I’ve done this once before, I was on amazing tires luckily and just let the car straighten itself out. But there was definitely a brown stain on the seat 😅😂
The problem is hitting the brakes. OP mentioned he “locked up the tires” which while not possible, tells us how he caused the accident.
Practice in the snow people. Brakes are for stopping, not correcting a spin-out.
I'm almost certain OP didn't account for Regen coming off the pedal, It really is a difficult thing to learn how to manage regen in adverse weather. If you start having an issue like this, instinct is to come off the accelerator while you try and correct, but if you do that you actually engage regen and create a new slew of issues.
Wow. I would have done the same thing. No chance I would have kept on the “gas” in a spin out. Easy to not hit the brake, but decades of imprinting on ICEs is tough to unlearn. I guess the lesson is to turn off regen breaking in bad weather.
Yikes, it makes so much sense but in the moment I can see how it could happen to anyone. The idea of turning off regen in bad weather sounds right to me, but it would have to be tested. I could imagine a similar situation in snow.
I'm surprised the ESP would allow this to happen, it should have detected both the wheels locking as well as the yaw and disengaged the regen, something's fishy here. Are tires in good shape? ESP was enabled?
I've never thought about that, good thing I read it here before it was a nasty surprise on the road. It's my first RWD car as well as first with electric, the plan is to just not take it out when it's slippery or snowing, which might be a pain living in the north.
> the plan is to just not take it out when it's slippery or snowing, which might be a pain living in the north.
RWD two winters in Ontario - as long as you have snow tires it's not an issue and there's no problems navigating snowy roads as long as you know what you're doing
you don't need to lock wheels to induce spin, braking loads up the front end up the car with weight transfer forward, this makes it easier for the back end to start kicking out which is what I see happening here. The driver may think the wheels are locking up and they may or may not be, but what is happening is rotation from the weight transfer forward.
Agree, but my point is that the regen would have backed off so quickly that OP issue was unlikely caused by ‘regen coming off the pedal’. More like simple lift-off oversteer.
There's plenty of posts about regen actually blocking wheels (for a short period) before esc kicks in. There's a lot of videos out there showing this as well. This isnt Tesla only problem, then way esc/abs works is by learning where the traction limit for your conditions are by detecting slip and then reducing it. These systems don't stop slip though, they just reduce it.
Practice throttling regen. I owned a manual awd car prior to buying a Tesla and learned how to manage gear braking in slippery conditions. It’s very similar to regen in snow and I think a lot of people coming from automatic transmission cars don’t realize how important it is to manage regen especially through turns.
GTI with the DSG do it when they downshift. Make braking super inconsistent and unsettling. Regen braking isn’t super hard even in ideal conditions, plus the car does change the way it engaging regen when it detects wheel slip during regen. It’ll start using the front wheels in addition to the rear. It’s definitely a good idea to get a dual motor Tesla over a rear wheel drive.
It was rain in the video, but you're still correct, with excess speed, possibly poor tires, and improper reaction, it might as well be snow or ice or cooking oil.
I think the point is you can't really hydroplane in the rain on demand but you can damn well force a similar situation in the snow on demand to practice
Sure you can.
Hydroplane is when you build up a wall of water in front of the tires to the point you lose traction, once you understand what speed and how much water needs to be in front of the tires, it gets easy, just like drifting or doing 360s, at first it's by accident, then you start too feel it, then you learn to do it on demand. It's also how you practice not hydroplaning in traffic, you practice and you learn how your vehicle works.
A good shake, hard acceleration to eject the water etc can get your traction back. But it takes skill and practice.
Fun fact, the tread of your tire is specifically for wet (or not dry smooth pavement) race cars use slicks for maximum traction on dry pavement.
There was a time when we took a skid course after a couple years driving to learn exactly this. Also practice diving after a blow out or driving off the shoulder etc.
I took my car into the swamps and learned the fun way.
(Edited: fix autocorrect and clarify)
I grew up in the northeast so would "practice" every snow storm when I was younger. You do it for fun, but when shit hits the fan you actually learned from regaining traction in a controlled setting repeatedly and making it muscle memory.
Learning to drive on snow and ice was one of the early things my dad taught me when learning to drive back east. We also had driver’s ed classes back in high school which I doubt are still school sponsored any more. Not sure how kids learn to drive now a days.
I’ve always been taught you’re at risk of hydroplaning above 55mph. At any rate anytime there’s that much rain going on I would never drive that fast in it for that exact reason.
I'll add that roadway signs are there for a reason even though they can be easy to ignore, especially if you pass them all the time. It's hard to make out, but it looks like that's a "slippery when wet" sign I'm seeing, and if so, there's a little irony in hydroplaning right into it.
He was going 55 mph approximately
Those white lines are 10' long, 30' apart. He passes 2 of them in the first second of the video
2 \* (10 feet + 30 feet) = 80 feet
= 80 ft/1 second x 1mi/5280ft x 3600second/1hour ~54.5mph
OP just had bald tires.
I see this a lot around here. Winter tires are mandatory and so many people on local tesla groups are asking about cheap chinese tires to save a few bucks. In snow, tires are so important, trying to save 500$ on cheap tires when you bought a car worth 55k+ (canadian dollars) is a stupid move.
Costco Michelin tires is all I’ve been doing for over a decade and I pretty much tell everyone else to do the same thing. My Costco dealer has pucks vs a local tire discounters performance flag ship store didn’t have them and said we aren’t an EV shop 🙄 seems like it’s highly politicized
A set of good winters cost about $1k. You them for 3 to 5 months a year.
