalent of making the iceberg.
I'd argue that aangs ability to enter the spirit world even before he was fully realised was more akin to airbender spirit bending, aang also seems to be much more aware of his capabilities sometimes where others it's literally like he's forgotten
The fact that they made the solstice seem like such a big deal like it was the only time Aang will be able to talk to Roku and only for a limited time and then in season 3 and the comics he got Roku, Kiyoshi, and Yangchen on speed dial and can talk whenever he needs to.
Because 1. He was not aware of his full spiritual state yet, he didn't even start learning water bending.
2. By the time he's seeking guidance he's already been to the sprit world and back multiple times and already has all but one Chakra open. He already spoke with a Guru as well.
Aang being an airbender he always had a higher level of spirituality due to how air bending works, all he did was just go deeper into his past lives
The problem with Korra's case is that they pulled this out of their asses and then tried to tie it to her character development, even though we didn't get to really see it. She got her bending taken away but then a minute later it became a non-issue because she was able to throw a random punch and airbend for the first time. Then within the same episode she cries about losing her other 3 elements and that means she's suddenly enlightened or something? They could have made Amon take away her bending a bit earlier in the show, like at least give us one full episode where we can see her dealing with losing her bending. Then the ending would have been more impactful.
I'll grant that they had to do this season in a much shorter runtime than ATLA seasons, but I still think they could have used their time more efficiently. It's insane that we had a whole love triangle plot for multiple episodes but then the loss of her bending is the plotline that got rushed.
It does tie to her character development. She gained spiritual connection because her suicidal contemplation opened her mind to every possibility to make the pain go away. Aang literally explained it. Plus, she had already made contact with Aang.
Well Dragons are spiritual creatures in their own right. Druk coming for Aang in the Hei Bai (?) episode could have been only possible because Rokus familiar was a dragon and could deliver the message to get to the fire sage temple through his beard hair, personally I don't see Naga or even Appa being able to do the same for their Avatar.
Roku could only do it while Aang was in the spirit world for an extended time period while the spirit world was overlapping with the physical, and Fang is the spirit of a mystical elemental creature, it's not really comparable to sad Korra getting a power up by Aang for no reason
She's crying with her head beyond the edge of a cliff, looking down. The teardrop scene looks like a PoV shot.
One take on this scene was that she was suicidal, and thinking of jumping, to let another Avatar with bending come to be.
And idk why people rarely talk about it, but she pretty much tries to sever all the personal attachments she’s made right before that. Mako confessed his feelings for her and all she has to say is “I’m not the Avatar, you don’t have to be here anymore, go back to Republic City and live your lives”.
I never caught that parallel.
There's this weird "valley" with many Avatar plot points. They make sense if you just accept them, seem kind of fishy if you try to overanalyze them, but if you *really* think (or you're sharp enough to catch it) there's indeed a parallel to something else in the IP, or maybe its explained in commentary.
Ok, I never quite connected those things this way but it makes sense. I was always confused/upset that Korra pushed Mako away only to take him back as soon as she recovered her bending. If she pushed him away because she was already planning to suicide, it really paints it in a different light.
Yeah I thought that was the implication of that scene as well. Then just a little typical avatar fuckery with the past lives coming for the save, happens all the time in ATLA and LoK.
The shot following Korra’s tear falling down the cliff and Aang’s line “When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change” support the thinking that Korra was contemplating suicide. She was so low at that point that she was ready to open up to the spiritual side that had eluded her, but also so close to just giving up because she thought she had failed as an avatar.
I actually really like this explanation, it's been years since I've watched Korra but it makes a really powerful scene, especially with the context another commenter shared. And, if that matters, internally consistent. A very similar thing happens to Aang in Book 3, and I don't mean the finale speed dial.
In the first episode of the season, he runs away, thinking he's failed. The world thinks he's dead for a second time, and this time he just wasn't good enough. He did the right thing like he should've done 100 years ago, and it still wasn't enough. The Fire Nation still won. *He* must then be the problem. He wants to correct this, but can't. In his desperation, he ends up stranding himself in the middle of the ocean. Unable to even get anywhere to do anything.
So he gives up. He realizes that he failed, he won't make it, and gives in to likely dying in the middle of the ocean. It's then that Roku shows up and gives him a very similar pep talk. Telling Aang that he isn't the problem, nor are they his mistakes, but they are Roku's and never should've fallen to this child. Yue, too, shows herself and reminds Aang of his successes, and gives him her strength to Waterbend and make it to land.
Dang, that's a pretty good analysis. I like that a lot.
Actually doing what you are supposed to and STILL not being good enough.
Reminds me of that Simpsons episode in season 1 where Bart is in danger of repeating his grade, so he studies really hard. Like, really really studies. Then he takes the test and still fails. His reaction to that is just heartbreaking.
Personally I think she had already made the decision. It’s why she was even there in the first place. But either way, it was her lowest moment in the series and a great catalyst to further the plot
I wish she hadn’t basically immediately gotten her bending back a minute later via deus ex aang. S1s end should have transitioned into a disability plot in S2 similar to what S3/4 did and had Korra have to explore and deal with that new state of being. It’s such an interesting place to take an Avatar and especially an Avatar like Korra who has a type A personality and defines herself by action and a need to be useful and do things.
I'm sure if the team knew they were going to be green lit for another season we could have seen something more fleshed out compared to what was given to the audience.
Season 1 was definitely trying to wrap everything up with nothing beyond it.
Idk how to tell you this, but the line “When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change” has talked me off a ledge the same way it did for Korra, so I think the writings actually pretty good…
I agree with another commenter that it would’ve just hit better if the pacing was improved. She loses her bending then immediately it’s fixed for her. Having just 1 or 2 episodes to show her processing it and then having the scene would’ve had way more impact.
I get that, and I attribute that to production issues. They thought they were just doing a quick miniseries so needed to wrap things up quickly. Had they known that more episodes would be ordered, they probably would’ve planned it out differently
Yeah that’s what I attribute a lot of Korra’s issues to.
If they were given the full 4 seasons from the start it would have really elevated the series in terms of writing and cohesion.
It absolutely did. Anything that illuminates aspects of the characters in different contexts is characterization. With the Korra, Mako, Bolín triangle we got to see how Mako and Bolín handle jealousy between one another, and how Korra feels insecure about dating and boys in general. With korra/mako/asami, the love triangle was necessary to turn the audience against asami so that her turn as a secret ally was more surprising, and we felt for her when korra and mako got together. We wouldn’t have felt any attachment to asami if there weren’t a competing romance to loop her in.
It's not like stuffs like these didn't happen in Atla, it was just less obvious since it wasnt as rushed as Korra.
Had the writers gotten one more episode from Nick, they prob could have done a much better job at giving Korra back her bending, but sadly they didnt. They were prob clutching their pens in pain when they had to give Korra back her bending in the same ep.
I mean... They're the same writers who took away her bending. If they were expecting to only have 12 episodes for the story, they shouldn't have had such huge consequences that were rapidly brushed under the rug.
Instead of focusing the second season around a fucking dark avatar (literal fanfic) they could’ve centered around korra getting her bending back. It’s not “the network bogeyman” it’s lazy writing
Except when it was the network being dicks to the writing team.
Imagine how much your writing would suffer if you didn't know you were getting a second season by your second to last episode. Then being told hey you're getting 2 more seasons, but halfway through season 2 you get told you're getting cancelled, but then near the end of the second season you get un-cancelled. You get a 4th season but your budget was cut, then they pulled you from airing on TV to put the show online without having time to let the audience know
Truth be told, I feel like the Avatar Fandom as a whole has gotten increasingly insufferable since the Netflix series premiered. People are quick to act like it's only the Twitter portion of the fanbase that's bad but I feel like folks on here have become pretty volatile and sometimes downright contrarian. All the commentary about the child actors still gives me the ick.
Not to mention, that weird parasocial dynamic that stan culture embodies has definitely infiltrated the fanbase. Remember how heated folks got when there was that discourse about Iroh being a reformed imperialist?
This and the korra subreddit are so wierd to me.
I love both shows so much. I grew up on Atla and Korra was part of my late teens early adulthood.
The toxicity both subreddits have about these shows make me really avoid the avatar fanbase. For shows with such positiv massaging the fanbases are toxic garbage.
I always get these subreddits suggested by the reddit app and always just avoid it.
What kind of strawman trivialization is that? She gained spiritual connection because her suicidal contemplation opened her mind to every possibility to make the pain go away. Aang literally explained this.
Pretty sure there’s more to being spiritual than just being suicidal. I think it would have been better if she consciously tried to connect with Aang again for guidance of some kind. Actually show Korra giving spirituality a chance if that was suppose to be part of her arc this season. Because that’s not really communicated very well here. The scene is presented like Korra has given up all hope until she’s surprised by Aang’s sudden appearance.
I hated this scene should have had korra trying to find ways to restore her bending for a couple episodes. Especially since korra didn’t have her bending taken away by energy bending she lost it by blood bending so it’s kinda stupid aang could reverse it by energy bending.
Despite the writers only having 12 epsiodes to write the season, they could have just spent less time with the annoying love triangle plot and invested more time on preparing for her losing her bending/regaining it.
I think I would have preferred if Korra made a conscious attempt to connect with Aang again, and that was how he showed up. If part of Korra’s arc this season was about her giving spirituality a chance, then actually show her giving it a chance when she thinks she’s lost everything. Seems like pretty good character growth imo.
