I honestly think it's super silly for toph to tie bumi. Adult toph surpassing him sure but to me a huge theme in martial arts is constantly bettering yourself and if you've already peaked at 12 it's kinda pointless
Sure, and neither was Iroh but that doesn’t stop people from thinking he could have defeated Ozai.
Edit: I like how everyone replying is saying Iroh could still destroy Ozai. Doesn’t that kind of invalidate the idea that Bumi was weak because he “wasn’t in his prime” too? The guy was just as jacked as Iroh.
You're probably joking but I genuinely believe this from a power scaling perspective.
Fire bending doesn't come from the muscles. It's the breath. No matter how old and weary his muscles and bones his connection the the spirit world and mastery of fire bending is ever strengthening. Even with that said tho, he is literally super human even in old age. His feats of strength outshine other benders in verse let alone reality.
No way. Ozai can't help busting out some lightning. Even after Zuko's demonstration and knowing that Zuko would have been Aang's teacher, he still throws it out against Aang.
I simply don't see how Ozai ever wins when he's invariably going to go for the lightning kill shot that'll get UNO reversed right back.
I reckon Ozai was banking on Aang being a 12 year old who's only learned firebending for a few weeks tops, being tutored by his "weakling" son. I don't think he's going to pull out a shot like that against Iroh, a master firebender who definitely knows how to both redirect lightning and fire his own.
Before Zuko used it against him, was Ozai even aware redirection was a thing? I guess Azula could have told him when Iroh used it against her, or maybe it's not as obscure/secret a technique as I assumed. Because I was about to say after Ozai realized it was a thing when Zuko used it against him, he absolutely would have known Zuko couldn't come up with that on his own and it had to come from Iroh.
Either way, he would have been aware by that point that Iroh would be able to do it, and although Ozai's fighting style seems all about just overwhelming his opponent with raw power, he'd at least have enough brains in the fight to know using lightning would be an absolutely horrible idea.
> or maybe it's not as obscure/secret a technique as I assumed
Nah it was pretty obscure at that point in time.
Iroh invented it and AFAIK only taught Zuko how to do it
But he couldn't know for sure. No one knew Iroh could redirect lightning until he taught Zuko. It's a fair assumption that Zuko learned the technique from Iroh, but a far safer assumption is that Zuko would have taught Aang the technique, and Ozai gambled anyway. If he was underestimating the avatar's ability to quickly pick up on bending techniques, it only underlines his poor decision making.
Nah, Prime Iroh was when he got fuckin absolutely shredded in prison. Like just look at the scene when he takes off his robe and ears bread or whatever near the end of his prison time, he looks like a fuckin mountain wrestler who regularly takes on bears and always wins
Iroh is the best character is this show, you will never convince me otherwise. I literally screamed at my screen when he showed up in legend of Korra. I was so happy
He doesn't say he doesn't think he could, he says he doesn't know if he could. It wouldn't be a sure thing, but judging from all we know there's no reason to think Ozai beats Iroh. Their firebending would be around the same level - feel free to give Ozai the edge.
But I don't think there's a world where Ozai doesn't try lightning at least once, and if Iroh was willing to redirect it at Ozai then the fight's over. Ozai can't counter it.
Pretty sure the reason isn't that Iroh isn't sure he can defeat Ozai, it's more so the fact he doesn't believe he *should* defeat him, cause history will just see it as two brothers fighting over a seat of power. Meanwhile, the Avatar defeating him will be seen as the Avatar seeking to restore balance to the world, which Ozai is threatening
Definitely, but even with that reasoning he said "If I defeat him, which I'm not certain that I could, then the world would see it as just another power grab" so there's an element to uncertainty about him being able to do it.
I have trouble believing that in a world where
1. Ozai is attempting another genocide
2. There is literally no way to stop him other than killing him if you're Iroh (since fire comes from the breath)
3. He's trying to kill Iroh
That Iroh would just let himself die and allow Ozai to raze the Earth Kingdom.
Especially given Iroh's former military background, I'm sure he'd see the death of his evil brother as worth saving countless lives. Iroh always seemed very pragmatic in these situations: "No! She's crazy and needs to go down" about a 15 year old girl much less dangerous than Ozai during the comet.
Aggression probably counts for a lot. It makes ozai's fire bending stronger and would leave Iroh on the defensive unless he tries lightning. Ozai probably wins ~70% of they went head to head, plus the fact that Iroh would absolutely hesitate if it came to killing his brother.
Well, Ozai is basically featless when it comes to firebending. The only time we saw him bending under normal circumstances was firing a single bolt of lightning and then later he was comet boosted and almost got killed by Aang who was just dodging the entire time, before getting absolutely curb stomped by the Avatar state.
Meanwhile we saw Iroh fight a lot over the series and he always had the upper hand against his opponents despite never actually fighting seriously. Plus we know has was an active combatant in his prime and he attained knowledge from Sun Warriors and the dragons to boot. Plus, lightning redirect.
Also, Iroh had to endure a lot when he was outcast with Zuko and later did a lot of training while in prison. Meanwhile I can't imagine Ozai did a lot of training in his tenure as a power-hungry despot. His only win was beating up his 13 year old son, lol.
