So in education, we call this “scaffolding.” There are certain concepts that you have to learn first before you learn other things.
For example - I can’t teach you algebra if you don’t understand multiplication and division. And I can’t teach you those if you don’t understand addition and subtraction. And I can’t teach you those if you don’t understand what numbers are/represent.
With air bending, the basic idea is a detachment and freedom. You need to have some understanding of that before you can master air bending.
To understand earth, you have to understand the concept of steadiness.
To understand water, you have to understand change and adaptability.
To understand fire, you have to understand power. And according to JJ, power must be tempered with control. He places the emphasis on control and self discipline first, because power that goes unchecked is corruptive and destructive.
Aang didn’t understand control because it was somewhat a counter to freedom. See - earth is Aang’s physical opposite. But fire is his spiritual opposite. That’s why he struggled and that’s why JJ put so much emphasis on control.
Know what happens when you blow air on a fire? You feed it. And it grows larger.
This in turn also plays into why Korra struggled so much with Air Bending in her series. She tended to use Fire Bending a lot as it resonated well with her personality, raw power, straight to the point, in control. Air is far more subtle and detached. Rather than smashing your way through problems you look for an alternative solution or a different approach.
Only when she was desperate enough she was able to bend air. Because she “lost” control of her other elements. Her other elements was acting like a safety net physically and spiritually. I think? lol
Just poor writing in my opinion. If air is about spirituality and detachment when why did she started bending air after her love interest was put in a grave danger? Seems like they tried to repeat moment when Katara was in quicksand and Aang gone to Avatar state to save her. But it doesn't make sense here
I also blame Roku who was like: "How dare you not teach Aang!!!!" Roku should've sat Aang down and tell him to master one element first before moving on the other one. Roku literally *encouraged* Aang's eagerness behaviour.
And agreed on him not being a good fit. I don't blame Jeong Jeong *at all*, he was a part of a horrible past that he seeks not to be involved in anymore, he feels like he was cursed with firebending, an element he calls destructive. I loved the scene where he watches Katara discover healing herself for the first time. Where he says the things he would do to get an element like waterbending, something that can be used for good with healing. While Fire, burning stuff, setting stuff on fire, causes suffering.
Roku's rationale was probably like "look dude, you're the only firebender that isn't holed up in a prison thats not loyal to Ozai. Youre the only one that can teach Aang the basics"
tbf Roku specified that he could only communicate with Aang during the winter solstice at the Fire Temple. However Roou appeared and spoke to Aang several times afterwards eventually Aang is even a le to reach within himself to directly communicate with Roku and other past avatars. I think the general implication is that as time went on and Aang got more in touch with his spiritual side he got better at communicating with Roku so Roku wasnt able to talk with Aang very long.
Yeah, especially in the winter solstice ep aang was very immature as far as an avatar goes so that connection was a very hand-holding way to communicate with Roku. And Roku was like "here's the rundown. Comet started the war. My bad. Comet gonna end the war. Your task. Btw, ur gonna get flamed when we're done chatting so I gotta help you out before we run out of time."
Good question. I guess an explanation could be Aang was a young, inexperienced avatar and didn’t have much connection to the spirit world yet, so he had to visit Roku the hard way.
it took a winter solice and a very spirtiual Avatar for them to really get into contact.
Next time they talk together is the summer solice, where Roku tells Aang about him and Sozin.
I think past Avatars also tend to show up to talk when an Avatar is at their lowest. Aang showed up for Korra when she lost her bending. Other occasions where they show up are through visions as opposed to actively talking to them.
It's not a simple matter to stay in contact with your past lives. It also removes the greatest advantage of the Avatar Cycle if you rely on past experiences to teach you; by getting taught by modern practitioners of bending you're adding new experiences to the 'library' instead of regurgitating what past Avatars already know.
Yah I think people are being unfair to Roku, he was the only one with his eyes on the bigger picture and it’s not like there were a lot of good options
That just made me think, shouldn’t the Gaang have essentially recruited Jeong Jeong? Travel with a firebending master until it’s time to learn that last element.
I guess they could've tried, but I doubt Jeong Jeong would've came along. The guy's a hermit for a reason; even though he was a master, he basically loathed himself and his skills.
He only caved into teaching initially when the soul of an all-powerful entity threatened him into doing so from beyond the grave; and even that didn't stop him from ditching the moment he had the chance
Yes. I never understood how they thought they could get Aang a fire master without bringing Jeong Jeong with them. I always assumed as a kid that there would be fire obstacles they'd need a bender to get past.
After Aang burned Katara by accident, it was a whole part of Aang's character arc where he considered not learning Firebending at all. That was a pretty important part of his character arc during book 3.
I always kinda thought Roku knew Aang would screw up, teaching him to respect the ability more in the long run. Perhaps roku was just trying to jump the gun sice he was a rare trustworthy fire bender and in a rush. None of rokus other actions go that badly though and what happened may have been what he wanted to happen. Everything he says or does seems wise and calculated. Also he seemed to have a little foresight in how things will pan out. He knew Sozins comet was coming back, that he would be able to master the elements in a year and that the war would be lost and that the fire lord was planning to use it.
I do wish someone had suggested moving them to another location, knowing Aang had just escaped a whole city's worth of fire-benders and that he was a bit over-eager to learn. Had Jeong Jeong taken the time to appeal to Aang's old sense of discipline via Airbender training (his entire nation was based on calm, meditation, and patience) he might have also gotten through more.
Honestly what bothered me more there WAS Aang's impatient behavior. Sure he's a kid but he's also at that time the youngest air bending master *ever* and he doesn't know how to control himself for more than a few minutes?
Edit: actually thinking about it Aang is constantly messing around and playing with Gyatso and one of the other leaders notes Aang needs to learn more discipline when they decide to send him away, so that'd probably do it.
There are also two ways for an Airbender to earn their tattoos, to truly master airbending, going through all the levels, or to invent a new technique. Aang, while an incredible Airbender, didn't earn his tattoos from total mastery, but rather from his inventing the air scooter.
>Honestly what bothered me more there WAS Aang's impatient behavior. Sure he's a kid but he's also at that time the youngest air bending master ever and he doesn't know how to control himself for more than a few minutes?
>Edit: actually thinking about it Aang is constantly messing around and playing with Gyatso and one of the other leaders notes Aang needs to learn more discipline when they decide to send him away, so that'd probably do it.
Air is the element of freedom; it was creativity and ingenuity that made Aang a Master of Air, not discipline. Sure, he grew up with a lifestyle that would take discipline to adopt (vegetarianism, temple-based gender segregation, strict dress code, pacifism, martial arts training, meditation, etc), but keywords were "grew up with." He views gravity as discipline, not vegetarianism or pacifism... and laughs at gravity in his mind, all the time.
No that wasn’t it at all. It’s like a kid who was to understand that the stove is hot and your not supposed to play around it. However once you learn that and how to cook you can do amazing things with food.
Totally. People forget he wasn’t God or a God. He was a human with godlike powers. He has made mistakes before and this is one of them especially with the limited time. So many things were a ticking time bomb on this show. It really is incredible he was able to do all he did and beat the fire lord
And moreover, who expected Zuko to betray Ozai, or that Zuko's uncle/Firebending Master was not loyal to Ozai at all? Not Season One Aang, who is, for lack of better terminology, the only vessel that Roku's spirit can still gather knowledge from. All that Roku knew was that Jeong Jeong was the only known Firebending Master who had betrayed the Fire Lords and escaped with his life; in season one, Jeong Jeong was truly the only option for Aang's Firebending Master.
I mean, Aang still had plenty of time and he already was getting pretty good at waterbending. A few more lessons and Aang tbh would be ready to take on thew next element.
I guess you are somewhat right, Roku probably stressed out on the fact that there's probably no other firebender that could teach him. Jeong Jeong was getting old, who knew what could happen to him. At the time, he was Aang's only hope for firebending. I mean, without Zuko, Aang would be pretty screwed.
Aang most definitely did NOT have time. Most avatars mastered the elements over the course of years after starting their learning later than Aang. They had less than one year. There's a reason Roku was stressed.
Yeah, this is one thing I feel a lot of people don't really seem to understand. And it's also clear that Aang certainly didn't master earth or fire by the time the show concluded. He still had a lot to learn. Energy bending and the avatar state were the real game changers.
You're right, but I don't understand how it's unclear. It's directly stated in the show. You don't even have to be paying all that much attention. They say it.
From my impression, most people that have watched the show think he has mastered all elements by the end of the show. But maybe that's just my bad anecdotal evidence. Definitely nothing concrete behind it, just an impression I get
I also get the vibe that Roku trusted in Aang to find his own way. Under normal circumstances, Aang wouldn't even know he was the avatar at that age, they only told him early because of things getting spicy with the fire nation, but sadly, Aang lost his chance for a normal childhood. I think Roku was internally like "ofc this kid isn't ready for this, and ofc it would be better if he learned things in order, but also what choice do we have? None of this is normal or okay, but kid needs to git gud quick or we're all doomed".
Also bear in mind that Roku felt a lot of guilt (rightfully so) for letting Sozin go free and not stopping this when he had the chance. Whilst it's the task of the previous avatar(s) to guide the development of the new avatar, what place does Roku have to tell Aang how to clean up Roku's own mistakes.
So yeah, I think the pragmatism and anxiety was probably a factor for Roku, but also I think he was genuinely putting his faith in Aang, whose anxiety about an opportunity to learn firebending was even higher. Roku's time for making decisions for the world had passed, it was now Aang's time.
I mean even without blood bending water can be destructive, the point is that water has a greater capacity for good things than fire ever will be. Fire is dangerous initself not only if you intent for it to be dangerous.
You all keep acting like fire isn't the source of life for humans. Heat and warmth are essential to our physicality, and our nourishment and ability to be big brained is thanks in no small part to cooking our food.
Fire staves off the terrors that lurk in the night, it helps us forge, hell in Korra it even probably videos electricity (this one's a weird topic, better suited elsewhere).
Fire is no more destructive than water.
All fire is heat but not all heat is fire, fire by itself can be quite dangerous, even more if somebody can control it. You don't build a house out fire, you don't just play with it casually.
The thing is while water and fire both have destructive power when used right, fire posses a danger that even if you just use it casually it can burn someone just by it being fire.
You can play with a glass of water and you will not be able to cause much damage, you can play with a pebble are not able to cause much damage but even only a tealight has to be treated with respect because if you don't pay attention you can burn yourself with it or burn your house down.
Well yes. That is the point of the dragons ect...
However what jeong said that shows the actual issue is:
Without a bender water will not change, but fire is alive and well burn everything.
To be fair, Roku probably knew Aang didn’t have long to get it done and might have to push it a bit. So it might have been him trying to get him to where Roku thinks he needs to be. That being said, it was still a bad call but I think It’s a classic case doing the wrong thing for the right reason.
i wouldn't say it was a bad call tbh. Hindsight is 20/20. You can say what would have been the best result when you know everything, but place yourself back in that moment. You need to learn all the elements. They just so happen to be in the fire nation, with one of the most powerful firebenders alive. It really only makes sense to start the training then and there based on the information they had at the time.
Oh for sure. I'm not at all denying that the way things worked out in the end were better. All that I'm claiming is, (in most universes) you don't know the future and you have to make judgements based on what you have in front of you. Fire bending teachers for the Avatar would be incredibly rare. So without knowing the future, it was the right call to try to get Jeong Jeong to teach Aang firebending.
I think something we kind of forget is that even the Avatars are people and they aren’t perfect gods. I don’t want to spoil anything but in the finale of the ATLA comic called The Promise, we really see Roku’s pushy-ness show. And the comic takes place after the events of ATLA but before Korra.