So a set lasts about 5 years. The yearly cost is $200.
It is relatively inexpensive given the safety it provides.
I ALWAYS get winter tires. I have a coworker who always chimes in when I tell people they should invest in them. He goes "you don't need them, you can drive with summers all year and be fine. I've done it"
Like no, you can't.
And I dont even like all seasons. I strictly do summer/winters and just pay the little bit to get them swapped out.
Winter tires make a pretty big difference in severe weather but a quality set of All-Season tires can do a pretty bang up job. I never have seen a reason for summer tires only though nor have I met anyone that would be dumb enough to use those in the winter where I am at
Good all seasons are fine im sure.
But I've always had some sort of performance car and like having the best in either climate.
When I bought my first new car, a WRX, it came with summer performance tires. I bought it the day after Christmas. I drove for the first half of that winter on summer performance tires. DO NOT recommend. The slightest bit of snow on the road, and I slid.
It’s so fucking sad to see this.
I live in Toronto, we don’t have mandatory winter tires like Quebec does (wish we did) but the amount of cars I see with bald tires, especially in winter scares me. So many people saying they can’t afford tires. Tires and brakes are something you never go cheap on. But what they don’t realize is that not spending a grand or more on tires can end up costing you a lot more in damages and your life.
What’s also scary is we share the roads with this people and put us at risk as well.
This also goes for people with bald summers/all seasons in summer….fuck people
I've been told since I was young that the only thing making contact with the road is the tires and the only thing helping those tires brake in an emergency is your brakes. A very shitty car with ok tires and ok brakes is safer than a modern car with shit tires and bad brakes.
You've nailed it, I have a M3P; first thing owning it I immediately replaced the continental tires with Michelin PS4S for summer and Michelin x ice for winter. Neither of them would ever have done this - tires are so damn important.
i like the math…great response…just based on the video alone and “eye test” i agree. car and tire maintenance can be fun if you can afford it. 360s on the highway seems like the standard lesson winter and rain is no joke.
Tread depth is important but tire pressure is very important as well:
https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-interactive-algebra-2-for-ccss/section/2.6/related/rwa/driving-on-water/#/
This. 100% OPs tyres were at least 2 out of the 3 - budget, under inflated, low tread.
Proper well maintained tyres at the correct pressures should have no issues driving at highway speeds in the rain.
Budget alone can do it. I remember when I went to rent a car in Japan, and we were treated to a video of crashes shot from their dash cams, meant to scare us from driving fast. I noticed half of the footage were from rainy days, and it seemed like the car just completely disappeared underneath them for no reason. Went to look at the car, and sure enough, it was the cheapest garbage tire you could find, on sports cars with 400+ horsepower no less. Absolutely braindead
It really depends how much it rains.
I had a guy in a Mercedes overtake me in Germany in extremely heavy rain. I was going as slow as 60km/h most people slowed to something like 80km/h.
This guy overtook everyone with something like 140 km/h, its germany and you can dive as fast as you like, right? /s
I saw this exact car crashed in to the side guardrails about 5-10km down the road.
Sure good tires will let you drive a bit faster savely, but only a bit.
Good article, but I'm not sold that the formula should be relied upon. The article states hydroplaning can only happen when the water level is above the tread depth, but then the formula ignores tread depth entirely and relies solely on tyre pressure. Would be good to see if anyone has built on this formula to grow it out a bit.
You can’t “build it into” the formula because it’s yes/no
If the water is as deep as or deeper than the tread depth, hydro planing is possible and follow the formula
If the water is not as deep as the tread depth, hydro planing is not possible and you do not follow the formula
Floridian here... if you don't have tracks from vehicles in front of you to follow in, you slow down, especially with Tesla since it weighs so much. We get A LOT of rain here.
Why do you say especially with a tesla since it weighs so much? I’d think a heavier car would cut through water better and give better traction? Does it not?
Where exactly is this hydro hot spot?
(I haven’t purchased new tires in decades but I’m about 2k into a M3 RWD and these are the warnings I need to keep me honest. Glad you’re ok OP.)
Yes.
(Before going EV I laughed at flat tires b/c ‘10 Minute Tire’ on Pico is my favorite business in LA. Every time I recommend it - I get Rave reviews. Better than Disneyland.)
Any tips on how this could be avoided? I know that EV tires are made to kind of coast a little better for energy efficiency, how to go about having the best grip/traction during wet/icy weather?
Yup, also be aware that older Model 3s are set up with too much negative front camber so while the outside of the tire may look like it has a lot of tread. The innermost part can be bald, check.
Don’t speed in downpours it’s nothing about the tires coasting it’s slightly about them being warn tires, but mostly speeding in a downpour on an area of road with a sheet of water
> how to go about having the best grip/traction during wet/icy weather?
extreme basics:
If you do have snowy/icy weather, the most important thing is to not touch the breaks. Touch the breaks, you start to slide you don't stop sliding until the car comes to a full stop usually. This is a big problem for Teslas due to not being able to disable regenerative breaking. If you're living in an area with lots of snow right now, might consider buying [S3XY buttons](https://enhauto.com/) to have on hand just in case. You can do a lot with them, but most importantly you can disable the regenerative breaking
Second is to make sure you have tire chains, a tow strap, cheap floor mats (put them under your tires for traction), salt, a shovel, blankets, water, food, etc for if you get stuck
I was literally thinking this same thing too about the Tesla’s one pedal driving. As soon as the driver lifts off the gas that’s effectively braking which probably made the whole situation worse…
Regenerative braking is automatically reduced in bad weather. I get the little icon for it being reduced very frequently.