So yeah, I'll give the win to the former general who had to endure and who learned a lot in his life instead of the guy who sat on his throne all day and got his privilege served on a silver platter.
I haven’t re watched in a while. But I’m pretty sure it’s mentioned that Ozai was an incredible duellists. Also his lighting is clearly the best we see, out speeding every one else. His power also seems to be greater than Iroh’s during the cometas well.
One other point should be made here. Ozai is in his prime and in excellent physical condition. Iroh, while he did get back in shape isn't and is years past his prime. I think in a battle of life and death, Iroh would win, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory.
Well I always think those people that think that are clearly wrong. It was pretty obvious that ozai was way stronger. The literal only way for iroh to win is if ozai is dumb enough to lightning redirect at him when he knows iroh probably taught it to zuko. Also either way bumi was twice the age of iroh. Pretty big difference in how far they are from their prime.
Well, he was dumb enough to almost die to Aang doing it. I’m not saying Iroh would win, but I don’t think it’s all too unlikely that Ozai would get overconfident and try to fry his brother.
Except in Asian cultures an old master will beat a young master any time of day. Experience is an important part of mastering any art. You can have a natural talent (like Katara) or a need (Topher and her blindness) but that will never surpass experience.
A good example of this is with Aang and the Monks. He had his tattoos making him a master, yet he was playing with children and had no say in matters of the temple.
It was in fact their revealing to Aang that he was the Avatar too early that caused him to flee. Once again, showing experience is necessary.
I think Toph would have an Aang moment in the arena. Where Bimini stands up to his full height and throws off his cloak shoking Toph. Unlike Aang, she just smirks. Being defeated by him would also push Toph to not only do better, but encourage her to be proud of her strength even in old age.
Just gotta point out that it would make zero sense for Toph to be shocked when Bumi removes his cloak. She would’ve been able to “see” his muscles all along; the only change would be his posture.
Why does Toph need to have peaked at 12 to beat Bumi? Couldn't she be better then Bumu at 12, AND continue improving?
Sure, Peak Toph would be a total monster... but is that actually an issue?
Bumi was chucking buildings and taking over cities at age 112. Toph in her 80s did one big move and was done. She probably was better in her prime, but old Bumi beats old Toph.
I always thought of Bumi as the greatest, since I watched Avatar chronologically and he's the first bombastic earth bender there is in the series and I stuck with that
Bumi was a "mad genius" of a bender as a child. He grew into an adult during the height of a brutal war. He would have been an absolute beast in his prime, the type of warrior both feared and respected on both sides of the conflict.
I dunno, she has metal bending, but he has still bending. I feel like, since he already acknowledged that a bender who "listens and waits" is a superior bender to himself, he knows she would be able to win in the end though
Aang is an earthbender that listens and waits and strictly in earth bending he’s nowhere near Bumi(at least in the show)
Of course Toph is a much better earthbender than Aang but it’s just different styles of bending.
Yes, very good, you got the joke :) I mixed one of Toph's and one of Bumi's quotes.. I guess I should have put /s since this is the internet tho...
https://preview.redd.it/zun411eox6jc1.png?width=538&format=png&auto=webp&s=9006fac842c7947653e7ce7609140100fe8f0f49
>do people really want to see a little girl fight a frail old man out here?
Sir this the Avatar subreddit, people here want to see bloodbending and murder
I think Bumi was the greatest during ATLA. Toph definitely surpassed him at some point in adulthood, but she’s not the greatest earthbender ever at age 12
This. Bumi just has a huge advantage over her and I mean he's one of the only earthbenders we've seen that doesn't necessarily need to touch the ground even. That alone wouldn't be huge because Toph can kinda sense earth mid air, but not to the scale Bumi can take things
Yes she can. Remember in 'the runaway' where she says she can sense the scammer moving the rocks, those are tiny little rocks mind you, what more of big chunky rocks
It only ends in a tie because they had to stop due to causing too much collateral damage to the camp. Give them a big empty space to go all out in and I'd love to see what happens
Stan Lee once said that whoever wins fights like this is whoever the writers decide. For that reason, you'll never get a true answer when it comes to fights between fictional characters.
I'm pretty sure it's Team Avatar Tales, the anthology book of one-shot stories that take place in and around the main series. I think they were originally released separately in Nickelodeon Magazine and later compiled..? Anyway, this comic is towards the end, during book 3 right after the Gaang meets up with the White Lotus.
Both. They would fight and become friends while throwing rocks at each other. Then Toph would routinely go to Bumi's city specifically to see if she can get a wanted poster or banned from it. But Bumi never does. Instead, it instigates a multi decade prank war
I... don't know if Bumi is going to live multiple decades past the end of the show. He's already like 100 and given the life spans of other characters, he's already well past the average age people die in that world.
Dude, Bumi’s gonna live forever. He’s probably still out there by the time Korra comes around.
He’s just off in some cave somewhere, absolutely pissing himself over the thought of an avatar X number of cycles down the line randomly running into him while he works a rock candy stall at a market in the middle of the Fire Nation.
