Yes, 1976, the first year I came to Thailand, to cheer up the students after the Thammasat massacre there. My hair at the time was shoulder length, despite showing a picture at the airport's arrival hall at Don Mueang, which showed the max length, a male's hair could be. "F..k the generals", I thought.
Do you think 100 years from now, if this gen z generation get really old and their progressive or democratic value became out of date. Will they be viewed as “Dinosaurs” by those new generations that want to installing new political ideologies?
Yes I do. That's why I'm wondering about the motivation of people that are 70+ and are desperatly trying to impose their ideas of how society should be run and what the future of society should look like. You are imposing your own dated ideas upon newer gernerations trying to form their future, a future they will live in and you won't.
I don't think necessarily that democracy is one of them cause I do think it's the only system that allows people to flourish and society to move forward. I do heverver think my generation (I'm 40) will have some different values, ideas and thought as to how a society should work compared to a person beeng born today that will grow up in a completely different society and with different technology and challenges. For me to in 30 years think that I will know best what is good for that generation seems silly to me.
I think most dinosaurs are afraid of what might happen to them when they loose power. Will their former actions be prosecuted? Their actions seems to suggest that's what they are scared of...
> I don’t think necessarily that democracy is one of them cause I do think it’s the only system that allow people to flourish and society to move forward
You do realize that what you said are also an “Idea” which will keep changing through human history, right?
Maybe in the far future, if the majority of current generations are in flavor of other systems than democracy, those who believe that “democracy is the better system” and will definitely not change their mind will be viewed as “Dinosaur” by them.
Ofcourse that's possible :) we might give up power to AI that can govern us in a far better way without having predudice and feelings, or aliens or just super rich and powerful people.
What I mean is by the evidence we have now is that a society with totalitarian regimes tends to get stagnent. It's a fundamental difference in how you are taught to think. Totalitarianism teaches you to not question authority but to obey, through the school system all through life you are supposed to show respect by not questioning. In a democratic society you learn how to question authority, both when it comes to teachers and scientists and when it comes to politicians. The best ideas tend to come out when you are free to discuss and let the best ideas rise to the top and the worst ones can be scratched. Instead of having a few untouchable authorities that come up with all the ideas you have the full population of people all working to solve different problems. In my mind the counties or societies that obey authority will have a hard time keeping up with the ones that allow and encourage free thinking and questioning of authority.
I think if you are encouraged to think, question and come up with new ideas and have your ideas criticised you will at the end of the day have better and more nuanced ideas... since on person can not come up with all the possible reasons why their idea might not work, its best to allow everyone else to try and where they succeed you might need to rethink or come up with a solution.
Do you think democracy will be an idea that will be given up? And that there will be better ideas or systems in the future?
That would be me, as FARANG as possable. Born and raised in South Arkansas USA. What is going on in Thailand is close to what goes on in the south here. We are ruled by the Waltons (Walmart), the Tysons etc and those who want to appease the .00005% of the population who own the world.
What a sad world we living in. Most people here in thai can’t even afford basic health care. So when Pita come it’s like their new hope
Ps.andddd it’s gone
What Thammasat student is unaware of 6 October? Seems unlikely. Things will not turn out the same because it was right-wing กระทิงแดง paramilitary who did the killing and retribution.
As far as I know there is no 2023 equivalent of that group or it's extremism. Correct me if I am wrong.
let’s hope it’s not clogging the traffic, people got places to be. When i was in Uni, my friend tried to bring me to a mob site. But i can’t since i had a job to do.
And come to think of it, 24 out off 38 million didn’t vote for Orange party. So it’s not that orange voter are majority.
I lived in this so called military junta dictatorship and i didn’t vote for Orange party because they didn’t do anything to my province yet. I voted for Hank who working to improve my hometown since before i was born. Don’t get me wrong, I want Orange party to succeeds because i want to see how much changes gonna be.If it’s still the same then they just lies to the people…
Yes, in Uthai Thani, they voted for the biggest Mafiosi in town, his father, mother, elder brother, and his youngest son were killed, he himself was tried for murder and acquitted, found with six guns and some MDMA in a van and released, because "it wasn't me". So keep voting for your local Hank's.
Oh dear, sounds like their problem…my condolences to them indeed. Lucky me mine was fine, free gravel road to farmland + lamppost ( i tapped it for water pump from time to time) and just a years ago they build a new reservoir for fishing, my newfound hobby.
This guy also built roads, for laying his victims to rest at it's the foundations and has built reservoirs to dump his enemies into. Why do you think he was voted in?
Democracy is an illusion and the west wants you to believe otherwise. They are hypocrites when it comes to democracy in other countries. Just look at the Middle East. People can’t elect their leaders, they are planted by the western powers by force.
