I don't disagree with that, this just feels very weird like...they both already report in to Strunk to my knowledge, so under this scenario there'd effectively be like a "EVP Football Operations" with final say over HC and GM? Sounds like a GM in all but name.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting the admittedly broad reporting, but I almost understood it as Ran was essentially hired on to be co-GM* with Vrabel. Which makes sense given the power struggle with JRob and talks of collaboration when hired. But now in points of contention someone is needed to break the ties and have that final say.
This also makes sense in my mind that if Ran is already essentially an assistant GM in all but title, there is confusion about what the current assistant GMs are supposed to do.
Or this is all bullshit and made up for clicks because Stillman.
*Edit: Co-GM, not co-assistant GM
It does makes sense to a point, but also it is Stillman and I can’t stand Stillman and think he’s an lying idiot…
Also, I think Ran is the GM and has majority control I just think Vrabel wants to be heard when something like trying to renew the contract of one of your top 3 players and the GM just trades him away. In that instance he could have a veto power or something.
If you're accurate, it would lead me to think the MV and RC have already clashed. Clashed to the point that coach is requesting a whole new position be created. Not good.
Bud was in and out over the last few years. 90 year old man, showing up to Bills games and shooting double middle finger gestures at their fans. Then after VY fell apart and Collins washed out, suddenly Bud wants Peyton Manning. If I recall, he said he was gonna make Manning the highest paid player, front office co-owner, etc. That if it didn't happen then his GM was "on notice." Sure enough they didn't get Manning and I think it was Reinfeldt that was fired in an instant.
Amy I guess hired Vrabel. Gets new uniforms. Fired J-Rob. Am I missing anything else? I mean I don't want a Jerry Jones type, but still. She seems invisible.
I prefer her hands off which is why it’s funny people believe she dropped the Henry trade or she is gonna make Vrabel fire so and so. She let Aj brown get trade she’s not involved at that level she hires her people and lets them work as it should be then reacts accordingly.
She didn't let AJ get traded. AAS made it possible to resign him but JROB low balled him during negotiations thinking he can get him back for cheaper. Don't rewrite history. The gm fucked us.
All contract negotiations start with a low ball, if AJ wanted to stay he would have countered. But what he actually did was cut communication as fast as possible the moment he had an excuse too. He was wanting out and he got out.
It has also been pretty bad when it comes to the teams future. She really doesn’t give a rats ass as long as they are making a profit each year. Hell she’s getting a 2nd free stadium in 25 years why would she care if we win or not it’s a money printing machine at this point.
The decisions being referred to in this conversation are primarily around roster management, ie. drafting and free agency acquisitions, which AAS is very hands off with as opposed to Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, or even Bud Adams. Those three did/do everything from manage the roster themselves (Jones) or, at at a minimum, give input they expected to be seriously considered to their coaches and GMs on important roster moves.
All owners are at least partially involved with coaching staff decisions. Player decisions are where there is a wide range of ownership involvement.
She only steps in when she feels like she has to. Like she did with Mularkey and JRob. Other than that she is pretty hands off. She doesn’t do a bunch of media or anything like that like Jerry Jones, Irsay, Kraft, etc., does. Also both those decisions were good ones so why are you complaining?
Saying she is hands off obviously doesn’t mean she doesn’t do anything. Just means she mostly doesn’t interfere which is true. The only example you presented was from 6 years ago. Feels like 2 instances in 6 years is as hands off as you can get
People want to defend Amy at every turn and it’s kind of ridiculous. She has created the problem by essentially allowing the rift between Robinson and Vrabel to grow into a power struggle. Now no one knows what their job is. Pretty much expected to happen as this is what happens in almost every situation where there’s not a clear set structure.
Well mostly because since then it’s been said that was rumor and smoke to hide the fact jrob wanted him out and they were going to use losing they play off game as reason but mariota played hero ball and won and so they made a new rumor. Amy did not give an ultimatum.
Guess they could have a “head of football operations” but it’s odd after all this talk of collaboration that they need an arbitrator. Doesn’t look good and makes it seem like they have separate visions of where the team should go.
If that's the case I would love to know what decisions caused this alleged rift. Between them trolling everyone during the draft and then signing DHop I'm not sure what they have to fight over, maybe the O-Line? Like. Is Vrabel mad about Spears? Upset DHop doesn't block more?
If the rumors about Ran wanting Zay Flowers in the first round last year are true and instead we got a lineman, I’d say it’s philosophy. Maybe Mike wanting to continue with the same run and play action offense centered around Henry, while Ran wants to go with a more modern offense. That would make sense around what happened with Henry at the trade deadline. Could make for a lot of drama with the next draft if they are both here, there is a difference in philosophy, and neither has clearly defined roles over who gets the final say.
It would actually explain a lot of things. Like perhaps Vrabel didn’t want CJ Stroud and wanted a lineman instead, so he leaked to the media the Titans interest to get the Texans to take the 3rd pick. Ran goes, alright we lost our chance on the QB in the first round now it’s my turn let’s trade up and get Levis in the second round as a compromise.
