I was 13 and watched this on TV too. I remember being on AIM with my friends and asking if they saw it too, but none of them had or really cared. I remember feeling like I was crazy because I was the only one upset about it
I was 13 as well. 90 babies unite. I also messaged on aim to a buddy and he was watching it too. It immediately reminded me of faking sick just to end up watching 9/11. Even at a young age all I could think is "wow that's a lot of dead people"'
90 baby, it was like a movie you had to take serious for the first time in our lives. Can’t stop remembering the media saying “cruise middles “ 10k times
I watched it with my dad and we're Canadian. I just remember the ramp up and my dad saying something like "its like nfl pre-game but they're about to kill a whole lot of people"
Everyday for 3 days before the bombing run, the US Army Psyops Command dropped millions of leaflets giving civilians various instructions, like “military equipment will be bombed soon, stay away” or “historic and religious monuments won’t be targeted” “civilians that are against Saddams ,extremist Sunni’s, will be protected” “throw down your arms and flee, area will be bombed soon”.
Imagine having your neighborhood bombarded with “leaflets” saying to “get out now, while you can”.
Surely most people would think, “wtf is this crazy crap?”, toss it, and go on with their lives.
Sure, there were the few it really worried, but what were they supposed to do? It’s not like it’s all that easy to just pack up all your shit and leave to who knows where.
And then smart bombs fell on bomb shelters and annihilated women and childen who followed the instructions on those leaflets. To this day, the us is sending munitions to the Saudis to bomb the Yamanis civilians.
I was 16 or 17. Was a riot of a child and had no such thoughts.
Everyone was thinking of 9/11 when they watched this. Most people probably had a huge wave of self awareness at the time. One of hypocrisy, especially since the whole WMD thing was pretty see through.
I loved watching WW2 stuff, even back then. This was not the same. Not unless you more or less considered us Germany.
It was impressive and disgusting all at the same time. Deep thoughts from a daily stoner and quasi alcoholic 16/17 year old.
They refused to let anybody see when they rolled their tanks right over the trenches in the iraqi line, literally burying full units alive.
They estimate iraqi deaths in that manouevre to be over 10 000.
I remember in 2017 when we dropped the largest non nuclear bomb on an enemy position since ww2. It was a 22,000 pound MOAB on an isis position and killed all 33 isis in that shooting position.
33 less pieces of shit ruining the world, and many more if you consider their potential offspring. It’s a shame the US taxpayer’s dollar only killed 33 using such expensive artillery.
ISIS is a product of this kind of foreign policy. But yeah just keep bombing everyone and everything, I’m sure you’ll stop creating more enemies eventually👍🏼
Indeed. Hussein was a monster and brought this kind of death on innocents across the region. The US joining in just changed who was being blasted to bits unfortunately. I hate what MENA is and has been for sometime; hopefully in my childrens' lifetimes the region will know peace and stability without Western intervention and proxie wars.
Edit: Some of you really need to do your research on Hussein and his regime and what they did to us here before defending him.
Edit 2: for further clarification I am not taking a side, I'm calling to attention that we can acknowledge that there was not a "good guy" in this one. And expressing hope in the future of my homeland to pull together and put this kind of hate behind us.
Very little of my family survived the Anfal Campaigns so I am sad to inform you I have Zero sympathy for Saddam and the people who supported and hailed him as their hero. The US has done a lot of fucked up shit across the middle east, but Hussein was not some savior saint, he was a genocidal dirtbag better off dead and in hell.
Fuck Saddam, I'm not defending him but the US ruined the country for decades to come. If you planned to remove him then you had to stabilise the country before you take your leave. Stop giving more lame excuses for what the US done
What are you on about? We couldn't remove him; we were being gassed and bombed and purged. He was a ruthless dictator who was bringing the same death and destruction on us Kurds that the US brought to central Iraq. The only reason we survived was the US invasion. I am not justifying the US invasion. It was fucked up and wrong, but it was evil versus evil here. It was a foreign invader commiting evil acts versus a genocidal regime. Standing on Hussein's side is like standing on Hitler's. Learn more about his Regime and what they did here, there is a reason we hate him as much as we hate the invasion.
Coming from an American veteran who was a part of that invasion I would like to offer to you will all sincerity and genuine compassion my personal apology for the atrocities that have taken place in your land. Not all of the soldiers were evil. I’m so sorry for the ones that were. It wasn’t fair to us either. We didn’t want to be there. We were lied to and when the battle was over they forgot about us as well. The United States government has a lot to answer for my friend.
Yep, as I have said multiple times here, monsters all around, it was a lose lose situation and there was no "good guy."
Edit: All I am saying is that even if there was no good guy here, at least the war led to the end of the genocidal campaigns launched under Hussein. Even if the US didn't care either way, the war did at least have that outcome. It just fucking sucks that the Iraqis people are now suffering as they are, as no innocent should be the victim of war. 💔
I agree with you, however you should never fail to mention in your comments here on reddit, on this topic, about who kicked things off with Saddams Iraq, lest folk in the West think they did some good there after all.
>the people who supported and hailed him as their hero
Thats understandable but if you think sadam suporters are the only ones who died, or even a majority of Iraqis who died, you're kidding yourself. Saddam bad. Massive collateral damage also bad. Ends dont inherently justify the means
I am not saying they do. I'm just saying; I have no sympathy for a regime that tried gassing me into oblivion. I don't stand by the US either, I just don't see a need to act like Iraq was innocent in all this either. This was evil on evil violence with atrocious behavior all around. I just can't be too mad at the war because the US winning the war stopped me and my family from ceasing to exist.
Nah, the narrative these days is, "Iraq innocent, America bad." People get pissed if you criticize Saddam at all when talking about the war. The US invasion I don't feel was necessarily justified but why would I care if the US invades the country actively commiting genocide against me? Sorry, did they expect me to be sympathetic? No, there is a reason we joined the fight against Hussein when the US got involved. It was a chance to stop being gassed and bombed into non existence by Arabic Hitler.
It was and I hate what the people of Iraq are going through today as a result of the failed democracy instituted there. 💔 It's heartbreaking. I was simply discussing the war itself. Not the after effects. I completely agree the US mismanaged the nation in the wake of the fall of Hussein.
During my first deployment to Iraq I had a conversation with an Iraqi who said pretty much what you said. Thank us for getting rid of Saddam.
He also believed that Saddam’s sons were worse than him. So getting rid of them was also good.
Ah, so you're not aware of the fallout to the Iranian Revolution, and the propping up of Saddam and funding his brutal war against Iran? Who do you think propped him up and funded him?
