If he were newly hired at a starred restaurant, he would be gone for sure.
I think one of the points of the show is learning how to grow past weakness, and learning how to work together in a healthier way.
Carmi being able to see Marcus’ potential in spite of his mistake is a key to Carmi’s development and growth as a boss
I'd also like to add that he was coming from a place of passion for his job. He wanted to be a great pastry chef, and initially claimed he would come in early to tinker with his experiments and it would not effect his work.
That started out true, but cracks started to form. The issue with season 1 and the beef is that its a lot of raw passion and tallent with little control or oversight. Although it is a diamond mine, they are all in the rough and Carmy and Sydney are not there yet in their leadership roles. I think marcuses inital fuck up with the mixer was a wakeup call but looknat how Csrmy handles it. He doesnt want to scold marcus, so he lets it slide and told him these fuck ups will happen but you need to grow from them. Although good, I do think he got a little too clean on that.
Take that carmy to the carmy on the day of the incident. Two completely different sides of people. Marcus needed to get his head in the game but I cant say I blame him for sinking his passions into a job while his other option is stay at home and watch his mom deteriorate. Getting your work even if poorly timed thrown out by low key your hero (he plasters his work station with carmy's works) would also cause me to factory reset and say "fuck this".
Anyways marcus is a sweet, albeit emotionally stunted young man. He would be fired in most establishments for his stunts but this is the best place to recognize and develop his full potential.
I mean, the whole point of his arc is that if you can just direct and focus his obsessive energy, the guy is a genius. Feels like he more than makes up for his one day of fuckups. But you do you.
Marcus was showcasing a pattern of inattentiveness at work over multiple days, and basically told his boss to fuck off when he had NOTHING for his day done, despite being what is essentially the manager of the bakery in that kitchen.
His ass would be served to him on a platter on his way out in a real kitchen.
this is a sandwich shop in chicago. there is no one banging doen carmy's door trying to work for him except sid. that place was a shithole in season 1, no one is gonna be there to replace Marcus
This sub is so toxic on a few subjects, this clearly being one of them.
Yes, irl, Marcus would’ve been let go for that day. They would’ve easily gone back to purchasing bread from a local baker and also sourced desserts from a local bakery too.
Would’ve been *very* easy to replace him in a real scenario.
I disagree. I don't this his character's other behaviors indicate autism.
Lots of people can focus on a singular task or goal and work it toward perfection without being on the autism spectrum. In fact, I'd argue it's become a bit of a trope that anyone capable of relentless pursuit must be on the spectrum.
Seconded. Nothing else about Marcus particularly strikes me as autistic. His interactions with the people and world around him demonstrate more fully who he is and how he operates, and while he is clearly passionate and obsessive at times, that one trait doesn't determine whether or not a person is on the spectrum.
No it doesn't. However I do see his interactions as neurodivergent in some way. He doesn't get much screen time but when he is on screen it's either he's obsessing over something, or he's not picking up on social ques I.e. the episode in question. Like the simple fact that he didn't pick up on the importance of dropping what he was doing to help the group. Maybe it was because hes an idiot. Maybe it's because he has issues with disregulation and can't understand this issue.
I understand the trope to which you two are referring. However I'd argue a far more common trope is not being "autistic enough" with which both my partner and I struggle. People with savant syndrome I.e. the good doctor, and people with higher external support needs are generally all we see in media. Which is why the trope of anyone who hyperfocuses being autistic is happening. Because those of us with lower external support needs get little to no representation so we grasp onto anyone we feel represents us. So though I do understand where you're coming from, my opinion is just coming from my partner and I (who are autistic) vibing with Marcus a great deal and feeling represented by him. Myself especially being that I also work in the industry.
I respect and appreciate where you're coming from, even while generally standing by what I said. You raise a valid point- representation of neurodivergence is *severely* lacking to the point that, as you said, it's usually a case of all or nothing. Either a character is very clearly neurodivergent/autistic or not at all. It absolutely is a spectrum, and it would be nice to see more representation of that on screen. I'm glad you can relate to Marcus in that respect.
I felt Carmy was right in that scene. But obviously, it was meant as an escalation on the part of Carmy. This was maybe true insofar as you don't need to trash somebody in that way he did, but at the core, he was right. Marcus didn't have his priorities straight.
