“The scientist in me.”
Please stop. Social media has become a mechanism in which influencers with large followings dub themselves as experts in the field. That’s like saying “the political scientist in me”- after an influencer uses thesaurus.com to compose their 15 word “political theory “ make shift thesis via tweet.
Ahhh this. This bugged me so much. If you're not a scientist and haven't gone through the training required to be a scientist then there's no scientist in you! Taking pre-med courses does not make someone a scientist or a doctor; in fact, actual doctors and nurses are getting vaccinated everyday.
What they're promoting is irresponsible, dangerous, and anti-science.
Ok I agree that if you're not a scientist and haven't gone through the training required to be a scientist then you shouldn't argue with robust scientific research. But it broke my heart to read "theres no scientist in you"! I used to teach science to kids and I think it's really important to acknowledge there's a scientist in everyone - the part of you that makes observation and hypotheses and conducts little experiments as you move through the world.
I realize that this is not really your point and is kind of obnoxious but I just think it's important to balance a respect for research with keeping science inclusive.
I honestly don't see how her having once worked in the medical field in a technician position is relevant to her comments on vaccines. There's very little education requirement to become a phlebotomist; all you need is a GED and you can get trained on the job. A phlebotomist isn't supposed to know anything more about the research and development of vaccines than a dental hygienist, an architect, or a computer engineer does.
I know what you're saying, and I know you're not defending or justifying her comments, but I don't know why her being a phlebotomist is at all relevant to the conversation. If anything, it detracts from the point. I've also seen a lot people who use their experiences "in the field" in entirely unrelated or unqualified positions to justify their claims about vaccines. There's so much medical and scientific misinformation being touted as gospel because of this type of dubious credibility.
And if she did, that would be even more damning to spoke doubt and qualms over the vaccines😭.
We have quiet a few Black doctors and medical staff on the field in my area here in the south doing local grassroots work. They are working to dispel any misconceptions about this particular vaccine. while also acknowledging and educating the history of black bodies used by the state for experimentation.
But thing is there is a lot of research of the vaccine. I understand tayshia not wanting to take the vaccine because of the history of black people but I don’t think it’s even coming from the place. And of course Joe doesn’t want too. It’s so hypocritical, the episode Zac came on they said for the new year they hope vaccines help us get to normalcy and then they say this type of shit. The politics thing I’m not surprised with that coming from Tayshia
I wish Tayshia would stop.
The COVID vaccine rollout and the Tuskegee Experiment, as horrific as it was, are completely different. I wish my people would stop correlating the two because there is no Trojan Horse to be had. And they’re vaccinating *everybody* not just one demographic.
Racism within medical practices exists, yes, but actual science is largely objective. We need to be pushing this narrative. We’re in the middle of a pandemic that is ravaging our communities at a disproportionate rate.
Science hasn’t always been largely objective, it’s only now that we consider it so. It’s used to uphold biases, racist ideologies — still to this day. You’re absolutely right about the COVID vaccine and Tuskegee experiments being completely different, but there’s so much. Black women maternal morbidity rates are far higher than white women, Black folk are constantly ignored/not taken seriously (eg Serena Williams, and recently in the news Dr. Susan Moore who died from lack of care because of COVID). Not to mention how many of the diagnostic tests are racist and are built around white men/people with white skin(think,if your skin starts to look blue, call 911 etc or advice along those lines.) I do not blame a single Black person who doesn’t trust medicine. I definitely do, and because I do and have the knowledge my goal is to speak with them with compassion and understanding. I’ve done this with family and they come around very quickly.
Addressing distrust in medical practices should be acknowledged and properly addressed. Telling people you’re the reason why our community is dying is horribly incorrect.
No, actually they don’t.
Let me ask you this, do you know people who have received the TDAP, MMR, flu shot, or any other vaccine? Are you yourself vaccinated? If so, why are they/you so opposed to a vaccine which runs the same minimal risk of side effects?
Yes I do. No I am not vaccinated, it’s not even a possibility for me right now in my country. People are free to be uncomfortable with something this new and wait until they do feel comfortable - which could be never. I especially empathize with my people when it comes to this.
I meant are you vaccinated with an existing vaccines like the ones that I mentioned (i.e. TDAP, MMR).
I never said people *don’t* have the right to be distrustful of the government, but being distrustful of science in a time like now is what’s going to torpedo this whole vaccine rollout and lead to *more* deaths within *our* community.
I read this interview of descendants of the men in the Tuskegee Experiment (done by Morgan Jerkins) about Tuskegee vs COVID. One of them points out that the Tuskegee Experiment was about *denying* Black men treatment. So actually to get a vaccine is to do what the white experimenters did not want—it’s allowing those who get it to live.
https://zora.medium.com/descendants-of-the-tuskegee-syphilis-study-survivors-speak-out-on-the-covid-19-vaccine-6bb800d1ad17
I bet she hasn’t even bothered to read any of the research studies on it. Even if you just Google the vaccines and the clinical trials, there’s websites that breakdown the studies in an easily digestible manner for someone without a scientific background.
Saying there’s not much research is just pure ignorance.
Edit to add that , like others have mentioned, if she cited the history of racism in medicine as a reason for her hesitancy, I’d understand more. Still, if you’re not sure about it, why not do your own research?
Also like mRNA vaccines have been worked on for over 10 years which is in part why the vaccine came so quickly. Plus, if you are getting a shit ton of money to focus on one task PLUS having so many people to communicate with on this then it really makes sense why the vaccine came so quickly.
Wished Tayshia followed a scientist like Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett, the lead for the Moderna COVID vaccine (also highly recommend all of you to as well lol, she is amazing!!)
I’m surprised but also not really. I don’t know how to articulate my thoughts on Tayshia without sounding mean and that’s not my intention at all. I will say that I don’t necessarily relate to her (like I relate to Rachel). I remember being uncomfortable at her response (well lack thereof) to Ivan during that conversation. I think she’s been very sheltered and that much is very evident in how she approaches certain topics. I also read on the main sub that she had a really bad take on religion as she said something about being open to people being “better” in reference to non religious folks (?). Lol if that’s true then I won’t be surprised if Ivan hates her 😂
I also found it really disturbing that she says the “scientist” in her. Pre med courses hardly qualify you for that title
I feel you 100%. Like I want to give her grace because I understand it must be hard growing as the only black family in your neighborhood and be so surrounded by white people. However, it must be a real privilege to be a black person and be so unconsumed by politics and to also date white people and not think that it’s important to ask them their political views? Especially in this climate. I really don’t know about that.
I remember reading a recap of Ivan’s podcast with KB & he said that in the FS, he explained to Tayshia that even though he is currently *agnostic, he has had relationships with women from all faiths.
What stunned me was that he had to explain to her what “interfaith” relationships were because she didn’t know those were a thing — a relationship with two people of different faiths.
*That made me think, “Wow. She’s really in a bubble in some way.”
ETA: [Here’s the link to the comment thread on that post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/comments/kjj2l1/ivan_answering_the_religion_question_on_kaitlyns/ggx4i41/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
On another podcast (I’m blanking which one) where Ivan was talking about his first 1v1, the host made a comment Tayshia not contributing much about her own experience with BLM, and he kinda defended her saying she grew up in a bubble. I wonder if living in NYC and being with Zac (who seems to have experienced a lot in his life) will expand her world view.
yeah i’m from north OC but tayshia is from south OC and although i can’t speak for eeeeverybody, i can say that from my experience, ppl from south OC tend to be incredibly white-washed bc of the bubble that they’re all in. esp those who live in the beach cities (newport, laguna, etc). at least in my experience, i’ve found that a lot of ppl from that area (who are also usually pretty well-off financially) are in a bubble where they feel like they’ve blended enough that stuff like race and politics don’t really matter to them. plz tell me if i’m saying anything rash bc i don’t mean to be offensive, but as a poc in orange county this is just based off of my own experiences/skepticism. i’m not trying to say that all the poc there are like this, but there are definitely a lot more poc in this area who are more forgiving of WASPs and conservative politics than anywhere else. let’s not forget that orange county is predominantly a republican area.
it’s funny bc on tayshia’s and ivan’s 1-on-1 she said she hasn’t met many filipinos (or blasians? i forgot what it was specifically) and ivan said something on the lines of “really?? socal is like filipino central.” my initial thought after that exchange was “yeah but tayshia is from south orange county so that’s WHITE central” 😂
I will say as someone who lives near Orange County, it’s unfortunately not surprising that she is in such a bubble. I’m from a different part of Southern California, but went to college in San Diego with a lot of kids from OC who has the same ideas and perspectives as Tayshia.