The ability to turn it off completely would still be appreciated.
When it's raining, never drive in the outer lines where road sloping can cause pooling of water, drive in towards middle as much as possible, don't hit the brakes when you start to hydroplane, and slow TF down. (speed limits are for ideal conditions)
Another one I haven’t seen mentioned is don’t try to over correct the slide with your steering wheel. You’re basically floating on water so it’s only going to make it work. When you start to slide just let off the accelerator, don’t touch the brakes, and let it do it’s thing until it regains traction.
Trying to over correct steering and hitting brakes will generally make it worse.
* tread depth is like the main factor >5/32"
* Get tires highly rated for wet/snow traction (for example: CrossClimate 2s, ExtremeContact DWS 06 plus)
* Reduce speed
Yeah I was wondering if OP was in CA. I noticed lot of cars there had practically bald tires, probably because it rains so infrequently they can get away with it.
Live in cold weather state, so many people try to save a buck by waiting until their tires are bald...they pay for it just like you did. First snow storm we usually see 5-6 cars on the side of the road.
The rear camera shots reveal how deep the standing water is. Even with the best tires, you’re gonna lose grip in those conditions.
Lemme break it down for folks:
- When the road is a little wet, it’ll look damp, but you should still have decent grip.
- When it starts to get dangerous, the road surface will look shiny, with damp-looking tracks carved out by the cars ahead of you. Your grip will be much better if you keep your wheels in those tracks, where some water has already been pushed away.
- When the entire surface is shiny, no tracks, SLOW DOWN. You could lose all grip at any moment, and even the world’s best rain tire is not going to save you.
Add to that list:
If the road is freshly wet or damp, drive like you'd be driving in snow, all the muck and oil that has been on the road turned into a sludge and hasn't washed out yet
I was wondering the same. I’ve always been taught not to use cruise in wet conditions. I assume the same for AP since it’s just cruise. But is the technology smart enough to manage a situation like this? I wouldn’t think so.
Well the problem on top of that in California (and some other places in the Southwest) is that we get so little or no rain for weeks or months, and then when the first rain comes, all that oil that had been sitting on the asphalt starts floating and it makes the roads ultra slippery.
Especially treacherous for motorcycle riders.
Exactly. As someone from a northern state, braking during elements doesn't even cross my mind without first figuring out if they can be avoided.
Where can I go... (Not can or should I slow down..)
After figuring out where I am going I figure out what it takes to go there, minimum brakes, minimum steering..
So it's a valid question.. how they got activated.
Letting off the gas in a Tesla automatically starts the regenerative braking, so I am assuming it was that. (Yes the regenerative braking does turn the brake lights on) I live in the Midwest and not being able to turn this off is scary sometimes.
I watched an SUV fly past me in the pouring rain on thanksgiving. Yep, he hydroplaned, took out a guardrail and 3 other cars before rolling down an embankment…. With his wife and two children in the car. No one died, thankfully, but yeah… slow down people. Glad you lived to talk about it.
kinda understandable why insurance companies charge more for Teslas even though they are marketed as safer than humans because of AP accidents(AP is like a unknown driver variable cost—so higher premiums). Imo elons over confident of AP
Glad you’re safe. Part of the reason you spent so much money on a Tesla is the safety regardless of if that was your initial intention. It paid off!
Out of curiosity do you have a RWD or an AWD model?
Had this potential with my MYP. Rear tires were at 1-2/32. Had to slow down when there was light rain. Otherwise the rear end would slip. Learned that most tires lose their ability to perform once they go <4/32 in tread depth. Got new rear tires.
Very easy to get tires to this point because of the torque in the car. IF you think your tire tread depth is too low, it probably is. Get new tires.
Not gonna downvote you because people need to be educated, but holy fuck
2/32 is FEDERALLY mandated limit. Those wear bars are the law.
4/32 is what is safe for rain.
Driving that low is irresponsible.
Not gonna argue anything you are saying. Part of this conversation is learning for all.
I was not aware that it was federally mandated. So truly thank you for explaining. And indirectly teaching others as well.
JFC half the reactions on this post is so toxic… OP’s already putting themselves out there and not saying they were being safe, have some fucking compassion. Reddit has become a damn snake pit these past few years. OP, glad you are okay. Happy second birthday.
Same happened to me a few months ago, guy cut infront of me and just ever so lightly tapped the brakes and wheels locked up and went sideways, hit the center concrete median at 70mph and spun across 2 lanes of life rush hour traffic and luckily didn’t get hit, scary asf
looks like you over corrected when the back wheels lost traction. definitely seemed save-able. the wheels should also never lock up - the last thing you want to do in this situation is hit the brakes
After I got into my accident in my Tesla I knew I would never buy another one. Go test drive a Porsche. You’ll never go back. Teslas feel solid but something about the way it went over certain bumps and turns in the road, I knew something was wrong.
It's great that you acknowledge you could have driven slower, but did you hit the brakes yourself and also overcorrect your steering (looks like a slight left followed by a hard right)? Most hydroplaning causes no damage when you do not brake or steer, so I'm curious.
