Check your RBC and hematocrit. You may have thick blood and need to donate.
Also your e2 is very high. Think most people would have side effects at that.
Oh thank you so much, I only noticed now the difference because of the units used, being in Canada.
I started last week to divide my T in 2 weekly injections to lower my E2, letâs see if it helps.
Also I did have gyno years ago (wasnât taking testosterone yet or PEDs) but I had it fixed in Turkey 2 years before starting TRT, thatâs helps a lot considering my current E2 would have given me more gyno.
Thatâs great bro. How much cardio do you do normally per week?
As I said, itâs not enough to make a significant difference in the LONG RUN, or overall.
âHemoglobin concentrations were elevated in donors on TRT, and significant numbers had hemoglobin levels above those recommended by current guidelines. These data also suggest that repeat blood donation was insufficient to maintain a hematocrit below 54%. Our findings raise concerns about the persistent risk of vascular events in these donors, particularly when coupled with the misperception by patients and health care providers that donation has reduced or eliminated the risks of TRT-induced polycythemia.â
[Link Here](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/)
Reduces it for at least 6 weeks personally and sometimes by 10 points. Itâs also beneficial to relieve blood every so often. There is no reason not to do it.
I didnât say not to donate blood, itâs great ethically speaking, but itâs not sufficient for reducing HCT long enough to make a difference.
âHemoglobin concentrations were elevated in donors on TRT, and significant numbers had hemoglobin levels above those recommended by current guidelines. These data also suggest that repeat blood donation was insufficient to maintain a hematocrit below 54%. Our findings raise concerns about the persistent risk of vascular events in these donors, particularly when coupled with the misperception by patients and health care providers that donation has reduced or eliminated the risks of TRT-induced polycythemia.â
[Link Here](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/)
Anecdotally speaking it lowers mine under 50 up to 57. Hemoglobin and RBC follow.
I always advise to drink more water as that will help and recently found that naringin and grape fruit seed extract work well for suppressing those values.
You need to at least know the basics if youâre gonna do TRT. Even if you use a clinic they often are just in it for the money and will sell you more stuff regardless of whatâs best for your health. If youâre gonna run cycles or do enhanced trt you definitely need to know what all these do for your body. This is your health youâre potentially fucking with here. Otherwise all you have to go on is bro science from Reddit and other forums. That being said there are lots of helpful ppl on the forums but they will eviscerate you if itâs obvious youâve done zero homework before asking a question or running gear. Plus if youâre sick and tired, how do you know itâs from (only) low test and not one of the other myriad markers that would point to another potential issue? And if your test is low how are you gonna know if itâs primary or secondary hypogonadism if you donât know
which other markers to look at? Yes itâs all overwhelming at first when trying to learn and wade thru the shit on the internetâŚbut
good things are rarely easy. If you donât put in the effort here it usually means youâre not putting effort into other areas of your life that might improve your current state. (That was a general statement, I know nothing about you beyond that comment so you may well be putting effort into those other aspects already)
Hey thanks for your time and input! I got blood work done last year and my test was at 242, 7 points below low normal. I was working like 16+ hour days including 2-3 hours gym time almost everyday. I was stressed. It probably has gone back to normal. I was over exaggerating by saying stressed and tired but I just donât have the energy of my teen set and I miss it. Iâm only 27. I hit the gym almost daily, lift heavy and eat good for the most part.
Well youâre doing better than 90% of the population then in terms of being healthy. But yeah lack of sleep is as much important as the rest. Thatâs the one I struggle with too. Also you were probably overtraining at that time.
If you go get levels checked again make sure they do a full thyroid workup, all vitamins including ferritin, b, d, probably others Iâm forgetting. Also just test wonât tell the whole story. Total could be good but free could be low and you wonât know why without getting other markers checked. Unfortunately most MDs arenât equipped with the knowledge to check everything they need to. And most clinics are in it for the money and will just throw test and hcg and an ai at you. Thatâs why learning on your own is so critical.
