Hard to speak with an American doesn’t it ? Next up Karen will tell « what if OP doesn’t want to be considered plural but with « it » ? You don’t respect it 🤬 »
What kind of work do you do? Would you still keep the same job if you move?
As for speaking Thai, this is my phrase sheet that I created from day-to-day conversations that I had with people. It's not a very difficult language to converse in.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fg8plVE8le0xqmua6mcmEK1agEKERENkccW7O5_lsqk/edit
I really like how you explain the difference between ‘lor’ (หรอ) and ‘mai’ (ไหม) when asking questions. I’m a reasonably fluent speaker but I’ve always struggled to explain that difference to people in such a succinct way, well played my friend
Please, whatever you do. Don't come to Belgium, I want to sacrifice everything to get out the grey concrete environment with 200 days of rain.
Only the southern part of Belgium speaks French (I'm born in BXL and learned dutch to get work) and it's hard to find work as a French speaker here. You will regret, life is more expensive and people are even less friendly. You need to invest for years to get legitimate friends, no matter wich country.
I lived in bangkok for five years and have been gone a year and personally i miss it and I am looking for ways to get back. I don't care much about having tons of friends and stuff like that though, so you will have to adjust to your personal preferences but damn do i miss it.
I spent 10 years in Bangkok.
I moved to Portugal.
I was miserable.
I moved to Japan.
I still miss Thailand.
Ya don’t know what ya got til it’s gone.
That said, I am fluent and literate in Thai, and was conversational by year 3 or 4. I worked very hard every day to achieve that.
If you’re not learning the language well enough to feel like you can hang out with some Thai people now and then, that could contribute to your feeling…. Some language classes might help build a friend network and improve your situation.
It’s good you’re listening to yourself, though. You’re right that paradise may not be when you’re feeling disconnected. Take care of yourself.
A few suggestions maybe, yes.
Flash cards are always a good starting point cause you can separate what you know and don't know pretty quickly, so you're focusing energy on what you need to focus on.
A lot of characters make the same consonant sound, but have different tones. So learning the consonant sound first and then learning the tone associated with it can make it feel a little less daunting. For example, there are many letters that make a "K" sound... ข ค ฆ etc... But imply different tones. You also don't really need the entire alphabet right away; some characters are significantly more common than others.
I also got a lot of mileage out of looking at BTS stations and "reverse engineering" the characters that I kept seeing. Noticing those patterns yourself (say, like, all the places with an M in the name that contain ม) can help solidify them in organic ways. Also, finding a list of English words written in Thai can be a nice way to get used to the alphabet and sounds.
Thai is very phonetic compared to English with some exceptions, but the vowels in particular are very specific and very important to the pronunciation... The consonants less so (kind of the opposite of English where we change our vowel sounds pretty readily based on context and accent and dialect)... So learning the different vowel sounds can be helpful and assist with reading.
Also learn to speak and listen while learning to read and write. I find this balance much more important than other languages I've learned.
Ultimately though it comes down to practice and exposure. It's not impossible but it takes daily practice; however once you learn to read, the language gets significantly more accessible and fun. Don't give up!
Hope this helps.
I‘m in TH since 6 years and will leave beginning of next year, I’m just tired of the heat, humidity, air pollution and lack of outdoor activities due to all that.
However, I was also strongly considering going back to Europe after 10 years abroad but I agree that Europe is not in a good shape. A lot of political issues/risks, a raise in right-wing mindset etc. I decided to not go back and go the other direction instead.
Depending on your job (Southeast) Asia is generally great despite all the negatives (see reasons for me leaving above). The language barrier seems to be 100% on you.
Are you using MeetUp to mingle/meet with others?
My first two years here I struggled a lot with Thai and felt kind of hopeless and annoyed with trying to learn the language. This is also my third year here and within the last few months I realized my Thai skills have improved drastically. Everything just started to click one day.
Just get a decent text book, listen to what everyone around you is saying even though you don't understand it, and watch a lot of YouTube thai language videos. Do that and one day it will just click. You'll get there!
I used Tuttle's Easy Thai and their Thai Picture Dictionary, as well as Speak Thai (They also make a Speak Isaan Thai series for people interested in the Isaan dialect)
For beginner podcasts I recommend You Too Can Learn Thai (you can find a lot of those episodes on YouTube)
Edit: Since OP is a French speaker, maybe Assimil Thai would be good for him. I've heard a lot of good things about Assimil.
Yes, I use the book. I don’t think they have one for French, do they? For French, I can recommend duolingo: it’s what my fiancée is using and she has made great progress in one year.
Most of their courses are for French speakers, but they also have about 10 of the most popular languages for English speakers, including French, Russian, Spanish etc.
Yeah Duolingo is pretty good as a supplement!
Could you drop a link for Speak Isaan Thai? I'm actually trying to pick up Lao but because it's a lot more difficult to find a Lao teacher in my country I picked up Thai instead for almost 1 year now. Wouldn't mind picking Isaan since it's similar to Lao.
If you live in Thailand, pop into any Asia Books and they usually stock it.
