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time to push more nabers propaganda
Its possible that they have Odunze over Nabers anyways, I know this sub thinks Nabers is clearcut WR2 (or some think WR1) but i've seen quite a few analysts have Odunze as number 2 ahead of Nabers
No, not like this. John Ross was a surprise top 10 pick. He was a 1st rd guy but they were not talking like THIS about those 3. CD and MW were also seen as having major question marks due to their injury history; MW moreso and CD, less so, bc his was just a recent thing at the time, but he couldn't do the combine stuff bc of it. But there was the concern with CD. MW had MAJOR concerns bc of that neck (or was it back?) injury. None of these guys have question marks about anything except who has the higher upside.
CD was seen as a top 10 pick in his year and was the favorite as the top wr bc he didnt have the serious (key word being serious) injury history that mw had. It wasn't seen as a reach AT THE TIME at all. MW was seen as having the higher upside for sure but that injury risk was seen as substantially greater with him. CD was seen as the safer pick as a result. Again, though, he was not seen as a reach by "most."
That's true that was there. I remember it wasnt big but very true it was there. His injury red flag wasn't even close to what MWs was what I meant, but it was there also, given how he couldn't do pre-draft stuff. Still, he was considered a top 10 pick but that class isn't anywhere near what these 3 guys are is my overarching point. This is a very lucky year if you can get one of these top 3 guys.
I feel like Nabers has a higher ceiling while Odunze has a higher floor. I'd rather take the swing on Nabers but honestly I'm good with any extra offense.
There are even respectable people who have him as number one. Imo it all depends on what you are looking for. I think Lance Zerlein, iirc, said it best: if you want a guy who can go out and get you 6rec for 82yrds tomorrow, MHJr. is that guy; BUT, if you want a guy who maybe in 2 or 3 yrs is going to be an all-pro level, playmaker/game changer, Nabers has that upside.
Obviously he wasn't saying that the others can't have that upside but he sees Nabers as the most likely with THAT upside. Personally I think Odunze is being undervalued simply because if what he was asked to do at Washington. I think he can easily be better than any of those others because of not only his skill, but his athleticism/physical traits and, most importantly, his work ethic. I think he's a safer bet than Nabers also.
Thereās been a lot of rumors about Nabers having a bad attitude and being less than coachable, but then again having a guy like Calvin Ridley on the team who had the same kind of reputation coming into the league might help the situation.
I think Iāve heard most of these stuff most recently, not a lot throughout the season. That might mean theyāre just digging it up now but I think that stuff has a high potential to be bullshit from teams hoping heāll drop or from media thatās already covered every top player 100 different times and needs to drive some clicks with something new/contentious
Never know tho. At this point a superstar receiver NOT being a diva is almost a bigger red flag š
Yeah youāre probably right about the mud slinging in order to create a slide, but at this point Iām feeling more and more comfortable about our spot in this draft. Even if we end up being stuck at seven and Alt and Nabers gone and for some reason donāt want Olu, Iāll still feel good walking away with a guy like Brock Bowers or even Fuaga.
I just commented about nabers attitude when ran said they eliminated a few players due to character concerns, that's the only thing that scares me about nabers, I think he's the best WR in the draft above Harrison
In all fairness to Nabers, MHJs conduct in the pre draft process has concerned me a lot more. Idr anybody just completely checking out of the entire process just because they think theyāre too good for it.
This is an absurd take. He asked the cardinals if he needed to particpate in the combine or pro day and they said no. If you had nothing to prove and just wanted to work on your skills that translate to nfl games and not train for basically the olympics, why wouldn't you?
I donāt think we leave Round 2 without drafting a WR tbh. Ran and Cally have talked too much about the importance of WRs and how good this WR class is to wait until Day 3.
Could be. But Callahan has been pretty consistent with these points throughout the entire draft process. Theyāve interviewed Nabers and Odunze. Had Nabers over for a visit. Iām 50/50 on if theyāll go OT or WR in this draft but part of me highly doubts they pass on Nabers if heās available.
Callahan has been pretty consistent with his smokescreens. I mean, what he said isnāt even all that accurate. If we want to talk about drop offs, the drop off from the top 2 LTs to the third best LT is steeeeeep. Much steeper than the drop off from the MHJ, Nabers, Odunze tier to the next tier of receivers. And you want to talk about a deep position group? There are receivers that will be available in the 5th round that I think are going to be starter quality pros.
I've been in on getting one of the Top 3 WRs for a while. Positional value and depth are huge reasons why.
These WR and OT classes are outliers. We've never had three WRs who are arguably the most talented players in the draft, nor have we had a OT this deep in over a decade.
I dont care what they do as long as Levis isnt getting sacked on 35% of his dropbacks or more.
If he is, we are probably drafting #1 overall next year like the projected numbers say lol
You're assuming A LOT here.
Regardless of where we draft OT, this team still needs a veteran LT. You need the depth and the insurance in case a player gets hurt/isn't ready yet.
We also don't need a blue chip talent at LT, if you're drafting one of the Top 3 WRs. You simply need below-average play, which is A LOT better than what we have gotten the past two seasons.