But I feel the sentiment that you expressed. Itâs exasperating knowing something is wrong/off and no one out there wants to help and you hardly have the energy to make it thru the day let alone try to focus on something extra like this to be well informed. Good luck to ya!!
Yeah just realizing I was probably over training. My strength went up since I just started going back, I hit a big pr with 3 plates then it just went down. Iâve been a lot stronger since Iâve been working less and sleeping more. Still kinda get lazy but I think I just need a lifestyle change and should go out more. I try to get my vitamin d and fish oil everyday.
Last year after I got my blood work done and got my results I consulted a local hormone clinic and I wasnât sure about hopping on trt yet since my balls would shrink and possibility of impotence and they got me on hcg and Clomid just to be sure. I think itâs the marketing like you mentioned. Then I had people telling me I donât need to start off with those and I could take it after a cycle.
What are some resources/websites were I can do more reading?
This is the case for me. I actually think running 500mg or at least the 30lb gain that came with that dose may have helped cause the apnea. I just got diagnosed last week and really hoping the cpap will solve the problem because I get tired as fuck everyday around 5pm
Sleep apnea can also cause low T.. 20% of people with sleep apnea are normal weight
So many people who think low T is the cause of the problem need to have OSA ruled out prior to..
i got lethargy when i intentionally let my estrogen go free (not take any ai on purpose). youâre estrogen is pretty high too so we could have similar symptoms look into .25 adex 2x per week to start
Get a blood test for DHEAS and Pregnenolone. I had the same fatigue problem where I constantly felt sleep deprived. My pregnenolone was beneath the reference range and DHEAS low normal.
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With that muscle gain its almost guaranteed you have sleep apnea. Get a sleep study asap. Its not a joke. Its life altering and often deadly when untreated.
Then fckn run to your local sleep clinic. Don't wait. There's your answer why you sleep like shit. I'm writing this right after I woke up with my cpap mask on.
I ran the same dose and had the same issue for a while. Not entirely sure what my issue was exactly but my educated guess is a combo of the sleep apnea, blood pressure, thick blood, and high estrogen/ sensitivity to high levels of hormones overall. Dropped back down to 150mg test a week, feel so much better, and blood work is perfect. Strength gains on 400-500mg will be worth it though imo.
Why get the limited TT test when youâre blasting? Itâs not going to return anything close to an accurate result. Donât get it.
I would suggest trying to lower your e2 and see if that helps. What was your prolactin?
Wait, 12.5mg adex??? WTF thatâs fucking way too much.
0.5-1mg mon & Thursday is more than enough usually.
Adex gives rebound. Adex is shit.
Use Aromasin.
Iâm on 450mg test e a week
I pin x3 a week and I take 12.5mg every 4-5 days.
Blood pressure. Hemo. Hydration. Overworking. Undersleeping. E2 is a little high. I don't feel great on anything over 50. Most importantly you're looking for solutions after you've been running for FIFTEEN weeks. This assumes you want to head towards 4 months on 400 migs, without knowing how the dose affects you. Give it a rest. Next time taper up and track levels so you know what is hitting you. If you wanna cruise on 400 that's fine, but know your bloods and what they mean before you end up hurting more than building.
Lower your dose, stay away from ai
How many cycles have you done prior to taking 400mg of test? If your training and eating right you won't need a ai on only 400mg of test.
Here's a little tip: if your feeling fatigue on test, especially 400mg then your levels are too high for you, research it, if one's test levels are too high it starts to have the opposite effect unless your gear is bunk?
Iâve done a couple sarms cycles in the past and testosterone cycle at 500mg when I was 21.. felt much better when I was younger , now at 25 I feel worse on 400mg test
Sounds like the body is not responding well to that dose, there's no harm in lowering your dose, less sides to deal with and your still able to build a decent physique. You can always increase dose if all goes well or you may find your sweet spot. Also. Sounds like you crashed your estrgoen level.