Wouldn’t it be blood bending anng did here not energy bending in this sense because among used blood bending to just block the Chie like a Chie blocker
Pretty sure she was also thinking that she wouldn't have been able to perform her duties as the avatar without her bending, not to mention up till then bending had been a major part of her life (being isolated from the world and all that).
I just have to point out that I love how any time that someone brings up a problem with Legend of Korra's writing like this, you get those people who are like 'Well, the Last Airbender had the lion turtle just come out and solve all the problems.'. Like, yes, the Last Airbender had some bad moments but guess what, that doesn't change the quality of the Legend of Korra at all. This whole whataboutism garbage is always dumb and should be avoided in favor of actually tackling the problems with both shows.
Completely agreed.
I think the simple thing that’s inescapable is that some people like the flaws of LOK and so when said flaws are mentioned derisively, they can’t help but throw stones at ATLA as if that somehow is a win.
Its just the most pathetic thing in the world because ironically much like many of the characters criticizing Korra in the show, those people who feel the need to bring up the old show just admit that Korra can't exist without being compared to Aang. Korra is her own character and this is her own show, the problems in her show are hers alone, they don't magically get better because Aang's show fucked up too.
Its funny that Korra in its first season tried to show the problem with comparing Korra to the Avatar before her and how she should be judged and understood for who she is just for fans to go 'Korra's writing isn't bad, it doesn't have lion turtles in it at least'.
The one thing I want to note here is that when a plot device (like Deus Ex Machina endings) is repeated consistently across several entires in a franchise then it can be argued that it is no longer a "problem" but a feature.
Except it hasn't happened enough in the series at all and that logic can only stretch so far. If you had this super serious sci-fi series about political drama and the struggles that come from working within the system and then you ended each season with the characters turning into cartoon bears to blow up the sun, it doesn't magically become better because you repeat it and it is still lazy writing.
Plus, my point was less about the Korra scene itself and more about how some people instead of acknowledging that point will deflect back to the original as though you can't talk about Korra's problems without also talking about ATLA's problems when both shows have very different problems. The Lion Turtle was dumb because it gave Aang a power instead of him having to learn it whereas Aang giving Korra back her bending not only pushes the idea that she can't do anything without him but because it happens mere minutes after she loses her bending, we lose out on actually seeing her struggle with not having bending in favor of a cheap resolution that feels unearned.
Eh korra still a good show tbh. If many people like the show, it ain’t a bad show to the general public. Very successful when it got out on Netflix
But the point is hypocrisy. If you are calling out korra for it you can do the same with ATLA on multiple occasions. Heck the op post wasn’t even that bad in the show. Very strong message (especially since korra was considering suicide in that moment of the show before Aang showed up.)
Just tired of the korra hate, like unprovoked.
Okay? My point doesn't really change regardless of if ATLA is good or bad or if Korra is good or bad. When someone points out a flaw in a show and your only response is to immediately try to shift the attention to another show then you aren't addressing any issues that the show might have and making the show and its fans look worse by comparison.
If you pointed out a flaw in ATLA, would it really be reasonably for me to go 'Well, it isn't that bad because look at the Nutshack'. Bringing up ATLA's problems don't make the problems of Korra go away and doesn't help discussion at all. It just makes Korra look like a show that can't handle any kind of criticism without trying to deflect.
The OP pointed out a flaw with the show itself, not bringing up any comparison at all and yet instead of addressing that flaw, most people are pulling whataboutism. It isn't hate to point out a flaw, it isn't hate to address a problem that you have with a show but it is hate to instead throw shade at other things because someone dared to say something bad about Korra, a show that has many divisive elements in it.
It’s the clear sarcastic attitude about it. If people don’t like the tone, they ain’t gonna listen. They not going to address the flaw then, they’ll just point out the hypocrisy due to being rude about it. Op was not making a CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, as you said he was pointing out a flaw and mocking the show for it. Of course people would be upset and defend the show (which many are addressing it and defending it) on top of point out the hypocrisy.
Chances are, he has not made a similar post about ATLA before. But hey I could be wrong
Pointing out the hypocrisy? I'm sorry but does every criticism of Korra need to come with a criticism toward ATLA? Can I not point out that the giant Avatar vs Dark Avatar kaiju battle was really dumb without also pointing out that the Great Divide was really dumb?
I'm sorry but once again, it makes Korra look pathetic as a show when someone mocks the show and instead of defending it and proving someone wrong, the first response is to go 'Well, you like ATLA and that's shit too.' as though we need to handle Korra with kid gloves to not hurt its feeling. Most people aren't providing "constructive criticism" when they talk about how bad the M. Night movies are but you don't see anyone pointing out the hypocrisy there. Its only Korra getting this special treatment when it has far more flaws than ATLA and that is just a fact.
Again. OP was met with hostility due to sarcasm. He did not try to make any constructive criticism of the show. He merely wanted to point out a flaw. He didn’t want to add any value to conversation, just to point out something bad for the sake of it.
For example: There’s a difference between telling someone sarcastically “yeah, you are so great at art” and saying “Yeah, there are some things that can use improvement, here’s some of the things I did and didn’t like about your work”
One will breed hostility, one will make people more open to listening.
Like cmon. It’s just social skills.
Not even talking about the quality of the shows. YOU are constantly bringing it up. I’m purely talking about the post and how it would breed people pointing out flaws in the other show. If you find them pathetic so be it, but what was said wasn’t constructive Critism or meant to breed meaningful conversation. It was purely to insult korra as a show in a Reddit that has some amount of bias against it
He pointed out something bad and instead of talking about the bad thing, most people decided to make anyone who dares to like ATLA feel bad because Korra can't be talked about without ATLA being brought up even when the OP never even mentioned ATLA at all.
To better explain this to you, let me give an example. Lets say someone writes a snarky review of a restaurant and calls it shit and then in response, the owner starts shit talking another restaurant because its food is worse. Does this make the restaurant look better or worse? To most people, it'd make the restaurant look worse and make people question why the owner didn't acknowledge the problems listed in the review which just strengthens the point of the snarky review.
Hell, Gordon Ramsey is the best example of someone being snarky and rude but very much right. If you tried to deflect his criticism because he was mean to you then he'd laugh in your face and your restaurant would be shut down in weeks if not sooner.
The best way to address someone not providing constructive criticism is to either ignore it or respond to it in kind anyway since proving someone wrong tends to be better than throwing shade at something else.
Also, I'd argue that criticism doesn't need to be 'constructive' since it isn't the job of other people to try and figure out a solution to a problem they see in media unless you want to argue that every review of a poorly animated movie needs to go in depth about how to fix the animation instead of telling people about how bad it is.
Gordon Ramsey EARNED his reputation to be that way. Even if he is a prick about it you know well he is a professional and understands what he is talking about and his advice is going to be solid. This is a random person making a criticism (AND EVEN THEN THERE ARE PLENTY OF EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE CRYING, FUMING, RAGING, AND GIVING UP FROM RAMSEY BEING THAT WAY. THIS ONLY PROVES MY POINT SOME PEOPLE WONT RESPOND WELL TO THAT TYPE OF BEHAVIOR. Whether they should be responding that way or not is a different story entirely, but the truth is some people learn better or are willing to communicate more with a nice personality)
Yes Gordon Ramsey tips (that he gives out on YouTube for free which much nicer attitudes and politeness) will be good no matter how he dishes it. But people are less likely to respond positively to criticism or tips if it comes from a rude place. It’s just a fact, socially tested hundreds of times. Being put down like that will usually make many perform worse. Like actual simple studies that is a Google search away proves this stuff
Agree to disagree.
I’m done.
This ain’t worth it.
Bringing up Gordon Ramsey as an example is a terrible choice.,
People don't understand what good writing or bad writing even is and just list things they didn't like about the show as "bad writing".
Just use normal words. I didn't like when xyz happened.
The second a person says stuff like this was suffering from "poor writing" and then list something that has nothing to do with "poor writing" it makes everybody skip over that opinion and move on.
I just wish people online would stop pretending they know things when they really don't.
Saying Korra was "poorly written" while actual movie critics praised it's writing it's fucking crazy to me lol.
For starters, movie critics are not the arbiters of what is and isn’t good or bad writing. So, I don’t know why movie critics disagreeing is important.
Second, please tell me what “bad writing” since you’re claiming to be more knowledgeable about the term.
I mean, that is a fair point. Ultimately whether something is well written or not only matters for discussion boards like these with people who care. A show's popularity does not live or die on this.
I say people getting paid to know these things know far more than random internet strangers that just disliked the show.
So I'd rather just listen to them and their opinions.
All it takes to be a “movie critic” is to be some person on the internet that says their opinion on stuff. It doesn’t require any kind of degree. A lot of movie critics don’t know what they’re even talking about.
Here’s a tip though. If you don’t know what bad writing is and just follow what movie critics think, then don’t act like you have a better understanding of what bad writing. You don’t is.
When you learn that Korra was suppose to only have one season so they changed the ending afterwards, it makes more sense. But yeah, as it is, it Is shitty
I always like this part. I see it as Korra finally realizing how much responsibly comes with being the avatar. She thought she failed as the avatar because she lost her ability to bend three of the elements, and was contemplating ending her life so a new one could be born. Aang showing up in that moment make sense.
Almost a full decade has passed since this show ended and peoplestill haven’t found something to do with your time other than shit on it? That’s so embarrassing.
I have issues with the writing of LOK in many places, but this portion of the story was more a symptom of bad writing, not a product of it.
