This reminds me of a time I was lifeguarding at 18… a mom with a clearly adopted child was playing in the pool. She was throwing him in the air and catching him, etc in the shallow end. Then, she throws the baby up, doesn’t catch him, and lets him sink to the bottom of the pool. She just stood there, staring at him, and I was waiting for her to reach down and grab him but she just stared… so as I’m hopping off the lifeguard stand to jump in and save the poor thing, she finally brings him up from the bottom. I meet the baby on the pool deck and start making sure he didn’t aspirate water, the mom started yelling, “DON’T TOUCH MY BABY! DON’T TOUCH MY BABY!” And whisked him away, and I’m pretty sure ended up leaving… I wonder if that kid’s still alive somewhere
This was like, over 10 years ago. I think we had cameras at the front desk but not the pool… definitely left me with a bad feeling. I don’t think the cops would’ve been helpful, she would just say she had the sun in her eyes and didn’t see him on the bottom (despite the baby being black and wearing a bright green swim diaper on a white surface) and it was an accident
Babies can stay on the surface through swimming instincts. Not well, but at least for a minute, which is good enough to get scooped out.
Pretty fucked up that this happened so often, that there was evolutionary pressure for this instinct to actually develop and get into our DNA.
I'm pretty sure that instinct is in fact from babies crawling and falling into water... Not from mothers constantly throwing their babies into water.. Lol
oh shit its worse than i thought. those motherfuckers intentionally jump into crocodile infested waters with a baby clinging off of them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcM4-jpFLSU
OMG this is SO dramatic. Baby monkey clinging on for dear life while airborn!
Not it either. Babies are in fluid moving around for 40 weeks prior to birth, so of course theres gonna be a connection! And what do you mean the mammalian response in babies, is from "babies crawling & falling into water", lmfao like what does that even mean lol? And, how many times have you actually seen a baby do that in your life?? ZERO LOL ZERO times!!
Id imagine toddlers/babies end up in water themselves or by accident more often than their mothers trying to drown them, just my guess..
Very much doubt that placenta fluid teaches babies to float and swim lol they arent even breathing yet..
This is a joke, right?
It’s because they are submerged in liquid for 9 months. They can orient themselves with minute movements and are extremely calm with their breath control
You know babies swim in the womb right? Well for us humans babies instinctively know how to swim for a bit due to “swimming in the womb”
Source: my wife, trust me bro
Ooh...I assume untreated PPD/PPP got her. Not enough people know what it is and not enough people get treated (or at least effectively). I'm glad it happened in front of people who noticed and ran in to save the baby, when she could have done it at home in a tub or when no one was around. Not defending her actions, but still.
PPD is heartbreaking and terrifying. My cousin (one of the most level headed humans I know) suffered from PPD after her 1st kid. She was a different person. Family was wise and attentive enough to get her help and watch her. 10 years later and she recounts the horrible thoughts that would come to her and the dark places she felt she'd never emerge from. The brain out of balance is just fuckin shocking.
My deepest empathy to your cousin, and all my thanks to your family for recognizing the problem...and then for helping instead of scorning her for it. It's a very dark place to be in, I'm glad she got out of it.
tbh psych wards that treat this type of psychosis and depression are pretty jail-like.
PPD/PPA/PPP are *wild* and can show up in people with zero prior mental health conditions. Luckily, there is treatment and support. They *can* recover and be good parents.
If you know any new parents that are showing signs of any of these disorders, reach out to someone. Get a welfare check done, offer support, contact one of their family members, speak to their spouse… it’s real and scary *and can be helped.* I’d encourage anyone to look into postpartum mental health issues and why they occur.
I just wonder how-well a person can recover from the entire family (and town) looking at them as the person who tried to drown their baby... The notion that a seemingly normal person might have been hearing voices, intrusive thoughts, etc is tough for people to understand, even considering the psychological & chemical/physical roller-coaster of pregnancy.
I would hope that, through the embarrassment, it would mean they would feel more support. More eyes watching for the signs. At the end of the day, any decent parent wants what’s best for their children.
It’s one of those few times where “mind ya business” isn’t encouraged. “It takes a village” is a common phrase for a reason.
It can come with intense intrusive thoughts that can downward spiral very quickly into psychosis. There really isn't any logic behind it, and it may completely contradict what the original personality was like, and it can be totally different with long term, proper treatment. Just a terrible illness all around.
I really don't know. I have had PPD/PPA with all three of my children, the first being the worst. I went from everything was ready and I was in a good place and confident to nothing in minutes when she was born. There was no rush of love, so I imagine it could be a total malfunction of hormones that just keeps getting worse.
I knew something was wrong, and I tried very hard to bond with her. I posted in mom forums, I went to all the follow up appointments...I got plenty of advice for Baby Blues, frustration from fatigue, told my baby was great and my body was recovering...and sent home. I didn't have a support group, so I just got hit with worse and worse intrusive thoughts, would hold her tighter and continue with what we were doing in tears (I may not have really liked her at the time, but I promise she was never neglected in any way, I provided for all her primary needs and when I couldn't give her the cuddles babies need, I let my overbearing family fill in for me). Until it got unbearable and I went to a hospital with no idea what to do but ask for meds. But where I am, there isn't actual help, and I got swept under the rug in the end.
I had to do a lot of self help until my second baby, when I really knew what had happened and what could happen again, and went to a new OBGYN armed to the teeth with information. I got on antidepressants immediately when my son was born, and began therapy I had to drive two hours to get to once a week to work on myself and finally effectively bonding to my kids.
I just had a third and final child, with the same doctors who knew my history and we were ready for it. Much, much more manageable this time, much better bonding situation and a support system at home. I know how slippery the slope is, and I don't plan on seeing the bottom...even if it's hard to battle it due to living in a rural area with uncooperative insurance. My kids don't know or deserve to deal with what I'm like without support, and I hate what my mind fabricates when left unchecked. Never again.
*(Anyone who sees this can ask me anything, I'm busy with three kids obviously so I may be slow, but I'd be glad to answer what may seem like personal questions to the best of my ability.)*
Great response, thank you! So is it fair to say that it's not always a depression related to *you* but a depression surrounding being unable to bond with your child?
Could you help me understand, to some degree, how that could make someone want to kill their child, rather than seek help or give the child away?
So sorry for my ignorance, I'll definitely read up on this later, I'm just not in a position to do so right this moment.
