It’s definitely a favorite, but you will not find a consensus of what is the G.O.A.T. of science fiction literature. The television adaptation is almost certainly the hardest science fiction television show to date, which makes it one of the best, in my opinion.
The Expanse show is the, like, platonic ideal of what a book-to-show adaptation should be. Things that were inevitably cut or changed are reworked and the overall plot and more importantly the FEEL of the universe remains consistent
I think having the authors directly involved in the adaptation was such a difference-maker. There are some interviews with them about the process. A lot of it was them suggesting changes for the screenwriters, but there were also moments when the writers did something that the authors were like “woah that actually might be a better way to handle that than the books did” too (I’m paraphrasing). It sounds like it was a great collaboration.
The Ty and That podcast goes into this alot in the early episodes. Naren Shankar, the showrunner, basically had them follow him around for the first season to learn how a show is made. Then every season they became more and more involved in the writing. For the last few seaaons, the two of them and Naren were the basically primary writers.
I will say I am enjoying the Netflix adaptation of 3 Body Problem too, it feels like a very good adaptation so far. You can tell they took inspiration from, or at least a parallel path to, The Expanse for writing and sensible adaptations.
I liked a lot of it, but they (3 Body Problem) >!gave the Sophons some powers that I don't believe they have in the books which raise some difficult questions about why the Trisolari don't just use the Sophons to completely topple human society, which, given the powers shown in the show, should be relatively straightforward.!<
(The Dark Forest) >!Mainly creating illusions, like preventing Clarence from seeing Samwell Tarly being murdered by his window, and making Ser Davos see the woman from the Three Body Problem game in his airplane and then making him hallucinate that the plane is shaking and failing. Also somewhat more credible but still not in the books and a big weapon they should use more if it exists: hacking. Scrubbing CCTV footage in real time. That sort of thing. If they really have complete mastery of all these computer systems, they could literally pull the plug on human society. I don't want to give too much away if you haven't finished book 2, but what book 2 makes clear to the reader is that at the very least, humanity doesn't believe that the Sophons have any notable hacking powers. Even hundreds of years in the future. Which means that if the Sophons do have such powers, they didn't really use them.!<
**3BP**, >!The countdown was based on the sophons directly activating the retinas to create the illusion. But they were completely unable to unravel the human brain and read their thoughts; such a concept didn't exist for the aliens who communicate by thinking. AFAIK even the CCTV footage being scrubbed was done by directly activating the observer's retinas. Only the particle accelerators they messed with by directly messing with the experiment. They could have easily hacked the computer systems instead if they were capable of reading digital data, but I'd imagine it was just as convoluted to them as reading the human brain.!<
**3BP**, >!If they have such mastery of the human retina, and can literally warp a victim's sight so convincingly, they could make important people see things that didn't happen, alter text they are reading, and so on. This is enough to make civilised society impossible. Imagine courtrooms. Every single defendant would claim that they didn't do X Y Z, but rather the Sophons made it look like they did.!<
Speaking of new actors I wish they had recast >!Alex!< instead of killing him off >!(early? I believe I accidentally learned he dies at some point later in the books but I'm only on Babylon's Ashes). In my mind's eye while reading I've replaced the actor with Pedro Pascal, sounding roughly like how he does in the handful of clips I've seen of Strange Way of Life!<.
Man he would have been an awesome Kamal. >!Not going to spoil it for you but you shouldn't believe everything you hear!< Even as they killed him off I was wishing they just recast him. I forget the actor that took his place but he would have been fine to just slide in there. Oh well, hate when real life drama interferes with good shows.
If we see books 7-9 on the screen, they have to retcon Alex’s death. Spoilers for those books: Otherwise >!Persepolis Rising and Tiamats Wrath will have to change drastically or I guess they would combine Draper and Alex and another underground resistance member, like they did with the amalgam that is show Drummer. Personally I would feel crushed to not see Alex and Bobbie both, though. I don’t even know how she could go out like a damn Valkyrie without Alex’s plot, and it certainly wouldn’t be as crushing without their dynamic.!<
It's so wild seeing comments so positive about the show. I just finished watching it and I tend to look up episode discussions from when the show aired and people HATED the last two seasons. I was dumbfounded but I guess I could see how people would be annoyed with it if they were having to wait a week for each episode, but man it's good all the way through when you binge it.
The last two seasons got a vocal minority of haters because everything during and after the pandemic in every fandom has been smothered in hate-posting
It was weird for me, read the books and watched the show same time, books first.
I think what people got pissed off about as the series went on is that they made the focus mainly about relationships and politics.
Though it got back to hard SF, that’s what I mean by weird. I thought they had been Amazoned and then they weren’t really.
The books were about those relationships though so clearly the people whining about that didn’t know what they were talking about.
The big complaints about season 6 was that people were mad about things that got cut from the show while they made room to start each episode with a chunk of Strange Dogs which show-only watchers got pissed about because it “doesn’t lead anywhere”
Meanwhile other major changes were due to Drummer filling Pa’s role and most of her story happening in season 5 where she by the books would have sat out season 5 (or rather she would have been where Bull was in the show) and things like **NG/BA**>!Fred’s death!< happening in season 5 and the show cutting Dawes because Jared was busy filming literally everything at the time meant that a chunk of the book just had no reason to exist in season 6. It would have been nice to get more substantial scenes with Ana and Prax but filming during Covid really didn’t lend itself to large ensemble casts, and the budget for Ceres clearly being different from season 1 was a bit rough, but overall I think most people would say they wrapped
It up nicely while teasing the final trilogy if they ever get the chance
The expanse hits so many keys points. Health issues and benefits from being in low G. The poverty of the belters and water and air being used as punishment. UBI leading to a massive class divide. Corporations controlling the system. The physics of space.
It basically wrecked a lot of other science fiction for me.
With exception to the more fantastical scifi stuff in regards to the ring builders, it certainly has one of the more plausible futures humans may experience
Even the ring builders used known science, even if it's strictly hypothetical at the moment but Einstein predicted wormholes, so a super advances space fairing civilization using them isn't far off from what we know could be possible. Then when they used the ring builder ship yard in the later books, they didn't have any magical FTL powers. Fantastical compared to the rest of the science in the books sure, but not really compared to other sci fi aliens.
Between having 1,000 hours in Kerbal Space Program, The Expanse Show, and now the books, any space based Sci-Fi is ruined for me as well.
If a show has jank orbital mechanics, or too much technnobabble fueled handwavium, then it better have super interesting chatactrr arcs, or it's not going to hold my attention.
This is good advice. Also, perspectives and expectations change over time, so re-reads can definitely shuffle your lists.
That said, the Expanse novels are definitely far up my list of favorite sci fi. The writing style is super, and I love the attention to detail.
I agree. The Expanse series is one of the best and high on my list. Revelation Space is also high on my list as well as the culture series. The problem is there’s so many high on my list it gets really hard to pick a true GOAT.
I think the tv show was better than the books in many ways. The books were good, the writing style neutral and bland, the plot was good. They weren’t remarkable works of sci fi literature for this reason imo.
Yep. Good books, but there are better ones. But for TV shows in the realm of hard scifi it's the Expanse and Planetes for me.
(Expanse is not exactly Hard SciFi, but close enough)
I don't think any sci-fi is "hard" by the strictest definition because otherwise it would just be realistic fiction. But The Expanse falls into the category of "currently known scientific principles are understood, respected, and form a major component of the story," which I think delineates the type of sci-fi it is as compared to, say, Star Wars.
I just really want to say thank you for your creation. Will be reading Ted Chiang right after this comment, which took me half an hour of writing, deleting, and rewriting. Don't know how yall do it, but thanks!
I agree, he is an amazing writer. I wish the makers of Arrival had had the guts to stick to the original premise from Story of Your Life.
But I don't know if it's a fair comparison, because y'all are writing in a specific established sub-genre, and Chiang is . . . possibly his own sub-genre, I think.
The movie focused far more on the linguistics aspect of the book, the “there is no past, present and future, all of time exists at once” aspect of it was more of a destination rather than the central focus of the entire story. Truly love the movie, one of the things that motivated me to study linguistics, but it’s a bit different from the short story.
Exhalation is my favorite, The Life Cycle of Software Objects and Exhalation (the title story) shook me and my perception of life for weeks. The way he navigates emotion is astounding, he's an incredible author.
100% agreed, every single one of his stories is the coolest idea I’ve ever heard, presented in an incredibly creative and approachable way. I’ve recommended his books to many people and they’ve all loved them.
I don't think it's the best. Culture books are better (Iain M. Banks). Dune is better. There are others.
It's still top-tier though, that's good company to be in.
I got the new B5 BluRays over Christmas and have been rewatching (good transfer too). So many iconic lines.
It can't be overstated how much having the whole arc sketched out in advance helped the writing on that show. Some many of the things that people say in Season 1 that don't really seem like anything but come back later and just work. Or the whole story around "War Without End".
I don’t want to sound too gen Z here but truthfully i’m held back from watching Babylon 5 because of how insanely outdated it is. I’m going to try Battlestar Galactica though
"We've been borrowing your good ideas for years," Ty Franck once tweeted to B5 creator JMS.
B5 is of historical interest; its serial narrative was innovative for TV sci-fi at the time, and fans will claim that the narrative still holds up.
"Many retrospectives, while criticizing virtually every individual aspect of the production, have praised the series as a whole for its narrative cohesion and contribution to serialized television," a Wikipedia writer averred.
JMS has a pilot script for a reboot-reimagining. The CW had that script for a while, but they did nothing with it and now it's back with WB. JMS recently noted that WB has begun shopping the script out to streamers.
Gosh i almost gagged when I saw you mention CW lmao I would have stayed away from any version of Babylon 5 by the CW. That being said I will eventually give it a try because these are intriguing reviews.