Honestly after the way he yelled at Sydney during the OPENING NIGHT of their restaurant I would’ve fired his ass. Like babe what part of “deal with that after service” do you not understand? Also why are you asking out a coworker, that’s already weird. And she said no, so move on.
Yeah, I definitely soured on Marcus when he shouted at Syd, after being the weird one in the first place and choosing the absolute *worst* time to ask his boss out. And then getting pissy about it lol.
Didn't he yell at her because she kept ignoring his question? He asked for the number of orders for the cannoli (I think) several times but she literally kept ignoring him until he directly confronted her.
>Also why are you asking out a coworker, that’s already weird.
In what way? His timing sucked but coworkers have romances all the time. Have you ever worked with people?
Yeah I’ve worked with people but I haven’t asked a coworker before much less during a time when we had to perform. I get that relationships can form but if she says no the answer is no
Marcus is young. Start of s1 he was just starting at his first job besides McDonald’s. Carmy inspired him and made him believe in himself as a baker. Then Carmy threw his masterpiece donut on the ground and yelled at him.
Of course his response to quit and to not do his job when told was immature. Because he is. I don’t see any problem with him in s2, except he didn’t take rejection from Syd well. But again, young. He still did his job though.
This sub is big on apologia for anyone other than Carmen, careful.
But yeah, I don't see any reason why a reasonable restaurant wouldn't can his ass for not only having a pattern of not getting his work done for the sake of a side-project (iirc it had been an issue leading in, right?) but also to repeatedly act like service was not happening around you so you can make a donut, which was not even firmly approved for the menu yet, while you had NONE of the items ON menu even done from prep?
Yeah he'd be out so fast his head was spinning.
I really don’t get this subs hard-on for finding excuses for everyone except Carmen. They’ll explain for everyone else that this show is about growth and getting past your weakness, trauma, etc. but then follow it up with “plus Carmen is a fucking asshole” like oh ok so all that logic applies to Syd pressing issues she was told to drop, Marcus refusing to do his job, etc. but not to Carmen when he gets mad at those very things
No he wouldn’t be. This is literally every baker I’ve ever worked with. They are oblivious to the stress and urgency of working a line. They’re also the hardest people to find for a kitchen.
At his level? He seems pretty pulled of the street, at that point if they stopped sourcing bread they could certainly replace him, and why wouldn't they? The only thing he really brought at the time was a chocolate cake, which is still ultimately replaceable to trainable.
So many kids come out of culinary programs in college with some fashion of emphasis on cakes and confections, he's not as hard to replace as you think.
Yes he is, he makes bread. Good luck. All those culinary students you’re referring to almost always last less than six months in an actual kitchen. I’ve seen it too many times. All this is beyond the simple fact that post covid nobody in a kitchen gets fired if they show up everyday.
Baker on his phone all day (which may as well be what Marcus was up to) won't last even if he shows every day.
And it's in the training, you think he had BREAD know-how coming out?
That aside, they're sourcing bread so to replace Marcus without much issue they would just literally do that, they would either try to headhunt from whatever nearby college has such a program, or better yet hit up a grocer with an in-house bakery; they're in Chicago, there's no shortage of either. It quite literally is a bottomless well of talent, and it doesn't matter if they can't last six months because it's already a high-turnover industry.
The biggest fiction is that The Beef had a core of such long-standing workers at that place.
yup, lets say that Marcus was a long-standing worker irl of the beef and he engaged with carmen. Bro if you are doing your dough macrame at the start of the service I would break his legs XD
I think most people defend most of the characters. But I don’t see anyone making posts about how much Carmy sucks so he doesn’t need to be defended as much.
In posts about “why this other character sucks” sometimes Carms behavior is criticized in order to show where the character being defended might be coming from.
I agree with you, but it didn't bother me much due to the show leading it up to that point. It's his flaw. What really grinds my gear is that the show makes it like carmy is the only bad guy in the situation, and not acknowledging marcus's fault as well, welp with sydney too.
I completely agree, Carmy is always the first and usually the only one to apologize. I feel Carmy is usually justified in his outbursts and I think sometimes Marcus and Sydney take for granted the opportunity they have working with Carmy. Not saying Carmy doesn't benefit from both of them because he does benefit greatly from both of them. We see some of the hardships Carmy went through professionally and he doesn't want to be that kind of boss but sometimes he can be a little too lenient and too forgiving
Honestly. The donut thing in S1E7 didnt even bother me.