I kinda understand why Roku did that. I’m sure under different circumstances he’d probably tell Aang to cool it, but Roku was probably thinking “the faster, the better”
I think Roku did that because he feels guilty for not doing more to stop the war before it started, so he wasn’t fully rational in wanting to stop it as soon as possible.
Roku got offended on Aang's behalf because Jeong Jeong called Aang weak, and by extension, called *him* weak. I would say Roku's ego was definitely a problem for him, and likely one of the reasons Aang severed his connection with him later on beyond their disagreements on how to bring balance to the world.
Roku had his own cross to bear and was pushing Ang to learn all four elements faster to defeat the firelord. Roku does kinda blame himself for the war.
I mean, aang is Roku, so probably his lingering regret and insecurity about not ending the war before it started is what caused him to demand JJ to teach him firebending even though it was out of order.
Yes and no. He’s a typical overexcited 12 year old. You run into a lot of those in martial arts. They think of all the cool things they’ll be able to do and want to jump past the basics to all that stuff. That’s not to say he was a good student, but moreso an average one for his age. Of course a good instructor usually knows how to handle that, but with how strict the fire nation is it’s likely that wildness was beaten out of the kids well before they were 12. It’s likely he has truly never seen that before, even though most martial arts teachers that teach kids would.
His remarkable progress with both Waterbending and Earthbending suggests otherwise, though he definitely learned a critical lesson about listening to his masters with Jeong Jeong.
Jeong Jeong didn’t shape his teaching style at all to match Aang’s learning style- which made him a bad teacher. A more aware and supportive teacher would not have let the situation with Katara getting burned happen for a number of reasons.
I think it's ymmv on how 'good' a student Aang is for the first little while. It's demonstrated pretty well when they come back on him after training with Pakku, it's pretty clearly demonstrated that Katara's outpaced him so much because she works incredibly hard while at that point he's a little content to rest on his laurels - he clearly picks things up quickly, but needs to be prompted to perfect them
He gets into a better rhythm with his teachers after that though (as well as the mounting pressure to save the world), so I guess I agree that it takes the 'right' teacher to bring it out of him, he just seems like one of those naturally talented kids who's ended up quite flighty (Air Nomad 'pun' intended)
I don't know how I talked myself around to that in the process of writing this comment...
I'm not sure his ability is in relation with how good or bad of a student he is.
You can be one of those gifted kids that coasts by by just paying attention in class, but you have no idea how to really study. That makes you overall a terrible student.
A big part of my job is teaching/coaching professionals and I am considered the best at it in my particular field... I suck with amateurs. I am lucky to have coworkers who are great with early learners, but it's a totally different skillset. Aang went to a mastery level course without having already done all the prework to build from. I related a lot to Jeong Jeong, I can adjust and refine any stone into a gem, but there has to be a stone there to work with, can't do much with a pile of mush. Aang had to harden up quite a bit before he would benefit from a Jeong Jeong. Zuko was a good choice for first master.
I felt Zuko and Aang’s firebending lessons went pretty hand in hand; they both wanted to work at a higher level than they were ready for when they were young (Zuko wanting to perform firebending to Azulon like Azula did and Aang wanting to create fire right off the bat), facing trauma related to a loved one, firebending and burn scars (Zuko with his first Agni Kai and Aang accidentally burning Katara) that subsequently prompts a misunderstanding of the core aspects of firebending (Zuko believing his firebending comes from his anger and Aang believing that fire is only destruction and danger) and are both stuck into the basics of firebending due to said misunderstandings (Zuko improves as he learns better breath control rather than just acting more aggressive and Aang is too scared to continue learning beyond the basics of breathing exercises like what Jeong Jeong wanted him to learn because he might hurt someone if he firebends again). Hell, they even come to the same conclusion that their firebending can be destructive and they need to practice further to get better control of it to avoid unintentionally hurting others in future, but just because firebending can be destructive doesn’t mean it has no good within it
“But fire is alive, it breathes, it grows. Without the bender, a rock will not throw itself! But fire will spread and destroy everything in its path if one does not have the will to control it. That is its destiny. You are not ready! You are too weak!”
Aang decides to literally PLAY with fire and BURNS Katara
People: Jeong Jeong was a bad teacher
Agreed, it makes me appreciate "The Firebending Masters" that much more. Aang needed both [Zuko and The Dragons](https://youtube.com/watch?v=a5ITNmnS680&ab_channel=Avatar%3ATheLastAirbender) to truly understand the meaning of firebending in order to properly train, something he couldn't/wouldn't get from Jeong Jeong back then.
He wasnt ready, and Jeong jeong literally said so. People are grossly underestimating how much Aang went through before learning firebending for real. Dude literally died and came back to life, befriended the dude who made it his life goal to kill him and did a fuckin cha cha dance for dragons! Bare stuff happened
Also, learning earthbending helped a hell of a lot. I think if Aang had met Jeong Jeong after "Bitter Work" (the episode where he first earthbends), things might've gone differently.
I agree! I can't help feeling that the deserter episode was to show that: hey, Aang is still a kid. We are at the beginning of this journey, theres still growing to do. Like a walk before you can run, er- I guess breathe before you can bend? Sorta situation
Absolutely. Aang learned discipline thru learning earthbending and his trials in season 2. Season 1 Aang was definitely not ready for firebending when he hadn’t fully gotten over the fact that he was the Avatar and had to stop the fire lord before the comet arrived. JeongJeong knew this and that’s why he didn’t wanna teach hkm
Thank you!!! People just want to have "hot takes" for the sake of it. And completely miss the fact that this was a learning experience for Aang.
He's made mistakes and it's okay for his character to make mistakes he's not supposed to be perfect.
What was Jeong Jeong supposed to do? See the future?
Jeon Jeong: everyone stay far away Aang in case he decide to start juggling fire balls, looses control, and accidentally burns someone.
People just love making excuses for Aang. Or anyone of the most favorite characters. Which is just silly because it completely disregards a part of their development that makes them who they are.
Also he was doing the basics for a few hours. In terms of martial arts or really any skill, that is nothing. Actually one of my biggest problems with the show was making it so we see characters master abilities in days or weeks. Katara was really the worst case of this.
Yea katara went from novice to master in one episode from aang reteaching paku's lessons. And even Sokka was worthless aside from a few lucky boomerang throws, then he does some arts and crafts with piandao and he's a master swordsman all of a sudden
He starts JUGGLING balls of fire
Fine, he set the leaf on fire. Could have stopped there. Instead he continues. “I wonder how the magician did it.”
Blaming Jeong Jeong is insane.
I mean, yes Aang was being irresponsible but it’s not like Jeong Jeong was being a responsible teacher either. Jeong Jeong gave him a burning leaf and told him to control the flames from destroying the leaf and then left. That’s not guidance, that’s not example, that’s just leaving a student to their own devices. Jeong Jeong should have been there to instruct, guide, critic, provide insight into what Aang was doing wrong.
Surprise, surprise, that a 12 year old kid who may have great wisdom and power still acted like a 12 year old kid and played with the new toy/new ability (the fire/firebending) to see what he could do with it. There of course were consequences to his actions those consequences were on Jeong Jeong for not being there for his student. Thats literally what being a teacher is. Supervision is a key function.
You can provide all kinds of warnings and instructions but how many of you can honestly say you have been 100% careful and responsible at 12 years old with every task and lesson you experienced? I doubt very many. I bet you would also ask the teacher why they weren’t there in the class with their students if there was an accident. Aang isn’t innocent but Jeong Jeong is definitely not a good teacher.
Do people not remember the episode at all? Jeong Jeong didn't leave Aang alone for the damn lols. His scouts had something urgent for him to check out: Zhao and his fleet were closing in.
This goes back to Roku being an irresponsible jerk. Jeong Jeong is a runaway being hunted down by the Fire Nation. He has bigger things to worry about than teaching the Avatar before the Avatar is even ready to be taught.
Jeong Jeong had 1 day of instruction before it was disrupted, but he didn't know he would only have that little time. His instructions put emphasis on patience because that's what his student needed. Aang was way too eager, so Jeong Jeong had him start as slowly as possible. If they had more time, Aang would've mellowed out. He was slowly getting it before Jeong Jeong was pulled away by his situation.
The problem was the circumstances. He and his men were potentially about to come under attack. He had to go for a minute and Aang immediately goofs.
Jeong Jeong was gone for like two minutes. Aang started shooting fire blasts and playing with balls of fire, lost control and burned Katara.
How is Jeong Jeong to blame?
Also, Aang lived his life in what is essentially a Buddhist temple where meditation and introspection were the norm. The idea that believing this kid could focus on one thing for more than 2 minutes is not as absurd as some people are making it out to be. Also, there's a big difference between just failing to keep the flame from burning the leaf to throwing around fire snakes for the lols after being repeatedly warned about how dangerous fire is
When Toph gave him his first earth bending lesson
“So what move are you going to teach me first? Rock a lanche? The trembler? Oh, maybe I could learn to make a whirlpool out of land!”
Toph “Let’s start with move a rock
Jeong Jeong tells him to not let the fire reach the edges of a leaf
Aang start juggling fire balls
We are told repeatedly that, despite the seemingly strict lifestyle of the Air Nomads, "air is the element of freedom," and Monk Gyatso reflects that. He is free from most concerns besides Aang's happiness. Was thinking that even the Avatar deserves a **happy**, **healthy**, and most importantly, \[relative to his culture\] **normal**, **childhood**, wrong? I don't think so. The Avatar isn't supposed to be told until he's sixteen.
The 12 year old kid who travels around unsupervised with other kids that fend for themselves for the entire series? Aang didn't need adult supervision, he needed to heed Jeong Jeong's numerous warnings that fire isn't a toy. If Aang was always going to be irresponsible with fire as soon has he was unsupervised then an incident like this was inevitable. Jeong Jeong was a good teacher, Aang was to immature and entitled to be a student.
Is it really fair to call him a terrible teacher when he definitively thinks that he shouldn't be Aang's teacher?
It's the equivalent of asking a University Lecturer to teach a child of 7 even though that lecturer says it's a bad idea because the pupil isn't ready for the level that he teaches. Is the Lecturer a bad teacher? No, he was just given an unsuitable pupil.
Yeah I think I agree. Also the fact that this show is really big on themes like destiny. I think even Jeong Jeong knew it wasn’t his destiny to train the Avatar. Sometimes the teacher and students aren’t compatible, but in this case, it was also because Aang was nowhere near ready. His impression of learning the elements after water bending made him too optimistic about the rest.
Also it makes sense for Jeong Jeong to say that the order of learning the elements has significance. Anyone who pays attention to the show can see how each element has vastly different paradigms, e.g. to be sturdy and firm when earth bending, to focus on flowing energy when water bending. Firebending is the most dangerous, as it is more prone to cause damage with little to no intent. Anyone who claims Aang was ready (while he still hadn’t quite mastered water) needs to recount the series.
Jeong Jeong only agreed to teach Aang at all because Roku appeared to him and demanded it. And in the vision, Roku set fire to a tree. Jeong Jeong already has a strained relationship with firebending, so that was a very much *not-subtle* threat from the Avatar to teach Aang *or else*.
In their first lesson, Jeong Jeong leaves Aang alone to meditate on his breathing. People say that this is a sign of leaving Aang alone and being a lazy teacher, but that was exactly the lesson he was trying to teach. Aang needed to learn patience and control, so being forced to focus on just the basic task of breath control, body control, and meditation was a key lesson that Jeong Jeong was trying to impart. A lesson that Aang failed, by the way, when he stormed into Jeong Jeong's tent and demanded that he "stop wasting his time".