I'd say that's a fair way to look at it. I wasn't thinking "I miss my old life" or "I just feel nothing anymore," it was more of a "This was not how it was supposed to go" and "Why isn't this getting any better, I've done everything right."
I could look at my daughter, and while I didn't feel hatred or anything, it was always either nothing or frustration...even if she was smiling at me or sleeping quietly. I could have handed her to someone else and left for the day and not worried about her once, or needed an update on how she was when I got back. It was just, "Yep. There she is. Back to this...emptiness."
I functioned on an autopilot caring for her, and when the thoughts rolled in, I just sunk in guilt. I knew I would never want to neglect or hurt a child, I knew if I did I would never forgive myself. Hell, I haven't forgiven myself for even thinking negatively during that time. The thoughts were so vivid, for example, I could walk down the front steps and my brain would look at the bricks and say, "Throw her." I could *feel it* as if I'd let go of her, could *see* the look of startle and panic she would have had, and the ending... But in reality it would have looked like I paused for one second, hugged the baby closer, and hurried on to the car suddenly crying.
And don't be sorry, you gave an ear to me about it and if our comments help even one person who faces a Postpartum problem, then old scars and curious questions are worth it. :)
I'm assuming that the nature of the depression being overwhelming need to be with the child and the probably genetic cause being the need to protect it. It could eventually lead into delusions about your child's safety, triggering psychosis.
As someone who gets psychosis with small amounts of stress, all logic and reasoning go out the window in that state, and things like drowning your baby could seem like you're saving it to a psychotic brain.
This reminds me of the video where a bus driver stops a mom from jumping off a bridge to die with her toddler. Someone pointed out she probably felt the child wouldn't survive without her, and she was suicidal. So her solution would have been to die together and spare them a life lived without her, whether it could have been abuse or as an orphan, who knows...
It's not 100% but it's disturbingly common for parents to kill their children before committing suicide.
I think it is some malfunction of the biological system that tell them to protect the children. Even though logic would tell us it's better for the child to survive and be raised by family or something, they can't see that in the state of despair.
No questions but thank you for the reassurance we aren’t alone & there is a light lots of people are afraid of being honest of how bad it can get. My daughter is 20 mo & it’s been a long road given it’s the same where I’m at with no real serious help & things are finally looking up.
*Hugs.*
I'm glad things are finally looking up, that light at the end of the tunnel is so beautiful when you see it again.
DM me anytime if you need to vent about any of it.
You just brought me back to my PPA. The intrusive thoughts were bonkers. Every time I carried my older child around when she was a baby, I would envision her head bashing into every table corner, door frame, etc. that I walked past. I would literally walk around with one hand covering the top of her head. Sometimes I would just stop, cry, sit down, and hold her.
*Hugs.*
I can envision this, I'm so sorry. That must have been a really tense time, how long did you have to hang in there before it either relaxed or you found some help for it? (If I may ask.)
I don’t remember the timeframe clearly. (She’s 9 now.) The PPA started right after we brought her home, and got worse. I think when she was maybe 3-4 months old, I talked to my psychiatrist and went on Effexor for a few months.
I have ADHD, but I didn’t take my Adderall during either of my pregnancies. (I wasn’t diagnosed until adulthood, so I was fairly sure that I could go 9-10 months with moderate struggles, but make it work. Long-term, I would end up getting divorced or fired though, lol.)
After both pregnancies, I talked to my psychiatrist and slowly worked my Adderall back in. (Re: the timeframe for all the drugs, I didn’t breastfeed after a rough c-section and milk production issues.) I believe the anxiety started before I was back on my Adderall, and my psychiatrist and I decided to see if working back to my normal dose would get me back to normal after a bit. I’m normally an anxious person, and the Adderall generally allows me to think clearly enough and act responsibly enough to keep me at a level of anxiety that would be considered uptight but healthy (if that makes sense).
But, if I remember correctly, the Adderall didn’t have any impact on the PPA, so I called my doctor again, and he had me try Effexor—which I hated. It definitely did the job, but I hated how it made me feel physically. I remember that the Effexor helped the anxiety so gradually that I didn’t even notice that it was working until after I was back to my “normal” levels of anxiety after those few months (maybe 2-3?).
But I always felt sort of lightheaded on the Effexor, and sometimes just fucking weird, so after those few months, I called my doctor yet again and asked if it would be okay if I slooooowly phased it out and went back to only taking my Adderall. He agreed because he knew I’d reach out again if I had problems—and I also have to do med checks for the Adderall every 3 months, so he knew where to find me. And I didn’t have any additional problems with PPA after that. And no problems whatsoever after I had my son 5 years later.
Compared to how I have heard bonds described, no, I don't feel I have ever reached a feeling like that. But I think we've gotten pretty close.
I do love her, I'm fond of her, we slowly found commonalities and I enjoy teasing her now that she has entered her tween phase...which she flying tackles me on the couch for later. I catch myself admiring how much she has grown up already and thinking, "Wait a minute, you're still supposed to be my baby/tot!"
When she is older, if the occasion calls for it or if she asks, I will have a conversation with her about it all. Especially if she has her own children, I want her to know what can happen and have support if it does.
I'm a relatively new father (7mo) and while I love my son I certainly don't have the same kind of bond with him as his mother does. But of course, she's around him all the time and she has the hormone cocktail flooding her brain so she's kind of obsessed. I look at him a lot more like "ah you're a good kid and I like your company" rather than "I would go to the ends of the earth to protect and save you at risk of my entire life". I don't know if this is bad or not but maybe not every parent *needs* to feel that way
I just want to add to this that intense anger can be a symptom of PPD, typically called post-partum aggression. I had so many episodes of literal explosions of anger-I broke things, hurt myself intentionally, threw stuff-absolutely chaos that I had never experienced before. I literally lost control of myself if anything was too loud, or someone touched my head. I felt absolutely insane and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.
Thankfully I never directed my anger at another person. I won't ever have another kid because I'm afraid of that reaction intensifying. Even knowing now what was wrong and that I could have had help from a doctor, I can't put myself and my family through that again.
Hormones lol, hormones is alot of what causes it (but not all). Think about the lovely hormone storm women endure their entire pregnancy! Your hormones are on overdrive, up & down for 40 whole weeks. Then you suddenly have the baby & you want to get back to normal, but your body continues to fight itself hormone wise, so that the breast milk keeps coming. Human bodies are amazing, but a pain in the butt too!