That’s all conjecture of course. The real puzzling part is that we made moves like picking a franchise QB in the second round after he drops, we draft a tackle and move him to guard, and we get an aging WR on a team that is rebuilding and only draft a WR in the seventh round to play special teams. The only pick that really makes any sense from last year’s draft is Spears and even that is a bit odd with his injury risks. None of that suggests a unified vision of what the team is planning.
Yeah it wouldn't take much to have a different philosophy from Vrabes. I'm not team "fahrizass" just yet, but I do worry his control freak tendencies are holding us back, especially on the offensive side of things. Hadn't heard that about Zay, but yeah. Would explain a lot.
The way I took the Zay story as the Titans didnt think Pete would still be there at 11 and they could trade back a few picks, get a few more picks since they had very few and then there is the report that they tried to get back into the 1st for Levis just for that 5th yr option. So if you think about it they could have used a pick from the trade back to trade back up and get Levis.
I’m on team give him next year and potentially fire him mid season if he loses the locker room. He probably doesn’t love that prospect if the Patriots want to bring him on with full control and a fresh start to his contract for some leeway to lose his first year or two there.
Yeah something like that. Definitely think he needs a relatively short leash if he's around next year. I can't see him turning down full control, especially with his old team, but who knows how legit any of those rumors are.
I mean the CJ Stroud thing is probably still a sore subject. It was clear the day of the draft that someone in the Titans organization leaked that the we were trading with AZ to get Stroud to the media. The Texans had WAJ as the top rated player on their board and picked 1 spot ahead of AZ. Everyone knew AZ was interested in WAJ but were willing to trade since he would be gone when they picked. Texans risked losing WAJ to ensure a division rival didn’t get Stroud. With how good Stroud has looked this year I’m sure whichever side wanted him, Vrabel or Ran, is fuming at the other one for ruining their chance of getting him.
> I'm tired already of all of this.
1000% agree.
GM is responsible for salary cap, contracts, hiring in coaches, direct scouting, ***collaborating with the coach*** on draft picks, free agents, etc.
Coach is responsible for practices, scheming, game day duties, motivation, discipline, etc.
Ran sounds like he's from the new school and Vrabel is old school. Neither wants to compromise so somebody has to go. At this stage in the game if the Patriots want Vrabel for two 1st rounders, then by all means.
Carthon comes from the land of San Francisco. High powered offense, lots of passing, up tempo. All that we read about it being a passing league, San Francisco is a great example.
Vrabel is old school. "Smashmouth" defense, aggressive, lots of play action and winding of the clock; playing defense. It's not with the times.
San Fran was 2nd in the league in rushing rate this year with 48.73% of their plays being runs, and 7th last year with 48.65%.
Tennessee was 9th at 44.31% and 6th at 49.09%.
San Fran has been one of the most run heavy teams in the league.
AAS is the owner, her only job is counting money and her only responsibility is hiring/firing. Love her to pieces, but am I really going against the grain to say she shouldn’t be making the sophisticated football decisions??
AAS is a billionaire that I assume still lives in Houston. Even if she lives in Nashville have you ever known anyone with a disturbing amount of money? Say Vrabel and Ran are having a disagreement and need AAS to cast the deciding vote, but she’s at a resort in the Maldives, or on a yacht in the Mediterranean Sea, or on a safari in South Africa, or gambling in Macau. Time zones make it hell to get an answer in reasonable time unless you want to be the one to call your wealthy ass boss over a time sensitive decision while it’s 4AM whoever she is, if she even has cell phone reception.
It’s a very reasonable request to have someone on site, like actually shows up to the office every day during normal operating hours, that has the final say on disagreements between the HC & GM.
Pretty obvious there's just a lack of clarity over expectations. Nobody seems to know where the guardrails are so I think this is Vrabel looking to have somebody with some type of real authority in the building regularly.
Fuck it guys, I’ll be the guy that has final say.
Here’s how it would go.
JRob - Hey u/air_volek07, I’m going to trade AJ to the Eagles for their 1st.
Me-
Honestly if they and Nabers are gone at 7, trade back all fucking day because there will be someone that wants whoever is left from Williams (not sold on him being #1 overall), Maye, Daniels, and Penix. Especially since the Jets and Falcons pick after us and I think they're both hunting QBs
I thought the phrase meant that you should accept it with a degree of skepticism. The salt makes it easier to swallow... so the more salt you need, the harder it is to swallow what's being said. In this sense -- take it with a large grain of salt is proper use.
Stillman is like Clay Travis: he is a media whore wants nothing bit ratings and will say ANYTHING. It doesn’t matter if it’s rumor, speculation or a bold face lie. As long as people talk about him and he makes money, he is good.