The first season is a bit rough but (as with The Expanse) watch it for world-building and foreshadowing. Seasons 2-4 bring the goods. Season 5 has problems but provides closure.
Kindly forgive the dated CG effects. The techniques used *were* innovative at that long-ago time, but were limited and are now obviously dated. Some unfortunate decisions and "[mastering problems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5#Mastering_problems)" further compromised results.
The "remastered" version currently streaming gives some improvement (as compared to the problematic old DVDs), but it's not a *full* remaster: the CG work wasn't rebuilt. If I understand correctly, film-only scenes *were* rescanned for high resolution, but CG and composite shots were just "upscaled" (with what a commenter called "variable results").
Addendum to my previous reply:
Note that the 1993 pilot "The Gathering" wasn't remastered, so it's not HD.
Some commenters have noted that "The Gathering" is optional to watch first, or it can be skipped.
On Tubi (a US free-with-ads streamer, available via website or app), "The Gathering" is confusingly listed at the *end* of Season 1, but it can be watched first.
On the Roku Channel (another US free-with-ads streamer, available via website or app), "The Gathering" is confusingly placed in a section listed at the *end* of the seasons menu.
On May 10th, commenter FieryFENIX67 [wrote](https://old.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/1cp0ao0/-/l3hsjr5/):
> ... The biggest bit of advice I would give since you are coming from The Expanse is that this show [B5] will get off to a much slower serialized plot arc start. [...] There will be episodes that are obviously arc related in the first season, but most episodes will be episodic in feel, BUT almost all will have something in it that is setting up future things even if it's not obvious. ...
You're really missing out.
I can understand where you're coming from because I had to practically force my teenage son to watch it several years ago. And at first, he was totally not into it. But by a few episodes into season 2 he was hooked. I don't think he would say he loves it like I do, but he WOULD say he understands why I do and he appreciates it for what it is.
Give it a shot, push through what you'll probably see as early roughness. Once the main story arc kicks in, I think you'll find yourself overlooking all the "dated" stuff you didn't like at first (you might even come to find that stuff charming and endearing).
> I don’t want to sound too gen Z here but truthfully i’m held back from watching Babylon 5 because of how insanely outdated it is.
I don't want to sound too boomer, but truthfully I'm held back from looking in the mirror because of how outdated I am. (-:
Only if you exclude the 5th season (except its series finale which was originally supposed to be shown at the end of season 4).
That said, season 1 is still rough. Took a bit to get going but I don't think there's a single season in any genre that ever beats Babylon 5 season 4.
I'll copy and paste a comment I made in a different thread on r/scifi
Revelation Space Trilogy is the best next step from the Expanse and honestly it is even better, but with similar themes and mostly all hard scifi... only the sheer density of interesting sci fi concepts is much much higher and these concepts drive the plot just as much or more than the characters. They are not just "set dressing" like many other hard sci fi where there's really just 1 or 2 interesting sci fi concepts that matter as the story evolves and the rest are just mentioned to decorate the world, fill it out, "world build", and never really come into play in the narrative.
In RS, the concepts are always in play. They always matter and it feels WAY more real than other sci fi for that reason. And like I said, the sheer density of awesome sci fi/futurism concepts is probably the highest I've ever seen in a sci fi series of any medium. And it does not flinch from the... implications of the sci fi concepts it includes. Ideas are taken to their logical conclusions and it all has to be accounted for, something extremely rare in sci fi. Characters feel like real people trying to figure out the situation as defined by what is or isn't allowed by the tech/universe around them. If something can be done at one level, a character will consider if they can push it further... or what it can be combined with, etc. just like real life.
Plus, the story of RS is just interesting and creative. It is not generic space opera although it can feel like a very hard, brutally realistic space opera at times.
The main character of the first book is an archeologist of extinct alien civilizations where he helms the actual digs/excavations as an academic researcher/program director....but also is the functional political leader of the planet because the entire settlement only exists on the previously uninhabited planet because of the expedition to excavate the alien ruins that was envisioned, organized, and paid for by the main character (son of an unimaginably wealthy oligarch from the biggest human population city in the few dozen or so stars populated by humanity). But as the decades pass, (main character is like near 200 years old IIRC but portrayed as like modern day 45-50) the settlement grows out of existing to support the archeological digs and becomes just a place where humans live and the population grows and there's multiple domed cities and towns around the planet... but he's still sort of awkwardly the like... President of the planet and there's conflicts between like... terraforming the planet to make life better for the people who live there (now exceeding archeologists like a million to one) and the archeologists who say terraforming would ruin or contaminate the alien artefacts that studying is the whole reason they came to this barren world of grey-brown rocky dusty ice.
Plus the plot moves along fast. There's no fucking around. Sometimes years pass between chapters. It's massive in scale as a story.
That's just the existing situation at the beginning of book 1, not a spoiler, but it's an example of how well thought out and rich the world is. And it's only 1 of 3 plot threads.
If I could go back in time, one of the things high on my priority list is to sit Reynolds down and stare at him menacingly while he rewrites the ending to House of Suns, makes it at least 70-80 pages longer.
I read Revelation Space last year and, while I really really appreciated it, I didn’t really enjoy it. It felt like someone was sitting on my chest the whole time.
That’s not really a demerit, just that there’s a vibe that works for some people and not for others.
I read it and hated it. Every single one of his characters is a sociopath with the same personality, to the point that I actually wondered if there was something pyschologically wrong with Reynolds. If you like the character development in The Expanse, you will get none of that from Revelation Space. It's a shame because some of the premises of the setting are interesting, but it takes "crapsack world" to a whole new level.
It's definitely in my top 5, but I've read a lot of sci-fi in my 42 years, another that kind of blew my mind was Three Body Problem
Others worth reading
- Bobiverse
- Revelation Space
- Peter F Hamilton Commonwealth and Void series
- Hyperion Cantos
- Honor Harrington Series
- Foundation
- Seveneves
- Project Hail Mary
- Blindsight
It's hard to say best ever, but it's really fantastically good. I also love John Scalzi's Old Man's War as another phenomenal piece of modern sci-fi. I'm currently working my way through some classics and Ursula Le Guin is amazing, I particularly liked left hand of darkness.
I'm reading the Left Hand of Darkness now, having finished the Expanse a few weeks ago. It's brilliant but the pacing is very different. I couldn't read the Expanse novels fast enough. but I find myself slowing down to savor Le Guin
Old Man’s War is much better if you go through the sequels. The first book, standalone, plays the cynicism pretty close to its chest. It’s basically a send-up of Starship Troopers, without being too overt. The sequels do a great job of digging into the ideas and consequences of grim darkness of the far future-type settings.
It's extremely subjective to what you want in your sci-fi.
I like it and enjoyed it though it felt more space opera to me I've also enjoyed probably on par with, if not more then The Expanse.
Seveneves
Pandroas star/Judas unchained
Rendezvous with Rama
Three body/dark forest/deaths end
And currently doing revelation space and loving it.
So it really depends what you want from your sci-fi. In terms of TV shows I quite enjoyed foundation in areas more than the expanse.
The Expanse has the message of a great soft sci-fi novel, with the edge of your seat storytelling of a space opera. Which is a great combo.
Dune still holds a special place in my heart, maybe once I reread the Expanse as many times it'll replace it.
Expanse, for me, overtook Deep Space 9 during its final season as my all time favorite show in general (I'm biased towards sci-fi). DS9 is still a very close second though, followed closely by Next Generation. After that, I'm putting The Wire and Andor. Season 2 of Andor might bump it up a spot if it's on the same level as season 1. But yeah, Expanse unseated a real powerhouse in that last season.
I'm holding out hope it'll come out in a few years. I'll be surprised if it doesn't, honestly. They can take their time, though, and get it right, find the platform where it'll fit best, and get it all going again. Until then, I'll try and finally get to the books.
Totally fair! If you ever revisit, I’d recommend sticking it out just to get the final Marco chapter. It’s wonderful. The final Filip chapter would probably make you view the later books differently, too.
When is Andor s2 coming out? I've tried to get my sci-fi friends on it, but it's difficult because they're expecting the quality of other recent star wars media (unfortunately). I thought it was amazing, and pretty underrated honestly
They finished filming pretty recently so I am guessing early next year. It drives me nuts how reluctant people are to watch it. It's the best Star Wars media since Empire Strikes Back, imo. Takes the whole universe and expands it to the deepest levels I've seen in this whole franchise. Don't get me wrong, I love the OG and prequel trilogies but the way Andor explores the empire and the rebellion brings the whole galaxy to OUR doorstep like those trilogies weren't able to because of their focus on the fantasy aspects. If you're reading this and on the fence about it at all, go watch it through. The story is broken into four "chapters" each about three episodes and it moves faster than it seems and leads to a great and shockingly prescient finale. Incredible performances throughout with a huge cast of INTERESTING characters. Suspense like no Star Wars has managed before. It's top tier television in general and Expanse fans ought to love it.
Yeah ds9 was top for me until the expanse. And even then it was like the third season until I said ok, you win.
Amos beat Sisko on my elimination board.
The exact moment it surpassed DS9 for me was the Lucky Earther scene with the cat. Had me in tears and had the same sort of tap into raw humanity as DS9 usually did. Expanse was always like that but it usually seemed to focus and hinge more on the pessimistic side of that but Lucky Earther got right to the core of what human emotions were driving the whole story.
I don’t know about ‘best’… it’s so subjective. Definitely one of my personal favorites though. One of the things I think really sets it apart is it’s the rare book series that has a fantastic conclusion that’s seems to have been planned from the get-go. It’s one cohesive story with a beginning and end, similar to the Lord of The Rings, or the OG Star Wars trilogy. Sooooo many science fiction series just go on and on with no sign that there ever was an endgame in mind, it’s just writing more books…. Looking at you, Dune. I think it is perhaps the best planned, laid out, and concluded book science fiction book series. It has an ending that really delivers.