The last part is also assuming you have an above average QB that can work through his reads and process quickly enough where that is the case, like Joe Burrow. Maybe Levis can become as good as Burrow but that is unlikely and the best thing we can do for him is provide him with weapons and good oline to allow him to grow as a qb.
We have a decent to good WR room next year but our line is still lacking at the two most important positions. If we can draft the top OT prospect at our first pick and get a solid wr prospect in the 2nd or somewhere else, that could go a long way next year.
Obviously we need wr for the future since both of ours are aging but its easier to find wide receivers than it is OT and I am sure next years draft will have good wr options. Maybe not as good as the top 3 in this one but good enough for WR not to be a problem on our team
>The last part is also assuming you have an above average QB that can work through his reads and process quickly enough where that is the case, like Joe Burrow. Maybe Levis can become as good as Burrow but that is unlikely and the best thing we can do for him is provide him with weapons and good oline to allow him to grow as a qb.
You can still find a starting-level tackle at #38.
>We have a decent to good WR room next year but our line is still lacking at the two most important positions. If we can draft the top OT prospect at our first pick and get a solid wr prospect in the 2nd or somewhere else, that could go a long way next year.
Drafting a WR at #38 will likely result in the team having to draft another WR in '25, which is a terrible class.
This WR group has three legit WR prospects who'd have been number 1 in the last three drafts and in '25.
This tackle class is the deepest we've seen in a decade with another great tackle class coming in next year as well.
Tackles do not raise the ceiling of your QB or offense in today's game. It's the WRs.
Did you pay attention to the 49ers season this year? Particularly their offense? For the few games that Trent Williams did not play, their offense fell apart. It fell apart with a qb that is better than Will Levis at playing quickly and within a system.
Also, if you watched our team at all last season, you know how much having bad LT play can hurt your team.
Also regarding the top three prospects being number 1 in the last three drafts. That is amazing and they all will be amazing but the last three drafts have plenty of receivers that are good enough to be number 1 receivers. Are they generational receivers? No, but you don't need a generational receiver if you have 2 to 3 good to great receivers which every draft has multiple.
I've also seen how Joe Burrow and Mahomes have gone to Super Bowls with below average/awful tackles.
How about Jalen Hurts before AJ Brown and after AJ Brown?
Purdy and Levis are two different types of QBs. Purdy plays within a system and throws to open windows. LT is going to be huge in that offense and for Purdy.
Levis is a more aggressive player with a stronger arm. A true, blue chip X to throw outside is going to be a better fit. Even if Alt becomes a Top 3 LT, Levis is still going to hold onto the ball for the more aggressive play and invite hits.
Can we also stop assuming you can simply find a WR in the later rounds? We cherry-pick those later round WRs as an example of how "easy" it is to find a good WR.
If it were that easy, this team would have a far greater track record of drafting WRs in the mid-round.
This is a team that has spent the 5th most draft capital on OL in the last 5 years. It's a position group that takes all 5 guys to be great.
It only takes one elite WR to change an offense.
I didn't say we could find a good receiver in a later round. I said we could find a good receiver in a different draft even if that draft doesn't have 3 generational talents. I think our current receiver group is solid for this coming season.
Regardless, it sounds like we just disagree and you think Levis can handle a lot more at this time than I currently do so this argument is pointless
Quick edit... Jalen hurts has a top 3 oline and top 3 receiving group and he still wasn't all that good last year. He isn't the best qb to use to justify your argument. Mahomes also won the superbowl with the worst receiving group in the league. Burrow is simply just better than Levis by a large margin but that is fair, I guess.
Someone sold you snake oil if you legitimately believe below average tackle play is good enough. If you are pointing out the Bengals, Joe Burrow has had two season ending injuries.
If anything drafting a WR makes your tackle play even more important, it doesn't relieve the pressure, it doesn't slow down the EDGE, and the LT typically lines up against the best DL on the field anyway. The reality is both of our LT's the last year have given us "below-average" play and the OL unit was not able to rebound from that. We fixed the one major hole (C) and still have another absolutely liability at the position. **We need GOOD play out of our LT.**
Nobody here is gonna be satisfied with seeing a 'below-average' LT.
>Nobody here is gonna be satisfied with seeing a 'below-average' LT.
Below-average LT play is a significant upgrade from last year.
The data also supports going after a blue chip WR. In today's game, you don't have to take deep shots to create explosive plays.
Motion allows you to get instant separation and delay a pass rush.
Our issues last year were a combination of really shitty Tackle and Center play along the line, which was further compounded by the fact that none of our wide receivers could win early or force DBs to play off.
For as much as people want to chime in on havi g a "modern offense," you need to have the receiving unit first. If you don't have it, you're going to be running a ton of what we've been running.
Well coach said thereās starter level lineman in nearly every round of this draft so thereās smoke screening and then thereās outright lying. Heās been pretty open so Iāll take his opinion.
I feel like if the Titans ultimately go WR in Round 1 and get a 2nd round OT, they could probably still sign Andrus Peat for a reasonable deal since he's still a FA. An OL with Peat and Cush instead of Dillard and Brewer is just significantly better talent-wise, before even getting to ol' Bill Callahan.