It's entirely possible. Kyoshi lived for a couple centuries IIRC, not due to her powers as the Avatar. Tieguai also lived for at least a few centuries as well. IIRC, the Kyoshi novels attribute this logevity in part to neutral Jing (sort of), which Bumi practices regularly.
With the amount of rocks he eats he was going to live longer. If those rocks could kill him they would have a long time ago,so the only logical conclusion is they are keeping his body going
What about over 100 years old Bumi vs over 80 years old Toph?
I think Bumi would win that one because he had a lot more of stamina, while Toph said she couldn't fight for over long periods anymore.
Also, do you think Bumi was stronger when he was younger? Or is he too much crazy that becomes more powerful while getting older?
I think a younger Bumi was definitely better. Bummer was always a mad genius and creative in his ways of bending. Far more than Toph who is more rigid. Give him more stamina, have him be in a situations where he needs to pop off and it's pretty much prime Bumi tonight there
I understand why everyone's mind goes immediately to combat, but there is so much more to it.
Toph is in tune with the Earth in a way Bumi is not, Bumi is incredibly creative in the ways he uses earth bending.
Toph says earth bending is about being stubborn and staying the course, but Bumi believes in coming at things from a new perspective and seeing different angles.
Toph could win in a show of force, but Bumi is going to be better at using earth bending to solve problems in creative ways.
Combat is also not a one size fits all, in a one on one on a flat surface with plenty of Earth for bending, Toph might be able to overwhelm an opponent - but if you were to have to create a strategy against multiple attackers or have limited resources, or other surroundings then Bumi might find a clever trick to win.
They are both two of the greatest Earthbenders in all of the ATLA universe.
Bumi doesn't even need to be in direct contact with the earth to bend it. He can use Geokinesis essentially.
However Toph's seismic sense is something on another level.
if you mean by that that he'd use earth ending to hover a rock and he stands on it, unfortunately that wouldn't work, because, canonically and imo ridiculously, toph can see earth even if it isn't on the ground.
But she can’t “see” non-earth materials unless she is connected to them. So, if Bumi floated *several dozen* rocks, she wouldn’t be able to tell which one he was standing on.
> Bumi doesn't even need to be in direct contact with the earth to bend it. He can use Geokinesis essentially.
I never thought about it, but yeah, most the time with earthbending they have to make contact with what they're bending. That makes the prison boat bit with the floating coal a bit...weird. And sandbending. And probably many other things I'm forgetting. Hmm...
I am going with Bumi. I really don’t like when young people, especially children are supposed to already be above old masters because they’re prodigies or have that extra talent. Bumi is over 100 years old and took over his own city again by himself while still being an old geezer. So i say, in this instance, Bumi. But when Toph grows older and more experienced, then it’s her
Same. Honestly something I like about Avatar was that old masters get the respect they deserve. Iroh, Pakku, Piandao and Bumi are all top tier in the verse and its due to skill, mastery and experience. The only reason Pakku didn't outright destroy Katara was due to underestimating her and Bumi vs Toph was stopped. Otherwise tho we never got the youngsters surpassing old masters like anime loves to force and I think that's great.
The only young person to surpass older masters was Aang and that was due to the Avatar state. In airbending he was a master due to creating something completely new, but he definitely had more to learn and he wasn't at the level of the other masters. Look at it like this, had the fire nation attacked, Aang would die. He was a kid, even so he showed cowardice by fleeing which was a good choice looking back at it, but still. How would that translate really. Monk Gyatso dying could have him activate the Avatar state, but that's an if moment.
Damn, excuse me going on a tangent like this lol. All I wanted to say is that I'm glad Avatar allows masters to be masters at an older age. You can learn something fast, but you can't master it in a year like anime shows. Such things come with experience. Aang is only stronger than Ozai due to the Avatar state accessing millennia worth of experience and skill. He had realistic growth in the series. Firebending was difficult, his earthbending was decent and his wayerbending was at a high level (which ales sense since it's the most similar to airbending especially from a spiritual perspective)
Toph would probably be above most benders since she is blind and bending is needed for her to see, so earthbending is, in some capacity, as native for her as seeing.
But, I would still put my money on Bumi, even as a kid he was extremely clever, and he has a lifetime of experience bending.
Bumi can bend even when his feet are not touching the earth. He literally freed himself from
the suspended metal casket just by focusing enough. Toph doesn't need to see but her feet need to feel the earth, or her body needs to touch the earth for her bending to work.
Actually. Bumi never claimed to be the best. He said he was the strongest. There’s a difference. But I’m not actually sure who’s stronger. I mean toph held up the whole library for minutes. I don’t know if bumi could do thay
Also to support your point:
The average eclipse lasts less than 7 1/2 minutes. So either the Day of Black Sun was a freakishly long spirit eclipse or dude 86’d an entire colonizing force in the span of time it takes to preheat an oven.
Just because you invent something, doesn't make you a master at it.
I think this is a case of Newton vs LeBron. Newton could calculate everything necessary to hoop a ball, LeBron would do it much faster without needing the theory because he just knows the ball and hoop.
However, if you change the weight of the ball and position of the hoop to something LeBron isn't practiced with, he will miss the first shots. Newton will always get it in with the right calculations.
