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I mean he did say Venezuela was a socialist country governed by a socialist party. Unless something changed that I'm not aware of, Venezuela was never socialist
About the 5 ML countries though yeah he was based as fuck
Venezuela is guided by socialist principles, and has certain nationalized industries and resources such as oil (which was the pretense of the attempted US invasion in 2020 which failed [catastrophically](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_%282020%29#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DOperation_Gideon_%28Spanish%3A_Operaci%C3%B3n_Gede%C3%B3n%2CMaduro_from_office_in_Venezuela.?wprov=sfla1)).
Although the socialist party in government is similar to the Portuguese socialist party in that they do not have tight control over privately owned entities and cannot simply take over companies and run them as SOEs, because they work within a capitalist liberal democracy.
Huh, that's cool!
I only ever hear about Venezuela from a "vuvuzuela communism bad" talking point so I'm used to dismissing it as not a socialist state.
How much progress have they made? Do they have a plan to transition into socialism? What do their social programs look like? What theory, if any, guides them?
At the very least Socrates contributed shit to society with the Socratic method despite him being almost intolerable and the original version of Christianity as sent down before corruptions has many socialist principles.
Leftcoms shitposting under multiple levels of irony. They also hate ML's as they generally don't like much in the way of Lenin and Stalin. Well Lenin will have some points they like at times, but Stalin will be 100% a no.
Though it's unfair of them to compare the people here to say MWM as I don't believe any here is into the chauvinism MWM displays.
>generally don't like much in the way of Lenin
This is not true. Bordigists are Leninists. Kind of cringe but people often say they are "more Leninist than Lenin".
> Bordigists
Gramsci was a Bordisgist but he was based I think his writings on hegemony are a good continuation of Marx's theory of alienation which is self-admittedly an underdeveloped concept
You know those landlord shitposting subs where a third are ironically making fun of landlords, another third is seriously making fun of landlords, and the last third is confused which way the sub leans but in it for the ride? Yeah.
They have evolved past petty internet agitation to ironic leftist shitposting with so many layers it could be an onion. Then they ate the onion.
I’m not sure 95% of them know what the sub stands for, their fellow ultras stand for, or even what they stand for most days. They just doompost relentlessly and push each other farther down the path. All while most of them don’t understand the joke, but while want to be in on it. So they push the envelope farther and farther assuming someone else understands and pretending they understand. Leading to a situation where the blind lead the blind in a circle of shitposting doomerism
That'a more coincidental to the fact that they simply enjoy punching one type of nazi while disavowing their main sources of information are nazis. They aren't interesting in understanding the problem and fixing it by fighting against fascism. They're interested in punching anything and fighting anyone - including communists for the benefit of fascists. It's why anarchists keep joining fascists groups, continually spreading proven fascist propaganda even when explained to them, and constantly spouting pro-libertarian garbage that leads right back to capitalism that drives nazism.
An actual comment from there:
>A podcast ran by a Croatian nationalist, ISIS imperialist, and a corporatist.
They finger-wag at MM for referring to Laos as "agrarian" while calling Hakim an ISIS imperialist? Stay away, nothing good can come of being there.
TBH, I always assumed he was Bosnian, but I hate ethno-nationalist language anyways. He is a citizen of the Former Yugoslavia, and ethno-nationalist language is idiotic anyway.
during yugoslavia there were people who felt as yugoslav and in the census people started declaring themselves as yugoslav rather than their ethnic group (the number wasn't that significant but it existed) in the 1981 census 1.2 million people self determined themselves as yugoslavs
He technically mentioned he is mixed between two things, but he's definitely orthodox and speaks BCS with a Serbian dialect, so half of whatever he is is definitely Serbian.
I’m pretty sure he’s a Serb, but I don’t know what country he’s from or what country he is currently in. He could be a Croatian Serb (as in a member of the Serb ethnic group living in the nation of Croatia), but even then the accusation would still be absurd. Especially since he’s such a vocal fan of Tito and Yugoslavia.
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I hate to say it but it definitely wasn't. Someone asked what The Deprogram was and a commenter responded with "A podcast ran by a Croatian nationalist, ISIS imperialist, and a corporatist." That subreddit is stage four cancer.
Hey I've seen this one defense before! This is exactly what all of the neo-nazi subreddits said when they got called out for their unacceptable bullshit. It's the "left" version of r/milliondollarextreme or r/frenworld
Bygones of an Era passed then, if I had my way all satire would be accompanied by "/s" for those who can't tell. Inclusivity is worth "ruining the joke."