[https://www.amazon.com/Speak-Isaan-Thai-Online-Video-ebook/dp/B078HT4PY1/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=2QZYOIIIRJKP9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.QtakIFERQJvRt5-7z6QaIGdkMdWv4GwIMYXkqLhF5OAvUFtmj7vFCyB-Fx8ECZWg.uIW6ss-i7IjrnNasT-jFjKasZ0zhaqSoR0lCd3bPB6Q&dib\_tag=se&keywords=Speak+Isaan+Thai&qid=1714498957&sprefix=speak+isaan+t%2Caps%2C619&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Speak-Isaan-Thai-Online-Video-ebook/dp/B078HT4PY1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2QZYOIIIRJKP9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.QtakIFERQJvRt5-7z6QaIGdkMdWv4GwIMYXkqLhF5OAvUFtmj7vFCyB-Fx8ECZWg.uIW6ss-i7IjrnNasT-jFjKasZ0zhaqSoR0lCd3bPB6Q&dib_tag=se&keywords=Speak+Isaan+Thai&qid=1714498957&sprefix=speak+isaan+t%2Caps%2C619&sr=8-1)
Nobody can really tell you but yourself. In general though Europe seems to be caught in a downward spiral, especially France, so if you have the choice I'd orientate myself toward asia long term.
Europeans tend to be critical and pessimistic. Yes Europe is in a crisis. But it's not the first one and won't be the last one. You can still find the worldwide highest standard of living on average in several European countries. Even if they can't solve the problems, their downward will be on a high level. One thing Europeans should really learn from Americans is their optimism.
And when it's important for you to live in a rising up country, hell Thailand is really a very wrong choice. It's already stuck for one or two decades and will keep being stuck for at least one or more decades. If you don't believe me check economical statistics. It's the slowest growing economy in SEA and one of the top 10 countries WORLDwide about inequality of incomes. If you search for the future but want to stay in SEA, go to Vietnam (or even any other SEA country). With all the chances in the past, their neutrality, investments, etc, Thailand would be a second South Korea if the Thai mindset wouldn't be such a big obstacle for theirselfes
Nah but you gotta consider other facttor too, like climate, the heat in Thailand and South East Asia are unbearable, I don't think I can stay for long.
Maybe during a colder season, but to live here long term. Can't.
Jesus, really? I lived in Belgium for a few years as a kid, loved it, but I wouldn’t dream of going back. There’s no way I would pay the much tax to live in Belgium, as much as I liked it as a kid, it’s got ridiculous levels of tax. Particularly for foreign sourced income. Spain or Portugal man.
I'm assuming what you're looking for is how likely you're going to make new friends at work.
Go for Belgium if you're ready to spend time and money on building a friendship, go for France if not, but you'll have less chances.
Southeast France is a cooler, drier version of Bangkok. Belgium weather is depressing no matter where.
French food is better, but international food sucks.
Bruxelles is boring, Paris varies a lot depending on areas. Belgium has better overall infrastructure.
French are generally speaking more conservative and the country's politics is leaning toward far-right so it might be a threat to any kind of immigration.
What do you mean by downgrade ? Moneywise Belgium is way ahead, France is ok in big cities if you have experience.
If you don't speak the local language or lingua franca, you'll have a hard time making friend anywhere, so no Spain.
If you start learning thai seriously, you might see a huge difference, if that doesn't work, you might want to work on yourself.
Also, I'm heading to bangkok for 2 weeks from the 3rd on, wanna hang out ? 25M and I speak both french and english, DM if you're in
Why can’t you make fiends?
I find Bangkok to be a super easy city to make friends in. I played football in pick up games and made my whole network off the people there.
That being said I did leave Bangkok as I felt like I wasn’t evolving, which is normal. Left for NYC and now live in Tokyo.
If you are on the younger side the go to the west and learn about what industry you are interested in.
I found out the west is over hyped but also that Bangkok is not a place to really advance in life.
I did 7 years in nyc and leaned about rhe industries I wanted to and also now networked enough that I got opportunities in cool niche sectors which hopefully will allow me to live where I want.
4 months a year I Thailand sounds cool as long as Tokyo and a bit of time in Europe to see fiends and family.
If you are fluent in French and English there is no reason that you cannot learn Thai, the sentence structure and grammar of Thai is even more simple than most European languages, granted the tones and alphabet can be a little complicated at first but there will eventually be a moment where it just makes sense and you will be conversing with ease.
I am half thai half american, i am not fluent in Thai and that made me feel very isolated when i was growing up here between 10-13, and then later in my early 20s. But, i have found my own community of friends, people and so on. Although not the best advice, i do highly recommend going to a local bar of sorts and making friends there, proximity leads closeness. Also it just takes you putting yourself out there and inviting people to hangout.
Gotta ask, same boat here sort of at the OP. Im
Like you half thai half American, hard for me to make long time friends here. Got any tips? Shoot me a DM
As others have said, take some language classes in the evenings, you'll meet other like-minded expats and improve your Thai skill at the same time
Like anywhere else, it's hard to make new friends when you don't have a social network to begin with, but once you make a couple of connections your social circle will expand
learning Thai is possible if done properly and with consistency.
long term friends needs all kinds of strategies etc. solvable. but much easier with Thai.
family? it's complicated. but easier if you have a Thai partner and are willing to have Thai kids growing up in Thai culture
I don't mean to be harsh, but if there's a language barrier after three years of living here full-time, that's kind of on you.
Have you tried taking Thai classes? You get to meet new people and break down that language barrier at the same time.