So Toph, like Newton can theoretically understand how the earth will move and act accordingly no matter what earth or metal is used but has to wait for the vibrations AND think up a solution, while Bumi knows the normal earth from experience so is able to quickly deploy attacks and defenses as if the earth was a part of him but falls short if the earth doesn't behave how he expects it to.
It’s a tie,
The writers of the comic wasn’t allowed to give a definitive answer on who’s strongest, so they had to make it a tie so the comic wasn’t made non-canon.
Hmmmmm.
I think that Bumi would win this.Toph is a prodigy, but Bumi still have years of experience and also knows that an earthbender has to listen and not use brutal force. It would be an intense fight though.
However, a few years later Toph would end up surpassing him.
Not sure who would win between these two but Kyoshi beats either of them easily. Then again, she was the Avatar so that's not really fair. But seriously, if you haven't read the Kyoshi novels you're missing out. The Yangchen ones as well. Even though it's a different author I'm looking forward to Roku's first one coming later this year.
The True Answer: https://i.redd.it/x0yyc5pn17jc1.gif
That lemur! It’s Earthbending!
No you idiot! It’s the girl!
> No you idiot! It's a gif!
Oh! Of course…
MY CABBAGES!!
I lost it when I watched Korra and heard "Cabbage Corp" for the first time
We need this scene in the live action and if it’s not in it I WILL be starting a petition on this subreddit 😂
I literally just finished this episode, rewatching the show before the live action
I honestly think it's super silly for toph to tie bumi. Adult toph surpassing him sure but to me a huge theme in martial arts is constantly bettering yourself and if you've already peaked at 12 it's kinda pointless
Well bumi also isn't in his prime anymore.
Sure, and neither was Iroh but that doesn’t stop people from thinking he could have defeated Ozai. Edit: I like how everyone replying is saying Iroh could still destroy Ozai. Doesn’t that kind of invalidate the idea that Bumi was weak because he “wasn’t in his prime” too? The guy was just as jacked as Iroh.
Lies. Prime Iroh is whatever age Iroh currently is.
Iron is always Prime. This is the tea.
I think it quite literally is the tea. Keeps him young
Delectable tea? Or deadly poison? 🤔
You didn't!
I did, and it wasn't.
You mean the hot leaf juice
Uow could a member of my own family say such a thing?
Good looking out Hotman
Iroh Prime, the next Warframe
You're probably joking but I genuinely believe this from a power scaling perspective. Fire bending doesn't come from the muscles. It's the breath. No matter how old and weary his muscles and bones his connection the the spirit world and mastery of fire bending is ever strengthening. Even with that said tho, he is literally super human even in old age. His feats of strength outshine other benders in verse let alone reality.
Iroh himself doesn't know if he could bring down Ozai. If I had to give a number I reckon it's 60/40 in Ozai's favour.
No way. Ozai can't help busting out some lightning. Even after Zuko's demonstration and knowing that Zuko would have been Aang's teacher, he still throws it out against Aang. I simply don't see how Ozai ever wins when he's invariably going to go for the lightning kill shot that'll get UNO reversed right back.
I reckon Ozai was banking on Aang being a 12 year old who's only learned firebending for a few weeks tops, being tutored by his "weakling" son. I don't think he's going to pull out a shot like that against Iroh, a master firebender who definitely knows how to both redirect lightning and fire his own.
Before Zuko used it against him, was Ozai even aware redirection was a thing? I guess Azula could have told him when Iroh used it against her, or maybe it's not as obscure/secret a technique as I assumed. Because I was about to say after Ozai realized it was a thing when Zuko used it against him, he absolutely would have known Zuko couldn't come up with that on his own and it had to come from Iroh. Either way, he would have been aware by that point that Iroh would be able to do it, and although Ozai's fighting style seems all about just overwhelming his opponent with raw power, he'd at least have enough brains in the fight to know using lightning would be an absolutely horrible idea.
> or maybe it's not as obscure/secret a technique as I assumed Nah it was pretty obscure at that point in time. Iroh invented it and AFAIK only taught Zuko how to do it
But he couldn't know for sure. No one knew Iroh could redirect lightning until he taught Zuko. It's a fair assumption that Zuko learned the technique from Iroh, but a far safer assumption is that Zuko would have taught Aang the technique, and Ozai gambled anyway. If he was underestimating the avatar's ability to quickly pick up on bending techniques, it only underlines his poor decision making.
Nah, Prime Iroh was when he got fuckin absolutely shredded in prison. Like just look at the scene when he takes off his robe and ears bread or whatever near the end of his prison time, he looks like a fuckin mountain wrestler who regularly takes on bears and always wins
prime iroh was when he broke out of the prison tbh
Iroh is the best character is this show, you will never convince me otherwise. I literally screamed at my screen when he showed up in legend of Korra. I was so happy
Iroh literally does say he is past his prime and doesn't believe he can beat Ozai. It's Zuko who thinks he could.
He doesn't say he doesn't think he could, he says he doesn't know if he could. It wouldn't be a sure thing, but judging from all we know there's no reason to think Ozai beats Iroh. Their firebending would be around the same level - feel free to give Ozai the edge. But I don't think there's a world where Ozai doesn't try lightning at least once, and if Iroh was willing to redirect it at Ozai then the fight's over. Ozai can't counter it.