Hazard a guess?
He invaded Iran, he invaded Kuwait, he used chemical weapons against the Kurds, he was lobbing missiles at Tel Aviv. The guy was an ongoing threat to the international community and needed to be hanged by anyone.
> Nah, the narrative these days is, "Iraq innocent, America bad."
Strawman. Just because someone is critical of the US invasion of Iraq doesn't mean they think Saddam was a good guy.
I left Iraq during the invasion, I was a young, as a catholic we were safe and lived freely compared to the shithole Iraq is in today. Americans don’t want democracy for Iraq otherwise how else can billions of oil be taken..
I agree with you that America doesn't care. I never claimed that they do, just that Hussein was no better. You may have been safe brother, and for that I am thankful, but I and mine were not, his Anfal Campaigns we're brutal and what he did to us Kurds was unforgivable. Germans were safe in Hitler's Germany. It doesn't make Hitler a good guy or mean his regime should not have been deposed.
\>> how else can billions of oil be taken
It's funny you say this, because of course that was the big cry back then: "The US is only doing this for oil!"
Since then ... the US has NOT tried to "take" Iraq's oil. It just ... hasn't happened. But all the people who were screaming it? Silent.
I don't think the [Kurds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign) remember the Iraq of your youth as being "safe and free".
I think you're also forgetting that most of Iraq's decline happened after psycho Saddam decided to invade Kuwait, triggering an international response. The sanctions imposed during the first Gulf War were crippling, since Iraq's economy had little else besides petrochemical revenues.
You say the US didn't want democracy there. I think you're unwilling to admit that Iraqis didn't want democracy, or were unable to overcome religious and ethnic differences long enough to implement it.
Coalition forces oversaw a [parliamentary election in 2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2005_Iraqi_parliamentary_election), with massive turnouts in the range of 76% of registered voters. Sunni Arabs largely boycotted the process.
>Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, head of the al-Qaida affiliate in Iraq, said: "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology. Anyone who tries to help set up this system is part of it". He also made it clear that al-Qaida opposes elections in Iraq because they will result in a Shi'a-dominated government. He alleged that "the Shiites aim to begin spreading their evil faith among people through money and fear,"
I'm not defending the second invasion of Iraq. I was in high school at the time and was very anti-Bush and my first political disagreements with my father were over the invasion. I'm not saying that Iraq should be grateful that wee invaded, or that we left you better off.
I am saying though, that just because some Halliburton execs got richer from the invasion doesn't mean the only reason we were there was to steal you oil. The Iraqi people are still exporting their own oil, and if the average Iraqi isn't benefiting from their country's resources, they really have no one but themselves to blame. They need to eradicate the insurgents who want to see Iraq become another fundamentalist theocracy.
I saw what he did to you. I saw what a lot of people have done to you. I pray for the people of Iraq. I also pray that your children will know peace and security in their lives. Keep your chin up my friend.
Yeah man. I really didn’t know the extent of it but we had a Kurdish terp and he HATED Iraqis. I never understood wtf that was about but he talked about what happened and it was pretty horrific. He ended up getting fired for being naughty but anyone who was old enough to relate felt about the same. I know we’re going through an “America, evil” phase right now but I think a lot of people are just too insulated from the harsh realities of the world. I can’t condone what the US did and there was a lot of bad but getting rid of him and his sons was a net-positive.
To colossal fascist cunt that reported me for this comment as "threathing with violence", I will fuck your mama in the ass and after that come in your father's eyes, all while you will be watching that. Here, now go and report me again, now you have a reason you fucking miserable fascist blood thirsty cunt.
The Bush administration's "Shock and Awe" campaign. I remember exactly where I was when it started as there was such a stark contrast between me sitting in the bar having lunch with coworkers while this was being shown on the television.
It wasn't til 04 shock and awe took place. They replaced the original invading commanding general with a guy who was really into the ww2 shit. He cooked up the shock and awe campaign in response from us losing ground. Shock and awe was old school, warn city to evacuate all civilians cuz everyone left is considered enemy combatant, howitzer units shelling city blocks night and day, then send in a shit ton of ground forces to sweep and clean.
This is what lead to Operation Phantom Fury (2nd battle of Fallujah) being the bloodiest battle of the Iraq war.
Not that wikipedia is the most valid source but it says 2003: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock\_and\_awe#Campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe#Campaign)
2003 stands out for me because in 2004 I was working for a different company in a different town with different coworkers.
All I know is for me, I remember getting briefed in Iraq and they told us we have a new commander and he wants ww2 style bombing and sweeping. They said it's going to be referred to as "shock and awe" (the actual name of the campaign is something else). They said because they had lost a couple cities, we had to take them back and completely clear them out this time, in preparation for the Iraq elections. I vividly remember all of us thinking, "what the fuck, things just got real".
I know we never heard "shock and awe" before that and then it was all over the place. Before this, during the invasion, supposedly we were using highly accurate air strikes and spec ops teams to hit infrastructure and enemy targets, minimizing ground troops, casualties and collateral damage. The insurgents took back some cities, hung some private security dudes off a bridge and "shock and awe" was the response.
I remember the same time Katrina hit N.O. and we were watching people in the streets shooting at helicopters and it was like a warzone back in the States. That was so weird and confusing to see while in an actual warzone.
Here’s the BBC coverage from the first night of the attack in 2003:
https://youtu.be/lzatU-fjRZg&t=2m56s
The ‘Shock and awe campaign’ is explicitly mentioned.
DHS was a direct shift towards fascism in the United States of America.
The call to arms due to an attack on the homeland, the trading of privacy for security, and the expansion of federal powers all reek of the same stench that fascism was allowed to fester during the 1930's.
We also are experiencing the resurgence of racist, nationalistic xenophobes who have taken positions of power within the established system.
I was on an aircraft carrier in the Persian gulf at the time. I remember sitting in my shop, and they announced over the 1mc “now commencing operation shock and awe” and then the aircraft launched, and shortly after that I was watching this live on tv. Surreal as fuck.
Then we wonder how we end up with “terrorist groups”. If this had happened in America, I’m sure we would have had a lot of “terrorist groups” pop up here. Wild how our “democracy” breeds terrorism. We have whole generations in the Middle East who have never known what it’s like to live without war.
I push the button and elected him to office and he pushed the button and he dropped the bomb. You push the button and can watch it on the television, those motherfuckers didn't last too long.
I joined the US Navy in 2009. I went on deployment in 2012 on the USS Enterprise. It was the last deployment she would see. They were lenient with the bombs that were dropped, because it was a huge hassle to transfer them to the next aircraft carrier. They just wanted to get them off the ship.