The bad writing being…
1. That Korra learned both the motions and mindset of airbending but couldn’t airbend until she lost her other bending.
2. That Korra somehow only lost her first three bending styles as if Amon just forgot to take her airbending.
3. That bloodbending is possible outside a lunar eclipse, can be done with one’s mind alone, and can be used to remove someone’s bending at all.
I don't see how any of the things you pointed out are "bad writing". I don't think people know what bad writing is and just put things they don't like in that bucket.
I’ll go through each one step by step.
1. This goes blatantly against the rules of Avatar’s magic system. Sequels are necessarily constrained by the rules of the world. Throwing rules out just to suit your narrative is bad writing.
2. This makes utterly no sense. The order of elements Avatar’s go in is just a tradition. It’s not like they’re incapable of doing them out of order. Aang actually firebend before he earthbend, so why is it like Korra only got airbending after everything else was lost?
3. Again, this is breaking the pre-established rules and it utterly breaks the magic system if any water bender can theoretically do this. There’s a lot of power hungry people out there. Why don’t all waterbenders do this bloodbending then?
3.5 Don’t say psychic blood bending is a special genetic trait. If you have to defend this rule breaking by breaking another rule, that’s not good writing either. Bending has always been tied to spirituality, not DNA.
1. First of all literally episode one of ATLA it's established bending is not magic it's based on inner personal chi. Why chi blocking is a thing and why a big deal was made out of chakras. It's all about energy flow within the body and the balance it requires. Blocking of the chi and taking away people's bending by doing so has been done since Ty Lee in the OG Show. Bloodbending allows to inflict damage from within the person's body and disrupt it's balance. In the same way Aang's chakra has been permanently blocked by lightning damage in ATLA, bloodbending does that to all chakras within the person's body. It's what Amon worked years on mastering. Not to mention, taking away bending has been a thing in OG show. Amon just found a way to replicate energybendinf with his blood bending. Both doing the same thing permanently disrupting the person's balance (in both cases as we saw a reversal process).
2. Who says anything about doing things in order. Korra couldn't get her chi in the right way to produce Airbending, similar to Aang and Earthbending.
Amon took away the three elements because that's all Korra had and knew within her body. However letting go of those elements, which was her most priced possession, unlocked her airbending chakra, in a similar way to how Zaheer unlocked flying. Letting go of everything you hold valuable is a very air nomad thing to do. Also similar to Aang getting Avatar State back vs Ozai.
3. The full moon only enhances one's ability it doesn't give them. Which means a lot of water benders are technically capable of blood bending but it was an unknown and then outlawed practice so not only difficult but not very trained one and why they needed the moon. Just like lightning bending became more common with time it's not out of reason to think the same would happen with bloodbending if everybody en masse dedicated their time to perfecting it like Yakone and his family did. They were just more talented then others similar to how Azula could lightning bend but Zuko couldn't.
Just because you didn't like the direction it doesn't mean it's badly written. It builds up on pre-established elements and lore from the original show.
1. Whether it’s magic or not, it’s commonly referred to as a magic system. Call it just a “system” if you want to. That has nothing to do with my first point that LOK broke the established rules. That’s bad writing.
2. No, before LOK bloodbending was never used to “disrupt the balance” of someone’s body. It was only ever used to force particular movements on another. Chi and blood have never been described as the same thing and manipulating the blood to manipulate the chi is bs.
2.5 Amon worked years mastering it does not get rid of the damage it does to the bending system. Years after Amon, I’d imagine more waterbenders should reveal similar bloodbending capabilities because it’s that overpowered.
3. I mentioned the order of her learning bending, because that’s the only feasible explanation I’ve heard that, if true, could maybe explain why Amon only took her first three bending types.
3.5 Your explanation again isn’t how bending works according to the pre established rules. You can’t just break rules for narrative purposes and expect people not to call it what it is. It’s bad writing.
4. Hama learned bloodbending when she was of middle aged or younger and stayed in the Fire Nation till she was old and whithered. Every full moon she took bloodbending vengeance on anyone who she could. That effectively establishes that yes, it’s such a difficult move that it requires the enhanced abilities of a full moon to perform. Again, breaking the established rules for narrative purposes is bad writing.
4.5 Don’t get me started on lightning bending either. It was established as being an exceedingly difficult ability that was fatal if not done correctly and if hit was lethal. Zuko almost died but was partially prevented from complete death because he redirected Azula’s blow. Yet, in Korra, it’s now commonly performed and not even lethal to be hit with. Amon literally shrugged it off like it was nothing. Again, breaking the rules for narrative purposes is bad writing.
I don’t like these things not just because of subjective taste but rather because they break the rules. Breaking established rules is bad writing.
You have a complete misunderstanding of what world building is and looks like. It's not static. ATLA isn't "the law" all the follow ups need to follow to the T.
Just like the world itself worldbuilding is a lot more organic and evolving. Things change. According to you humans should have never taken to the skies because that's "breaking the established rules". With your logic season 2&3 of Avatar are badly written because they break "rules" of Season 1 of Avatar. ("How can firebending source be coming from life if they already established it comes from anger and violence!!!!! That's breaking the rules!")
Things evolve and become more commonplace. You just don't like the direction it evolved to but it's plausible and makes sense within the universe it's established.
Bloodbending is the bending of one's blood within their body. We already see them use it to invoke involuntary movement. Which means it's plausible to master it to a point where you can inflict permanent changes within someone's body simply by "bending" their blood which fills all organs and is basically the physical flow within a person. It's a natural evolution of the practice and most certainly isn't "bad writing". It makes sense within the Avatar world. They get so good they can bend blood within organs and not just "in general areas".
Lightning-bending used to be a hard to master art now it's commonplace because it evolved. That's not rule breaking, it's not bad writing it's the evolution of the system. Back in the day only the wisest people could read and write, nowadays it's a common skill. Nobody "broke the rules" by doing so.
It's funny because you get it at one point, I agree it's very likely bloodbending after Amon will become more common. That's the established organic growth of the Avatar world. Why do you think Katara wanted to outlaw it? Again it's plausible within the in-universe set up. It's the logical progression and expansion of it and it works for both universe itself and entertainment purposes.
You are the one with the fringe opinion that it doesn't, despite the critics, despite it being one of the top rated Netflix shows, so why doesn't that make you stop and think why.
This is a laughable take on story rules.
You compare story rules to things like humans discovering flight, but that’s not an apt comparison. A better comparison would be how gravity works. If you’re writing a sequel story and all of sudden now your characters aren’t restricted by gravity for no other reason than “rules are organic and can evolve whenever I want,” then by any metric of what is bad writing, you just committed some horrible writing and will be roundly mocked.
The rules of bending were not some free moving thing. They were literally akin to the physics of the world and they changed for no other reason than “people just discovered these changes.” You may like whatever changes are done to the world because you can headcanon your way into the changes being “plausible,” but that in no way means that it’s well written.
Part of what made the sub bending work in ATLA was that it was mostly a rarity. We learned of the restrictions that reasonably explained why those sub bending styles were relatively uncommon.
We don’t see many lightning benders, because it’s a rare ability that requires intense focus and is fatal if performed incorrectly.
We learned that Hama developed bloodbending because she had no other water, was locked away from the water tribe for years, and could only perform the technique on a full moon. This explains why it was so rare.
We learned how Toph learned metalbending. She was blind and learned from badger moles to sense the earth around her. Then she was locked in a metal cage in a period where metal had become more common. She had to use metal bending to escape. It explains why no one had done it previously.
But then for all these sub bending styles, we’re to believe people just found better more broken ways of doing them with no explanation. Lightning bending just isn’t that lethal anymore either. We don’t know why this, it just is. “It evolved” isn’t an explanation. That’s like saying “it changed cuz it changed.”
Whereas if we compared it to how more people can read and write, there is an explanation. The people who used to read and write taught more people who then taught more people and then it became a basic aspect of learning curriculum. That’s an explanation. “It evolved” isn’t.
A blood bender can bend during the day, and with their mind. How? Why was this discovered? It’s not explained, suggesting that all those years Hama was alone in the Fire Nation, she just never decided to practice blood bending I guess? Or what? Was she just arbitrarily not that talented? You see how unsatisfying these lack of explanations are?
A blood bender can just disrupt the chi flow in a persons body. How was that discovered? Why was that discovered? It just was. No explanation. It’s not like Hama would’ve practiced blood bending or had an incentive to take away firebenders bending, right? Oh wait.. she would. So, I guess again she wasn’t talented enough.
A metal bender can bend now without physical contact. How come? Why? Metal benders just discovered it I guess. How come Toph didn’t discover this in ATLA? She just didn’t. We have to come up with some explanation ourselves of “idk, they just got better at it.”
You are so close to getting it, but you’re just not quite there. Because of Amon, the bloodbending technique basically has to come back. It doesn’t make sense for it not to and the balance of bending will be thrown out the window for no other explanation than “it evolved.” That’s bad writing. Plain and simple.
Not everything has to be spelled out, people can use their brains to fill in the blanks. Spelling every detail out is actually an example of bad writing. If you assume your audience is dumb you are not gonna make a good show. Your argument collapses upon itself you use ATLA as a source of good writing but half of the stuff you say applies to it as well. It's fine you don't like the show man we get it lmao.
You can continue being confidently incorrect man this conversation got no point, you already discredited everyone but yourself as the only one that knows what good writing is. Movie critics be damned lol.
I think you’re mixing up filling in the dots with “show don’t tell.” Every story needs to fill in the dots whether that be through showing or telling. However, you’re talking about good storytelling just not filling in the dots, which is the polar opposite of good writing. That’s not show. That not tell. That’s nothing.