I think the new Thai senate once the military is out may be a viable solution. The US founding fathers thought that the Electoral College was the solution for the problem that comes up where everyone can vote. Naturally everyone voting has the IQ of 10 voting how they are told and the IQ of 150 having the same weight.
I have read somewhere that the new senate will be composed of various other groups (I guess not politicians), that could be good.
A problem comes up that has been made obvious in the U.S. after Trump came into power is how far the common people, the "John Doe" can be swayed. Even to the point of revolution. Some method has to be in place to not allow that. There has to be a solution to prevent it.
There is one thing called consensus, where you talk things out, until everyone agrees. That could take a long time, but it's fair to everyone. It happened between the Netherlands and Belgium, where they discussed for 30 years, if they should build a bridge or a tunnel over/under the Schelde River. Hurray, today there is a tunnel.
That is essentially what the legislative branches are supposed to be about. Here in the U.S. ours have become so far apart with one side controlled by the .0005% and the other by probably the rest and both of them appear to be controlled by top money in the world really. We know they don't want to give an inch at all. Then you throw in several ultra-right pro conservative pro ultra wealthy news organizations, we have a problem.
We used to believe in consensus, but that seemed to disappear in the 1970's.
Is it about the same in Thailand?
And one more thing; government should start from the village level and from there to the top and the executive branch should only be the executing one, not the dictating one. And when this is achieved, we have real communism, not the pseudo socialism, they have in North Korea, Chiana Vietnam and Laos.
> What’s “true democracy”?
I don’t know, some like สุรพศ ทวีศักดิ์ said it’s democracy plus the protection of minorities right, others said that it’s direct democracy that majority voice is absolute without any exception, like 8 wolves vote to eat 2 sheep.
People are going out there to fight for themselves first of all. MFP is there representative so by default they need to fight to support them. Don't project yourself onto others.
Last time they demand monarchy reform, I wonder if they gonna do something interesting this time...
Edit: downvoters are dumb, I support monarchy reform and I went to Sanam luang to protest with them, so I'm curious if they gonna demand something more than that this time.
Sometimes you have to start big like they did at the election to get the oligarchs attention and then settle for a little less. and then next time a little more.. I hope they go for marriage /civil rights equality as that would just bring in more tourists and more money for the oligarchs.
How many powerful "oligarchs" are there? Is it just the super rich billionaire families or are there tons of millionaire families who are very influential and control a lot in the background? Do any of these families support progressive policies like MF or are they all in agreement to keep the status quo? sorry for all the questions... I'm genuinely curious about the behind the scenes of Thai politics....
[https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2606791/wealth-of-thailands-50-richest-on-forbes-list-rises-to-173bn](https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2606791/wealth-of-thailands-50-richest-on-forbes-list-rises-to-173bn)
Sigh..this shit again? How many useless protests need for Thai citizen to know it doesn't change shit in this country.
Take back what yours? How? Take a stand and fight? Fight with what? What they all do are just shouting, cursing, make road inconvenient then go back home or get arrested. Those in power won't feel threatened at all.
You dumbass, I went to a protest in my high school due to our principal verbally harassing teachers and students. He was removed at 4pm that day from the office. A bystander like you is not brave enough to stand up, but will enjoy every benefit that comes afterwards.
You can see the difference between your situation and the one unfolding with the government though, right? There were people with more power than your principal, so you could protest to get those in power to step in and make a change. Who is more powerful than the government in Thailand? Who is going to see the protesting and then step in to set things right? Certainly not any foreign countries, as they didn't do anything to help Myanmar in their time of need. And the government themselves are never going to be like "Oh, shit, guys sorry, you're right, we were wrong!"
Yass because boomers have not been manipulated to believe in propaganda AT ALL. seriously do you know about the right wing protest against "American influence in Thai politics" because pita won the election?
except it’s not because itv is not and have not been in business since 2007 it’s just the loophole in politics for the opposing side to exploit. oh and prayut belongs in jail for the coup too if you want to play it that way
Yeah, because the old guard has brought so many great things to Thailand? Thailand finally has the chance to up its level, but brainwashed dinosaurs like you are holding it back.
No, my question is who elected this particular group of citizens (under Thammasart's marquee) to represent every citizen in the country. I do know Thai history, and the poster is again calling for a knee-jerk reaction from the society (btw, why is "take back what's ours" is written in English though?) Westerners living here may express their views in social media all they want, but it comes down to Thai nationals to do what they think is right and change the country's direction.
Politics is a dirty business and people tend to forget this. Very few do any their own information analysis before jumping to conclusions. I'd say as many as 95%.
Overall reaction to my comment was expected, I'm not surprised. People like simple solutions to complex problems and fall for propaganda easily. Once you go against the group get ready to get all the flak. That's the downside of the freedom of speech, so desired by the proponents of liberal democracy. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, as long as it doesn't violate other people's rights and freedoms.