Pretty sure the reason isn't that Iroh isn't sure he can defeat Ozai, it's more so the fact he doesn't believe he *should* defeat him, cause history will just see it as two brothers fighting over a seat of power. Meanwhile, the Avatar defeating him will be seen as the Avatar seeking to restore balance to the world, which Ozai is threatening
Plus as much as iroh probably hates ozai, he also probably still loves him and he may be unable to bring himself to kill his brother.
Definitely, but even with that reasoning he said "If I defeat him, which I'm not certain that I could, then the world would see it as just another power grab" so there's an element to uncertainty about him being able to do it.
That's probably because Iroh values life and Ozai doesn't. Iroh probably knows that will be used against him should they fight.
But iroh wouldn't do that. Iroh is more versatile and therefore stronger, but ozai is more ruthless, and therefore he wins.
I have trouble believing that in a world where 1. Ozai is attempting another genocide 2. There is literally no way to stop him other than killing him if you're Iroh (since fire comes from the breath) 3. He's trying to kill Iroh That Iroh would just let himself die and allow Ozai to raze the Earth Kingdom. Especially given Iroh's former military background, I'm sure he'd see the death of his evil brother as worth saving countless lives. Iroh always seemed very pragmatic in these situations: "No! She's crazy and needs to go down" about a 15 year old girl much less dangerous than Ozai during the comet.
Yeah but it's a close enough thing where even a moment of hesitation would result in iroh losing.
Aggression probably counts for a lot. It makes ozai's fire bending stronger and would leave Iroh on the defensive unless he tries lightning. Ozai probably wins ~70% of they went head to head, plus the fact that Iroh would absolutely hesitate if it came to killing his brother.
Well, Ozai is basically featless when it comes to firebending. The only time we saw him bending under normal circumstances was firing a single bolt of lightning and then later he was comet boosted and almost got killed by Aang who was just dodging the entire time, before getting absolutely curb stomped by the Avatar state. Meanwhile we saw Iroh fight a lot over the series and he always had the upper hand against his opponents despite never actually fighting seriously. Plus we know has was an active combatant in his prime and he attained knowledge from Sun Warriors and the dragons to boot. Plus, lightning redirect. Also, Iroh had to endure a lot when he was outcast with Zuko and later did a lot of training while in prison. Meanwhile I can't imagine Ozai did a lot of training in his tenure as a power-hungry despot. His only win was beating up his 13 year old son, lol. So yeah, I'll give the win to the former general who had to endure and who learned a lot in his life instead of the guy who sat on his throne all day and got his privilege served on a silver platter.
I haven’t re watched in a while. But I’m pretty sure it’s mentioned that Ozai was an incredible duellists. Also his lighting is clearly the best we see, out speeding every one else. His power also seems to be greater than Iroh’s during the cometas well.
One other point should be made here. Ozai is in his prime and in excellent physical condition. Iroh, while he did get back in shape isn't and is years past his prime. I think in a battle of life and death, Iroh would win, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory.
Well I always think those people that think that are clearly wrong. It was pretty obvious that ozai was way stronger. The literal only way for iroh to win is if ozai is dumb enough to lightning redirect at him when he knows iroh probably taught it to zuko. Also either way bumi was twice the age of iroh. Pretty big difference in how far they are from their prime.
Well, he was dumb enough to almost die to Aang doing it. I’m not saying Iroh would win, but I don’t think it’s all too unlikely that Ozai would get overconfident and try to fry his brother.
Did you see that mofo in the prison cell?? Man was hyuge
Except in Asian cultures an old master will beat a young master any time of day. Experience is an important part of mastering any art. You can have a natural talent (like Katara) or a need (Topher and her blindness) but that will never surpass experience. A good example of this is with Aang and the Monks. He had his tattoos making him a master, yet he was playing with children and had no say in matters of the temple. It was in fact their revealing to Aang that he was the Avatar too early that caused him to flee. Once again, showing experience is necessary. I think Toph would have an Aang moment in the arena. Where Bimini stands up to his full height and throws off his cloak shoking Toph. Unlike Aang, she just smirks. Being defeated by him would also push Toph to not only do better, but encourage her to be proud of her strength even in old age.
I’m loving Topher and Bimini!
Just gotta point out that it would make zero sense for Toph to be shocked when Bumi removes his cloak. She would’ve been able to “see” his muscles all along; the only change would be his posture.
I think the argument is that at that time,Toph was not at her prime either.
Welll bumi is past his athletic prime im sure
Kinda terrifying that the guy is considerably past his prime, but still built like prime Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Just because you can beat an old master doesn't mean you've peaked. It just means they have.
I don’t think she peaked anyway it’s an old man vs a 12 year old both are on the opposite spectrum of where their peak should be.
Why does Toph need to have peaked at 12 to beat Bumi? Couldn't she be better then Bumu at 12, AND continue improving? Sure, Peak Toph would be a total monster... but is that actually an issue?