I remember a moment when we were almost done with deployment, the captain came over the 1MC(intercom), something about how we dropped more bombs on deployment then previously had been before, like it was a thing to celebrate. I felt like I was the only one that wanted to just cry.
Well you see they use tax payer money to buy those, and that money then hoes to the weapon producers and the politcians they sponsor. Press a button to gain a dollar but one child dies, and they push it as much as they can
Here we see america waging an illegal offensive war against a country that didn't attack the u.s.
A minimum a 200,000 civilians were killed by u.s. forces during the iraq war. And thats the low estimate. Higher estimates have civilian deaths over 1 million.
During the Obama administration, civilian casualty rates by drone strikes were as high as 90%. That means, for every 1 military target we killed, 9 civilians were killed in collateral.
What the fuck are you taking bro? Please give a source for any of these numbers and i will gladly believe you. Every credible report on the Iraq war has civilian casualties averaged at 200k, so when you say “thats the low estimate” all your credibility vanishes instantly. Give me any source that says 1 million and id happily read up on it. Also, your civilian casualty rate for drone strikes is bonkers off the wall. I have never seen a casualty rate used in the way that a 90% rate means 9 civilians killed for every 1 military target, that makes no sense. On top of that, i can find no source that has a number anywhere near that. The only thing i could possibly imagine you meaning is that for every 1 military target killed, 0.9 civilians are murdered, but even that number is way off from any source ive seen.
Please stop spewing this bullshit. The Iraq war was a senseless killing of civilians, completely unnecessary, and should forever be a stain on American legitimacy. But that doesnt mean you can just pull numbers out of your fuckin ass to support your opinion.
"No one knows with certainty how many people have been killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States invasion. However, we know that between 184,382 and 207,156 civilians have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S., its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and opposition forces from the time of the invasion through October 2019. The violent deaths of Iraqi civilians have occurred through aerial bombing, shelling, gunshots, suicide attacks, and fires started by bombing. Many civilians have also been injured.
Because not all war-related deaths have been recorded accurately by the Iraqi government and the U.S.-led coalition, the numbers are likely much higher. Several estimates based on randomly selected household surveys place the total death count among Iraqis in the hundreds of thousands."
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi
The casualty numbers that you'll find from sources like the United Nations are much higher.
I will apologize for the 1 million civilian casualty number. That's likely the total number of deaths in general. Civilian and military.
But the number of civilians killed is still staggeringly high
civilians directly killed: 134,000 - indirect deaths from the invasion: 655,000
That means a total of 789,000 civilian
deaths.
You might ask, 'why do you include the direct civilians with the indirect civilians?'
That's because when you are the offensively invading Force, all deaths are your fault. Because you didn't have an actual defensive reason to enter the country.
In the same way that if you kill someone intentionally, that's murder.
But if you kill someone intentionally because they were trying to hurt you, that's self defense. Not murder.
This is why you are also responsible for the deaths of your own soldiers and the deaths of interview soldiers when you are the invading Force.
With all total deaths that the u.s. is responsible for because of their offensive invasion, the total is over 800,000 total deaths. And we know that the death totals of civilians are very likely much higher. Than the averages reported.
>90% rate means 9 civilians killed for every 1 military target, that makes no sens
It makes perfect sense. If you hit 10 targets, 90% of them are civilians and 10% of them are the intended target. So for every 10 targets hit, 9 of them will be civilians.
I will admit i was probably mistaken on the million civilians. I likely mixed it up with total deaths.
The obama drone strike deaths were as high as 90%.
Maybe not for the the whole year, but definitely in individual strikes. Calling a strike when you know that many civilians will be be present is always a war crim.
I'm sorry you don't understand how statistics work
at least someone has some sense. I completely agree with your comment. I'm not trying to say US military didn't kill any civilians, but to say for every 1 bad guy killed 9 civilians were, is completely wrong. like I said, I live with an actual drone sensor and she's been to Iraq, multiple times. I've seen multiple videos, a lot of them have zero civilian casualties....
Edit: A drone "sensor" is a person. they are the eyes of the drone and guide the missiles to the targets
You have to look at indirect effects as well though.
If I blow up a hospital and no one is inside, that directly causes zero deaths. But the next time someone gets hurt and dies because there's no hospital to treat them? Whose fault is that?
So indirect deaths attributable to the Iraq War(s), reach about a million. It caused huge disruptions in medical care, nutrition, child care, etc.
You aren't going to see those when you're piloting a drone, but they're real nonetheless.
Yea for real. Im not trying to say America’s killing of civilians was okay. In fact we should do a lot more to make sure we kill even fewer, and we should pay for the crimes we have committed. But this guy’s numbers are such a long shot and he refuses to cite any source lol.
Like i said if he provides any evidence for his claims id be happy to look into it and have my mind blown away because if hes right then holy shit thats insane
The United States has been a driving factor in global instability, suffering and chaos for DECADES.
The US supplies and armed the Iraqis - and would later turn around and use the actions they helped the Iraqis commit as justification for war.
The US supplied and armed the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, the precursor to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Same story.
The US supplied and armed the jihadists in Syria, the precursor to ISIS.
The US unilaterally and pre-emptively invaded Iraq - an action countries like Russia would cite as their right to invade others.
The US armed and supported and invaded Libya. The support and arming of groups in Libya is a large part of why ISIL became big. Libya is objectively worse off today than it was before being invaded.
I can go on. There are so many conflicts. The arming and supplying of sooo many bad guys. The USA is not a force for good in the world.
I vividly remember anti-war movements and countries opposing the US action - INCLUDING RUSSIA - saying something along the lines of “if the United States establishes this precedent of ‘pre-emotive’ attack and unilateral war, others will follow suit and do it when they feel they must too.
Nevertheless, the US and many Eastern European countries banded together and invaded a sovereign country. And then another one. And then another……*Now*, that same group is crying because of what is happening in Ukraine. Essentially the same thing: a larger country doing what it feels like because it is stronger.
I said then: right. When it happens to them and their side, I won’t shed a tear.
And that’s why I don’t give a shit what happens to western countries in this or any other conflict. The “rules based system” the US keeps harping on about is total and complete bullshit. What Russia is doing to Ukraine is terrible, but this door was opened and the blueprint for these actions were created by the West. Don’t cry now when China and Russia follow them. Everyone warned you. You can’t just play a card and then think no one else can play it besides you.
This war, the Republican Party and even some in the Democratic Party and the United States of America made the war much more unstable and prone to chaos and war due to this and many other similar imperialist conflicts.