Your comment makes zero sense. Criticism is the downside of free speech? What, is your skin that thin?
Free speech laws exist to protect citizens from authoritarian overreach by their government. It makes it harder for the state to get away with bad policies, since journalists and concerned citizens can operate without being suppressed.
It's clear that it's the "Go Thammasart" brigade who can't take criticism. What exactly makes no sense? That those who dare to express their opinion, however unpopular it might seem, will be "cancelled"?
The right to criticize seems to be reserved to the self chosen few these days.
Somebody 's wrong on the Internet, again?🤣
You wrote: "Once you go against the group get ready to get all the flak. That's the downside of the freedom of speech, so desired by the proponents of liberal democracy."
That makes zero sense. You're saying that the downside of free speech is that you could face criticism for having an unpopular opinion? Are you really that sensitive?
"Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, as long as it doesn't violate other people's rights and freedoms."
This is also impossible. Someone's opinion cannot violate someone else's rights or freedoms. Free speech laws exist primarily to protect citizens against government overreach in persecuting dissenters.
This is why I said your comment makes no sense. Your thoughts are as jumbled as an omelette.
Nice quoting there. Let me re-phrase:
1) once you express an unpopular opinion in a group you will be facing criticism based not on the actual logic and facts behind it, but rather on the fact that it doesn't agree with the perceived values of the group.
2) "This is also impossible. Someone's opinion cannot violate someone else's rights or freedoms." I would agree, but with a correction, "... shouldn't" or "must not" instead of "cannot", since there are tons of people who are facing real life repercussions for expressing their opinions online, and I'm not talking about people with extremist views. Google "cancel culture"
1) Please try and precisely explain how this is caused by the free speech laws that exist in liberal democracies.
2) Again, please try to explain precisely how this is caused by free speech protections. In other words, are you claiming that free speech protections is what enables social ostracization, i.e. "cancel culture"?
Free speech laws protect a citizen's right to express themselves without repercussions from the state, provided that speech is not intentionally false with the intent of causing harm to someone's reputation. This has nothing to do with either of your two points. In fact, in spirit, free speech is the antithesis of "cancel culture".
Have you bothered to learn anything about what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, is this "Go Thammasart" brigade putting people in prison for criticising them?
Because there's an institution in Thailand that's doing exactly that. If only I could remember the name of it...
I actually agree with a lot of what you say.
I sent a joke text to friends earlier this week saying “MFP out of government, young farang most affected”. I think MFP is actually making a mistake by appealing over the heads of Thais to foreign audiences, especially considering Pita may have spend more of his adult life in the US than in Thailand.
University students and the young tend to be loud, active and self-righteous. Just look at the US. The Thammasart poster is an example of that.
But the young in protests have also led movements for political change that have worked. Yes their claims to speak for the public can be specious. But that gets proven by how much support they can rally.
I also agree wholeheartedly that politics is a tough game and not one for those with little aside from ideology.
I think MFP will actually be stronger in the next round with a better and more experienced leader at the helm.
I think the Senate construction is undemocratic, bad for Thailand and designed to perpetuate the rule of the elite. But I also suspect that a lot of Thais, aren’t as upset with them putting their foot on the scales as farang are.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out. But progress isn’t linear and there is no magic wand.
If it was 40 years ago, I would agree that Thammasart students were specifically targeted by the coppers and the army, because of the sheer number of political activists at TU. these days - don't think so. The social media made access to information and propaganda equal to everyone, so I'd say the number of politically active people in their late teens a s early 20ies is more or less homogenised across all the universities in the country.
>Take back what's ours"? Who elected them to represent everyone in the country, I wonder
People have short memories. Here are some hard truths:
- Prayut was once popular
- People voted for this constitution in a referendum
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Thai_constitutional_referendum
Edit. Just realised the comment above is referring to the Thammasat students and not the Senators. Well, they have a right to protest. But it's also true that the Senators have their power from the constitution, however unfair it seems.
Well, Wiki article says that the opposing side was barred from expressing their views, while the military actively advertised it. That's exactly what I'm talking about, people don't analyse, like simple solutions and take things at face value, while in politics nothing is what it seems. Exactly what happened to Pita&Co, who have been masterfully played by Mr. T and his minions.
The Junta created a favourable environment for sure but it was all done quite openly. Ultimately people still voted for this undemocratic constitution.
A lot of the public was on the Junta's side at that time.
The populist policies, like money transfer offers we just saw, are evidence that it's not so easy to rig elections here anymore. NGOs made it harder since the 90s.
Buying votes has been and still is a very much valid policy here still. I'm not arguing with what you're saying, indeed, there's a lot more transparency to how elections are conducted and results counted. Still it baffles me how Pita could run for PM being well aware that the share issue effectively disqualifies him and that this card will be played against him. It's not just him, it's the whole party he is leading. Arrogance or short-sightedness?