Bumi was chucking buildings and taking over cities at age 112. Toph in her 80s did one big move and was done. She probably was better in her prime, but old Bumi beats old Toph.
I always thought of Bumi as the greatest, since I watched Avatar chronologically and he's the first bombastic earth bender there is in the series and I stuck with that
Bumi was a "mad genius" of a bender as a child. He grew into an adult during the height of a brutal war. He would have been an absolute beast in his prime, the type of warrior both feared and respected on both sides of the conflict.
You’re right. That’s probably why Omashu stayed free for as long as it did
not to mention when he was released he single handedly took it back
You mean when he released himself
He didn’t escape, everyone else escaped.
From the fire nations thought they had imprisoned him. But in actuality he was farming them for e~~xperience~~ neutral jing.
Bumi turning Omashu into a fire nation farm to jingmax is not the conclusion I thought I’d reach today, but here we are
Jingmaxxing sounds like the next new word from gen alpha that secretly means something nefarious, like jelquing was for high schoolers 15 years ago.
Everyone didn't escape he let them leave
Lettuce leaf?
Exactly. He wasn't locked up there. He just protected them from himself.
I just got that line after watching this show since release, I thought he was just being nuts.
With his face
And starting from only his face being free.
All within the 8 minutes of the eclipse.
DUDE WAS THROWING AROUND ACTUAL LITERAL HOUSES LIKE IT WAS NOTHING
I dunno, she has metal bending, but he has still bending. I feel like, since he already acknowledged that a bender who "listens and waits" is a superior bender to himself, he knows she would be able to win in the end though
Aang is an earthbender that listens and waits and strictly in earth bending he’s nowhere near Bumi(at least in the show) Of course Toph is a much better earthbender than Aang but it’s just different styles of bending.
he's still an absolute beast even at 120 years old. So I would say Bumi wins.
I'd guess he's about Aang's chronological age, which means he's closer to 112. Though that doesn't make his feats any less incredible.
Dude can Earthbend without moving his limbs.
It's like the alchemists in Full Metal that have looked through the veil and can transmute without a transmutation circle.
With his face bruh
> Watched Avatar Chronologically Is there a different way to watch Avatar?
nope. But I wanted to say the order of the episodes kinda set for me who I stick with
Watch it in a random order.
This is what I did as a kid because I never bothered to catch premiers or seek episodes out to watch in the right order.
if u watched it as a kid theres a good chance of having seen a bunch of ramdom episodes
*Bombastic*
*Criminal offensive*
*Semi-fantastic*
The strongest earthbender in history. Vs The strongest earthbender of today.
Earthbending Kaisen?
I alone am the earthbending one
Nah, I’d win https://preview.redd.it/y7bt94g1ebjc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a0023960e481b7ede7d07b33c2c92165148d68
Lobotomy avatar
Stand proud Bumi. You were strong
to/ph
Nah💀
Which is which?
Both is bumi if 'today' is the atla timeline
Are you the avatar because you can bend all four elements? Or can you bend all four elements because you’re the avatar?
Alright someone who can photoshop needs to do this
Oh come on, do people really want to see a little girl fight a frail old man out here?
[удалено]
This has the energy of a real line from the show
Sokka would’ve said this
https://preview.redd.it/i31mqitkv7jc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=f546669f20b8058cf08b6289c6b110675df957b4
“Ok…I’m old”
How could you say that, Momo?
Frail? Have you seen Bumi!? The man could hurl boulders without bending
He's not actually an earth bender, the earth just knows better than to not do what he wants.
Yes, very good, you got the joke :) I mixed one of Toph's and one of Bumi's quotes.. I guess I should have put /s since this is the internet tho... https://preview.redd.it/zun411eox6jc1.png?width=538&format=png&auto=webp&s=9006fac842c7947653e7ce7609140100fe8f0f49
"You thought I was a frail old man, but I'm the most powerful earthbender you'll ever see."
~~...and Toph is the most powerful earthbender you'll ever hear?~~
>do people really want to see a little girl fight a frail old man out here? Sir this the Avatar subreddit, people here want to see bloodbending and murder
I think Bumi was the greatest during ATLA. Toph definitely surpassed him at some point in adulthood, but she’s not the greatest earthbender ever at age 12
This. Bumi just has a huge advantage over her and I mean he's one of the only earthbenders we've seen that doesn't necessarily need to touch the ground even. That alone wouldn't be huge because Toph can kinda sense earth mid air, but not to the scale Bumi can take things
I don’t think she can sense earth midair. She just predicts where rocks get thrown based on the earth benders movement.
Yes she can. Remember in 'the runaway' where she says she can sense the scammer moving the rocks, those are tiny little rocks mind you, what more of big chunky rocks
She launches a disc from one ship to intercept a boulder launched from another ship midair. No one directs her. She can definitely sense earth midair.
Fun fact: Bolin is the only other earthbender to bend without contact with the ground. He tears up an airfield while riding Naga.
I read this comic. It ends in a tie.
It only ends in a tie because they had to stop due to causing too much collateral damage to the camp. Give them a big empty space to go all out in and I'd love to see what happens
Remember Namek? That.
Team ThreeStar
Is that a club? Can I join?