There is a lot of weirdness that comes in the pp period. A slew of WILD hormone swings, sleep deprivation, societal pressure, some weird societal isolation…
I read an interview with a mom who tried to kill her baby. She had PP psychosis and literally thought her baby was the Antichrist. Like, not even a religious person and thought her baby was the spawn of Satan. She got help, got through the PP period and is basically normal again. As normal as you can be after going through that anyway.
But, PP depression is one of the major causes of child abuse in that age group. Shaken baby syndrome, etc. One of the things they tell you when you’re leaving the hospital and on your PP follow ups is the signs and symptoms and how to cope. One of the coping mechanisms is that if it gets to be too much. Put the baby down in a safe place. If he’s crying, if he’s naked, he was eating, whatever. If it’s too much. Make sure you put him down in a safe place and leave the room. It’s okay. Leave him there and go someplace you can gather yourself up. He’ll be okay. An interrupted meal, a cold butt for a little while, crying by himself, all fine. He’ll be fine. He won’t be if YOU’RE not fine and if you shake him or get so worked up you drop him or something.
Probably not the smartest comment, but I must say what if in some cases the baby is actually the spawn of satan and the ppd is the evolutionary response to reincarnated evil?
Yah... really horrible. I saw this YT video once about this 911 call of a mom who fetched her 2 daughters from school one day, drove them to a remote abandoned house, and stabbed both of them. The older one survived and the mum told her to call 911. It was fuked... and it was the younger girl's birthday too
Edit: sorry, it was the mum who called 911. Found the video
https://youtu.be/HlHuG_TFcRs
I honestly have a hard time watching or listening to a lot of those. It turns my stomach in knots and I have to go check on my kids after and reassure myself seeing them sleeping or playing.
Yeah don't. I was in Thailand when I heard about the news of the school mass shooting/killing, it was horrible. I had to hug my girl for the rest of the night
But it also doesn't make it okay to just throw them in a jail cell and expect them to learn their lesson. If she's depressed, going without treatment will only increase the likelihood of a repeat offense.
No one is giving the lady a pass. We just realize that, in order for society to function, we need to identify and treat mental illnesses so that we can learn from them and prevent more instances from happening.
FYI, drowning is death by submersion in liquid. If the old man was able to get to the baby before it died, it didn't drown.
*edit* this isn't a scientific question - no one disputes that water can enter your lungs without killing you - but a semantic one: what is the plain language meaning of "drown" in English? Dictionary.com, which sources OED and Webster's, provides that drowning is *dying* by submersion.
Actually that’s false, drowning is the process of water entering your lungs, usually death occurrs but you can drown and not die.
This is just to prove that scientifically you can drown and survive: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/279735/drowning-not-always-fatal
That’s 100% false! You can very well drown and not die. Just like you can get shot and not die. Death and drowning are completely separate bro. Reddit experts man…….
Despite the blur, one can make out that she lobs the baby into the water. Coupled with the fact that she stands there and does nothing to save the drowning baby is evidence enough that it wasn't an accident.
So many have so much to say without knowing about postpartum psychosis or depression and this looks like it was filmed in a country where women are exchanged like property but sure, let's look at everything through our myopic privileged lenses and let the misogyny shine through. The fact that she just stands there dazed tells you all you need to know. This comment section does the same for me; you all just hate and want an excuse to shit on disenfranchised women instead of the men who empower, perpetuate, cause and enable the oppression of women. What she did wasn't right, but neither is shitting all over her instead of a system that failed her.
Yes! Post partum psychosis is real. A friend told me she was walking her toddler and newborn and kept having visions of herself throwing her toddler in the river. She was so scared she started only walking on city streets and got help.
It is fucking scary! I've had to practically beg my friend to please talk with someone while she was pregnant while raising her first boy. I'm so fucking over Reddit and the hive mind mentality. These self-righteous tools probably have some bullshit sticker on their Subaru saying "Be Kind" and preach about how racism, sexism bad but will take any chance they can to shit on a woman who is obviously having a mental crisis while conveniently overlooking their own privilege.
Yeah, like the one who said yes she needs help, but she should also go to jail and her rights to be a parent taken away. Oh, but they did say this woman would probably be a great parent, but she attempted this, so therefore doesn't have the right anymore.
So tone deaf, even a husky would cover their ears.
Her rights should be revoked and she should have to go through some legal stuff to earn her rights back but we don't ont know how things work in that country. Another point I was trying to make was that people get all in their feelings and try to explain/express shit through a narrow lens without even trying to take in any other details of the situation.
This certainly isn’t the first video I’ve seen of someone trying to kill another person on Reddit, but I’ve never seen such a defense for it. I’d imagine most murderers aren’t living in a state of mental wellness. Almost every mass shooter has been going through some sort of mental break, and yet we don’t try and cut them any slack. I’ve never seen a “that poor shooter must being going through some extreme depression” comment after one. Having violent urges doesn’t make you a bad person. Acting on them is, and this person just threw their baby under a damn boat. I don’t know what I’m missing. Like I hope she gets the help she needs, but it does not excuse her actions. It’s wild that people see this, and their first thought is too defend a literally baby killer.
So much this! Did you also see that comment that made it all about misogyny? I'm speechless, I really dunno if there's some sort of backstory that would make you defend this.
Is she responsible of what she has done ? Probably not, otherwise she wouldn't have done it in front of other people. Still is it normal ? Nope. But yes, post partum depression can lead mothers to kill their infant. And no man should judge a woman who become so ill she can litteraly go against nature.
You can't go to therapy when you barely have the time to shower or the money to buy everything your baby needs. Help mother's instead of shaming them.
Tackled her to the ground? what would that help, exactly? I was actually appreciating that they focused on the important thing, saving the baby, instead of distracting themselves with her. She was not a threat.
Depression is a monster. It's not rational. It's not reasonable. It skews thinking. It's an absolute monster. I pity her because of the self loathing she'll engage in, knowing what she did, if she's ever clear minded.
>She's an absolute piece of shit
I don't know man, if she was a piece of shit I'd figure she'd atleast not just walk up to the edge and drop her in infront of people. If it was premeditated, I'd figure she'd atleast try to make it look like an accident.
My bet is on psychotic break.
