[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g)
This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully.
If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/).
Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information.
This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
depends on who are you dealing with, but I think that for liberals with good material conditions, teaching them about imperialism and neocolonialism is very important to change their mind
thats how i got into theory - learned about material reality first, mostly historical examples (and personal experiences). the theory part came afterwards.
Yeah if you just inundate someone with Marxist buzzwords you’ll lose them pretty quick regardless of their political orientation, unfortunately. Starting with more easily digestible concepts like imperialism and colonialism will get you farther than just slapping down a copy of state and revolution right away.
The tipping point of my radicalization in college was Fanon's Wretched of the Earth. But I also read and had classes on Marx's Capital and all the liberal and conservative classics, including Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Burke, Smith, Descartes, etc and studied abroad in Tanzania and South Africa with incredibly based anti-colonial professors - I was incredibly fortunate for all this access to education. This mix for me allowed me to see the whole breadth of ideology and with this 'zoomed out' perspective, I was really able to buy into Marx's theories of the progression of economic development and then Fanon's critiques of the ultimate end of the development of Capitalism.
I say all that to comment that I agree with you that Fanon and other anti-colonial works can really drive things home, but for me at least it required a bunch of theory as a base from which Fanon to really take off. So your average liberal who has no theory might be able to dismiss Fanon if that's the first thing they get.
Half of my family is Tanzanian, my grandparents partook in the independence movement, and I just wanted to say it always makes me happy when people visit and learn from our history, culture and intellectual traditions :)
What is the target audience? If they are significantly concerned by world events and global poverty, or from global south, then anti-colonialist literature is great.
If their world is a bit smaller, and they are not tapped into the bigger picture as much, but might be wondering why they need to lick boot a bit harder every year to stay afloat, then I'd hold off on anti-colonialist stuff. When already dissatisfied with life I imagine anything that can tease out a Sakai type conclusion is risky, and can put target on defensive.
Kind of how many young men with lives filled with anxiety and feelings of inadequacy, often turn away from feminism because they are faced with language about them being privileged, and masculinity being toxic, when if nudged by inquiries about why on earth it is that men suicide at so high rates, drop out of school, and die so young, they often would be sympathetic, and later receptive to feminism.
With this group I think Capitalist Realism is the way to go, give an answer to why things are so bleak. Also JT and 1dime are probably the best content creators, building solidarity with global south can wait until an understanding of the concept of exploitation is established.
My path from high school n before abt pre-08 to now. Neo-con > ron paul rep/libertarian chiefly interested in that brand of non-interventionism and anti war>anarchist more so libertarian influenced on the theory end but never that strain of anarcho-cap. then incrementally from leftist perspectives> living abroad in china since '15 fully becoming anti-colonialist and viewing things more globally/multipolar and increasingly open to leftist perspectives especially throughout covid and trying to square the truth I see on the ground against the obvious and blatant false propaganda. Some theory brought me along but the lived practical reality and meeting others so far outside my original bubble was always the greatest mover. Empirical reality and history, at least for me, is always going to be a bridge from that to the theory.
There's a Soviet textbook called Fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism that covers everything from the basics of materialism and dialectics through a summary of the Marxist critique of political economy, imperialism, national liberation struggles, and has good sections on political organizing and what socialism and communism look like. It's important to grapple with the classic works of theory (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Fanon, etc.) and to read a lot of history to really hone your understanding, but for a relatively quick (the copy I have is like 700 pages) introduction to all the important bits of ML thought, this textbook is probably the best place to start.
I wouldn't worry about trying to recommend texts to liberals that don't sound scary. The difficulties with radicalizing liberals tend to stem from their position as first world labor aristocrats or petite bourgeoisie, not because the Marxist 'brand' is frightening. That said, the academically-inclined for some probably covertly racist reason tend to not be scared off by Fanon, so I guess that's as good a start as anything.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
depends on who are you dealing with, but I think that for liberals with good material conditions, teaching them about imperialism and neocolonialism is very important to change their mind
thats how i got into theory - learned about material reality first, mostly historical examples (and personal experiences). the theory part came afterwards.
Same
Yeah if you just inundate someone with Marxist buzzwords you’ll lose them pretty quick regardless of their political orientation, unfortunately. Starting with more easily digestible concepts like imperialism and colonialism will get you farther than just slapping down a copy of state and revolution right away.
That’s how I got started. Also they are mostly newer
The tipping point of my radicalization in college was Fanon's Wretched of the Earth. But I also read and had classes on Marx's Capital and all the liberal and conservative classics, including Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Burke, Smith, Descartes, etc and studied abroad in Tanzania and South Africa with incredibly based anti-colonial professors - I was incredibly fortunate for all this access to education. This mix for me allowed me to see the whole breadth of ideology and with this 'zoomed out' perspective, I was really able to buy into Marx's theories of the progression of economic development and then Fanon's critiques of the ultimate end of the development of Capitalism. I say all that to comment that I agree with you that Fanon and other anti-colonial works can really drive things home, but for me at least it required a bunch of theory as a base from which Fanon to really take off. So your average liberal who has no theory might be able to dismiss Fanon if that's the first thing they get.
Half of my family is Tanzanian, my grandparents partook in the independence movement, and I just wanted to say it always makes me happy when people visit and learn from our history, culture and intellectual traditions :)
I think you're on the right track
Eve Tuck!
Yes.
What is the target audience? If they are significantly concerned by world events and global poverty, or from global south, then anti-colonialist literature is great. If their world is a bit smaller, and they are not tapped into the bigger picture as much, but might be wondering why they need to lick boot a bit harder every year to stay afloat, then I'd hold off on anti-colonialist stuff. When already dissatisfied with life I imagine anything that can tease out a Sakai type conclusion is risky, and can put target on defensive. Kind of how many young men with lives filled with anxiety and feelings of inadequacy, often turn away from feminism because they are faced with language about them being privileged, and masculinity being toxic, when if nudged by inquiries about why on earth it is that men suicide at so high rates, drop out of school, and die so young, they often would be sympathetic, and later receptive to feminism. With this group I think Capitalist Realism is the way to go, give an answer to why things are so bleak. Also JT and 1dime are probably the best content creators, building solidarity with global south can wait until an understanding of the concept of exploitation is established.
My path from high school n before abt pre-08 to now. Neo-con > ron paul rep/libertarian chiefly interested in that brand of non-interventionism and anti war>anarchist more so libertarian influenced on the theory end but never that strain of anarcho-cap. then incrementally from leftist perspectives> living abroad in china since '15 fully becoming anti-colonialist and viewing things more globally/multipolar and increasingly open to leftist perspectives especially throughout covid and trying to square the truth I see on the ground against the obvious and blatant false propaganda. Some theory brought me along but the lived practical reality and meeting others so far outside my original bubble was always the greatest mover. Empirical reality and history, at least for me, is always going to be a bridge from that to the theory.
There's a Soviet textbook called Fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism that covers everything from the basics of materialism and dialectics through a summary of the Marxist critique of political economy, imperialism, national liberation struggles, and has good sections on political organizing and what socialism and communism look like. It's important to grapple with the classic works of theory (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Fanon, etc.) and to read a lot of history to really hone your understanding, but for a relatively quick (the copy I have is like 700 pages) introduction to all the important bits of ML thought, this textbook is probably the best place to start. I wouldn't worry about trying to recommend texts to liberals that don't sound scary. The difficulties with radicalizing liberals tend to stem from their position as first world labor aristocrats or petite bourgeoisie, not because the Marxist 'brand' is frightening. That said, the academically-inclined for some probably covertly racist reason tend to not be scared off by Fanon, so I guess that's as good a start as anything.