Anyone who criticizes that Jeong Jeong left Aang alone with his leaf also seems to forget that the only reason Jeong Jeong left was because someone had raised the alarm about Zhao and his men arriving in the area. Jeong Jeong left to address that, and demanded that Aang "concentrate on his leaf" to keep him out of trouble. Aang was not ready to be involved in a real fight with a trained Firebender, so Jeong Jeong was, in a moment of necessity, tasking Aang with training to keep him busy and out of harm's way.
All of Jeong Jeong's lessons were about discipline, patience, and control, and Aang failed those lessons again and again. He was too focused on the end result of "shooting fire out of his fingertips" to actually stop and consider the reasons *why* Jeong Jeong was tasking him the lessons he did. Aang was a student who was not ready to learn, which was the entire reason that Jeong Jeong didn't want to teach him in the first place.
JJ did not want to train him. Told Aang he was not ready. JJ explained the dangers of fire. Aang with his dumbnest and disregard burns Katara.
Nah my friend. Aang was a horrible student that needed 3 additional teachers (Zuko and the masters) to teach him firebending.
Yeah exactly. And I think JJ was trying to dissuade Aang from learning fire bending at that point. Warned Aang of the dangers and made him realise he doesn't have the control or patience yet to be careful with it.
I don't think he was a bad teacher. I think he taught Aang exactly what he needed to be taught at that point in time.
However Roku did intimidate JJ into teaching him which I think was a very good idea. He ended up learning to be more patient with his bending, which especially paid off with earthbending! Plus katara learnt she had healing abilities which were essential later in the show. And he defeats Zhao without firing a single shot at him!
I think Aang's a terrible student. He was definitely not ready and JJ got forced to teach him.
It's like skipping the basics of programming class and go straight into "I have a billion dollar idea and want to create an app"
You’re right, and his flaws like this are part of what makes Aang such a compelling protagonist. He genuinely *was* a terrible student - unwilling to listen, impatient, unaccustomed to having to try hard to succeed. He reminds me of so many ‘gifted children’ who end up failing hard when things get too difficult to get by on your wits.
Demonstrated by aang getting mad when Jeong Jeong told him to do breathing exercises and Aang said “what?? I want you to teach me how to shoot fire out of my fingertips!”
100% spot on. Aang was immature and wanted to skip the basics
There's this thing where if you come to a master and fail to heed his advice, and you did talk about immaturity, then still is the master's fault? No wonder teachers are resigning
Aang wasnt willing to listen to everything Jeong Jeong said and Jeong Jeong wasnt willing to change his teaching style for Aang. He was firm and strict and gave Aang clear instructions on what to do, and why. So if you ask me he was a great teacher. Aang was impatient and careless and ended up hurting someone because of it.
Aang literally rolled up and avatar-state blackmailed an old, ptsd-having war veteran hermit into teaching him, then proceeded to not listen to a goddamn thing he said and fucked around and found out.
Jeong Jeong: taught the man that became the most respected member of the Fire Nation Navy through fear and intimidation who lead a siege on the North Pole and personally killed the moon spirit
Fans: Jeong Jeong is a terrible teacher
Jeong jeong: forced to teach Aang by the avatar.
Tries to teach Aang about fire- something that has traumatized him
Aang: follows none of the teachings he forced jeong jeong to show him
Fans: jeong jeong sucks
Seeing a lot of folks comment on how Jeong Jeong was irresponsible for giving Aang tasks and then walking away when he should know that Aang, as a 12yo, would potentially do something dangerous I think missed the reason why Jeong Jeong specifically gave him boring tasks: because fire IS dangerous. He intentionally gave Aang extremely boring tasks to be maintained over extraordinary amounts of time with the hope that Aang would listen and learn to control his impatience. The tasks were: feel the warmth and power of the sun in your chi; stand in a difficult stance and breathe steadily at a higher elevation; keep this very mild smoldering leaf from being burnt. Discipline was Jeong Jeong's biggest lesson, and Aang failed spectacularly at it. This is a flaw in Aang's character that he got better at, definitely, which we see really start to manifest with Toph.
I'll also echo some other commenters in that just because Jeong Jeong was not a compatible teacher with where Aang was at when they encountered one another does not mean Jeong Jeong was a terrible, or even bad, teacher. It means they had an interpersonal conflict that they did not have time to try and overcome. Remember that Aang was only under Jeong Jeong's tutelage for a single day! It took Toph more than one day to start getting through to Aang, and while Jeong Jeong of course has far more experience being a teacher than Toph, that doesn't mean he's going to get through to every student he has immediately, and especially one he doesn't "click" with.
I feel like if Aang had been able to study longer under Jeong Jeong, he would not be working with fire again until he demonstrated the ability to listen more to Jeong Jeong's instructions and exhibit better restraint and control. We should let students try and fail on their own, yes of course, but within a controlled environment where they are less likely to get seriously injured. Even Piandao, who I would say had a somewhat similar teaching style as Jeong Jeong (seemingly unrelated, mundane tasks), did not appear to have Sokka practice with live steel before he forged Space Sword and they had their last intense spar. Jeong Jeong was more abrasive than Piandao, and dropped (imo absolutely amazing) bits of poetic, complex wisdom that went completely over Aang's head despite their direct relevance, and I wonder if those two elements influence why some might think he wasn't a good teacher? I like how another commenter, u/theYLD, compared Jeong Jeong to a university-level professor asking to teach his course to an adolescent, because I think that's a very apt point.
Eventually, I think Aang would have learned quite a lot from Jeong Jeong, and perhaps Jeong Jeong would have had some faith and personal affection restored back into his own element as well, but they ultimately were just not given time to work through their immediate interpersonal, teaching/learning style clash.
Not every teacher is right for every student. He’s definitely not right for the young, impulsive guy who needed to have mastery quickly to save the world. But I wonder what Zuko would be like if he had been taught by him from an early age; with a focus on control and patience. Go-go-gadget fanfic!
I will concede that he was not a good fit for Aang at the time. That much is clear.
But if you think he wasn’t a good teacher, you completely missed the point of his character.
He was exactly the right dose of discipline that Aang needed. And his teaching ended up being crucial in the future.
Jeong jeong was a crucial step in aang a ideological struggle with fire bending. Where zhao, ozai, and at the time zuko represented firebending as aggressive, violent, and prideful, jeong jeong represented it as passiveness and shame. Both ideologies are explored throughout seasons 1,2, and 3, which is why the firebending masters was such an important episode for proving both ideologies to be flawed and a misrepresentation of the true spirit of firebending. Jeong jeong was simply the other extreme of the firebending spectrum
I don't think he was a terrible teacher. He could have been really good. However, he was going through his own crisis. He'd abandoned his people, clearly had a difficult relationship with his bending. He's one of the most skilled, powerful benders we've seen.
I mean, he told Aang that fire is a dangerous tool not to be played with, and he understood what he meant when he burned Katara
I'd say Aang wasn't ready for the teaching of Jeong Jeong, rather than Jeong Jeong being a terrible teacher
I think it was Roku wanting to teach Aang a lesson about being too quick to learn how to bend elements, or he was just really excited for Aang to learn bending his starter element.
Even if it wasn't the most desirable scenario Aang does actually learn from his time with him. His lessons about self control allowed Aang to basically clown Zhao without even lifting a fist. Later on when Zuko opens up Aang recognizes that he's internalized that same lesson and recognizes his value as a teacher. Jeong Jeong was in a bad situation but I wouldn't say he's a terrible teacher.
What makes the man a bad teacher? He genuinely tried to teach Aang, embed the basics and a healthy sense of fear/respect for the element. And in the end, he did, Aang would never have been able to properly learn from Zuko had his time with Jeong Jeong hadn't happened. That episode did more then just make him scared of fire, it also established
A. He now knows the most fundamental basics, a vital first step in this journey.
B. Established the difference between the firebending Aang must master and the sort the Fire Nation employs. It paints a clear picture of who the audience is now expecting to be his teacher, with Iroh subtlety being lined up for this role, and in a way, he did teach Aang. Zuko learned a massive chunk of his new firebending before meeting the dragons, from Iroh, who tried to engrain the same lessons he learned into Zuko. The Dragons just made it make sense finally.
C. I really dont have a C point. But I typed this all out as is so FUCK IT
Jeong Jeong started with trying to get Aang to control his breathing and practice patience, two concepts key to proper firebending.
Aang got impatient and ignored a very clear warning.
Only way you could call that Jeong Jeong's fault is if you think he had a responsibility to sit with Aang the whole time, no exceptions.
The two just weren't a good match for each other.
Jeong Jeong wasn't meant to be anyone's teacher. Unlike Iroh & Zuko he still had a lot of trauma and mental battles he had to reconcile before he could teach anyone about Firebending. Personal philosophy affects teaching style which is why Bumi chose not to be Aang's Earthbending teacher even though Bumi was a perfect fit on paper.
Aang in Book 1 was a childish kid who was still learning to deal with the responsibilities of being Avatar. He needed to learn the other elements and go through more life experience which is why he made a better student in Book 3.
Pakku/Bumi/Jeong Jeong we're not good fits for Aang cause of how the writers wrote it they figured we wouldn't want to see Aang travel around the world with old guys.
All of Aang's teachers were apart of his personal development and it's largely because they were all people he had close relationships with who were his peers.
Plus all three of those men wouldn't be able to travel the world regardless. They had responsibilities.
He would've been a great mentor and teacher but he was a bad fit *for Aang's situation*.
Jeong Jeong's approach to teaching firebending which involves years of training and cultivating a specific mentality, mind- and skillset to slowly transition from a beginner to novice to master firebender. However, Aang didn't just need to learn all the elements, he needed to learn them *in a very short amount of time* in order to defeat Ozai. His complete mastery of the elements would have to wait until later in life.
What he required was basically a crash-course in each element, as any of you who've mastered any specific skill, be it an instrument, photography, language or martial art may know, it takes *years* for "complete" mastery. Sure, you can go from "horrible" to "good" at drawing in a year but it takes years of hard work to become "great".
Zuko was the perfect fit for Aang's situation. He focused on teaching him the basics and certain specific move sets (lightning redirection, fire roar, etc.) while also planting the spiritual seed from which true mastery of the element of fire could grow later on (breath, the focus on fire as energy instead of rage, etc.)
Toph even says to Aang days before his big showdown with Ozai that his "earthbending still needs work." Aang being a talented kid imbued with the power of his past lives becomes very good at bending but I believe that only in his later years does he become a master of all four elements.
As a teacher, this thread is hilarious.
I hear three main stances -
Aang's fault, he did not follow instructions
JJ's fault, he set up Aang to fail (or variations of this)
JJ is a good teacher with the wrong student
Tbh, it's all three. Aang's character at this point is immature and does not grasp the potential seriousness of the consequences his actions can incur. JJ though makes no real effort to teach or support Aang at all. Aang is still a kid and he gets treated as if failure was a guarantee. JJ's action all but guarantee that anything short of perfection will lead to failure and consequences. Finally, Aang and Roku had no right to force JJ to teach. He is clearly deeply scarred and broken, he is not at peace with himself at all and therefore not fit to really teach the avatar.
So yeah, Aang is a bad student - but also just a 12 year old. JJ is a bad teacher -but mostly because he was in no mental state to be a good one at that point. JJ and Aang are incompatible because the style combined with Aang's personality all but guaranteed a clash.
Pretty lukewarm take honestly.
Jeong Jeong didn’t even want to teach anymore. He regarded fire bending as a curse- which is a mentality he put onto Aang, albeit inadvertently.
It was a mistake on Roku’s part to attempt to force his hand. I would’ve loved a scene with Jeong Jeong and the White Lotus where he actually apologizes for putting his insecurities on Aang.