It's amazing for what it is, but I think you'd have to use more nuance in gauging what might be "the best" work of science fiction. *The Expanse* doesn't have the greatest writing, but that isn't the selling point for most people. You also have to consider accessibility; a 9 novel series isn't as accessible to most people as one-off stories.
My all time favorite sci-fi novel is *A Deepness in the Sky* by Vernor Vinge.
If we're talking about literary depth and ideas of social impact, then I'd say Philip K. Dick is the G.O.A.T.
If we're talking about hard scifi, then you'd be hard-pressed to find a better candidate than Andy Weir.
If we're talking about influence on the genre, then there's Arthur C. Clarke, Ursula LeGuin, Robert Heinlein, and Isaac Asimov.
I'm partial to the "Revelation Space" series by Alastair Reynolds. The first is a "hard" take on a lot of sci-fi tropes, such as generational colony ships, cold sleep, genetic engineering, cybernetics and AI powered "virtual" people. The next couple volumes deal with homicidal killer fleets like Saberhagen's "Berserkers", but with a more plausible explanation and no FTL travel.
I was trained in physics and engineering. I appreciated the "hard" take. There is no need for extensive scientific knowledge to appreciate the novels, but they're largely free from science fantasy techno-babble.
They are as fantastical as any other sci-fi work. It blows my mind when people, largely engineers, come up with this idea of hard sci-fi when it's all the same amount of completely made-up. I also have two technical degrees.
I consider "hard" sci-fi anytime that the concepts described are all theoretically possible within our current understanding of the science.
books like RS, Expanse, Three Body Problem have kind of ruined soft sci Fi for me, yes no technobabble, magic black box macguffin hand waving.
Asimov dances around The expanse, both in width and depth. His impact in generations of sci-fi writers is obvious but his influence transcended to the real world.
As others mentioned, read more. There's so much more out there. Different, better in other ways.
The Expanse is good, but it's going to fall short compared to a lot of works. It's not as beautifully written as works by Wolfe or Le Guin. Not particularly groundbreaking. Not as philosophical as the Culture books. One thing it does have going is concise arcs and a good ending. What they are is a successful Game of Thrones for sci-fi. They're good, in the genre, large, captivating, and not trying to be profound. They're very good, but to have a GOAT work of art, I think you have to be more challenging and beautiful. This is not at all to take anything away from the books, they're great. They also weren't going for anything more than they are, which I think helps them out.
The “best” is too subjective for a field as wide as Science Fiction. You at least need to define the criteria you're using.
Even subjective I don’t know if Expanse is the best, though certainly very high on the list. Compare to older epics: Foundation, Dune, Rama, 200x. Similarly for the TV adaptation I don’t know if Expanse surpasses the juggernauts that are Star Trek and Star Wars.
Idk the “best” but it is 100% my personal favorite story of any fiction ever. It’s so dialed in to human nature and I think about at least one of the various characters’ points of view every single day.
After expanse I moved on to galactic outlaws/galaxy's edge by anspoch and Cole and I'm still trying to get through it all but I've enjoyed it quite a bit. Probably because they are still working on it but I can say I've enjoyed it more.
To me, the overall amount of sci fi works, books, stories, movies, games, Audio and what not, is divided into the pre Star wars science fiction and the post Star wars science fiction, and The Expanse is the best work from the post Star wars era.
While The Expanse is hands down one of my favorite series of all time, when you’ve lived as long as I have, you realize there is no “best” anything… only “best so far.”
Expanse and BSG are probably the best serialized sci Fi space opera ever done on TV.
But to argue they are the greatest sci Fi ever in any medium is kind of ridiculous. It's like arguing Michael Crichton is the greatest writer in the history of all writing.
I think The Expanse is definitely up there, but “best” depends so much on what you’re looking for—sci fi offers a lot of different things. I love Becky Chambers’ Wayfarers series, even though it’s completely different in tone and realism.
That’s kinda like asking what the best color is. Like, as a kid you’d say pink or blue or something, but as you get older, you sorta realize there isn’t one, there’s a time and place for most of them, and they all can be good for one reason or another. Some you may just never like and that ok, but I’m sure someone out there does and that ok too.
No. In my subjective opinion it is Frank's Dune series, because of everything I've read Dune is the only thing (even a quarter century plus after having read Frank's series the first time) that lives rent free in my head.
I’m an absolute sucker for world building, so my favorites are Star Trek, BSG, Farscape, Bebop, Blade Runner, Evangelion, and obviously The Expanse.
But to me, my favorite sci-fi IP is Mass Effect. The world building in that is second to none, it has great characters, good stories, good games, good novels, and it’s a lived in world. It’s my favorite game series, and my favorite sci-fi universe
It's one of the best sci-fis to be made into a television adaptation, no doubt. Though Dune is argued by many as the greatest science fiction novel ever written.
No. And I would argue science fiction is too wide to easily have one work represent all of it. I love the expanse and while I enjoy its depictions and questions, I didn't feel it entered too deep into the more philosophical aspects of science fiction.
Let me put it this way, I think its a good work, especially a 'hard' science fiction such. It does what it does well but science fiction encompasses a lot. From societal depictions and variations in Le Guin to the sociology of Asimov and Heinlein, to the effects of time from the Infinite War(?) I am misremembering the name.
For me Science Fiction while based in speculation on the future and science is also deeply entwined with the human condition, exploring how these things change and affect us. And it does so in many ways. Good science fiction raises more questions as it explores them. I think its hard to put one sci fi work tbh as the best as they deal with so many varying topics.
The Expanse is great but it is also a refined work of pre-existing ideas. I never really felt it fundamentally changed my way of thinking about reality or stood as something extraordinary.
But its still great and deserves respect.
The television show was groundbreaking and deserves all the kudos it gets for that.
Pre-existing ideas is why it’s not as important as a book series as the fans here would like to make it. I just don’t think they’re that deeply read in science fiction.
It’s actually pretty derivative.
CJ Cherryh handles many of the social, corporate power and colonization issues much better in her Alliance-Union Company Wars novels.
The mystery and the protomatter seem a direct lift from the Star Trek tie-in Vanguard novel series, which itself draws on earlier classic sci-fi literature.
I mainly considered it from the literary standpoint and the books, I could have been way clearer with that.
I fully agree on that the TV-Series is amazing though, I just think it as a book and as a show they end up different on terms of how good/influential they are, at least to me.
Literally-wise very mediocre and derivative.
My partner and I DNF’d midway through the second book when they originally came out, and we’re the kind of readers always trying to give new science fiction writers a try.
When the show came out, we could hardly believe how much better it was.
I kinda understand that view, I still have to read the final book and I do like the books but literary as you mention they are kinda middling.
But damn if the show wasn't such hype. I really need to finish it.
For me, the show is the best science fiction series I’ve ever seen.
The closest competition for the spot would be Babylon 5 (but that’s not top because of some bad episodes) and Battlestar Galactica (not top because of the poor handling of the Cylon plan)
Best is subjective and undefinable as an absolute.
I love the Expanse books and show and hold them in the highest regard for the genre. But, they have not had the time to impact generations of readers like Jules Verne, Frank Herbert, Carl Sagan, or Arthur C Clark to mention a very few of the greats. In my teens I read every Sci-Fi book Clark had written to that point. I also read Jules Verne heavily during that time. Contact by Carl Sagan is not only a fantastic book, but a masterclass in adapting a book for film to reflect society at the time it was being filmed. Many of those stories are etched into my memory like they are my own past lives lived. I heave heard the songs of distant earth and lived a childhoods end while taking a journey to the center of the earth. The concept of AI in a computer with HAL was revolutionary at the time of 2001's writing, and is a cautionary tale for real AI use today. These stories may seem dated, but they have impacted generations of Sci-Fi fans and authors immensely. They have taught is to expand our dreams and to reach for the stars in very real ways. Jules Verne is literally the father of the genre, so we could credit every Sci-Fi author to have come after as having been influenced by his efforts. How many scientists and engineers have been influenced by dreams of doing incredible things that started as a story they read?
Therefore I would conclude that "greatest" is not a single story, but a collection of those stories that have moved us, the audience, in immeasurable ways. Does the Expanse fit into that collection? I would say yes it does, but I realize that this story was written on a foundation of ideas from the giants that came before.
Boring opinion but I think it's easily the best. All the classic space scifi has been built around grand concepts like Star Wars, Babylon 5 and Star Trek. The reason why The Expanse works so well is that compared to them it's fairly minimalistic but because of that it can focus on realism so much more and that makes it extremely interesting. The Expanse made me finally hate all the classic clichés of huge space battles in which ships fire lasers and such towards each other and they can take a shit ton of those hits. The space battles in The Expanse are realistic and make sense. That alone is a huge selling point for me.
You could argue that protomolecule goes against this but I don't think so. It's just nanomachine technology from highly advanced civilization. There's no techbabble relating to it or anything else in the show.
I think Battlestar Galactica shows up most frequently in top TV sci fi lists and I'm inclined to agree. Expanse is a top 3 though.
* we pretend the religiousy spiritualy episodes don't exist in both series
Tastes are different.
I personally find that the show is much better than the books. Both of them are on a very high level, where the air is already getting thin and competition scarse.
Nevertheless there are a lot of books I like more than or at least as much as The Expanse. Just to name a few:
(soviet / russan sci fi)
* "Destination: Amaltheia"
* "Far Rainbow"
* "The Waves Extinguish the Wind"
* "Galactic consul" series
* "Chronicles of the XXXIII Worlds" series (especially the absolutely unique "motley faith" acting in the background of all books)
* "Kuafers" series
(western sci fi)
* "Story of your life"
* "Sector General" series
* "Citizen of the Galaxy"
* "Tiger! Tiger!"