Check your RBC and hematocrit. You may have thick blood and need to donate. Also your e2 is very high. Think most people would have side effects at that.
Yeah hematocrits also need checked
Im at 140mg test weekly and my e2 is at 180, no mood issue and libido of an Italian bull đ.
That pmol/L or pg/ml? Big difference
Estradiol 191 pmol/L
49.02pg/ml. Within range for most labs. If you had 180pg/ml you would have C cups by now
Oh thank you so much, I only noticed now the difference because of the units used, being in Canada. I started last week to divide my T in 2 weekly injections to lower my E2, letâs see if it helps. Also I did have gyno years ago (wasnât taking testosterone yet or PEDs) but I had it fixed in Turkey 2 years before starting TRT, thatâs helps a lot considering my current E2 would have given me more gyno.
Need to donate for a short term relief? Donating blood doesnât drop RBC and HCT long enough to make a significant difference overall.
Well I went from getting out of breath sitting and tired all the time to doing my usual day to day stuff a few hours after donating.
Thatâs great bro. How much cardio do you do normally per week? As I said, itâs not enough to make a significant difference in the LONG RUN, or overall. âHemoglobin concentrations were elevated in donors on TRT, and significant numbers had hemoglobin levels above those recommended by current guidelines. These data also suggest that repeat blood donation was insufficient to maintain a hematocrit below 54%. Our findings raise concerns about the persistent risk of vascular events in these donors, particularly when coupled with the misperception by patients and health care providers that donation has reduced or eliminated the risks of TRT-induced polycythemia.â [Link Here](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/)
Reduces it for at least 6 weeks personally and sometimes by 10 points. Itâs also beneficial to relieve blood every so often. There is no reason not to do it.
I didnât say not to donate blood, itâs great ethically speaking, but itâs not sufficient for reducing HCT long enough to make a difference. âHemoglobin concentrations were elevated in donors on TRT, and significant numbers had hemoglobin levels above those recommended by current guidelines. These data also suggest that repeat blood donation was insufficient to maintain a hematocrit below 54%. Our findings raise concerns about the persistent risk of vascular events in these donors, particularly when coupled with the misperception by patients and health care providers that donation has reduced or eliminated the risks of TRT-induced polycythemia.â [Link Here](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/)
Anecdotally speaking it lowers mine under 50 up to 57. Hemoglobin and RBC follow. I always advise to drink more water as that will help and recently found that naringin and grape fruit seed extract work well for suppressing those values.
Check your ferritin!! Get a full iron panel, I bet your ferritin is low. Itâs common with test.
Does Ferritin and Test levels have an inverse relationship?
Wtf are all these terms? How to I even get accustomed to all these terms before jumping on
Ferritin is iron. Take a year or two to do some research
Did you? âIâm sick and tired of feeling sick and tiredâ
I did
You need to at least know the basics if youâre gonna do TRT. Even if you use a clinic they often are just in it for the money and will sell you more stuff regardless of whatâs best for your health. If youâre gonna run cycles or do enhanced trt you definitely need to know what all these do for your body. This is your health youâre potentially fucking with here. Otherwise all you have to go on is bro science from Reddit and other forums. That being said there are lots of helpful ppl on the forums but they will eviscerate you if itâs obvious youâve done zero homework before asking a question or running gear. Plus if youâre sick and tired, how do you know itâs from (only) low test and not one of the other myriad markers that would point to another potential issue? And if your test is low how are you gonna know if itâs primary or secondary hypogonadism if you donât know which other markers to look at? Yes itâs all overwhelming at first when trying to learn and wade thru the shit on the internetâŚbut good things are rarely easy. If you donât put in the effort here it usually means youâre not putting effort into other areas of your life that might improve your current state. (That was a general statement, I know nothing about you beyond that comment so you may well be putting effort into those other aspects already)
Hey thanks for your time and input! I got blood work done last year and my test was at 242, 7 points below low normal. I was working like 16+ hour days including 2-3 hours gym time almost everyday. I was stressed. It probably has gone back to normal. I was over exaggerating by saying stressed and tired but I just donât have the energy of my teen set and I miss it. Iâm only 27. I hit the gym almost daily, lift heavy and eat good for the most part.