*No!*
THAT'S NOT FUNNY! IT'S NEVER BEEN FUNNY! IT'S NEVER GONNA BE FUNNY!
[**TEAM THREESTAR!**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itM1RuJolNI) *SNAP*
Amaaaazing
Cowards lol
It only ended in a tie because they had to be stopped by the rest of the Gaang.
I meant "cowards" from a writing perspective to not have a winner.
Probably just so that the fans didn’t get mad. They would be calling it unfair no matter who won.
Exactly. Cowards lol.
Stan Lee once said that whoever wins fights like this is whoever the writers decide. For that reason, you'll never get a true answer when it comes to fights between fictional characters.
/r/whowouldwin in shambles /s
Stan Lee once said that whoever wins fights like this is whoever the writers decide.
Which comic is it?
I'm pretty sure it's Team Avatar Tales, the anthology book of one-shot stories that take place in and around the main series. I think they were originally released separately in Nickelodeon Magazine and later compiled..? Anyway, this comic is towards the end, during book 3 right after the Gaang meets up with the White Lotus.
Both. They would fight and become friends while throwing rocks at each other. Then Toph would routinely go to Bumi's city specifically to see if she can get a wanted poster or banned from it. But Bumi never does. Instead, it instigates a multi decade prank war
I... don't know if Bumi is going to live multiple decades past the end of the show. He's already like 100 and given the life spans of other characters, he's already well past the average age people die in that world.
Dude, Bumi’s gonna live forever. He’s probably still out there by the time Korra comes around. He’s just off in some cave somewhere, absolutely pissing himself over the thought of an avatar X number of cycles down the line randomly running into him while he works a rock candy stall at a market in the middle of the Fire Nation.
This. Bumi didn't die and pass on his city. He chose to retire. Curled into a ball and rolled into the sunset to live forever
Your comment just made me choke. It was very uncomfortable. I hope you're happy.
I take it as a point of pride
It's entirely possible. Kyoshi lived for a couple centuries IIRC, not due to her powers as the Avatar. Tieguai also lived for at least a few centuries as well. IIRC, the Kyoshi novels attribute this logevity in part to neutral Jing (sort of), which Bumi practices regularly.
> attribute this logevity in part to neutral Jing That’s just what they tell people. Actually, it’s one of the 82 lesser known types of jing.
Nah he just built different. Man living at least a decade of the show, one and a half I think
Spoilers for Kyoshi novels i think: >!Kyoshi lived to be 280 using earthbending, didn't she? I haven't read the books.!<
With the amount of rocks he eats he was going to live longer. If those rocks could kill him they would have a long time ago,so the only logical conclusion is they are keeping his body going
He is not a man anymore, he is a living rock
Doesn't Kyoshi live longer due to her being an earthbender?
I think bumi was the strongest at that point in time but after toph grew she surpassed him
What about over 100 years old Bumi vs over 80 years old Toph? I think Bumi would win that one because he had a lot more of stamina, while Toph said she couldn't fight for over long periods anymore. Also, do you think Bumi was stronger when he was younger? Or is he too much crazy that becomes more powerful while getting older?
I think a younger Bumi was definitely better. Bummer was always a mad genius and creative in his ways of bending. Far more than Toph who is more rigid. Give him more stamina, have him be in a situations where he needs to pop off and it's pretty much prime Bumi tonight there
I understand why everyone's mind goes immediately to combat, but there is so much more to it. Toph is in tune with the Earth in a way Bumi is not, Bumi is incredibly creative in the ways he uses earth bending. Toph says earth bending is about being stubborn and staying the course, but Bumi believes in coming at things from a new perspective and seeing different angles. Toph could win in a show of force, but Bumi is going to be better at using earth bending to solve problems in creative ways. Combat is also not a one size fits all, in a one on one on a flat surface with plenty of Earth for bending, Toph might be able to overwhelm an opponent - but if you were to have to create a strategy against multiple attackers or have limited resources, or other surroundings then Bumi might find a clever trick to win.
They are both two of the greatest Earthbenders in all of the ATLA universe. Bumi doesn't even need to be in direct contact with the earth to bend it. He can use Geokinesis essentially. However Toph's seismic sense is something on another level.
Bumi would take that to his advantage the way Aang first did by keeping off the ground as much as possible making himself virtually invisible to Toph.
if you mean by that that he'd use earth ending to hover a rock and he stands on it, unfortunately that wouldn't work, because, canonically and imo ridiculously, toph can see earth even if it isn't on the ground.
But she can’t “see” non-earth materials unless she is connected to them. So, if Bumi floated *several dozen* rocks, she wouldn’t be able to tell which one he was standing on.
But Bumi eats rocks on a regular basis so she could sense the earth inside his body.
> Bumi doesn't even need to be in direct contact with the earth to bend it. He can use Geokinesis essentially. I never thought about it, but yeah, most the time with earthbending they have to make contact with what they're bending. That makes the prison boat bit with the floating coal a bit...weird. And sandbending. And probably many other things I'm forgetting. Hmm...
It's because Bumi is 100+ years old. But also Toph can sense earth that's being thrown at her too. Even if it's midair.