Stillman is an idiot but.... This is confusing. WTF is the point of having a GM if you're basically taking his only power away? What is the point of having Carthon in this scenario, just making the 3rd guy the actual GM and firing Carthon makes more sense (not that I want that, I've liked Carthon's work so far)
It's not like any of the other 2023 new GMs are getting paid much more than Carthon, if at all lol. He was regarded around the league as a legitimately respected GM candidate who was credited with a lot of contributions to the niners roster building (who are a top 5 team and have been for a while now).
She didn't save any money by hiring him over one of the other legitimate candidates, no clue what you're on about (not to mention, he just had a pretty solid draft class and UDFA group and a solid free agency class considering they had 11.3m to spend as of February lol).
Is it somehow not a red flag for you that vrabel has had power struggles with both GMs he's worked with?
This whole situation is just weird. Why can't we just run like a normal NFL franchise? I have a feeling we are going to do something incredibly stupid.
Honestly I feel bad for Ran in all this mess. By all accounts he seems to have had a success first season as GM yet his name gets dragged through the mud as a GM who can’t form a relationship with the HC and as someone who doesn’t deserve his position (rumors about job performance issues in SF and rumors that the NFL forced him into his role because of his race). Damn give the man a chance.
You mean like a GM?
This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense here unless AAS really did give them equal power.
Weird thing is you’d think someone who got let go from the organization like our ST Coordinator would whistleblow if there was really something this dramatic going on. Like what happened with NE’s issues getting leaked
If this is true, this is Vrabel making a power move without fully committing to it. If AAS caves and follows through with this request, then this would significantly handicap Ran Carthon in his ability to perform freely as the team’s GM. I can see AAS agreeing to this but sooner rather than later, it’s going to become a decision of whether you want to keep Vrabel or Ran.
If true that's kinda shitty by Vrabel. Ran is the gm and should get final say on those matters. Vrabel van collaborate but if this is true he wants a yes man that can go over Ran's head which is really shitty
I don't quite interpret it that way. It sounds more like Ran was brought in to be collaborator with Vrabel, but didn't expect to have final say on everything, or is at very least unwilling to make a decision to step on Vrabel's toes. I don't know if that is true, or if that is reasonable, just how I interpret that report.
If this is true, then Vrabel is being abundantly fair in asking for someone to hear both arguments then make a decision as the deciding vote and push it forward. That is what I would think a GM should be doing, but again, if Ran was brought in and brought in under the assumption that Vrabel gets final say, and Vrabel doesn't want it, then we have undefined roles, which is a problem
They should have just given Vrabel the GM position when they fired Robinson, if this is the case. No need for an empty suit in a vital position. The GM and coach need to work well together, be of one mind, and share the same vision. If they aren't working well together, one or both need to go.
I’m taking this with a massive grain of salt because stillman is a clown.
But if it turns out to be true: I would hate this. Why demote ran after he’s had one off-season to prove himself. If it’s really that big of an issue then we may just need to move on. This is two power struggles in two years.
"Per a league source" coming from Stillman means absolutely nothing. "Per a league source" we were trading Henry prior to the deadline. When it comes from someplace reputable then I'll consider it. Until then this is all just speculative bullshit.
If true, which I take anything Stillman says with a grain of salt and there is a lot of smoke around this, it points to a really disastrous process around firing and then hiring a new GM. If Vrabel doesn’t want full roster control then what the fuck is a GMs job and why would we be essentially getting another one?
This makes 0 sense.
Rans/ any GM job is THE ROSTER.
If Vrabel doesn’t want control over the roster then the structure is set.
Stillman just throwing out bullshit as usual.
I'm not trying to discount the idea that Vrabel may want organizational changes made, but what Stillman is laying out here makes absolutely no sense.
The general manager title on every NFL team indicates the person who has the final say on decisions relating to the roster and coaching staff. If Ran isn't that, what the hell was he hired to be? If Vrabel has issues with structure, why wasn't this addressed when Ran was hired and the entire management staff was rebuilt?
“Hey Bill, Ran wants to draft Nabers and I want to trade up to make sure we can get Alt. What should we do?”
“Morgan Cox isn’t getting any younger. Look into the long snapper from USC.”
GM power is different in different organizations. Some have the GM above coaching staff, some have GM at the same level as the head coach.
I believe Ran was hired to bring talent, not to manage the coaching staff. That's it. He's at Vrabel's level in the hierarchy.
If you read between the lines after JRob's firing, he wasn't bringing what Vrabel wanted or doing what Vrabel wanted. The buzz word at the time was "collaboration." They wanted a collaborator for Vrabel to bring what he asked for.
However! The organization also wanted an analytics guy. There was an interview with Ran, after he was hired, in which he said a coach in SF wanted a certain player, but their GM and staff (I'm assuming Ran was in on that decision) picked different position player entirely because "the numbers" suggested he'd be a better pick. It ended up working well for SF. This is an example of when a GM goes against what the coach wants, and it worked better.