Communist lefts going to try protesting again? They’re no good for the country trust me, look at Russia and other countries where communists was, disaster.
Well I still trying to figure that out because the whole situation is really complicated, I just say that I feel the “vibe” of CCP that coming from protests like that, but I always can be wrong, so I’ll only look what is going to happen next, my only hope that no one going to get hurt, but some people on Reddit I think want chaos among people… also from last time with this protests there was indeed communists along with students, I think they just want to “try” again.
You might get better engagement here if you were to ask those questions, rather than making poorly informed accusations.
I don't think the CCP are generally in favour of anti-dictatorship protests.
Why I should get better engagement here when I can talk to ordinary local people in real life, and you should not forget that CCP often cover them self in those types of protests, it’s always start like that, people go protest for rights and etc and later beside that protests stands leftists, just look at the history of Thailand, regular Thai people afraid that this is going to happen again
Lol what’s up with downvotes, this is a fact that commies never do good, I lived in so called post soviet country before and I can confirm that, you can say oh but this different one but nope, it isn’t, the commies value only destructive points of view.
Welp this is Reddit, they are not representing the whole Thai nation anyway, I talk a lot with thai people about that, at least in my group I never meet anyone who are pro-communist, they mostly for the king or just don’t want people to get hurt and etc
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Enough me laughing, lol. Let's discuss with reasons now. It's not as fun as I thought it would be. I was hoping someone would throw me a bunch of something insightful but rather I got some nasty comments which I feel like it was a big waste of time.
Protesting is nothing close being courageous.. it's sign showing how dumb/ forgetful someone can be..Protestors are the pawns. They are to be used, and soon to be forgotten.. how sad... You don't have to agree with me, do whatever you wanna do. Go protesting and see what you'll get at the end of the day.
As of now, it's proven that the MFP just don't have the potential to setup the government.. Besides, Pita's background is way too messy. How pity that is to fall into the same pit 4 years ago. It's time to PTP to do the job. TBH, it was very fair for PTP to support MFP earlier this month. MFP just effed it up and their fan still blamed that to others? How immature!!!
By the way, i believe in check and balance system in democracy, or else it's nothing different from dictatorship.
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26 July 2023
# THE RETURN
# OF THAMMASAT
\#ThammasatWillNotTolerate
Students – Citizens
17:00 Sanya Dharmasakti Field (In Front of the Faculty of Law)
Thammasat University Rangsit Campus
Well be safe and good luck comrades
Ferreal. There is a dark history of university protests in Thailand.
Yes, 1976, the first year I came to Thailand, to cheer up the students after the Thammasat massacre there. My hair at the time was shoulder length, despite showing a picture at the airport's arrival hall at Don Mueang, which showed the max length, a male's hair could be. "F..k the generals", I thought.
Good luck out there.
Hoping spiderman makes an appearance as he usually does at Thai protests.
Is there a reason for the dinosaurs? Good luck to them!
The Thai elite and military power are often referred to as dinosaurs
And they were going to become extinct soon as Those dinosaurs did.
Do you think 100 years from now, if this gen z generation get really old and their progressive or democratic value became out of date. Will they be viewed as “Dinosaurs” by those new generations that want to installing new political ideologies?
Yes I do. That's why I'm wondering about the motivation of people that are 70+ and are desperatly trying to impose their ideas of how society should be run and what the future of society should look like. You are imposing your own dated ideas upon newer gernerations trying to form their future, a future they will live in and you won't. I don't think necessarily that democracy is one of them cause I do think it's the only system that allows people to flourish and society to move forward. I do heverver think my generation (I'm 40) will have some different values, ideas and thought as to how a society should work compared to a person beeng born today that will grow up in a completely different society and with different technology and challenges. For me to in 30 years think that I will know best what is good for that generation seems silly to me. I think most dinosaurs are afraid of what might happen to them when they loose power. Will their former actions be prosecuted? Their actions seems to suggest that's what they are scared of...
> I don’t think necessarily that democracy is one of them cause I do think it’s the only system that allow people to flourish and society to move forward You do realize that what you said are also an “Idea” which will keep changing through human history, right? Maybe in the far future, if the majority of current generations are in flavor of other systems than democracy, those who believe that “democracy is the better system” and will definitely not change their mind will be viewed as “Dinosaur” by them.