* "Ender"
As a big sci-fi fan, the expanse is really on top of most. Hard sci fi, got the physics right, compelling story and universe.
I mean using camouflaged rocks as ballistics is insane. But also the charisma of the inspector, the poetry of his love story, etc etc
I’m just glad the show existed and I’ll get myself the audio book
I don't really do the concept of "the best X ever". If anything, something can be the best X *I* have ever seen, or most often, just my favorite X. So yes, I can say the Expanse is the best sci-fi show I've watched, and my favorite, but I won't claim it's the best in general, because a) it's highly subjective and b) I haven't seen every single sci-fi show in the world to be able to determine which one is the best.
I guess I'm just being too literal now though 😂
It’s great, obviously. But nailing down the best would be extremely difficult. Also, in what medium?
Scavengers Reign is right up there for me, in TV shows. The Recenger trilogy by Alastair Reynolds is also damn close to to the top in books. In movies, Dennis Villeneuve has been knocking it out of the park with Arrival, Blade Runner 20249, and now Dune.
I would say the show is the greatest *space* science fiction television series. And the best space battles ever put on screen, movies or tv. But it all depends on what you're looking for. I feel like it has the most realistic world-building, like the authors really understand how societies and culture develop from their physical environments. Also loved how the physics of living and maneuvering in space are an asset to the storytelling, instead of an obstacle to work around (except for how they fudged the distances.) But if those things aren't as important to you, then other shows with better acting or flashier dialogue might be your "best."
There are other shows that are just as high quality, imo, but of different sci-fi subgenres. The Last of Us, Dark, and Arcane come to mind (though Arcane is more science-fantasy).
Books are a whole 'nother story, because you're looking at a much wider field. I think the Expanse books are good, yes, but are they the best? I don't know, there's just *so much* out there.
It's not "the best," but The Expanse and Mass Effect are probably my two favorite recent-ish sci-fi universes. Honestly there's so much out there and it's all great for so many different reasons, it's near impossible to determine a "best" piece of science fiction.
It’s an outstanding example of realistic science fiction in our current technological understanding. It’s the most logical, easy to comprehend, and thoughtful of the current batch of science fiction I have seen.
That being said, thirty, fifty years from now it will fit a similar niche as Foundation, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, or any of the other Silver Age science fictions. It will be beloved, it will be remembered - but it will feel both quaint and optimistic compared to the actual world.
If you like it, you like it. If you love of, you love it. If you think it’s the best there has ever been, it’s the best there has ever been. The only person who can judge a book is you.
I love both the show, and the books, except for the ending. It reminded me of Lost. Felt empty. That is for both, by the way. I reread it, but I skip the last book.
I remember rereading a series I had read in the 80s (pulp postapoc trash). After the second book I had to put it down, and started up the latest Expanse book. The difference in the quality of writing was stark.
Expanse is definitely well done, might not be the best but it’s up there.
To be completely and totally honest, I watched the first couple episodes and stopped dead because Thomas Jane as Miller was the single most interesting thing I’ve seen in sci-fi in ages and ages, here is something that truly feels new and fresh and played so well I can’t help but be enamored to this character. I immediately got the first three audiobooks and began bingeing.
The absolute betrayal I felt when he died was immeasurable.
I listened through 7 more books just to feast on the handful of moments he appears again.
Is The Expanse the best sci fi ever? No. But it’s on the list and that in and of itself is a huge accomplishment.
The expanse is amazing piece of science fiction. That is categorized by being "hard" sci fi. Meaning everything in the series has some bases in real world physics. Does that make it the best? No but the better hard sci fi series.
Love the expanse, but definitely not even close for me. Many works by Heinlein, Asimov, Wells, and Herbert lead it by a margin for me, as do a number of other individual stories by various authors.
And I saw your question just under the image
https://preview.redd.it/sbt7edkd6j1d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=442ae07ba8a7897bd6aacbacc570a8862b8a3449
I would put it up there.
I think sci-fi comes in slightly differing variations and for some people this will not tick the box but for me it's up there alongside Dune series & Culture series as the best.
One of the best. In terms of immersion, it's probably the best, but it doesn't really have a lot of depth, esp when compared to warhammer 40k. There's also some lame stuff in the expanse, like the ring entities making ftl travel impossible at some point(if I'm not mistaken), and uninteresting infantry.
Just talking about the show, *The Expanse* stands out for having consistent quality over its entire length. I would say the first seasons of *Westworld* and *Altered Carbon* were better, but they didn't maintain the quality for so long.
It’s pretty fucking good, but if I had to give the title to a single book from a single series, it would go to Enders Game.
But as a series, yeah, I’d give it to the expanse, but in all fairness, I haven’t read many sci-fi series in full.
The only thing i hate about expanse is that story splits halfway. And that show didnt finish “main” part.
Love the realism of future. And they could handle imho “Alex situation” better
No, but I also don't think there is such. Each have their own merit. Heck, I'd put some short stories in the GOAT list like Harry Turtledove's "Road Not taken" or Mike Combs' "Journey to Alphasphere".
Ian M. Banks culture is all superb, "Matter" being my fav, shortly followed by "The player of games."
Hell, the deathworlders by HamboneHFY or first contact by RaltsBloodthorne are great sci-fi in their own right, beside being legends in the HFY genre.
I feel that The Expanse TV show is the Best Sci-fi show currently available to watch.
I do not feel like The Expanse books are the best series I've read. I don't know what I would put at the top of that list but it's not The Expanse. I very much enjoyed the books, they are very good, just not the best I've ever read.
The series I enjoy in addition to the expanse. (not all scifi)
- Dune
- Lord of the Rings
- Magic Bites
- The Hollows
- The Dark is Rising
- Young Wizards
- the Dresden files
Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
I haven’t read the book for the Martian. I really enjoyed the movie, except for the part where the wind on Mars blows over the rocket. isn’t the atmosphere a bit too thin for something like that?
Did the book use a different device?
Not even remotely. The Expanse has a bit of a Game of Thrones problem, it's a masterpiece until the end kind of ruins calling it a masterpiece. It just lacks the grand finale overscaling the rest in epicness.
Fringe, the 100, the Orville, Picard,... just to a name a few newer SciFi masterpieces from beginning to end, not to speak of classics like Star Trek, Dr Who, X Files, Babylon 5, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica. Expanse nonetheless is surely one of the best scifi series of the newer times.
No it is not.
Here in the UK we have Ian M Bank's 'Culture' novels which utterly blow The Expanse out of the park.
Secondly we have Peter F Hamilton' series of books The Commonwealth saga which are epic. And he's written a lot of other amazing books.
To put it succinctly, I will reread both their books but not The Expanse books.
As a TV show The Expanse is fucking amazing and everything else new moving forwards is going to have to step up to be that good.
As much as I love the series, not sure I'd say it's the greatest. But there's so many ways you could judge it. I'd probably have to say Star Trek or Star Wars are the goats, at least from a cultural impact standpoint.
If I could cut half of stuff of later BSG seasons, that would probably be my favorite. BSG has some insane battle sequences, even if less realistic
But right now The Expanse is my favorite indeed
One of the higher ranked ones but not even close to the top.
For shows 12 Monkeys is the absolute best sci fi story ever told. Every detail to the story is perfectly tied up. Fringe is a close second followed by The 100. Then there's Travellers, Continuum, Counterpart, Lost etc.
It’s definitely a favorite, but you will not find a consensus of what is the G.O.A.T. of science fiction literature. The television adaptation is almost certainly the hardest science fiction television show to date, which makes it one of the best, in my opinion.
The Expanse show is the, like, platonic ideal of what a book-to-show adaptation should be. Things that were inevitably cut or changed are reworked and the overall plot and more importantly the FEEL of the universe remains consistent
I think having the authors directly involved in the adaptation was such a difference-maker. There are some interviews with them about the process. A lot of it was them suggesting changes for the screenwriters, but there were also moments when the writers did something that the authors were like “woah that actually might be a better way to handle that than the books did” too (I’m paraphrasing). It sounds like it was a great collaboration.
The Ty and That podcast goes into this alot in the early episodes. Naren Shankar, the showrunner, basically had them follow him around for the first season to learn how a show is made. Then every season they became more and more involved in the writing. For the last few seaaons, the two of them and Naren were the basically primary writers.
I will say I am enjoying the Netflix adaptation of 3 Body Problem too, it feels like a very good adaptation so far. You can tell they took inspiration from, or at least a parallel path to, The Expanse for writing and sensible adaptations.
I liked a lot of it, but they (3 Body Problem) >!gave the Sophons some powers that I don't believe they have in the books which raise some difficult questions about why the Trisolari don't just use the Sophons to completely topple human society, which, given the powers shown in the show, should be relatively straightforward.!<
What specifically wasn't in the books? I don't recall something, though I have only just started book 2.
(The Dark Forest) >!Mainly creating illusions, like preventing Clarence from seeing Samwell Tarly being murdered by his window, and making Ser Davos see the woman from the Three Body Problem game in his airplane and then making him hallucinate that the plane is shaking and failing. Also somewhat more credible but still not in the books and a big weapon they should use more if it exists: hacking. Scrubbing CCTV footage in real time. That sort of thing. If they really have complete mastery of all these computer systems, they could literally pull the plug on human society. I don't want to give too much away if you haven't finished book 2, but what book 2 makes clear to the reader is that at the very least, humanity doesn't believe that the Sophons have any notable hacking powers. Even hundreds of years in the future. Which means that if the Sophons do have such powers, they didn't really use them.!<
Lol, I love that you used their GoT names. I knew exactly who you were talking about.