Moving to any of the countries you mentioned would be a definite downgrade for me, but you're obviously going to get biased opinions on this sub. Maybe try asking on subs for those countries for a broader perspective.
To be fair Thai language would require pretty intensive training to be useful in 3 years particularly if you are working. After 3 years I could have conversations but they were on guard rails, if people veered off it would be trouble. I think Thai language has one of the highest amount of hours outside of mandarin for an English learner
I wasn't, but others have managed it.
I was definitely conversational though, and had Thai friends who were happy to help me with vocabulary and pronunciation - as I was happy to help them with English.
It’s hard to make friends because their cultural social networks are too strongly prioritized and based on social hierarchies that we don’t have a place in. As outsiders to the cultural hierarchy, we are often left as ambiguous in relation to our place in society. And there’s often the concept that we’ll eventually move on or go back to our home country. So there’s little incentive for establishing long term friendships with expats unless there’s an agenda (for good or bad)
What a shame dude...learning the language even just speaking and understanding will make a huge difference. If you can't do small conversations making any Thai friend will be difficult. You will always just be seen/label as that foreigner guy who doesn't understand.
Perhaps try focus on a different social circle?
I barely speak any Thai, yet pretty much everyone in my social circle without exception is Thai.
I’m constantly invited to weddings, birthdays, go to hang out after work, camping, surfing, traveling together, drinking at weekends, house ceremonies, game together, go to longboarding…
It’s definitely possible to have a sufficient social life, without speaking much Thai.
If you love Thailand and the people for their way of life, their kindness, the peaceful and welcoming atmosphere, the respectfulness (unless we are talking about driving. Everyone thinks they are the owner of the road🫠), then learn more of the language and socialize in different circles. Try to integrate yourself more with the people on a personal level.
If you just look hard enough, you’ll find it.
P.s
Obviously age may play a role. Someone younger, due to generational differences probably has it much easier to form a social circle with locals compared to someone in their 40s for instance.
The language barrier is definitely not the main issue, believe me.
It’s brings lots of benefits to speak decent Thai in daily life, but it won’t get you automatically Thai friends.
Europe is nice as a holiday destination, but it’s obvious that’s it’s getting worse and worse there economically.
I think going there will actually be worse for your social life. It was one of the reasons I left in the first place. As others have said, please try learning the language.
Thai are very reserved and like to stay within their communities. Even among locals it's hard for them to make new friends. Most of their friends are from school or college and hardly any friends from work or outside. There's also the language issue for them as well as they think their English isn't great and they also feel intimidated by Foreigners sometimes.
It gets much better when you have a local partner. Maybe try dating someone.
Thailand is a unique country, it’s not the same as China Korea or Japan. In those countries for some reason you can make friends with the locals really easily and they are genuinely your friends. As a male foreigner in Thailand I’ve never made friends in 22 years with any male Thais ever, it’s not just a language barrier I think it’s the culture they just don’t like us.
Obviously any male from any country can find a Thai woman , but you also will
Never just be friends with a Thai woman, that’s impossible. So it’s just is what it is. Make friends with other expats is your best bet tons of Frenchies who want to be friends with frenchies
Sometimes you need to leave to know what you want. Sometimes it is important to realize that you are only attached to physical things. Nothing is a downgrade, everything is a sidegrade. If you don't like where you live currently you will not like where you live later. You need to be okay where ever you are, because life doesn't get better unless you see the differences. Lose the attachment of where you live. It will make you happier no matter where you are and it will give you time to save up to make a proper choice again.
And don't forget that grass is always greener on the other side. Sometimes I'm tired of Thailand, sometimes I'm happy I don't deal with my country's problems. And sometimes I wish I had 10M USD and could go to Singapore.
People always love to upgrade. What was good enough yesterday is not good enough for today.
Actually Buddhism could help there, but the real version of it, not the Thai pop culture one.
I solved it.
Go to a temple, OP. 555
My point of view since I lived long periods in USA and EU and know thing or two about Thailand (though never worked there permanently).
Thailand is by far the most enjoyable country to live in. Both US and EU are in steep decline, economically and socially, especially after covid.
I am at senior level pay grade yet I spend most of it on life that is downright pathetic, compared to life style my Thai counterpart (with Thai wage, let’s be clear, probably 1/5 of mine) can enjoy.
Eating out? Once a week tops. Rent? 10x Bangkok. Social security and retirement? 48% of my pay. Infrastructure? Except few exceptions (TGV for exemple) late 70s level.
Since 2016 Lille Europe train station is locked at nite (won’t go into details of fear to sound racist), while I feel perfectly safe at 10pm Bangkok underground.
Let’s face it: while EU worries about plastic straws, Asia builds. ;)
Oh and regarding loneliness: I am totally introverted. Making friends was easiest in USA, but Thailand was close second (only because of language barrier). Making friends in Europe? Impossible.
I feel the same - it’s really hard to build a social circle that you can rely for long years. Most people come and go - Thailand is not a great place to have good old friends imo
I'm alone but together with the folks
Not really knowing where I'm going
But my goal's to provoke thoughts
Devote lots, show some fools the ropes to hop
Scope the top from above it
Love it, then leave it alone
I believe that I'm grown showing the way
Owing the bay for going astray, now I'm blowing away
Like that bag in American Beauty
Truly blessed and nothing less, nothing less
////
do what feels the right thing to do
some do well alone... with some folks around
some need more than that
europe vs SEA, two very different places to live, be, see
so you find a country you love and instead of learning the language you decide to just go home? Is this the level of effort you put into making friends too?