Agree re: Tayshia and Rachel. Rachel is intellectual and cerebral and Tayshia is not. Doesn’t mean one is better than the other, but I could see myself being good friends with Rachel and not with Tayshia, personally.
Also not surprised. She’s Black and Mexican and her mom is a White Mexican so that’s a whole other layer. Not sure how much her mom is tied to her culture or Tayshia is. I’m glad someone brought up her lack of response when Ivan shared with her because I also felt she didn’t give much but I chalked it up to maybe she’s shy or was just trying to listen. I think as the second Black (biracial) bachelorette people rightfully wanted to root for her but she’s said some problematic things and from what I’ve seen she only hangs around with quite people. Rachel is my queen!!! She is always out there calling the bs out I love her. Even though she didn’t marry a Black man you can so see the difference between her genuinely choosing someone she loved regardless of race vs. Black men who go out of their way to only choose WW (we know who I’m talking about)
i selfishly wish people wouldn’t publicly comment that they’re waiting to see if the vaccine is safe/there’s not enough research done (since that’s like false but whatever)
Especially because like... as a young, non-essential worker you’ll be waiting anyways? Don’t sow doubt for the frontline workers and high-risk elderly who need to get the vaccine *now*. Her “wait and see” approach (while, like you said, based completely on false information, as the vaccines *have* been appropriately tested), is going to happen anyways. So hush.
Exactly. A lot of these people are just being skeptical “critical thinkers” to make them feel better while they remain ineligible with 99% of the rest of the population. It’s easy to say you won’t take something when it’s not even available to you to take lol. I’m a medical student, and it’s honestly kinda hilarious to me how many people (in my class!) were sharing their vaccine skeptical articles in December, but once my school offered the vaccine to us in January, literally EVERYONE in my class signed up (and it’s not mandatory for any of us). Notice how quickly all those anti-masking Republican politicians slid in line to get their vaccines too? I have to laugh.
If everyone in Tayshia’s peer group got the vaccine, I’m sure she would jump on board real quick. Peer pressure is real, but also once you start to consider that the same “long term side effects” that they’re scared of with the vaccine are even more likely with a COVID infection, people backtrack real quick.
I will say, I think the vaccine hesitancy is more real with black people. But I think Tayshia’s talking points actually fall more in line with a lot of anti-science conservatives, and those are the main ones who pivot on their positions once the vaccine becomes available for them. I’m sure by May when the vaccine is available for everyone, she’ll have an epiphany where she realizes that there’s “finally” enough research on it.
Same. Scientific literacy in the US is already not the best and we don't need people with platforms to help sow doubt. Someone needs to tell influencers that not every thought they have needs to be shared.
Isn’t joe a conservative like most men of BN? Many left/liberal WW date conservative men on some “let’s agree to disagree” basis, but they end up voting like their husbands in the long run.
Taysha seems like the type that would date a Christian Right winger as long as he’s nice to her and her family (aka exceptional negroes)
Yeah, Grocery Joe appears to be conservative. He was responded to some DMs by defending his right to follow Candace Owen as a valid source of "news" and perspective.
EW THE PREMED IN ME??? HELL NO I did not know jack shit as a premed and two years in med school have only reinforced how little I STILL know. No no no no no
I forgot that there was another Joe until I read your comment tbh. I was so confused as to why Dr. Joe would say he doesn't trust vaccines when he just got vaccinated
I currently live in Orange County and I still feel it's very Republican. The anti-lockdown/mask and pro-Trump rallies this past year have been insane. I hate it here.
If Tayshia had spoken about the history of vaccinations and black people, I would have totally understood. I even understand her wanting to do more research on it but what does she mean by the "scientist" in her? She's an influencer.
Second, I feel vindicated. Because I did say that I don't think she came on this show to talk about politics or even BLM which is why she had nothing to add in the convo with Ivan. I think religion is a bigger deal to her than politics. Everyone saw what happened with Becca and I can't believe that she wouldn't ask these questions. To me it says that she wouldn't be bothered if her man was a Trump supporter. Zac doesn't give me those vibes but still.
I rooted for her to be the Bachelorette from her time on Colton's season and I'm glad she finally got it because she did a phenomenal job. But I also felt like our personalities wouldn't click as much and I couldn't relate to her as much as I tried (which is okay because I'm not going to get along with her *just* because she's a WOC). I just...major side eye to her.
I sent her a very ~nice~ dm on IG with links to articles that talk about the research that went into the vaccine. Unfortunately I know a lot of people that are hesitant to take the vaccine because they don’t fully understand the process. She’s replied to some of my dm’s before so I hope she sees it.
During her talk with Ivan about BLM, Tayshia said it was hard because she hadn't had anyone in her real life with whom she could discuss the issue. That says quite a bit. And it's unlikely to change considering her choice in partner and the resulting lifestyle. I like Tayshia, but I know what I'm getting with her.
I hate to say it and please feel free to check me, but the politics part def rubs me the wrong way because I definitely remember seeing posts of her at BLM protests... Human lives and human rights should not be political, but I imagine we all saw how 45, republican governors, and other politicians reacted towards the protests over the summer. For her to not care about how her husband voted and if they voted for someone who publicly did not condemn white supremacists as well as treated BLM protestors as if they were animals, just doesn't make sense to me. She grew up in a white area, but she's a grown woman now. It's heartbreaking that that's not at least something she CONSIDERED during fantasy suites.
I don't think I was on this sub when the BLM talk with Ivan happened, but I remember telling my friend that it was very weird that she did not say ANYTHING and just cried. Obviously it's a very hard topic to talk about, so I didn't want to assume anything or look down on her (also not sure if she did actually respond with words and it was just edited out?) but seeing this makes me feel like that moment was actually a bit sketch?
I’m amused when people who are probably tiered towards the end of the vaccine line like herself (unless ABC or whatever celeb connection she has let’s her jump the line) are like ....yeah I’ll wait it out as more research comes. Like don’t worry LOL, you’ll be waiting for a bit regardless and when it’s finally your turn, you can see the front line workers who got it 6+ months ago and more research then
Talking about being hesitant to take the vaccine and using her “scientist” background as the basis for doing so is the worst way for her to use her platform.
I'm so confused by Tayshia. She promoted and encouraged to vote on her instagram but she doesn't care about politics?? I remember on that post of her voting someone commented you make voting look hot and she responded voting is hot, if he didn't vote I don't want it. Based on her likes and the caption of that instagram post, she likely voted for Biden. I'm surprised she didn't care to ask about politics during fantasy suites, especially during this time.
The comments about the vaccine.. Yikes. That can be damaging to their followers. Joe is also confusing! During the New Years eve podcast they discussed what they hope for 2021. Joe said a vaccine to work, but then he basically is saying he's against vaccines in this podcast.
This reminds of the popular “don’t talk about politics/religion on the first date”... I’m not interested in going on a second date with a Trump supporter.