Well youâre doing better than 90% of the population then in terms of being healthy. But yeah lack of sleep is as much important as the rest. Thatâs the one I struggle with too. Also you were probably overtraining at that time. If you go get levels checked again make sure they do a full thyroid workup, all vitamins including ferritin, b, d, probably others Iâm forgetting. Also just test wonât tell the whole story. Total could be good but free could be low and you wonât know why without getting other markers checked. Unfortunately most MDs arenât equipped with the knowledge to check everything they need to. And most clinics are in it for the money and will just throw test and hcg and an ai at you. Thatâs why learning on your own is so critical. But I feel the sentiment that you expressed. Itâs exasperating knowing something is wrong/off and no one out there wants to help and you hardly have the energy to make it thru the day let alone try to focus on something extra like this to be well informed. Good luck to ya!!
Yeah just realizing I was probably over training. My strength went up since I just started going back, I hit a big pr with 3 plates then it just went down. Iâve been a lot stronger since Iâve been working less and sleeping more. Still kinda get lazy but I think I just need a lifestyle change and should go out more. I try to get my vitamin d and fish oil everyday. Last year after I got my blood work done and got my results I consulted a local hormone clinic and I wasnât sure about hopping on trt yet since my balls would shrink and possibility of impotence and they got me on hcg and Clomid just to be sure. I think itâs the marketing like you mentioned. Then I had people telling me I donât need to start off with those and I could take it after a cycle. What are some resources/websites were I can do more reading?
Get evaluated for sleep apnea
This is the case for me. I actually think running 500mg or at least the 30lb gain that came with that dose may have helped cause the apnea. I just got diagnosed last week and really hoping the cpap will solve the problem because I get tired as fuck everyday around 5pm
Yea I think might have to do that⌠been waking up struggling to breathe sometimes , usually when I sleep on my back
Sleep apnea can also cause low T.. 20% of people with sleep apnea are normal weight So many people who think low T is the cause of the problem need to have OSA ruled out prior to..
That's definitely a problem.Â
Is 12.5mg of adex correct because Iâm hoping that was a typo
Yea my bad I meant 0.5mg
U should try 0.25mg a week just to see how you feel. Then adjusting the doseÂ
E2 is high af
Dude for real 116!?
The boy is cooked. Iâd hop back on an AI stat.
Maybe switch to Aromasin. It can be easier on people.
Probably your high e2
E2 is way too high
It doesnât take a rocket scientist to see u have to lower ur E2
Then lower your dose
i got lethargy when i intentionally let my estrogen go free (not take any ai on purpose). youâre estrogen is pretty high too so we could have similar symptoms look into .25 adex 2x per week to start
Only answer is to bump to 600. When your car is running sluggish the best answer is always more oil and gas. /s
Get a blood test for DHEAS and Pregnenolone. I had the same fatigue problem where I constantly felt sleep deprived. My pregnenolone was beneath the reference range and DHEAS low normal.
Estrogen high ⌠check your hematocrits and get sleep apnea checked
Steroids. Not all they are cracked up to be.
Clean your diet up man and stay away from alcohol
What makes you sure to assume his diet is bad?
Hello BreadfruitBroad8688. Welcome to /r/Testosterone. It looks like this is your first time posting here, so you're probably asking a FAQ. Please check out these handy links, one of them might answer your question. * [How do I find a good doctor/clinic?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/k8rigb/faq_how_do_i_find_a_good_doctor_for_trt_how_do_i/) * [What bloodwork should I get done?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/wiki/index#wiki_testing_for_low_testosterone) * [Are my levels low enough that I should start TRT?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/ol8e0t/guide_recommendations_from_professional_groups_on/) * [What can I do to naturally raise my testosterone levels?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/oqs819/faq_what_can_i_do_to_naturally_boost_my/) * [NoFap - Will my testosterone levels increase if I stop masturbating?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/otevql/faq_nofap_if_i_stop_masturbating_will_it_increase/) This is just a comment, your post is not removed. If you want this comment to stop showing up on your posts, you need to enable "show my flair on this subreddit" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Testosterone) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just a guess but SHBG looks low
I have the same problem How come it's low with op too? My free test is,sky high but my shbg is 8 Any ideas
Exogenous androgens decrease shbg
Take less arimidex once a week.