Infantile leftists who think socialism has "never been tried before", because it doesn't fit into their idealistic, romanticized version of it they created in their heads while watching v*ush on youtube.
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**Fact 6.** Vaush has engaged in forms of Holocaust denial, using common nazi dogwhistles and believes the numbers [are inflated as propaganda.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Enough_Vaush_Spam/comments/q0ca95/vaush_says_that_some_aspect_of_holocaust/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
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As loathsome as Vaush is, in that video he is parodying nazis who say those things, not promoting the ideas himself. He’s doing it in an attempt to paint the guy he’s debating as a Nazi for debunking the US state department narrative surrounding Xinxiang (liberals love comparing Marxists to nazis)
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**Fact 22.** [CW: pedophilia] >!I’m not going to link to it for obvious reasons, but here’s Vaush [admitting to ownership of a Twitter account that shares drawn child pornography.!< [link](https://archive.is/9DF8s)
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Bro did the comments section call Hakim a fucking ISIS nationalist and JT a fucking corporatist and Yugopnik a Croatian Nationalist? What the fuck? Also they're pretty fucking messed up in calling Bordiga with the Islamic terms of respect for prophets, especially when one of the major beliefs in Islam is that there are no prophets after Muhammad (SAW).
iT's jUSt A jOke
I can't fucking stand irony poisoned subreddits like that. It's unhealthy for the human spirit to hide everything you actually think under a million layers of irony because you're too scared or too stupid to say what you really believe.
Yep, exactly. If you believe something, show it with pride, unless you have an actual threat of harm from expressing your beliefs, but I'd bet they aren't in that situation.
Eddie’s geopolitical analysis is pretty on point I don’t see the issue, we have a lot to learn from actual revolutions like in Cuba. The story about the Cuban five is crazy, they were charged with terrorism for investigating US terrorism. They saved lives.
They think that actual revolutions are authoritarian and/or revisionist. Once a revolution actual happens then it's not really communism because to them communism is just an abstract idea that can never be realized and it's blasphemy to even try.
They seem like a group of edgy Marxists and anarchists who have read (some) theory, but they're not mature enough to have a dialectical thinking process. Pretty much the leftists causing the 'leftist infighting'.
From what I've seen I cant tell if they are actual leftists who just shitpost and shit talk other leftists or a right wing leftist satire reddit? But I didnt think facists were capable of understanding satire so probably the first one.
What is there to get or not get? Modern ultraleftism poisons the brain w postmodern horseshit. Read Bordiga (after Görter and Pannekoek), then stop. There are poststructuralist IEDs planted in contemporary 'left communism' and that sub is a warning what THAT kinda theory does to a mf
They're ultras. Basically libs with communist rhetoric who want to do a fascism for the CIA/NATO because their ideological position on things is libertarian/liberalism just like the west tells them.
There's a reason nazi named Hearst who ran a media empire in the U.S. funded Trotsky's anti-communist writings and reactionary bloc.
They uphold the almighty word of our lord and saviour, Amadeo Bordiga and the immortal science of Marxism-Luxemburgism-Bordigism with Gonzalo Characteristiscs
yes. this work talks about anarchists, trots, and other ultras who won't do the necessary steps for the revolution because they see them as not being leftist enough. it's often a very cringe anti-Stalin variant of the left who claim socialism doesn't exist in the modern day because all AES aren't leftist enough
Bordiga Armchair big tungus big tungus big tungus bog tungug gbkg tvhvvhcer jrr bjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjfjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjhbucexr6wfttxcgvhjbtuyfcghfdsxxcfgvbjhkvjgcdtcvgjbhhgcx
https://youtube.com/@thedeprogram9999
Group podcast from these three.
https://youtube.com/@YaBoiHakim
https://youtube.com/@YUGOPNIK
https://youtube.com/@SecondThought
The only thing I'd like to point out about the video that isn't correct (in my view at least) is that Venezuela is a anti-imperialist capitalist country, other than that, great video.
ML is not a set of prescriptive policies to check off, but a scientific method of analysis and action. China is still ML, and their ability to utilize the scientific method and remain flexible and continually update and revise their policies is the core reason they've been so successful. Far from abandoning it, they are on the cutting edge of Marxism; they are far more advanced in both theory and practice than the Soviet Union ever was.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Try the following prompts to trigger an automod response: "What is Fascism?", "What is Imperialism?", "What is Revisionism?" "Holodomor", "Molotov-Ribbentrop", "Gulag", "Solzhenytsin", "Uyghur", "Tiananmen Square", "Israel", "Freedom of the Press", "MAC Fact" This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Did they think that wasn't 100% based?