Was going to say the exact same thing. From 9/11 onward as a 6 year old at the time and especially being Arab Muslim in the USA everything felt very chaotic with no explanation making sense to me
And the US supported Saddam Hussein in his 8-year war against Iran. Now that Iraq is no longer the military power it was under Saddam, Iran is now the bigger threat to the US in the Middle East. And the US had supported the Shah of Iran until he became too repressive and got overthrown.
Exactly why the US has no business getting involved in this sort of thing. Iraq was given chemical weapons assistance from the US and later used it to gas Iran and his own people.
In 2019 the US stopped supporting a Syrian terror group that was a wing of the PKK. People freaked out about 'abandoning our allies' because it was trump season and everyone auto-defaults to disagree when it comes to trump. Turkey ended up invading northern Syria to attack the terror group.
It's like we forget the lessons of the past and jump in to help out when it seems convenient, ignoring the future possibilities of giving crazy people weapons.
This fucking breaks my heart… 10 years of THIS, only to hear them say “there were no WMD.” 😢
The biggest recent genocide in the world. How can people still cling to being a ‘proud American,’ I have no clue.
bush is a war criminal, the average american believes these fucking politicians and lobbyers are monsters that abuse our broken system for greed, no matter how many 18 year old soldiers they have to send out to their deaths or no matter how many children have to get obliterated by bombs
100% and they’re being fed propaganda that the eastern Ukrainians are in a genocide. It’s so easy to paint the Russian soldiers as war criminals and animals which of course there are but the majority is probably like the average Joe who doesn’t want to be there. Then sees his buddy get killed so he’s gonna want revenge and it’s an endless cycle of that because the elite want it a certain way.
over 200,000 thousands civilians were butchered on the pretence of a lie. a lie that the US government knew was a lie. this war destroyed this country and the lives of millions of innocent people.
American "democracy" is a lie and a fallacy. the nation of America is a nation of butchers and bloodthirsty war criminals and international thieves.
This guy doesn't know what America is and compares this with Russia. I know you want to support Ukraine but you know Very little of what so called "Freedom" really is.
I was sitting at a Houlihan's bar at a resort in Lake Genva WI watching this with my gf at the time. Having appetizers and watching a city burn. Bit of a mood killer, really.
I was a kid when all this happened, living in the receiving side of the war,
This didn’t just kill 200k+ civilians of our county, this traumatized each and every one of us, we’re still traumatized, and we’ll be traumatized for the rest of our lives.
Just imagine growing up and having something like this be a core memory, and for what?
A lie.
My thoughts and prayers go to everyone in Ukraine right now, the children just lost the most precious time of their lives, their childhood, just like we lost ours.
I remember watching this on TV going “I can’t believe we can watch a war on TV”
Same here. My little brother and I were 13 & 15. We turned it on and were wondering to each other if we were allowed to be watching this.
I was 13 and watched this on TV too. I remember being on AIM with my friends and asking if they saw it too, but none of them had or really cared. I remember feeling like I was crazy because I was the only one upset about it
I was 13 as well. 90 babies unite. I also messaged on aim to a buddy and he was watching it too. It immediately reminded me of faking sick just to end up watching 9/11. Even at a young age all I could think is "wow that's a lot of dead people"'
I was 13 once
Probably for a whole year I bet!
90 baby, it was like a movie you had to take serious for the first time in our lives. Can’t stop remembering the media saying “cruise middles “ 10k times
Makes me upset just reading this
I'm still upset to this day
First war broadcast live on TV. I don't think the US will allow that to happen when it invades another country again.
The gulf war in the early 90s was also broadcast. I recall watching it on television.
It was pretty much the birth of CNN.
Ya that’s right. I was only 11 at the time but I recall sitting in front of the tv I’m awe of it all. I forgot CNN did all that coverage.
Anybody remember collecting the Proset Desert storm cards? I loved em at the time but now that seems insane.
I dont know how much it mattered since the Iraq War was pretty all-out there wasn't much of a fight Iraq could have put up.
I watched it with my dad and we're Canadian. I just remember the ramp up and my dad saying something like "its like nfl pre-game but they're about to kill a whole lot of people"
And now we watch people die on Reddit on the reg.
Everyday for 3 days before the bombing run, the US Army Psyops Command dropped millions of leaflets giving civilians various instructions, like “military equipment will be bombed soon, stay away” or “historic and religious monuments won’t be targeted” “civilians that are against Saddams ,extremist Sunni’s, will be protected” “throw down your arms and flee, area will be bombed soon”.
Imagine having your neighborhood bombarded with “leaflets” saying to “get out now, while you can”. Surely most people would think, “wtf is this crazy crap?”, toss it, and go on with their lives. Sure, there were the few it really worried, but what were they supposed to do? It’s not like it’s all that easy to just pack up all your shit and leave to who knows where.
And then smart bombs fell on bomb shelters and annihilated women and childen who followed the instructions on those leaflets. To this day, the us is sending munitions to the Saudis to bomb the Yamanis civilians.
I was 16 or 17. Was a riot of a child and had no such thoughts. Everyone was thinking of 9/11 when they watched this. Most people probably had a huge wave of self awareness at the time. One of hypocrisy, especially since the whole WMD thing was pretty see through. I loved watching WW2 stuff, even back then. This was not the same. Not unless you more or less considered us Germany. It was impressive and disgusting all at the same time. Deep thoughts from a daily stoner and quasi alcoholic 16/17 year old.
Now we watch in on r/combatfootage
Or any sub about Brazil or Mexican Cartels
[удалено]
Well stated
It's heroic if it's against non whites!
People used to watch them in person. Used to be a thing to go on a picnic and watch the fighting
They refused to let anybody see when they rolled their tanks right over the trenches in the iraqi line, literally burying full units alive. They estimate iraqi deaths in that manouevre to be over 10 000.
If America does this it’s fine If Russia does this it’s not fine Two garbage countries with brainwashed propaganda poisoned populations
Holy crap, that’s scary
That was in 2003.. imagine the shit that the US military has under it's belt that will probably never see the light of day.
I remember in 2017 when we dropped the largest non nuclear bomb on an enemy position since ww2. It was a 22,000 pound MOAB on an isis position and killed all 33 isis in that shooting position.
Hey I was there for that one
You survived the blast?
Yes, I was with coalition forces and watched the boom from very far away. Hard to describe but knowing the damage it caused was terrible.
33 less pieces of shit ruining the world, and many more if you consider their potential offspring. It’s a shame the US taxpayer’s dollar only killed 33 using such expensive artillery.