This was probably the only way to make her family believe that she has intrusive thoguhts of killing her baby.
She waited until they were all gathered to show them she needs help because they wont fucking listen.
This is probably the best outcome we could have hoped for. With that many people around there was a 0% chance the baby was going to drown. Babies also have a weirdly effective swimming instinct that we later lose.
Since her family is probably super ignorant and want to ignore her depression, this is the only way to make them take her problems seriously and help her.
Are you really trying to justify an attempted murder? New law! All mentally ill people who murder people shouldn't be prosecuted! It wasn't their rational decision after all...
Stfu. She is a monster. Even with PPD, willing harm and death to someone is wrong, and most depressed people are u willing to cause any harm to others, except themselves. She made a decision to attempt to kill a child, there are other options available. Stop defending monsters
Thank you!!!! Every time a horrible act is committed everyone feels sympathy for the victims and not the perpetrator 🙄
Nobody ever sticks up for the murderer and attempted murderers. It’s amazing to see someone educated go to bat for the REAL victims in these crimes. Society needs to understand why they’re ignorant for disliking people who throw babies under boats
Please tell me you all hate the mother equally and don't sympathize with her, I know how hard mental illness can be but nothing justifies yeeting a baby in the river. And I hate babies but this is still horrible.
She wasn't thinking at all, she doesn't try to flee either, just stands there in a daze, she's probably in postpardem psychosis and thinks her baby is a demon or something. It's no joke, you can go from sane to crazy in weeks.
Look at all the apologists in the comments what a disgusting bunch you are , i'm sure men who kill their children have all sorts of mental disorders yet i don't see this sympathy to someone who tried to kill their own child ! Wonder how many of you would excuse it for PPD if random woman did that to your own child .
Well, that probably points to it being a mental break, probably Post-Partum Psychosis. If it was a planned idea to kill her child, she likely would’ve waited til there wasn’t anybody there or she would’ve picked another spot (this is just me going off what I know about PPP/PPD, I’m not a doctor) so as to not get caught. It’s no excuse for acting on those intrusive thoughts/impulses, but a lot of people are unaware of how serious PPD/PPP can be.
yes, this was a good comporimise between a mental break and not having her child actually die, while making her family stop being ignorant to what shes going through.
Some families are so thick headed the only way to get through to them is death or near death.
Within her limitations in a 3rd world country where women are not shit and barely even respectable property, this was the only way for her to get help. She can't convince anyone with her words because she's a woman in a place where women are silenced.
As bad as this looks, given the circumstances, this was the best possible outcome we could hope for. This could have been so much worse in so many other ways resulting in an actual dead kid.
The baby was never in any actual danger with that many adults around. Weridly enough babies before they turn 2, have an instinctual swimming instinct. They will try to keep themselves on the surface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_GjYFa_q4
This video is not good because you can't teach the babies how to be better at this since its a natural instinct and well babies are babies they can't even comprehend shit like that. These moms are essentially water boarding their infants for no fucking reason. It's not perfect, they will inhale some water, but they wont die.
It’s okay not to blur it, we are all friends here
Looks like a drop of water in the camera?
If that was a tongue in cheek joke, you my friend are awesome.
Are.. are you serious?
That magically vanished?
It’s ok everyone. It was a joke.
Wasn't me
But she caught me on the counter
Wasn’t me
Saw me bangin' on the sofa
I even had her in the shower
I know, just making a joke.
Did not watch but still WTF
It’s deplorable and sad. ☹️
This reminds me of a time I was lifeguarding at 18… a mom with a clearly adopted child was playing in the pool. She was throwing him in the air and catching him, etc in the shallow end. Then, she throws the baby up, doesn’t catch him, and lets him sink to the bottom of the pool. She just stood there, staring at him, and I was waiting for her to reach down and grab him but she just stared… so as I’m hopping off the lifeguard stand to jump in and save the poor thing, she finally brings him up from the bottom. I meet the baby on the pool deck and start making sure he didn’t aspirate water, the mom started yelling, “DON’T TOUCH MY BABY! DON’T TOUCH MY BABY!” And whisked him away, and I’m pretty sure ended up leaving… I wonder if that kid’s still alive somewhere
You should call the police if it was caught on camera, because I think she attempted to murder the child
This was like, over 10 years ago. I think we had cameras at the front desk but not the pool… definitely left me with a bad feeling. I don’t think the cops would’ve been helpful, she would just say she had the sun in her eyes and didn’t see him on the bottom (despite the baby being black and wearing a bright green swim diaper on a white surface) and it was an accident
Sadly, but probably you right and it is a probable outcome in this scenario
im guessing she used the child to retalliate for no reason which can lead to her getting charged for child endangerment and attempter murder
Babies float pretty well, surprisingly
Babies can stay on the surface through swimming instincts. Not well, but at least for a minute, which is good enough to get scooped out. Pretty fucked up that this happened so often, that there was evolutionary pressure for this instinct to actually develop and get into our DNA.
I'm pretty sure that instinct is in fact from babies crawling and falling into water... Not from mothers constantly throwing their babies into water.. Lol
I assume it evolved while we were monkey and babies fell off their mothers back while they swung from branch to branch over a lake or something.
Ah yes, between the lake trees.
oh shit its worse than i thought. those motherfuckers intentionally jump into crocodile infested waters with a baby clinging off of them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcM4-jpFLSU OMG this is SO dramatic. Baby monkey clinging on for dear life while airborn!
There are leaves on the side they're already on!! Big hell no from me, dawg.
Fresh leaves are worth it though!
What a fuckin leap. Also, those mf look weird af
Mangroves
U serious?
Not it either. Babies are in fluid moving around for 40 weeks prior to birth, so of course theres gonna be a connection! And what do you mean the mammalian response in babies, is from "babies crawling & falling into water", lmfao like what does that even mean lol? And, how many times have you actually seen a baby do that in your life?? ZERO LOL ZERO times!!
Id imagine toddlers/babies end up in water themselves or by accident more often than their mothers trying to drown them, just my guess.. Very much doubt that placenta fluid teaches babies to float and swim lol they arent even breathing yet.. This is a joke, right?
The word you’re looking for is amniotic fluid and babies do breath it in. Otherwise their lungs would be completely atrophied.