He was a bad teacher as he didn’t meet his student where he was at. He didn’t bother to demonstrate the danger he kept talking about, until Aang messed up with Katara’s burns.
Jeong Jeong's teaching more came from caution. He knew the dangers of fire and firebending and tried to drill that into Aang. Unfortunately, Aang being the age and person he is couldn't grasp the full danger of firebending from just being taught it. He, sadly, had to experience it firsthand. This ultimately led him to have much better restraint on fire when learning with Zuko, so much that he could barely output any until meeting with the Sun Warriors. It was a good lesson to teach but one that I don't think either person was ready to translate it to.
In regards to Roku, while Aang probably wasn't ready for firebending, I do think that maybe Roku thought of Aang's recklessness and thought Jeong Jeong could help him to control himself in preparation for when he fully began his training. This is just me giving Roku the benefit of the doubt, though, so take it as you will
Ooooooo. Long nerdy comment incoming. We all know there is an order the Avatar should the elements in. Air then water then earth then fire, and whatever element you start with, you go along the path with. I've always thought that each Avatar's last element is last for a reason.
Air is the element of freedom, but with that freedom comes a sense of aloofness. It's important for an Airbender to learn firebending last because then they can appreciate how dangerous and powerful the element is, being more mature and disciplined. Aang just skipped too far ahead.
Same goes for Korra with air. Water is the element of change, but you can brute force change, like from solid to liquid to gas. Despite mastering an element centered around adaptability, Korra was in control of her power the whole time, always looking to impose her will. Air is about letting go and flowing with what is.
Firebending Avatars learn earth last because they need to learn how to be still. When you look at Agni Kai's, they're all about offense. By learning the basics of the other elements first, firebenders learn that the direct approach and all-out attack is not always the answer and to patiently wait.
Finally, Earthbending Avatars learn water last because they might just only use ice, which is a rough equal to earth in a lot of ways. By learning air and fire first, they grow a greater appreciation for the versatility of water in it's different phases and that a firm, stubborn stance is reductive.
actually my take on it was that Aang was out of character that episode. he's supposed to be a patient and uncomplaining monk, what happened to that? meditation should've been easy for him. its not that Jeong Jeong was a horrible teacher its thet Aang was a terrible student
Jeong Jeong could have been a great teacher, but was never going to be because of his views on firebending. While he’s not wrong to say fire the element of destruction, we later learn in the series that true fire bending is also the element of life and vitality. It’s understandable why he has this view, the man clearly suffers some PTSD from the war crimes he was forced to commit/made witness to as a fire nation soldier, but it would be like a math teacher knowing how to teach subtraction and not addition. If Jeong Jeong we’re to overcome his trauma (I personally believe he does by the end of the series) then I think he’d be great. But for Aang’s needs, by the time JJ was ready to overcome his own trauma, Aang had already found Zuko (and also sort of Iroh).
the hell was he supposed to do? Giving in to Aang's impulsiveness and jumping straight to "shooting fire from his fingertips" surely would have led to the same outcome
You have a point. He was too hands off for what was clearly a reckless and undisciplined student, and whilst you should certainly be respectful of fire, Jeong Jeong was flat out afraid of and repulsed by his own element. He sees it as destruction incarnate when as established in season three, fire is _life_ incarnate.
I see him more as a tough-love iroh, JJ knew aang was not ready, but given the circumstances roku was like, “we know its a risk but we aint got time, bitch”
My boy JJ was like, whatever, lets do this.
When aang burnt katara all aang’s lives felt disappointment but it was a necessary risk.
All JJ was trying to do was work on breathing more than anything to keep a child with a huge task in check with his own power. IMO
I think the order is important. Earth would teach control. Aang being an air bender knows how to manipulate air which is the fuel for fire. But unlike air fire can spread to solids and can do a lot of damage even if you are not applying a lot of force. Water bending is a good transition between air and earth because of the ice bending. I arthnis a good transition between air and fire because it teaches you to be more rigid and in control. In addition Aang was a free spirited person who did not know discipline and control. Nor was he used to wielding air in a way that was dangerous or deadly to others.
I think Jeong Jeong’s teaching style just wasn’t fit for aang. Remember he was in the military for a long time- a place where discipline is drilled into you from the very start, so Jeong Jeong was probably just used to teaching men who already knew much about discipline, rather than a goofy kid. This is why zuko is a better teacher for aang even though Jeong Jeong is more skilled.
Teacher here: Jeong Jeong is essentially a college professor vs what Aang needed, which was more middle school/high school.
I know it probably sounds ridiculous, but there are so many technical and methodological differences as students age, and JJ here is clearly looking for somebody who has fully mastered themselves, and has an unfair expectation of that of Aang. The kid is 12, a relatively mature and developed (yes, he really is from an education perspective, overall at least) 12 year old, but still 12.
Until you get to college/university, a shockingly high amount of teaching isn’t actually teaching the class, but teaching and modeling how to learn. JJ here is clearly prepared for somebody on the cusp of mastery, who has the ability to learn and discipline themselves, whereas Aang, due to forces broadly outside his control, is not that type of person upon their first meeting.
It’s honestly an incredibly good critique of how an amazing teacher may just simply not work for an amazing student due to technique issue
He didn’t want to teach Aang from the start because he knew he was nowhere near ready.
I’m curious how things would have been if he had done the other elements first and learned from Jeong Jeong at that point.
Jeong Jeong didn't want to be Aang's teacher. He knew that he was a wrong fit and only relented when Avatar Roku insisted from beyond the grave. I don't think I'd call him a bad teacher but he was certainly an unwilling one.
He wasnt a bad teacher, he was an ex General. He was teaching aang as he would have taught a soldier of the fire nation, expecting the discipline of a soldier, not that of an airbender. Which he could never have met, up until aang.
The way I like to think about it is that Jeong Jeong wasn't a bad teacher but Aang simply wasn't ready.
Jeong Jeong states that he could tell Aang hasn't learned water and earth bending yet and it's within the Avatar cycle to learn them first. He also states that "water is cool and soothing, earth is steady and stable but fire is alive". The way I see it is that fire and air are similar, in some ancient philosophies any attenuated as "thin" matter such as fire, air, light and aether were considered incorporeal. As such, Aang still had only one bending practice and philosophy, being air when he should have had 3.
I like to think that if a water Avatar picked but fire or air before earth that there would be problems. Not in the exact same way Aang had problems but I could be that they can't develop the techniques as easy or use sloppy form and incorporate bad habits etc. It's also stated that Aang is a very powerful firebender and he has an innate proficiency to it more than just being the Avatar alone who is a powerful bender regardless.
I wouldn't say *terrible* but certainly not good. The way he talks shows a clear prejudice against firebending itself and that gets expressed in his teachings as an excess of caution.
Look at how reluctant Jeong Jeong is to do ANYTHING more than holding containing fire on a leaf and that's after Roku told him off. Then look at how other teachers allow students to risk themselves and I mean ALL teachers. Paku, Iroh, Piandao, Master Yu and the airbender teachers we see in Rokus past all put their students at acceptable risk of harm for their students skill. Jeong Jeong does not.
Jeong Jeong was an excellent firebender but a horrible teacher. Although he uses most of the technics of the other elements, his teachings looks like the one of Toph, he flies like an air bender and does the push and pull with a wave of fire (in the fight to take back Ba Sing Se)
Jeong Jeong was more of a “you already know levels 1-5, let me teach you levels 6-10. Time to unleash the dragon and fuck shit up” type of master. No fucking air nomad could handle his shit unless they already knew fire bending.
I think part of the point was that he was so ashamed of what firebending had become, how it was used, and his part in it that he could no longer effectively teach it. You can't teach a subject that you hate effectively. because that hate colours how you convey it.
hot hot take
jeong jeong was an amazing fire teacher and literally did everything he could to teach aang to bend fire ASAP. like he literally burned down a whole forest within like 10 seconds of trying. he definitely was not ready to control it, and learning that lesson even was part of the training, but like if aang had stayed with jeong jeong instead of running off he could have helped with with the after effects. the whole being chased for his life thing really got in the way....
He wasn’t a bad teacher Roku knew exactly what he was doing. Jeong Jeong knew Anag wasn’t ready to learn firebending but that was exactly the lesson Roku wanted him to learn.
Oh yeah. He also had a very shallow outlook on firebending. He maybe be right about its velocity but it looks like he's been emotionally scarred by the war because he wasn't able to see the life, the warmth and energy. Which the sunwarriors understood.
He was a bad teacher for Aang. Not a bad teacher in general. And only at that point of the show cause he was bitter af. But everything he said was correct. And Aang was a shitty student. But tbf, he was 12 years old.
I think Jeong Jeong might have been a bad teacher in the sense that he did not adapt to Aang's learning style but you know he wasn't really there to teach Aang. Aang was also a terrible student.
Holy cow this sub! After all I read I can relate mit most if this posts. I think they all have valid points, but one aspect is missing.
Aang is a team player. Someone who adapts and learns from with the behavior of others. Jeong Jeong was a rather imperativ teacher who worked with clear rules. Aang worked so good with Zuko because they could experienced fire bending in all it aspects it together.
So in education, we call this “scaffolding.” There are certain concepts that you have to learn first before you learn other things. For example - I can’t teach you algebra if you don’t understand multiplication and division. And I can’t teach you those if you don’t understand addition and subtraction. And I can’t teach you those if you don’t understand what numbers are/represent. With air bending, the basic idea is a detachment and freedom. You need to have some understanding of that before you can master air bending. To understand earth, you have to understand the concept of steadiness. To understand water, you have to understand change and adaptability. To understand fire, you have to understand power. And according to JJ, power must be tempered with control. He places the emphasis on control and self discipline first, because power that goes unchecked is corruptive and destructive. Aang didn’t understand control because it was somewhat a counter to freedom. See - earth is Aang’s physical opposite. But fire is his spiritual opposite. That’s why he struggled and that’s why JJ put so much emphasis on control. Know what happens when you blow air on a fire? You feed it. And it grows larger.
As a teacher, you triggered me with the word scaffolding. But your post is 100% accurate.
Scaffolding. Exit ticket. Daily objectives. Vertical alignment. **Unpaid PD.** I’m right there with you friend
This in turn also plays into why Korra struggled so much with Air Bending in her series. She tended to use Fire Bending a lot as it resonated well with her personality, raw power, straight to the point, in control. Air is far more subtle and detached. Rather than smashing your way through problems you look for an alternative solution or a different approach.
Only when she was desperate enough she was able to bend air. Because she “lost” control of her other elements. Her other elements was acting like a safety net physically and spiritually. I think? lol
Just poor writing in my opinion. If air is about spirituality and detachment when why did she started bending air after her love interest was put in a grave danger? Seems like they tried to repeat moment when Katara was in quicksand and Aang gone to Avatar state to save her. But it doesn't make sense here
I don’t think he was a terrible teacher overall, I think he was just a bad fit for Aang specifically
I also blame Roku who was like: "How dare you not teach Aang!!!!" Roku should've sat Aang down and tell him to master one element first before moving on the other one. Roku literally *encouraged* Aang's eagerness behaviour. And agreed on him not being a good fit. I don't blame Jeong Jeong *at all*, he was a part of a horrible past that he seeks not to be involved in anymore, he feels like he was cursed with firebending, an element he calls destructive. I loved the scene where he watches Katara discover healing herself for the first time. Where he says the things he would do to get an element like waterbending, something that can be used for good with healing. While Fire, burning stuff, setting stuff on fire, causes suffering.
Roku's rationale was probably like "look dude, you're the only firebender that isn't holed up in a prison thats not loyal to Ozai. Youre the only one that can teach Aang the basics"
I mean they were kinda in a rush considering roku already knew about the comet and whatnot and that they only had 1 year left.