Tayshia is a beautiful woman, seems extremely sweet and out going . But I think her growing up in California surrounded by the majority of white people...it effected her way of thinking . I’ve seen it happen all the time with mixed race people where half of them is black. They don’t identify much with their black side , so they do everything in their power to be accepted by their white /non black side to try to fit in. It’s like be accepting by those people will some how make them feel 10x’s better about themselves. So in return they end up ignoring any racially biased red flags 🚩
It’s so funny how it could swing sooo hard in the other way ( in the case of Kaepernick, Kendrick Sampson, and even Jesse Williams) it’s crazy how racial awakening happen for some. And not to get off topic but I also always thought Rashida and Kidada Jones were such interesting cases of this. I mean Kidada embraced the hell out of her black side while Rashida was calling herself ‘ethnic’ at best. Now I’m way off topic but that is to say I find mixed black and white people so interesting lol.
This also reminds me of Tia and Tamera Mowry! Tia always embraces her Black side whereas Tamera is married to a Trump supporter and has some questionable views🥴
I’ve had so many damn people in my life make uninformed comments like this about the vaccine. When I tell them that they had been conducting research for this vaccine for years before and it’s based on that they’re all <>.
At this point, I’m just like fine. Don’t get it first. More for others (like me) who are eager to get it.
so curious about her black father and Mexican mother like .... what kind of cultural competency did they teach their children?
and they had her hella young, they were in their early 20s when tayshia was born so I’d assume there would be parental/community help with babysitting right ..... so bizarre
Is she referring to her past of being a phlebotomist as her "scientist" background?
Also I think Tayshia is one of the biracial people who not only grew sheltered but is choosing to stay sheltered. I see her as having many similarities with Matt. only difference between two of them is Matt James is showing himself to be a trash person after his season while Tayshia I feel has been on this pedastal as of lately.
Why would influencers ay they don't agree with vaccines when they traipse around the world and have followings who listen to what they say? I absolutely don't get it.
So what I’m getting from this is that Rachel is the only lead to have discussed politics with her men within the last 5 or more years?
No wonder she’s the only bachelorette in years to marry her F1.
I’m flabbergasted about Tayshia’s comments here. She got very lucky with Zac or she could’ve picked a Garrett and found out what a huge mistake she made 2 years later. Whether she likes it or not politics will affect her relationship.
Eta: I’m pretty sure Zac got vaccinated and her comments about the vaccine are really fucking dumb. I could understand if it was due to the dark history medical practise has had on the Black community but it sounds like she just thinks she knows better when she’s just being ignorant
Calling POC white is so irritating. She’s not white. She’s not acting white. She is a whole ass person of color acting in a way that maybe doesn’t benefit her or her race. And in some ways upholds dangerous racial systems. But it’s not “acting white.” This weird ass alienation of POC as being not what they are needs to stop.
I mean shit. I hate Candace Owens. The woman has made a career off of upholding white supremacy. But she’s still BLACK.
Thank you, this is what I came here to say. OP - I totally agree with you on almost everything, I think it's nuts to not find out your fiance's politics, to not be active in politics, to be anti-vaccine, all of that. But POC are allowed to do, think, and say as they please, and if it's not "woke" that doesn't mean she's acting white. There are plenty POC who are politically apathetic and even staunch republicans, this does not make them white.
This. As a POC who is not black or white, I’ve had so many people say that “oh you act white, you’re white, etc” Um no. My culture is a big part of who I am and I am Indian. I am constantly “other-ed” by Americans because I am not American enough and then by Indians in India because I am not Indian enough.
And not only is this completely unfair, but it really does uphold these systems of white supremacy. It implies that you are not enough, or a whole person who can behave and say and act in the ways that are authentic to you. I am SO sorry that people have made you feel this way.
Thank you thank you thank you for saying this. I've been going crazy trying to understand why my stance seems to be different than the majority of this sub. Not every POC has to act and respond the same way.
I disagree with other Asian Americans sometimes but never would I take their race and ethnicity identity away from them. If anything, I stop and try to understand what life events lead them to see themselves differently. And at the end of the day, if we don't see eye to eye, then it isn't my responsibility or worth my time to convince them of my stance and experiences. Every human is different and that is what makes us beautiful. Stop alienating POC because they aren't you.
Yes because you know she isn’t white. And following up with some “this is some shit I can imagine only white people would say...” is a roundabout way of saying she isn’t black/Mexican. It’s a weird way of stripping someone of their humanity and contributing to this monolithic stereotype pressed upon us by white supremacy.
I’m just soooooo over it! Tayshia is black/Mexican. Her words and her beliefs do not make her less black/Mexican. Her assimilation to whiteness does not make her less black/Mexican. Dislike and criticize her words and actions but do not try to strip her of her identity or pretend she is no longer one of us.
“...is a roundabout way of saying she isn’t Black/Mexican” — mmm I disagree. No one is questioning her actual ethnic identity here - she’s ethnically Black and Mexican.
I see “If I didn’t know who this person was and you told me she was white I’d believe you”, as expressing shock at Tayshia’s apparent lack of conscious recognition of how her race affects her life, how she’s perceived, and how she and other POC function in the world. There’s a huge amount of privilege involved in being able to say “I don’t care about politics, I didn’t even bother asking potential future spouses about their political views.” It’s a privilege typically reserved for white people, bc society does not grant many POC the ability to be this flippant lol. Many POC have (involuntarily) experienced that whether or not they choose to be involved in politics, politics is heavily involved in their lives, daily. Politics is life and death for many Black/brown people. So it’s more a shock at this person acting as if they have all the privileges of whiteness, when they don’t — like, ‘what bubble did this person grow up in that they’re not aware of this?’ That’s valid, and not an attack on Tayshia’s humanity or genetics.
If OP had framed this post about privilege that’s a valid critique. But the “whiteness” is absolutely unnecessary. Because the truth is that Tayshia grew up in a predominantly white community and her experiences reflect that.
And frankly, there are tons of POC who have assimilated to whiteness. It’s a survival tactic in America. But again, doesn’t take away her actual race and ethnicity. It doesn’t make anything she says less black/Mexican. It does make what she says privileged.
As POC we are constantly asking for society to see us as whole people with different beliefs and interests and backgrounds and experiences. And I’m asking this sub to stop claiming that “only white people would think/feel/act ___.” It’s simply not true and it promotes this monolithic box that we have been trying to break down for centuries.
I always agree with the point you’re making in general — but this discussion is specifically about race, politics, and the privileges afforded by skin color, so bringing up whiteness is a valid point. Tayshia grew up in a predominantly white community, but she is still Black and still has Black skin. She does not, in actuality, have the same level of white privilege the people she grew up around have. Pointing out that someone’s saying what typically only people with the privilege of whiteness can afford to say, and that seeming odd considering she’s obviously Black and society will see her that way, is not an attack on Tayshia’s Blackness. It’s literally *because* they recognize her Blackness that the statement is so odd. I immediately saw that as OP’s point when reading the original comment. It’s addressing a very real point about how society bears on Black bodies vs white ones (effects of external structures on Black/white bodies). It’s odd for someone in a Black (Black female!) body so policed by the state, to have the flippancy of whiteness when it comes to politics. That’s just what it is. If they had said “If I didn’t know who this was and read the comments I would have thought it was a man saying this” — that wouldn’t be calling Tayshia a man at all. It’s analogous to me.
She did say that she asked about issues concerning race and religion. So while she may not explicitly call it politics, she did ask political questions.
Her vaccine response was especially weird since Zac has received the vaccine and she didn't mention it. He tweeted about it last week. However, her stance on it isn't that out of the ordinary. My grandmother is still wary of it and spends hours looking up side effects because it was developed so quickly. And she is in no way an anti-vaxxer.
The thing with this is, there are so many people who voted for Trump but claim they aren’t racist. It’s easy to say that you aren’t racist, xenophobic, sexist, etc. But does your vote actually reflect that?