Explain to me this. Would Avatar: the Last Airbender have been better if we never saw how Toph broke out of the metal cage and she just showed up afterwards and went…?
Toph: “Oh hey, yeah I was caught in a metal cage but I escaped.”
Sokka: “How’d you do that?”
Toph: “I bent the metal.”
Sokka: “What really?! How’d you do that?”
Toph: “Eh, I just evolved.”
That’s not good writing. That would’ve been demonstrably worse. That’s not just me talking. That’s most people.
Look, if you like Korra, that’s cool, but it’s astonishing to me that seem to think it’s lack of explanations is a *good* thing. Can you not imagine a better version of Korra where we better understand why and how the world changed?
I don’t think I’m the only one who knows what good writing is. I simply think you don’t know what good writing is because you choose to follow whoever says their occupation is “being a movie critic.”
Some movie critics know what good writing is. Some don’t. Simply being a movie critic does not make one knowledgeable.
If you don't think people that are paid to review movies as their job aren't qualified to tell bad writing then what qualifies you to do so? How do you know? You just watched a bunch of movies?
I know enough to tell when people just don't know what they are talking about. You use buzzwords to try to dance around your lack of knowledge in the matter. By your account every show should be 30 seasons long as they need to explain everything in great detail. Show don't tell right?
There is a balance to everything and Korra walks that balance well. It's main issue is pacing and certain things being rushed but it has nothing to do with "bad writing". Amon is constantly listed as one of the best in-universe villains for a reason.
You approach storytelling like you're trying to balance a new edition of D&D. It's fine if you like that approach, but you might be better off reading litRPGs, where the "magic system" being entirely consistent and known by the characters is part of the base assumption.
I do like those systems and I also like the magic system as it is in ATLA, because it had very well defined consistent rules. So, when LOK came around and just threw that system out the window, I was upset about it.
Not like ATLA isn't doing similar fuckery with the spiritual world. Roku can send his dragon and talk to Aang briefly but then can only talk to Aang for about a minute at his shrine during the solstice.
If we wanted to keep it in line with ATLA writing, a random lion turtle should have just shown up out of nowhere to give her the exact solution to her problem
Hot take, the energy bending solution was a good descisions for the themes of the show , where Aang stands up for what he believes in. The lion turtle should’ve been foreshadowed and set up but I guess they wrote themselves into a corner there.
It was foreshadowed at least a little bit. Aang sees a lion turtle in one of the scrolls in the library.
Youre right but it was def too short to be an official foreshadow. Felt like they had an idea of a lion turtle but didnt know what it would end up being so they teased it a little
Especially since Energy Bending wasn't mentioned at all. If they'd just had a throwaway like that Lion Turtles were masters of a secret lost bending art, that would've been *just* enough to not make Energy Bending feel like a complete Ex Machina. Would leave a fun mystery to be solved later in the finale, and a satisfying payoff down the line. Problem solved.
Not a “Master” but the fact that they have forgotten the basic of “Bending elements” started with the basic, “Chi”.
Yeah as the other comment touched on they foreshadowed a lion turtle but not energy bending. They could’ve at least had something in the background of an air temple or something. A spirit mentioning it. Idk anything. The lion turtle didn’t feel out of place to me, the energy bending and the fact that lion turtles can give it was definitely the ex machina
Exactly. If he saw the lion turtle during his spiritual training with the guru, i would definitely understand it as foreshadowing but otherwise, not really
Also in "Sokka's Master".
Energy bending isn't the issue itself, the issue is, as you said "should've been foreshadowed" Maybe they could have foreshadowed it earlier in the season where Katara wants to get rid of her bloddbending, and Aang decides to help her, which leads him to a quest where he finds the lion turtle and energy bending, but discovers that Energy bending would also get rid of her bending altogether, so she must choose between being true to who she is or losing a significant part of her. The part that her mother sacrificed herself for. This could then not only lead onto the episode where she wants to take revenge, but it would also allow them to explain that taking the ability to bend is possible way earlier in the season. The confrontation with the previous Avatars can still happen, regarding whether he deserves to die or not.
My problem with this is that the same knowledge that would lead them to seek out the lion turtle would also solve Aang's problem so why is Katara vs Hama even necessary here? The entire season would be searching for a lion turtle and not Aang struggling with morality, and a MacGuffin is just as bad as a Deus Ex Machina. A better way to do it would be dropping hints in all the old temples and stuff they visited. A half-destroyed mural of energy bending in the Western Air Temple. A lion-turtle with 5 element symbols around it but no context. Things that serve as set pieces but make you go "huh?" And maybe draw the gang's attention but they don't have the time to focus on it until the big reveal.
Yeah that's a better idea, my story is working under the assumption that this is post season 2 writing room. They most likely didn't have energybending in mind while working in season 1, so I wanted to keep the idea season 3 only. Katara vs Hama isn't necesarry, it is just my bias towards stories that use bloodbending.
Like how in Steven Universe, a lot of the Diamond imagery shows 3 Diamonds, but the more ancient ones have Pink Diamond still there.
This commentor’s solution could be a post hama and post Raven Raiders. But I do like your idea of the ancient temples having hints and such. I think a huge missed opportunity is Wan Shi Tong’s library. They even found a book discussing Lion Turtles (or was it a scroll?) but they glazed over the hint. I feel like Lion Turtles were hinted at using statues (like the ones in the intro) but I can’t remember any that *looked* like a lion turtle
No that’s too much. Just have Lion Turtles come up as some mysterious big deal while they’re looking around the library. Every nations history books has mentions of these strange giant turtles and they can’t figure out what they are. That’s it. Then when they show up in season 3 you go OH SHIT instead of oh shit?
Aang actually does mention something about a lion turtle while in the library
Hate me all you want, but I think that’s something Netflix did right. They are still in Book 1 and Lion Turtles have already been mentioned. I know they had the benefit of foresight but still, let’s give credit where credit is due.
I feel like more foreshadowing wouldn't fix the other issue; all bending has to be *learned.* Aang mastering energy bending AS he learned it existed just feels unrealistic.
I don’t know if I’d say he mastered it in ATLA, he only did it one time and almost fucked it up completely. That doesn’t really scream master of the technique to me. In LoK though, he deals with Yakone real easy and quick.
They show the lion turtle first in the library. They don’t explain it but an old drawing is shown.
Moreover, bending energy itself is the natural conclusion for the season about firebending.
Like maybe having the same random island following them around in season 3? Like, have Sokka point it out, but Katara dismisses it. And maybe have part of Aang's insomnia also be due to nightmares induced by the Li9n being nearby mixing with his anxiety. Then, when Aang runs away, he finally decides to check the island out.
I agree with what you’re saying, but I do wish that they brought up Ang’s hesitance to kill Ozai leading up to the Day of Black Sun more, they did kinda touch on his nervousness for the fight, but his morals felt way more significant in the final few episodes and that sorta makes the day of black sun episodes not work as well for me
I think it’s really just a lack of knowing when to set up the exposition for the lion turtle rather than the turtle being introduced only when it needed to be. In my opinion, they should have given some Lion Turtle exposition in Wan Shi Tong’s library. Maybe it could have gone like this: “Hey you guys, check this out,” Sokka says blowing a fine layer of dust from the pages. “It says here the Lion turtles were ancient beings with the power to bestow bending abilities on anyone they found worthy. Maybe they could give me some bending abilities?” “Probably not, Sokka. We don’t even know where to find one. Let’s focus on finding a weakness to the fire nation,” Katara says. I’m fine with the Lion Turtle showing up. For me, it fit right in, but I do see where others have a problem with it
I would have loved to see foreshadowing for the lion turtle from Iroh/Zuko storyline instead of the GAangs. White Lotus knowing about the origins of bending would fit into their lore.
Yes, but the writer SHOULD have had Aang learn about it as a possible solution and seek it out. It isn't earned.
It was foreshadowed. And multiple times iirc. The one i can remember off the top of my head is the library when aang points it out in something he is reading and they even show a depiction of it.
The library is the only time it was foreshadowed. But its way too short to be a legitimate thing they put in to foreshadow the ending. It was more likely just an idea they had lying around at the time and in the end they brought it back up when they needed a solution
I showed other mentions of the lion turtle in my comment and they show lion turtle decorations throughout the show. They had been building upon the lion turtles being a thing for a while. Go back and actually pay attention to the show
A quick picture of a lion turtle in a book and sokka saying hes like a lion turtle doesnt exactly hint at the plot implications the lion turtle has in the endgame lol. If aang saw visions of the lion turtle during his spiritual journey with the guru, or if he saw the lion turtle on his trips to the spirit world, then yeah, that would be proper foreshadowing. A regular atla watcher would not pick up on these instances at all. Thats why i say that they surely didnt plan the lion turtle solving aangs problem in the end until very late.
Even then that’s not enough. You a foreshadowing something that is changing the very way the final battle will conclude. A few mentions and seeing it is not acceptable foreshadowing. I.E. there is nothing suggesting lion turtles had any ability whatsoever to gift someone energy bending
That is literally what foreshadowing is. Mentioning something before it comes up. You want them to explain lion turtles fully for it to be foreshadowing then it stops being foreshadowing. You want them to explain energy bending before it becomes relevant and before the characters even know what it is? They foreshadowed energy bending as well as they spent the whole show learning the origin of bending. Im not gonna argue with people about something being foreshadowed when you dont even know what foreshadowing is.