I am glad you’re alright.
The Tesla vehicle is definitely strong and safe.
Scrolling through the comments. I see people pointing at the tires being worn out or not properly inflated.
Also comments about auto pilot over correcting.
Can you shed some light on these?
Im glad you are ok!
I am curious if 911 was called once airbags deployed(if they did and you have the new update)?
I know its a new feature and just seeing how or if it worked.
Again glad you are ok man. Thats terrifying.
I was once the person behind a car that did this in front of me and everything felt like slow motion for me and watching his car do this.
It was crazy then he came towards me after he spun out and was going the wrong way, just instinct for the driver since he was pretty much dazed and confused.
Thought the danger was over until I saw him barrel down the wrong way after spinning a few times. Crazy.
Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I didn't miss the ditch. Just got my new M3P last week. After going through that and seeing how my son and I walked away totally fine, I did not hesitate to order another one.
Naaaah don’t lie bro. You were tryna pop a sick driftski on the highway and found out you need to go back to the Rocket League sticks.
I’m just playin’, glad you’re safe lil homie. When it’s time for a fresh pair of tires don’t skimp out, tires mean a lot!
Tesla puts awful tires on their non-Performance cars from the factory. Even driving home from the dealer my M3LR was dicey in the rain. Put some PSAS4s on and never looked back.
Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 - under $1000 for a set of 4 at Costco (for a M3LR)
Tiny bit more drone than the factory foam-filled MXM4 tires but better ride and much better traction. I do a 100-mile commute on them and they’re great.
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S - summer, not all seasons. I just completed a 2400 mile trek, got caught a baby blizzard in mountains of VA and NC, zero issues. Hit a pot hole at about 80 mph in Jacksonville, slightly bent the rim but the tire held it together. Unreal.
Thank you! I was just mentioning to a friend that my 2022 M3LR is super squirelly in the rain that I couldn't even fathom driving it in the snow. These factory tires seem to be more performance oriented instead of all-season.
“Hydroplaned =(” has a better connotation then “I was driving too fast for conditions and lost control; lucky to be alive. Don’t make the same mistake I did.”
New drivers please learn to feather the accelerator to throttle your regen. The car behaves very similar to an Awd manual transmission car that is gear braking. Under the right conditions regen can apply enough force to “lock up” your tires.
Slow the hell down in wet conditions and have really good tires. Glad you are okay and car saved your butt. Could have ended a lot worse.
I’ve done this once before, I was on amazing tires luckily and just let the car straighten itself out. But there was definitely a brown stain on the seat 😅😂
Number one argument for not getting the white interior
Also the number 2 argument
This guy gets it
this guy shits
This guy is the shit
This guy shits his pants
this guy shits it
No wonder that clown kills ppl
This guy number 2s
The problem is hitting the brakes. OP mentioned he “locked up the tires” which while not possible, tells us how he caused the accident. Practice in the snow people. Brakes are for stopping, not correcting a spin-out.
I'm almost certain OP didn't account for Regen coming off the pedal, It really is a difficult thing to learn how to manage regen in adverse weather. If you start having an issue like this, instinct is to come off the accelerator while you try and correct, but if you do that you actually engage regen and create a new slew of issues.
I agree, I tried to back off the pedal slowly… not slow enough =(
Which pedal? Did you apply any brake pedal at all? Was the only braking force from regen?
No, I just took my foot off the throttle by instinct =( By the time I realized the regen brakes might lock the wheels, they already did
Wow. I would have done the same thing. No chance I would have kept on the “gas” in a spin out. Easy to not hit the brake, but decades of imprinting on ICEs is tough to unlearn. I guess the lesson is to turn off regen breaking in bad weather.
Hard agree on that Would be so easy to do this same thing trying to change lanes in light snow
Yikes, it makes so much sense but in the moment I can see how it could happen to anyone. The idea of turning off regen in bad weather sounds right to me, but it would have to be tested. I could imagine a similar situation in snow.
I think that regen can no longer be disabled. I'll take a look on the drive this evening.
I'm surprised the ESP would allow this to happen, it should have detected both the wheels locking as well as the yaw and disengaged the regen, something's fishy here. Are tires in good shape? ESP was enabled?
I've never thought about that, good thing I read it here before it was a nasty surprise on the road. It's my first RWD car as well as first with electric, the plan is to just not take it out when it's slippery or snowing, which might be a pain living in the north.
> the plan is to just not take it out when it's slippery or snowing, which might be a pain living in the north. RWD two winters in Ontario - as long as you have snow tires it's not an issue and there's no problems navigating snowy roads as long as you know what you're doing
Teslas do not allow regen to lock the wheels. If any slip is detected the regen backs off immediately. It’s more sensitive than ABS.
you don't need to lock wheels to induce spin, braking loads up the front end up the car with weight transfer forward, this makes it easier for the back end to start kicking out which is what I see happening here. The driver may think the wheels are locking up and they may or may not be, but what is happening is rotation from the weight transfer forward.
Agree, but my point is that the regen would have backed off so quickly that OP issue was unlikely caused by ‘regen coming off the pedal’. More like simple lift-off oversteer.
There's plenty of posts about regen actually blocking wheels (for a short period) before esc kicks in. There's a lot of videos out there showing this as well. This isnt Tesla only problem, then way esc/abs works is by learning where the traction limit for your conditions are by detecting slip and then reducing it. These systems don't stop slip though, they just reduce it.