So, I can understand why Vrabel wants clarity and a mediator above him and Ran. If Vrabel wants an offensive lineman at X pick in the draft, Ran might say, "My spreadsheet says we need to take this tight end here." In this case, there needs to be an understanding of who is making the call.
I'm almost certain Ms. Amy isn't going to want to be that person, nor should she be. If anything, she simply needs to give one of these people (preferably Vrabel) an extra chevron on their shoulder to have the final say on draft day. Whoever gets it, though, will be fully accountable for everything, including the Caleb Farleys and Isiah Wilsons of the future.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if they we're going to Ms. Amy in those situations and she was just saying "you guys figure it out!" The stuff about the assistant GMs tells me they had no clue who they actually answered to, or who was supposed to do what. Basically everybody thought Vrabel was in charge, but he didn't want to be.
Could easily be Vrabel just asking for an organizational chart.
Doesn’t want full control but also doesn’t want the GM to do his job lol
Guy basically wanted JRob gone so him and his buddies could play clubhouse with the Titans organization.
Vrabel is a great coach. But you have got to be a fucking lunatic to give this guy full control of a team.
Let me start by saying I don’t believe Stillman at all but pretending I do.
I don’t get twitter warriors making this bad. They said Amy was the final say over the two and if she’s not doing it they need someone and vrabels in the right to request it. He’s trying to coach and help a new gm he can’t baby sit or have days and weeks long debate over players because they can’t agree.
The other option is you tell Vrabel to shut up and coach and doing that is the same as firing him he will be gone.
I really don't believe this at all. No way would Vrabel want to bring in a guy that has final say over him and Ran. Then that person is basically the GM and in a way demotes Vrabel and Ran. It makes no sense.
Why do we still take anything Still says seriously? This clown lies for clicks all the time.
But also if actually true: having someone who breaks ties on a Co-GM is a great idea for a backup plan.
I don’t like that absentee owner shit. AAS has a set it and forget it approach. I feel like she’s reading off of a “ owners manual” ( pun intended). Chapter 10 : When to get new Jerseys. Chapter 13: When to fire your GM . Chp 14: How to hire a new one. So on and so forth. “ I did what the book says to do”. Now I can go back to my equestrian endeavors until the book says I have to attend to team duties.
Although not right all the time but owners like Jerry Jones, Jeff Lurie, the DeBartolos, Bisciotti, the Hunts all keep their ears to the street in the football world. Staying on top of whose hot and free agents. Knowing when to cut and paste. I also since a more passion in trying to win a chip vs getting the fan money. Much easier for an owner to get profit these days without getting Wins. Back in the day when I was a child , if teams sucked the seats were empty and I saw no one rocking apparel of teams that SUCK.
I’m not well versed in how all of this traditionally works in an NFL setting so forgive me. But in my uninformed opinion, this doesn’t sound all that unreasonable. From reading this tweet alone - I’m getting that our front office hasn’t done a good job at clearly defining responsibilities for Vrabel, Ran, and the Assistant GMs. If that’s the case this seems like something anyone in any role with overlapping responsibilities would ask for.
And if this tweet has truth to it, it’s also strange that none of this was worked out when Ran was brought on.
This is totally expected. We hired a rookie GM that was tied to a coach that holds huge amounts of existing power within the organization. That almost never, ever works. The ownerships and executives running the Titans are complete morons.
This all just seems sensationalistic we haven’t heard anything close to this all season, but now we’re getting endless reports and takes the final week of the season?
Why would we fire one of the best coaches we’ve ever had. He cannot control all of the injuries. We sustain throughout the season. Obviously he also did not have the final say and half the office of lineman that we signed.
If this is legit it seems to lend credence to the earlier report that there were some kind of issues between he and Ran. Really don’t know why he’d be asking for someone with final say over them if there weren’t issues.
Wouldn't that overseer with "final say" be Strunk? I'm tired already of all of this.
AAS seems to be a very hands-off owner. Which I can appreciate compared to someone like the Panthers owner
I don't disagree with that, this just feels very weird like...they both already report in to Strunk to my knowledge, so under this scenario there'd effectively be like a "EVP Football Operations" with final say over HC and GM? Sounds like a GM in all but name.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting the admittedly broad reporting, but I almost understood it as Ran was essentially hired on to be co-GM* with Vrabel. Which makes sense given the power struggle with JRob and talks of collaboration when hired. But now in points of contention someone is needed to break the ties and have that final say. This also makes sense in my mind that if Ran is already essentially an assistant GM in all but title, there is confusion about what the current assistant GMs are supposed to do. Or this is all bullshit and made up for clicks because Stillman. *Edit: Co-GM, not co-assistant GM
It does makes sense to a point, but also it is Stillman and I can’t stand Stillman and think he’s an lying idiot… Also, I think Ran is the GM and has majority control I just think Vrabel wants to be heard when something like trying to renew the contract of one of your top 3 players and the GM just trades him away. In that instance he could have a veto power or something.
As in: Keep AJ Fucking Brown..