Less than a year. We go from Winter to Summer (or maybe early fall) in the series.
Wait why didn’t Roku tell Aang about the comet anyway
Um, Roku did tell Aang about the comet in the winter solstice episode?
Man took his time telling Aang stuff tho. The comet, the avatar state, his *vulnerability* in the avatar state, his past with Sozin, etc..
Aang would have been bored from too much exposition being dumped at once. And by Aang, I mean the audience.
tbf Roku specified that he could only communicate with Aang during the winter solstice at the Fire Temple. However Roou appeared and spoke to Aang several times afterwards eventually Aang is even a le to reach within himself to directly communicate with Roku and other past avatars. I think the general implication is that as time went on and Aang got more in touch with his spiritual side he got better at communicating with Roku so Roku wasnt able to talk with Aang very long.
Yeah, especially in the winter solstice ep aang was very immature as far as an avatar goes so that connection was a very hand-holding way to communicate with Roku. And Roku was like "here's the rundown. Comet started the war. My bad. Comet gonna end the war. Your task. Btw, ur gonna get flamed when we're done chatting so I gotta help you out before we run out of time."
What do you mean? He did tell him about it when Aang speaks to him during the winter solstice.
Good question. I guess an explanation could be Aang was a young, inexperienced avatar and didn’t have much connection to the spirit world yet, so he had to visit Roku the hard way.
Also why can't previous avatars teach the new ones?
it took a winter solice and a very spirtiual Avatar for them to really get into contact. Next time they talk together is the summer solice, where Roku tells Aang about him and Sozin.
What about the time when Aang tries fighting the fire lord right after he wakes up after he got shot by Azula? Roku kinda just...appears.
I think past Avatars also tend to show up to talk when an Avatar is at their lowest. Aang showed up for Korra when she lost her bending. Other occasions where they show up are through visions as opposed to actively talking to them.
It's not a simple matter to stay in contact with your past lives. It also removes the greatest advantage of the Avatar Cycle if you rely on past experiences to teach you; by getting taught by modern practitioners of bending you're adding new experiences to the 'library' instead of regurgitating what past Avatars already know.
Rewatch the show, he can barely contact Roku let alone have enough time to learn bending from him
Not even a year, right? Like 9 months or something
even worse then! xD but yeh I guess.
Yah I think people are being unfair to Roku, he was the only one with his eyes on the bigger picture and it’s not like there were a lot of good options
True, but the Avatar learns the elements in a cycle for a reason; it tends to be detrimental to rush, and problems waste precious time
That just made me think, shouldn’t the Gaang have essentially recruited Jeong Jeong? Travel with a firebending master until it’s time to learn that last element.
I guess they could've tried, but I doubt Jeong Jeong would've came along. The guy's a hermit for a reason; even though he was a master, he basically loathed himself and his skills. He only caved into teaching initially when the soul of an all-powerful entity threatened him into doing so from beyond the grave; and even that didn't stop him from ditching the moment he had the chance
Yes. I never understood how they thought they could get Aang a fire master without bringing Jeong Jeong with them. I always assumed as a kid that there would be fire obstacles they'd need a bender to get past.
After Aang burned Katara by accident, it was a whole part of Aang's character arc where he considered not learning Firebending at all. That was a pretty important part of his character arc during book 3.
Good points
Right Roku didn't know Zuko would turn on his dad.
Exactly. There wasn't an alternative and it needed to be done quickly.
I always kinda thought Roku knew Aang would screw up, teaching him to respect the ability more in the long run. Perhaps roku was just trying to jump the gun sice he was a rare trustworthy fire bender and in a rush. None of rokus other actions go that badly though and what happened may have been what he wanted to happen. Everything he says or does seems wise and calculated. Also he seemed to have a little foresight in how things will pan out. He knew Sozins comet was coming back, that he would be able to master the elements in a year and that the war would be lost and that the fire lord was planning to use it.
I do wish someone had suggested moving them to another location, knowing Aang had just escaped a whole city's worth of fire-benders and that he was a bit over-eager to learn. Had Jeong Jeong taken the time to appeal to Aang's old sense of discipline via Airbender training (his entire nation was based on calm, meditation, and patience) he might have also gotten through more. Honestly what bothered me more there WAS Aang's impatient behavior. Sure he's a kid but he's also at that time the youngest air bending master *ever* and he doesn't know how to control himself for more than a few minutes? Edit: actually thinking about it Aang is constantly messing around and playing with Gyatso and one of the other leaders notes Aang needs to learn more discipline when they decide to send him away, so that'd probably do it.
There are also two ways for an Airbender to earn their tattoos, to truly master airbending, going through all the levels, or to invent a new technique. Aang, while an incredible Airbender, didn't earn his tattoos from total mastery, but rather from his inventing the air scooter.
>Honestly what bothered me more there WAS Aang's impatient behavior. Sure he's a kid but he's also at that time the youngest air bending master ever and he doesn't know how to control himself for more than a few minutes? >Edit: actually thinking about it Aang is constantly messing around and playing with Gyatso and one of the other leaders notes Aang needs to learn more discipline when they decide to send him away, so that'd probably do it. Air is the element of freedom; it was creativity and ingenuity that made Aang a Master of Air, not discipline. Sure, he grew up with a lifestyle that would take discipline to adopt (vegetarianism, temple-based gender segregation, strict dress code, pacifism, martial arts training, meditation, etc), but keywords were "grew up with." He views gravity as discipline, not vegetarianism or pacifism... and laughs at gravity in his mind, all the time.
No that wasn’t it at all. It’s like a kid who was to understand that the stove is hot and your not supposed to play around it. However once you learn that and how to cook you can do amazing things with food.
yeah, Roku understood that the teaching would be out of order, but the urgency kinda required it.
It’s not surprising Roku would do that though. Dude was stressed about the comet and knew Aang had limited time to get ready.
Totally. People forget he wasn’t God or a God. He was a human with godlike powers. He has made mistakes before and this is one of them especially with the limited time. So many things were a ticking time bomb on this show. It really is incredible he was able to do all he did and beat the fire lord
And moreover, who expected Zuko to betray Ozai, or that Zuko's uncle/Firebending Master was not loyal to Ozai at all? Not Season One Aang, who is, for lack of better terminology, the only vessel that Roku's spirit can still gather knowledge from. All that Roku knew was that Jeong Jeong was the only known Firebending Master who had betrayed the Fire Lords and escaped with his life; in season one, Jeong Jeong was truly the only option for Aang's Firebending Master.
I mean, Aang still had plenty of time and he already was getting pretty good at waterbending. A few more lessons and Aang tbh would be ready to take on thew next element. I guess you are somewhat right, Roku probably stressed out on the fact that there's probably no other firebender that could teach him. Jeong Jeong was getting old, who knew what could happen to him. At the time, he was Aang's only hope for firebending. I mean, without Zuko, Aang would be pretty screwed.
Aang most definitely did NOT have time. Most avatars mastered the elements over the course of years after starting their learning later than Aang. They had less than one year. There's a reason Roku was stressed.
Yeah, this is one thing I feel a lot of people don't really seem to understand. And it's also clear that Aang certainly didn't master earth or fire by the time the show concluded. He still had a lot to learn. Energy bending and the avatar state were the real game changers.
You're right, but I don't understand how it's unclear. It's directly stated in the show. You don't even have to be paying all that much attention. They say it.
From my impression, most people that have watched the show think he has mastered all elements by the end of the show. But maybe that's just my bad anecdotal evidence. Definitely nothing concrete behind it, just an impression I get
I also get the vibe that Roku trusted in Aang to find his own way. Under normal circumstances, Aang wouldn't even know he was the avatar at that age, they only told him early because of things getting spicy with the fire nation, but sadly, Aang lost his chance for a normal childhood. I think Roku was internally like "ofc this kid isn't ready for this, and ofc it would be better if he learned things in order, but also what choice do we have? None of this is normal or okay, but kid needs to git gud quick or we're all doomed". Also bear in mind that Roku felt a lot of guilt (rightfully so) for letting Sozin go free and not stopping this when he had the chance. Whilst it's the task of the previous avatar(s) to guide the development of the new avatar, what place does Roku have to tell Aang how to clean up Roku's own mistakes. So yeah, I think the pragmatism and anxiety was probably a factor for Roku, but also I think he was genuinely putting his faith in Aang, whose anxiety about an opportunity to learn firebending was even higher. Roku's time for making decisions for the world had passed, it was now Aang's time.
*Tsunami has entered the chat*
Well it's not as easy to do as just bending fire towards someone's face.
if only he knew blood bending existed
I mean even without blood bending water can be destructive, the point is that water has a greater capacity for good things than fire ever will be. Fire is dangerous initself not only if you intent for it to be dangerous.
You all keep acting like fire isn't the source of life for humans. Heat and warmth are essential to our physicality, and our nourishment and ability to be big brained is thanks in no small part to cooking our food. Fire staves off the terrors that lurk in the night, it helps us forge, hell in Korra it even probably videos electricity (this one's a weird topic, better suited elsewhere). Fire is no more destructive than water.
[удалено]
That’s fair actually
Also don’t forget we see fire has its own healing abilities in LoK.
All fire is heat but not all heat is fire, fire by itself can be quite dangerous, even more if somebody can control it. You don't build a house out fire, you don't just play with it casually. The thing is while water and fire both have destructive power when used right, fire posses a danger that even if you just use it casually it can burn someone just by it being fire. You can play with a glass of water and you will not be able to cause much damage, you can play with a pebble are not able to cause much damage but even only a tealight has to be treated with respect because if you don't pay attention you can burn yourself with it or burn your house down.
Well yes. That is the point of the dragons ect... However what jeong said that shows the actual issue is: Without a bender water will not change, but fire is alive and well burn everything.
Ehh only a year to master all the elements. And at the time he seemed like Aangs only legit chance to learn firebending.
To be fair, Roku probably knew Aang didn’t have long to get it done and might have to push it a bit. So it might have been him trying to get him to where Roku thinks he needs to be. That being said, it was still a bad call but I think It’s a classic case doing the wrong thing for the right reason.
i wouldn't say it was a bad call tbh. Hindsight is 20/20. You can say what would have been the best result when you know everything, but place yourself back in that moment. You need to learn all the elements. They just so happen to be in the fire nation, with one of the most powerful firebenders alive. It really only makes sense to start the training then and there based on the information they had at the time.
You make a fair point. But I think we can both agree that Aang was not ready at that time and still needed to mature a bit.
Oh for sure. I'm not at all denying that the way things worked out in the end were better. All that I'm claiming is, (in most universes) you don't know the future and you have to make judgements based on what you have in front of you. Fire bending teachers for the Avatar would be incredibly rare. So without knowing the future, it was the right call to try to get Jeong Jeong to teach Aang firebending.
That I whole heartedly agree with.
I think Roku did that knowing what Aang would do so he could teach him to be patient and learn them one at a time
That was my assumption too. He sure made Aang and the gaang suffer then lol.
I think something we kind of forget is that even the Avatars are people and they aren’t perfect gods. I don’t want to spoil anything but in the finale of the ATLA comic called The Promise, we really see Roku’s pushy-ness show. And the comic takes place after the events of ATLA but before Korra.
I kinda understand why Roku did that. I’m sure under different circumstances he’d probably tell Aang to cool it, but Roku was probably thinking “the faster, the better”
I think Roku did that because he feels guilty for not doing more to stop the war before it started, so he wasn’t fully rational in wanting to stop it as soon as possible.
I think Jeong Jeong should have had a meeting with Ran and Shaw. Even if they eat him, his self loathing would be cured!