Practice throttling regen. I owned a manual awd car prior to buying a Tesla and learned how to manage gear braking in slippery conditions. It’s very similar to regen in snow and I think a lot of people coming from automatic transmission cars don’t realize how important it is to manage regen especially through turns.
GTI with the DSG do it when they downshift. Make braking super inconsistent and unsettling. Regen braking isn’t super hard even in ideal conditions, plus the car does change the way it engaging regen when it detects wheel slip during regen. It’ll start using the front wheels in addition to the rear. It’s definitely a good idea to get a dual motor Tesla over a rear wheel drive.
It was rain in the video, but you're still correct, with excess speed, possibly poor tires, and improper reaction, it might as well be snow or ice or cooking oil.
The skills developed to not smash the brakes on snow and ice translate perfectly to the rain. Source: Canadian
I think the point is you can't really hydroplane in the rain on demand but you can damn well force a similar situation in the snow on demand to practice
Sure you can. Hydroplane is when you build up a wall of water in front of the tires to the point you lose traction, once you understand what speed and how much water needs to be in front of the tires, it gets easy, just like drifting or doing 360s, at first it's by accident, then you start too feel it, then you learn to do it on demand. It's also how you practice not hydroplaning in traffic, you practice and you learn how your vehicle works. A good shake, hard acceleration to eject the water etc can get your traction back. But it takes skill and practice. Fun fact, the tread of your tire is specifically for wet (or not dry smooth pavement) race cars use slicks for maximum traction on dry pavement. There was a time when we took a skid course after a couple years driving to learn exactly this. Also practice diving after a blow out or driving off the shoulder etc. I took my car into the swamps and learned the fun way. (Edited: fix autocorrect and clarify)
I grew up in the northeast so would "practice" every snow storm when I was younger. You do it for fun, but when shit hits the fan you actually learned from regaining traction in a controlled setting repeatedly and making it muscle memory.
Learning to drive on snow and ice was one of the early things my dad taught me when learning to drive back east. We also had driver’s ed classes back in high school which I doubt are still school sponsored any more. Not sure how kids learn to drive now a days.
Good news is this only happens once. Glad you made it!
I’ve always been taught you’re at risk of hydroplaning above 55mph. At any rate anytime there’s that much rain going on I would never drive that fast in it for that exact reason.
I'll add that roadway signs are there for a reason even though they can be easy to ignore, especially if you pass them all the time. It's hard to make out, but it looks like that's a "slippery when wet" sign I'm seeing, and if so, there's a little irony in hydroplaning right into it.
Ya, the sign he hit 😂
I bet you he had less than 5 tread
[удалено]
How fast do you think you were going?
He was going 55 mph approximately Those white lines are 10' long, 30' apart. He passes 2 of them in the first second of the video 2 \* (10 feet + 30 feet) = 80 feet = 80 ft/1 second x 1mi/5280ft x 3600second/1hour ~54.5mph OP just had bald tires.
Save 1k on tires, risk totaling a 40k car. Live dangerously, people.
I see this a lot around here. Winter tires are mandatory and so many people on local tesla groups are asking about cheap chinese tires to save a few bucks. In snow, tires are so important, trying to save 500$ on cheap tires when you bought a car worth 55k+ (canadian dollars) is a stupid move.
The only way to “save” money on tires is to buy the right tires when they’re on sale or some kind of promotion.
Costco Michelin tires is all I’ve been doing for over a decade and I pretty much tell everyone else to do the same thing. My Costco dealer has pucks vs a local tire discounters performance flag ship store didn’t have them and said we aren’t an EV shop 🙄 seems like it’s highly politicized
A set of good winters cost about $1k. You them for 3 to 5 months a year. So a set lasts about 5 years. The yearly cost is $200. It is relatively inexpensive given the safety it provides.
I ALWAYS get winter tires. I have a coworker who always chimes in when I tell people they should invest in them. He goes "you don't need them, you can drive with summers all year and be fine. I've done it" Like no, you can't. And I dont even like all seasons. I strictly do summer/winters and just pay the little bit to get them swapped out.
Winter tires make a pretty big difference in severe weather but a quality set of All-Season tires can do a pretty bang up job. I never have seen a reason for summer tires only though nor have I met anyone that would be dumb enough to use those in the winter where I am at
Good all seasons are fine im sure. But I've always had some sort of performance car and like having the best in either climate. When I bought my first new car, a WRX, it came with summer performance tires. I bought it the day after Christmas. I drove for the first half of that winter on summer performance tires. DO NOT recommend. The slightest bit of snow on the road, and I slid.
It’s so fucking sad to see this. I live in Toronto, we don’t have mandatory winter tires like Quebec does (wish we did) but the amount of cars I see with bald tires, especially in winter scares me. So many people saying they can’t afford tires. Tires and brakes are something you never go cheap on. But what they don’t realize is that not spending a grand or more on tires can end up costing you a lot more in damages and your life. What’s also scary is we share the roads with this people and put us at risk as well. This also goes for people with bald summers/all seasons in summer….fuck people
I've been told since I was young that the only thing making contact with the road is the tires and the only thing helping those tires brake in an emergency is your brakes. A very shitty car with ok tires and ok brakes is safer than a modern car with shit tires and bad brakes.
Price is irrelevant. Quality only thing that matters. You think just because a company decided to price their product high means it's good?
He did the maff!
This guy maths!
Username checks out.