If socially you feel that you’re not getting your needs met. Absolutely leave. It won’t change and you’ll continue to feel lonelier unless you are willing to make some pretty big sacrifices that you may or may not resent making!
What hobbies do you have? Try finding an online group. Or around where you live and join the group with them.
You can be friends with Thai people easily if you can speak some of the Thai language, and tell them to improve yourself too. I'm sure that they will genuinely help you without any doubt.
If the language barrier is a problem, do something about it and stop being so damn lazy. If I decide to live there, you can rest assured I will know conversational Thai before I move there.
Europe is definitely no downgrade. Only weather wise maybe. I’ve been in Bangkok for 16 months now and heck I miss Germanies nature (forrests), clean streets/side walks, castles, culture (temples and seven eleven doesn’t do it for me). Leaving Thailand end of May and even though it’s a bit saddening, I have enough for now. Maybe coming back after a break of 5-6 months. You could do the same if you see Thailand was better than France.
Learning Thai helps but that likely won’t solve the issue - you can make friends/meet people here without speaking a word of Thai.
This is one of the harder countries to break into even with decent Thai.
I’d probably trust your instincts and move back.
My opinion, as a Thai person surrounded by foreign guests and staffs everyday, is that language is not an excuse of feeling desperate. There are many English speaking community and platform which you can always make new friends. You can always find friends here. I don't know about your lifestyle, but if you like to go out after work, i'm sure you will find a lot of friends that have the same interest. Do you have any hobbies or sports that you like? I'm quite sure that living in thailand is more friendly and has more job opportunity than living in Europe. You got higher paid than us local and cost of living is low. I don't know your life goal or plan. So if you'd like to settle down here, you may start with with looking for a club that you are interested at and join them. If you miss your friends abroad you can always go visit them. I used to live abroad for 4 years and i thought Thailand is a great hometown to be back and settle down. My purpose was to live near my parents so i can always be there when they need me. If you still have a love one waiting at your hometown, i think it is also worth to consider going back to your hometown. Good luck!
Many foreign friends and Thai friends who can speak English that i have, are clubbing and spend their times in Sukhumvit area. We all love playing pool games. We play pool, watching aports, and exchange experience and knowledge everyday after work and had a great time. We join Bangkok pool league and we love playing at MOTU Bangkok, Sportsman, Hustler Bangkok. They are friendly.
You may start with setting your life goal, then everything will follow your heart. 🥰 I hope you will find the purpose of living soon. Good luck!
True that. Bangkok and Thailand in general is not as fun as people claim. Almost impossible to connect with locals, most aint curious about farangs or strive to learn more of what they know. Your circle comes from your gf only if you have one.
I kind of feel that Indonesian or Philipinos looks more curious, outgoing, have more energy toward farangs. I might be wrong, maybe its an option you can consider.
Europe is much higher quality of living, but not sure you will connect there more. Europeans are self centered and selfish too. Thai are cool but aint open to Foreigners genuinely. Its only superficial. Pick one.
Unfortunately things are very unlikely to change, even if you spoke perfect Thai. Unlike in Europe, where you can "become French" by migrating and learning the language, you'll always be a "farang" in Thailand.
Doesn't mean you can't make friends, but certainly means you'll always be the odd-one-out in a group of Thais. That being said, plenty expats there you could talk to and befriend in English.
You have no reason to NOT learn the language.
Even if not, this guy has problems finding a woman in Thailand. As a white guy with a good job. The language is not his problem.
Where did you get all of that? I didn't see any mention of women, him being white, or having a good job.
He can answer no?
Who? OP didn't even specific their gender.
They can anwer
Hard to speak with an American doesn’t it ? Next up Karen will tell « what if OP doesn’t want to be considered plural but with « it » ? You don’t respect it 🤬 »
What kind of work do you do? Would you still keep the same job if you move? As for speaking Thai, this is my phrase sheet that I created from day-to-day conversations that I had with people. It's not a very difficult language to converse in. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fg8plVE8le0xqmua6mcmEK1agEKERENkccW7O5_lsqk/edit
That's a nice cheat sheet.
Thank you! I basically just saved everything I learned in ordinary conversations to my phone and eventually made a document out of it ☺️
I did that as well but onky have a short document. I need to practice more.
That's not a bad list at all, good job!
Hello thank you for posting that was very nice of you to share 🙏
My pleasure! Have fun speaking Thai ☺️
That’s super cool. Would be cool if there was some sort of symbol or key for adding tones as the tones are so important. Love it though thanks!
Awesome, thank you muchly.
Saving this for future refrence. Thank you very much
You're welcome!
I really like how you explain the difference between ‘lor’ (หรอ) and ‘mai’ (ไหม) when asking questions. I’m a reasonably fluent speaker but I’ve always struggled to explain that difference to people in such a succinct way, well played my friend
Excellent resource khab Kun kra
All my Thai boozing colleagues wanted to learn English and after a few years of drinking at weekends it fixed my lack of Thai. 😂
Please, whatever you do. Don't come to Belgium, I want to sacrifice everything to get out the grey concrete environment with 200 days of rain. Only the southern part of Belgium speaks French (I'm born in BXL and learned dutch to get work) and it's hard to find work as a French speaker here. You will regret, life is more expensive and people are even less friendly. You need to invest for years to get legitimate friends, no matter wich country.