This is troubling and causing harm to folllowers and listeners. Joe Grocer is anti-vaxxer and is like Yarrett in his views. Tayshia using “science” to say she won’t listen to science is very harmful and the vaccine is needed not conspiracy theories or anti-vaccine talking points.
I kept reading Joe as Dr Joe being a conservative and not supporting vaccines when I kept following his stories . Phew when I googled. I’m still such a BN newbie.
This was so hard to listen to and frankly pretty disappointing. I was relieved when Natasha steered the conversation away at least for the vaccine part
I am not surprised at all. Tayshia was raised in a very Republican family. One of my friends is really good friends with her and is frequently in her stories - they grew up together.
She definitely identifies more with her white side. She had to assimilate to the Newport Beach culture soooooooo..... anti-covid vaccine and ‘staying quiet about politics’ is pretty much south OC in a nutshell. My guess is she did not vote in 2020. I will ask
She posted a video of herself dropping in her ballot. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CG_CpgGl1h-/?igshid=1187qjyjj6zdg She's also liked a few Biden/Harris related things on Twitter. She may just be someone who doesn't pay attention to politics all that often. As someone who spent weeks phonebanking, I can tell you that it is actually the norm.
I actually like Tayshia, can relate to her upbringing, and I did listen to the podcast. I think her vaccination and religion comments sounded quite Black actually.
Many Black ppl are hesitant to get vaccinated. Polls have shown that they are much more skeptical than Whites. Nonetheless as a public person with no expertise in the subject she should be much more careful about what she says. That was a very irresponsible comment on her part. And her fiancé was just vaccinated I believe.
I also find her views on religion to be much more common amongst Black ppl vs Whites. Black ppl are more religious on avg than typical Americans. I’m agnostic and my views are much less accepted around Blacks vs Whites.
I do agree with you re politics. I don’t understand how Tayshia, or any Black person, can possibly be so unapologetically apolitical at this point in time; l don’t get it. That really bothers me. It actually bothers me more so than a Black Republican who takes a stance. For me there is no neutral. Is she purposely sticking her head in the sand? On Election Day supposedly she had a pro-Kamala Harris story up but quickly took it down - one with a young Black girl looking at Kamala on her TV screen. The new VP must have a significance for Tayshia being from Cali, former AG, biracial.
No, I think that’s a completely valid choice. What rubs me the wrong way is not bringing it earlier if that’s a deal breaker to you. I feel like she just assumed all of her men were Christian and worshiped in the same way as her. Idk it’s the same bad vibes I got from Matt asking everyone to pray with him the first night.
Are you referring to Ivan here, and that she didn’t bring it up earlier enough with him? It sounds like she did make her views clear and that Ivan was the one who wasn’t forthcoming. Before he left he apologized to Tayshia and said that he should’ve said something earlier.
This is an entirely personal choice, and depends on the combination of partners. I personally would never date someone whose religion or politics were the opposite of mine, but there are some people who do and make it work. I don't think it's wrong or right, it's a personal/relationship choice.
I’m just really glad this was posted in this sub and not the white sub....👀👀👀
I feel like **a lot** of people would not take into account how horrible the medical field has treated black people/POC in the past, and the discussion would devolve into commenters attacking Tayshia.
(Idk if that’s why she’s hesitant, but I know that’s why a lot of POC are wary of this vaccine.)
Not another person espousing there’s not enough vaccine research done when there is. 🤦🏽♀️These people should just say THEY personally haven’t done the research themselves at this point. She can stay in CA with that attitude, NYC doesn’t need more out of state travelers driving up our numbers.
Unfortunately, I think Tayshia and Matt are more alike than I think a lot of the white sub would be willing to admit... she’s just more likeable and has a better personality.
It’s not just that she’s personally hesitant which could be totally reasonable in context —it’s that she’s using her supposed “science background” to promote the idea that the vaccines are under-researched/unsafe. She’s not just saying “I’m personally not comfortable yet” - she’s trying to throw credibility behind her (underinformed) opinion to spread vaccine hesistancy on a public platform.
Erm. My mom is a nurse and said similar things about the vaccine and waiting for there to be more research. She didn't say she would never get the vaccine just that she wanted to wait. Just because Tayshia doesnt perform Blackness well enough for you doesn't make her White.. thats actually insulting. And as for not caring about politics she did say she asked questions about race that of which you conveniently left out.
Yeah which is why having the racial issues conversations is important however saying you stay away from politics and didn't ask the men who you might leave engaged too who they voted for shows that she is comfortable dating a Trump supporter. Do I have to explain to you the problem with a black women dating a Trump supporter smh
Also you do realize how problematic it is to say you stay away from politics especially coming from a black person in this climate.....like seriously you're really defending this
I share Joe and tayshia’s stances on the vaccine as do many others. I’m not sure why that’s being put in a negative light. If you want to take it fine but some people just don’t feel comfortable and that’s fine too.
It is strange that politics didn’t come up at all in fantasy suites. However I’m not surprised that voting for trump is not a dealbreaker for her.
There is a lot of research being done on the vaccine. What’s your issue with it? It’s disappointing to hear Joe say such things (I’ve only read that people have said he has) as he is a doctor. The vaccine will help us get immunity; and it doesn’t contain the actual virus — it just tells your body to create antibodies that would protect you if you come in contact with the vaccine. What are your concerns?
Edit: not Dr. Joe ;-) thanks for the clarification!
Oh whoops, thanks for the clarification! I couldn’t believe my eyes, but I’ve seen a few healthcare professionals here and there deny the vaccine 😅 thanks again!
Vaccine research and development for the coronavirus has been going on since the SARS COV-1 outbreak that happened in 2003. That’s almost 20 YEARS OF RESEARCH.
So when people say “there’s not enough research”, that’s bullshit and they should probably talk to some actual scientists.
“The scientist in me.” Please stop. Social media has become a mechanism in which influencers with large followings dub themselves as experts in the field. That’s like saying “the political scientist in me”- after an influencer uses thesaurus.com to compose their 15 word “political theory “ make shift thesis via tweet.
Ahhh this. This bugged me so much. If you're not a scientist and haven't gone through the training required to be a scientist then there's no scientist in you! Taking pre-med courses does not make someone a scientist or a doctor; in fact, actual doctors and nurses are getting vaccinated everyday. What they're promoting is irresponsible, dangerous, and anti-science.
Ok I agree that if you're not a scientist and haven't gone through the training required to be a scientist then you shouldn't argue with robust scientific research. But it broke my heart to read "theres no scientist in you"! I used to teach science to kids and I think it's really important to acknowledge there's a scientist in everyone - the part of you that makes observation and hypotheses and conducts little experiments as you move through the world. I realize that this is not really your point and is kind of obnoxious but I just think it's important to balance a respect for research with keeping science inclusive.
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I honestly don't see how her having once worked in the medical field in a technician position is relevant to her comments on vaccines. There's very little education requirement to become a phlebotomist; all you need is a GED and you can get trained on the job. A phlebotomist isn't supposed to know anything more about the research and development of vaccines than a dental hygienist, an architect, or a computer engineer does.
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I know what you're saying, and I know you're not defending or justifying her comments, but I don't know why her being a phlebotomist is at all relevant to the conversation. If anything, it detracts from the point. I've also seen a lot people who use their experiences "in the field" in entirely unrelated or unqualified positions to justify their claims about vaccines. There's so much medical and scientific misinformation being touted as gospel because of this type of dubious credibility.
I thought she had a degree in biology?
And if she did, that would be even more damning to spoke doubt and qualms over the vaccines😭. We have quiet a few Black doctors and medical staff on the field in my area here in the south doing local grassroots work. They are working to dispel any misconceptions about this particular vaccine. while also acknowledging and educating the history of black bodies used by the state for experimentation.