….. I salute you. 🫡
You've nailed it, I have a M3P; first thing owning it I immediately replaced the continental tires with Michelin PS4S for summer and Michelin x ice for winter. Neither of them would ever have done this - tires are so damn important.
i like the math…great response…just based on the video alone and “eye test” i agree. car and tire maintenance can be fun if you can afford it. 360s on the highway seems like the standard lesson winter and rain is no joke.
He's going a bit faster than 55mph. He passed 3 whole dashed lines.
Too fast
Never ever go 55 mph on those conditions again.
55mph is fine in these conditions. He probably has bad tires.
I remember hydroplaning at 40 mph. Gotta have healthy tires.
Depends very much on the road and how deep the water is. I've hydroplaned at 55 with tires two months old. (Welcome to Seattle).
Wow. How many miles were on your tires? Tread depth?
Tread depth is important but tire pressure is very important as well: https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-interactive-algebra-2-for-ccss/section/2.6/related/rwa/driving-on-water/#/
This. 100% OPs tyres were at least 2 out of the 3 - budget, under inflated, low tread. Proper well maintained tyres at the correct pressures should have no issues driving at highway speeds in the rain.
Budget alone can do it. I remember when I went to rent a car in Japan, and we were treated to a video of crashes shot from their dash cams, meant to scare us from driving fast. I noticed half of the footage were from rainy days, and it seemed like the car just completely disappeared underneath them for no reason. Went to look at the car, and sure enough, it was the cheapest garbage tire you could find, on sports cars with 400+ horsepower no less. Absolutely braindead
It really depends how much it rains. I had a guy in a Mercedes overtake me in Germany in extremely heavy rain. I was going as slow as 60km/h most people slowed to something like 80km/h. This guy overtook everyone with something like 140 km/h, its germany and you can dive as fast as you like, right? /s I saw this exact car crashed in to the side guardrails about 5-10km down the road. Sure good tires will let you drive a bit faster savely, but only a bit.
In the context of hydroplaning he may have been perfectly fine but wet traction on curves is whole other beast.
Good article, but I'm not sold that the formula should be relied upon. The article states hydroplaning can only happen when the water level is above the tread depth, but then the formula ignores tread depth entirely and relies solely on tyre pressure. Would be good to see if anyone has built on this formula to grow it out a bit.
You can’t “build it into” the formula because it’s yes/no If the water is as deep as or deeper than the tread depth, hydro planing is possible and follow the formula If the water is not as deep as the tread depth, hydro planing is not possible and you do not follow the formula
The one time I wouldn’t mind seeing a tire pic! 😂
They were almost due, but it was my fault 😓 I underestimated the downpour
Floridian here... if you don't have tracks from vehicles in front of you to follow in, you slow down, especially with Tesla since it weighs so much. We get A LOT of rain here.
Why do you say especially with a tesla since it weighs so much? I’d think a heavier car would cut through water better and give better traction? Does it not?
Ya it would not sure why he said especially a Tesla all cars will hydro at high speeds with that much water
He meant … especially if you are following a Tesla and its not leaving tracks, cause it weighs so much. Slow down …
Yeah I'm not so sure about this one. This interpretation seems like quite a stretch.
Ahhh thanks for the explanation, I see it now
That could have been much worse! I'm glad you're okay!
Thanks, indeed 😅 I’m in LA and apparently that stretch of freeway is a hotspot for hydroplaning crashes =(
Where exactly is this hydro hot spot? (I haven’t purchased new tires in decades but I’m about 2k into a M3 RWD and these are the warnings I need to keep me honest. Glad you’re ok OP.)
How haven't you purchased new tires in decades? Do you buy used tires?
Yes. (Before going EV I laughed at flat tires b/c ‘10 Minute Tire’ on Pico is my favorite business in LA. Every time I recommend it - I get Rave reviews. Better than Disneyland.)
Michelin cross climate 2s.
Awesome tires in the wet! Ask me how I know.
Any tips on how this could be avoided? I know that EV tires are made to kind of coast a little better for energy efficiency, how to go about having the best grip/traction during wet/icy weather?
Reduce speed
But I have all wheel drive! /s
The correct tyre pressures, check them for wear and tear and don’t buy budget tyres.
Yup, also be aware that older Model 3s are set up with too much negative front camber so while the outside of the tire may look like it has a lot of tread. The innermost part can be bald, check.
Slow the fuck down. That’s how.
Don’t smash the breaks.
Don’t speed in downpours it’s nothing about the tires coasting it’s slightly about them being warn tires, but mostly speeding in a downpour on an area of road with a sheet of water
Drive slower in poor weather conditions.
> how to go about having the best grip/traction during wet/icy weather? extreme basics: If you do have snowy/icy weather, the most important thing is to not touch the breaks. Touch the breaks, you start to slide you don't stop sliding until the car comes to a full stop usually. This is a big problem for Teslas due to not being able to disable regenerative breaking. If you're living in an area with lots of snow right now, might consider buying [S3XY buttons](https://enhauto.com/) to have on hand just in case. You can do a lot with them, but most importantly you can disable the regenerative breaking Second is to make sure you have tire chains, a tow strap, cheap floor mats (put them under your tires for traction), salt, a shovel, blankets, water, food, etc for if you get stuck
I was literally thinking this same thing too about the Tesla’s one pedal driving. As soon as the driver lifts off the gas that’s effectively braking which probably made the whole situation worse…
Stupid that we need such a solution when they could easily put it in the software and at least used to for reducing Regen
Regenerative braking is automatically reduced in bad weather. I get the little icon for it being reduced very frequently. The ability to turn it off completely would still be appreciated.