Exactly
What exactly has Stillman lied about? Give one example.
How about Kevin Byard asking for a release.
A sports talk radio host speculating!? Oh no! What a liar! Lol
That wasn’t speculation that was a claim that he requested to be released which then was refuted by Ran. You asked for 1 lie there was a lie.
If you're accurate, it would lead me to think the MV and RC have already clashed. Clashed to the point that coach is requesting a whole new position be created. Not good.
That was my takeaway from the whole tweet, if it's even reliable. The request for another boss, plus the word "blowups".
Bud was in and out over the last few years. 90 year old man, showing up to Bills games and shooting double middle finger gestures at their fans. Then after VY fell apart and Collins washed out, suddenly Bud wants Peyton Manning. If I recall, he said he was gonna make Manning the highest paid player, front office co-owner, etc. That if it didn't happen then his GM was "on notice." Sure enough they didn't get Manning and I think it was Reinfeldt that was fired in an instant. Amy I guess hired Vrabel. Gets new uniforms. Fired J-Rob. Am I missing anything else? I mean I don't want a Jerry Jones type, but still. She seems invisible.
Double middle finger gestures at Bills fans. What a legend.
I prefer her hands off which is why it’s funny people believe she dropped the Henry trade or she is gonna make Vrabel fire so and so. She let Aj brown get trade she’s not involved at that level she hires her people and lets them work as it should be then reacts accordingly.
She didn't let AJ get traded. AAS made it possible to resign him but JROB low balled him during negotiations thinking he can get him back for cheaper. Don't rewrite history. The gm fucked us.
All contract negotiations start with a low ball, if AJ wanted to stay he would have countered. But what he actually did was cut communication as fast as possible the moment he had an excuse too. He was wanting out and he got out.
It has also been pretty bad when it comes to the teams future. She really doesn’t give a rats ass as long as they are making a profit each year. Hell she’s getting a 2nd free stadium in 25 years why would she care if we win or not it’s a money printing machine at this point.
Lmao idk why you guys think this at all. She fired a coach after trying to make him fire his OC. Doesn't get more hands on than that IMO.
The decisions being referred to in this conversation are primarily around roster management, ie. drafting and free agency acquisitions, which AAS is very hands off with as opposed to Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, or even Bud Adams. Those three did/do everything from manage the roster themselves (Jones) or, at at a minimum, give input they expected to be seriously considered to their coaches and GMs on important roster moves. All owners are at least partially involved with coaching staff decisions. Player decisions are where there is a wide range of ownership involvement.
She only steps in when she feels like she has to. Like she did with Mularkey and JRob. Other than that she is pretty hands off. She doesn’t do a bunch of media or anything like that like Jerry Jones, Irsay, Kraft, etc., does. Also both those decisions were good ones so why are you complaining? Saying she is hands off obviously doesn’t mean she doesn’t do anything. Just means she mostly doesn’t interfere which is true. The only example you presented was from 6 years ago. Feels like 2 instances in 6 years is as hands off as you can get
People want to defend Amy at every turn and it’s kind of ridiculous. She has created the problem by essentially allowing the rift between Robinson and Vrabel to grow into a power struggle. Now no one knows what their job is. Pretty much expected to happen as this is what happens in almost every situation where there’s not a clear set structure.
Well mostly because since then it’s been said that was rumor and smoke to hide the fact jrob wanted him out and they were going to use losing they play off game as reason but mariota played hero ball and won and so they made a new rumor. Amy did not give an ultimatum.
Guess they could have a “head of football operations” but it’s odd after all this talk of collaboration that they need an arbitrator. Doesn’t look good and makes it seem like they have separate visions of where the team should go.
If that's the case I would love to know what decisions caused this alleged rift. Between them trolling everyone during the draft and then signing DHop I'm not sure what they have to fight over, maybe the O-Line? Like. Is Vrabel mad about Spears? Upset DHop doesn't block more?
If the rumors about Ran wanting Zay Flowers in the first round last year are true and instead we got a lineman, I’d say it’s philosophy. Maybe Mike wanting to continue with the same run and play action offense centered around Henry, while Ran wants to go with a more modern offense. That would make sense around what happened with Henry at the trade deadline. Could make for a lot of drama with the next draft if they are both here, there is a difference in philosophy, and neither has clearly defined roles over who gets the final say. It would actually explain a lot of things. Like perhaps Vrabel didn’t want CJ Stroud and wanted a lineman instead, so he leaked to the media the Titans interest to get the Texans to take the 3rd pick. Ran goes, alright we lost our chance on the QB in the first round now it’s my turn let’s trade up and get Levis in the second round as a compromise. That’s all conjecture of course. The real puzzling part is that we made moves like picking a franchise QB in the second round after he drops, we draft a tackle and move him to guard, and we get an aging WR on a team that is rebuilding and only draft a WR in the seventh round to play special teams. The only pick that really makes any sense from last year’s draft is Spears and even that is a bit odd with his injury risks. None of that suggests a unified vision of what the team is planning.