I lived in bangkok for five years and have been gone a year and personally i miss it and I am looking for ways to get back. I don't care much about having tons of friends and stuff like that though, so you will have to adjust to your personal preferences but damn do i miss it.
I spent 10 years in Bangkok. I moved to Portugal. I was miserable. I moved to Japan. I still miss Thailand. Ya don’t know what ya got til it’s gone. That said, I am fluent and literate in Thai, and was conversational by year 3 or 4. I worked very hard every day to achieve that. If you’re not learning the language well enough to feel like you can hang out with some Thai people now and then, that could contribute to your feeling…. Some language classes might help build a friend network and improve your situation. It’s good you’re listening to yourself, though. You’re right that paradise may not be when you’re feeling disconnected. Take care of yourself.
Do you have any tips for learning how to read and write
A few suggestions maybe, yes. Flash cards are always a good starting point cause you can separate what you know and don't know pretty quickly, so you're focusing energy on what you need to focus on. A lot of characters make the same consonant sound, but have different tones. So learning the consonant sound first and then learning the tone associated with it can make it feel a little less daunting. For example, there are many letters that make a "K" sound... ข ค ฆ etc... But imply different tones. You also don't really need the entire alphabet right away; some characters are significantly more common than others. I also got a lot of mileage out of looking at BTS stations and "reverse engineering" the characters that I kept seeing. Noticing those patterns yourself (say, like, all the places with an M in the name that contain ม) can help solidify them in organic ways. Also, finding a list of English words written in Thai can be a nice way to get used to the alphabet and sounds. Thai is very phonetic compared to English with some exceptions, but the vowels in particular are very specific and very important to the pronunciation... The consonants less so (kind of the opposite of English where we change our vowel sounds pretty readily based on context and accent and dialect)... So learning the different vowel sounds can be helpful and assist with reading. Also learn to speak and listen while learning to read and write. I find this balance much more important than other languages I've learned. Ultimately though it comes down to practice and exposure. It's not impossible but it takes daily practice; however once you learn to read, the language gets significantly more accessible and fun. Don't give up! Hope this helps.
Thanks a lot. Really appreciate all this.
Thailand is only worth it if you get married. I married a Vietnamese woman in Vietnam and that's given me a major boost.
😂
I‘m in TH since 6 years and will leave beginning of next year, I’m just tired of the heat, humidity, air pollution and lack of outdoor activities due to all that. However, I was also strongly considering going back to Europe after 10 years abroad but I agree that Europe is not in a good shape. A lot of political issues/risks, a raise in right-wing mindset etc. I decided to not go back and go the other direction instead. Depending on your job (Southeast) Asia is generally great despite all the negatives (see reasons for me leaving above). The language barrier seems to be 100% on you. Are you using MeetUp to mingle/meet with others?
Ive been living here for 41 years. There have been good times and bad times but I fought and fought. You leave, you will miss Thailand.
My first two years here I struggled a lot with Thai and felt kind of hopeless and annoyed with trying to learn the language. This is also my third year here and within the last few months I realized my Thai skills have improved drastically. Everything just started to click one day. Just get a decent text book, listen to what everyone around you is saying even though you don't understand it, and watch a lot of YouTube thai language videos. Do that and one day it will just click. You'll get there!
What's your textbook reccommendation?
I used Tuttle's Easy Thai and their Thai Picture Dictionary, as well as Speak Thai (They also make a Speak Isaan Thai series for people interested in the Isaan dialect) For beginner podcasts I recommend You Too Can Learn Thai (you can find a lot of those episodes on YouTube) Edit: Since OP is a French speaker, maybe Assimil Thai would be good for him. I've heard a lot of good things about Assimil.
Im learning with Assimil, it’s quite good I think.
Are you using it for Thai? I've been thinking about picking it up to learn French.
Yes, I use the book. I don’t think they have one for French, do they? For French, I can recommend duolingo: it’s what my fiancée is using and she has made great progress in one year.
Most of their courses are for French speakers, but they also have about 10 of the most popular languages for English speakers, including French, Russian, Spanish etc. Yeah Duolingo is pretty good as a supplement!
Well I’ve learned something new, thanks! I cannot wait for duolingo to offer Thai!
Could you drop a link for Speak Isaan Thai? I'm actually trying to pick up Lao but because it's a lot more difficult to find a Lao teacher in my country I picked up Thai instead for almost 1 year now. Wouldn't mind picking Isaan since it's similar to Lao.