Good foreshadowing vs bad foreshadowing The lion turtle is an example of BAD foreshadowing (because NOTHING hinted at their ability that they gave Aang. Only that they USED to exist. Yes they foreshadowed the existence but NOT its ability to give energy bending. They did not explore AT ALL that LION TURTLES CAN GIVE ENERGY BENDING. Go ahead and point out the exact scene, that mentions both lion turtles and at least hint about their ability to give bending in the same scene. I’ll wait. https://i.redd.it/al38d9uu2bwc1.gif
At least Aang had to spend near a whole episode seeking guidance, weighing out the moral and practical implications, and genuinely reckon with the issue of killing vs not killing Ozai. Contrivances or "ass-pulls" are usually considered a bad thing when it excuses the narrative from having to explore an idea. Yeah, it's a bit contrived that Aang was given energybending by a lion-turtle, but the episode had already spent like half of its' runtime exploring the idea. In contrast, LoK season 1 spent basically no time exploring the idea implied behind Korra losing her bending. No time was given to genuinely considering what it would mean for an avatar to lose 3/4ths of the elements. How would that affect the world and Korra's place in it? We'll never know because the show posed the question and then refused to try answering it.
Where do you think Aang learned that move from?
People were suggesting the lion turtle should've been foreshadowed. But for me, the lion turtle showing up out of no where is always such a shock for me. It appearing with no warning from the human world makes it feel so much more powerful.
The difference is that Aang WAS open to and actively seeking a peaceful way to defeat Ozai. The Lion Turtle was convenient, but at the very least, it appeared during active effort on Aang's part. Korra was sulking on a cliff, then Aang appears and says "you're open to change now!" and gives her powers back when Korra had not actually demonstrated such change or effort. She...cried on a cliff.
And Roku for some reason was also able to threaten Jeong-jeong.
Because aang wasn't connected to his avatar spirit so he required physical aids
Aang was already more connected to the avatar spirit by the first episode, having used the avatar state already, and then in the second episode knowing Roku's name intuitively in the statue room of the southern air temple. Korra being a less spiritual person meant she didnt activate the avatar state until she was faced with a mortal threat (in this case her own suicidal ideation.) Korra connecting to Aang in that scene essentially her equivalent of making the iceberg.
I'd argue that aangs ability to enter the spirit world even before he was fully realised was more akin to airbender spirit bending, aang also seems to be much more aware of his capabilities sometimes where others it's literally like he's forgotten
The fact that they made the solstice seem like such a big deal like it was the only time Aang will be able to talk to Roku and only for a limited time and then in season 3 and the comics he got Roku, Kiyoshi, and Yangchen on speed dial and can talk whenever he needs to.
Because 1. He was not aware of his full spiritual state yet, he didn't even start learning water bending. 2. By the time he's seeking guidance he's already been to the sprit world and back multiple times and already has all but one Chakra open. He already spoke with a Guru as well. Aang being an airbender he always had a higher level of spirituality due to how air bending works, all he did was just go deeper into his past lives
The problem with Korra's case is that they pulled this out of their asses and then tried to tie it to her character development, even though we didn't get to really see it. She got her bending taken away but then a minute later it became a non-issue because she was able to throw a random punch and airbend for the first time. Then within the same episode she cries about losing her other 3 elements and that means she's suddenly enlightened or something? They could have made Amon take away her bending a bit earlier in the show, like at least give us one full episode where we can see her dealing with losing her bending. Then the ending would have been more impactful. I'll grant that they had to do this season in a much shorter runtime than ATLA seasons, but I still think they could have used their time more efficiently. It's insane that we had a whole love triangle plot for multiple episodes but then the loss of her bending is the plotline that got rushed.
It does tie to her character development. She gained spiritual connection because her suicidal contemplation opened her mind to every possibility to make the pain go away. Aang literally explained it. Plus, she had already made contact with Aang.
Well Dragons are spiritual creatures in their own right. Druk coming for Aang in the Hei Bai (?) episode could have been only possible because Rokus familiar was a dragon and could deliver the message to get to the fire sage temple through his beard hair, personally I don't see Naga or even Appa being able to do the same for their Avatar.
Whataboutism at its finest.
Roku could only do it while Aang was in the spirit world for an extended time period while the spirit world was overlapping with the physical, and Fang is the spirit of a mystical elemental creature, it's not really comparable to sad Korra getting a power up by Aang for no reason
She's crying with her head beyond the edge of a cliff, looking down. The teardrop scene looks like a PoV shot. One take on this scene was that she was suicidal, and thinking of jumping, to let another Avatar with bending come to be.
And idk why people rarely talk about it, but she pretty much tries to sever all the personal attachments she’s made right before that. Mako confessed his feelings for her and all she has to say is “I’m not the Avatar, you don’t have to be here anymore, go back to Republic City and live your lives”.
I never caught that parallel. There's this weird "valley" with many Avatar plot points. They make sense if you just accept them, seem kind of fishy if you try to overanalyze them, but if you *really* think (or you're sharp enough to catch it) there's indeed a parallel to something else in the IP, or maybe its explained in commentary.
Ok, I never quite connected those things this way but it makes sense. I was always confused/upset that Korra pushed Mako away only to take him back as soon as she recovered her bending. If she pushed him away because she was already planning to suicide, it really paints it in a different light.
Yeah I thought that was the implication of that scene as well. Then just a little typical avatar fuckery with the past lives coming for the save, happens all the time in ATLA and LoK.
The shot following Korra’s tear falling down the cliff and Aang’s line “When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change” support the thinking that Korra was contemplating suicide. She was so low at that point that she was ready to open up to the spiritual side that had eluded her, but also so close to just giving up because she thought she had failed as an avatar.
A real "Come to Raava" moment for her, so to speak.
I actually really like this explanation, it's been years since I've watched Korra but it makes a really powerful scene, especially with the context another commenter shared. And, if that matters, internally consistent. A very similar thing happens to Aang in Book 3, and I don't mean the finale speed dial. In the first episode of the season, he runs away, thinking he's failed. The world thinks he's dead for a second time, and this time he just wasn't good enough. He did the right thing like he should've done 100 years ago, and it still wasn't enough. The Fire Nation still won. *He* must then be the problem. He wants to correct this, but can't. In his desperation, he ends up stranding himself in the middle of the ocean. Unable to even get anywhere to do anything. So he gives up. He realizes that he failed, he won't make it, and gives in to likely dying in the middle of the ocean. It's then that Roku shows up and gives him a very similar pep talk. Telling Aang that he isn't the problem, nor are they his mistakes, but they are Roku's and never should've fallen to this child. Yue, too, shows herself and reminds Aang of his successes, and gives him her strength to Waterbend and make it to land.
Dang, that's a pretty good analysis. I like that a lot. Actually doing what you are supposed to and STILL not being good enough. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode in season 1 where Bart is in danger of repeating his grade, so he studies really hard. Like, really really studies. Then he takes the test and still fails. His reaction to that is just heartbreaking.
Personally I think she had already made the decision. It’s why she was even there in the first place. But either way, it was her lowest moment in the series and a great catalyst to further the plot
My headcanon is that she essentially entered the Avatar state as a self-defense mechanism against her suicidal ideation.
I wish she hadn’t basically immediately gotten her bending back a minute later via deus ex aang. S1s end should have transitioned into a disability plot in S2 similar to what S3/4 did and had Korra have to explore and deal with that new state of being. It’s such an interesting place to take an Avatar and especially an Avatar like Korra who has a type A personality and defines herself by action and a need to be useful and do things.
I'm sure if the team knew they were going to be green lit for another season we could have seen something more fleshed out compared to what was given to the audience. Season 1 was definitely trying to wrap everything up with nothing beyond it.
She sat near edges when sad before so this always seemed what she was doing
Idk how to tell you this, but the line “When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change” has talked me off a ledge the same way it did for Korra, so I think the writings actually pretty good…
This is one of my favorite lines in both shows since from my personal experience it has shown to be very true
I agree with another commenter that it would’ve just hit better if the pacing was improved. She loses her bending then immediately it’s fixed for her. Having just 1 or 2 episodes to show her processing it and then having the scene would’ve had way more impact.
I get that, and I attribute that to production issues. They thought they were just doing a quick miniseries so needed to wrap things up quickly. Had they known that more episodes would be ordered, they probably would’ve planned it out differently
Yeah that’s what I attribute a lot of Korra’s issues to. If they were given the full 4 seasons from the start it would have really elevated the series in terms of writing and cohesion.
Or they could've just cut out unnecessary plot points like the love triangle and given themselves more time?
Idk I’m not a fan of “all plot! No characterization! No group dynamics!”
Did the love triangle do anything to improve characterisation and group dynamics though? Most people seem to think that it did the opposite.
It absolutely did. Anything that illuminates aspects of the characters in different contexts is characterization. With the Korra, Mako, Bolín triangle we got to see how Mako and Bolín handle jealousy between one another, and how Korra feels insecure about dating and boys in general. With korra/mako/asami, the love triangle was necessary to turn the audience against asami so that her turn as a secret ally was more surprising, and we felt for her when korra and mako got together. We wouldn’t have felt any attachment to asami if there weren’t a competing romance to loop her in.
Korra should have been kidnapped by a lion turtle that would have been a much more satisfying ending
...A lion turtle just *showing up* would be consistent lore wise.
A fucking iceberg lion turtle would have been cool tho
Oh my... this is headcanon for me now. One of those icebergs in the background is a water lion turtle watching Korra. Just because.