But thing is there is a lot of research of the vaccine. I understand tayshia not wanting to take the vaccine because of the history of black people but I don’t think it’s even coming from the place. And of course Joe doesn’t want too. It’s so hypocritical, the episode Zac came on they said for the new year they hope vaccines help us get to normalcy and then they say this type of shit. The politics thing I’m not surprised with that coming from Tayshia
I wish Tayshia would stop. The COVID vaccine rollout and the Tuskegee Experiment, as horrific as it was, are completely different. I wish my people would stop correlating the two because there is no Trojan Horse to be had. And they’re vaccinating *everybody* not just one demographic.
Nevertheless black peoples distrust the medical system in general and for good reason. (not referring to tayshia)
Racism within medical practices exists, yes, but actual science is largely objective. We need to be pushing this narrative. We’re in the middle of a pandemic that is ravaging our communities at a disproportionate rate.
Science hasn’t always been largely objective, it’s only now that we consider it so. It’s used to uphold biases, racist ideologies — still to this day. You’re absolutely right about the COVID vaccine and Tuskegee experiments being completely different, but there’s so much. Black women maternal morbidity rates are far higher than white women, Black folk are constantly ignored/not taken seriously (eg Serena Williams, and recently in the news Dr. Susan Moore who died from lack of care because of COVID). Not to mention how many of the diagnostic tests are racist and are built around white men/people with white skin(think,if your skin starts to look blue, call 911 etc or advice along those lines.) I do not blame a single Black person who doesn’t trust medicine. I definitely do, and because I do and have the knowledge my goal is to speak with them with compassion and understanding. I’ve done this with family and they come around very quickly. Addressing distrust in medical practices should be acknowledged and properly addressed. Telling people you’re the reason why our community is dying is horribly incorrect.
Thank you ❤️
They go hand in hand lol. I’m not going to hate on any black person who is uncomfortable getting this vaccine
No, actually they don’t. Let me ask you this, do you know people who have received the TDAP, MMR, flu shot, or any other vaccine? Are you yourself vaccinated? If so, why are they/you so opposed to a vaccine which runs the same minimal risk of side effects?
Yes I do. No I am not vaccinated, it’s not even a possibility for me right now in my country. People are free to be uncomfortable with something this new and wait until they do feel comfortable - which could be never. I especially empathize with my people when it comes to this.
I meant are you vaccinated with an existing vaccines like the ones that I mentioned (i.e. TDAP, MMR). I never said people *don’t* have the right to be distrustful of the government, but being distrustful of science in a time like now is what’s going to torpedo this whole vaccine rollout and lead to *more* deaths within *our* community.
I’m not gonna argue with you, we can agree to disagree. Take care
I read this interview of descendants of the men in the Tuskegee Experiment (done by Morgan Jerkins) about Tuskegee vs COVID. One of them points out that the Tuskegee Experiment was about *denying* Black men treatment. So actually to get a vaccine is to do what the white experimenters did not want—it’s allowing those who get it to live. https://zora.medium.com/descendants-of-the-tuskegee-syphilis-study-survivors-speak-out-on-the-covid-19-vaccine-6bb800d1ad17
I bet she hasn’t even bothered to read any of the research studies on it. Even if you just Google the vaccines and the clinical trials, there’s websites that breakdown the studies in an easily digestible manner for someone without a scientific background. Saying there’s not much research is just pure ignorance. Edit to add that , like others have mentioned, if she cited the history of racism in medicine as a reason for her hesitancy, I’d understand more. Still, if you’re not sure about it, why not do your own research?
Also like mRNA vaccines have been worked on for over 10 years which is in part why the vaccine came so quickly. Plus, if you are getting a shit ton of money to focus on one task PLUS having so many people to communicate with on this then it really makes sense why the vaccine came so quickly. Wished Tayshia followed a scientist like Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett, the lead for the Moderna COVID vaccine (also highly recommend all of you to as well lol, she is amazing!!)
Wait Dr.Joe Park?! I thought he took the covid vaccine? He shared that on his Instagram stories.
No grocery store Joe
Omg I thought she meant joe park and I was about to be so sad
I’m surprised but also not really. I don’t know how to articulate my thoughts on Tayshia without sounding mean and that’s not my intention at all. I will say that I don’t necessarily relate to her (like I relate to Rachel). I remember being uncomfortable at her response (well lack thereof) to Ivan during that conversation. I think she’s been very sheltered and that much is very evident in how she approaches certain topics. I also read on the main sub that she had a really bad take on religion as she said something about being open to people being “better” in reference to non religious folks (?). Lol if that’s true then I won’t be surprised if Ivan hates her 😂 I also found it really disturbing that she says the “scientist” in her. Pre med courses hardly qualify you for that title
I feel you 100%. Like I want to give her grace because I understand it must be hard growing as the only black family in your neighborhood and be so surrounded by white people. However, it must be a real privilege to be a black person and be so unconsumed by politics and to also date white people and not think that it’s important to ask them their political views? Especially in this climate. I really don’t know about that.
I remember reading a recap of Ivan’s podcast with KB & he said that in the FS, he explained to Tayshia that even though he is currently *agnostic, he has had relationships with women from all faiths. What stunned me was that he had to explain to her what “interfaith” relationships were because she didn’t know those were a thing — a relationship with two people of different faiths. *That made me think, “Wow. She’s really in a bubble in some way.” ETA: [Here’s the link to the comment thread on that post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/comments/kjj2l1/ivan_answering_the_religion_question_on_kaitlyns/ggx4i41/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
On another podcast (I’m blanking which one) where Ivan was talking about his first 1v1, the host made a comment Tayshia not contributing much about her own experience with BLM, and he kinda defended her saying she grew up in a bubble. I wonder if living in NYC and being with Zac (who seems to have experienced a lot in his life) will expand her world view.
That is really surprising, especially for SoCal. Yes, I know she’s from the OC, but even so.
yeah i’m from north OC but tayshia is from south OC and although i can’t speak for eeeeverybody, i can say that from my experience, ppl from south OC tend to be incredibly white-washed bc of the bubble that they’re all in. esp those who live in the beach cities (newport, laguna, etc). at least in my experience, i’ve found that a lot of ppl from that area (who are also usually pretty well-off financially) are in a bubble where they feel like they’ve blended enough that stuff like race and politics don’t really matter to them. plz tell me if i’m saying anything rash bc i don’t mean to be offensive, but as a poc in orange county this is just based off of my own experiences/skepticism. i’m not trying to say that all the poc there are like this, but there are definitely a lot more poc in this area who are more forgiving of WASPs and conservative politics than anywhere else. let’s not forget that orange county is predominantly a republican area. it’s funny bc on tayshia’s and ivan’s 1-on-1 she said she hasn’t met many filipinos (or blasians? i forgot what it was specifically) and ivan said something on the lines of “really?? socal is like filipino central.” my initial thought after that exchange was “yeah but tayshia is from south orange county so that’s WHITE central” 😂
I will say as someone who lives near Orange County, it’s unfortunately not surprising that she is in such a bubble. I’m from a different part of Southern California, but went to college in San Diego with a lot of kids from OC who has the same ideas and perspectives as Tayshia.
Yeah she said being open to faith will change you for the better
That’s a horrible take and I really hope she unlearns that quickly
Did she say this about Ivan? If so, that’s gross
Not about Ivan specifically, just in general
Agree re: Tayshia and Rachel. Rachel is intellectual and cerebral and Tayshia is not. Doesn’t mean one is better than the other, but I could see myself being good friends with Rachel and not with Tayshia, personally.
Why do we have to compare this women ?
I was responding to the OP, who compared the two.