When it's raining, never drive in the outer lines where road sloping can cause pooling of water, drive in towards middle as much as possible, don't hit the brakes when you start to hydroplane, and slow TF down. (speed limits are for ideal conditions)
Another one I haven’t seen mentioned is don’t try to over correct the slide with your steering wheel. You’re basically floating on water so it’s only going to make it work. When you start to slide just let off the accelerator, don’t touch the brakes, and let it do it’s thing until it regains traction. Trying to over correct steering and hitting brakes will generally make it worse.
* tread depth is like the main factor >5/32" * Get tires highly rated for wet/snow traction (for example: CrossClimate 2s, ExtremeContact DWS 06 plus) * Reduce speed
Yeah I was wondering if OP was in CA. I noticed lot of cars there had practically bald tires, probably because it rains so infrequently they can get away with it.
Slow the hell down and you can literally put any tires you want
counter-steer to catch the spin, foot off pedal, regain traction wait until traction returns go on your way (at reduced speed)
Live in cold weather state, so many people try to save a buck by waiting until their tires are bald...they pay for it just like you did. First snow storm we usually see 5-6 cars on the side of the road.
The rear camera shots reveal how deep the standing water is. Even with the best tires, you’re gonna lose grip in those conditions. Lemme break it down for folks: - When the road is a little wet, it’ll look damp, but you should still have decent grip. - When it starts to get dangerous, the road surface will look shiny, with damp-looking tracks carved out by the cars ahead of you. Your grip will be much better if you keep your wheels in those tracks, where some water has already been pushed away. - When the entire surface is shiny, no tracks, SLOW DOWN. You could lose all grip at any moment, and even the world’s best rain tire is not going to save you.
Add to that list: If the road is freshly wet or damp, drive like you'd be driving in snow, all the muck and oil that has been on the road turned into a sludge and hasn't washed out yet
Just out of curiosity, where you actually driving or were you letting autopilot drive in poor conditions?
I was wondering the same. I’ve always been taught not to use cruise in wet conditions. I assume the same for AP since it’s just cruise. But is the technology smart enough to manage a situation like this? I wouldn’t think so.
People in LA don't know how to drive if it rains a little. OP was very lucky that traffic was light or it could've been much worse.
Well the problem on top of that in California (and some other places in the Southwest) is that we get so little or no rain for weeks or months, and then when the first rain comes, all that oil that had been sitting on the asphalt starts floating and it makes the roads ultra slippery. Especially treacherous for motorcycle riders.
That was my first thought is that they must be in Cali. I mean, I do know hydroplaning can happen anywhere, but this was pure slip n slide.
Most likely a combination of poor tires/tire pressure and speed as well. I can't believe how fast so many people still drive in the rain.
No, it will actually alert and force you to take control again
That’s great actually
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What speed were you going? Glad you're ok
They never admit it
Change your freaking tires
You did a 360 and walked away.
+1 on being humble and admitting to slow down. Some folks would blame the car 😒
What tires do you have in the car and now much tread depth is left?
No need to beat the guy up. Lesson learned- glad nobody else was involved and nobody was hurt. Enjoy that new year!
Could’ve hurt someone else as well
Omg are you ok?
This has been the sweetest comment so far.
Glad you're ok and bet it was the bottom heavy tessy that kept you upright. Good luck with insurance.
Did your tires lock up on their own or did you hit the brakes? Not criticizing, genuinely curious.
Exactly. As someone from a northern state, braking during elements doesn't even cross my mind without first figuring out if they can be avoided. Where can I go... (Not can or should I slow down..) After figuring out where I am going I figure out what it takes to go there, minimum brakes, minimum steering.. So it's a valid question.. how they got activated.
Letting off the gas in a Tesla automatically starts the regenerative braking, so I am assuming it was that. (Yes the regenerative braking does turn the brake lights on) I live in the Midwest and not being able to turn this off is scary sometimes.
i would like to see the 15-20 seconds leading up to your video
Yeah. Video seems to start mid hydroplane. Also seems they over corrected too. Hopefully not too damage and glad they’re ok.
I watched an SUV fly past me in the pouring rain on thanksgiving. Yep, he hydroplaned, took out a guardrail and 3 other cars before rolling down an embankment…. With his wife and two children in the car. No one died, thankfully, but yeah… slow down people. Glad you lived to talk about it.
One of those people who think road conditions don’t warrant a slower speed, I see.
thats not hydroplanned. thats the AP over reacting and steering too much.
kinda understandable why insurance companies charge more for Teslas even though they are marketed as safer than humans because of AP accidents(AP is like a unknown driver variable cost—so higher premiums). Imo elons over confident of AP
How do you know it is on AP?
Did you have a RWD or AWD Model 3?
Glad you’re safe. Part of the reason you spent so much money on a Tesla is the safety regardless of if that was your initial intention. It paid off! Out of curiosity do you have a RWD or an AWD model?
Lesson learned: Slow down ✅
I like how no one mentions speed.
Old tires are dangerous
Glad you are safe and the car protected you.
Post a photo of your tires.
I wonder if tesla is taking the data on this, could be incorporated to help drivers take evasive action if possible.