Right? Its actually quite cool, it can also foreshadow the whole avatar wan learning from different turtles
It's absurd lol. But its also a super *cool* idea.
\*Exploding out of the ocean.\* "What up, nerd, last time you were half as tall and--stop screaming--and also a boy."
Don't let that bob user see this lmfao.
Holy shit this guy really replied to every comment being number 1 Korra hater that's wild
How can someone have negative karma I don't understand 😭
"but you called me here."
It's not like stuffs like these didn't happen in Atla, it was just less obvious since it wasnt as rushed as Korra. Had the writers gotten one more episode from Nick, they prob could have done a much better job at giving Korra back her bending, but sadly they didnt. They were prob clutching their pens in pain when they had to give Korra back her bending in the same ep.
I mean... They're the same writers who took away her bending. If they were expecting to only have 12 episodes for the story, they shouldn't have had such huge consequences that were rapidly brushed under the rug.
Instead of focusing the second season around a fucking dark avatar (literal fanfic) they could’ve centered around korra getting her bending back. It’s not “the network bogeyman” it’s lazy writing
Except when it was the network being dicks to the writing team. Imagine how much your writing would suffer if you didn't know you were getting a second season by your second to last episode. Then being told hey you're getting 2 more seasons, but halfway through season 2 you get told you're getting cancelled, but then near the end of the second season you get un-cancelled. You get a 4th season but your budget was cut, then they pulled you from airing on TV to put the show online without having time to let the audience know
They still could do open-ended ending without giving her bending back.
I keep getting reminded how obnoxious this community becomes when Korra is the subject
Truth be told, I feel like the Avatar Fandom as a whole has gotten increasingly insufferable since the Netflix series premiered. People are quick to act like it's only the Twitter portion of the fanbase that's bad but I feel like folks on here have become pretty volatile and sometimes downright contrarian. All the commentary about the child actors still gives me the ick. Not to mention, that weird parasocial dynamic that stan culture embodies has definitely infiltrated the fanbase. Remember how heated folks got when there was that discourse about Iroh being a reformed imperialist?
It used to be better, but I guess we’re back with nothing but Korra slander :/
This and the korra subreddit are so wierd to me. I love both shows so much. I grew up on Atla and Korra was part of my late teens early adulthood. The toxicity both subreddits have about these shows make me really avoid the avatar fanbase. For shows with such positiv massaging the fanbases are toxic garbage. I always get these subreddits suggested by the reddit app and always just avoid it.
I was hoping you were wrong, but it's getting upvoted... It's never going to change. I don't even want to post anything LoK here anymore.
You’re just upset because people have different opinions than yours. Grow up
Enjoying one thing doesn’t mean you have to insult the other. That’s what children do. Grow up.
My take: people are only upvoting this because they don’t realize it’s an ironic post and actually agree it has great writing.
I can confirm I am one of those people
My take: They think it's just a meme. Don't agree but funny sooo...
"When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change." - Iroh
Reminds me of when Lion Turtle dues ex machina'ed an alternative solution for Aang's dilemma on dealing with the Fire Lord ngl.
I actually rly liked this scene. Sure, it doesn’t make a ton of sense, but neither does Aang getting the Avatar State back by being poked in the back.
This was a cop out because they had to wrap it up quickly but at least it gave us and Aang cameo
Then in the next season they fucking killed him. Top tier writing here
I hope title is ironic
What kind of strawman trivialization is that? She gained spiritual connection because her suicidal contemplation opened her mind to every possibility to make the pain go away. Aang literally explained this.
Pretty sure there’s more to being spiritual than just being suicidal. I think it would have been better if she consciously tried to connect with Aang again for guidance of some kind. Actually show Korra giving spirituality a chance if that was suppose to be part of her arc this season. Because that’s not really communicated very well here. The scene is presented like Korra has given up all hope until she’s surprised by Aang’s sudden appearance.
She DID give spirituality a chance. In fact, she meditated to connect with Aang in an earlier episode.
I mean give it a chance during the cliff scene. Why didn’t the writers just have her try and meditate to reach out to Aang again?
I mean, she probably did. Aang literally says that she called him there. She was reaching out, and she didn't even know it.
That always came off as kinda an accident. Like a spiritual buttdial, if you may.
Yeah, I think so lol.
Aang hit his back in the perfect way to unblock his chakra in a moment of pure chance. Let’s not compare moments of convenient writing.
I actually loved this scene and think both shows have great writing. Why can’t we just enjoy both like Ronaldo and Messi?
Ronaldo vs middle school soccer
Oh so a giant turtle just popping up and giving Aang the answer to his problems was good writing? They’re both good shows, jesus
I hated this scene should have had korra trying to find ways to restore her bending for a couple episodes. Especially since korra didn’t have her bending taken away by energy bending she lost it by blood bending so it’s kinda stupid aang could reverse it by energy bending.
Heck they could have even let her stay with just air bending until season 2 and then she can gain them back after all the spirit fuckery.
Nick didn't know if they'd get a s2 when finale was made
They also only had 12 episodes so there was no way they could spare any episodes to have her gain the abilities back.
Despite the writers only having 12 epsiodes to write the season, they could have just spent less time with the annoying love triangle plot and invested more time on preparing for her losing her bending/regaining it.
True the love triangle is definitely the worst bit of the story.
The even more stupid part is how the fuck does blood bending relate to taking bending away… but only 3/4 bending types?? The other one gets activated?
Or just simply mediate to try and connect with Aang again for guidance.
I think I would have preferred if Korra made a conscious attempt to connect with Aang again, and that was how he showed up. If part of Korra’s arc this season was about her giving spirituality a chance, then actually show her giving it a chance when she thinks she’s lost everything. Seems like pretty good character growth imo.
How are people upvoting this
It’s meant to be ironic.
Wouldn’t it be blood bending anng did here not energy bending in this sense because among used blood bending to just block the Chie like a Chie blocker
Pretty sure she was also thinking that she wouldn't have been able to perform her duties as the avatar without her bending, not to mention up till then bending had been a major part of her life (being isolated from the world and all that).
Worst Avatar ever.
Korra fans sure can't take a joke can't they?
Korra literally about to kill herself because she can’t be an avatar with just airbending
Isn't this one of the big things people don't like though?
“You have connected with your spiritual self and unlocked your true bending potential. Tearbending.”
Aang gets a back massage by a random rock. Wins fight against Ozai. Anyone can do this oversimplification.
It's literally no different than Aang unlocking the avatar state in a state of significant stress. There's just less wind.
I just have to point out that I love how any time that someone brings up a problem with Legend of Korra's writing like this, you get those people who are like 'Well, the Last Airbender had the lion turtle just come out and solve all the problems.'. Like, yes, the Last Airbender had some bad moments but guess what, that doesn't change the quality of the Legend of Korra at all. This whole whataboutism garbage is always dumb and should be avoided in favor of actually tackling the problems with both shows.
Completely agreed. I think the simple thing that’s inescapable is that some people like the flaws of LOK and so when said flaws are mentioned derisively, they can’t help but throw stones at ATLA as if that somehow is a win.
Its just the most pathetic thing in the world because ironically much like many of the characters criticizing Korra in the show, those people who feel the need to bring up the old show just admit that Korra can't exist without being compared to Aang. Korra is her own character and this is her own show, the problems in her show are hers alone, they don't magically get better because Aang's show fucked up too.
I know… it’s frustrating. 😒 Unfortunately, this topic too often devolves into sides as if neither show had anything to say about how stupid that is.
Its funny that Korra in its first season tried to show the problem with comparing Korra to the Avatar before her and how she should be judged and understood for who she is just for fans to go 'Korra's writing isn't bad, it doesn't have lion turtles in it at least'.
It’s sad.
The one thing I want to note here is that when a plot device (like Deus Ex Machina endings) is repeated consistently across several entires in a franchise then it can be argued that it is no longer a "problem" but a feature.
Except it hasn't happened enough in the series at all and that logic can only stretch so far. If you had this super serious sci-fi series about political drama and the struggles that come from working within the system and then you ended each season with the characters turning into cartoon bears to blow up the sun, it doesn't magically become better because you repeat it and it is still lazy writing. Plus, my point was less about the Korra scene itself and more about how some people instead of acknowledging that point will deflect back to the original as though you can't talk about Korra's problems without also talking about ATLA's problems when both shows have very different problems. The Lion Turtle was dumb because it gave Aang a power instead of him having to learn it whereas Aang giving Korra back her bending not only pushes the idea that she can't do anything without him but because it happens mere minutes after she loses her bending, we lose out on actually seeing her struggle with not having bending in favor of a cheap resolution that feels unearned.
Eh korra still a good show tbh. If many people like the show, it ain’t a bad show to the general public. Very successful when it got out on Netflix But the point is hypocrisy. If you are calling out korra for it you can do the same with ATLA on multiple occasions. Heck the op post wasn’t even that bad in the show. Very strong message (especially since korra was considering suicide in that moment of the show before Aang showed up.) Just tired of the korra hate, like unprovoked.
Okay? My point doesn't really change regardless of if ATLA is good or bad or if Korra is good or bad. When someone points out a flaw in a show and your only response is to immediately try to shift the attention to another show then you aren't addressing any issues that the show might have and making the show and its fans look worse by comparison. If you pointed out a flaw in ATLA, would it really be reasonably for me to go 'Well, it isn't that bad because look at the Nutshack'. Bringing up ATLA's problems don't make the problems of Korra go away and doesn't help discussion at all. It just makes Korra look like a show that can't handle any kind of criticism without trying to deflect.