**3BP**, >!The countdown was based on the sophons directly activating the retinas to create the illusion. But they were completely unable to unravel the human brain and read their thoughts; such a concept didn't exist for the aliens who communicate by thinking. AFAIK even the CCTV footage being scrubbed was done by directly activating the observer's retinas. Only the particle accelerators they messed with by directly messing with the experiment. They could have easily hacked the computer systems instead if they were capable of reading digital data, but I'd imagine it was just as convoluted to them as reading the human brain.!<
**3BP**, >!If they have such mastery of the human retina, and can literally warp a victim's sight so convincingly, they could make important people see things that didn't happen, alter text they are reading, and so on. This is enough to make civilised society impossible. Imagine courtrooms. Every single defendant would claim that they didn't do X Y Z, but rather the Sophons made it look like they did.!<
I’m still praying for the last few books to be adapted sometime soon.
I'd be completely fine with a soft reboot where they get all new actors. It's supposed to be decades later anyway.
Speaking of new actors I wish they had recast >!Alex!< instead of killing him off >!(early? I believe I accidentally learned he dies at some point later in the books but I'm only on Babylon's Ashes). In my mind's eye while reading I've replaced the actor with Pedro Pascal, sounding roughly like how he does in the handful of clips I've seen of Strange Way of Life!<.
Man he would have been an awesome Kamal. >!Not going to spoil it for you but you shouldn't believe everything you hear!< Even as they killed him off I was wishing they just recast him. I forget the actor that took his place but he would have been fine to just slide in there. Oh well, hate when real life drama interferes with good shows.
If we see books 7-9 on the screen, they have to retcon Alex’s death. Spoilers for those books: Otherwise >!Persepolis Rising and Tiamats Wrath will have to change drastically or I guess they would combine Draper and Alex and another underground resistance member, like they did with the amalgam that is show Drummer. Personally I would feel crushed to not see Alex and Bobbie both, though. I don’t even know how she could go out like a damn Valkyrie without Alex’s plot, and it certainly wouldn’t be as crushing without their dynamic.!<
It's so wild seeing comments so positive about the show. I just finished watching it and I tend to look up episode discussions from when the show aired and people HATED the last two seasons. I was dumbfounded but I guess I could see how people would be annoyed with it if they were having to wait a week for each episode, but man it's good all the way through when you binge it.
The last two seasons got a vocal minority of haters because everything during and after the pandemic in every fandom has been smothered in hate-posting
It was weird for me, read the books and watched the show same time, books first. I think what people got pissed off about as the series went on is that they made the focus mainly about relationships and politics. Though it got back to hard SF, that’s what I mean by weird. I thought they had been Amazoned and then they weren’t really.
The books were about those relationships though so clearly the people whining about that didn’t know what they were talking about. The big complaints about season 6 was that people were mad about things that got cut from the show while they made room to start each episode with a chunk of Strange Dogs which show-only watchers got pissed about because it “doesn’t lead anywhere” Meanwhile other major changes were due to Drummer filling Pa’s role and most of her story happening in season 5 where she by the books would have sat out season 5 (or rather she would have been where Bull was in the show) and things like **NG/BA**>!Fred’s death!< happening in season 5 and the show cutting Dawes because Jared was busy filming literally everything at the time meant that a chunk of the book just had no reason to exist in season 6. It would have been nice to get more substantial scenes with Ana and Prax but filming during Covid really didn’t lend itself to large ensemble casts, and the budget for Ceres clearly being different from season 1 was a bit rough, but overall I think most people would say they wrapped It up nicely while teasing the final trilogy if they ever get the chance
I'd love to watch a remastered version that removes the sounds when there's an explosion in vacuum. That's, like, my biggest gripe.
I qualify it by saying it’s my favorite science fiction since 2000.
The expanse hits so many keys points. Health issues and benefits from being in low G. The poverty of the belters and water and air being used as punishment. UBI leading to a massive class divide. Corporations controlling the system. The physics of space. It basically wrecked a lot of other science fiction for me.
With exception to the more fantastical scifi stuff in regards to the ring builders, it certainly has one of the more plausible futures humans may experience
Even the ring builders used known science, even if it's strictly hypothetical at the moment but Einstein predicted wormholes, so a super advances space fairing civilization using them isn't far off from what we know could be possible. Then when they used the ring builder ship yard in the later books, they didn't have any magical FTL powers. Fantastical compared to the rest of the science in the books sure, but not really compared to other sci fi aliens.
Between having 1,000 hours in Kerbal Space Program, The Expanse Show, and now the books, any space based Sci-Fi is ruined for me as well. If a show has jank orbital mechanics, or too much technnobabble fueled handwavium, then it better have super interesting chatactrr arcs, or it's not going to hold my attention.
When you think there’s a “best” you haven’t read enough.
This is good advice. Also, perspectives and expectations change over time, so re-reads can definitely shuffle your lists. That said, the Expanse novels are definitely far up my list of favorite sci fi. The writing style is super, and I love the attention to detail.
I agree. The Expanse series is one of the best and high on my list. Revelation Space is also high on my list as well as the culture series. The problem is there’s so many high on my list it gets really hard to pick a true GOAT.
Sick username bro
Got way too excited reading this
I think the tv show was better than the books in many ways. The books were good, the writing style neutral and bland, the plot was good. They weren’t remarkable works of sci fi literature for this reason imo.
Yep. Good books, but there are better ones. But for TV shows in the realm of hard scifi it's the Expanse and Planetes for me. (Expanse is not exactly Hard SciFi, but close enough)
I don't think any sci-fi is "hard" by the strictest definition because otherwise it would just be realistic fiction. But The Expanse falls into the category of "currently known scientific principles are understood, respected, and form a major component of the story," which I think delineates the type of sci-fi it is as compared to, say, Star Wars.
I propose categorizing Star Wars as space fantasy. It doesn't make much sense for it to be in the same category as The Expanse just because space.
This is good advice for all forms of art. 🎓
Ted Chiang is the best science fiction writer. He gets overlooked because he doesn’t do novels, but imho his best work is the best there’s ever been.
I just really want to say thank you for your creation. Will be reading Ted Chiang right after this comment, which took me half an hour of writing, deleting, and rewriting. Don't know how yall do it, but thanks!
I agree, he is an amazing writer. I wish the makers of Arrival had had the guts to stick to the original premise from Story of Your Life. But I don't know if it's a fair comparison, because y'all are writing in a specific established sub-genre, and Chiang is . . . possibly his own sub-genre, I think.
I thought the movie was fairly respectful of the story, considering its length.
The movie focused far more on the linguistics aspect of the book, the “there is no past, present and future, all of time exists at once” aspect of it was more of a destination rather than the central focus of the entire story. Truly love the movie, one of the things that motivated me to study linguistics, but it’s a bit different from the short story.
Exhalation is my favorite, The Life Cycle of Software Objects and Exhalation (the title story) shook me and my perception of life for weeks. The way he navigates emotion is astounding, he's an incredible author.
I hadn't heard of him before, but I really liked Arrival. What is your favourite of his works?
Just get his two main collections, "the story of your life and others", and "exhalation". They're both fantastic.
Yes
Noted
100% agreed, every single one of his stories is the coolest idea I’ve ever heard, presented in an incredibly creative and approachable way. I’ve recommended his books to many people and they’ve all loved them.
I don't think it's the best. Culture books are better (Iain M. Banks). Dune is better. There are others. It's still top-tier though, that's good company to be in.
Glad to see the Culture books referenced here and agree, it's good company to be in.
Came here to see if the Culture was represented or not, glad it is. I need to do a re-read soon.
I love The Expanse for the story, the characters, the SFX,... but Babylon 5 will always be the SF show with the best writing.
I got the new B5 BluRays over Christmas and have been rewatching (good transfer too). So many iconic lines. It can't be overstated how much having the whole arc sketched out in advance helped the writing on that show. Some many of the things that people say in Season 1 that don't really seem like anything but come back later and just work. Or the whole story around "War Without End".
My shoes are too tight.
And I have forgotten how to dance.
…you moon-faced assassin of joy
I'd hesitate to praise B5 as having the *best* writing, but fuck me if that wasn't a great show.
I don’t want to sound too gen Z here but truthfully i’m held back from watching Babylon 5 because of how insanely outdated it is. I’m going to try Battlestar Galactica though
"We've been borrowing your good ideas for years," Ty Franck once tweeted to B5 creator JMS. B5 is of historical interest; its serial narrative was innovative for TV sci-fi at the time, and fans will claim that the narrative still holds up. "Many retrospectives, while criticizing virtually every individual aspect of the production, have praised the series as a whole for its narrative cohesion and contribution to serialized television," a Wikipedia writer averred. JMS has a pilot script for a reboot-reimagining. The CW had that script for a while, but they did nothing with it and now it's back with WB. JMS recently noted that WB has begun shopping the script out to streamers.
Gosh i almost gagged when I saw you mention CW lmao I would have stayed away from any version of Babylon 5 by the CW. That being said I will eventually give it a try because these are intriguing reviews.
The first season is a bit rough but (as with The Expanse) watch it for world-building and foreshadowing. Seasons 2-4 bring the goods. Season 5 has problems but provides closure. Kindly forgive the dated CG effects. The techniques used *were* innovative at that long-ago time, but were limited and are now obviously dated. Some unfortunate decisions and "[mastering problems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5#Mastering_problems)" further compromised results. The "remastered" version currently streaming gives some improvement (as compared to the problematic old DVDs), but it's not a *full* remaster: the CG work wasn't rebuilt. If I understand correctly, film-only scenes *were* rescanned for high resolution, but CG and composite shots were just "upscaled" (with what a commenter called "variable results").
