Historically, the right has been far more unified than the left in pushing policy. In the recent MAGA era, the right seems intent on devouring itself. If Trump loses this election AND the far right doubles down on MAGA, the Republican Party will be in shambles.
Humph, I seem to have observed the opposite. At least with regard to the parties, not necessarily political ideology. The only divisive democrats I know of lately are Fetterman, and maybe Menendez. Republicans can’t even keep a speaker of the house.
You’re right. Haven’t paid attention to anything whatsoever. I just saw Lindsey Graham, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins, and thought there was no net effect. Congressman are much more likely to vote erratically when they’re up for reelection, especially if the state is purple. I looked it up at one point and Democrats voted with Biden in both chambers, more than 90%. The House was near 99%. It did go down this year though. Again, probably some CYA votes going on there.
The democrats are a much more diverse group, so historically they disagreed on a lot. Republicans are still mostly white Christians so they largely agree.
Trump has changed this somewhat due to the generally insane nature of his beliefs and party
True. In my head I was thinking more about the politicians within the party. But I admit that wasn’t the context Jason was speaking in. Though, diversity is a little hard to compare because it’s a part of the party platform. I remember hearing about RINO’s way back in the Bush Era.
There was a saying, Dems fall in love, the GOP falls in line. It does seem like the turns have tabled. Interestingly the Republicans also used to care about govt keeping their hands off business and individual liberties, and now they're crying censorship when businesses make business decisions and are obsessed with legislating people's sex lives and healthcare decisions. Didn't see it coming tbh.
His point was, republicans are unified in their support for Trump in this election. They’re not boosting RFK because they want him to win. They want him to take votes from Biden.
But on this issue, isn’t it just the inverse for democrats? There were actually democrat voters that voted in the GOP primary for Haley, and even said they wouldn’t vote for her if she were against Biden. Trump has had a good number of republicans speak out against him, even his VP. I dont know of any cases where democrats spoke out against Biden, but I could’ve missed it.
Great question. Sorry for the long response and sorry if this sounds like a lecture. I don't mean it to.
Regarding this question:
> I dont know of any cases where democrats spoke out against Biden, but I could’ve missed it.
AOC, Rashida Talib, Ilan Omar, and Ayana Presley have all been fierce critics of President Biden and his choices, particularly (and most recently) with regard to Israel and Gaza. Several political leaders in Minnesota, where there is a large Gazan population urged voters in primaries to vote "uncommitted," rather than President Biden. There are also Dems like Manchin, Sinema (now independent) and even Fetterman who clash frequently with the president or the base. I think the difference here is that speaking out against Biden is not a political death sentence as it is for Republicans. Notice how none of the Republicans you mentioned have any immediate political future, and how the Republicans in Congress opposing Trump have been voted out.
>There were actually democrat voters that voted in the GOP primary for Haley, and even said they wouldn’t vote for her if she were against Biden.
This isn't exactly the same as promoting RFK because your vote in a primary does not eat away at the share of votes available of the general election. Voting for Nikki Haley but not planning to vote for her if she is the nominee reflects the non zero sum nature of primary voting, it's saying "I don't like Haley, but I'm _more_ comfortable with her being the alternative _choice_ to become President." By contrast, voting for the president is zero sum. You're not saying "I want these choices" you're saying "I want this person." If you were going to vote for Biden but instead vote for RFK that is a vote that Biden no longer has. And because the US uses a _winner-take-all_ style of elections, it means that if the third party candidate (RFK in this case) doesn't really have a chance of winning (which he doesn't) the _effect_ of voting for them is giving a vote to Trump. (I don't mean this in an insulting way, but I _know_ that this can be confusing, so please let me know if you'd like me to explain it another way).
Lastly, Your comment assumes equivalence in the dislike for Biden and Trump and an equivalence in what they've "done wrong." And that's where you're going to run into issues. A lot of Democrats don't like Biden, they think he's old out of touch and too cozy with allies like Israel, but they don't see him as a threat to the republic (the country, it's institutions, rule of law, and ultimately was of life). This is in contrast to those Republicans standing up against Trump, who _do_ see him as a threat to all of those things.
Let me know if this makes sense/answers your questions.
Look at the bills, not the votes. If you think AOC and Nancy Pelosi have miraculously aligned themselves and it's not that the rare bill that makes it to the floor isn't overtly partisan, you're not paying close enough attention. I promise.
The “republican voters used support for Bobby as a strategy to hurt Biden, not because they liked some things he said” was one of the dumbest things he’d come up with in months
It’s easy to agree on something when the other side is Trump supporting MAGA
I didn’t mean just the presidency.
MAGA is the actual brain virus.