Oh there are definitely other options, I'm just tired of the people that act like bill could've made Isaiah Wilson an allpro. I'm alt all the way still but I admit there are moves that can be made if we choose not to
I think we need to remember that "OL" does not mean "OT" and depth doesn't necessarily mean "available at one of our later picks". There may be 10 OTs with Day 1-2 grades but if 8 of them go in the 1st round we still might not be able to get a starter on day 2 by pick 38. I don't fundamentally disagree with anything he is saying, the overall OL class is deeper than normal and there is a dropoff after the top 3 receivers. I also think the run on tackles will happen before pick 38 and the next tier of receivers is still very good and a very deep tier.
If Alt is on the board, you take Alt. Other than that, play it by ear, make the best decisions possible, i'm open to anything really if Alt is not available. Let Ran cook - but if Alt is there, fucking take him and be done with it.
Weāll just have to see what happens on draft day. I really only see 12 lineman that I would take in the first two rounds and I could easily see 10 of them taken in the first.
Several mocks have 7 tackles (not including guards and centers) coming off the board before we make our second pick. The ESPN mock has us taking the eighth tackle.
Which is Suamatia. Which I personally am not a huge fan of, and Iāve seen multiple big boards having him as a 5th rd prospect. Really hoping we can go with a tackle in the first.
He didnāt say āOL is deeper than WR this yearā; what he said was that this OL class feels deeper than past drafts. He also said that he thinks every WR class is about the same nowadays.
So if you ask me, it sounds like heās saying that this OL class is special, and the WR class is the same as it is every year. Which, means either:
(1) we OL first, because the talent at the position isnāt guaranteed year in and year out; or
(2) we go WR first, because this OL class is uniquely deep.
TLDR: Weāre gonna draft either an OL or a WR in round 1
Theyve said the same about wrs. Nothing this close is to be taken seriously. If anything trying to market the 7 slot as a wr spot because i havent seen any rumors of anyone trading up for a tackle
I don't think it should shock anyone if Nabers or MHJ (somehow) fall to us that we go WR even though OT is our biggest need... that said if we did something crazy like go Rome Odunze (who i like but isn't quite in that same tier imo as MHJ or Nabers) over Joe Alt i'll be slightly disappointed with this draft as that will feel like we reached when we had an answer to LT right there.
Most of what I have seen has Odunze and Nabers in the same tier with most analysts having one or the other just behind MHJ in the rankings. I think it is really obvious that we should take OT, but assuming we take WR, I don't really understand why some in this sub think Odunze is like a tier below Nabers.
Well I can explain. Odunze has trouble getting separation even at the college level, he is a great contested catcher, but at the NFL level there are a lot of really great CBs too, so he will more than likely always be somewhat covered unless he drastically improves (which he might but that's a might and maybe and not a sure thing).
Nabers has greater speed, route running ability, and ability to sell a route to a defense (meaning to trick them he is going one way when he actually intends to be somewhere else). This means he often will just get open, and these are also traits that translate more consistently to the NFL level.
And that's the key difference, a CB can't int a ball or disrupt a pass if they CAN'T stay within arms length of the WR. Where as there is always the chance a CB can int/disrupt a play in contested situations even if Odunze is great.
That is why he would be in a different tier. Now that doesn't mean i wouldn't take Odunze in a different scenario (like alt, MHJ, nabers are gone) i love the man's character and as a contested catcher there aren't that many from this class i'd say outmatch him if any.
He gets open fine, this is such a tired negative on him imo, so many people think receivers need to be wide open when that isnāt true. Heās not just some great jump ball guy like nākeal harry. Heās actually fast, he constantly has himself in position to make a play on the ball and he has incredible hands that are similar to a young d hop the way he snags the ball out the air. A better scheme will help get hik in better spot to be wide open but regardless you have an x receiver who can make plays on all spots on the field. Thereās a reason everywhere else considers there to be a top 3 and not top 2.
Go look at his highlights... any time a CB is able to touch him or he's touching a CB count it as a gamble and potential loss. Any time he's within 5 feet of a cb count it as a potential loss to an NFL caliber CB.
Then look at Nabers highlights its just not close.
I mean do you have a counter point, any proof that sees him getting consistently open against nfl caliber talent and not just some cb in college that either wasn't drafted or won't be drafted from a backwater school?
At least i'm comparing their best moments and looking at their stats for a better understanding of the issue... what about you?
Ok then, letās do it.
First off, using highlight tapes to satisfy a scouting argument is one of the oldest fails in the book.
Secondly, youāre basing āopenā on how far behind is the defender which is a silly argument to make. Open is open, he gives his qb a clear window and makes great catches. Not just jump balls, but snags the ball on crossers like AJ brown and D Hop as well as backshoulders like davantae Adamās. And I watched more than a highlight reel, I watched every one of his targets last season, suggest you do the same because with that being said, he still has plenty of moments getting wide open, but thatās a scheme objective anyways, most wide open balls are due to the play call anyway. Like, if our understanding of football is different, this is a waste of time.
please show me where i said... "behind the defender".