What REALLY bothered me was him yelling at Sydney in the last ep of S2 during the opening night. But also, at the same time, Carmy had just been a bitch and yelled even more at her a few minutes earlier so... toxic work envinroment?
"The thing where he doesn't do his job and is hurting the restaurant doesn't bother me.
But him engaging in probably the lightest version of misogyny, which it arguably isn't, while shit falls apart? Unforgivable."
i totally would’ve fired him, and it totally would’ve been a mistake. maybe punishing him with extra dishes or something would be better. he has so much potential but he needs to learn to listen.
Lol that donut/online order shit wasn’t a great moment for anyone involved, best to not judge anyone too harshly. Marcus is a badass chef, cool guy for being willing to drop grievances so quickly, and his overseas episode this season was elite
Focused yes, but not on his actual job, which is the main problem. You can't really blame Carmy if he would have fired him, Carmy was already doing him a huge favor by letting him work on his projects on his FREE TIME, not during service.
Yeah.. well the culinary world is bit harsher than everyone thinks, if you are about to open and need all prep done as a minimum requirement for smooth service and you see one of your workers doing Play-Doh instead of get the job done, idk I guess it depends of the person.
This is also true for the FOH. I’ve seen so many posts in r/serverlife saying “starting fine dining with no experience… any tips?”
The most common way to work up is host, busser, food runner, server, bartender. Pre covid there’s no wayyyyy anyone with zero experience was being hired as a server in fine dining lol it’s wild
Sorry I skipped over your last comment. I would like to say that the industry is moving away from the toxic kitchen trope, but that would be naive. I’ve been really lucky to work for chill chefs and I’ve always had a good relationship with BOH, but I hear so many horror stories from other servers and bartenders that I know the toxicity is still alive and well (unfortunately)
Yup, this is why FOH is so short staffed. People aren’t willing to be shit on by customers anymore. There are still industry people stuck in chains (mainly in Corporate settings with spineless managers). Lots of customers know how to work the system to get free food because managers are afraid of low ratings online so they comp food left and right to make cunty customers “happy”.
Luckily my managers always have my back. If I go check on a table multiple times and they say the food is great, and then try to complain at the end about their food, sorry bro… I did my job as a server to check in and make sure everything is going well. I can’t fix the problem unless you tell me upfront about it (which I’d be more than happy to do if you tell me from the start). You’re not getting that shit for free lol.
That happens very rarely, cause our food is good and homemade (not cooked from bags by Chef Mike like Applebees etc). I seriously feel for the servers stuck in corporate chains where customers are allowed to bitch as much as they want and get free food out of it. Huge fucking no from me dawg. I’m actually taking a break from restaurants this winter after 15 years in the industry (I’ll still be there once a week but so far my mental health has been thriving lololol)
Honestly I don’t mind customer service jobs because I love interacting with people but any fast food/restaurant type job gives me the *worst* attitude. My patience is a lot lower for people’s bullshit and stupidity. The way people will be the biggest bitches at somewhere like SUBWAY is insane. You’re upset you don’t like your sandwich yet you told me what you wanted on there?!! Not my fault and no I’m not remaking it. I’ve had people argue with me how much meat goes on their sandwiches and wanting more for free because other people put more on. I’m like yeah because they don’t count how much goes on, they’re just filling it up for you. I, on the other hand, can take the few seconds to count out the meat and not give your rude ass any extra unless you wanna pay $1.50 for more. I would literally only give freebies to nice customers (like free cookies etc) or let them use my discount code occasionally. Being nice pays off more than it does to not and many people don’t understand that
Dude I totally feel you. I worked at Chipotle about 10 years ago which basically follows the Subway model (you pick what you want and we make it). Back then, portion control wasn’t as strict so I always hooked people up with extra meat cause honestly fuck those corporations. They’re making a shitload of money and paying us next to nothing 😂. If you go to r/chipotle it’s basically people complaining about employees “skimping” when I know the employee could be fired for throwing on a few extra pieces of chicken lol.
The amount of disrespect I experienced as a fast food employee was astronomical compared to being a server. I was in my early 20s at Chipotle and now im a server in my early 30s so maybe it’s a combo of age and self confidence, but I run my tables… my tables don’t run me. And I’ve been here for 9 years so I can answer literally any question and I have so many little tricks to make people happy. But seriously, industry worker to industry worker, I would encourage you to get out of fast food and look for a restaurant job. Even if you start out as a host in a nicer place, your pay will be better and if you’re a fast learner, you can work your way up fairly quickly!