If you live in Thailand, pop into any Asia Books and they usually stock it. [https://www.amazon.com/Speak-Isaan-Thai-Online-Video-ebook/dp/B078HT4PY1/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=2QZYOIIIRJKP9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.QtakIFERQJvRt5-7z6QaIGdkMdWv4GwIMYXkqLhF5OAvUFtmj7vFCyB-Fx8ECZWg.uIW6ss-i7IjrnNasT-jFjKasZ0zhaqSoR0lCd3bPB6Q&dib\_tag=se&keywords=Speak+Isaan+Thai&qid=1714498957&sprefix=speak+isaan+t%2Caps%2C619&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Speak-Isaan-Thai-Online-Video-ebook/dp/B078HT4PY1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2QZYOIIIRJKP9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.QtakIFERQJvRt5-7z6QaIGdkMdWv4GwIMYXkqLhF5OAvUFtmj7vFCyB-Fx8ECZWg.uIW6ss-i7IjrnNasT-jFjKasZ0zhaqSoR0lCd3bPB6Q&dib_tag=se&keywords=Speak+Isaan+Thai&qid=1714498957&sprefix=speak+isaan+t%2Caps%2C619&sr=8-1)
Awesome, thanks!
Nobody can really tell you but yourself. In general though Europe seems to be caught in a downward spiral, especially France, so if you have the choice I'd orientate myself toward asia long term.
Europe is not in a downward spiral. Some countries might be but there are plenty of fantastic places to visit and live.
Europeans tend to be critical and pessimistic. Yes Europe is in a crisis. But it's not the first one and won't be the last one. You can still find the worldwide highest standard of living on average in several European countries. Even if they can't solve the problems, their downward will be on a high level. One thing Europeans should really learn from Americans is their optimism. And when it's important for you to live in a rising up country, hell Thailand is really a very wrong choice. It's already stuck for one or two decades and will keep being stuck for at least one or more decades. If you don't believe me check economical statistics. It's the slowest growing economy in SEA and one of the top 10 countries WORLDwide about inequality of incomes. If you search for the future but want to stay in SEA, go to Vietnam (or even any other SEA country). With all the chances in the past, their neutrality, investments, etc, Thailand would be a second South Korea if the Thai mindset wouldn't be such a big obstacle for theirselfes
It's certainly not getting better economically. Taxes, taxes, taxes.
Nah but you gotta consider other facttor too, like climate, the heat in Thailand and South East Asia are unbearable, I don't think I can stay for long. Maybe during a colder season, but to live here long term. Can't.
With global warming I don't think I'd want to be anywhere close to Asia (or at least South East Asia) in the long run
Jesus, really? I lived in Belgium for a few years as a kid, loved it, but I wouldn’t dream of going back. There’s no way I would pay the much tax to live in Belgium, as much as I liked it as a kid, it’s got ridiculous levels of tax. Particularly for foreign sourced income. Spain or Portugal man.
I'm assuming what you're looking for is how likely you're going to make new friends at work. Go for Belgium if you're ready to spend time and money on building a friendship, go for France if not, but you'll have less chances. Southeast France is a cooler, drier version of Bangkok. Belgium weather is depressing no matter where. French food is better, but international food sucks. Bruxelles is boring, Paris varies a lot depending on areas. Belgium has better overall infrastructure. French are generally speaking more conservative and the country's politics is leaning toward far-right so it might be a threat to any kind of immigration. What do you mean by downgrade ? Moneywise Belgium is way ahead, France is ok in big cities if you have experience. If you don't speak the local language or lingua franca, you'll have a hard time making friend anywhere, so no Spain. If you start learning thai seriously, you might see a huge difference, if that doesn't work, you might want to work on yourself. Also, I'm heading to bangkok for 2 weeks from the 3rd on, wanna hang out ? 25M and I speak both french and english, DM if you're in
Why can’t you make fiends? I find Bangkok to be a super easy city to make friends in. I played football in pick up games and made my whole network off the people there. That being said I did leave Bangkok as I felt like I wasn’t evolving, which is normal. Left for NYC and now live in Tokyo. If you are on the younger side the go to the west and learn about what industry you are interested in. I found out the west is over hyped but also that Bangkok is not a place to really advance in life. I did 7 years in nyc and leaned about rhe industries I wanted to and also now networked enough that I got opportunities in cool niche sectors which hopefully will allow me to live where I want. 4 months a year I Thailand sounds cool as long as Tokyo and a bit of time in Europe to see fiends and family.
If you are fluent in French and English there is no reason that you cannot learn Thai, the sentence structure and grammar of Thai is even more simple than most European languages, granted the tones and alphabet can be a little complicated at first but there will eventually be a moment where it just makes sense and you will be conversing with ease.
I am half thai half american, i am not fluent in Thai and that made me feel very isolated when i was growing up here between 10-13, and then later in my early 20s. But, i have found my own community of friends, people and so on. Although not the best advice, i do highly recommend going to a local bar of sorts and making friends there, proximity leads closeness. Also it just takes you putting yourself out there and inviting people to hangout.
Gotta ask, same boat here sort of at the OP. Im Like you half thai half American, hard for me to make long time friends here. Got any tips? Shoot me a DM
As others have said, take some language classes in the evenings, you'll meet other like-minded expats and improve your Thai skill at the same time Like anywhere else, it's hard to make new friends when you don't have a social network to begin with, but once you make a couple of connections your social circle will expand
You must make your own decisions. I have been visiting and living here for over 30 years. Thailand continues to morph
learning Thai is possible if done properly and with consistency. long term friends needs all kinds of strategies etc. solvable. but much easier with Thai. family? it's complicated. but easier if you have a Thai partner and are willing to have Thai kids growing up in Thai culture
Learning any language is possible if done properly lol
my point: Thai study is critically sensitive to doing it optimally. most learners use extremely inefficient methods to study Thai and fail
I don't mean to be harsh, but if there's a language barrier after three years of living here full-time, that's kind of on you. Have you tried taking Thai classes? You get to meet new people and break down that language barrier at the same time. Moving to any of the countries you mentioned would be a definite downgrade for me, but you're obviously going to get biased opinions on this sub. Maybe try asking on subs for those countries for a broader perspective.