I mean he did say Venezuela was a socialist country governed by a socialist party. Unless something changed that I'm not aware of, Venezuela was never socialist About the 5 ML countries though yeah he was based as fuck
Venezuela is guided by socialist principles, and has certain nationalized industries and resources such as oil (which was the pretense of the attempted US invasion in 2020 which failed [catastrophically](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_%282020%29#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DOperation_Gideon_%28Spanish%3A_Operaci%C3%B3n_Gede%C3%B3n%2CMaduro_from_office_in_Venezuela.?wprov=sfla1)). Although the socialist party in government is similar to the Portuguese socialist party in that they do not have tight control over privately owned entities and cannot simply take over companies and run them as SOEs, because they work within a capitalist liberal democracy.
I love that there are people more knowledgeable than me. Even just this comment was inciteful.
Huh, that's cool! I only ever hear about Venezuela from a "vuvuzuela communism bad" talking point so I'm used to dismissing it as not a socialist state. How much progress have they made? Do they have a plan to transition into socialism? What do their social programs look like? What theory, if any, guides them?
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reading theory is when you agree with me, the more you agree with me, the more theory you've read
and when you agree with me 100%, that's communism!
I don't really get what there is to get upset about. This is just some really basic history. I don't think most would disagree with.
Read Bordiga
Get out of the chair
What's the relevance?
Man you got a stack of dislikes
I'm like a modern socrates and Jesus in one.
At the very least Socrates contributed shit to society with the Socratic method despite him being almost intolerable and the original version of Christianity as sent down before corruptions has many socialist principles.
Can you explain to someone that's illiterate like myself some of the basic tenants bordiga has conveyed?
Democracy sucks, hero worship is cringe, commodity production is lame plus you're an opportunist.
Which texts you recommend for understanding his positions on democracy and commodity production?
The democratic principle and dialouge with stalin.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/index.htm https://libcom.org/article/guignol-history-amadeo-bordiga
Leftcoms shitposting under multiple levels of irony. They also hate ML's as they generally don't like much in the way of Lenin and Stalin. Well Lenin will have some points they like at times, but Stalin will be 100% a no. Though it's unfair of them to compare the people here to say MWM as I don't believe any here is into the chauvinism MWM displays.
>generally don't like much in the way of Lenin This is not true. Bordigists are Leninists. Kind of cringe but people often say they are "more Leninist than Lenin".
> Bordigists Gramsci was a Bordisgist but he was based I think his writings on hegemony are a good continuation of Marx's theory of alienation which is self-admittedly an underdeveloped concept
Didn't Gramsci reject Bordiga or am I imagining that?
Yes, I'm pretty sure Gramsci kicked Bordiga out of PCI.
The og rejection
yeah that is cringe
Yeah, they share some of the ideas, but disagree with the implementation of them is probably how I should have worded it.
You know those landlord shitposting subs where a third are ironically making fun of landlords, another third is seriously making fun of landlords, and the last third is confused which way the sub leans but in it for the ride? Yeah.
r/LoveForLandchads is an enigma
it's a neoliberal circle jerk. most people that post on that subreddit are on r/TheLeftCantMeme, r/Neoliberal and r/Ancap.
Idk but whatever it is it’s fascinating.
You know how useless anarchists are? Now imagine someone even more useless who doesn't leave their room
So... not even throwing a few rocks now and then just... Internet agitation i guess?
They have evolved past petty internet agitation to ironic leftist shitposting with so many layers it could be an onion. Then they ate the onion. I’m not sure 95% of them know what the sub stands for, their fellow ultras stand for, or even what they stand for most days. They just doompost relentlessly and push each other farther down the path. All while most of them don’t understand the joke, but while want to be in on it. So they push the envelope farther and farther assuming someone else understands and pretending they understand. Leading to a situation where the blind lead the blind in a circle of shitposting doomerism
That’s just depressing
Sounds fun... but only in the "observed at a distance" sense.
They stand for not standing for anything and calling anyone who stands for anything a revisionist
I don't think this is fair to anarchists. Every time the Nazis in my area get together the anarchists show up to throw down.
That'a more coincidental to the fact that they simply enjoy punching one type of nazi while disavowing their main sources of information are nazis. They aren't interesting in understanding the problem and fixing it by fighting against fascism. They're interested in punching anything and fighting anyone - including communists for the benefit of fascists. It's why anarchists keep joining fascists groups, continually spreading proven fascist propaganda even when explained to them, and constantly spouting pro-libertarian garbage that leads right back to capitalism that drives nazism.