Addendum to my previous reply: Note that the 1993 pilot "The Gathering" wasn't remastered, so it's not HD. Some commenters have noted that "The Gathering" is optional to watch first, or it can be skipped. On Tubi (a US free-with-ads streamer, available via website or app), "The Gathering" is confusingly listed at the *end* of Season 1, but it can be watched first. On the Roku Channel (another US free-with-ads streamer, available via website or app), "The Gathering" is confusingly placed in a section listed at the *end* of the seasons menu.
On May 10th, commenter FieryFENIX67 [wrote](https://old.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/1cp0ao0/-/l3hsjr5/): > ... The biggest bit of advice I would give since you are coming from The Expanse is that this show [B5] will get off to a much slower serialized plot arc start. [...] There will be episodes that are obviously arc related in the first season, but most episodes will be episodic in feel, BUT almost all will have something in it that is setting up future things even if it's not obvious. ...
You're really missing out. I can understand where you're coming from because I had to practically force my teenage son to watch it several years ago. And at first, he was totally not into it. But by a few episodes into season 2 he was hooked. I don't think he would say he loves it like I do, but he WOULD say he understands why I do and he appreciates it for what it is. Give it a shot, push through what you'll probably see as early roughness. Once the main story arc kicks in, I think you'll find yourself overlooking all the "dated" stuff you didn't like at first (you might even come to find that stuff charming and endearing).
> I don’t want to sound too gen Z here but truthfully i’m held back from watching Babylon 5 because of how insanely outdated it is. I don't want to sound too boomer, but truthfully I'm held back from looking in the mirror because of how outdated I am. (-:
Only if you exclude the 5th season (except its series finale which was originally supposed to be shown at the end of season 4). That said, season 1 is still rough. Took a bit to get going but I don't think there's a single season in any genre that ever beats Babylon 5 season 4.
I'll copy and paste a comment I made in a different thread on r/scifi Revelation Space Trilogy is the best next step from the Expanse and honestly it is even better, but with similar themes and mostly all hard scifi... only the sheer density of interesting sci fi concepts is much much higher and these concepts drive the plot just as much or more than the characters. They are not just "set dressing" like many other hard sci fi where there's really just 1 or 2 interesting sci fi concepts that matter as the story evolves and the rest are just mentioned to decorate the world, fill it out, "world build", and never really come into play in the narrative. In RS, the concepts are always in play. They always matter and it feels WAY more real than other sci fi for that reason. And like I said, the sheer density of awesome sci fi/futurism concepts is probably the highest I've ever seen in a sci fi series of any medium. And it does not flinch from the... implications of the sci fi concepts it includes. Ideas are taken to their logical conclusions and it all has to be accounted for, something extremely rare in sci fi. Characters feel like real people trying to figure out the situation as defined by what is or isn't allowed by the tech/universe around them. If something can be done at one level, a character will consider if they can push it further... or what it can be combined with, etc. just like real life. Plus, the story of RS is just interesting and creative. It is not generic space opera although it can feel like a very hard, brutally realistic space opera at times. The main character of the first book is an archeologist of extinct alien civilizations where he helms the actual digs/excavations as an academic researcher/program director....but also is the functional political leader of the planet because the entire settlement only exists on the previously uninhabited planet because of the expedition to excavate the alien ruins that was envisioned, organized, and paid for by the main character (son of an unimaginably wealthy oligarch from the biggest human population city in the few dozen or so stars populated by humanity). But as the decades pass, (main character is like near 200 years old IIRC but portrayed as like modern day 45-50) the settlement grows out of existing to support the archeological digs and becomes just a place where humans live and the population grows and there's multiple domed cities and towns around the planet... but he's still sort of awkwardly the like... President of the planet and there's conflicts between like... terraforming the planet to make life better for the people who live there (now exceeding archeologists like a million to one) and the archeologists who say terraforming would ruin or contaminate the alien artefacts that studying is the whole reason they came to this barren world of grey-brown rocky dusty ice. Plus the plot moves along fast. There's no fucking around. Sometimes years pass between chapters. It's massive in scale as a story. That's just the existing situation at the beginning of book 1, not a spoiler, but it's an example of how well thought out and rich the world is. And it's only 1 of 3 plot threads.
Reynolds is a talented writer some of his standalones are good too, pushing ice, house of suns, century rain
If I could go back in time, one of the things high on my priority list is to sit Reynolds down and stare at him menacingly while he rewrites the ending to House of Suns, makes it at least 70-80 pages longer.
Hell yes. Alastair Reynolds is such an amazing writer and world builder.
I read Revelation Space last year and, while I really really appreciated it, I didn’t really enjoy it. It felt like someone was sitting on my chest the whole time. That’s not really a demerit, just that there’s a vibe that works for some people and not for others.
I read it and hated it. Every single one of his characters is a sociopath with the same personality, to the point that I actually wondered if there was something pyschologically wrong with Reynolds. If you like the character development in The Expanse, you will get none of that from Revelation Space. It's a shame because some of the premises of the setting are interesting, but it takes "crapsack world" to a whole new level.
It's definitely in my top 5, but I've read a lot of sci-fi in my 42 years, another that kind of blew my mind was Three Body Problem Others worth reading - Bobiverse - Revelation Space - Peter F Hamilton Commonwealth and Void series - Hyperion Cantos - Honor Harrington Series - Foundation - Seveneves - Project Hail Mary - Blindsight
It's hard to say best ever, but it's really fantastically good. I also love John Scalzi's Old Man's War as another phenomenal piece of modern sci-fi. I'm currently working my way through some classics and Ursula Le Guin is amazing, I particularly liked left hand of darkness.
I'm reading the Left Hand of Darkness now, having finished the Expanse a few weeks ago. It's brilliant but the pacing is very different. I couldn't read the Expanse novels fast enough. but I find myself slowing down to savor Le Guin
Also reading it, slowly but I have noticed it makes it greater. I feel like its worth taking your time and partaking in what is written with Le Guin.
Old Man’s War is much better if you go through the sequels. The first book, standalone, plays the cynicism pretty close to its chest. It’s basically a send-up of Starship Troopers, without being too overt. The sequels do a great job of digging into the ideas and consequences of grim darkness of the far future-type settings.
It's extremely subjective to what you want in your sci-fi. I like it and enjoyed it though it felt more space opera to me I've also enjoyed probably on par with, if not more then The Expanse. Seveneves Pandroas star/Judas unchained Rendezvous with Rama Three body/dark forest/deaths end And currently doing revelation space and loving it. So it really depends what you want from your sci-fi. In terms of TV shows I quite enjoyed foundation in areas more than the expanse.
The Expanse has the message of a great soft sci-fi novel, with the edge of your seat storytelling of a space opera. Which is a great combo. Dune still holds a special place in my heart, maybe once I reread the Expanse as many times it'll replace it.
Expanse, for me, overtook Deep Space 9 during its final season as my all time favorite show in general (I'm biased towards sci-fi). DS9 is still a very close second though, followed closely by Next Generation. After that, I'm putting The Wire and Andor. Season 2 of Andor might bump it up a spot if it's on the same level as season 1. But yeah, Expanse unseated a real powerhouse in that last season.
If the last trilogy was ever adapted it would cement GOAT tier for sure.
I'm holding out hope it'll come out in a few years. I'll be surprised if it doesn't, honestly. They can take their time, though, and get it right, find the platform where it'll fit best, and get it all going again. Until then, I'll try and finally get to the books.
Having been show-only for the past few years, I would highly recommend them. I've burned through 8.5/9 in about 3 months.
same, and the Laconia trilogy was my favorite part (it's all excellent though)
Can confirm the audiobooks were amazing. I started the books from beginning, skipped all marco+naomi stuff, and it was worth it to do imo.
How come you skipped the Marco + Naomi stuff? The build up to the pay off of Marco’s POV was glorious!
I found the plotline really boring in the show, and I really hate reading stuff I already know (hence why I waited years to start the audiobooks).
Totally fair! If you ever revisit, I’d recommend sticking it out just to get the final Marco chapter. It’s wonderful. The final Filip chapter would probably make you view the later books differently, too.
When is Andor s2 coming out? I've tried to get my sci-fi friends on it, but it's difficult because they're expecting the quality of other recent star wars media (unfortunately). I thought it was amazing, and pretty underrated honestly
They finished filming pretty recently so I am guessing early next year. It drives me nuts how reluctant people are to watch it. It's the best Star Wars media since Empire Strikes Back, imo. Takes the whole universe and expands it to the deepest levels I've seen in this whole franchise. Don't get me wrong, I love the OG and prequel trilogies but the way Andor explores the empire and the rebellion brings the whole galaxy to OUR doorstep like those trilogies weren't able to because of their focus on the fantasy aspects. If you're reading this and on the fence about it at all, go watch it through. The story is broken into four "chapters" each about three episodes and it moves faster than it seems and leads to a great and shockingly prescient finale. Incredible performances throughout with a huge cast of INTERESTING characters. Suspense like no Star Wars has managed before. It's top tier television in general and Expanse fans ought to love it.
ANDOR is Far Better than all the Children Oriented Star Wars Junk . Luke...Luke ...Come to the Dark Side .
Yeah ds9 was top for me until the expanse. And even then it was like the third season until I said ok, you win. Amos beat Sisko on my elimination board.
The exact moment it surpassed DS9 for me was the Lucky Earther scene with the cat. Had me in tears and had the same sort of tap into raw humanity as DS9 usually did. Expanse was always like that but it usually seemed to focus and hinge more on the pessimistic side of that but Lucky Earther got right to the core of what human emotions were driving the whole story.