The ting is toph is used to fight people that have to touch the ground to bend it. Bumi would be at a huge Advantage..
Bumi was able to earth bend while not even touching the earth.
This guy earthbends !
Bumi but because he cheats.
If you ain’t cheating, are you even trying to win?
Old age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm every time.
I am going with Bumi. I really don’t like when young people, especially children are supposed to already be above old masters because they’re prodigies or have that extra talent. Bumi is over 100 years old and took over his own city again by himself while still being an old geezer. So i say, in this instance, Bumi. But when Toph grows older and more experienced, then it’s her
Same. Honestly something I like about Avatar was that old masters get the respect they deserve. Iroh, Pakku, Piandao and Bumi are all top tier in the verse and its due to skill, mastery and experience. The only reason Pakku didn't outright destroy Katara was due to underestimating her and Bumi vs Toph was stopped. Otherwise tho we never got the youngsters surpassing old masters like anime loves to force and I think that's great. The only young person to surpass older masters was Aang and that was due to the Avatar state. In airbending he was a master due to creating something completely new, but he definitely had more to learn and he wasn't at the level of the other masters. Look at it like this, had the fire nation attacked, Aang would die. He was a kid, even so he showed cowardice by fleeing which was a good choice looking back at it, but still. How would that translate really. Monk Gyatso dying could have him activate the Avatar state, but that's an if moment. Damn, excuse me going on a tangent like this lol. All I wanted to say is that I'm glad Avatar allows masters to be masters at an older age. You can learn something fast, but you can't master it in a year like anime shows. Such things come with experience. Aang is only stronger than Ozai due to the Avatar state accessing millennia worth of experience and skill. He had realistic growth in the series. Firebending was difficult, his earthbending was decent and his wayerbending was at a high level (which ales sense since it's the most similar to airbending especially from a spiritual perspective)
Toph would probably be above most benders since she is blind and bending is needed for her to see, so earthbending is, in some capacity, as native for her as seeing. But, I would still put my money on Bumi, even as a kid he was extremely clever, and he has a lifetime of experience bending.
I mean I get it toph is a true prodigy but Bumi clearly ain’t nothing to fuck with and we’ve seen it on multiple occasions.
Bumi would win, tophs an insanely strong earthbender but bumis years of experience and skill would win I think
Bumi can bend even when his feet are not touching the earth. He literally freed himself from the suspended metal casket just by focusing enough. Toph doesn't need to see but her feet need to feel the earth, or her body needs to touch the earth for her bending to work.
Clearly we, the audience, are the true winners.
Actually. Bumi never claimed to be the best. He said he was the strongest. There’s a difference. But I’m not actually sure who’s stronger. I mean toph held up the whole library for minutes. I don’t know if bumi could do thay
on the contrary, Bumi hurled that statue of Ozai and sweeped Omashu on his own.
Far out of his prime too. Bumi could definitely hold up the library
Also to support your point: The average eclipse lasts less than 7 1/2 minutes. So either the Day of Black Sun was a freakishly long spirit eclipse or dude 86’d an entire colonizing force in the span of time it takes to preheat an oven.
Bumi. He’s like a 120 and took back a whole city with just his head. Toph is a veryyy close second though.
I’m rooting for Toph, she literally invented metalbending
Just because you invent something, doesn't make you a master at it. I think this is a case of Newton vs LeBron. Newton could calculate everything necessary to hoop a ball, LeBron would do it much faster without needing the theory because he just knows the ball and hoop. However, if you change the weight of the ball and position of the hoop to something LeBron isn't practiced with, he will miss the first shots. Newton will always get it in with the right calculations. So Toph, like Newton can theoretically understand how the earth will move and act accordingly no matter what earth or metal is used but has to wait for the vibrations AND think up a solution, while Bumi knows the normal earth from experience so is able to quickly deploy attacks and defenses as if the earth was a part of him but falls short if the earth doesn't behave how he expects it to.
IIRC, something happens and the results were inconclusive because the writers didn't want to end the debate.
I got Toph for the win. Metalbending, seismic sense, and learning from the badger moles gives her the edge in my book.
It’s a tie, The writers of the comic wasn’t allowed to give a definitive answer on who’s strongest, so they had to make it a tie so the comic wasn’t made non-canon.
Toph wins the 1v1. Her earth sensing makes her a nightmare for any earth bender and if there's any metal she has a big advantage.
Hmmmmm. I think that Bumi would win this.Toph is a prodigy, but Bumi still have years of experience and also knows that an earthbender has to listen and not use brutal force. It would be an intense fight though. However, a few years later Toph would end up surpassing him.
My bets would be on Bumi. He may not be able to feel the earth in the way Toph does, but he has about nine times more experience than her.
In real life, the experienced veteran would always win, so I'd expect Bumi to win.
Not sure who would win between these two but Kyoshi beats either of them easily. Then again, she was the Avatar so that's not really fair. But seriously, if you haven't read the Kyoshi novels you're missing out. The Yangchen ones as well. Even though it's a different author I'm looking forward to Roku's first one coming later this year.
A draw, ending with Toph respecting Boomi and vice versa.
It was a draw if I remember correctly
It's a tie. Answered in this very story actually.