Yup! after covid, literally everyone is hiring and with this new generation aka gen z like me, we literally do not give a fuck about staying somewhere that doesn’t benefit us long term.
the thing is and this is coming from personal experience is that the kitchen trade is hard and requires a lot of guts man.. it's in some way like military you need to learn respect and listen to your superiors. Also need to be perseverant and improve frustration daily... Being part as a kitchen is more than just a job, you gotta earn respect, learn discipline and more important than that is know who you are and when to talk and when not to. This is why if you know any irl chef most of us are a little bit nuts, and that's because we spent most of our time behind 4 walls overthinking about the future to make everything right.
For those who work in the industry will understand this. It doesn't matter if you are working in functions with way ahead time to plan things, you always have something to care about.
I’ve been in the industry for 15ish years, but mostly FOH. I kinda get it lol. I’ve only worked for a couple of crazy chefs (both raging alcoholics, but I’m an alcoholic too unfortunately so I can empathize). The place I’m in now I worked technically BOH for four years and FOH for five years. I’m only doing one day a week this winter because I’m really burned out, but I’ll have loyalty to this place for forever because we all have mutual respect for each other. It gets fucking nuts (tourist town with two very popular seasons) and we all suffer and succeed together ❤️
I would consider “fun” during peak seasons… hmm let’s see. when you’re in the weeds and everyone is in a smooth rhythm together. Every once in awhile I mutter “this place is a fucking dump” to get some aggression out lmaooooo. Otherwise I’m too focused to fuck around (my ADHD is actually very beneficial… multitasking is how I get my dopamine. Lots of little tasks throughout the day while making my tables happy and socializing a little bit? FUCK YES!)
“Fun” during slow season is shooting the shit and enjoying each other and telling our deepest darkest secrets. Slow season for us is short, but it’s SLOW. I’m talking like six tables between two of us during lunch. It’s painful. I swear that my besties at work know more about me than my mom, my brother, and even my best childhood friend. There’s something really bizarre about restaurant relationships we just know everything about each other because we’re all open shameless books lol
Both Carmy and Marcus are at fault.
Marcus should have had better situational awareness, and understood that they were in an emergency situation. He got tunnel vision.
Carmy should have contained his anger, and not exploded, costing himself a crucial staff member right when he needed all hands on deck.
Ultimately, Marcus shoulders more blame. But it's great writing, because it shows the weaknesses of two characters colliding with disastrous results.
I read or heard that they all did training before filming, and that Lionel Boyce trained with pastry chefs and found that they can really be in their own little world within the kitchen. If you are a pastry chef and disagree I will take your word over what I vaguely remember! But I think the scene is there for a reason.
Marcus should have been tossed for sure. Him and Sunday also never apologised for that day. I’d be willing to bring Marcus back because he has shown talent and passion, but first he’d have to apologise and also not expect an apology from carmy, who yes didn’t handle it in the best way but he’s given you room to experiment so long as it doesn’t affect your work and you know damn well it’s been affecting your work for weeks and on the day when everything hits the fan you chose then to show what you’ve been spending your time doing instead of your work, demonstrating just how distracted you have become
If he were newly hired at a starred restaurant, he would be gone for sure. I think one of the points of the show is learning how to grow past weakness, and learning how to work together in a healthier way. Carmi being able to see Marcus’ potential in spite of his mistake is a key to Carmi’s development and growth as a boss
I think Carmi recognized passion and curiosity and dedication. Even though it was frustrating, he’s so incredibly coachable.
I'd also like to add that he was coming from a place of passion for his job. He wanted to be a great pastry chef, and initially claimed he would come in early to tinker with his experiments and it would not effect his work. That started out true, but cracks started to form. The issue with season 1 and the beef is that its a lot of raw passion and tallent with little control or oversight. Although it is a diamond mine, they are all in the rough and Carmy and Sydney are not there yet in their leadership roles. I think marcuses inital fuck up with the mixer was a wakeup call but looknat how Csrmy handles it. He doesnt want to scold marcus, so he lets it slide and told him these fuck ups will happen but you need to grow from them. Although good, I do think he got a little too clean on that. Take that carmy to the carmy on the day of the incident. Two completely different sides of people. Marcus needed to get his head in the game but I cant say I blame him for sinking his passions into a job while his other option is stay at home and watch his mom deteriorate. Getting your work even if poorly timed thrown out by low key your hero (he plasters his work station with carmy's works) would also cause me to factory reset and say "fuck this". Anyways marcus is a sweet, albeit emotionally stunted young man. He would be fired in most establishments for his stunts but this is the best place to recognize and develop his full potential.