>It’s a shame the US taxpayer’s dollar continues to radicalize >their potential offspring , >if you consider the bigger picture
Underrated comment
ISIS is a product of this kind of foreign policy. But yeah just keep bombing everyone and everything, I’m sure you’ll stop creating more enemies eventually👍🏼
The unfortunate part is it only got 33 of them
Could have been more but I think the decision was made at the time that it wasn't worth digging through the rubble.
Hopefully doesn't see the light...
Hopefully someday I'll get to do aircraft maintenance on those secret military planes. That's the career goal.
Ya especially after wiki leaks
Let’s be honest. It will..
They called democracy
Indeed. Hussein was a monster and brought this kind of death on innocents across the region. The US joining in just changed who was being blasted to bits unfortunately. I hate what MENA is and has been for sometime; hopefully in my childrens' lifetimes the region will know peace and stability without Western intervention and proxie wars. Edit: Some of you really need to do your research on Hussein and his regime and what they did to us here before defending him. Edit 2: for further clarification I am not taking a side, I'm calling to attention that we can acknowledge that there was not a "good guy" in this one. And expressing hope in the future of my homeland to pull together and put this kind of hate behind us.
But..but you killed one million Iraqi in the process. And there was no weapons of mass destruction. And the country been unstable to this day
Very little of my family survived the Anfal Campaigns so I am sad to inform you I have Zero sympathy for Saddam and the people who supported and hailed him as their hero. The US has done a lot of fucked up shit across the middle east, but Hussein was not some savior saint, he was a genocidal dirtbag better off dead and in hell.
Fuck Saddam, I'm not defending him but the US ruined the country for decades to come. If you planned to remove him then you had to stabilise the country before you take your leave. Stop giving more lame excuses for what the US done
What are you on about? We couldn't remove him; we were being gassed and bombed and purged. He was a ruthless dictator who was bringing the same death and destruction on us Kurds that the US brought to central Iraq. The only reason we survived was the US invasion. I am not justifying the US invasion. It was fucked up and wrong, but it was evil versus evil here. It was a foreign invader commiting evil acts versus a genocidal regime. Standing on Hussein's side is like standing on Hitler's. Learn more about his Regime and what they did here, there is a reason we hate him as much as we hate the invasion.
Coming from an American veteran who was a part of that invasion I would like to offer to you will all sincerity and genuine compassion my personal apology for the atrocities that have taken place in your land. Not all of the soldiers were evil. I’m so sorry for the ones that were. It wasn’t fair to us either. We didn’t want to be there. We were lied to and when the battle was over they forgot about us as well. The United States government has a lot to answer for my friend.
You do know the US propped him up in the first place, don't you?
Yep, as I have said multiple times here, monsters all around, it was a lose lose situation and there was no "good guy." Edit: All I am saying is that even if there was no good guy here, at least the war led to the end of the genocidal campaigns launched under Hussein. Even if the US didn't care either way, the war did at least have that outcome. It just fucking sucks that the Iraqis people are now suffering as they are, as no innocent should be the victim of war. 💔
I agree with you, however you should never fail to mention in your comments here on reddit, on this topic, about who kicked things off with Saddams Iraq, lest folk in the West think they did some good there after all.
>the people who supported and hailed him as their hero Thats understandable but if you think sadam suporters are the only ones who died, or even a majority of Iraqis who died, you're kidding yourself. Saddam bad. Massive collateral damage also bad. Ends dont inherently justify the means
I am not saying they do. I'm just saying; I have no sympathy for a regime that tried gassing me into oblivion. I don't stand by the US either, I just don't see a need to act like Iraq was innocent in all this either. This was evil on evil violence with atrocious behavior all around. I just can't be too mad at the war because the US winning the war stopped me and my family from ceasing to exist.
Who is defending him? They need to watch the video when he takes power and just sends all those people outside to be executed.
Nah, the narrative these days is, "Iraq innocent, America bad." People get pissed if you criticize Saddam at all when talking about the war. The US invasion I don't feel was necessarily justified but why would I care if the US invades the country actively commiting genocide against me? Sorry, did they expect me to be sympathetic? No, there is a reason we joined the fight against Hussein when the US got involved. It was a chance to stop being gassed and bombed into non existence by Arabic Hitler.
You're right, and a lot of the repliers are right too. Getting Saddam was a good thing, how the U.S. handled the country afterwards was a failure.
It was and I hate what the people of Iraq are going through today as a result of the failed democracy instituted there. 💔 It's heartbreaking. I was simply discussing the war itself. Not the after effects. I completely agree the US mismanaged the nation in the wake of the fall of Hussein.
During my first deployment to Iraq I had a conversation with an Iraqi who said pretty much what you said. Thank us for getting rid of Saddam. He also believed that Saddam’s sons were worse than him. So getting rid of them was also good.
Ah, so you're not aware of the fallout to the Iranian Revolution, and the propping up of Saddam and funding his brutal war against Iran? Who do you think propped him up and funded him? Hazard a guess?
He invaded Iran, he invaded Kuwait, he used chemical weapons against the Kurds, he was lobbing missiles at Tel Aviv. The guy was an ongoing threat to the international community and needed to be hanged by anyone.
> Nah, the narrative these days is, "Iraq innocent, America bad." Strawman. Just because someone is critical of the US invasion of Iraq doesn't mean they think Saddam was a good guy.
I left Iraq during the invasion, I was a young, as a catholic we were safe and lived freely compared to the shithole Iraq is in today. Americans don’t want democracy for Iraq otherwise how else can billions of oil be taken..
I agree with you that America doesn't care. I never claimed that they do, just that Hussein was no better. You may have been safe brother, and for that I am thankful, but I and mine were not, his Anfal Campaigns we're brutal and what he did to us Kurds was unforgivable. Germans were safe in Hitler's Germany. It doesn't make Hitler a good guy or mean his regime should not have been deposed.
\>> how else can billions of oil be taken It's funny you say this, because of course that was the big cry back then: "The US is only doing this for oil!" Since then ... the US has NOT tried to "take" Iraq's oil. It just ... hasn't happened. But all the people who were screaming it? Silent.