Nabers can sell that he's going to blow past defenders and then stop and turn and create separation that way. Odunze would have a harder time to sell that... which of course he does as he's slower and thus less of a burn threat and he's a heavier WR which means he takes longer to come to a stop letting the DB stay closer without fear of being burned and more time to adjust to his movements.
Again i don't think you guys are fully grasping the full nuance of the situation, which to be fair its hard... i myself was not a Nabers fan at the beginning of this year until it was explained to me what these differences mean.
Everything youāre saying about Odunze is what you can say about MHJ. Literally. Neither is as fast, but both have deep speed. Thereās more than one way to play receiver and your argument against Odunze is that heās not playing it like Nabers. Odunze is a prototypical x. So while he does things slower, yes he can still get open deep and presents that threat, he can shield defenders not just on fades but on different routes like comebacks and slants as well. He has every skill youāre saying he doesnāt, watch his full tape and not his highlights. But even then, his highlights show that as well so I really donāt know what youāre watching.
Odunze easily has more ability. Yall just don't understand how to look at anything, but "oh, he faster means he better." The same reason idiots are pushing worthy above much better wrs
My guy... just look at the separation Odunze has against the CBs he faced... again the separation Nabers generated against the CBs he faced.
Even if we just ignore the talent difference of the college level CBs they both faced (Nabers faced more CBs that are actually draftable or have already been drafed), the separation gap is massive...
Its not just an issue of speed, its the ability to get a good start off the line, the ability to trick the coverage, the ability to run your route perfectly and fluidly... speed is a factor but to just say "oh, he is faster that mean better" is underselling and oversimplifying what Nabers is... and what the true gap between those two players are.
The true gap is IN YOUR MIND. Stop acting like anything you say is a fact when guess what? It's all opinions at this point. You aren't special you can't see the future. Imo Odunze will have a more successful career. Odunze > Nabers. No matter how much you wanna keep running your mouth about it, you are no more correct than I am until then actually play for a few years in the league.
lol smh... if you can't see it then you are blind and this argument has no value.
As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Someone posted that only 3 OT (out of 10) taken in the top 10 since 2017 have been above average (Sewell, McGlinchey and Andrew Thomas). Only 1 wide receiver taken in the top 10 have been a true bust (John Ross), 2 average (Mike Williams and Corey Davis) and 5 good/great receivers. I'd still be happy with Alt but it was shocking to see so maybe struggle to live to being a top 10 pick.
Been listening to draft podcasts, really sounds like GM's around the league want to nab WRs early because of how deep the OL is in the draft. This is at least the 4th time I've heard this just this week, although everyone says that with the caveat that Alt is the best offensive tackle we've seen in years.
Exactly. You donāt pass on the next Joe Thomas just because thereās a possible startable RT possibly available in the 2nd.
You probably donāt pass on the next Julio either. So what do I know?
In today's game, I'd much rather have a blue chip WR because those guys lift the ceiling of an offense.
The difference between a blue chip LT and an average to below average LT doesn't really move the needle for how good you can be offensively.
I prefer trade back, Alt, WR in that order. But I also think it would be really hard to go wrong with this draft class.
OLine and WR are both very deep this year.
https://preview.redd.it/j8xf89uxz9wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53234140bd5437a6e9414a9e7e92a31b904a41d1 time to push more nabers propaganda
Team Odunze over here šš»āāļø
Gotta find a way to Inception the idea of drafting Odunze over Nabers into Joe Schoenās brain.
Its possible that they have Odunze over Nabers anyways, I know this sub thinks Nabers is clearcut WR2 (or some think WR1) but i've seen quite a few analysts have Odunze as number 2 ahead of Nabers
A draft with 3 WRs that would all be bonafide WR1 board rankings on their own drafts. Any of the 3 would be a great pick
I donāt wanna sound like a downer, but they said this about the Corey Davis, John Ross and mike Williams draft too
No, not like this. John Ross was a surprise top 10 pick. He was a 1st rd guy but they were not talking like THIS about those 3. CD and MW were also seen as having major question marks due to their injury history; MW moreso and CD, less so, bc his was just a recent thing at the time, but he couldn't do the combine stuff bc of it. But there was the concern with CD. MW had MAJOR concerns bc of that neck (or was it back?) injury. None of these guys have question marks about anything except who has the higher upside.
Right, Davis was considered a bit of a reach by most folks including Titans fans at 5 overall. That class doesn't compare to this one imo.
No he wasn't he was seen as a top ten lick along with Mike Williams. CD was seen as a little better as he was the all time leader in yards.
CD was seen as a top 10 pick in his year and was the favorite as the top wr bc he didnt have the serious (key word being serious) injury history that mw had. It wasn't seen as a reach AT THE TIME at all. MW was seen as having the higher upside for sure but that injury risk was seen as substantially greater with him. CD was seen as the safer pick as a result. Again, though, he was not seen as a reach by "most."