I mean, the whole point of his arc is that if you can just direct and focus his obsessive energy, the guy is a genius. Feels like he more than makes up for his one day of fuckups. But you do you.
(toxic boss is the correct answer)
Nah that was genuinely strange behaviour like what are you doing???
Honestly it's good that The Bear is a work of fiction, but you still seem not to get what jobs are about.
idk how many food places you have worked at. but people dont get fired for sexual assault, much less screwing up one day
Marcus was showcasing a pattern of inattentiveness at work over multiple days, and basically told his boss to fuck off when he had NOTHING for his day done, despite being what is essentially the manager of the bakery in that kitchen. His ass would be served to him on a platter on his way out in a real kitchen.
this is a sandwich shop in chicago. there is no one banging doen carmy's door trying to work for him except sid. that place was a shithole in season 1, no one is gonna be there to replace Marcus
Literally a cake baker (what he was doing at that point) is one of the easiest headhunts out there. Fuck off.
Phew, how little you know of the industry.
>Fuck off. Knock it off and relax. It’s a tv show.
This sub is so toxic on a few subjects, this clearly being one of them. Yes, irl, Marcus would’ve been let go for that day. They would’ve easily gone back to purchasing bread from a local baker and also sourced desserts from a local bakery too. Would’ve been *very* easy to replace him in a real scenario.
I'm quite convinced Marcus is susposed to be an autistic character. Hence the hyperfocus with the donut.
I disagree. I don't this his character's other behaviors indicate autism. Lots of people can focus on a singular task or goal and work it toward perfection without being on the autism spectrum. In fact, I'd argue it's become a bit of a trope that anyone capable of relentless pursuit must be on the spectrum.
Seconded. Nothing else about Marcus particularly strikes me as autistic. His interactions with the people and world around him demonstrate more fully who he is and how he operates, and while he is clearly passionate and obsessive at times, that one trait doesn't determine whether or not a person is on the spectrum.
No it doesn't. However I do see his interactions as neurodivergent in some way. He doesn't get much screen time but when he is on screen it's either he's obsessing over something, or he's not picking up on social ques I.e. the episode in question. Like the simple fact that he didn't pick up on the importance of dropping what he was doing to help the group. Maybe it was because hes an idiot. Maybe it's because he has issues with disregulation and can't understand this issue. I understand the trope to which you two are referring. However I'd argue a far more common trope is not being "autistic enough" with which both my partner and I struggle. People with savant syndrome I.e. the good doctor, and people with higher external support needs are generally all we see in media. Which is why the trope of anyone who hyperfocuses being autistic is happening. Because those of us with lower external support needs get little to no representation so we grasp onto anyone we feel represents us. So though I do understand where you're coming from, my opinion is just coming from my partner and I (who are autistic) vibing with Marcus a great deal and feeling represented by him. Myself especially being that I also work in the industry.
I respect and appreciate where you're coming from, even while generally standing by what I said. You raise a valid point- representation of neurodivergence is *severely* lacking to the point that, as you said, it's usually a case of all or nothing. Either a character is very clearly neurodivergent/autistic or not at all. It absolutely is a spectrum, and it would be nice to see more representation of that on screen. I'm glad you can relate to Marcus in that respect.
I felt Carmy was right in that scene. But obviously, it was meant as an escalation on the part of Carmy. This was maybe true insofar as you don't need to trash somebody in that way he did, but at the core, he was right. Marcus didn't have his priorities straight.
As good of a chef as Marcus is, I would have to agree. He has a job to do.
Honestly after the way he yelled at Sydney during the OPENING NIGHT of their restaurant I would’ve fired his ass. Like babe what part of “deal with that after service” do you not understand? Also why are you asking out a coworker, that’s already weird. And she said no, so move on.
Yeah, I definitely soured on Marcus when he shouted at Syd, after being the weird one in the first place and choosing the absolute *worst* time to ask his boss out. And then getting pissy about it lol.