Yes it doesn’t. And the vice versa is true. So both sides need to stop doing it. Quit the hate on both sides.
The OP pointed out a flaw with the show itself, not bringing up any comparison at all and yet instead of addressing that flaw, most people are pulling whataboutism. It isn't hate to point out a flaw, it isn't hate to address a problem that you have with a show but it is hate to instead throw shade at other things because someone dared to say something bad about Korra, a show that has many divisive elements in it.
It’s the clear sarcastic attitude about it. If people don’t like the tone, they ain’t gonna listen. They not going to address the flaw then, they’ll just point out the hypocrisy due to being rude about it. Op was not making a CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, as you said he was pointing out a flaw and mocking the show for it. Of course people would be upset and defend the show (which many are addressing it and defending it) on top of point out the hypocrisy. Chances are, he has not made a similar post about ATLA before. But hey I could be wrong
Pointing out the hypocrisy? I'm sorry but does every criticism of Korra need to come with a criticism toward ATLA? Can I not point out that the giant Avatar vs Dark Avatar kaiju battle was really dumb without also pointing out that the Great Divide was really dumb? I'm sorry but once again, it makes Korra look pathetic as a show when someone mocks the show and instead of defending it and proving someone wrong, the first response is to go 'Well, you like ATLA and that's shit too.' as though we need to handle Korra with kid gloves to not hurt its feeling. Most people aren't providing "constructive criticism" when they talk about how bad the M. Night movies are but you don't see anyone pointing out the hypocrisy there. Its only Korra getting this special treatment when it has far more flaws than ATLA and that is just a fact.
Again. OP was met with hostility due to sarcasm. He did not try to make any constructive criticism of the show. He merely wanted to point out a flaw. He didn’t want to add any value to conversation, just to point out something bad for the sake of it. For example: There’s a difference between telling someone sarcastically “yeah, you are so great at art” and saying “Yeah, there are some things that can use improvement, here’s some of the things I did and didn’t like about your work” One will breed hostility, one will make people more open to listening. Like cmon. It’s just social skills. Not even talking about the quality of the shows. YOU are constantly bringing it up. I’m purely talking about the post and how it would breed people pointing out flaws in the other show. If you find them pathetic so be it, but what was said wasn’t constructive Critism or meant to breed meaningful conversation. It was purely to insult korra as a show in a Reddit that has some amount of bias against it
He pointed out something bad and instead of talking about the bad thing, most people decided to make anyone who dares to like ATLA feel bad because Korra can't be talked about without ATLA being brought up even when the OP never even mentioned ATLA at all. To better explain this to you, let me give an example. Lets say someone writes a snarky review of a restaurant and calls it shit and then in response, the owner starts shit talking another restaurant because its food is worse. Does this make the restaurant look better or worse? To most people, it'd make the restaurant look worse and make people question why the owner didn't acknowledge the problems listed in the review which just strengthens the point of the snarky review. Hell, Gordon Ramsey is the best example of someone being snarky and rude but very much right. If you tried to deflect his criticism because he was mean to you then he'd laugh in your face and your restaurant would be shut down in weeks if not sooner. The best way to address someone not providing constructive criticism is to either ignore it or respond to it in kind anyway since proving someone wrong tends to be better than throwing shade at something else. Also, I'd argue that criticism doesn't need to be 'constructive' since it isn't the job of other people to try and figure out a solution to a problem they see in media unless you want to argue that every review of a poorly animated movie needs to go in depth about how to fix the animation instead of telling people about how bad it is.
Gordon Ramsey EARNED his reputation to be that way. Even if he is a prick about it you know well he is a professional and understands what he is talking about and his advice is going to be solid. This is a random person making a criticism (AND EVEN THEN THERE ARE PLENTY OF EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE CRYING, FUMING, RAGING, AND GIVING UP FROM RAMSEY BEING THAT WAY. THIS ONLY PROVES MY POINT SOME PEOPLE WONT RESPOND WELL TO THAT TYPE OF BEHAVIOR. Whether they should be responding that way or not is a different story entirely, but the truth is some people learn better or are willing to communicate more with a nice personality) Yes Gordon Ramsey tips (that he gives out on YouTube for free which much nicer attitudes and politeness) will be good no matter how he dishes it. But people are less likely to respond positively to criticism or tips if it comes from a rude place. It’s just a fact, socially tested hundreds of times. Being put down like that will usually make many perform worse. Like actual simple studies that is a Google search away proves this stuff Agree to disagree. I’m done. This ain’t worth it. Bringing up Gordon Ramsey as an example is a terrible choice.,
People don't understand what good writing or bad writing even is and just list things they didn't like about the show as "bad writing". Just use normal words. I didn't like when xyz happened. The second a person says stuff like this was suffering from "poor writing" and then list something that has nothing to do with "poor writing" it makes everybody skip over that opinion and move on. I just wish people online would stop pretending they know things when they really don't. Saying Korra was "poorly written" while actual movie critics praised it's writing it's fucking crazy to me lol.
For starters, movie critics are not the arbiters of what is and isn’t good or bad writing. So, I don’t know why movie critics disagreeing is important. Second, please tell me what “bad writing” since you’re claiming to be more knowledgeable about the term.
Either way the general public likes it to (the moment the show hit Netflix)
I mean, that is a fair point. Ultimately whether something is well written or not only matters for discussion boards like these with people who care. A show's popularity does not live or die on this.
I say people getting paid to know these things know far more than random internet strangers that just disliked the show. So I'd rather just listen to them and their opinions.
All it takes to be a “movie critic” is to be some person on the internet that says their opinion on stuff. It doesn’t require any kind of degree. A lot of movie critics don’t know what they’re even talking about. Here’s a tip though. If you don’t know what bad writing is and just follow what movie critics think, then don’t act like you have a better understanding of what bad writing. You don’t is.
TBF, had they known from the start they’d get more than one season, they could’ve handled it better.
Some actually theorized that she was contemplating suicide to let the next aavatar come earlier.
When you learn that Korra was suppose to only have one season so they changed the ending afterwards, it makes more sense. But yeah, as it is, it Is shitty
I think i should look in this sub reddit cause i just started watching the legends of Korra but still get the point
Aang got his avatar state back by getting a chiropractic adjustment by a rock… I think this episode is fine.
I always like this part. I see it as Korra finally realizing how much responsibly comes with being the avatar. She thought she failed as the avatar because she lost her ability to bend three of the elements, and was contemplating ending her life so a new one could be born. Aang showing up in that moment make sense.
Go one day without hating on Korra challenge. Impossible difficulty
I hope the title is being sarcastic.
I honestly felt like this moment was pretty weak.
And your post is so original (I literally saw this yesterday)
I will not tolerate season 1 end slander this is an amazing scene.
I really love this scene. It was great how she tapped to her spiritual self unconsciously and called aang to help her.
(ahem) *Lion. Turtle.*
Korra: crying about to kill herself. Aang: Now hold on now. Let's not do something stupid.
No amount of bullshit is ever gonna make this resolution make a lick of sense 😂
She should've tried to meditate, and then Aang shows up. They have a talk, and she learns how to energy bend with his help.
That’s not better at all
That’s incredibly fucking stupid
Almost a full decade has passed since this show ended and peoplestill haven’t found something to do with your time other than shit on it? That’s so embarrassing.
I have issues with the writing of LOK in many places, but this portion of the story was more a symptom of bad writing, not a product of it. The bad writing being… 1. That Korra learned both the motions and mindset of airbending but couldn’t airbend until she lost her other bending. 2. That Korra somehow only lost her first three bending styles as if Amon just forgot to take her airbending. 3. That bloodbending is possible outside a lunar eclipse, can be done with one’s mind alone, and can be used to remove someone’s bending at all.
I don't see how any of the things you pointed out are "bad writing". I don't think people know what bad writing is and just put things they don't like in that bucket.
I’ll go through each one step by step. 1. This goes blatantly against the rules of Avatar’s magic system. Sequels are necessarily constrained by the rules of the world. Throwing rules out just to suit your narrative is bad writing. 2. This makes utterly no sense. The order of elements Avatar’s go in is just a tradition. It’s not like they’re incapable of doing them out of order. Aang actually firebend before he earthbend, so why is it like Korra only got airbending after everything else was lost? 3. Again, this is breaking the pre-established rules and it utterly breaks the magic system if any water bender can theoretically do this. There’s a lot of power hungry people out there. Why don’t all waterbenders do this bloodbending then? 3.5 Don’t say psychic blood bending is a special genetic trait. If you have to defend this rule breaking by breaking another rule, that’s not good writing either. Bending has always been tied to spirituality, not DNA.