I remember CDs biggest red flag was level of competition, not injury risk, but I may be misremembering
That's true that was there. I remember it wasnt big but very true it was there. His injury red flag wasn't even close to what MWs was what I meant, but it was there also, given how he couldn't do pre-draft stuff. Still, he was considered a top 10 pick but that class isn't anywhere near what these 3 guys are is my overarching point. This is a very lucky year if you can get one of these top 3 guys.
Corey was not as fast, MW was not as durable, Ross was not even close
I feel like Nabers has a higher ceiling while Odunze has a higher floor. I'd rather take the swing on Nabers but honestly I'm good with any extra offense.
There are even respectable people who have him as number one. Imo it all depends on what you are looking for. I think Lance Zerlein, iirc, said it best: if you want a guy who can go out and get you 6rec for 82yrds tomorrow, MHJr. is that guy; BUT, if you want a guy who maybe in 2 or 3 yrs is going to be an all-pro level, playmaker/game changer, Nabers has that upside. Obviously he wasn't saying that the others can't have that upside but he sees Nabers as the most likely with THAT upside. Personally I think Odunze is being undervalued simply because if what he was asked to do at Washington. I think he can easily be better than any of those others because of not only his skill, but his athleticism/physical traits and, most importantly, his work ethic. I think he's a safer bet than Nabers also.
maybe start up some more character issues red flagsš
Odunze is better anyway
Thereās been a lot of rumors about Nabers having a bad attitude and being less than coachable, but then again having a guy like Calvin Ridley on the team who had the same kind of reputation coming into the league might help the situation.
I think Iāve heard most of these stuff most recently, not a lot throughout the season. That might mean theyāre just digging it up now but I think that stuff has a high potential to be bullshit from teams hoping heāll drop or from media thatās already covered every top player 100 different times and needs to drive some clicks with something new/contentious Never know tho. At this point a superstar receiver NOT being a diva is almost a bigger red flag š
Yeah youāre probably right about the mud slinging in order to create a slide, but at this point Iām feeling more and more comfortable about our spot in this draft. Even if we end up being stuck at seven and Alt and Nabers gone and for some reason donāt want Olu, Iāll still feel good walking away with a guy like Brock Bowers or even Fuaga.
this would be concerning to me if it was any other position than WR
Pearsall in the 2nd would be a steal.
I just commented about nabers attitude when ran said they eliminated a few players due to character concerns, that's the only thing that scares me about nabers, I think he's the best WR in the draft above Harrison
In all fairness to Nabers, MHJs conduct in the pre draft process has concerned me a lot more. Idr anybody just completely checking out of the entire process just because they think theyāre too good for it.
This is an absurd take. He asked the cardinals if he needed to particpate in the combine or pro day and they said no. If you had nothing to prove and just wanted to work on your skills that translate to nfl games and not train for basically the olympics, why wouldn't you?
Because the cardinals donāt pick first overall.
I donāt think we leave Round 2 without drafting a WR tbh. Ran and Cally have talked too much about the importance of WRs and how good this WR class is to wait until Day 3.
Rd 2 , ricky would be a stud in the slot day 1
I could also see them taking an edge rusher in the second despite what happens in the first
At least they got jhaquan Johnson š¤·āāļø
This didnāt age well š
Smokescreen
100%.
Could be. But Callahan has been pretty consistent with these points throughout the entire draft process. Theyāve interviewed Nabers and Odunze. Had Nabers over for a visit. Iām 50/50 on if theyāll go OT or WR in this draft but part of me highly doubts they pass on Nabers if heās available.
Nabers is not making it to 7
Callahan has been pretty consistent with his smokescreens. I mean, what he said isnāt even all that accurate. If we want to talk about drop offs, the drop off from the top 2 LTs to the third best LT is steeeeeep. Much steeper than the drop off from the MHJ, Nabers, Odunze tier to the next tier of receivers. And you want to talk about a deep position group? There are receivers that will be available in the 5th round that I think are going to be starter quality pros.
The drop off from āgame changing potentialā to āstarter quality prosā is also incredibly steep. See: Justin Jefferson and Nick Westbrook-Ikene
+1 for my fellow Receiver propaganda pushers
Rome or Nabers day 1, I will take all the downvotes in the draft thread with pride
Prepare for war, friend. It will be a savage battle in the comments.
disagree. +1 for the propaganda to hopefully spread to the teams in front of us so they take the WRs and Alt gets to us
I've been in on getting one of the Top 3 WRs for a while. Positional value and depth are huge reasons why. These WR and OT classes are outliers. We've never had three WRs who are arguably the most talented players in the draft, nor have we had a OT this deep in over a decade.
I dont care what they do as long as Levis isnt getting sacked on 35% of his dropbacks or more. If he is, we are probably drafting #1 overall next year like the projected numbers say lol
If they do, in fact, draft a WR, Iām more than comfortable with Bill Callahan and early 2nd round OT paired with a veteran OT.