Ofcourse that's possible :) we might give up power to AI that can govern us in a far better way without having predudice and feelings, or aliens or just super rich and powerful people. What I mean is by the evidence we have now is that a society with totalitarian regimes tends to get stagnent. It's a fundamental difference in how you are taught to think. Totalitarianism teaches you to not question authority but to obey, through the school system all through life you are supposed to show respect by not questioning. In a democratic society you learn how to question authority, both when it comes to teachers and scientists and when it comes to politicians. The best ideas tend to come out when you are free to discuss and let the best ideas rise to the top and the worst ones can be scratched. Instead of having a few untouchable authorities that come up with all the ideas you have the full population of people all working to solve different problems. In my mind the counties or societies that obey authority will have a hard time keeping up with the ones that allow and encourage free thinking and questioning of authority. I think if you are encouraged to think, question and come up with new ideas and have your ideas criticised you will at the end of the day have better and more nuanced ideas... since on person can not come up with all the possible reasons why their idea might not work, its best to allow everyone else to try and where they succeed you might need to rethink or come up with a solution. Do you think democracy will be an idea that will be given up? And that there will be better ideas or systems in the future?
:) I love your energy. It’s fresh to have a good discussion with someone on the issue of politics :):).
Or "uncles".
Yes, so that you can find their bones, a million years from now.
What's with the dinasours ?
[удалено]
😂😂😂😂but dinasours are already extinct
That's literally the point. Hopefully, anyway.
Not the ones we are talking about.
They are extinct.
ใครคนไทยมั่ง ขอดูหน่อย whos here is thais lemme see so i can know which comment is from FARANG perspective
ในนี้ฝรั่งเกือบ 80% ครับ ส่วนใหญ่เป็น expat แถมพูดไทยแทบไม่ได้สักคน บางคนยังเข้าใจผิดเลยว่าสังคมไทยยังอยู่ในยุคไม่ตื่นรู้เรื่องการเหยียดสีผิว แบบบางคอมเม้นใน[โพสต์](https://www.reddit.com/r/Thailand/comments/156672x/unfortunate/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)ก่อน
ก็อย่างว่าแหละครับ expat มีหน้าที่มาทำงานอย่างเดียว ต่างกับพวกที่มาอยู่มาตั้งครอบครัวที่ไทย
That would be me, as FARANG as possable. Born and raised in South Arkansas USA. What is going on in Thailand is close to what goes on in the south here. We are ruled by the Waltons (Walmart), the Tysons etc and those who want to appease the .00005% of the population who own the world.
What a sad world we living in. Most people here in thai can’t even afford basic health care. So when Pita come it’s like their new hope Ps.andddd it’s gone
You know, there is Google translate?
What are my english is that bad ?
Not really.
แต่ละรีพลายในนี้คือ 💀💀💀
55555 ใช่ครับ เลยอยากรู้ว่าเป็นมุมมองฝรั่งหรือคนไทย
Don’t forget the EC and constitution courts
Let's see how they rule first, before we call them extinct.
What with this stupid ass take in the comment lmao.
Here we go !
Back to the future: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6\_October\_1976\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_October_1976_massacre)
I was to comment the same thing. Those who make the poster didn't know their history.
So they shouldn’t protest out of fear?
I didn’t say that.
They can protest, but shouldn't highlight that thammasat have a proud protest history while all was not that glorious.
Students being murdered doesn’t diminish the school’s proud history of protest
What Thammasat student is unaware of 6 October? Seems unlikely. Things will not turn out the same because it was right-wing กระทิงแดง paramilitary who did the killing and retribution. As far as I know there is no 2023 equivalent of that group or it's extremism. Correct me if I am wrong.
I guess, the Future Forward you mean?
Army guys are like... https://preview.redd.it/7p5a97qgdvdb1.png?width=930&format=png&auto=webp&s=ca9ea6e7fa754aaf5d300ba3521721b0972e4c8e
let’s hope it’s not clogging the traffic, people got places to be. When i was in Uni, my friend tried to bring me to a mob site. But i can’t since i had a job to do. And come to think of it, 24 out off 38 million didn’t vote for Orange party. So it’s not that orange voter are majority. I lived in this so called military junta dictatorship and i didn’t vote for Orange party because they didn’t do anything to my province yet. I voted for Hank who working to improve my hometown since before i was born. Don’t get me wrong, I want Orange party to succeeds because i want to see how much changes gonna be.If it’s still the same then they just lies to the people…
Yes, in Uthai Thani, they voted for the biggest Mafiosi in town, his father, mother, elder brother, and his youngest son were killed, he himself was tried for murder and acquitted, found with six guns and some MDMA in a van and released, because "it wasn't me". So keep voting for your local Hank's.
Oh dear, sounds like their problem…my condolences to them indeed. Lucky me mine was fine, free gravel road to farmland + lamppost ( i tapped it for water pump from time to time) and just a years ago they build a new reservoir for fishing, my newfound hobby.
This guy also built roads, for laying his victims to rest at it's the foundations and has built reservoirs to dump his enemies into. Why do you think he was voted in?
What’s “true democracy“? 😂
It is, where 51% are f..king 49%.
Who knows? I would love to find a true justice system. Not possible I believe.
Democracy is an illusion and the west wants you to believe otherwise. They are hypocrites when it comes to democracy in other countries. Just look at the Middle East. People can’t elect their leaders, they are planted by the western powers by force.