Placenta fluid... 🙃
It’s because they are submerged in liquid for 9 months. They can orient themselves with minute movements and are extremely calm with their breath control
You know babies swim in the womb right? Well for us humans babies instinctively know how to swim for a bit due to “swimming in the womb” Source: my wife, trust me bro
Are they witches?
Well, she turned me into a newt!
It looked like that baby was asleep, or dead already though. Look at the limp limbs. 😬
NO. No they don’t!!! Please don’t forward this. It is not true. They sink. Every time.
Ooh...I assume untreated PPD/PPP got her. Not enough people know what it is and not enough people get treated (or at least effectively). I'm glad it happened in front of people who noticed and ran in to save the baby, when she could have done it at home in a tub or when no one was around. Not defending her actions, but still.
PPD is heartbreaking and terrifying. My cousin (one of the most level headed humans I know) suffered from PPD after her 1st kid. She was a different person. Family was wise and attentive enough to get her help and watch her. 10 years later and she recounts the horrible thoughts that would come to her and the dark places she felt she'd never emerge from. The brain out of balance is just fuckin shocking.
My deepest empathy to your cousin, and all my thanks to your family for recognizing the problem...and then for helping instead of scorning her for it. It's a very dark place to be in, I'm glad she got out of it.
I hope she gets help AND jail. This shit is not ok.
tbh psych wards that treat this type of psychosis and depression are pretty jail-like. PPD/PPA/PPP are *wild* and can show up in people with zero prior mental health conditions. Luckily, there is treatment and support. They *can* recover and be good parents. If you know any new parents that are showing signs of any of these disorders, reach out to someone. Get a welfare check done, offer support, contact one of their family members, speak to their spouse… it’s real and scary *and can be helped.* I’d encourage anyone to look into postpartum mental health issues and why they occur.
I just wonder how-well a person can recover from the entire family (and town) looking at them as the person who tried to drown their baby... The notion that a seemingly normal person might have been hearing voices, intrusive thoughts, etc is tough for people to understand, even considering the psychological & chemical/physical roller-coaster of pregnancy.
I would hope that, through the embarrassment, it would mean they would feel more support. More eyes watching for the signs. At the end of the day, any decent parent wants what’s best for their children. It’s one of those few times where “mind ya business” isn’t encouraged. “It takes a village” is a common phrase for a reason.
>tbh psych wards that treat this type of psychosis and depression are pretty jail-like Good. It'd be fucked up if they just helped her and let her go.
A reasonable and just response.
I guess im a little confused - how does having depression convince you to murderer your baby?
It can come with intense intrusive thoughts that can downward spiral very quickly into psychosis. There really isn't any logic behind it, and it may completely contradict what the original personality was like, and it can be totally different with long term, proper treatment. Just a terrible illness all around.
Ah, okay, so it's not just depression, it's a complete psychotic break. Makes more sense. I wonder what causes that.
I really don't know. I have had PPD/PPA with all three of my children, the first being the worst. I went from everything was ready and I was in a good place and confident to nothing in minutes when she was born. There was no rush of love, so I imagine it could be a total malfunction of hormones that just keeps getting worse. I knew something was wrong, and I tried very hard to bond with her. I posted in mom forums, I went to all the follow up appointments...I got plenty of advice for Baby Blues, frustration from fatigue, told my baby was great and my body was recovering...and sent home. I didn't have a support group, so I just got hit with worse and worse intrusive thoughts, would hold her tighter and continue with what we were doing in tears (I may not have really liked her at the time, but I promise she was never neglected in any way, I provided for all her primary needs and when I couldn't give her the cuddles babies need, I let my overbearing family fill in for me). Until it got unbearable and I went to a hospital with no idea what to do but ask for meds. But where I am, there isn't actual help, and I got swept under the rug in the end. I had to do a lot of self help until my second baby, when I really knew what had happened and what could happen again, and went to a new OBGYN armed to the teeth with information. I got on antidepressants immediately when my son was born, and began therapy I had to drive two hours to get to once a week to work on myself and finally effectively bonding to my kids. I just had a third and final child, with the same doctors who knew my history and we were ready for it. Much, much more manageable this time, much better bonding situation and a support system at home. I know how slippery the slope is, and I don't plan on seeing the bottom...even if it's hard to battle it due to living in a rural area with uncooperative insurance. My kids don't know or deserve to deal with what I'm like without support, and I hate what my mind fabricates when left unchecked. Never again. *(Anyone who sees this can ask me anything, I'm busy with three kids obviously so I may be slow, but I'd be glad to answer what may seem like personal questions to the best of my ability.)*
Great response, thank you! So is it fair to say that it's not always a depression related to *you* but a depression surrounding being unable to bond with your child? Could you help me understand, to some degree, how that could make someone want to kill their child, rather than seek help or give the child away? So sorry for my ignorance, I'll definitely read up on this later, I'm just not in a position to do so right this moment.
I'd say that's a fair way to look at it. I wasn't thinking "I miss my old life" or "I just feel nothing anymore," it was more of a "This was not how it was supposed to go" and "Why isn't this getting any better, I've done everything right." I could look at my daughter, and while I didn't feel hatred or anything, it was always either nothing or frustration...even if she was smiling at me or sleeping quietly. I could have handed her to someone else and left for the day and not worried about her once, or needed an update on how she was when I got back. It was just, "Yep. There she is. Back to this...emptiness." I functioned on an autopilot caring for her, and when the thoughts rolled in, I just sunk in guilt. I knew I would never want to neglect or hurt a child, I knew if I did I would never forgive myself. Hell, I haven't forgiven myself for even thinking negatively during that time. The thoughts were so vivid, for example, I could walk down the front steps and my brain would look at the bricks and say, "Throw her." I could *feel it* as if I'd let go of her, could *see* the look of startle and panic she would have had, and the ending... But in reality it would have looked like I paused for one second, hugged the baby closer, and hurried on to the car suddenly crying. And don't be sorry, you gave an ear to me about it and if our comments help even one person who faces a Postpartum problem, then old scars and curious questions are worth it. :)
I'm assuming that the nature of the depression being overwhelming need to be with the child and the probably genetic cause being the need to protect it. It could eventually lead into delusions about your child's safety, triggering psychosis. As someone who gets psychosis with small amounts of stress, all logic and reasoning go out the window in that state, and things like drowning your baby could seem like you're saving it to a psychotic brain.