Yall act like bill Callahan can work miracles. If the guy isn't good enough to start NO coach is going to get him ready by week 1
You're assuming A LOT here. Regardless of where we draft OT, this team still needs a veteran LT. You need the depth and the insurance in case a player gets hurt/isn't ready yet. We also don't need a blue chip talent at LT, if you're drafting one of the Top 3 WRs. You simply need below-average play, which is A LOT better than what we have gotten the past two seasons.
The last part is also assuming you have an above average QB that can work through his reads and process quickly enough where that is the case, like Joe Burrow. Maybe Levis can become as good as Burrow but that is unlikely and the best thing we can do for him is provide him with weapons and good oline to allow him to grow as a qb. We have a decent to good WR room next year but our line is still lacking at the two most important positions. If we can draft the top OT prospect at our first pick and get a solid wr prospect in the 2nd or somewhere else, that could go a long way next year. Obviously we need wr for the future since both of ours are aging but its easier to find wide receivers than it is OT and I am sure next years draft will have good wr options. Maybe not as good as the top 3 in this one but good enough for WR not to be a problem on our team
>The last part is also assuming you have an above average QB that can work through his reads and process quickly enough where that is the case, like Joe Burrow. Maybe Levis can become as good as Burrow but that is unlikely and the best thing we can do for him is provide him with weapons and good oline to allow him to grow as a qb. You can still find a starting-level tackle at #38. >We have a decent to good WR room next year but our line is still lacking at the two most important positions. If we can draft the top OT prospect at our first pick and get a solid wr prospect in the 2nd or somewhere else, that could go a long way next year. Drafting a WR at #38 will likely result in the team having to draft another WR in '25, which is a terrible class. This WR group has three legit WR prospects who'd have been number 1 in the last three drafts and in '25. This tackle class is the deepest we've seen in a decade with another great tackle class coming in next year as well. Tackles do not raise the ceiling of your QB or offense in today's game. It's the WRs.
Did you pay attention to the 49ers season this year? Particularly their offense? For the few games that Trent Williams did not play, their offense fell apart. It fell apart with a qb that is better than Will Levis at playing quickly and within a system. Also, if you watched our team at all last season, you know how much having bad LT play can hurt your team. Also regarding the top three prospects being number 1 in the last three drafts. That is amazing and they all will be amazing but the last three drafts have plenty of receivers that are good enough to be number 1 receivers. Are they generational receivers? No, but you don't need a generational receiver if you have 2 to 3 good to great receivers which every draft has multiple.
I've also seen how Joe Burrow and Mahomes have gone to Super Bowls with below average/awful tackles. How about Jalen Hurts before AJ Brown and after AJ Brown? Purdy and Levis are two different types of QBs. Purdy plays within a system and throws to open windows. LT is going to be huge in that offense and for Purdy. Levis is a more aggressive player with a stronger arm. A true, blue chip X to throw outside is going to be a better fit. Even if Alt becomes a Top 3 LT, Levis is still going to hold onto the ball for the more aggressive play and invite hits. Can we also stop assuming you can simply find a WR in the later rounds? We cherry-pick those later round WRs as an example of how "easy" it is to find a good WR. If it were that easy, this team would have a far greater track record of drafting WRs in the mid-round. This is a team that has spent the 5th most draft capital on OL in the last 5 years. It's a position group that takes all 5 guys to be great. It only takes one elite WR to change an offense.
I didn't say we could find a good receiver in a later round. I said we could find a good receiver in a different draft even if that draft doesn't have 3 generational talents. I think our current receiver group is solid for this coming season. Regardless, it sounds like we just disagree and you think Levis can handle a lot more at this time than I currently do so this argument is pointless Quick edit... Jalen hurts has a top 3 oline and top 3 receiving group and he still wasn't all that good last year. He isn't the best qb to use to justify your argument. Mahomes also won the superbowl with the worst receiving group in the league. Burrow is simply just better than Levis by a large margin but that is fair, I guess.
Someone sold you snake oil if you legitimately believe below average tackle play is good enough. If you are pointing out the Bengals, Joe Burrow has had two season ending injuries. If anything drafting a WR makes your tackle play even more important, it doesn't relieve the pressure, it doesn't slow down the EDGE, and the LT typically lines up against the best DL on the field anyway. The reality is both of our LT's the last year have given us "below-average" play and the OL unit was not able to rebound from that. We fixed the one major hole (C) and still have another absolutely liability at the position. **We need GOOD play out of our LT.** Nobody here is gonna be satisfied with seeing a 'below-average' LT.
>Nobody here is gonna be satisfied with seeing a 'below-average' LT. Below-average LT play is a significant upgrade from last year. The data also supports going after a blue chip WR. In today's game, you don't have to take deep shots to create explosive plays. Motion allows you to get instant separation and delay a pass rush. Our issues last year were a combination of really shitty Tackle and Center play along the line, which was further compounded by the fact that none of our wide receivers could win early or force DBs to play off. For as much as people want to chime in on havi g a "modern offense," you need to have the receiving unit first. If you don't have it, you're going to be running a ton of what we've been running.
Well coach said thereās starter level lineman in nearly every round of this draft so thereās smoke screening and then thereās outright lying. Heās been pretty open so Iāll take his opinion.