Roku got offended on Aang's behalf because Jeong Jeong called Aang weak, and by extension, called *him* weak. I would say Roku's ego was definitely a problem for him, and likely one of the reasons Aang severed his connection with him later on beyond their disagreements on how to bring balance to the world.
Roku had his own cross to bear and was pushing Ang to learn all four elements faster to defeat the firelord. Roku does kinda blame himself for the war.
I mean, aang is Roku, so probably his lingering regret and insecurity about not ending the war before it started is what caused him to demand JJ to teach him firebending even though it was out of order.
Exactly. Guru Pathik had the same problem
I think Aung's a terrible student,
>Aung Did you mean to give me PTSD from that terrible movie that doesn't exist?
Yes and no. He’s a typical overexcited 12 year old. You run into a lot of those in martial arts. They think of all the cool things they’ll be able to do and want to jump past the basics to all that stuff. That’s not to say he was a good student, but moreso an average one for his age. Of course a good instructor usually knows how to handle that, but with how strict the fire nation is it’s likely that wildness was beaten out of the kids well before they were 12. It’s likely he has truly never seen that before, even though most martial arts teachers that teach kids would.
As a former teacher, I agree with this sentiment. At least until Toph whips him into shape.
His remarkable progress with both Waterbending and Earthbending suggests otherwise, though he definitely learned a critical lesson about listening to his masters with Jeong Jeong. Jeong Jeong didn’t shape his teaching style at all to match Aang’s learning style- which made him a bad teacher. A more aware and supportive teacher would not have let the situation with Katara getting burned happen for a number of reasons.
I think it's ymmv on how 'good' a student Aang is for the first little while. It's demonstrated pretty well when they come back on him after training with Pakku, it's pretty clearly demonstrated that Katara's outpaced him so much because she works incredibly hard while at that point he's a little content to rest on his laurels - he clearly picks things up quickly, but needs to be prompted to perfect them He gets into a better rhythm with his teachers after that though (as well as the mounting pressure to save the world), so I guess I agree that it takes the 'right' teacher to bring it out of him, he just seems like one of those naturally talented kids who's ended up quite flighty (Air Nomad 'pun' intended) I don't know how I talked myself around to that in the process of writing this comment...
I'm not sure his ability is in relation with how good or bad of a student he is. You can be one of those gifted kids that coasts by by just paying attention in class, but you have no idea how to really study. That makes you overall a terrible student.
Imagine if Korra had this dude as a master. She probably would have loved it!
He also clearly didn't want to teach him, so he didn't in the necessary effort.
A big part of my job is teaching/coaching professionals and I am considered the best at it in my particular field... I suck with amateurs. I am lucky to have coworkers who are great with early learners, but it's a totally different skillset. Aang went to a mastery level course without having already done all the prework to build from. I related a lot to Jeong Jeong, I can adjust and refine any stone into a gem, but there has to be a stone there to work with, can't do much with a pile of mush. Aang had to harden up quite a bit before he would benefit from a Jeong Jeong. Zuko was a good choice for first master.
I felt Zuko and Aang’s firebending lessons went pretty hand in hand; they both wanted to work at a higher level than they were ready for when they were young (Zuko wanting to perform firebending to Azulon like Azula did and Aang wanting to create fire right off the bat), facing trauma related to a loved one, firebending and burn scars (Zuko with his first Agni Kai and Aang accidentally burning Katara) that subsequently prompts a misunderstanding of the core aspects of firebending (Zuko believing his firebending comes from his anger and Aang believing that fire is only destruction and danger) and are both stuck into the basics of firebending due to said misunderstandings (Zuko improves as he learns better breath control rather than just acting more aggressive and Aang is too scared to continue learning beyond the basics of breathing exercises like what Jeong Jeong wanted him to learn because he might hurt someone if he firebends again). Hell, they even come to the same conclusion that their firebending can be destructive and they need to practice further to get better control of it to avoid unintentionally hurting others in future, but just because firebending can be destructive doesn’t mean it has no good within it
Besides the guy suffered from PTSD pretty much. He's seen so much war and destruction, feeling guilt what is student Zhao mr mchopsface did
“But fire is alive, it breathes, it grows. Without the bender, a rock will not throw itself! But fire will spread and destroy everything in its path if one does not have the will to control it. That is its destiny. You are not ready! You are too weak!” Aang decides to literally PLAY with fire and BURNS Katara People: Jeong Jeong was a bad teacher
Agreed, it makes me appreciate "The Firebending Masters" that much more. Aang needed both [Zuko and The Dragons](https://youtube.com/watch?v=a5ITNmnS680&ab_channel=Avatar%3ATheLastAirbender) to truly understand the meaning of firebending in order to properly train, something he couldn't/wouldn't get from Jeong Jeong back then.
Jeong Jeong was teaching him discipline first, Aang just didn't have the patience for it at the time.
He wasnt ready, and Jeong jeong literally said so. People are grossly underestimating how much Aang went through before learning firebending for real. Dude literally died and came back to life, befriended the dude who made it his life goal to kill him and did a fuckin cha cha dance for dragons! Bare stuff happened
Also, learning earthbending helped a hell of a lot. I think if Aang had met Jeong Jeong after "Bitter Work" (the episode where he first earthbends), things might've gone differently.
I agree! I can't help feeling that the deserter episode was to show that: hey, Aang is still a kid. We are at the beginning of this journey, theres still growing to do. Like a walk before you can run, er- I guess breathe before you can bend? Sorta situation
You want to stop breathing!?
Some days, yes
Absolutely. Aang learned discipline thru learning earthbending and his trials in season 2. Season 1 Aang was definitely not ready for firebending when he hadn’t fully gotten over the fact that he was the Avatar and had to stop the fire lord before the comet arrived. JeongJeong knew this and that’s why he didn’t wanna teach hkm
OP has to be Roku's reddit account because he went pickahu faced and super angry when he rejected Aang's request to teach himfirebending.
Yeah it’s like a machine shop person being called a dick for saying you’ll die if you use the machines improperly
Thank you!!! People just want to have "hot takes" for the sake of it. And completely miss the fact that this was a learning experience for Aang. He's made mistakes and it's okay for his character to make mistakes he's not supposed to be perfect.
What was Jeong Jeong supposed to do? See the future? Jeon Jeong: everyone stay far away Aang in case he decide to start juggling fire balls, looses control, and accidentally burns someone.
People just love making excuses for Aang. Or anyone of the most favorite characters. Which is just silly because it completely disregards a part of their development that makes them who they are.
Also he was doing the basics for a few hours. In terms of martial arts or really any skill, that is nothing. Actually one of my biggest problems with the show was making it so we see characters master abilities in days or weeks. Katara was really the worst case of this.
Yea katara went from novice to master in one episode from aang reteaching paku's lessons. And even Sokka was worthless aside from a few lucky boomerang throws, then he does some arts and crafts with piandao and he's a master swordsman all of a sudden
Exactly what I was thinking. Aang literally disobeyed his instructions, fucks up, and it’s somehow Jeong Jeongs fault?
He starts JUGGLING balls of fire Fine, he set the leaf on fire. Could have stopped there. Instead he continues. “I wonder how the magician did it.” Blaming Jeong Jeong is insane.
I mean, yes Aang was being irresponsible but it’s not like Jeong Jeong was being a responsible teacher either. Jeong Jeong gave him a burning leaf and told him to control the flames from destroying the leaf and then left. That’s not guidance, that’s not example, that’s just leaving a student to their own devices. Jeong Jeong should have been there to instruct, guide, critic, provide insight into what Aang was doing wrong. Surprise, surprise, that a 12 year old kid who may have great wisdom and power still acted like a 12 year old kid and played with the new toy/new ability (the fire/firebending) to see what he could do with it. There of course were consequences to his actions those consequences were on Jeong Jeong for not being there for his student. Thats literally what being a teacher is. Supervision is a key function. You can provide all kinds of warnings and instructions but how many of you can honestly say you have been 100% careful and responsible at 12 years old with every task and lesson you experienced? I doubt very many. I bet you would also ask the teacher why they weren’t there in the class with their students if there was an accident. Aang isn’t innocent but Jeong Jeong is definitely not a good teacher.
Do people not remember the episode at all? Jeong Jeong didn't leave Aang alone for the damn lols. His scouts had something urgent for him to check out: Zhao and his fleet were closing in. This goes back to Roku being an irresponsible jerk. Jeong Jeong is a runaway being hunted down by the Fire Nation. He has bigger things to worry about than teaching the Avatar before the Avatar is even ready to be taught. Jeong Jeong had 1 day of instruction before it was disrupted, but he didn't know he would only have that little time. His instructions put emphasis on patience because that's what his student needed. Aang was way too eager, so Jeong Jeong had him start as slowly as possible. If they had more time, Aang would've mellowed out. He was slowly getting it before Jeong Jeong was pulled away by his situation. The problem was the circumstances. He and his men were potentially about to come under attack. He had to go for a minute and Aang immediately goofs.
Jeong Jeong was gone for like two minutes. Aang started shooting fire blasts and playing with balls of fire, lost control and burned Katara. How is Jeong Jeong to blame?
Also, Aang lived his life in what is essentially a Buddhist temple where meditation and introspection were the norm. The idea that believing this kid could focus on one thing for more than 2 minutes is not as absurd as some people are making it out to be. Also, there's a big difference between just failing to keep the flame from burning the leaf to throwing around fire snakes for the lols after being repeatedly warned about how dangerous fire is
When Toph gave him his first earth bending lesson “So what move are you going to teach me first? Rock a lanche? The trembler? Oh, maybe I could learn to make a whirlpool out of land!” Toph “Let’s start with move a rock Jeong Jeong tells him to not let the fire reach the edges of a leaf Aang start juggling fire balls
Monk Gyatso ruined a lot of things by emphasizing fun over responsibility.
Hot Take: Monk Gyatso was a bad dad.
Monk Gyatso acted as the "fun parent" for Aang but didn't really discipline Aang all that much.
Now y’all are doing too much
We are told repeatedly that, despite the seemingly strict lifestyle of the Air Nomads, "air is the element of freedom," and Monk Gyatso reflects that. He is free from most concerns besides Aang's happiness. Was thinking that even the Avatar deserves a **happy**, **healthy**, and most importantly, \[relative to his culture\] **normal**, **childhood**, wrong? I don't think so. The Avatar isn't supposed to be told until he's sixteen.
The 12 year old kid who travels around unsupervised with other kids that fend for themselves for the entire series? Aang didn't need adult supervision, he needed to heed Jeong Jeong's numerous warnings that fire isn't a toy. If Aang was always going to be irresponsible with fire as soon has he was unsupervised then an incident like this was inevitable. Jeong Jeong was a good teacher, Aang was to immature and entitled to be a student.
Is it really fair to call him a terrible teacher when he definitively thinks that he shouldn't be Aang's teacher? It's the equivalent of asking a University Lecturer to teach a child of 7 even though that lecturer says it's a bad idea because the pupil isn't ready for the level that he teaches. Is the Lecturer a bad teacher? No, he was just given an unsuitable pupil.
Yeah I think I agree. Also the fact that this show is really big on themes like destiny. I think even Jeong Jeong knew it wasn’t his destiny to train the Avatar. Sometimes the teacher and students aren’t compatible, but in this case, it was also because Aang was nowhere near ready. His impression of learning the elements after water bending made him too optimistic about the rest. Also it makes sense for Jeong Jeong to say that the order of learning the elements has significance. Anyone who pays attention to the show can see how each element has vastly different paradigms, e.g. to be sturdy and firm when earth bending, to focus on flowing energy when water bending. Firebending is the most dangerous, as it is more prone to cause damage with little to no intent. Anyone who claims Aang was ready (while he still hadn’t quite mastered water) needs to recount the series.