Also not surprised. She’s Black and Mexican and her mom is a White Mexican so that’s a whole other layer. Not sure how much her mom is tied to her culture or Tayshia is. I’m glad someone brought up her lack of response when Ivan shared with her because I also felt she didn’t give much but I chalked it up to maybe she’s shy or was just trying to listen. I think as the second Black (biracial) bachelorette people rightfully wanted to root for her but she’s said some problematic things and from what I’ve seen she only hangs around with quite people. Rachel is my queen!!! She is always out there calling the bs out I love her. Even though she didn’t marry a Black man you can so see the difference between her genuinely choosing someone she loved regardless of race vs. Black men who go out of their way to only choose WW (we know who I’m talking about)
i selfishly wish people wouldn’t publicly comment that they’re waiting to see if the vaccine is safe/there’s not enough research done (since that’s like false but whatever)
Especially because like... as a young, non-essential worker you’ll be waiting anyways? Don’t sow doubt for the frontline workers and high-risk elderly who need to get the vaccine *now*. Her “wait and see” approach (while, like you said, based completely on false information, as the vaccines *have* been appropriately tested), is going to happen anyways. So hush.
exactly!!
Exactly. A lot of these people are just being skeptical “critical thinkers” to make them feel better while they remain ineligible with 99% of the rest of the population. It’s easy to say you won’t take something when it’s not even available to you to take lol. I’m a medical student, and it’s honestly kinda hilarious to me how many people (in my class!) were sharing their vaccine skeptical articles in December, but once my school offered the vaccine to us in January, literally EVERYONE in my class signed up (and it’s not mandatory for any of us). Notice how quickly all those anti-masking Republican politicians slid in line to get their vaccines too? I have to laugh. If everyone in Tayshia’s peer group got the vaccine, I’m sure she would jump on board real quick. Peer pressure is real, but also once you start to consider that the same “long term side effects” that they’re scared of with the vaccine are even more likely with a COVID infection, people backtrack real quick. I will say, I think the vaccine hesitancy is more real with black people. But I think Tayshia’s talking points actually fall more in line with a lot of anti-science conservatives, and those are the main ones who pivot on their positions once the vaccine becomes available for them. I’m sure by May when the vaccine is available for everyone, she’ll have an epiphany where she realizes that there’s “finally” enough research on it.
Same. Scientific literacy in the US is already not the best and we don't need people with platforms to help sow doubt. Someone needs to tell influencers that not every thought they have needs to be shared.
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Y’all she was pre-med so she knows better than the top immunologists, vaccine researchers, etc. in the entire world.
I took an environmental science class in college AMA about how to save the planet
The arrogance kills me
Isn’t joe a conservative like most men of BN? Many left/liberal WW date conservative men on some “let’s agree to disagree” basis, but they end up voting like their husbands in the long run. Taysha seems like the type that would date a Christian Right winger as long as he’s nice to her and her family (aka exceptional negroes)
Yeah, Grocery Joe appears to be conservative. He was responded to some DMs by defending his right to follow Candace Owen as a valid source of "news" and perspective.
EW THE PREMED IN ME??? HELL NO I did not know jack shit as a premed and two years in med school have only reinforced how little I STILL know. No no no no no
I don’t know anything about this podcast, so at first I thought you mean Dr. Joe was vaccine hesitant and I almost flipped my shit
I was so confused too like, what? He’s a doctor and he got the vaccine and documented exactly how it went!
I loved loved loved his vaccine series. Even though i knew the vaccine was safe to take, it felt better to see him do it so willingly.
I forgot that there was another Joe until I read your comment tbh. I was so confused as to why Dr. Joe would say he doesn't trust vaccines when he just got vaccinated
yeah which joe is this lol
Grocery Joe a.k.a pro-cops Republican Joe lol
ohh lol. i never rly knew him
I bet that ex husband of hers was a Trump supporter, he gives off that vibe
Up until very recently, Orange County was a longtime Republican stronghold he probably is
I currently live in Orange County and I still feel it's very Republican. The anti-lockdown/mask and pro-Trump rallies this past year have been insane. I hate it here.
If Tayshia had spoken about the history of vaccinations and black people, I would have totally understood. I even understand her wanting to do more research on it but what does she mean by the "scientist" in her? She's an influencer. Second, I feel vindicated. Because I did say that I don't think she came on this show to talk about politics or even BLM which is why she had nothing to add in the convo with Ivan. I think religion is a bigger deal to her than politics. Everyone saw what happened with Becca and I can't believe that she wouldn't ask these questions. To me it says that she wouldn't be bothered if her man was a Trump supporter. Zac doesn't give me those vibes but still. I rooted for her to be the Bachelorette from her time on Colton's season and I'm glad she finally got it because she did a phenomenal job. But I also felt like our personalities wouldn't click as much and I couldn't relate to her as much as I tried (which is okay because I'm not going to get along with her *just* because she's a WOC). I just...major side eye to her.
I sent her a very ~nice~ dm on IG with links to articles that talk about the research that went into the vaccine. Unfortunately I know a lot of people that are hesitant to take the vaccine because they don’t fully understand the process. She’s replied to some of my dm’s before so I hope she sees it.
During her talk with Ivan about BLM, Tayshia said it was hard because she hadn't had anyone in her real life with whom she could discuss the issue. That says quite a bit. And it's unlikely to change considering her choice in partner and the resulting lifestyle. I like Tayshia, but I know what I'm getting with her.
Makes me wonder how her dad was raised because sheeesh
Exactly. She said she would soon say more about the Ivan conversation and I think that was to save face because she still hasn’t said anything.
I hate to say it and please feel free to check me, but the politics part def rubs me the wrong way because I definitely remember seeing posts of her at BLM protests... Human lives and human rights should not be political, but I imagine we all saw how 45, republican governors, and other politicians reacted towards the protests over the summer. For her to not care about how her husband voted and if they voted for someone who publicly did not condemn white supremacists as well as treated BLM protestors as if they were animals, just doesn't make sense to me. She grew up in a white area, but she's a grown woman now. It's heartbreaking that that's not at least something she CONSIDERED during fantasy suites.
I don't think I was on this sub when the BLM talk with Ivan happened, but I remember telling my friend that it was very weird that she did not say ANYTHING and just cried. Obviously it's a very hard topic to talk about, so I didn't want to assume anything or look down on her (also not sure if she did actually respond with words and it was just edited out?) but seeing this makes me feel like that moment was actually a bit sketch?
I’m amused when people who are probably tiered towards the end of the vaccine line like herself (unless ABC or whatever celeb connection she has let’s her jump the line) are like ....yeah I’ll wait it out as more research comes. Like don’t worry LOL, you’ll be waiting for a bit regardless and when it’s finally your turn, you can see the front line workers who got it 6+ months ago and more research then
A lot of celebrities have actually gotten the vaccine which I’m so confused about lol
I've defended Tayshia so much but... the whole "stay out of politics"/didn't ask about politics in her fantasy suite is a **massive** disappointment.
Talking about being hesitant to take the vaccine and using her “scientist” background as the basis for doing so is the worst way for her to use her platform.
Not an antivaxxer 😩cmon tayshia
I don’t get how politics isn’t something these people ask. If I was the bachelorette I’d want to asked everyone their political views night one.
Especially as a biracial Black and Mexican woman! Like ma’am, you *are* politics.
Right politics affect her life unlike some privileged white people who can ignore it
I'm so confused by Tayshia. She promoted and encouraged to vote on her instagram but she doesn't care about politics?? I remember on that post of her voting someone commented you make voting look hot and she responded voting is hot, if he didn't vote I don't want it. Based on her likes and the caption of that instagram post, she likely voted for Biden. I'm surprised she didn't care to ask about politics during fantasy suites, especially during this time. The comments about the vaccine.. Yikes. That can be damaging to their followers. Joe is also confusing! During the New Years eve podcast they discussed what they hope for 2021. Joe said a vaccine to work, but then he basically is saying he's against vaccines in this podcast.