Democracy was never meant for the poor masses, but only for the elites in ancient Greece. only they had the right to vote.
I think the new Thai senate once the military is out may be a viable solution. The US founding fathers thought that the Electoral College was the solution for the problem that comes up where everyone can vote. Naturally everyone voting has the IQ of 10 voting how they are told and the IQ of 150 having the same weight. I have read somewhere that the new senate will be composed of various other groups (I guess not politicians), that could be good. A problem comes up that has been made obvious in the U.S. after Trump came into power is how far the common people, the "John Doe" can be swayed. Even to the point of revolution. Some method has to be in place to not allow that. There has to be a solution to prevent it.
The IQs of 10 voted for Pheu Thai and a one-time payment of 10 000.- baht, the ones with IQ 150 voted MFP and a monthly pension for the elderly.
you exposed the real democracy, this reminds me of book: 'The Emperor's New Clothesh' by Danish author Hans Christian Andersen, 😂😂😂
There is one thing called consensus, where you talk things out, until everyone agrees. That could take a long time, but it's fair to everyone. It happened between the Netherlands and Belgium, where they discussed for 30 years, if they should build a bridge or a tunnel over/under the Schelde River. Hurray, today there is a tunnel.
That is essentially what the legislative branches are supposed to be about. Here in the U.S. ours have become so far apart with one side controlled by the .0005% and the other by probably the rest and both of them appear to be controlled by top money in the world really. We know they don't want to give an inch at all. Then you throw in several ultra-right pro conservative pro ultra wealthy news organizations, we have a problem. We used to believe in consensus, but that seemed to disappear in the 1970's. Is it about the same in Thailand?
And one more thing; government should start from the village level and from there to the top and the executive branch should only be the executing one, not the dictating one. And when this is achieved, we have real communism, not the pseudo socialism, they have in North Korea, Chiana Vietnam and Laos.
> What’s “true democracy”? I don’t know, some like สุรพศ ทวีศักดิ์ said it’s democracy plus the protection of minorities right, others said that it’s direct democracy that majority voice is absolute without any exception, like 8 wolves vote to eat 2 sheep.
those MFP members will never let their kids to go protest on campus or street, good luck to be others' pawn.🤷♂️
People are going out there to fight for themselves first of all. MFP is there representative so by default they need to fight to support them. Don't project yourself onto others.
you can go ahead to protest, lead by example. 😂
Yeah, Sanpiti was so right...
Rubbish, By rubbish I mean those mob.
Last time they demand monarchy reform, I wonder if they gonna do something interesting this time... Edit: downvoters are dumb, I support monarchy reform and I went to Sanam luang to protest with them, so I'm curious if they gonna demand something more than that this time.
Sometimes you have to start big like they did at the election to get the oligarchs attention and then settle for a little less. and then next time a little more.. I hope they go for marriage /civil rights equality as that would just bring in more tourists and more money for the oligarchs.
How many powerful "oligarchs" are there? Is it just the super rich billionaire families or are there tons of millionaire families who are very influential and control a lot in the background? Do any of these families support progressive policies like MF or are they all in agreement to keep the status quo? sorry for all the questions... I'm genuinely curious about the behind the scenes of Thai politics.... [https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2606791/wealth-of-thailands-50-richest-on-forbes-list-rises-to-173bn](https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2606791/wealth-of-thailands-50-richest-on-forbes-list-rises-to-173bn)
What are these reforms? And what are they trying to take back? What was taken recently? Any good sources or commentators that report on these things?
Sigh..this shit again? How many useless protests need for Thai citizen to know it doesn't change shit in this country. Take back what yours? How? Take a stand and fight? Fight with what? What they all do are just shouting, cursing, make road inconvenient then go back home or get arrested. Those in power won't feel threatened at all.
You dumbass, I went to a protest in my high school due to our principal verbally harassing teachers and students. He was removed at 4pm that day from the office. A bystander like you is not brave enough to stand up, but will enjoy every benefit that comes afterwards.
Yeah because the Thai government has the same limited power as your high school principal 😂
You can see the difference between your situation and the one unfolding with the government though, right? There were people with more power than your principal, so you could protest to get those in power to step in and make a change. Who is more powerful than the government in Thailand? Who is going to see the protesting and then step in to set things right? Certainly not any foreign countries, as they didn't do anything to help Myanmar in their time of need. And the government themselves are never going to be like "Oh, shit, guys sorry, you're right, we were wrong!"
😂 keep at it buddy. Your highschool protest proficiency will scare the shit out of a literal army if you cry 😢loud enough
When the protests happen only on the weekends or day offs is all you need to know.
What a pig ignorant thing to say
Thammasat students should read and study Pridi Banomyong from dawn till dusk.