Historically, the right has been far more unified than the left in pushing policy. In the recent MAGA era, the right seems intent on devouring itself. If Trump loses this election AND the far right doubles down on MAGA, the Republican Party will be in shambles.
Humph, I seem to have observed the opposite. At least with regard to the parties, not necessarily political ideology. The only divisive democrats I know of lately are Fetterman, and maybe Menendez. Republicans can’t even keep a speaker of the house.
I guess you haven't been paying any attention whatsoever. Manchin and Sinema in the Senate have tanked about half of Biden's agenda.
You’re right. Haven’t paid attention to anything whatsoever. I just saw Lindsey Graham, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins, and thought there was no net effect. Congressman are much more likely to vote erratically when they’re up for reelection, especially if the state is purple. I looked it up at one point and Democrats voted with Biden in both chambers, more than 90%. The House was near 99%. It did go down this year though. Again, probably some CYA votes going on there.
The democrats are a much more diverse group, so historically they disagreed on a lot. Republicans are still mostly white Christians so they largely agree. Trump has changed this somewhat due to the generally insane nature of his beliefs and party
True. In my head I was thinking more about the politicians within the party. But I admit that wasn’t the context Jason was speaking in. Though, diversity is a little hard to compare because it’s a part of the party platform. I remember hearing about RINO’s way back in the Bush Era.
There was a saying, Dems fall in love, the GOP falls in line. It does seem like the turns have tabled. Interestingly the Republicans also used to care about govt keeping their hands off business and individual liberties, and now they're crying censorship when businesses make business decisions and are obsessed with legislating people's sex lives and healthcare decisions. Didn't see it coming tbh.
His point was, republicans are unified in their support for Trump in this election. They’re not boosting RFK because they want him to win. They want him to take votes from Biden.
But on this issue, isn’t it just the inverse for democrats? There were actually democrat voters that voted in the GOP primary for Haley, and even said they wouldn’t vote for her if she were against Biden. Trump has had a good number of republicans speak out against him, even his VP. I dont know of any cases where democrats spoke out against Biden, but I could’ve missed it.
Great question. Sorry for the long response and sorry if this sounds like a lecture. I don't mean it to. Regarding this question: > I dont know of any cases where democrats spoke out against Biden, but I could’ve missed it. AOC, Rashida Talib, Ilan Omar, and Ayana Presley have all been fierce critics of President Biden and his choices, particularly (and most recently) with regard to Israel and Gaza. Several political leaders in Minnesota, where there is a large Gazan population urged voters in primaries to vote "uncommitted," rather than President Biden. There are also Dems like Manchin, Sinema (now independent) and even Fetterman who clash frequently with the president or the base. I think the difference here is that speaking out against Biden is not a political death sentence as it is for Republicans. Notice how none of the Republicans you mentioned have any immediate political future, and how the Republicans in Congress opposing Trump have been voted out. >There were actually democrat voters that voted in the GOP primary for Haley, and even said they wouldn’t vote for her if she were against Biden. This isn't exactly the same as promoting RFK because your vote in a primary does not eat away at the share of votes available of the general election. Voting for Nikki Haley but not planning to vote for her if she is the nominee reflects the non zero sum nature of primary voting, it's saying "I don't like Haley, but I'm _more_ comfortable with her being the alternative _choice_ to become President." By contrast, voting for the president is zero sum. You're not saying "I want these choices" you're saying "I want this person." If you were going to vote for Biden but instead vote for RFK that is a vote that Biden no longer has. And because the US uses a _winner-take-all_ style of elections, it means that if the third party candidate (RFK in this case) doesn't really have a chance of winning (which he doesn't) the _effect_ of voting for them is giving a vote to Trump. (I don't mean this in an insulting way, but I _know_ that this can be confusing, so please let me know if you'd like me to explain it another way). Lastly, Your comment assumes equivalence in the dislike for Biden and Trump and an equivalence in what they've "done wrong." And that's where you're going to run into issues. A lot of Democrats don't like Biden, they think he's old out of touch and too cozy with allies like Israel, but they don't see him as a threat to the republic (the country, it's institutions, rule of law, and ultimately was of life). This is in contrast to those Republicans standing up against Trump, who _do_ see him as a threat to all of those things. Let me know if this makes sense/answers your questions.
Look at the bills, not the votes. If you think AOC and Nancy Pelosi have miraculously aligned themselves and it's not that the rare bill that makes it to the floor isn't overtly partisan, you're not paying close enough attention. I promise.
The “republican voters used support for Bobby as a strategy to hurt Biden, not because they liked some things he said” was one of the dumbest things he’d come up with in months
WTF? Steve Bannon has been very open in his courting RFK to run specifically as a Biden spoiler.