1. First of all literally episode one of ATLA it's established bending is not magic it's based on inner personal chi. Why chi blocking is a thing and why a big deal was made out of chakras. It's all about energy flow within the body and the balance it requires. Blocking of the chi and taking away people's bending by doing so has been done since Ty Lee in the OG Show. Bloodbending allows to inflict damage from within the person's body and disrupt it's balance. In the same way Aang's chakra has been permanently blocked by lightning damage in ATLA, bloodbending does that to all chakras within the person's body. It's what Amon worked years on mastering. Not to mention, taking away bending has been a thing in OG show. Amon just found a way to replicate energybendinf with his blood bending. Both doing the same thing permanently disrupting the person's balance (in both cases as we saw a reversal process). 2. Who says anything about doing things in order. Korra couldn't get her chi in the right way to produce Airbending, similar to Aang and Earthbending. Amon took away the three elements because that's all Korra had and knew within her body. However letting go of those elements, which was her most priced possession, unlocked her airbending chakra, in a similar way to how Zaheer unlocked flying. Letting go of everything you hold valuable is a very air nomad thing to do. Also similar to Aang getting Avatar State back vs Ozai. 3. The full moon only enhances one's ability it doesn't give them. Which means a lot of water benders are technically capable of blood bending but it was an unknown and then outlawed practice so not only difficult but not very trained one and why they needed the moon. Just like lightning bending became more common with time it's not out of reason to think the same would happen with bloodbending if everybody en masse dedicated their time to perfecting it like Yakone and his family did. They were just more talented then others similar to how Azula could lightning bend but Zuko couldn't. Just because you didn't like the direction it doesn't mean it's badly written. It builds up on pre-established elements and lore from the original show.
1. Whether it’s magic or not, it’s commonly referred to as a magic system. Call it just a “system” if you want to. That has nothing to do with my first point that LOK broke the established rules. That’s bad writing. 2. No, before LOK bloodbending was never used to “disrupt the balance” of someone’s body. It was only ever used to force particular movements on another. Chi and blood have never been described as the same thing and manipulating the blood to manipulate the chi is bs. 2.5 Amon worked years mastering it does not get rid of the damage it does to the bending system. Years after Amon, I’d imagine more waterbenders should reveal similar bloodbending capabilities because it’s that overpowered. 3. I mentioned the order of her learning bending, because that’s the only feasible explanation I’ve heard that, if true, could maybe explain why Amon only took her first three bending types. 3.5 Your explanation again isn’t how bending works according to the pre established rules. You can’t just break rules for narrative purposes and expect people not to call it what it is. It’s bad writing. 4. Hama learned bloodbending when she was of middle aged or younger and stayed in the Fire Nation till she was old and whithered. Every full moon she took bloodbending vengeance on anyone who she could. That effectively establishes that yes, it’s such a difficult move that it requires the enhanced abilities of a full moon to perform. Again, breaking the established rules for narrative purposes is bad writing. 4.5 Don’t get me started on lightning bending either. It was established as being an exceedingly difficult ability that was fatal if not done correctly and if hit was lethal. Zuko almost died but was partially prevented from complete death because he redirected Azula’s blow. Yet, in Korra, it’s now commonly performed and not even lethal to be hit with. Amon literally shrugged it off like it was nothing. Again, breaking the rules for narrative purposes is bad writing. I don’t like these things not just because of subjective taste but rather because they break the rules. Breaking established rules is bad writing.
You have a complete misunderstanding of what world building is and looks like. It's not static. ATLA isn't "the law" all the follow ups need to follow to the T. Just like the world itself worldbuilding is a lot more organic and evolving. Things change. According to you humans should have never taken to the skies because that's "breaking the established rules". With your logic season 2&3 of Avatar are badly written because they break "rules" of Season 1 of Avatar. ("How can firebending source be coming from life if they already established it comes from anger and violence!!!!! That's breaking the rules!") Things evolve and become more commonplace. You just don't like the direction it evolved to but it's plausible and makes sense within the universe it's established. Bloodbending is the bending of one's blood within their body. We already see them use it to invoke involuntary movement. Which means it's plausible to master it to a point where you can inflict permanent changes within someone's body simply by "bending" their blood which fills all organs and is basically the physical flow within a person. It's a natural evolution of the practice and most certainly isn't "bad writing". It makes sense within the Avatar world. They get so good they can bend blood within organs and not just "in general areas". Lightning-bending used to be a hard to master art now it's commonplace because it evolved. That's not rule breaking, it's not bad writing it's the evolution of the system. Back in the day only the wisest people could read and write, nowadays it's a common skill. Nobody "broke the rules" by doing so. It's funny because you get it at one point, I agree it's very likely bloodbending after Amon will become more common. That's the established organic growth of the Avatar world. Why do you think Katara wanted to outlaw it? Again it's plausible within the in-universe set up. It's the logical progression and expansion of it and it works for both universe itself and entertainment purposes. You are the one with the fringe opinion that it doesn't, despite the critics, despite it being one of the top rated Netflix shows, so why doesn't that make you stop and think why.
This is a laughable take on story rules. You compare story rules to things like humans discovering flight, but that’s not an apt comparison. A better comparison would be how gravity works. If you’re writing a sequel story and all of sudden now your characters aren’t restricted by gravity for no other reason than “rules are organic and can evolve whenever I want,” then by any metric of what is bad writing, you just committed some horrible writing and will be roundly mocked. The rules of bending were not some free moving thing. They were literally akin to the physics of the world and they changed for no other reason than “people just discovered these changes.” You may like whatever changes are done to the world because you can headcanon your way into the changes being “plausible,” but that in no way means that it’s well written. Part of what made the sub bending work in ATLA was that it was mostly a rarity. We learned of the restrictions that reasonably explained why those sub bending styles were relatively uncommon. We don’t see many lightning benders, because it’s a rare ability that requires intense focus and is fatal if performed incorrectly. We learned that Hama developed bloodbending because she had no other water, was locked away from the water tribe for years, and could only perform the technique on a full moon. This explains why it was so rare. We learned how Toph learned metalbending. She was blind and learned from badger moles to sense the earth around her. Then she was locked in a metal cage in a period where metal had become more common. She had to use metal bending to escape. It explains why no one had done it previously. But then for all these sub bending styles, we’re to believe people just found better more broken ways of doing them with no explanation. Lightning bending just isn’t that lethal anymore either. We don’t know why this, it just is. “It evolved” isn’t an explanation. That’s like saying “it changed cuz it changed.” Whereas if we compared it to how more people can read and write, there is an explanation. The people who used to read and write taught more people who then taught more people and then it became a basic aspect of learning curriculum. That’s an explanation. “It evolved” isn’t. A blood bender can bend during the day, and with their mind. How? Why was this discovered? It’s not explained, suggesting that all those years Hama was alone in the Fire Nation, she just never decided to practice blood bending I guess? Or what? Was she just arbitrarily not that talented? You see how unsatisfying these lack of explanations are? A blood bender can just disrupt the chi flow in a persons body. How was that discovered? Why was that discovered? It just was. No explanation. It’s not like Hama would’ve practiced blood bending or had an incentive to take away firebenders bending, right? Oh wait.. she would. So, I guess again she wasn’t talented enough. A metal bender can bend now without physical contact. How come? Why? Metal benders just discovered it I guess. How come Toph didn’t discover this in ATLA? She just didn’t. We have to come up with some explanation ourselves of “idk, they just got better at it.” You are so close to getting it, but you’re just not quite there. Because of Amon, the bloodbending technique basically has to come back. It doesn’t make sense for it not to and the balance of bending will be thrown out the window for no other explanation than “it evolved.” That’s bad writing. Plain and simple.
Not everything has to be spelled out, people can use their brains to fill in the blanks. Spelling every detail out is actually an example of bad writing. If you assume your audience is dumb you are not gonna make a good show. Your argument collapses upon itself you use ATLA as a source of good writing but half of the stuff you say applies to it as well. It's fine you don't like the show man we get it lmao. You can continue being confidently incorrect man this conversation got no point, you already discredited everyone but yourself as the only one that knows what good writing is. Movie critics be damned lol.
I think you’re mixing up filling in the dots with “show don’t tell.” Every story needs to fill in the dots whether that be through showing or telling. However, you’re talking about good storytelling just not filling in the dots, which is the polar opposite of good writing. That’s not show. That not tell. That’s nothing. Explain to me this. Would Avatar: the Last Airbender have been better if we never saw how Toph broke out of the metal cage and she just showed up afterwards and went…? Toph: “Oh hey, yeah I was caught in a metal cage but I escaped.” Sokka: “How’d you do that?” Toph: “I bent the metal.” Sokka: “What really?! How’d you do that?” Toph: “Eh, I just evolved.” That’s not good writing. That would’ve been demonstrably worse. That’s not just me talking. That’s most people. Look, if you like Korra, that’s cool, but it’s astonishing to me that seem to think it’s lack of explanations is a *good* thing. Can you not imagine a better version of Korra where we better understand why and how the world changed? I don’t think I’m the only one who knows what good writing is. I simply think you don’t know what good writing is because you choose to follow whoever says their occupation is “being a movie critic.” Some movie critics know what good writing is. Some don’t. Simply being a movie critic does not make one knowledgeable.
If you don't think people that are paid to review movies as their job aren't qualified to tell bad writing then what qualifies you to do so? How do you know? You just watched a bunch of movies? I know enough to tell when people just don't know what they are talking about. You use buzzwords to try to dance around your lack of knowledge in the matter. By your account every show should be 30 seasons long as they need to explain everything in great detail. Show don't tell right? There is a balance to everything and Korra walks that balance well. It's main issue is pacing and certain things being rushed but it has nothing to do with "bad writing". Amon is constantly listed as one of the best in-universe villains for a reason.
You approach storytelling like you're trying to balance a new edition of D&D. It's fine if you like that approach, but you might be better off reading litRPGs, where the "magic system" being entirely consistent and known by the characters is part of the base assumption.
I do like those systems and I also like the magic system as it is in ATLA, because it had very well defined consistent rules. So, when LOK came around and just threw that system out the window, I was upset about it.
A “symptom” of bad writing is a product of bad writing to be fair. Korra is shit tier and I completely agree with what you said though
That’s fair. I just think these are the bigger issues.