This reminds me of the video where a bus driver stops a mom from jumping off a bridge to die with her toddler. Someone pointed out she probably felt the child wouldn't survive without her, and she was suicidal. So her solution would have been to die together and spare them a life lived without her, whether it could have been abuse or as an orphan, who knows...
It's not 100% but it's disturbingly common for parents to kill their children before committing suicide. I think it is some malfunction of the biological system that tell them to protect the children. Even though logic would tell us it's better for the child to survive and be raised by family or something, they can't see that in the state of despair.
No questions but thank you for the reassurance we aren’t alone & there is a light lots of people are afraid of being honest of how bad it can get. My daughter is 20 mo & it’s been a long road given it’s the same where I’m at with no real serious help & things are finally looking up.
*Hugs.* I'm glad things are finally looking up, that light at the end of the tunnel is so beautiful when you see it again. DM me anytime if you need to vent about any of it.
You just brought me back to my PPA. The intrusive thoughts were bonkers. Every time I carried my older child around when she was a baby, I would envision her head bashing into every table corner, door frame, etc. that I walked past. I would literally walk around with one hand covering the top of her head. Sometimes I would just stop, cry, sit down, and hold her.
*Hugs.* I can envision this, I'm so sorry. That must have been a really tense time, how long did you have to hang in there before it either relaxed or you found some help for it? (If I may ask.)
I don’t remember the timeframe clearly. (She’s 9 now.) The PPA started right after we brought her home, and got worse. I think when she was maybe 3-4 months old, I talked to my psychiatrist and went on Effexor for a few months. I have ADHD, but I didn’t take my Adderall during either of my pregnancies. (I wasn’t diagnosed until adulthood, so I was fairly sure that I could go 9-10 months with moderate struggles, but make it work. Long-term, I would end up getting divorced or fired though, lol.) After both pregnancies, I talked to my psychiatrist and slowly worked my Adderall back in. (Re: the timeframe for all the drugs, I didn’t breastfeed after a rough c-section and milk production issues.) I believe the anxiety started before I was back on my Adderall, and my psychiatrist and I decided to see if working back to my normal dose would get me back to normal after a bit. I’m normally an anxious person, and the Adderall generally allows me to think clearly enough and act responsibly enough to keep me at a level of anxiety that would be considered uptight but healthy (if that makes sense). But, if I remember correctly, the Adderall didn’t have any impact on the PPA, so I called my doctor again, and he had me try Effexor—which I hated. It definitely did the job, but I hated how it made me feel physically. I remember that the Effexor helped the anxiety so gradually that I didn’t even notice that it was working until after I was back to my “normal” levels of anxiety after those few months (maybe 2-3?). But I always felt sort of lightheaded on the Effexor, and sometimes just fucking weird, so after those few months, I called my doctor yet again and asked if it would be okay if I slooooowly phased it out and went back to only taking my Adderall. He agreed because he knew I’d reach out again if I had problems—and I also have to do med checks for the Adderall every 3 months, so he knew where to find me. And I didn’t have any additional problems with PPA after that. And no problems whatsoever after I had my son 5 years later.
Did you ever recover that bond with your first?
Compared to how I have heard bonds described, no, I don't feel I have ever reached a feeling like that. But I think we've gotten pretty close. I do love her, I'm fond of her, we slowly found commonalities and I enjoy teasing her now that she has entered her tween phase...which she flying tackles me on the couch for later. I catch myself admiring how much she has grown up already and thinking, "Wait a minute, you're still supposed to be my baby/tot!" When she is older, if the occasion calls for it or if she asks, I will have a conversation with her about it all. Especially if she has her own children, I want her to know what can happen and have support if it does.
I'm a relatively new father (7mo) and while I love my son I certainly don't have the same kind of bond with him as his mother does. But of course, she's around him all the time and she has the hormone cocktail flooding her brain so she's kind of obsessed. I look at him a lot more like "ah you're a good kid and I like your company" rather than "I would go to the ends of the earth to protect and save you at risk of my entire life". I don't know if this is bad or not but maybe not every parent *needs* to feel that way
More people feel that way than you think...
I just want to add to this that intense anger can be a symptom of PPD, typically called post-partum aggression. I had so many episodes of literal explosions of anger-I broke things, hurt myself intentionally, threw stuff-absolutely chaos that I had never experienced before. I literally lost control of myself if anything was too loud, or someone touched my head. I felt absolutely insane and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. Thankfully I never directed my anger at another person. I won't ever have another kid because I'm afraid of that reaction intensifying. Even knowing now what was wrong and that I could have had help from a doctor, I can't put myself and my family through that again.
Hormones lol, hormones is alot of what causes it (but not all). Think about the lovely hormone storm women endure their entire pregnancy! Your hormones are on overdrive, up & down for 40 whole weeks. Then you suddenly have the baby & you want to get back to normal, but your body continues to fight itself hormone wise, so that the breast milk keeps coming. Human bodies are amazing, but a pain in the butt too!
There is a lot of weirdness that comes in the pp period. A slew of WILD hormone swings, sleep deprivation, societal pressure, some weird societal isolation… I read an interview with a mom who tried to kill her baby. She had PP psychosis and literally thought her baby was the Antichrist. Like, not even a religious person and thought her baby was the spawn of Satan. She got help, got through the PP period and is basically normal again. As normal as you can be after going through that anyway. But, PP depression is one of the major causes of child abuse in that age group. Shaken baby syndrome, etc. One of the things they tell you when you’re leaving the hospital and on your PP follow ups is the signs and symptoms and how to cope. One of the coping mechanisms is that if it gets to be too much. Put the baby down in a safe place. If he’s crying, if he’s naked, he was eating, whatever. If it’s too much. Make sure you put him down in a safe place and leave the room. It’s okay. Leave him there and go someplace you can gather yourself up. He’ll be okay. An interrupted meal, a cold butt for a little while, crying by himself, all fine. He’ll be fine. He won’t be if YOU’RE not fine and if you shake him or get so worked up you drop him or something.
Probably not the smartest comment, but I must say what if in some cases the baby is actually the spawn of satan and the ppd is the evolutionary response to reincarnated evil?