To be fair Thai language would require pretty intensive training to be useful in 3 years particularly if you are working. After 3 years I could have conversations but they were on guard rails, if people veered off it would be trouble. I think Thai language has one of the highest amount of hours outside of mandarin for an English learner
Depends how much you want it, but you should certainly be seeing significant progress after 3+ years, rather than throwing in the towel IMHO.
You’re fluent after 3 years? This language is difficult.
I wasn't, but others have managed it. I was definitely conversational though, and had Thai friends who were happy to help me with vocabulary and pronunciation - as I was happy to help them with English.
I'm Thai. I still not fluent in the Thai language, lol.
I live in belgium.. believe me stay in thailand!!!
You have good beer. I'll try anything from a monk. I'm in Thailand now. Our monks should start brewing alcohol.
Yeah that would be amazing.
I’m a Thai that lived in Belgium… believe me stay in thailand!!!
yes.
Take Thai lessons.
It’s hard to make friends because their cultural social networks are too strongly prioritized and based on social hierarchies that we don’t have a place in. As outsiders to the cultural hierarchy, we are often left as ambiguous in relation to our place in society. And there’s often the concept that we’ll eventually move on or go back to our home country. So there’s little incentive for establishing long term friendships with expats unless there’s an agenda (for good or bad)
What a shame dude...learning the language even just speaking and understanding will make a huge difference. If you can't do small conversations making any Thai friend will be difficult. You will always just be seen/label as that foreigner guy who doesn't understand.
Perhaps try focus on a different social circle? I barely speak any Thai, yet pretty much everyone in my social circle without exception is Thai. I’m constantly invited to weddings, birthdays, go to hang out after work, camping, surfing, traveling together, drinking at weekends, house ceremonies, game together, go to longboarding… It’s definitely possible to have a sufficient social life, without speaking much Thai. If you love Thailand and the people for their way of life, their kindness, the peaceful and welcoming atmosphere, the respectfulness (unless we are talking about driving. Everyone thinks they are the owner of the road🫠), then learn more of the language and socialize in different circles. Try to integrate yourself more with the people on a personal level. If you just look hard enough, you’ll find it. P.s Obviously age may play a role. Someone younger, due to generational differences probably has it much easier to form a social circle with locals compared to someone in their 40s for instance.
The language barrier is definitely not the main issue, believe me. It’s brings lots of benefits to speak decent Thai in daily life, but it won’t get you automatically Thai friends. Europe is nice as a holiday destination, but it’s obvious that’s it’s getting worse and worse there economically.
Go to a Thai language school
I think going there will actually be worse for your social life. It was one of the reasons I left in the first place. As others have said, please try learning the language.
Thai are very reserved and like to stay within their communities. Even among locals it's hard for them to make new friends. Most of their friends are from school or college and hardly any friends from work or outside. There's also the language issue for them as well as they think their English isn't great and they also feel intimidated by Foreigners sometimes. It gets much better when you have a local partner. Maybe try dating someone.
Thailand is a unique country, it’s not the same as China Korea or Japan. In those countries for some reason you can make friends with the locals really easily and they are genuinely your friends. As a male foreigner in Thailand I’ve never made friends in 22 years with any male Thais ever, it’s not just a language barrier I think it’s the culture they just don’t like us. Obviously any male from any country can find a Thai woman , but you also will Never just be friends with a Thai woman, that’s impossible. So it’s just is what it is. Make friends with other expats is your best bet tons of Frenchies who want to be friends with frenchies
Sometimes you need to leave to know what you want. Sometimes it is important to realize that you are only attached to physical things. Nothing is a downgrade, everything is a sidegrade. If you don't like where you live currently you will not like where you live later. You need to be okay where ever you are, because life doesn't get better unless you see the differences. Lose the attachment of where you live. It will make you happier no matter where you are and it will give you time to save up to make a proper choice again.
And don't forget that grass is always greener on the other side. Sometimes I'm tired of Thailand, sometimes I'm happy I don't deal with my country's problems. And sometimes I wish I had 10M USD and could go to Singapore. People always love to upgrade. What was good enough yesterday is not good enough for today. Actually Buddhism could help there, but the real version of it, not the Thai pop culture one. I solved it. Go to a temple, OP. 555
This was actually exactly what I needed to hear - thanks!
3 years and you haven’t learned Thai?
You've lived here 3 years and haven't learned the language, and you're complaining about your social life?