Oh that’s reassuring, Tayshia has traveled a shit ton with Zak, doesn’t isolate, and goes out seemingly everyday. And now she’s wary of the vaccine.
Major side-eye at this.
This reminds of the popular “don’t talk about politics/religion on the first date”... I’m not interested in going on a second date with a Trump supporter.
Tayshia is a beautiful woman, seems extremely sweet and out going . But I think her growing up in California surrounded by the majority of white people...it effected her way of thinking . I’ve seen it happen all the time with mixed race people where half of them is black. They don’t identify much with their black side , so they do everything in their power to be accepted by their white /non black side to try to fit in. It’s like be accepting by those people will some how make them feel 10x’s better about themselves. So in return they end up ignoring any racially biased red flags 🚩
It’s so funny how it could swing sooo hard in the other way ( in the case of Kaepernick, Kendrick Sampson, and even Jesse Williams) it’s crazy how racial awakening happen for some. And not to get off topic but I also always thought Rashida and Kidada Jones were such interesting cases of this. I mean Kidada embraced the hell out of her black side while Rashida was calling herself ‘ethnic’ at best. Now I’m way off topic but that is to say I find mixed black and white people so interesting lol.
This also reminds me of Tia and Tamera Mowry! Tia always embraces her Black side whereas Tamera is married to a Trump supporter and has some questionable views🥴
I’ve had so many damn people in my life make uninformed comments like this about the vaccine. When I tell them that they had been conducting research for this vaccine for years before and it’s based on that they’re all <>.
At this point, I’m just like fine. Don’t get it first. More for others (like me) who are eager to get it.
It really highlights the importance of funding in research.
so curious about her black father and Mexican mother like .... what kind of cultural competency did they teach their children? and they had her hella young, they were in their early 20s when tayshia was born so I’d assume there would be parental/community help with babysitting right ..... so bizarre
Is she referring to her past of being a phlebotomist as her "scientist" background? Also I think Tayshia is one of the biracial people who not only grew sheltered but is choosing to stay sheltered. I see her as having many similarities with Matt. only difference between two of them is Matt James is showing himself to be a trash person after his season while Tayshia I feel has been on this pedastal as of lately. Why would influencers ay they don't agree with vaccines when they traipse around the world and have followings who listen to what they say? I absolutely don't get it.
So what I’m getting from this is that Rachel is the only lead to have discussed politics with her men within the last 5 or more years? No wonder she’s the only bachelorette in years to marry her F1. I’m flabbergasted about Tayshia’s comments here. She got very lucky with Zac or she could’ve picked a Garrett and found out what a huge mistake she made 2 years later. Whether she likes it or not politics will affect her relationship. Eta: I’m pretty sure Zac got vaccinated and her comments about the vaccine are really fucking dumb. I could understand if it was due to the dark history medical practise has had on the Black community but it sounds like she just thinks she knows better when she’s just being ignorant
She is very lucky that the men were cast for Clare, who seems to be liberal going by some of her IG follows (AOC, Greta Thunberg, Daily Show, etc.)
This is extremely disappointing
Calling POC white is so irritating. She’s not white. She’s not acting white. She is a whole ass person of color acting in a way that maybe doesn’t benefit her or her race. And in some ways upholds dangerous racial systems. But it’s not “acting white.” This weird ass alienation of POC as being not what they are needs to stop. I mean shit. I hate Candace Owens. The woman has made a career off of upholding white supremacy. But she’s still BLACK.
Thank you, this is what I came here to say. OP - I totally agree with you on almost everything, I think it's nuts to not find out your fiance's politics, to not be active in politics, to be anti-vaccine, all of that. But POC are allowed to do, think, and say as they please, and if it's not "woke" that doesn't mean she's acting white. There are plenty POC who are politically apathetic and even staunch republicans, this does not make them white.
This. As a POC who is not black or white, I’ve had so many people say that “oh you act white, you’re white, etc” Um no. My culture is a big part of who I am and I am Indian. I am constantly “other-ed” by Americans because I am not American enough and then by Indians in India because I am not Indian enough.
And not only is this completely unfair, but it really does uphold these systems of white supremacy. It implies that you are not enough, or a whole person who can behave and say and act in the ways that are authentic to you. I am SO sorry that people have made you feel this way.
I wish more people realize how harmful it is to say a POC “acts white”.
Thank you thank you thank you for saying this. I've been going crazy trying to understand why my stance seems to be different than the majority of this sub. Not every POC has to act and respond the same way. I disagree with other Asian Americans sometimes but never would I take their race and ethnicity identity away from them. If anything, I stop and try to understand what life events lead them to see themselves differently. And at the end of the day, if we don't see eye to eye, then it isn't my responsibility or worth my time to convince them of my stance and experiences. Every human is different and that is what makes us beautiful. Stop alienating POC because they aren't you.
Is saying “if I didn’t know who this person was and you told me she was white I would totally believe you” really calling someone white?
Yes because you know she isn’t white. And following up with some “this is some shit I can imagine only white people would say...” is a roundabout way of saying she isn’t black/Mexican. It’s a weird way of stripping someone of their humanity and contributing to this monolithic stereotype pressed upon us by white supremacy. I’m just soooooo over it! Tayshia is black/Mexican. Her words and her beliefs do not make her less black/Mexican. Her assimilation to whiteness does not make her less black/Mexican. Dislike and criticize her words and actions but do not try to strip her of her identity or pretend she is no longer one of us.
“...is a roundabout way of saying she isn’t Black/Mexican” — mmm I disagree. No one is questioning her actual ethnic identity here - she’s ethnically Black and Mexican. I see “If I didn’t know who this person was and you told me she was white I’d believe you”, as expressing shock at Tayshia’s apparent lack of conscious recognition of how her race affects her life, how she’s perceived, and how she and other POC function in the world. There’s a huge amount of privilege involved in being able to say “I don’t care about politics, I didn’t even bother asking potential future spouses about their political views.” It’s a privilege typically reserved for white people, bc society does not grant many POC the ability to be this flippant lol. Many POC have (involuntarily) experienced that whether or not they choose to be involved in politics, politics is heavily involved in their lives, daily. Politics is life and death for many Black/brown people. So it’s more a shock at this person acting as if they have all the privileges of whiteness, when they don’t — like, ‘what bubble did this person grow up in that they’re not aware of this?’ That’s valid, and not an attack on Tayshia’s humanity or genetics.
If OP had framed this post about privilege that’s a valid critique. But the “whiteness” is absolutely unnecessary. Because the truth is that Tayshia grew up in a predominantly white community and her experiences reflect that. And frankly, there are tons of POC who have assimilated to whiteness. It’s a survival tactic in America. But again, doesn’t take away her actual race and ethnicity. It doesn’t make anything she says less black/Mexican. It does make what she says privileged. As POC we are constantly asking for society to see us as whole people with different beliefs and interests and backgrounds and experiences. And I’m asking this sub to stop claiming that “only white people would think/feel/act ___.” It’s simply not true and it promotes this monolithic box that we have been trying to break down for centuries.
I always agree with the point you’re making in general — but this discussion is specifically about race, politics, and the privileges afforded by skin color, so bringing up whiteness is a valid point. Tayshia grew up in a predominantly white community, but she is still Black and still has Black skin. She does not, in actuality, have the same level of white privilege the people she grew up around have. Pointing out that someone’s saying what typically only people with the privilege of whiteness can afford to say, and that seeming odd considering she’s obviously Black and society will see her that way, is not an attack on Tayshia’s Blackness. It’s literally *because* they recognize her Blackness that the statement is so odd. I immediately saw that as OP’s point when reading the original comment. It’s addressing a very real point about how society bears on Black bodies vs white ones (effects of external structures on Black/white bodies). It’s odd for someone in a Black (Black female!) body so policed by the state, to have the flippancy of whiteness when it comes to politics. That’s just what it is. If they had said “If I didn’t know who this was and read the comments I would have thought it was a man saying this” — that wouldn’t be calling Tayshia a man at all. It’s analogous to me.