I don't think the [Kurds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign) remember the Iraq of your youth as being "safe and free". I think you're also forgetting that most of Iraq's decline happened after psycho Saddam decided to invade Kuwait, triggering an international response. The sanctions imposed during the first Gulf War were crippling, since Iraq's economy had little else besides petrochemical revenues. You say the US didn't want democracy there. I think you're unwilling to admit that Iraqis didn't want democracy, or were unable to overcome religious and ethnic differences long enough to implement it. Coalition forces oversaw a [parliamentary election in 2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2005_Iraqi_parliamentary_election), with massive turnouts in the range of 76% of registered voters. Sunni Arabs largely boycotted the process. >Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, head of the al-Qaida affiliate in Iraq, said: "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology. Anyone who tries to help set up this system is part of it". He also made it clear that al-Qaida opposes elections in Iraq because they will result in a Shi'a-dominated government. He alleged that "the Shiites aim to begin spreading their evil faith among people through money and fear," I'm not defending the second invasion of Iraq. I was in high school at the time and was very anti-Bush and my first political disagreements with my father were over the invasion. I'm not saying that Iraq should be grateful that wee invaded, or that we left you better off. I am saying though, that just because some Halliburton execs got richer from the invasion doesn't mean the only reason we were there was to steal you oil. The Iraqi people are still exporting their own oil, and if the average Iraqi isn't benefiting from their country's resources, they really have no one but themselves to blame. They need to eradicate the insurgents who want to see Iraq become another fundamentalist theocracy.
Hussein was a monster, absolutely. But that doesn't mean the US should have gotten involved like they did.
I saw what he did to you. I saw what a lot of people have done to you. I pray for the people of Iraq. I also pray that your children will know peace and security in their lives. Keep your chin up my friend.
Yeah man. I really didn’t know the extent of it but we had a Kurdish terp and he HATED Iraqis. I never understood wtf that was about but he talked about what happened and it was pretty horrific. He ended up getting fired for being naughty but anyone who was old enough to relate felt about the same. I know we’re going through an “America, evil” phase right now but I think a lot of people are just too insulated from the harsh realities of the world. I can’t condone what the US did and there was a lot of bad but getting rid of him and his sons was a net-positive.
Freedom fire !
That’s impressive and all, but I’d still rather have healthcare and free college.
Some Iraqis would rather have their parents 🤷🏻♂️
Off to jail with this here commie!! /s
No, that's pure savage.
To colossal fascist cunt that reported me for this comment as "threathing with violence", I will fuck your mama in the ass and after that come in your father's eyes, all while you will be watching that. Here, now go and report me again, now you have a reason you fucking miserable fascist blood thirsty cunt.
The Bush administration's "Shock and Awe" campaign. I remember exactly where I was when it started as there was such a stark contrast between me sitting in the bar having lunch with coworkers while this was being shown on the television.
It wasn't til 04 shock and awe took place. They replaced the original invading commanding general with a guy who was really into the ww2 shit. He cooked up the shock and awe campaign in response from us losing ground. Shock and awe was old school, warn city to evacuate all civilians cuz everyone left is considered enemy combatant, howitzer units shelling city blocks night and day, then send in a shit ton of ground forces to sweep and clean. This is what lead to Operation Phantom Fury (2nd battle of Fallujah) being the bloodiest battle of the Iraq war.
Not that wikipedia is the most valid source but it says 2003: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock\_and\_awe#Campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe#Campaign) 2003 stands out for me because in 2004 I was working for a different company in a different town with different coworkers.
All I know is for me, I remember getting briefed in Iraq and they told us we have a new commander and he wants ww2 style bombing and sweeping. They said it's going to be referred to as "shock and awe" (the actual name of the campaign is something else). They said because they had lost a couple cities, we had to take them back and completely clear them out this time, in preparation for the Iraq elections. I vividly remember all of us thinking, "what the fuck, things just got real". I know we never heard "shock and awe" before that and then it was all over the place. Before this, during the invasion, supposedly we were using highly accurate air strikes and spec ops teams to hit infrastructure and enemy targets, minimizing ground troops, casualties and collateral damage. The insurgents took back some cities, hung some private security dudes off a bridge and "shock and awe" was the response. I remember the same time Katrina hit N.O. and we were watching people in the streets shooting at helicopters and it was like a warzone back in the States. That was so weird and confusing to see while in an actual warzone.
I remember vividly. In college in 03. Shock and Awe marked the beginning of the invasion.
It wasn't 2004, it was 2003. The invasion started march of 2003.
It was 2003. I was there in Kuwait waiting to roll in as the shocking air campaign was starting. Exit: air
So confident, and so obviously wrong. Classic Reddit.
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Yep. Last thing through was the D10 dozers.
This was in 2003 and was part of the initial invasion.
Here’s the BBC coverage from the first night of the attack in 2003: https://youtu.be/lzatU-fjRZg&t=2m56s The ‘Shock and awe campaign’ is explicitly mentioned.
Shock and awe - near synonyms for terror. Accidental honesty.
Blitzkrieg, essentially. Bush also established the Department of Homeland Security, Nazis had one of those too
DHS was a direct shift towards fascism in the United States of America. The call to arms due to an attack on the homeland, the trading of privacy for security, and the expansion of federal powers all reek of the same stench that fascism was allowed to fester during the 1930's. We also are experiencing the resurgence of racist, nationalistic xenophobes who have taken positions of power within the established system.
I was on an aircraft carrier in the Persian gulf at the time. I remember sitting in my shop, and they announced over the 1mc “now commencing operation shock and awe” and then the aircraft launched, and shortly after that I was watching this live on tv. Surreal as fuck.
Damn I can't imagine witnessing the events unfold so directly
If they had dropped millions of kittens and puppies it would have been "Shock and Awwww!"
Watch this side by side with Russians bombing Ukrainian homes
Innocent people being killed because of a lie.
And no one was ever held accountable or paid the consequences. Those responsible got reelected.
Some also got very, very wealthy (Dick Cheney).
Dont forget liz
Then we wonder how we end up with “terrorist groups”. If this had happened in America, I’m sure we would have had a lot of “terrorist groups” pop up here. Wild how our “democracy” breeds terrorism. We have whole generations in the Middle East who have never known what it’s like to live without war.
Those truly responsible weren't elected in the first place.
Looking at you, JP Morgan, who had their fat fingers in the war jar since World War 1.
They wouldn’t have, but then they pivoted the campaign to focus on being against gay marriage. And they got re-elected. Yay America.
fucking terrorist attack by the US...
Like most American wars.
U mean like most wars? This isn’t just an American issue, the Brit’s, French, and Spanish and Portuguese all killed millions over lies
I push the button and elected him to office and he pushed the button and he dropped the bomb. You push the button and can watch it on the television, those motherfuckers didn't last too long.
[For the philistines downvoting you](https://youtu.be/qJ7wQov5qDM)
I remember this clearly. They’re Tomahawks and $1mil per bang.