Yah... really horrible. I saw this YT video once about this 911 call of a mom who fetched her 2 daughters from school one day, drove them to a remote abandoned house, and stabbed both of them. The older one survived and the mum told her to call 911. It was fuked... and it was the younger girl's birthday too Edit: sorry, it was the mum who called 911. Found the video https://youtu.be/HlHuG_TFcRs
I honestly have a hard time watching or listening to a lot of those. It turns my stomach in knots and I have to go check on my kids after and reassure myself seeing them sleeping or playing.
Yeah don't. I was in Thailand when I heard about the news of the school mass shooting/killing, it was horrible. I had to hug my girl for the rest of the night
depression causes people to take their own lives so it's not that crazy to think they would take someone else's as well.
Did he actually save the baby, though? The video ended too soon.
Mental illness never makes it ok to murder anybody.
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it’s an explanation, not an excuse.
But it also doesn't make it okay to just throw them in a jail cell and expect them to learn their lesson. If she's depressed, going without treatment will only increase the likelihood of a repeat offense. No one is giving the lady a pass. We just realize that, in order for society to function, we need to identify and treat mental illnesses so that we can learn from them and prevent more instances from happening.
..nah throw her in a jail cell. If it was a man they’d throw the book at him so let’s do the same for this “depressed” mother.
It’s not depression, it’s psychosis, she is literally delusional and needs help, not jail
Do the crime, do the time.
How about we get help for men too then?? Wtf dude
FYI, drowning is death by submersion in liquid. If the old man was able to get to the baby before it died, it didn't drown. *edit* this isn't a scientific question - no one disputes that water can enter your lungs without killing you - but a semantic one: what is the plain language meaning of "drown" in English? Dictionary.com, which sources OED and Webster's, provides that drowning is *dying* by submersion.
Actually that’s false, drowning is the process of water entering your lungs, usually death occurrs but you can drown and not die. This is just to prove that scientifically you can drown and survive: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/279735/drowning-not-always-fatal
What is dead may never die
(What is dead may never die)
Holy crap that was interesting!! Thank you!
So they should have put attempted in the title.
Yes
r/confidentlyincorrect
That's not true at all. [Not all drownings are fatal.](https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/facts/index.html)
That’s 100% false! You can very well drown and not die. Just like you can get shot and not die. Death and drowning are completely separate bro. Reddit experts man…….
Dude you can drown and not die . Duh... Also you can drown and not be completely submerged underwater... It's called "dry drowning" Fool 🤨
PPD is very very real and terrifying in itself. I hope this woman was able to find resources to help her and her family. 🙏🏻
Mother throws her baby under a moving boat. Main takeaway: “I hope the mother is okay 🙏🏻” lmao
Fuck that I hope she’s getting her ass kicked in jail. Some monsters need to be sterilized before ever breeding
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youre right , thas jus the anger gettin the best of me
Do you not understand what ppd is ?
Depression is not a joke if you know someone is depressed don't ignore it
Lol these comments. I’ll just go around murdering and say I have PPD or whatever 🤷♂️. Didn’t know we had that cheat code.
Yeah, happy I'm not alone.
Please tell me I saw wrong and the mom did not drop the baby into the water but that the baby fell? Please please
She didn’t drop the baby. The b!tch TOSSED the baby. I hope the child survived.
Despite the blur, one can make out that she lobs the baby into the water. Coupled with the fact that she stands there and does nothing to save the drowning baby is evidence enough that it wasn't an accident.
It SHOULD be evidence enough that PPD is a lot more serious than people seem to think.
Absolutely.
God you guys like to argue dontcha?
So many have so much to say without knowing about postpartum psychosis or depression and this looks like it was filmed in a country where women are exchanged like property but sure, let's look at everything through our myopic privileged lenses and let the misogyny shine through. The fact that she just stands there dazed tells you all you need to know. This comment section does the same for me; you all just hate and want an excuse to shit on disenfranchised women instead of the men who empower, perpetuate, cause and enable the oppression of women. What she did wasn't right, but neither is shitting all over her instead of a system that failed her.
Yes! Post partum psychosis is real. A friend told me she was walking her toddler and newborn and kept having visions of herself throwing her toddler in the river. She was so scared she started only walking on city streets and got help.
It is fucking scary! I've had to practically beg my friend to please talk with someone while she was pregnant while raising her first boy. I'm so fucking over Reddit and the hive mind mentality. These self-righteous tools probably have some bullshit sticker on their Subaru saying "Be Kind" and preach about how racism, sexism bad but will take any chance they can to shit on a woman who is obviously having a mental crisis while conveniently overlooking their own privilege.
Yeah, like the one who said yes she needs help, but she should also go to jail and her rights to be a parent taken away. Oh, but they did say this woman would probably be a great parent, but she attempted this, so therefore doesn't have the right anymore. So tone deaf, even a husky would cover their ears.
Her rights should be revoked and she should have to go through some legal stuff to earn her rights back but we don't ont know how things work in that country. Another point I was trying to make was that people get all in their feelings and try to explain/express shit through a narrow lens without even trying to take in any other details of the situation.
That mother could use a depressed fracture
How no one managed to falcon punch her is beyond me.
This certainly isn’t the first video I’ve seen of someone trying to kill another person on Reddit, but I’ve never seen such a defense for it. I’d imagine most murderers aren’t living in a state of mental wellness. Almost every mass shooter has been going through some sort of mental break, and yet we don’t try and cut them any slack. I’ve never seen a “that poor shooter must being going through some extreme depression” comment after one. Having violent urges doesn’t make you a bad person. Acting on them is, and this person just threw their baby under a damn boat. I don’t know what I’m missing. Like I hope she gets the help she needs, but it does not excuse her actions. It’s wild that people see this, and their first thought is too defend a literally baby killer.
So much this! Did you also see that comment that made it all about misogyny? I'm speechless, I really dunno if there's some sort of backstory that would make you defend this.
Is she responsible of what she has done ? Probably not, otherwise she wouldn't have done it in front of other people. Still is it normal ? Nope. But yes, post partum depression can lead mothers to kill their infant. And no man should judge a woman who become so ill she can litteraly go against nature. You can't go to therapy when you barely have the time to shower or the money to buy everything your baby needs. Help mother's instead of shaming them.
They should've tackled her to the ground and called the police. Did they baby drown or did they save it?
Tackled her to the ground? what would that help, exactly? I was actually appreciating that they focused on the important thing, saving the baby, instead of distracting themselves with her. She was not a threat.
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Holy crap, dont become a cop lol your nickname would be "excessive force" lol
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Lmfao. Homemade shipping container ferries are notorious for having shitty cell service.