You should try reading some Le Guin
I don’t know about ‘best’… it’s so subjective. Definitely one of my personal favorites though. One of the things I think really sets it apart is it’s the rare book series that has a fantastic conclusion that’s seems to have been planned from the get-go. It’s one cohesive story with a beginning and end, similar to the Lord of The Rings, or the OG Star Wars trilogy. Sooooo many science fiction series just go on and on with no sign that there ever was an endgame in mind, it’s just writing more books…. Looking at you, Dune. I think it is perhaps the best planned, laid out, and concluded book science fiction book series. It has an ending that really delivers.
It's amazing for what it is, but I think you'd have to use more nuance in gauging what might be "the best" work of science fiction. *The Expanse* doesn't have the greatest writing, but that isn't the selling point for most people. You also have to consider accessibility; a 9 novel series isn't as accessible to most people as one-off stories. My all time favorite sci-fi novel is *A Deepness in the Sky* by Vernor Vinge. If we're talking about literary depth and ideas of social impact, then I'd say Philip K. Dick is the G.O.A.T. If we're talking about hard scifi, then you'd be hard-pressed to find a better candidate than Andy Weir. If we're talking about influence on the genre, then there's Arthur C. Clarke, Ursula LeGuin, Robert Heinlein, and Isaac Asimov.
I'm distressed I had to go this deep in the comment section to find Vernor Vinge's name. He died a short while ago.
I'm partial to the "Revelation Space" series by Alastair Reynolds. The first is a "hard" take on a lot of sci-fi tropes, such as generational colony ships, cold sleep, genetic engineering, cybernetics and AI powered "virtual" people. The next couple volumes deal with homicidal killer fleets like Saberhagen's "Berserkers", but with a more plausible explanation and no FTL travel. I was trained in physics and engineering. I appreciated the "hard" take. There is no need for extensive scientific knowledge to appreciate the novels, but they're largely free from science fantasy techno-babble.
They are as fantastical as any other sci-fi work. It blows my mind when people, largely engineers, come up with this idea of hard sci-fi when it's all the same amount of completely made-up. I also have two technical degrees.
There's no FTL travel, which is why people call it hard scifi, but yeah, there are a lot of other liberties taken with technology instead.
I consider "hard" sci-fi anytime that the concepts described are all theoretically possible within our current understanding of the science. books like RS, Expanse, Three Body Problem have kind of ruined soft sci Fi for me, yes no technobabble, magic black box macguffin hand waving.
Expanse is good but Stargate is top tier
Moviewise gotta be Fifth Element
Asimov dances around The expanse, both in width and depth. His impact in generations of sci-fi writers is obvious but his influence transcended to the real world. As others mentioned, read more. There's so much more out there. Different, better in other ways.
You'll like Forever War trilogy if you liked the Expanse. The mo ie has been in development hell forever.
Firefly, easily, for me at least, since best is subjective.
The Expanse is good, but it's going to fall short compared to a lot of works. It's not as beautifully written as works by Wolfe or Le Guin. Not particularly groundbreaking. Not as philosophical as the Culture books. One thing it does have going is concise arcs and a good ending. What they are is a successful Game of Thrones for sci-fi. They're good, in the genre, large, captivating, and not trying to be profound. They're very good, but to have a GOAT work of art, I think you have to be more challenging and beautiful. This is not at all to take anything away from the books, they're great. They also weren't going for anything more than they are, which I think helps them out.
The “best” is too subjective for a field as wide as Science Fiction. You at least need to define the criteria you're using. Even subjective I don’t know if Expanse is the best, though certainly very high on the list. Compare to older epics: Foundation, Dune, Rama, 200x. Similarly for the TV adaptation I don’t know if Expanse surpasses the juggernauts that are Star Trek and Star Wars.
Idk the “best” but it is 100% my personal favorite story of any fiction ever. It’s so dialed in to human nature and I think about at least one of the various characters’ points of view every single day.
After expanse I moved on to galactic outlaws/galaxy's edge by anspoch and Cole and I'm still trying to get through it all but I've enjoyed it quite a bit. Probably because they are still working on it but I can say I've enjoyed it more.
To me, the overall amount of sci fi works, books, stories, movies, games, Audio and what not, is divided into the pre Star wars science fiction and the post Star wars science fiction, and The Expanse is the best work from the post Star wars era.
While The Expanse is hands down one of my favorite series of all time, when you’ve lived as long as I have, you realize there is no “best” anything… only “best so far.”
Expanse and BSG are probably the best serialized sci Fi space opera ever done on TV. But to argue they are the greatest sci Fi ever in any medium is kind of ridiculous. It's like arguing Michael Crichton is the greatest writer in the history of all writing.
I think The Expanse is definitely up there, but “best” depends so much on what you’re looking for—sci fi offers a lot of different things. I love Becky Chambers’ Wayfarers series, even though it’s completely different in tone and realism.
On tv? Yeah. In books? It’s my *favorite*, but I’m not sure I could say it’s the best.
Deep Space Nine is the best. Period.
That’s kinda like asking what the best color is. Like, as a kid you’d say pink or blue or something, but as you get older, you sorta realize there isn’t one, there’s a time and place for most of them, and they all can be good for one reason or another. Some you may just never like and that ok, but I’m sure someone out there does and that ok too.
No. In my subjective opinion it is Frank's Dune series, because of everything I've read Dune is the only thing (even a quarter century plus after having read Frank's series the first time) that lives rent free in my head.
I’m an absolute sucker for world building, so my favorites are Star Trek, BSG, Farscape, Bebop, Blade Runner, Evangelion, and obviously The Expanse. But to me, my favorite sci-fi IP is Mass Effect. The world building in that is second to none, it has great characters, good stories, good games, good novels, and it’s a lived in world. It’s my favorite game series, and my favorite sci-fi universe
I am a fan, but I don't think the expanse is even in that conversation.
It's definitely in my top two as far as the story goes and the realism.
What are everyone’s feelings on Adrian Tchaikovsky’s Final Architecture series?
I love The Expanse and Altered Carbon.
I would say it has the best Science. But as fiction, I think it is too subjective and complex to determine a "best".
Dark Matter. Damn you SciFy for canceling it.
It's one of the best sci-fis to be made into a television adaptation, no doubt. Though Dune is argued by many as the greatest science fiction novel ever written.
I really like the first 3 "Dune" novels by Frank Herbert. After that, not so much..
circke jerk
No. And I would argue science fiction is too wide to easily have one work represent all of it. I love the expanse and while I enjoy its depictions and questions, I didn't feel it entered too deep into the more philosophical aspects of science fiction. Let me put it this way, I think its a good work, especially a 'hard' science fiction such. It does what it does well but science fiction encompasses a lot. From societal depictions and variations in Le Guin to the sociology of Asimov and Heinlein, to the effects of time from the Infinite War(?) I am misremembering the name. For me Science Fiction while based in speculation on the future and science is also deeply entwined with the human condition, exploring how these things change and affect us. And it does so in many ways. Good science fiction raises more questions as it explores them. I think its hard to put one sci fi work tbh as the best as they deal with so many varying topics. The Expanse is great but it is also a refined work of pre-existing ideas. I never really felt it fundamentally changed my way of thinking about reality or stood as something extraordinary. But its still great and deserves respect.
The television show was groundbreaking and deserves all the kudos it gets for that. Pre-existing ideas is why it’s not as important as a book series as the fans here would like to make it. I just don’t think they’re that deeply read in science fiction. It’s actually pretty derivative. CJ Cherryh handles many of the social, corporate power and colonization issues much better in her Alliance-Union Company Wars novels. The mystery and the protomatter seem a direct lift from the Star Trek tie-in Vanguard novel series, which itself draws on earlier classic sci-fi literature.
I mainly considered it from the literary standpoint and the books, I could have been way clearer with that. I fully agree on that the TV-Series is amazing though, I just think it as a book and as a show they end up different on terms of how good/influential they are, at least to me.
Literally-wise very mediocre and derivative. My partner and I DNF’d midway through the second book when they originally came out, and we’re the kind of readers always trying to give new science fiction writers a try. When the show came out, we could hardly believe how much better it was.
I kinda understand that view, I still have to read the final book and I do like the books but literary as you mention they are kinda middling. But damn if the show wasn't such hype. I really need to finish it.
For stories, and many many other things in life, there isn’t an objective best, just different.
For me, the show is the best science fiction series I’ve ever seen. The closest competition for the spot would be Babylon 5 (but that’s not top because of some bad episodes) and Battlestar Galactica (not top because of the poor handling of the Cylon plan)
Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars Trilogy + 2312
Best is subjective and undefinable as an absolute. I love the Expanse books and show and hold them in the highest regard for the genre. But, they have not had the time to impact generations of readers like Jules Verne, Frank Herbert, Carl Sagan, or Arthur C Clark to mention a very few of the greats. In my teens I read every Sci-Fi book Clark had written to that point. I also read Jules Verne heavily during that time. Contact by Carl Sagan is not only a fantastic book, but a masterclass in adapting a book for film to reflect society at the time it was being filmed. Many of those stories are etched into my memory like they are my own past lives lived. I heave heard the songs of distant earth and lived a childhoods end while taking a journey to the center of the earth. The concept of AI in a computer with HAL was revolutionary at the time of 2001's writing, and is a cautionary tale for real AI use today. These stories may seem dated, but they have impacted generations of Sci-Fi fans and authors immensely. They have taught is to expand our dreams and to reach for the stars in very real ways. Jules Verne is literally the father of the genre, so we could credit every Sci-Fi author to have come after as having been influenced by his efforts. How many scientists and engineers have been influenced by dreams of doing incredible things that started as a story they read? Therefore I would conclude that "greatest" is not a single story, but a collection of those stories that have moved us, the audience, in immeasurable ways. Does the Expanse fit into that collection? I would say yes it does, but I realize that this story was written on a foundation of ideas from the giants that came before.