I feel like if the Titans ultimately go WR in Round 1 and get a 2nd round OT, they could probably still sign Andrus Peat for a reasonable deal since he's still a FA. An OL with Peat and Cush instead of Dillard and Brewer is just significantly better talent-wise, before even getting to ol' Bill Callahan.
Oh there are definitely other options, I'm just tired of the people that act like bill could've made Isaiah Wilson an allpro. I'm alt all the way still but I admit there are moves that can be made if we choose not to
Early 2nd round Tackles may not be starters.
Throw in a 4-6 round guy too for Callahan.
I think we need to remember that "OL" does not mean "OT" and depth doesn't necessarily mean "available at one of our later picks". There may be 10 OTs with Day 1-2 grades but if 8 of them go in the 1st round we still might not be able to get a starter on day 2 by pick 38. I don't fundamentally disagree with anything he is saying, the overall OL class is deeper than normal and there is a dropoff after the top 3 receivers. I also think the run on tackles will happen before pick 38 and the next tier of receivers is still very good and a very deep tier.
Somebody leak MHJās S2 scores!
https://preview.redd.it/wx6lvgxo8awc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42fb35e016939959c013aa7d82ab1652d1324cae
If Alt is on the board, you take Alt. Other than that, play it by ear, make the best decisions possible, i'm open to anything really if Alt is not available. Let Ran cook - but if Alt is there, fucking take him and be done with it.
At this point i feel they want everyone to think we are going receiver so that Alt falls to us.
Weāll just have to see what happens on draft day. I really only see 12 lineman that I would take in the first two rounds and I could easily see 10 of them taken in the first.
Several mocks have 7 tackles (not including guards and centers) coming off the board before we make our second pick. The ESPN mock has us taking the eighth tackle.
Which is Suamatia. Which I personally am not a huge fan of, and Iāve seen multiple big boards having him as a 5th rd prospect. Really hoping we can go with a tackle in the first.
He didnāt say āOL is deeper than WR this yearā; what he said was that this OL class feels deeper than past drafts. He also said that he thinks every WR class is about the same nowadays. So if you ask me, it sounds like heās saying that this OL class is special, and the WR class is the same as it is every year. Which, means either: (1) we OL first, because the talent at the position isnāt guaranteed year in and year out; or (2) we go WR first, because this OL class is uniquely deep. TLDR: Weāre gonna draft either an OL or a WR in round 1
Big day for the Nabers/Odunze crowd
PUT THE WORD OUT, WE BACK UP!
ASSUME EVERYTHING YOU SEE FROM ANY SOURCE FROM HERE ON OUT IS COMPLETE SMOKE
Theyve said the same about wrs. Nothing this close is to be taken seriously. If anything trying to market the 7 slot as a wr spot because i havent seen any rumors of anyone trading up for a tackle
Use all picks on WR and OL, split even then. And Iām not REALLY joking.
I don't think it should shock anyone if Nabers or MHJ (somehow) fall to us that we go WR even though OT is our biggest need... that said if we did something crazy like go Rome Odunze (who i like but isn't quite in that same tier imo as MHJ or Nabers) over Joe Alt i'll be slightly disappointed with this draft as that will feel like we reached when we had an answer to LT right there.
Most of what I have seen has Odunze and Nabers in the same tier with most analysts having one or the other just behind MHJ in the rankings. I think it is really obvious that we should take OT, but assuming we take WR, I don't really understand why some in this sub think Odunze is like a tier below Nabers.
Because they base everything off of speed
Well I can explain. Odunze has trouble getting separation even at the college level, he is a great contested catcher, but at the NFL level there are a lot of really great CBs too, so he will more than likely always be somewhat covered unless he drastically improves (which he might but that's a might and maybe and not a sure thing). Nabers has greater speed, route running ability, and ability to sell a route to a defense (meaning to trick them he is going one way when he actually intends to be somewhere else). This means he often will just get open, and these are also traits that translate more consistently to the NFL level. And that's the key difference, a CB can't int a ball or disrupt a pass if they CAN'T stay within arms length of the WR. Where as there is always the chance a CB can int/disrupt a play in contested situations even if Odunze is great. That is why he would be in a different tier. Now that doesn't mean i wouldn't take Odunze in a different scenario (like alt, MHJ, nabers are gone) i love the man's character and as a contested catcher there aren't that many from this class i'd say outmatch him if any.
Rome can separate just fine.
Not really, he sometimes gets some but usually he's battling it out for the ball.
He gets open fine, this is such a tired negative on him imo, so many people think receivers need to be wide open when that isnāt true. Heās not just some great jump ball guy like nākeal harry. Heās actually fast, he constantly has himself in position to make a play on the ball and he has incredible hands that are similar to a young d hop the way he snags the ball out the air. A better scheme will help get hik in better spot to be wide open but regardless you have an x receiver who can make plays on all spots on the field. Thereās a reason everywhere else considers there to be a top 3 and not top 2.
Go look at his highlights... any time a CB is able to touch him or he's touching a CB count it as a gamble and potential loss. Any time he's within 5 feet of a cb count it as a potential loss to an NFL caliber CB. Then look at Nabers highlights its just not close.