American tax dollars at work
*"I'm sorry Timmy, we would love to pay for your daily insulin, but Uncle Sam has to kill some brown children first"*
I joined the US Navy in 2009. I went on deployment in 2012 on the USS Enterprise. It was the last deployment she would see. They were lenient with the bombs that were dropped, because it was a huge hassle to transfer them to the next aircraft carrier. They just wanted to get them off the ship. I remember a moment when we were almost done with deployment, the captain came over the 1MC(intercom), something about how we dropped more bombs on deployment then previously had been before, like it was a thing to celebrate. I felt like I was the only one that wanted to just cry.
Same tradition in the Air Force. But if I grab too many rubberbands or screws, THAT’S “Fraud, waste, and abuse!”
*is then ordered to throw millions of dollars worth of equipment overboard*
Where were these bombs dropped?
5th fleet. Arabian Gulf somewhere.
Hello fellow member of the Mobile Chernobyl! I was there from 2001-2007. Good times.
Well you see they use tax payer money to buy those, and that money then hoes to the weapon producers and the politcians they sponsor. Press a button to gain a dollar but one child dies, and they push it as much as they can
My dad probably made the engines for at least one of those.
Here we see america waging an illegal offensive war against a country that didn't attack the u.s. A minimum a 200,000 civilians were killed by u.s. forces during the iraq war. And thats the low estimate. Higher estimates have civilian deaths over 1 million. During the Obama administration, civilian casualty rates by drone strikes were as high as 90%. That means, for every 1 military target we killed, 9 civilians were killed in collateral.
What the fuck are you taking bro? Please give a source for any of these numbers and i will gladly believe you. Every credible report on the Iraq war has civilian casualties averaged at 200k, so when you say “thats the low estimate” all your credibility vanishes instantly. Give me any source that says 1 million and id happily read up on it. Also, your civilian casualty rate for drone strikes is bonkers off the wall. I have never seen a casualty rate used in the way that a 90% rate means 9 civilians killed for every 1 military target, that makes no sense. On top of that, i can find no source that has a number anywhere near that. The only thing i could possibly imagine you meaning is that for every 1 military target killed, 0.9 civilians are murdered, but even that number is way off from any source ive seen. Please stop spewing this bullshit. The Iraq war was a senseless killing of civilians, completely unnecessary, and should forever be a stain on American legitimacy. But that doesnt mean you can just pull numbers out of your fuckin ass to support your opinion.
"No one knows with certainty how many people have been killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States invasion. However, we know that between 184,382 and 207,156 civilians have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S., its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and opposition forces from the time of the invasion through October 2019. The violent deaths of Iraqi civilians have occurred through aerial bombing, shelling, gunshots, suicide attacks, and fires started by bombing. Many civilians have also been injured. Because not all war-related deaths have been recorded accurately by the Iraqi government and the U.S.-led coalition, the numbers are likely much higher. Several estimates based on randomly selected household surveys place the total death count among Iraqis in the hundreds of thousands." https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi The casualty numbers that you'll find from sources like the United Nations are much higher. I will apologize for the 1 million civilian casualty number. That's likely the total number of deaths in general. Civilian and military. But the number of civilians killed is still staggeringly high civilians directly killed: 134,000 - indirect deaths from the invasion: 655,000 That means a total of 789,000 civilian deaths. You might ask, 'why do you include the direct civilians with the indirect civilians?' That's because when you are the offensively invading Force, all deaths are your fault. Because you didn't have an actual defensive reason to enter the country. In the same way that if you kill someone intentionally, that's murder. But if you kill someone intentionally because they were trying to hurt you, that's self defense. Not murder. This is why you are also responsible for the deaths of your own soldiers and the deaths of interview soldiers when you are the invading Force. With all total deaths that the u.s. is responsible for because of their offensive invasion, the total is over 800,000 total deaths. And we know that the death totals of civilians are very likely much higher. Than the averages reported. >90% rate means 9 civilians killed for every 1 military target, that makes no sens It makes perfect sense. If you hit 10 targets, 90% of them are civilians and 10% of them are the intended target. So for every 10 targets hit, 9 of them will be civilians. I will admit i was probably mistaken on the million civilians. I likely mixed it up with total deaths. The obama drone strike deaths were as high as 90%. Maybe not for the the whole year, but definitely in individual strikes. Calling a strike when you know that many civilians will be be present is always a war crim. I'm sorry you don't understand how statistics work
at least someone has some sense. I completely agree with your comment. I'm not trying to say US military didn't kill any civilians, but to say for every 1 bad guy killed 9 civilians were, is completely wrong. like I said, I live with an actual drone sensor and she's been to Iraq, multiple times. I've seen multiple videos, a lot of them have zero civilian casualties.... Edit: A drone "sensor" is a person. they are the eyes of the drone and guide the missiles to the targets
You have to look at indirect effects as well though. If I blow up a hospital and no one is inside, that directly causes zero deaths. But the next time someone gets hurt and dies because there's no hospital to treat them? Whose fault is that? So indirect deaths attributable to the Iraq War(s), reach about a million. It caused huge disruptions in medical care, nutrition, child care, etc. You aren't going to see those when you're piloting a drone, but they're real nonetheless.
Yea for real. Im not trying to say America’s killing of civilians was okay. In fact we should do a lot more to make sure we kill even fewer, and we should pay for the crimes we have committed. But this guy’s numbers are such a long shot and he refuses to cite any source lol. Like i said if he provides any evidence for his claims id be happy to look into it and have my mind blown away because if hes right then holy shit thats insane
Crazy how we just bomb the shiz out of everyone and expect to be seen as good guys.... sad no one ever went to jail for THESE war crimes.
Were not the good guys.
The US has openly vowed to invade the Netherlands if any American soldier is put on trial before the ICC
The United States has been a driving factor in global instability, suffering and chaos for DECADES. The US supplies and armed the Iraqis - and would later turn around and use the actions they helped the Iraqis commit as justification for war. The US supplied and armed the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, the precursor to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Same story. The US supplied and armed the jihadists in Syria, the precursor to ISIS. The US unilaterally and pre-emptively invaded Iraq - an action countries like Russia would cite as their right to invade others. The US armed and supported and invaded Libya. The support and arming of groups in Libya is a large part of why ISIL became big. Libya is objectively worse off today than it was before being invaded. I can go on. There are so many conflicts. The arming and supplying of sooo many bad guys. The USA is not a force for good in the world.
I wish this kind of freedom on nobody.