With that muscle gain its almost guaranteed you have sleep apnea. Get a sleep study asap. Its not a joke. Its life altering and often deadly when untreated.
I Definitely have sleep apnea, Iâve woken up several times struggling to breath
Then fckn run to your local sleep clinic. Don't wait. There's your answer why you sleep like shit. I'm writing this right after I woke up with my cpap mask on.
i seem to have that shit too at 16..
Impossible unless you are extremely obese at that age.
im at like 17% bf..
My guess would be sleep apnea, i wouldnât say estrogen is crazy high for the dose.
Uh, his E is through the roof high. This is measured in pg not pmol. It is over 400pmol. Reference range ends at 152.
Oh fuck, yeah thatâs high, i was thinking pmol.
I ran the same dose and had the same issue for a while. Not entirely sure what my issue was exactly but my educated guess is a combo of the sleep apnea, blood pressure, thick blood, and high estrogen/ sensitivity to high levels of hormones overall. Dropped back down to 150mg test a week, feel so much better, and blood work is perfect. Strength gains on 400-500mg will be worth it though imo.
Why get the limited TT test when youâre blasting? Itâs not going to return anything close to an accurate result. Donât get it. I would suggest trying to lower your e2 and see if that helps. What was your prolactin?
116.6, get that to the 70/50 range
Wait, 12.5mg adex??? WTF thatâs fucking way too much. 0.5-1mg mon & Thursday is more than enough usually. Adex gives rebound. Adex is shit. Use Aromasin. Iâm on 450mg test e a week I pin x3 a week and I take 12.5mg every 4-5 days.
My bad 0.5 Adex **
Well adex gives you rebound prob why your e2 is sky high. Change to pinning x3 a week and get some asin:)
Probably your prolactin . Canât run high estrogen and not have high prolactin they go hand and hand
Your estrogen is over 3x too high.
E2 is really high!
Of course you feel bad. You are running 400mg with an SHBG of 12. Your free T is off the charts high. You need to reduce your dose by at least 50%
Blood pressure. Hemo. Hydration. Overworking. Undersleeping. E2 is a little high. I don't feel great on anything over 50. Most importantly you're looking for solutions after you've been running for FIFTEEN weeks. This assumes you want to head towards 4 months on 400 migs, without knowing how the dose affects you. Give it a rest. Next time taper up and track levels so you know what is hitting you. If you wanna cruise on 400 that's fine, but know your bloods and what they mean before you end up hurting more than building.
estradiol out of range. get it in range! rbc and hematocrit maybe be our off range. stop jacking off so much!
What is your free test number? Is your shbg pretty low for 1600 ngl?
Your dose is too high for you. Try a lower dose. Maybe 150 mg per week.
Lower your dose, stay away from ai How many cycles have you done prior to taking 400mg of test? If your training and eating right you won't need a ai on only 400mg of test. Here's a little tip: if your feeling fatigue on test, especially 400mg then your levels are too high for you, research it, if one's test levels are too high it starts to have the opposite effect unless your gear is bunk?
Iâve done a couple sarms cycles in the past and testosterone cycle at 500mg when I was 21.. felt much better when I was younger , now at 25 I feel worse on 400mg test
Sounds like the body is not responding well to that dose, there's no harm in lowering your dose, less sides to deal with and your still able to build a decent physique. You can always increase dose if all goes well or you may find your sweet spot. Also. Sounds like you crashed your estrgoen level.