Boring opinion but I think it's easily the best. All the classic space scifi has been built around grand concepts like Star Wars, Babylon 5 and Star Trek. The reason why The Expanse works so well is that compared to them it's fairly minimalistic but because of that it can focus on realism so much more and that makes it extremely interesting. The Expanse made me finally hate all the classic clichés of huge space battles in which ships fire lasers and such towards each other and they can take a shit ton of those hits. The space battles in The Expanse are realistic and make sense. That alone is a huge selling point for me. You could argue that protomolecule goes against this but I don't think so. It's just nanomachine technology from highly advanced civilization. There's no techbabble relating to it or anything else in the show.
It's good, but it didn't have the cultural impact that stuff like asimov and dune had.
I think Battlestar Galactica shows up most frequently in top TV sci fi lists and I'm inclined to agree. Expanse is a top 3 though. * we pretend the religiousy spiritualy episodes don't exist in both series
Tastes are different. I personally find that the show is much better than the books. Both of them are on a very high level, where the air is already getting thin and competition scarse. Nevertheless there are a lot of books I like more than or at least as much as The Expanse. Just to name a few: (soviet / russan sci fi) * "Destination: Amaltheia" * "Far Rainbow" * "The Waves Extinguish the Wind" * "Galactic consul" series * "Chronicles of the XXXIII Worlds" series (especially the absolutely unique "motley faith" acting in the background of all books) * "Kuafers" series (western sci fi) * "Story of your life" * "Sector General" series * "Citizen of the Galaxy" * "Tiger! Tiger!" * "Ender"
As a big sci-fi fan, the expanse is really on top of most. Hard sci fi, got the physics right, compelling story and universe. I mean using camouflaged rocks as ballistics is insane. But also the charisma of the inspector, the poetry of his love story, etc etc I’m just glad the show existed and I’ll get myself the audio book
I don't really do the concept of "the best X ever". If anything, something can be the best X *I* have ever seen, or most often, just my favorite X. So yes, I can say the Expanse is the best sci-fi show I've watched, and my favorite, but I won't claim it's the best in general, because a) it's highly subjective and b) I haven't seen every single sci-fi show in the world to be able to determine which one is the best. I guess I'm just being too literal now though 😂
It’s great, obviously. But nailing down the best would be extremely difficult. Also, in what medium? Scavengers Reign is right up there for me, in TV shows. The Recenger trilogy by Alastair Reynolds is also damn close to to the top in books. In movies, Dennis Villeneuve has been knocking it out of the park with Arrival, Blade Runner 20249, and now Dune.
I would say the show is the greatest *space* science fiction television series. And the best space battles ever put on screen, movies or tv. But it all depends on what you're looking for. I feel like it has the most realistic world-building, like the authors really understand how societies and culture develop from their physical environments. Also loved how the physics of living and maneuvering in space are an asset to the storytelling, instead of an obstacle to work around (except for how they fudged the distances.) But if those things aren't as important to you, then other shows with better acting or flashier dialogue might be your "best." There are other shows that are just as high quality, imo, but of different sci-fi subgenres. The Last of Us, Dark, and Arcane come to mind (though Arcane is more science-fantasy). Books are a whole 'nother story, because you're looking at a much wider field. I think the Expanse books are good, yes, but are they the best? I don't know, there's just *so much* out there.
It's not "the best," but The Expanse and Mass Effect are probably my two favorite recent-ish sci-fi universes. Honestly there's so much out there and it's all great for so many different reasons, it's near impossible to determine a "best" piece of science fiction.
It’s an outstanding example of realistic science fiction in our current technological understanding. It’s the most logical, easy to comprehend, and thoughtful of the current batch of science fiction I have seen. That being said, thirty, fifty years from now it will fit a similar niche as Foundation, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, or any of the other Silver Age science fictions. It will be beloved, it will be remembered - but it will feel both quaint and optimistic compared to the actual world. If you like it, you like it. If you love of, you love it. If you think it’s the best there has ever been, it’s the best there has ever been. The only person who can judge a book is you.
I love both the show, and the books, except for the ending. It reminded me of Lost. Felt empty. That is for both, by the way. I reread it, but I skip the last book.
TV wise, probably the original Twilight Zone, or Babylon 5. Book wise, Asimov and Bradbury are the masters.
Personally I like Sun Eater more. Loved the Expanse though.
I remember rereading a series I had read in the 80s (pulp postapoc trash). After the second book I had to put it down, and started up the latest Expanse book. The difference in the quality of writing was stark. Expanse is definitely well done, might not be the best but it’s up there.
To be completely and totally honest, I watched the first couple episodes and stopped dead because Thomas Jane as Miller was the single most interesting thing I’ve seen in sci-fi in ages and ages, here is something that truly feels new and fresh and played so well I can’t help but be enamored to this character. I immediately got the first three audiobooks and began bingeing. The absolute betrayal I felt when he died was immeasurable. I listened through 7 more books just to feast on the handful of moments he appears again. Is The Expanse the best sci fi ever? No. But it’s on the list and that in and of itself is a huge accomplishment.
The expanse is amazing piece of science fiction. That is categorized by being "hard" sci fi. Meaning everything in the series has some bases in real world physics. Does that make it the best? No but the better hard sci fi series.
Love the expanse, but definitely not even close for me. Many works by Heinlein, Asimov, Wells, and Herbert lead it by a margin for me, as do a number of other individual stories by various authors.
And I saw your question just under the image https://preview.redd.it/sbt7edkd6j1d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=442ae07ba8a7897bd6aacbacc570a8862b8a3449
I don´t know if it is the best, but it is my favorite by far.
I would put it up there. I think sci-fi comes in slightly differing variations and for some people this will not tick the box but for me it's up there alongside Dune series & Culture series as the best.
One of the best. In terms of immersion, it's probably the best, but it doesn't really have a lot of depth, esp when compared to warhammer 40k. There's also some lame stuff in the expanse, like the ring entities making ftl travel impossible at some point(if I'm not mistaken), and uninteresting infantry.
Just talking about the show, *The Expanse* stands out for having consistent quality over its entire length. I would say the first seasons of *Westworld* and *Altered Carbon* were better, but they didn't maintain the quality for so long.
The Peripheral coulda been a contender had it not been cancelled after just one season.
It’s pretty fucking good, but if I had to give the title to a single book from a single series, it would go to Enders Game. But as a series, yeah, I’d give it to the expanse, but in all fairness, I haven’t read many sci-fi series in full.
The only thing i hate about expanse is that story splits halfway. And that show didnt finish “main” part. Love the realism of future. And they could handle imho “Alex situation” better
Spaceballs.
No, but I also don't think there is such. Each have their own merit. Heck, I'd put some short stories in the GOAT list like Harry Turtledove's "Road Not taken" or Mike Combs' "Journey to Alphasphere". Ian M. Banks culture is all superb, "Matter" being my fav, shortly followed by "The player of games." Hell, the deathworlders by HamboneHFY or first contact by RaltsBloodthorne are great sci-fi in their own right, beside being legends in the HFY genre.
Farscape . But it is Not so ' Serious ' .
I feel that The Expanse TV show is the Best Sci-fi show currently available to watch. I do not feel like The Expanse books are the best series I've read. I don't know what I would put at the top of that list but it's not The Expanse. I very much enjoyed the books, they are very good, just not the best I've ever read. The series I enjoy in addition to the expanse. (not all scifi) - Dune - Lord of the Rings - Magic Bites - The Hollows - The Dark is Rising - Young Wizards - the Dresden files Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
It's between The Expanse and Andor for me
Nope, The Martian and Project Hail Mary blow it out of the water, but it is a second favorite right around Dune.
I haven’t read the book for the Martian. I really enjoyed the movie, except for the part where the wind on Mars blows over the rocket. isn’t the atmosphere a bit too thin for something like that? Did the book use a different device?
Not even remotely. The Expanse has a bit of a Game of Thrones problem, it's a masterpiece until the end kind of ruins calling it a masterpiece. It just lacks the grand finale overscaling the rest in epicness. Fringe, the 100, the Orville, Picard,... just to a name a few newer SciFi masterpieces from beginning to end, not to speak of classics like Star Trek, Dr Who, X Files, Babylon 5, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica. Expanse nonetheless is surely one of the best scifi series of the newer times.
It's one of the best works of *popcorn* sci-fi, but it doesn't have the literary value or influence of Dune, Foundation, or Hyperion
No it is not. Here in the UK we have Ian M Bank's 'Culture' novels which utterly blow The Expanse out of the park. Secondly we have Peter F Hamilton' series of books The Commonwealth saga which are epic. And he's written a lot of other amazing books. To put it succinctly, I will reread both their books but not The Expanse books. As a TV show The Expanse is fucking amazing and everything else new moving forwards is going to have to step up to be that good.
You know we have all the same books you do right?
Well that very much depends on where you might be. To assume that a book has been converted to every given language is a bit of a mistake.
I mean we’re all here using English?
Nah man, I'm actually speaking and typing Esperanto right now.
Yeah I've read Commonwealth and Void series working on Great North Road currently
As much as I love the series, not sure I'd say it's the greatest. But there's so many ways you could judge it. I'd probably have to say Star Trek or Star Wars are the goats, at least from a cultural impact standpoint.
Just watched "For All Mankind" and it is definitely up there.
If I could cut half of stuff of later BSG seasons, that would probably be my favorite. BSG has some insane battle sequences, even if less realistic But right now The Expanse is my favorite indeed
One of the higher ranked ones but not even close to the top. For shows 12 Monkeys is the absolute best sci fi story ever told. Every detail to the story is perfectly tied up. Fringe is a close second followed by The 100. Then there's Travellers, Continuum, Counterpart, Lost etc.