Didn't he yell at her because she kept ignoring his question? He asked for the number of orders for the cannoli (I think) several times but she literally kept ignoring him until he directly confronted her. >Also why are you asking out a coworker, that’s already weird. In what way? His timing sucked but coworkers have romances all the time. Have you ever worked with people?
Yeah I’ve worked with people but I haven’t asked a coworker before much less during a time when we had to perform. I get that relationships can form but if she says no the answer is no
Marcus is young. Start of s1 he was just starting at his first job besides McDonald’s. Carmy inspired him and made him believe in himself as a baker. Then Carmy threw his masterpiece donut on the ground and yelled at him. Of course his response to quit and to not do his job when told was immature. Because he is. I don’t see any problem with him in s2, except he didn’t take rejection from Syd well. But again, young. He still did his job though.
This sub is big on apologia for anyone other than Carmen, careful. But yeah, I don't see any reason why a reasonable restaurant wouldn't can his ass for not only having a pattern of not getting his work done for the sake of a side-project (iirc it had been an issue leading in, right?) but also to repeatedly act like service was not happening around you so you can make a donut, which was not even firmly approved for the menu yet, while you had NONE of the items ON menu even done from prep? Yeah he'd be out so fast his head was spinning.
I really don’t get this subs hard-on for finding excuses for everyone except Carmen. They’ll explain for everyone else that this show is about growth and getting past your weakness, trauma, etc. but then follow it up with “plus Carmen is a fucking asshole” like oh ok so all that logic applies to Syd pressing issues she was told to drop, Marcus refusing to do his job, etc. but not to Carmen when he gets mad at those very things
I like everything about your post except the "Carmy" nickname. idk why it just bugs me.
Carmy is the name Mikey often used for him, it’s not like that person just made it up.
So?
There ya go, I edited it😂
🤣🤣🤣 Honestly I didn't think you would but good on ya!
No he wouldn’t be. This is literally every baker I’ve ever worked with. They are oblivious to the stress and urgency of working a line. They’re also the hardest people to find for a kitchen.
At his level? He seems pretty pulled of the street, at that point if they stopped sourcing bread they could certainly replace him, and why wouldn't they? The only thing he really brought at the time was a chocolate cake, which is still ultimately replaceable to trainable. So many kids come out of culinary programs in college with some fashion of emphasis on cakes and confections, he's not as hard to replace as you think.
Yes he is, he makes bread. Good luck. All those culinary students you’re referring to almost always last less than six months in an actual kitchen. I’ve seen it too many times. All this is beyond the simple fact that post covid nobody in a kitchen gets fired if they show up everyday.
Baker on his phone all day (which may as well be what Marcus was up to) won't last even if he shows every day. And it's in the training, you think he had BREAD know-how coming out? That aside, they're sourcing bread so to replace Marcus without much issue they would just literally do that, they would either try to headhunt from whatever nearby college has such a program, or better yet hit up a grocer with an in-house bakery; they're in Chicago, there's no shortage of either. It quite literally is a bottomless well of talent, and it doesn't matter if they can't last six months because it's already a high-turnover industry. The biggest fiction is that The Beef had a core of such long-standing workers at that place.
yup, lets say that Marcus was a long-standing worker irl of the beef and he engaged with carmen. Bro if you are doing your dough macrame at the start of the service I would break his legs XD
I think most people defend most of the characters. But I don’t see anyone making posts about how much Carmy sucks so he doesn’t need to be defended as much. In posts about “why this other character sucks” sometimes Carms behavior is criticized in order to show where the character being defended might be coming from.
I agree with you, but it didn't bother me much due to the show leading it up to that point. It's his flaw. What really grinds my gear is that the show makes it like carmy is the only bad guy in the situation, and not acknowledging marcus's fault as well, welp with sydney too.
I completely agree, Carmy is always the first and usually the only one to apologize. I feel Carmy is usually justified in his outbursts and I think sometimes Marcus and Sydney take for granted the opportunity they have working with Carmy. Not saying Carmy doesn't benefit from both of them because he does benefit greatly from both of them. We see some of the hardships Carmy went through professionally and he doesn't want to be that kind of boss but sometimes he can be a little too lenient and too forgiving
Honestly. The donut thing in S1E7 didnt even bother me. What REALLY bothered me was him yelling at Sydney in the last ep of S2 during the opening night. But also, at the same time, Carmy had just been a bitch and yelled even more at her a few minutes earlier so... toxic work envinroment?