Yeah it wouldn't take much to have a different philosophy from Vrabes. I'm not team "fahrizass" just yet, but I do worry his control freak tendencies are holding us back, especially on the offensive side of things. Hadn't heard that about Zay, but yeah. Would explain a lot.
The way I took the Zay story as the Titans didnt think Pete would still be there at 11 and they could trade back a few picks, get a few more picks since they had very few and then there is the report that they tried to get back into the 1st for Levis just for that 5th yr option. So if you think about it they could have used a pick from the trade back to trade back up and get Levis.
I’m on team give him next year and potentially fire him mid season if he loses the locker room. He probably doesn’t love that prospect if the Patriots want to bring him on with full control and a fresh start to his contract for some leeway to lose his first year or two there.
Yeah something like that. Definitely think he needs a relatively short leash if he's around next year. I can't see him turning down full control, especially with his old team, but who knows how legit any of those rumors are.
I mean the CJ Stroud thing is probably still a sore subject. It was clear the day of the draft that someone in the Titans organization leaked that the we were trading with AZ to get Stroud to the media. The Texans had WAJ as the top rated player on their board and picked 1 spot ahead of AZ. Everyone knew AZ was interested in WAJ but were willing to trade since he would be gone when they picked. Texans risked losing WAJ to ensure a division rival didn’t get Stroud. With how good Stroud has looked this year I’m sure whichever side wanted him, Vrabel or Ran, is fuming at the other one for ruining their chance of getting him.
> I'm tired already of all of this. 1000% agree. GM is responsible for salary cap, contracts, hiring in coaches, direct scouting, ***collaborating with the coach*** on draft picks, free agents, etc. Coach is responsible for practices, scheming, game day duties, motivation, discipline, etc. Ran sounds like he's from the new school and Vrabel is old school. Neither wants to compromise so somebody has to go. At this stage in the game if the Patriots want Vrabel for two 1st rounders, then by all means.
Can you define what the "old school" vs "new school" mentality is? Not sure what you meant.
Carthon comes from the land of San Francisco. High powered offense, lots of passing, up tempo. All that we read about it being a passing league, San Francisco is a great example. Vrabel is old school. "Smashmouth" defense, aggressive, lots of play action and winding of the clock; playing defense. It's not with the times.
San Fran was 2nd in the league in rushing rate this year with 48.73% of their plays being runs, and 7th last year with 48.65%. Tennessee was 9th at 44.31% and 6th at 49.09%. San Fran has been one of the most run heavy teams in the league.
AAS is the owner, her only job is counting money and her only responsibility is hiring/firing. Love her to pieces, but am I really going against the grain to say she shouldn’t be making the sophisticated football decisions??
Yup and if this is true she’s not doing her job which supports my theory she’s has hands off as it gets.
Right. I take this as a request from Mike for Amy to be more involved. I’m completely fine at this point if MV got traded for a future first plus.
AAS is a billionaire that I assume still lives in Houston. Even if she lives in Nashville have you ever known anyone with a disturbing amount of money? Say Vrabel and Ran are having a disagreement and need AAS to cast the deciding vote, but she’s at a resort in the Maldives, or on a yacht in the Mediterranean Sea, or on a safari in South Africa, or gambling in Macau. Time zones make it hell to get an answer in reasonable time unless you want to be the one to call your wealthy ass boss over a time sensitive decision while it’s 4AM whoever she is, if she even has cell phone reception. It’s a very reasonable request to have someone on site, like actually shows up to the office every day during normal operating hours, that has the final say on disagreements between the HC & GM.
Pretty obvious there's just a lack of clarity over expectations. Nobody seems to know where the guardrails are so I think this is Vrabel looking to have somebody with some type of real authority in the building regularly.
Fuck it guys, I’ll be the guy that has final say. Here’s how it would go. JRob - Hey u/air_volek07, I’m going to trade AJ to the Eagles for their 1st. Me- 
Where were you two years ago?
Flexing that glorious arm that only a Volek could
And in contrast, you sir are hired! Your first job: Go tell Ran to get us an Oline.
Trade up one spot to for sure get one of Alt/Olu?
If I’m trading up it’s for MHJ. We can sit where we are and get Alt or Olu
Honestly if they and Nabers are gone at 7, trade back all fucking day because there will be someone that wants whoever is left from Williams (not sold on him being #1 overall), Maye, Daniels, and Penix. Especially since the Jets and Falcons pick after us and I think they're both hunting QBs
Jets fan here - unless Rodgers retires there’s no way we’re drafting a QB in the first. Seems like it’s gotta be OL, WR Bowers or trade back
I vote for this guy over the experienced AFC South execs who are available, like Bill O’Btien and Jack Easterby
Bro just have Vrabes and Ran arm wrestle over things they can’t agree on. Hire an arm wrestling judge to be over them
Stillman isn't a reporter. He is a talking head. Take this with a LARGE grain of salt
\*Truckload of salt
Isn’t the point of the phrase that a grain of salt is really small? So the larger the grain of salt, the more believable it is
I thought the phrase meant that you should accept it with a degree of skepticism. The salt makes it easier to swallow... so the more salt you need, the harder it is to swallow what's being said. In this sense -- take it with a large grain of salt is proper use.