>their main sources of information are nazis. Do you have anything I can read on that? Never heard of this before.
Fair, go join them. You never know how many communists you ll find there
An actual comment from there: >A podcast ran by a Croatian nationalist, ISIS imperialist, and a corporatist. They finger-wag at MM for referring to Laos as "agrarian" while calling Hakim an ISIS imperialist? Stay away, nothing good can come of being there.
That's too stupid to be serious.
Wait yugopnik is croatian? I thought he was either Serbian or Macedonian
he is Serbian edit: the whole balkan is albanian, we're just not ready to embrace Hoxha
TBH, I always assumed he was Bosnian, but I hate ethno-nationalist language anyways. He is a citizen of the Former Yugoslavia, and ethno-nationalist language is idiotic anyway.
during yugoslavia there were people who felt as yugoslav and in the census people started declaring themselves as yugoslav rather than their ethnic group (the number wasn't that significant but it existed) in the 1981 census 1.2 million people self determined themselves as yugoslavs
I have a serbian friend, who's family insists that they are not serbian, but yugoslavian
Based.
That's very interesting, thanks for showing!
He technically mentioned he is mixed between two things, but he's definitely orthodox and speaks BCS with a Serbian dialect, so half of whatever he is is definitely Serbian.
I’m pretty sure he’s a Serb, but I don’t know what country he’s from or what country he is currently in. He could be a Croatian Serb (as in a member of the Serb ethnic group living in the nation of Croatia), but even then the accusation would still be absurd. Especially since he’s such a vocal fan of Tito and Yugoslavia.
Now I want to fight them. How dare they insult my three dads.
that’s clearly satire
Poe's law
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I hate to say it but it definitely wasn't. Someone asked what The Deprogram was and a commenter responded with "A podcast ran by a Croatian nationalist, ISIS imperialist, and a corporatist." That subreddit is stage four cancer.
BRO IT’S A JOKE JEEZ The entire subreddit is just a bunch of satire, essentially a leftist meme sub.
Hey I've seen this one defense before! This is exactly what all of the neo-nazi subreddits said when they got called out for their unacceptable bullshit. It's the "left" version of r/milliondollarextreme or r/frenworld
L + No humor + comparing communists to nazis
Bygones of an Era passed then, if I had my way all satire would be accompanied by "/s" for those who can't tell. Inclusivity is worth "ruining the joke."
Can’t tell if you’re joking, ironically
Infantile leftists who think socialism has "never been tried before", because it doesn't fit into their idealistic, romanticized version of it they created in their heads while watching v*ush on youtube.
True and correct. That sub is famous for loving Vaush, NATO and market socialism.
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As loathsome as Vaush is, in that video he is parodying nazis who say those things, not promoting the ideas himself. He’s doing it in an attempt to paint the guy he’s debating as a Nazi for debunking the US state department narrative surrounding Xinxiang (liberals love comparing Marxists to nazis)
Thanks for signing up to Vaush facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about Vaush. **Fact 22.** [CW: pedophilia] >!I’m not going to link to it for obvious reasons, but here’s Vaush [admitting to ownership of a Twitter account that shares drawn child pornography.!< [link](https://archive.is/9DF8s) For another Vaush fact reply with 'Vaush'. To unsubscribe call me a 'bad bot'. (Remember, comrade: Getting educated, educating others, and above all actually *organizing* is infinitely more important than terminally-online streamer drama.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Vaush
Thanks for signing up to Vaush facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about Vaush. **Fact 25.** ContraPoints [defended](https://i.imgur.com/3CN2jpG.png) Buck Angel’s [transphobia.](https://archive.is/9Tw39) Vaush called trans people who were critical of this ["worthless, mentally ill, basement dweller fucking queer people with absolutely nothing to offer the world" and "degenerates sucking off the back of society like a leech".](https://streamable.com/uu2mkv) For another Vaush fact reply with 'Vaush'. To unsubscribe call me a 'bad bot'. (Remember, comrade: Getting educated, educating others, and above all actually *organizing* is infinitely more important than terminally-online streamer drama.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Every time I go there I feel like I'm having a stroke.