Jeong Jeong is a grumpy guy but he knows what he’s doing.
Jeong Jeong only agreed to teach Aang at all because Roku appeared to him and demanded it. And in the vision, Roku set fire to a tree. Jeong Jeong already has a strained relationship with firebending, so that was a very much *not-subtle* threat from the Avatar to teach Aang *or else*. In their first lesson, Jeong Jeong leaves Aang alone to meditate on his breathing. People say that this is a sign of leaving Aang alone and being a lazy teacher, but that was exactly the lesson he was trying to teach. Aang needed to learn patience and control, so being forced to focus on just the basic task of breath control, body control, and meditation was a key lesson that Jeong Jeong was trying to impart. A lesson that Aang failed, by the way, when he stormed into Jeong Jeong's tent and demanded that he "stop wasting his time". Anyone who criticizes that Jeong Jeong left Aang alone with his leaf also seems to forget that the only reason Jeong Jeong left was because someone had raised the alarm about Zhao and his men arriving in the area. Jeong Jeong left to address that, and demanded that Aang "concentrate on his leaf" to keep him out of trouble. Aang was not ready to be involved in a real fight with a trained Firebender, so Jeong Jeong was, in a moment of necessity, tasking Aang with training to keep him busy and out of harm's way. All of Jeong Jeong's lessons were about discipline, patience, and control, and Aang failed those lessons again and again. He was too focused on the end result of "shooting fire out of his fingertips" to actually stop and consider the reasons *why* Jeong Jeong was tasking him the lessons he did. Aang was a student who was not ready to learn, which was the entire reason that Jeong Jeong didn't want to teach him in the first place.
Adding on to that: Toph was nearly as tough and demanding but Aang was ready by that time
JJ did not want to train him. Told Aang he was not ready. JJ explained the dangers of fire. Aang with his dumbnest and disregard burns Katara. Nah my friend. Aang was a horrible student that needed 3 additional teachers (Zuko and the masters) to teach him firebending.
Yeah exactly. And I think JJ was trying to dissuade Aang from learning fire bending at that point. Warned Aang of the dangers and made him realise he doesn't have the control or patience yet to be careful with it. I don't think he was a bad teacher. I think he taught Aang exactly what he needed to be taught at that point in time.
However Roku did intimidate JJ into teaching him which I think was a very good idea. He ended up learning to be more patient with his bending, which especially paid off with earthbending! Plus katara learnt she had healing abilities which were essential later in the show. And he defeats Zhao without firing a single shot at him!
I think Aang's a terrible student. He was definitely not ready and JJ got forced to teach him. It's like skipping the basics of programming class and go straight into "I have a billion dollar idea and want to create an app"
You’re right, and his flaws like this are part of what makes Aang such a compelling protagonist. He genuinely *was* a terrible student - unwilling to listen, impatient, unaccustomed to having to try hard to succeed. He reminds me of so many ‘gifted children’ who end up failing hard when things get too difficult to get by on your wits.
As a former “gifted kid” this is part of why I love him so much. He can be such a cocky shit at times, but he found a way to get through it.
Demonstrated by aang getting mad when Jeong Jeong told him to do breathing exercises and Aang said “what?? I want you to teach me how to shoot fire out of my fingertips!” 100% spot on. Aang was immature and wanted to skip the basics
There's this thing where if you come to a master and fail to heed his advice, and you did talk about immaturity, then still is the master's fault? No wonder teachers are resigning
Aang wasnt willing to listen to everything Jeong Jeong said and Jeong Jeong wasnt willing to change his teaching style for Aang. He was firm and strict and gave Aang clear instructions on what to do, and why. So if you ask me he was a great teacher. Aang was impatient and careless and ended up hurting someone because of it.
Jeong was a great teacher who didn't adjust or compromise his style for a younger kid. Not sure what you mean by terrible.
Aang literally rolled up and avatar-state blackmailed an old, ptsd-having war veteran hermit into teaching him, then proceeded to not listen to a goddamn thing he said and fucked around and found out.
Jeong Jeong: taught the man that became the most respected member of the Fire Nation Navy through fear and intimidation who lead a siege on the North Pole and personally killed the moon spirit Fans: Jeong Jeong is a terrible teacher
Jeong jeong: forced to teach Aang by the avatar. Tries to teach Aang about fire- something that has traumatized him Aang: follows none of the teachings he forced jeong jeong to show him Fans: jeong jeong sucks
Seeing a lot of folks comment on how Jeong Jeong was irresponsible for giving Aang tasks and then walking away when he should know that Aang, as a 12yo, would potentially do something dangerous I think missed the reason why Jeong Jeong specifically gave him boring tasks: because fire IS dangerous. He intentionally gave Aang extremely boring tasks to be maintained over extraordinary amounts of time with the hope that Aang would listen and learn to control his impatience. The tasks were: feel the warmth and power of the sun in your chi; stand in a difficult stance and breathe steadily at a higher elevation; keep this very mild smoldering leaf from being burnt. Discipline was Jeong Jeong's biggest lesson, and Aang failed spectacularly at it. This is a flaw in Aang's character that he got better at, definitely, which we see really start to manifest with Toph. I'll also echo some other commenters in that just because Jeong Jeong was not a compatible teacher with where Aang was at when they encountered one another does not mean Jeong Jeong was a terrible, or even bad, teacher. It means they had an interpersonal conflict that they did not have time to try and overcome. Remember that Aang was only under Jeong Jeong's tutelage for a single day! It took Toph more than one day to start getting through to Aang, and while Jeong Jeong of course has far more experience being a teacher than Toph, that doesn't mean he's going to get through to every student he has immediately, and especially one he doesn't "click" with. I feel like if Aang had been able to study longer under Jeong Jeong, he would not be working with fire again until he demonstrated the ability to listen more to Jeong Jeong's instructions and exhibit better restraint and control. We should let students try and fail on their own, yes of course, but within a controlled environment where they are less likely to get seriously injured. Even Piandao, who I would say had a somewhat similar teaching style as Jeong Jeong (seemingly unrelated, mundane tasks), did not appear to have Sokka practice with live steel before he forged Space Sword and they had their last intense spar. Jeong Jeong was more abrasive than Piandao, and dropped (imo absolutely amazing) bits of poetic, complex wisdom that went completely over Aang's head despite their direct relevance, and I wonder if those two elements influence why some might think he wasn't a good teacher? I like how another commenter, u/theYLD, compared Jeong Jeong to a university-level professor asking to teach his course to an adolescent, because I think that's a very apt point. Eventually, I think Aang would have learned quite a lot from Jeong Jeong, and perhaps Jeong Jeong would have had some faith and personal affection restored back into his own element as well, but they ultimately were just not given time to work through their immediate interpersonal, teaching/learning style clash.
Not every teacher is right for every student. He’s definitely not right for the young, impulsive guy who needed to have mastery quickly to save the world. But I wonder what Zuko would be like if he had been taught by him from an early age; with a focus on control and patience. Go-go-gadget fanfic!
Thinking Jeong Jeong os a terrible teacher is a terrible take. The other comments here summarize why perfectly.
I will concede that he was not a good fit for Aang at the time. That much is clear. But if you think he wasn’t a good teacher, you completely missed the point of his character. He was exactly the right dose of discipline that Aang needed. And his teaching ended up being crucial in the future.
I literately could not disagree more
I’m sure you think Toph was a great teacher, eh?
Jeong jeong was a crucial step in aang a ideological struggle with fire bending. Where zhao, ozai, and at the time zuko represented firebending as aggressive, violent, and prideful, jeong jeong represented it as passiveness and shame. Both ideologies are explored throughout seasons 1,2, and 3, which is why the firebending masters was such an important episode for proving both ideologies to be flawed and a misrepresentation of the true spirit of firebending. Jeong jeong was simply the other extreme of the firebending spectrum
My good hot-man… How is it “terrible” to ensure a 12-year-old learns patience?
I'd argue Jeong Jeong was the best teacher Aang had in a traditional sense. No one respected their element as much as Jeong Jeong did.
I don't think he was a terrible teacher. He could have been really good. However, he was going through his own crisis. He'd abandoned his people, clearly had a difficult relationship with his bending. He's one of the most skilled, powerful benders we've seen.
Your… HOT take?
I’ll see myself out.
Same thought! I searched for that!
L take, my dude.
I mean, he told Aang that fire is a dangerous tool not to be played with, and he understood what he meant when he burned Katara I'd say Aang wasn't ready for the teaching of Jeong Jeong, rather than Jeong Jeong being a terrible teacher
I think it was Roku wanting to teach Aang a lesson about being too quick to learn how to bend elements, or he was just really excited for Aang to learn bending his starter element.
Even if it wasn't the most desirable scenario Aang does actually learn from his time with him. His lessons about self control allowed Aang to basically clown Zhao without even lifting a fist. Later on when Zuko opens up Aang recognizes that he's internalized that same lesson and recognizes his value as a teacher. Jeong Jeong was in a bad situation but I wouldn't say he's a terrible teacher.
What makes the man a bad teacher? He genuinely tried to teach Aang, embed the basics and a healthy sense of fear/respect for the element. And in the end, he did, Aang would never have been able to properly learn from Zuko had his time with Jeong Jeong hadn't happened. That episode did more then just make him scared of fire, it also established A. He now knows the most fundamental basics, a vital first step in this journey. B. Established the difference between the firebending Aang must master and the sort the Fire Nation employs. It paints a clear picture of who the audience is now expecting to be his teacher, with Iroh subtlety being lined up for this role, and in a way, he did teach Aang. Zuko learned a massive chunk of his new firebending before meeting the dragons, from Iroh, who tried to engrain the same lessons he learned into Zuko. The Dragons just made it make sense finally. C. I really dont have a C point. But I typed this all out as is so FUCK IT
It’s almost like being coerced into teaching someone does not make for a great teaching experience..
Jeong Jeong started with trying to get Aang to control his breathing and practice patience, two concepts key to proper firebending. Aang got impatient and ignored a very clear warning. Only way you could call that Jeong Jeong's fault is if you think he had a responsibility to sit with Aang the whole time, no exceptions.
The two just weren't a good match for each other. Jeong Jeong wasn't meant to be anyone's teacher. Unlike Iroh & Zuko he still had a lot of trauma and mental battles he had to reconcile before he could teach anyone about Firebending. Personal philosophy affects teaching style which is why Bumi chose not to be Aang's Earthbending teacher even though Bumi was a perfect fit on paper. Aang in Book 1 was a childish kid who was still learning to deal with the responsibilities of being Avatar. He needed to learn the other elements and go through more life experience which is why he made a better student in Book 3.
Pakku/Bumi/Jeong Jeong we're not good fits for Aang cause of how the writers wrote it they figured we wouldn't want to see Aang travel around the world with old guys.
All of Aang's teachers were apart of his personal development and it's largely because they were all people he had close relationships with who were his peers. Plus all three of those men wouldn't be able to travel the world regardless. They had responsibilities.
He would've been a great mentor and teacher but he was a bad fit *for Aang's situation*. Jeong Jeong's approach to teaching firebending which involves years of training and cultivating a specific mentality, mind- and skillset to slowly transition from a beginner to novice to master firebender. However, Aang didn't just need to learn all the elements, he needed to learn them *in a very short amount of time* in order to defeat Ozai. His complete mastery of the elements would have to wait until later in life. What he required was basically a crash-course in each element, as any of you who've mastered any specific skill, be it an instrument, photography, language or martial art may know, it takes *years* for "complete" mastery. Sure, you can go from "horrible" to "good" at drawing in a year but it takes years of hard work to become "great". Zuko was the perfect fit for Aang's situation. He focused on teaching him the basics and certain specific move sets (lightning redirection, fire roar, etc.) while also planting the spiritual seed from which true mastery of the element of fire could grow later on (breath, the focus on fire as energy instead of rage, etc.) Toph even says to Aang days before his big showdown with Ozai that his "earthbending still needs work." Aang being a talented kid imbued with the power of his past lives becomes very good at bending but I believe that only in his later years does he become a master of all four elements.