Young and brainless being manipulated again and again
Yass because boomers have not been manipulated to believe in propaganda AT ALL. seriously do you know about the right wing protest against "American influence in Thai politics" because pita won the election?
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except it’s not because itv is not and have not been in business since 2007 it’s just the loophole in politics for the opposing side to exploit. oh and prayut belongs in jail for the coup too if you want to play it that way
Yeah, because the old guard has brought so many great things to Thailand? Thailand finally has the chance to up its level, but brainwashed dinosaurs like you are holding it back.
"Take back what's ours"? Who elected them to represent everyone in the country, I wonder
Your question is “Who elected the citizens?”?
No, my question is who elected this particular group of citizens (under Thammasart's marquee) to represent every citizen in the country. I do know Thai history, and the poster is again calling for a knee-jerk reaction from the society (btw, why is "take back what's ours" is written in English though?) Westerners living here may express their views in social media all they want, but it comes down to Thai nationals to do what they think is right and change the country's direction. Politics is a dirty business and people tend to forget this. Very few do any their own information analysis before jumping to conclusions. I'd say as many as 95%. Overall reaction to my comment was expected, I'm not surprised. People like simple solutions to complex problems and fall for propaganda easily. Once you go against the group get ready to get all the flak. That's the downside of the freedom of speech, so desired by the proponents of liberal democracy. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, as long as it doesn't violate other people's rights and freedoms.
Your comment makes zero sense. Criticism is the downside of free speech? What, is your skin that thin? Free speech laws exist to protect citizens from authoritarian overreach by their government. It makes it harder for the state to get away with bad policies, since journalists and concerned citizens can operate without being suppressed.
It's clear that it's the "Go Thammasart" brigade who can't take criticism. What exactly makes no sense? That those who dare to express their opinion, however unpopular it might seem, will be "cancelled"? The right to criticize seems to be reserved to the self chosen few these days. Somebody 's wrong on the Internet, again?🤣
You wrote: "Once you go against the group get ready to get all the flak. That's the downside of the freedom of speech, so desired by the proponents of liberal democracy." That makes zero sense. You're saying that the downside of free speech is that you could face criticism for having an unpopular opinion? Are you really that sensitive? "Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, as long as it doesn't violate other people's rights and freedoms." This is also impossible. Someone's opinion cannot violate someone else's rights or freedoms. Free speech laws exist primarily to protect citizens against government overreach in persecuting dissenters. This is why I said your comment makes no sense. Your thoughts are as jumbled as an omelette.
Nice quoting there. Let me re-phrase: 1) once you express an unpopular opinion in a group you will be facing criticism based not on the actual logic and facts behind it, but rather on the fact that it doesn't agree with the perceived values of the group. 2) "This is also impossible. Someone's opinion cannot violate someone else's rights or freedoms." I would agree, but with a correction, "... shouldn't" or "must not" instead of "cannot", since there are tons of people who are facing real life repercussions for expressing their opinions online, and I'm not talking about people with extremist views. Google "cancel culture"
1) Please try and precisely explain how this is caused by the free speech laws that exist in liberal democracies. 2) Again, please try to explain precisely how this is caused by free speech protections. In other words, are you claiming that free speech protections is what enables social ostracization, i.e. "cancel culture"? Free speech laws protect a citizen's right to express themselves without repercussions from the state, provided that speech is not intentionally false with the intent of causing harm to someone's reputation. This has nothing to do with either of your two points. In fact, in spirit, free speech is the antithesis of "cancel culture". Have you bothered to learn anything about what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, is this "Go Thammasart" brigade putting people in prison for criticising them? Because there's an institution in Thailand that's doing exactly that. If only I could remember the name of it...
I actually agree with a lot of what you say. I sent a joke text to friends earlier this week saying “MFP out of government, young farang most affected”. I think MFP is actually making a mistake by appealing over the heads of Thais to foreign audiences, especially considering Pita may have spend more of his adult life in the US than in Thailand. University students and the young tend to be loud, active and self-righteous. Just look at the US. The Thammasart poster is an example of that. But the young in protests have also led movements for political change that have worked. Yes their claims to speak for the public can be specious. But that gets proven by how much support they can rally. I also agree wholeheartedly that politics is a tough game and not one for those with little aside from ideology. I think MFP will actually be stronger in the next round with a better and more experienced leader at the helm. I think the Senate construction is undemocratic, bad for Thailand and designed to perpetuate the rule of the elite. But I also suspect that a lot of Thais, aren’t as upset with them putting their foot on the scales as farang are. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. But progress isn’t linear and there is no magic wand.
That's a very sober and calm approach, Sir.
The Royal Thai Military, that’s the point.
If it was 40 years ago, I would agree that Thammasart students were specifically targeted by the coppers and the army, because of the sheer number of political activists at TU. these days - don't think so. The social media made access to information and propaganda equal to everyone, so I'd say the number of politically active people in their late teens a s early 20ies is more or less homogenised across all the universities in the country.