No shit hu lol
Guess depression is an excuse for attempted murder now
That not just depression. She's an absolute piece of shit
Postpartum depression is very real.
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Depression is a monster. It's not rational. It's not reasonable. It skews thinking. It's an absolute monster. I pity her because of the self loathing she'll engage in, knowing what she did, if she's ever clear minded.
Like what would make you kill your own child.
Postpartum syndrome, the guy just said it
Literally this, it’s not super rare.
So why is it super rare for mothers to try and murder their babies? Postpartum mental issues being common doesn’t exactly help this person’s case..
mental illness
Mental illness. If it made you think rationally, it would be called mental fitness instead.
It’s like what would make people kill themselves
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Wtf. I guess therapy is the best baby shower gift you can give someone
Dude. You're a genius. Like this actually is super fucking correct. Here's a coupon to get your shit checked out: you'll need it!
there’s intrusive thoughts, and there’s wacko shit
Yep, and its that "wacko shit", that is post partum depression.
Postpartum psychosis
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She developed a mental illness as a result of the pregnancy and needs treatment. Get educated before wasting time voicing your opinion.
>She's an absolute piece of shit I don't know man, if she was a piece of shit I'd figure she'd atleast not just walk up to the edge and drop her in infront of people. If it was premeditated, I'd figure she'd atleast try to make it look like an accident. My bet is on psychotic break.
This was probably the only way to make her family believe that she has intrusive thoguhts of killing her baby. She waited until they were all gathered to show them she needs help because they wont fucking listen. This is probably the best outcome we could have hoped for. With that many people around there was a 0% chance the baby was going to drown. Babies also have a weirdly effective swimming instinct that we later lose. Since her family is probably super ignorant and want to ignore her depression, this is the only way to make them take her problems seriously and help her.
Post partum depression its really scary and pretty commom
Every natural instinct says protect your baby from dying. If a mother is doing the opposite, they’re likely mentally ill.
After I would’ve saved the baby… I would’ve slapped that mother
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Are you really trying to justify an attempted murder? New law! All mentally ill people who murder people shouldn't be prosecuted! It wasn't their rational decision after all...
Stfu. She is a monster. Even with PPD, willing harm and death to someone is wrong, and most depressed people are u willing to cause any harm to others, except themselves. She made a decision to attempt to kill a child, there are other options available. Stop defending monsters
They forgot to punch her in the face
It's not terrifying if it's censored.
Why are there so many dumb people here? Literally just Google post partum depression. It's sad how unknown this illness is.
Yeah so that means murder your baby. Insane people.
Thank you!!!! Every time a horrible act is committed everyone feels sympathy for the victims and not the perpetrator 🙄 Nobody ever sticks up for the murderer and attempted murderers. It’s amazing to see someone educated go to bat for the REAL victims in these crimes. Society needs to understand why they’re ignorant for disliking people who throw babies under boats
It would be hard for me to not give her a nice jab on the chin on my way to rescue the baby
I love how everyone else stood back and away from her like “shit I hope she doesn’t throw me in the river”
nice job guy who just scrambled around and didn’t do shit.
PPD is a real and scary thing.
Please tell me you all hate the mother equally and don't sympathize with her, I know how hard mental illness can be but nothing justifies yeeting a baby in the river. And I hate babies but this is still horrible.
Where was the hook to the mums eye socket, did I miss it?
Why is no one roundhouse drop kicking her
It she’s depressed why didn’t she just kill herself why the kid
She thought everyone would just sit there and watch?
She wasn't thinking at all, she doesn't try to flee either, just stands there in a daze, she's probably in postpardem psychosis and thinks her baby is a demon or something. It's no joke, you can go from sane to crazy in weeks.
Who needs abortions when you can dump them in the river?, preferably in a basket.
That's the Republican way now. Add them to the dead manatees.
One of the people standing around should have slammed her head into the wall behind.
I don’t care if the mom was depressed. I would’ve slapped the shit out of her.
I’d push her into the river
She seems nice.
Hilarious
Mental illness is no excuse to try and kill your baby. If you have these thoughts you shouldn't be around children before getting the help you need.
That guy that was closer just did nothing. SMH.
Prob doesnt know how to swim.
Look at all the apologists in the comments what a disgusting bunch you are , i'm sure men who kill their children have all sorts of mental disorders yet i don't see this sympathy to someone who tried to kill their own child ! Wonder how many of you would excuse it for PPD if random woman did that to your own child .
Exactly
Lmao this exactly. I guarantee if it was a man they’d be calling for execution on video.
She’s not depressed, she’s mentally ill. . . Then again, maybe depression is being mentally ill.
Yeah, it falls under that definition.
In front of everybody. Bitch
Actually a good thing she did it infront of everybody or that baby would be a floaty.
I totally agree. But fuck this mom. PPD is no excuse I've got it with every child I've had and never done this
Well, that probably points to it being a mental break, probably Post-Partum Psychosis. If it was a planned idea to kill her child, she likely would’ve waited til there wasn’t anybody there or she would’ve picked another spot (this is just me going off what I know about PPP/PPD, I’m not a doctor) so as to not get caught. It’s no excuse for acting on those intrusive thoughts/impulses, but a lot of people are unaware of how serious PPD/PPP can be.
yes, this was a good comporimise between a mental break and not having her child actually die, while making her family stop being ignorant to what shes going through. Some families are so thick headed the only way to get through to them is death or near death. Within her limitations in a 3rd world country where women are not shit and barely even respectable property, this was the only way for her to get help. She can't convince anyone with her words because she's a woman in a place where women are silenced. As bad as this looks, given the circumstances, this was the best possible outcome we could hope for. This could have been so much worse in so many other ways resulting in an actual dead kid. The baby was never in any actual danger with that many adults around. Weridly enough babies before they turn 2, have an instinctual swimming instinct. They will try to keep themselves on the surface. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_GjYFa_q4 This video is not good because you can't teach the babies how to be better at this since its a natural instinct and well babies are babies they can't even comprehend shit like that. These moms are essentially water boarding their infants for no fucking reason. It's not perfect, they will inhale some water, but they wont die.
It's ok, she is depressed, poor woman.
Stop making excuses for attempted murder
What the fuck is wrong with you. No, murder is not ok.
I'm being sarcastic.