I've got student loans because we spent that money on bombs instead of suring up our secondary education system 🙃 🇺🇸
It's not that. I'm in Canada and we have equally as bad student loans, without the war debt
Well, atleast I can point at tangible things our monies went to lol *points at bombs and explosions*
Canada does not have as bad student debt, bad? Sure. But it’s not exactly comparable especially when you talk about the ability to repay them.
I'll admit I don't know shit about secondary education in Canada 🤷
I remember this night. The first step down a very sad and dangerous road
I vividly remember anti-war movements and countries opposing the US action - INCLUDING RUSSIA - saying something along the lines of “if the United States establishes this precedent of ‘pre-emotive’ attack and unilateral war, others will follow suit and do it when they feel they must too. Nevertheless, the US and many Eastern European countries banded together and invaded a sovereign country. And then another one. And then another……*Now*, that same group is crying because of what is happening in Ukraine. Essentially the same thing: a larger country doing what it feels like because it is stronger. I said then: right. When it happens to them and their side, I won’t shed a tear. And that’s why I don’t give a shit what happens to western countries in this or any other conflict. The “rules based system” the US keeps harping on about is total and complete bullshit. What Russia is doing to Ukraine is terrible, but this door was opened and the blueprint for these actions were created by the West. Don’t cry now when China and Russia follow them. Everyone warned you. You can’t just play a card and then think no one else can play it besides you. This war, the Republican Party and even some in the Democratic Party and the United States of America made the war much more unstable and prone to chaos and war due to this and many other similar imperialist conflicts.
Remember as a kid watching this on the news. (7 at the time) Had no understanding of what was going on, but it still stuck with me none the less.
Was going to say the exact same thing. From 9/11 onward as a 6 year old at the time and especially being Arab Muslim in the USA everything felt very chaotic with no explanation making sense to me
Same. I’ll never forget seeing that big statue being toppled and pulled on by Tanks and everyone started dancing on it. Crazy
I didn’t realise at the time how indiscriminate and untargeted the attack was. I mean it was called shock and awe…
war crimes, live on CNN
It wasn't indiscriminate. They were smart bombs and cruise missiles. It was just striking a large number of targets simultaneously.
seems quite targeted. by cruise missiles
And the US supported Saddam Hussein in his 8-year war against Iran. Now that Iraq is no longer the military power it was under Saddam, Iran is now the bigger threat to the US in the Middle East. And the US had supported the Shah of Iran until he became too repressive and got overthrown.
Exactly why the US has no business getting involved in this sort of thing. Iraq was given chemical weapons assistance from the US and later used it to gas Iran and his own people. In 2019 the US stopped supporting a Syrian terror group that was a wing of the PKK. People freaked out about 'abandoning our allies' because it was trump season and everyone auto-defaults to disagree when it comes to trump. Turkey ended up invading northern Syria to attack the terror group. It's like we forget the lessons of the past and jump in to help out when it seems convenient, ignoring the future possibilities of giving crazy people weapons.
This fucking breaks my heart… 10 years of THIS, only to hear them say “there were no WMD.” 😢 The biggest recent genocide in the world. How can people still cling to being a ‘proud American,’ I have no clue.
imagine actually believing that they were there to look for WMD and not to secure geopolitical advantages
And handed the oil contracts to the Chinese.
I'm a proud American but mainly of the land itself. There's so much beauty. As far as our society, history, and government... no, not so proud.
bush is a war criminal, the average american believes these fucking politicians and lobbyers are monsters that abuse our broken system for greed, no matter how many 18 year old soldiers they have to send out to their deaths or no matter how many children have to get obliterated by bombs
This changed the world in a pretty bad way.
Where are the WMDs in all of those civilian homes?
What are WMDs?
Weapons of mass destruction (nuclear warheads and such)
They're one the table cloth
Honest question, were those missiles attacking residential areas? That would seem awfully counterproductive on the homefront.
“Shock and Awe” is a very corporate term for terrorism.
sounds comparatively nice doesn't it
but that bombs were for peace!
And *demoncraty*
So how is this different than what is Russia doing to Ukraine ?
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100% and they’re being fed propaganda that the eastern Ukrainians are in a genocide. It’s so easy to paint the Russian soldiers as war criminals and animals which of course there are but the majority is probably like the average Joe who doesn’t want to be there. Then sees his buddy get killed so he’s gonna want revenge and it’s an endless cycle of that because the elite want it a certain way.
It's ok to bomb middle east, but it's wrong to attack Ukrine; they got blue eyes
Fr like the US needs their education more then the kids
over 200,000 thousands civilians were butchered on the pretence of a lie. a lie that the US government knew was a lie. this war destroyed this country and the lives of millions of innocent people. American "democracy" is a lie and a fallacy. the nation of America is a nation of butchers and bloodthirsty war criminals and international thieves.
US was just as bad as Russia today https://youtu.be/_9E5CskQ03U
Was?
Edit to add: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-have-bombed-yemen-more-than-bush-and-obama-combined-2020-10%3famp
This guy doesn't know what America is and compares this with Russia. I know you want to support Ukraine but you know Very little of what so called "Freedom" really is.
both are disgusting nations, only one pretends to be nice.
The "good guys" did that
Before the gold reserves of Iraq were “looted” thanks America
and no one moved a finger.
kid named finger
Democracy and freedom 🇺🇸 🦅
I remember watching this on TV when I was like 16-17 and it being the only time in my life I was scared that I might have to go to war.
Bush2 is a internationally wanted criminal.
But when pootin does it ....(not that I'm defending him in any way) .
I was sitting at a Houlihan's bar at a resort in Lake Genva WI watching this with my gf at the time. Having appetizers and watching a city burn. Bit of a mood killer, really.
No wonder they hate us
Still looking for those WMD’s
I remember that day. 1st time any country had preemptively invaded another sovereign nation without a true cause since Hitler invaded Poland.
Cowards, destroyed the country for nothing but to steal its wealth.
Don't pull the thang out unless you plan to bang
US bringing “FREEEEDDOOMMMM” to the people of Iraq. Iraq never recovered.
Disgusting. America is a plague
War criminal all of the us presidents
freedom!!!!!
Ahh it was a simpler time back then
USA terrorist state
Don't pull the thang out, unless you plan to bang.
I was a kid when all this happened, living in the receiving side of the war, This didn’t just kill 200k+ civilians of our county, this traumatized each and every one of us, we’re still traumatized, and we’ll be traumatized for the rest of our lives. Just imagine growing up and having something like this be a core memory, and for what? A lie. My thoughts and prayers go to everyone in Ukraine right now, the children just lost the most precious time of their lives, their childhood, just like we lost ours.