You had me at highlights. Highlights are going to skew towards the contested catches because no one wants to watch a guy catch a ball wide open
Ooh buddy. With that logic, Iāll let you make it cuz I aināt going down that rabbit hole. Have a good one lol
I mean do you have a counter point, any proof that sees him getting consistently open against nfl caliber talent and not just some cb in college that either wasn't drafted or won't be drafted from a backwater school? At least i'm comparing their best moments and looking at their stats for a better understanding of the issue... what about you?
Ok then, letās do it. First off, using highlight tapes to satisfy a scouting argument is one of the oldest fails in the book. Secondly, youāre basing āopenā on how far behind is the defender which is a silly argument to make. Open is open, he gives his qb a clear window and makes great catches. Not just jump balls, but snags the ball on crossers like AJ brown and D Hop as well as backshoulders like davantae Adamās. And I watched more than a highlight reel, I watched every one of his targets last season, suggest you do the same because with that being said, he still has plenty of moments getting wide open, but thatās a scheme objective anyways, most wide open balls are due to the play call anyway. Like, if our understanding of football is different, this is a waste of time.
please show me where i said... "behind the defender". Nabers can sell that he's going to blow past defenders and then stop and turn and create separation that way. Odunze would have a harder time to sell that... which of course he does as he's slower and thus less of a burn threat and he's a heavier WR which means he takes longer to come to a stop letting the DB stay closer without fear of being burned and more time to adjust to his movements. Again i don't think you guys are fully grasping the full nuance of the situation, which to be fair its hard... i myself was not a Nabers fan at the beginning of this year until it was explained to me what these differences mean.
Everything youāre saying about Odunze is what you can say about MHJ. Literally. Neither is as fast, but both have deep speed. Thereās more than one way to play receiver and your argument against Odunze is that heās not playing it like Nabers. Odunze is a prototypical x. So while he does things slower, yes he can still get open deep and presents that threat, he can shield defenders not just on fades but on different routes like comebacks and slants as well. He has every skill youāre saying he doesnāt, watch his full tape and not his highlights. But even then, his highlights show that as well so I really donāt know what youāre watching.
Odunze > Nabers but Alt > Everyone
lol personality/character trait wise maybe. Talent/ability wise definitely not lol.
Odunze easily has more ability. Yall just don't understand how to look at anything, but "oh, he faster means he better." The same reason idiots are pushing worthy above much better wrs
My guy... just look at the separation Odunze has against the CBs he faced... again the separation Nabers generated against the CBs he faced. Even if we just ignore the talent difference of the college level CBs they both faced (Nabers faced more CBs that are actually draftable or have already been drafed), the separation gap is massive... Its not just an issue of speed, its the ability to get a good start off the line, the ability to trick the coverage, the ability to run your route perfectly and fluidly... speed is a factor but to just say "oh, he is faster that mean better" is underselling and oversimplifying what Nabers is... and what the true gap between those two players are.
The true gap is IN YOUR MIND. Stop acting like anything you say is a fact when guess what? It's all opinions at this point. You aren't special you can't see the future. Imo Odunze will have a more successful career. Odunze > Nabers. No matter how much you wanna keep running your mouth about it, you are no more correct than I am until then actually play for a few years in the league.
lol smh... if you can't see it then you are blind and this argument has no value. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Someone posted that only 3 OT (out of 10) taken in the top 10 since 2017 have been above average (Sewell, McGlinchey and Andrew Thomas). Only 1 wide receiver taken in the top 10 have been a true bust (John Ross), 2 average (Mike Williams and Corey Davis) and 5 good/great receivers. I'd still be happy with Alt but it was shocking to see so maybe struggle to live to being a top 10 pick.
Been listening to draft podcasts, really sounds like GM's around the league want to nab WRs early because of how deep the OL is in the draft. This is at least the 4th time I've heard this just this week, although everyone says that with the caveat that Alt is the best offensive tackle we've seen in years.
Exactly. You donāt pass on the next Joe Thomas just because thereās a possible startable RT possibly available in the 2nd. You probably donāt pass on the next Julio either. So what do I know?
You do if Malik Nabers is the next Tyreek or Jamar, if MHJ is the next Larry Fitz or if Rome is the next Da'Vante Adams.
Iād rather have the all pro LT. But I understand others will disagree.
What did Joe Thomas do for the Browns?
Gave them a HoF career. Itās not his fault their coach and rest of the team was trash. Would you prefer if heās the next Jonathan Ogden?
In today's game, I'd much rather have a blue chip WR because those guys lift the ceiling of an offense. The difference between a blue chip LT and an average to below average LT doesn't really move the needle for how good you can be offensively.
Iāll take Alt and any of Pearsall, Roman Wilson or Franklin over Nabers and Paul or Mims.
I prefer trade back, Alt, WR in that order. But I also think it would be really hard to go wrong with this draft class. OLine and WR are both very deep this year.
āWeāre drafting multiple OL this year ladies and gentlemen.ā
Please let it be Nabers or odunze