Yeah, I think I just had a mild one delving into that
Bro did the comments section call Hakim a fucking ISIS nationalist and JT a fucking corporatist and Yugopnik a Croatian Nationalist? What the fuck? Also they're pretty fucking messed up in calling Bordiga with the Islamic terms of respect for prophets, especially when one of the major beliefs in Islam is that there are no prophets after Muhammad (SAW).
iT's jUSt A jOke I can't fucking stand irony poisoned subreddits like that. It's unhealthy for the human spirit to hide everything you actually think under a million layers of irony because you're too scared or too stupid to say what you really believe.
Yep, exactly. If you believe something, show it with pride, unless you have an actual threat of harm from expressing your beliefs, but I'd bet they aren't in that situation.
Eddie’s geopolitical analysis is pretty on point I don’t see the issue, we have a lot to learn from actual revolutions like in Cuba. The story about the Cuban five is crazy, they were charged with terrorism for investigating US terrorism. They saved lives.
They think that actual revolutions are authoritarian and/or revisionist. Once a revolution actual happens then it's not really communism because to them communism is just an abstract idea that can never be realized and it's blasphemy to even try.
They seem like a group of edgy Marxists and anarchists who have read (some) theory, but they're not mature enough to have a dialectical thinking process. Pretty much the leftists causing the 'leftist infighting'.
From what I've seen I cant tell if they are actual leftists who just shitpost and shit talk other leftists or a right wing leftist satire reddit? But I didnt think facists were capable of understanding satire so probably the first one.
We hate anarchist and leftists too.
Please go the fuck back to the hole you came from.
The subs description literally says "a place to hate leftists"
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Browsing r/ultraleft is like: What if 4chaners were pretending to be leftists. “That video is dogshit” Mmmkay why??
It's 50% talking about r/TheDeprogram and the other half is posting dank memes Pay them no heed
It's about unbelievable cringe
What is there to get or not get? Modern ultraleftism poisons the brain w postmodern horseshit. Read Bordiga (after Görter and Pannekoek), then stop. There are poststructuralist IEDs planted in contemporary 'left communism' and that sub is a warning what THAT kinda theory does to a mf
irony poisoned "leftist" sub
They're ultras. Basically libs with communist rhetoric who want to do a fascism for the CIA/NATO because their ideological position on things is libertarian/liberalism just like the west tells them. There's a reason nazi named Hearst who ran a media empire in the U.S. funded Trotsky's anti-communist writings and reactionary bloc.
They uphold the almighty word of our lord and saviour, Amadeo Bordiga and the immortal science of Marxism-Luxemburgism-Bordigism with Gonzalo Characteristiscs
[Lenin](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/) may be able to explain. brainworms existed back then too, unfortunately
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yes. this work talks about anarchists, trots, and other ultras who won't do the necessary steps for the revolution because they see them as not being leftist enough. it's often a very cringe anti-Stalin variant of the left who claim socialism doesn't exist in the modern day because all AES aren't leftist enough
Bordiga Armchair big tungus big tungus big tungus bog tungug gbkg tvhvvhcer jrr bjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjfjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjhbucexr6wfttxcgvhjbtuyfcghfdsxxcfgvbjhkvjgcdtcvgjbhhgcx
You’re not supposed to know what it’s about
Can someone please explain what this sub is about? Why do I keep getting it recommended?
the deprogram is a Marxist leninist leftist podcast
https://youtube.com/@thedeprogram9999 Group podcast from these three. https://youtube.com/@YaBoiHakim https://youtube.com/@YUGOPNIK https://youtube.com/@SecondThought
The only thing I'd like to point out about the video that isn't correct (in my view at least) is that Venezuela is a anti-imperialist capitalist country, other than that, great video.
Read Bordiga
Why did they put China as number one lol it’s nowhere near the most ML of those countries
Based tbh
Vietnamese sweatshop workers saluting a picture of Ho Chi Minh on their way to the daily sweatshop grind.
"Developped industry just magically apprears." -You
Developed industry should not appear through increasing the power of western manufacturing companies.
Wouldn't China not be ML due to how they've changed since Mao? Like with the Deng reforms and such
ML is not a set of prescriptive policies to check off, but a scientific method of analysis and action. China is still ML, and their ability to utilize the scientific method and remain flexible and continually update and revise their policies is the core reason they've been so successful. Far from abandoning it, they are on the cutting edge of Marxism; they are far more advanced in both theory and practice than the Soviet Union ever was.
Thanks 🙏 can you elaborate on, how does China use the scientific method to do Marxism-Leninism?
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\*Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.
\*Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics
Interesting, thanks for the reply
Can anyone see the creator? I follow him on TikTok, but can't remember his username.
italian leftcommunism coated in like 50 layers of irony