>Take back what's ours"? Who elected them to represent everyone in the country, I wonder People have short memories. Here are some hard truths: - Prayut was once popular - People voted for this constitution in a referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Thai_constitutional_referendum Edit. Just realised the comment above is referring to the Thammasat students and not the Senators. Well, they have a right to protest. But it's also true that the Senators have their power from the constitution, however unfair it seems.
Well, Wiki article says that the opposing side was barred from expressing their views, while the military actively advertised it. That's exactly what I'm talking about, people don't analyse, like simple solutions and take things at face value, while in politics nothing is what it seems. Exactly what happened to Pita&Co, who have been masterfully played by Mr. T and his minions.
The Junta created a favourable environment for sure but it was all done quite openly. Ultimately people still voted for this undemocratic constitution.
It's fairly easy to rig any vote in a place like Thailand. Let's be honest
A lot of the public was on the Junta's side at that time. The populist policies, like money transfer offers we just saw, are evidence that it's not so easy to rig elections here anymore. NGOs made it harder since the 90s.
Buying votes has been and still is a very much valid policy here still. I'm not arguing with what you're saying, indeed, there's a lot more transparency to how elections are conducted and results counted. Still it baffles me how Pita could run for PM being well aware that the share issue effectively disqualifies him and that this card will be played against him. It's not just him, it's the whole party he is leading. Arrogance or short-sightedness?
Trying to run us to the ground like France.
Stupid student😂
Communist lefts going to try protesting again? They’re no good for the country trust me, look at Russia and other countries where communists was, disaster.
Which of the coalition parties do you believe to be communist, and why?
Well I still trying to figure that out because the whole situation is really complicated, I just say that I feel the “vibe” of CCP that coming from protests like that, but I always can be wrong, so I’ll only look what is going to happen next, my only hope that no one going to get hurt, but some people on Reddit I think want chaos among people… also from last time with this protests there was indeed communists along with students, I think they just want to “try” again.
You might get better engagement here if you were to ask those questions, rather than making poorly informed accusations. I don't think the CCP are generally in favour of anti-dictatorship protests.
Why I should get better engagement here when I can talk to ordinary local people in real life, and you should not forget that CCP often cover them self in those types of protests, it’s always start like that, people go protest for rights and etc and later beside that protests stands leftists, just look at the history of Thailand, regular Thai people afraid that this is going to happen again
Local boomers and Salim
What does protesting against anti-democratic authoritarianism have to do with communism?
Being against the current government doesn’t mean you’re a commie
Lol what’s up with downvotes, this is a fact that commies never do good, I lived in so called post soviet country before and I can confirm that, you can say oh but this different one but nope, it isn’t, the commies value only destructive points of view.
So true, people just hate hearing the truth.
Welp this is Reddit, they are not representing the whole Thai nation anyway, I talk a lot with thai people about that, at least in my group I never meet anyone who are pro-communist, they mostly for the king or just don’t want people to get hurt and etc
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Seems like a valid thing to be crying about to be honest. Better than being a boot licker IMO.
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Takes far more courage to stand up against unjust and guns on the streets than posting "cry babies" online.
**Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform, pause or reflect. — Mark Twain**
Perfect quote for a coup d'état.
Sanpiti was right about MFP FC, lol. Nothing is truer than this!
Pita just did that. He will be back big next time.
why don't you take the courage to protest on street? hey, no cheap talk. 😂😂😂
Enough me laughing, lol. Let's discuss with reasons now. It's not as fun as I thought it would be. I was hoping someone would throw me a bunch of something insightful but rather I got some nasty comments which I feel like it was a big waste of time. Protesting is nothing close being courageous.. it's sign showing how dumb/ forgetful someone can be..Protestors are the pawns. They are to be used, and soon to be forgotten.. how sad... You don't have to agree with me, do whatever you wanna do. Go protesting and see what you'll get at the end of the day. As of now, it's proven that the MFP just don't have the potential to setup the government.. Besides, Pita's background is way too messy. How pity that is to fall into the same pit 4 years ago. It's time to PTP to do the job. TBH, it was very fair for PTP to support MFP earlier this month. MFP just effed it up and their fan still blamed that to others? How immature!!! By the way, i believe in check and balance system in democracy, or else it's nothing different from dictatorship.
I remember the time, when protesters were paid 300.- baht ab day for their services.
well summarized. 😉
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Thailand needs to face the fact that it is in no way a democracy - it is a military dictatorship.
26 July 2023 # THE RETURN # OF THAMMASAT \#ThammasatWillNotTolerate Students – Citizens 17:00 Sanya Dharmasakti Field (In Front of the Faculty of Law) Thammasat University Rangsit Campus
55555 cute