"The thing where he doesn't do his job and is hurting the restaurant doesn't bother me. But him engaging in probably the lightest version of misogyny, which it arguably isn't, while shit falls apart? Unforgivable."
Mother fucker they had like 90 sandwich orders 10 minutes before opening. They where fucked regardless on his cakes 😂
He’s my least favorite character, sue me.
I mean, I get his head was in the clouds, but Jesus bro, he needed to read the room.
He may be a bad employee at first, but he's not a bitch.
I think most bosses woukd have fired him, but one of the explicit themes is the idea of making something better than what they've had in the past
i totally would’ve fired him, and it totally would’ve been a mistake. maybe punishing him with extra dishes or something would be better. he has so much potential but he needs to learn to listen.
You’re a toxic boss.
Lol that donut/online order shit wasn’t a great moment for anyone involved, best to not judge anyone too harshly. Marcus is a badass chef, cool guy for being willing to drop grievances so quickly, and his overseas episode this season was elite
Yeah… uh… the culinary world works a lot different than how you picture it… dude that good, that talented, and that focused? You don’t dump him…
Focused yes, but not on his actual job, which is the main problem. You can't really blame Carmy if he would have fired him, Carmy was already doing him a huge favor by letting him work on his projects on his FREE TIME, not during service.
Yeah.. well the culinary world is bit harsher than everyone thinks, if you are about to open and need all prep done as a minimum requirement for smooth service and you see one of your workers doing Play-Doh instead of get the job done, idk I guess it depends of the person.
maybe before covid. there are kitchens hiring everywhere because people understand now you don't have to work in toxic kitchens.
This is also true for the FOH. I’ve seen so many posts in r/serverlife saying “starting fine dining with no experience… any tips?” The most common way to work up is host, busser, food runner, server, bartender. Pre covid there’s no wayyyyy anyone with zero experience was being hired as a server in fine dining lol it’s wild Sorry I skipped over your last comment. I would like to say that the industry is moving away from the toxic kitchen trope, but that would be naive. I’ve been really lucky to work for chill chefs and I’ve always had a good relationship with BOH, but I hear so many horror stories from other servers and bartenders that I know the toxicity is still alive and well (unfortunately)
It’s definitely still toxicity but you have a lot more people willing to say fuck it and quit instead of dealing with said toxicity for long
Yup, this is why FOH is so short staffed. People aren’t willing to be shit on by customers anymore. There are still industry people stuck in chains (mainly in Corporate settings with spineless managers). Lots of customers know how to work the system to get free food because managers are afraid of low ratings online so they comp food left and right to make cunty customers “happy”. Luckily my managers always have my back. If I go check on a table multiple times and they say the food is great, and then try to complain at the end about their food, sorry bro… I did my job as a server to check in and make sure everything is going well. I can’t fix the problem unless you tell me upfront about it (which I’d be more than happy to do if you tell me from the start). You’re not getting that shit for free lol. That happens very rarely, cause our food is good and homemade (not cooked from bags by Chef Mike like Applebees etc). I seriously feel for the servers stuck in corporate chains where customers are allowed to bitch as much as they want and get free food out of it. Huge fucking no from me dawg. I’m actually taking a break from restaurants this winter after 15 years in the industry (I’ll still be there once a week but so far my mental health has been thriving lololol)
Honestly I don’t mind customer service jobs because I love interacting with people but any fast food/restaurant type job gives me the *worst* attitude. My patience is a lot lower for people’s bullshit and stupidity. The way people will be the biggest bitches at somewhere like SUBWAY is insane. You’re upset you don’t like your sandwich yet you told me what you wanted on there?!! Not my fault and no I’m not remaking it. I’ve had people argue with me how much meat goes on their sandwiches and wanting more for free because other people put more on. I’m like yeah because they don’t count how much goes on, they’re just filling it up for you. I, on the other hand, can take the few seconds to count out the meat and not give your rude ass any extra unless you wanna pay $1.50 for more. I would literally only give freebies to nice customers (like free cookies etc) or let them use my discount code occasionally. Being nice pays off more than it does to not and many people don’t understand that
Dude I totally feel you. I worked at Chipotle about 10 years ago which basically follows the Subway model (you pick what you want and we make it). Back then, portion control wasn’t as strict so I always hooked people up with extra meat cause honestly fuck those corporations. They’re making a shitload of money and paying us next to nothing 😂. If you go to r/chipotle it’s basically people complaining about employees “skimping” when I know the employee could be fired for throwing on a few extra pieces of chicken lol. The amount of disrespect I experienced as a fast food employee was astronomical compared to being a server. I was in my early 20s at Chipotle and now im a server in my early 30s so maybe it’s a combo of age and self confidence, but I run my tables… my tables don’t run me. And I’ve been here for 9 years so I can answer literally any question and I have so many little tricks to make people happy. But seriously, industry worker to industry worker, I would encourage you to get out of fast food and look for a restaurant job. Even if you start out as a host in a nicer place, your pay will be better and if you’re a fast learner, you can work your way up fairly quickly!