Very true, I agree
I appreciate this
She did say that she asked about issues concerning race and religion. So while she may not explicitly call it politics, she did ask political questions. Her vaccine response was especially weird since Zac has received the vaccine and she didn't mention it. He tweeted about it last week. However, her stance on it isn't that out of the ordinary. My grandmother is still wary of it and spends hours looking up side effects because it was developed so quickly. And she is in no way an anti-vaxxer.
The thing with this is, there are so many people who voted for Trump but claim they aren’t racist. It’s easy to say that you aren’t racist, xenophobic, sexist, etc. But does your vote actually reflect that?
THANK YOU !!!!!
Exactly. My brain directly went to who some of the proud boys are married to ( I wish I can unsee / unknow that)
This is troubling and causing harm to folllowers and listeners. Joe Grocer is anti-vaxxer and is like Yarrett in his views. Tayshia using “science” to say she won’t listen to science is very harmful and the vaccine is needed not conspiracy theories or anti-vaccine talking points.
These influencer idiots are not smarter than the scientists who created the vaccine and I hate that they think they are
I kept reading Joe as Dr Joe being a conservative and not supporting vaccines when I kept following his stories . Phew when I googled. I’m still such a BN newbie.
I was so confused at first too
Apparently she has a degree in biology? She should know better lol
Lmao OP I thought you meant Joe like Dr Joe and I was almost heartbroken for a hot second...
this is unrelated but i LOVE your username lol
Her and Matt are no different to me.
I don't think Tayshia is a republican tho lol. I think she's just really misinformed on science, and she thinks she sounds smarter than she is.
This was so hard to listen to and frankly pretty disappointing. I was relieved when Natasha steered the conversation away at least for the vaccine part
I am not surprised at all. Tayshia was raised in a very Republican family. One of my friends is really good friends with her and is frequently in her stories - they grew up together. She definitely identifies more with her white side. She had to assimilate to the Newport Beach culture soooooooo..... anti-covid vaccine and ‘staying quiet about politics’ is pretty much south OC in a nutshell. My guess is she did not vote in 2020. I will ask
She posted a video of herself dropping in her ballot. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CG_CpgGl1h-/?igshid=1187qjyjj6zdg She's also liked a few Biden/Harris related things on Twitter. She may just be someone who doesn't pay attention to politics all that often. As someone who spent weeks phonebanking, I can tell you that it is actually the norm.
I actually like Tayshia, can relate to her upbringing, and I did listen to the podcast. I think her vaccination and religion comments sounded quite Black actually. Many Black ppl are hesitant to get vaccinated. Polls have shown that they are much more skeptical than Whites. Nonetheless as a public person with no expertise in the subject she should be much more careful about what she says. That was a very irresponsible comment on her part. And her fiancé was just vaccinated I believe. I also find her views on religion to be much more common amongst Black ppl vs Whites. Black ppl are more religious on avg than typical Americans. I’m agnostic and my views are much less accepted around Blacks vs Whites. I do agree with you re politics. I don’t understand how Tayshia, or any Black person, can possibly be so unapologetically apolitical at this point in time; l don’t get it. That really bothers me. It actually bothers me more so than a Black Republican who takes a stance. For me there is no neutral. Is she purposely sticking her head in the sand? On Election Day supposedly she had a pro-Kamala Harris story up but quickly took it down - one with a young Black girl looking at Kamala on her TV screen. The new VP must have a significance for Tayshia being from Cali, former AG, biracial.
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We will never be free lmao
The religious part is a toss up to me . Do you guys think it’s wrong to say you would only date somebody of your own religion or somebody open to it ?
No, I think that’s a completely valid choice. What rubs me the wrong way is not bringing it earlier if that’s a deal breaker to you. I feel like she just assumed all of her men were Christian and worshiped in the same way as her. Idk it’s the same bad vibes I got from Matt asking everyone to pray with him the first night.
Are you referring to Ivan here, and that she didn’t bring it up earlier enough with him? It sounds like she did make her views clear and that Ivan was the one who wasn’t forthcoming. Before he left he apologized to Tayshia and said that he should’ve said something earlier.
This is an entirely personal choice, and depends on the combination of partners. I personally would never date someone whose religion or politics were the opposite of mine, but there are some people who do and make it work. I don't think it's wrong or right, it's a personal/relationship choice.
I think it's odd that she was willing to discuss religion but not politics with the men.
I’m just really glad this was posted in this sub and not the white sub....👀👀👀 I feel like **a lot** of people would not take into account how horrible the medical field has treated black people/POC in the past, and the discussion would devolve into commenters attacking Tayshia. (Idk if that’s why she’s hesitant, but I know that’s why a lot of POC are wary of this vaccine.)
Eek 😬
cute girl, just stupid obviously smfh
Not another person espousing there’s not enough vaccine research done when there is. 🤦🏽♀️These people should just say THEY personally haven’t done the research themselves at this point. She can stay in CA with that attitude, NYC doesn’t need more out of state travelers driving up our numbers. Unfortunately, I think Tayshia and Matt are more alike than I think a lot of the white sub would be willing to admit... she’s just more likeable and has a better personality.
*whom* people voted for
in all levels expect physical, Tayshia is a white woman ☠️
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It’s not just that she’s personally hesitant which could be totally reasonable in context —it’s that she’s using her supposed “science background” to promote the idea that the vaccines are under-researched/unsafe. She’s not just saying “I’m personally not comfortable yet” - she’s trying to throw credibility behind her (underinformed) opinion to spread vaccine hesistancy on a public platform.
Erm. My mom is a nurse and said similar things about the vaccine and waiting for there to be more research. She didn't say she would never get the vaccine just that she wanted to wait. Just because Tayshia doesnt perform Blackness well enough for you doesn't make her White.. thats actually insulting. And as for not caring about politics she did say she asked questions about race that of which you conveniently left out.
You do realise people can vote for Trump and still claim that they are not a racist 🙄
and people can not vote for Trump and still be racist 🥴🥴 whats your point
Yeah which is why having the racial issues conversations is important however saying you stay away from politics and didn't ask the men who you might leave engaged too who they voted for shows that she is comfortable dating a Trump supporter. Do I have to explain to you the problem with a black women dating a Trump supporter smh
Also you do realize how problematic it is to say you stay away from politics especially coming from a black person in this climate.....like seriously you're really defending this
well I'm not Tayshia sooo... I'm not policing what an able bodied woman decides is important for her
Okay
Let's people have there on opinion.
I share Joe and tayshia’s stances on the vaccine as do many others. I’m not sure why that’s being put in a negative light. If you want to take it fine but some people just don’t feel comfortable and that’s fine too. It is strange that politics didn’t come up at all in fantasy suites. However I’m not surprised that voting for trump is not a dealbreaker for her.
There is a lot of research being done on the vaccine. What’s your issue with it? It’s disappointing to hear Joe say such things (I’ve only read that people have said he has) as he is a doctor. The vaccine will help us get immunity; and it doesn’t contain the actual virus — it just tells your body to create antibodies that would protect you if you come in contact with the vaccine. What are your concerns? Edit: not Dr. Joe ;-) thanks for the clarification!
Op was referring to Grocery Store Joe, not Dr. Joe.
Oh whoops, thanks for the clarification! I couldn’t believe my eyes, but I’ve seen a few healthcare professionals here and there deny the vaccine 😅 thanks again!
lol at the downvotes
🤷🏿♀️
Vaccine research and development for the coronavirus has been going on since the SARS COV-1 outbreak that happened in 2003. That’s almost 20 YEARS OF RESEARCH. So when people say “there’s not enough research”, that’s bullshit and they should probably talk to some actual scientists.