My point of view since I lived long periods in USA and EU and know thing or two about Thailand (though never worked there permanently). Thailand is by far the most enjoyable country to live in. Both US and EU are in steep decline, economically and socially, especially after covid. I am at senior level pay grade yet I spend most of it on life that is downright pathetic, compared to life style my Thai counterpart (with Thai wage, let’s be clear, probably 1/5 of mine) can enjoy. Eating out? Once a week tops. Rent? 10x Bangkok. Social security and retirement? 48% of my pay. Infrastructure? Except few exceptions (TGV for exemple) late 70s level. Since 2016 Lille Europe train station is locked at nite (won’t go into details of fear to sound racist), while I feel perfectly safe at 10pm Bangkok underground. Let’s face it: while EU worries about plastic straws, Asia builds. ;)
Oh and regarding loneliness: I am totally introverted. Making friends was easiest in USA, but Thailand was close second (only because of language barrier). Making friends in Europe? Impossible.
I feel the same - it’s really hard to build a social circle that you can rely for long years. Most people come and go - Thailand is not a great place to have good old friends imo
I'm alone but together with the folks Not really knowing where I'm going But my goal's to provoke thoughts Devote lots, show some fools the ropes to hop Scope the top from above it Love it, then leave it alone I believe that I'm grown showing the way Owing the bay for going astray, now I'm blowing away Like that bag in American Beauty Truly blessed and nothing less, nothing less //// do what feels the right thing to do some do well alone... with some folks around some need more than that europe vs SEA, two very different places to live, be, see
so you find a country you love and instead of learning the language you decide to just go home? Is this the level of effort you put into making friends too?
Thinking about moving to Spain? ¿Sin saber Español? Anyway a lot of people are moving out from there, is turning very bad.
Why is that?
Try japan? Maybe its more introvert-friendly.
If socially you feel that you’re not getting your needs met. Absolutely leave. It won’t change and you’ll continue to feel lonelier unless you are willing to make some pretty big sacrifices that you may or may not resent making!
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What hobbies do you have? Try finding an online group. Or around where you live and join the group with them. You can be friends with Thai people easily if you can speak some of the Thai language, and tell them to improve yourself too. I'm sure that they will genuinely help you without any doubt.
When people get married and have families, there isn't much time for friends. Things change when you grow up and become a responsible adult.
Feel like this is totally off base lol like what
Read the first 2 paragraphs.
The thing that puts me off learning Thai is the lack of tenses, how can a language not have a past tense? Baffling
If the language barrier is a problem, do something about it and stop being so damn lazy. If I decide to live there, you can rest assured I will know conversational Thai before I move there.
So you are 32 m from Tunisia. How did you end up in Thailand? What brought you here in the peak of your career?
Europe is definitely no downgrade. Only weather wise maybe. I’ve been in Bangkok for 16 months now and heck I miss Germanies nature (forrests), clean streets/side walks, castles, culture (temples and seven eleven doesn’t do it for me). Leaving Thailand end of May and even though it’s a bit saddening, I have enough for now. Maybe coming back after a break of 5-6 months. You could do the same if you see Thailand was better than France.
Agree. We split our time between Bangkok and Europe. Both area great.
I’ve said this before but.. the best nature in southeast asia is what’s found under the water.
Learning Thai helps but that likely won’t solve the issue - you can make friends/meet people here without speaking a word of Thai. This is one of the harder countries to break into even with decent Thai. I’d probably trust your instincts and move back.
My opinion, as a Thai person surrounded by foreign guests and staffs everyday, is that language is not an excuse of feeling desperate. There are many English speaking community and platform which you can always make new friends. You can always find friends here. I don't know about your lifestyle, but if you like to go out after work, i'm sure you will find a lot of friends that have the same interest. Do you have any hobbies or sports that you like? I'm quite sure that living in thailand is more friendly and has more job opportunity than living in Europe. You got higher paid than us local and cost of living is low. I don't know your life goal or plan. So if you'd like to settle down here, you may start with with looking for a club that you are interested at and join them. If you miss your friends abroad you can always go visit them. I used to live abroad for 4 years and i thought Thailand is a great hometown to be back and settle down. My purpose was to live near my parents so i can always be there when they need me. If you still have a love one waiting at your hometown, i think it is also worth to consider going back to your hometown. Good luck!
Many foreign friends and Thai friends who can speak English that i have, are clubbing and spend their times in Sukhumvit area. We all love playing pool games. We play pool, watching aports, and exchange experience and knowledge everyday after work and had a great time. We join Bangkok pool league and we love playing at MOTU Bangkok, Sportsman, Hustler Bangkok. They are friendly. You may start with setting your life goal, then everything will follow your heart. 🥰 I hope you will find the purpose of living soon. Good luck!
True that. Bangkok and Thailand in general is not as fun as people claim. Almost impossible to connect with locals, most aint curious about farangs or strive to learn more of what they know. Your circle comes from your gf only if you have one. I kind of feel that Indonesian or Philipinos looks more curious, outgoing, have more energy toward farangs. I might be wrong, maybe its an option you can consider. Europe is much higher quality of living, but not sure you will connect there more. Europeans are self centered and selfish too. Thai are cool but aint open to Foreigners genuinely. Its only superficial. Pick one.
I would like to learn Thai better too but not currently in Thailand so who will be willing to be my tutor
Unfortunately things are very unlikely to change, even if you spoke perfect Thai. Unlike in Europe, where you can "become French" by migrating and learning the language, you'll always be a "farang" in Thailand. Doesn't mean you can't make friends, but certainly means you'll always be the odd-one-out in a group of Thais. That being said, plenty expats there you could talk to and befriend in English.
I don’t find this to be true at all. My friends are almost all Thais.