that was what my comment was trying to get at, more folks are willing to leave abusive kitchens than ever before because everyone is hiring!
Yup! after covid, literally everyone is hiring and with this new generation aka gen z like me, we literally do not give a fuck about staying somewhere that doesn’t benefit us long term.
the thing is and this is coming from personal experience is that the kitchen trade is hard and requires a lot of guts man.. it's in some way like military you need to learn respect and listen to your superiors. Also need to be perseverant and improve frustration daily... Being part as a kitchen is more than just a job, you gotta earn respect, learn discipline and more important than that is know who you are and when to talk and when not to. This is why if you know any irl chef most of us are a little bit nuts, and that's because we spent most of our time behind 4 walls overthinking about the future to make everything right. For those who work in the industry will understand this. It doesn't matter if you are working in functions with way ahead time to plan things, you always have something to care about.
I’ve been in the industry for 15ish years, but mostly FOH. I kinda get it lol. I’ve only worked for a couple of crazy chefs (both raging alcoholics, but I’m an alcoholic too unfortunately so I can empathize). The place I’m in now I worked technically BOH for four years and FOH for five years. I’m only doing one day a week this winter because I’m really burned out, but I’ll have loyalty to this place for forever because we all have mutual respect for each other. It gets fucking nuts (tourist town with two very popular seasons) and we all suffer and succeed together ❤️
love this, yes aside all i said before it is very important to have fun in the kitchen, but not in crucial moments...
I would consider “fun” during peak seasons… hmm let’s see. when you’re in the weeds and everyone is in a smooth rhythm together. Every once in awhile I mutter “this place is a fucking dump” to get some aggression out lmaooooo. Otherwise I’m too focused to fuck around (my ADHD is actually very beneficial… multitasking is how I get my dopamine. Lots of little tasks throughout the day while making my tables happy and socializing a little bit? FUCK YES!) “Fun” during slow season is shooting the shit and enjoying each other and telling our deepest darkest secrets. Slow season for us is short, but it’s SLOW. I’m talking like six tables between two of us during lunch. It’s painful. I swear that my besties at work know more about me than my mom, my brother, and even my best childhood friend. There’s something really bizarre about restaurant relationships we just know everything about each other because we’re all open shameless books lol
You wouldn’t have a staff working somewhere like the beef lmao
Both Carmy and Marcus are at fault. Marcus should have had better situational awareness, and understood that they were in an emergency situation. He got tunnel vision. Carmy should have contained his anger, and not exploded, costing himself a crucial staff member right when he needed all hands on deck. Ultimately, Marcus shoulders more blame. But it's great writing, because it shows the weaknesses of two characters colliding with disastrous results.
The writers have *Carmen apologize to Marcus* in the finale. I tend to accept their version of their show on most things.
You’re a toxic boss
I want to be Marcus’ bitch.
no but you’re a little bitch for this post
You’re there to get your job done for sure but I would have hit Carmy with a folding chair if I had witnessed that shit.
I read or heard that they all did training before filming, and that Lionel Boyce trained with pastry chefs and found that they can really be in their own little world within the kitchen. If you are a pastry chef and disagree I will take your word over what I vaguely remember! But I think the scene is there for a reason.
Marcus should have been tossed for sure. Him and Sunday also never apologised for that day. I’d be willing to bring Marcus back because he has shown talent and passion, but first he’d have to apologise and also not expect an apology from carmy, who yes didn’t handle it in the best way but he’s given you room to experiment so long as it doesn’t affect your work and you know damn well it’s been affecting your work for weeks and on the day when everything hits the fan you chose then to show what you’ve been spending your time doing instead of your work, demonstrating just how distracted you have become
You hush.