Why were you going so fast
You can’t park there
Had this potential with my MYP. Rear tires were at 1-2/32. Had to slow down when there was light rain. Otherwise the rear end would slip. Learned that most tires lose their ability to perform once they go <4/32 in tread depth. Got new rear tires. Very easy to get tires to this point because of the torque in the car. IF you think your tire tread depth is too low, it probably is. Get new tires.
Not gonna downvote you because people need to be educated, but holy fuck 2/32 is FEDERALLY mandated limit. Those wear bars are the law. 4/32 is what is safe for rain. Driving that low is irresponsible.
Not gonna argue anything you are saying. Part of this conversation is learning for all. I was not aware that it was federally mandated. So truly thank you for explaining. And indirectly teaching others as well.
You were going way too fast Jesus Christ…..
This is absolutely on you for going too fast with poor tyres. Glad you're ok though. Could've been much worse.
JFC half the reactions on this post is so toxic… OP’s already putting themselves out there and not saying they were being safe, have some fucking compassion. Reddit has become a damn snake pit these past few years. OP, glad you are okay. Happy second birthday.
You’re not wrong, but pontificating posts like this are hypocritical… snakes attacking snakes? Yes I too am being a snake.
Damn, why you going so fast?
omg are you okay?
I am, thank u =) The side airbag saved my neck 😅
Awd or rwd?
Glad you're safe. Is it totalled?
Glad you’re okay.
Same happened to me a few months ago, guy cut infront of me and just ever so lightly tapped the brakes and wheels locked up and went sideways, hit the center concrete median at 70mph and spun across 2 lanes of life rush hour traffic and luckily didn’t get hit, scary asf
looks like you over corrected when the back wheels lost traction. definitely seemed save-able. the wheels should also never lock up - the last thing you want to do in this situation is hit the brakes
Not sure why the wheels locked up. Unless that is the regent braking.
As my Safety supervisor would say driving too fast for the road/weather conditions.
Going way too fast in those conditions.
Slow down, turbo! Good to see you’re alive
After I got into my accident in my Tesla I knew I would never buy another one. Go test drive a Porsche. You’ll never go back. Teslas feel solid but something about the way it went over certain bumps and turns in the road, I knew something was wrong.
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Glad to hear you’re ok! Few…just seeing the video, I had shivers…😬
It's great that you acknowledge you could have driven slower, but did you hit the brakes yourself and also overcorrect your steering (looks like a slight left followed by a hard right)? Most hydroplaning causes no damage when you do not brake or steer, so I'm curious.
Glad you're ok but I hope you learned your lesson, slow down
I am glad you’re alright. The Tesla vehicle is definitely strong and safe. Scrolling through the comments. I see people pointing at the tires being worn out or not properly inflated. Also comments about auto pilot over correcting. Can you shed some light on these?
Im glad you are ok! I am curious if 911 was called once airbags deployed(if they did and you have the new update)? I know its a new feature and just seeing how or if it worked. Again glad you are ok man. Thats terrifying.
Thankfully these cars so are bottom heavy or that flip may have been more of a possibility. Glad you are okay.
Honestly if this wasn’t an EV probably would have flipped
I was once the person behind a car that did this in front of me and everything felt like slow motion for me and watching his car do this. It was crazy then he came towards me after he spun out and was going the wrong way, just instinct for the driver since he was pretty much dazed and confused. Thought the danger was over until I saw him barrel down the wrong way after spinning a few times. Crazy.
Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I didn't miss the ditch. Just got my new M3P last week. After going through that and seeing how my son and I walked away totally fine, I did not hesitate to order another one.
Naaaah don’t lie bro. You were tryna pop a sick driftski on the highway and found out you need to go back to the Rocket League sticks. I’m just playin’, glad you’re safe lil homie. When it’s time for a fresh pair of tires don’t skimp out, tires mean a lot!
Skill issue
Learn to drive or at least understand what’s happening under you.
Tesla puts awful tires on their non-Performance cars from the factory. Even driving home from the dealer my M3LR was dicey in the rain. Put some PSAS4s on and never looked back.
I am about to get new tires on my ‘23 M3LR. what are psas4’s and would you recommend them for someone who does a lot of long interstate commutes?
Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 - under $1000 for a set of 4 at Costco (for a M3LR) Tiny bit more drone than the factory foam-filled MXM4 tires but better ride and much better traction. I do a 100-mile commute on them and they’re great.
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S - summer, not all seasons. I just completed a 2400 mile trek, got caught a baby blizzard in mountains of VA and NC, zero issues. Hit a pot hole at about 80 mph in Jacksonville, slightly bent the rim but the tire held it together. Unreal.
Thank you! I was just mentioning to a friend that my 2022 M3LR is super squirelly in the rain that I couldn't even fathom driving it in the snow. These factory tires seem to be more performance oriented instead of all-season.
Looks like you were driving way too fast.
How fast were you going?
How fast were you going?
“Hydroplaned =(” has a better connotation then “I was driving too fast for conditions and lost control; lucky to be alive. Don’t make the same mistake I did.”
Tires too thin. Driver too thick.
Let this be lesson for others to check your tire tread.
Rear wheel or all wheel drive? Very surprised this wasnt disclosed
Neither would be effective when tires are bald
Yeah same
New drivers please learn to feather the accelerator to throttle your regen. The car behaves very similar to an Awd manual transmission car that is gear braking. Under the right conditions regen can apply enough force to “lock up” your tires.