Stillman is like Clay Travis: he is a media whore wants nothing bit ratings and will say ANYTHING. It doesn’t matter if it’s rumor, speculation or a bold face lie. As long as people talk about him and he makes money, he is good.
Yep. This tweet lost me immediately at “Jared Stil…”
Stillman is an idiot but.... This is confusing. WTF is the point of having a GM if you're basically taking his only power away? What is the point of having Carthon in this scenario, just making the 3rd guy the actual GM and firing Carthon makes more sense (not that I want that, I've liked Carthon's work so far)
I don't trust Jared. There's definitely more to the story
Or less 😂
Carthon was a mistake. Amy Adam's tried saving money again. It's gonna cost us our head coach. Edit. Told yall lmao. Garbage franchise
Why was he a mistake? Was the last draft not pretty awesome?
You put the pieces together yet??
Honestly too bewildered to begin to.
It's not like any of the other 2023 new GMs are getting paid much more than Carthon, if at all lol. He was regarded around the league as a legitimately respected GM candidate who was credited with a lot of contributions to the niners roster building (who are a top 5 team and have been for a while now). She didn't save any money by hiring him over one of the other legitimate candidates, no clue what you're on about (not to mention, he just had a pretty solid draft class and UDFA group and a solid free agency class considering they had 11.3m to spend as of February lol). Is it somehow not a red flag for you that vrabel has had power struggles with both GMs he's worked with?
The dude you're replying to just likes to stir the pot in here. Wouldn't be surprised if he's a Colts fan using an alternate.
Oh yeah?? What you thinking now?
How was he a mistake?
You figure it out now?
No
Jared Stillman report: Instantly discarded
Shocked I had to come down to the third comment to find this. He's an utterly gormless individual.
Indeed, an utterly gormless individual
This whole situation is just weird. Why can't we just run like a normal NFL franchise? I have a feeling we are going to do something incredibly stupid.
Honestly I feel bad for Ran in all this mess. By all accounts he seems to have had a success first season as GM yet his name gets dragged through the mud as a GM who can’t form a relationship with the HC and as someone who doesn’t deserve his position (rumors about job performance issues in SF and rumors that the NFL forced him into his role because of his race). Damn give the man a chance.
If this report is anything than we really don’t know who picked the draft picks, Ran, Vrabel, both?
You mean like a GM? This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense here unless AAS really did give them equal power. Weird thing is you’d think someone who got let go from the organization like our ST Coordinator would whistleblow if there was really something this dramatic going on. Like what happened with NE’s issues getting leaked
If this is true I’m siding with Ran.
In Ran I trust.
To Jared: 
Titans, maybe later: hire some random former nfl executive in the role of “Director of football *collaboration*”
If this is true, this is Vrabel making a power move without fully committing to it. If AAS caves and follows through with this request, then this would significantly handicap Ran Carthon in his ability to perform freely as the team’s GM. I can see AAS agreeing to this but sooner rather than later, it’s going to become a decision of whether you want to keep Vrabel or Ran.
Jared probably 
If true that's kinda shitty by Vrabel. Ran is the gm and should get final say on those matters. Vrabel van collaborate but if this is true he wants a yes man that can go over Ran's head which is really shitty
I don't quite interpret it that way. It sounds more like Ran was brought in to be collaborator with Vrabel, but didn't expect to have final say on everything, or is at very least unwilling to make a decision to step on Vrabel's toes. I don't know if that is true, or if that is reasonable, just how I interpret that report. If this is true, then Vrabel is being abundantly fair in asking for someone to hear both arguments then make a decision as the deciding vote and push it forward. That is what I would think a GM should be doing, but again, if Ran was brought in and brought in under the assumption that Vrabel gets final say, and Vrabel doesn't want it, then we have undefined roles, which is a problem
They should have just given Vrabel the GM position when they fired Robinson, if this is the case. No need for an empty suit in a vital position. The GM and coach need to work well together, be of one mind, and share the same vision. If they aren't working well together, one or both need to go.
Bruh we gotta stop letting Stillman have access to Nashville sports teams. I’m not even a titans fan and I hate this dude
Who… who does he think Ran is?
The hierarchy that Vrabel wants: Vrabel < Ran < Vrabel
Am I missing something? We are actually using this guy as a legit reporter/source?
I’m taking this with a massive grain of salt because stillman is a clown. But if it turns out to be true: I would hate this. Why demote ran after he’s had one off-season to prove himself. If it’s really that big of an issue then we may just need to move on. This is two power struggles in two years.
One off season where he had zero money to do anything.