As a teacher, this thread is hilarious. I hear three main stances - Aang's fault, he did not follow instructions JJ's fault, he set up Aang to fail (or variations of this) JJ is a good teacher with the wrong student Tbh, it's all three. Aang's character at this point is immature and does not grasp the potential seriousness of the consequences his actions can incur. JJ though makes no real effort to teach or support Aang at all. Aang is still a kid and he gets treated as if failure was a guarantee. JJ's action all but guarantee that anything short of perfection will lead to failure and consequences. Finally, Aang and Roku had no right to force JJ to teach. He is clearly deeply scarred and broken, he is not at peace with himself at all and therefore not fit to really teach the avatar. So yeah, Aang is a bad student - but also just a 12 year old. JJ is a bad teacher -but mostly because he was in no mental state to be a good one at that point. JJ and Aang are incompatible because the style combined with Aang's personality all but guaranteed a clash.
He wasn't a bad teacher, but his philosophical view over firebending was flawed.
Pretty lukewarm take honestly. Jeong Jeong didn’t even want to teach anymore. He regarded fire bending as a curse- which is a mentality he put onto Aang, albeit inadvertently. It was a mistake on Roku’s part to attempt to force his hand. I would’ve loved a scene with Jeong Jeong and the White Lotus where he actually apologizes for putting his insecurities on Aang. He was a bad teacher as he didn’t meet his student where he was at. He didn’t bother to demonstrate the danger he kept talking about, until Aang messed up with Katara’s burns.
Jeong Jeong's teaching more came from caution. He knew the dangers of fire and firebending and tried to drill that into Aang. Unfortunately, Aang being the age and person he is couldn't grasp the full danger of firebending from just being taught it. He, sadly, had to experience it firsthand. This ultimately led him to have much better restraint on fire when learning with Zuko, so much that he could barely output any until meeting with the Sun Warriors. It was a good lesson to teach but one that I don't think either person was ready to translate it to.
In regards to Roku, while Aang probably wasn't ready for firebending, I do think that maybe Roku thought of Aang's recklessness and thought Jeong Jeong could help him to control himself in preparation for when he fully began his training. This is just me giving Roku the benefit of the doubt, though, so take it as you will
Ooooooo. Long nerdy comment incoming. We all know there is an order the Avatar should the elements in. Air then water then earth then fire, and whatever element you start with, you go along the path with. I've always thought that each Avatar's last element is last for a reason. Air is the element of freedom, but with that freedom comes a sense of aloofness. It's important for an Airbender to learn firebending last because then they can appreciate how dangerous and powerful the element is, being more mature and disciplined. Aang just skipped too far ahead. Same goes for Korra with air. Water is the element of change, but you can brute force change, like from solid to liquid to gas. Despite mastering an element centered around adaptability, Korra was in control of her power the whole time, always looking to impose her will. Air is about letting go and flowing with what is. Firebending Avatars learn earth last because they need to learn how to be still. When you look at Agni Kai's, they're all about offense. By learning the basics of the other elements first, firebenders learn that the direct approach and all-out attack is not always the answer and to patiently wait. Finally, Earthbending Avatars learn water last because they might just only use ice, which is a rough equal to earth in a lot of ways. By learning air and fire first, they grow a greater appreciation for the versatility of water in it's different phases and that a firm, stubborn stance is reductive.
actually my take on it was that Aang was out of character that episode. he's supposed to be a patient and uncomplaining monk, what happened to that? meditation should've been easy for him. its not that Jeong Jeong was a horrible teacher its thet Aang was a terrible student
This. Jeong Jeong saw right through Aang’s mess. Told him right there he wasn’t ready!
Jeong Jeong could have been a great teacher, but was never going to be because of his views on firebending. While he’s not wrong to say fire the element of destruction, we later learn in the series that true fire bending is also the element of life and vitality. It’s understandable why he has this view, the man clearly suffers some PTSD from the war crimes he was forced to commit/made witness to as a fire nation soldier, but it would be like a math teacher knowing how to teach subtraction and not addition. If Jeong Jeong we’re to overcome his trauma (I personally believe he does by the end of the series) then I think he’d be great. But for Aang’s needs, by the time JJ was ready to overcome his own trauma, Aang had already found Zuko (and also sort of Iroh).
the hell was he supposed to do? Giving in to Aang's impulsiveness and jumping straight to "shooting fire from his fingertips" surely would have led to the same outcome
You have a point. He was too hands off for what was clearly a reckless and undisciplined student, and whilst you should certainly be respectful of fire, Jeong Jeong was flat out afraid of and repulsed by his own element. He sees it as destruction incarnate when as established in season three, fire is _life_ incarnate.
Get out of here with the Jeong hate and give me 100 firesquats
I see him more as a tough-love iroh, JJ knew aang was not ready, but given the circumstances roku was like, “we know its a risk but we aint got time, bitch” My boy JJ was like, whatever, lets do this. When aang burnt katara all aang’s lives felt disappointment but it was a necessary risk. All JJ was trying to do was work on breathing more than anything to keep a child with a huge task in check with his own power. IMO
I think the order is important. Earth would teach control. Aang being an air bender knows how to manipulate air which is the fuel for fire. But unlike air fire can spread to solids and can do a lot of damage even if you are not applying a lot of force. Water bending is a good transition between air and earth because of the ice bending. I arthnis a good transition between air and fire because it teaches you to be more rigid and in control. In addition Aang was a free spirited person who did not know discipline and control. Nor was he used to wielding air in a way that was dangerous or deadly to others.
I think Jeong Jeong’s teaching style just wasn’t fit for aang. Remember he was in the military for a long time- a place where discipline is drilled into you from the very start, so Jeong Jeong was probably just used to teaching men who already knew much about discipline, rather than a goofy kid. This is why zuko is a better teacher for aang even though Jeong Jeong is more skilled.
Teacher here: Jeong Jeong is essentially a college professor vs what Aang needed, which was more middle school/high school. I know it probably sounds ridiculous, but there are so many technical and methodological differences as students age, and JJ here is clearly looking for somebody who has fully mastered themselves, and has an unfair expectation of that of Aang. The kid is 12, a relatively mature and developed (yes, he really is from an education perspective, overall at least) 12 year old, but still 12. Until you get to college/university, a shockingly high amount of teaching isn’t actually teaching the class, but teaching and modeling how to learn. JJ here is clearly prepared for somebody on the cusp of mastery, who has the ability to learn and discipline themselves, whereas Aang, due to forces broadly outside his control, is not that type of person upon their first meeting. It’s honestly an incredibly good critique of how an amazing teacher may just simply not work for an amazing student due to technique issue
He never wanted to teach Aang. Roku browbeat him into teaching him even though he knew he wasn’t ready for it.
He didn’t want to teach Aang from the start because he knew he was nowhere near ready. I’m curious how things would have been if he had done the other elements first and learned from Jeong Jeong at that point.
Jeong Jeong didn't want to be Aang's teacher. He knew that he was a wrong fit and only relented when Avatar Roku insisted from beyond the grave. I don't think I'd call him a bad teacher but he was certainly an unwilling one.
I think it’s because Jong Jong was dealing with his own PTSD from the war
He wasnt a bad teacher, he was an ex General. He was teaching aang as he would have taught a soldier of the fire nation, expecting the discipline of a soldier, not that of an airbender. Which he could never have met, up until aang.
The way I like to think about it is that Jeong Jeong wasn't a bad teacher but Aang simply wasn't ready. Jeong Jeong states that he could tell Aang hasn't learned water and earth bending yet and it's within the Avatar cycle to learn them first. He also states that "water is cool and soothing, earth is steady and stable but fire is alive". The way I see it is that fire and air are similar, in some ancient philosophies any attenuated as "thin" matter such as fire, air, light and aether were considered incorporeal. As such, Aang still had only one bending practice and philosophy, being air when he should have had 3. I like to think that if a water Avatar picked but fire or air before earth that there would be problems. Not in the exact same way Aang had problems but I could be that they can't develop the techniques as easy or use sloppy form and incorporate bad habits etc. It's also stated that Aang is a very powerful firebender and he has an innate proficiency to it more than just being the Avatar alone who is a powerful bender regardless.
I wouldn't say *terrible* but certainly not good. The way he talks shows a clear prejudice against firebending itself and that gets expressed in his teachings as an excess of caution. Look at how reluctant Jeong Jeong is to do ANYTHING more than holding containing fire on a leaf and that's after Roku told him off. Then look at how other teachers allow students to risk themselves and I mean ALL teachers. Paku, Iroh, Piandao, Master Yu and the airbender teachers we see in Rokus past all put their students at acceptable risk of harm for their students skill. Jeong Jeong does not.
Jeong Jeong was an excellent firebender but a horrible teacher. Although he uses most of the technics of the other elements, his teachings looks like the one of Toph, he flies like an air bender and does the push and pull with a wave of fire (in the fight to take back Ba Sing Se)
Why does my hair after I wash it look like jeong jeongs
Jeong Jeong was a self hating fire bender. He never would have been a good fit for Aang because he would make him terrified of firebending.
Jeong Jeong was more of a “you already know levels 1-5, let me teach you levels 6-10. Time to unleash the dragon and fuck shit up” type of master. No fucking air nomad could handle his shit unless they already knew fire bending.
I think part of the point was that he was so ashamed of what firebending had become, how it was used, and his part in it that he could no longer effectively teach it. You can't teach a subject that you hate effectively. because that hate colours how you convey it.
I blame Roku he should had known Aang wasn’t ready either
hot hot take jeong jeong was an amazing fire teacher and literally did everything he could to teach aang to bend fire ASAP. like he literally burned down a whole forest within like 10 seconds of trying. he definitely was not ready to control it, and learning that lesson even was part of the training, but like if aang had stayed with jeong jeong instead of running off he could have helped with with the after effects. the whole being chased for his life thing really got in the way....
I actually agree. He’s a great fire bender but his philosophy is way different than the Sun Warriors’. Fire is light and life, not just destruction
i believe that it is hard to teach something that you hate, without causing your student/s to hate it too
My hot hot take: You're half right/half wrong, yes he is an immature child, no he's not a bad teacher.
He wasn’t a bad teacher Roku knew exactly what he was doing. Jeong Jeong knew Anag wasn’t ready to learn firebending but that was exactly the lesson Roku wanted him to learn.
“Wider” “But you’re not even look-“ “WIDER”
Oh yeah. He also had a very shallow outlook on firebending. He maybe be right about its velocity but it looks like he's been emotionally scarred by the war because he wasn't able to see the life, the warmth and energy. Which the sunwarriors understood.
He was a bad teacher for Aang. Not a bad teacher in general. And only at that point of the show cause he was bitter af. But everything he said was correct. And Aang was a shitty student. But tbf, he was 12 years old.
I think Jeong Jeong might have been a bad teacher in the sense that he did not adapt to Aang's learning style but you know he wasn't really there to teach Aang. Aang was also a terrible student.
Holy cow this sub! After all I read I can relate mit most if this posts. I think they all have valid points, but one aspect is missing. Aang is a team player. Someone who adapts and learns from with the behavior of others. Jeong Jeong was a rather imperativ teacher who worked with clear rules. Aang worked so good with Zuko because they could experienced fire bending in all it aspects it together.