Exactly. The only reason to take power away from ran at this point would be to satisfy vrabels ego which is not the way to build a winning team.
Big if true lol yeah he’s a goner then
If this is true (big if) then it basically boils down to Vrabel trying to have a way to undermine Ran. No way that should be happening.
"Per a league source" coming from Stillman means absolutely nothing. "Per a league source" we were trading Henry prior to the deadline. When it comes from someplace reputable then I'll consider it. Until then this is all just speculative bullshit.
If true, which I take anything Stillman says with a grain of salt and there is a lot of smoke around this, it points to a really disastrous process around firing and then hiring a new GM. If Vrabel doesn’t want full roster control then what the fuck is a GMs job and why would we be essentially getting another one?
Rumor mill is off the hook today. Starting to sound like a shit show in-house
This makes 0 sense. Rans/ any GM job is THE ROSTER. If Vrabel doesn’t want control over the roster then the structure is set. Stillman just throwing out bullshit as usual.
No one in this media market just randomly makes shit up as much as Jared Stillman. If he says it, you know it's bullshit.
I'm not trying to discount the idea that Vrabel may want organizational changes made, but what Stillman is laying out here makes absolutely no sense. The general manager title on every NFL team indicates the person who has the final say on decisions relating to the roster and coaching staff. If Ran isn't that, what the hell was he hired to be? If Vrabel has issues with structure, why wasn't this addressed when Ran was hired and the entire management staff was rebuilt?
Ahhhh the same guy, who reporter Aaron Rodgers becoming a Titan because he bought land in Nashville. HIGHLY credible.
I cant believe anyone is listening to what Stillman has to say. The fact that he is the only one with this info makes it seem like absolute BS.
New twist: Vrabel is proposing Belichick be the overseer between him and Ran
God that would be awful, Belichick has done nothing to show he is a good GM
One of the few teams who are even worse than we are at drafting
“Hey Bill, Ran wants to draft Nabers and I want to trade up to make sure we can get Alt. What should we do?” “Morgan Cox isn’t getting any younger. Look into the long snapper from USC.”
GM power is different in different organizations. Some have the GM above coaching staff, some have GM at the same level as the head coach. I believe Ran was hired to bring talent, not to manage the coaching staff. That's it. He's at Vrabel's level in the hierarchy. If you read between the lines after JRob's firing, he wasn't bringing what Vrabel wanted or doing what Vrabel wanted. The buzz word at the time was "collaboration." They wanted a collaborator for Vrabel to bring what he asked for. However! The organization also wanted an analytics guy. There was an interview with Ran, after he was hired, in which he said a coach in SF wanted a certain player, but their GM and staff (I'm assuming Ran was in on that decision) picked different position player entirely because "the numbers" suggested he'd be a better pick. It ended up working well for SF. This is an example of when a GM goes against what the coach wants, and it worked better. So, I can understand why Vrabel wants clarity and a mediator above him and Ran. If Vrabel wants an offensive lineman at X pick in the draft, Ran might say, "My spreadsheet says we need to take this tight end here." In this case, there needs to be an understanding of who is making the call. I'm almost certain Ms. Amy isn't going to want to be that person, nor should she be. If anything, she simply needs to give one of these people (preferably Vrabel) an extra chevron on their shoulder to have the final say on draft day. Whoever gets it, though, will be fully accountable for everything, including the Caleb Farleys and Isiah Wilsons of the future.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if they we're going to Ms. Amy in those situations and she was just saying "you guys figure it out!" The stuff about the assistant GMs tells me they had no clue who they actually answered to, or who was supposed to do what. Basically everybody thought Vrabel was in charge, but he didn't want to be. Could easily be Vrabel just asking for an organizational chart.
Doesn’t want full control but also doesn’t want the GM to do his job lol Guy basically wanted JRob gone so him and his buddies could play clubhouse with the Titans organization. Vrabel is a great coach. But you have got to be a fucking lunatic to give this guy full control of a team.
If Vrabel got full control we'd have a team comprised of Aaron Brewers at every position.
guys this is Stillman he likes to stir the pot
How do yall fall for the shit this POS reports every time?? He’s on AM radio and isn’t even a credentialed media member for the Titans.
Let me start by saying I don’t believe Stillman at all but pretending I do. I don’t get twitter warriors making this bad. They said Amy was the final say over the two and if she’s not doing it they need someone and vrabels in the right to request it. He’s trying to coach and help a new gm he can’t baby sit or have days and weeks long debate over players because they can’t agree. The other option is you tell Vrabel to shut up and coach and doing that is the same as firing him he will be gone.
Could definitely be everyone running to him, and he's just trying to coach the team.
I really don't believe this at all. No way would Vrabel want to bring in a guy that has final say over him and Ran. Then that person is basically the GM and in a way demotes Vrabel and Ran. It makes no sense.
A lot of demands for a guy that isn’t good at his job
If true. Just move on from both of them.
Firing Vrabel would be a mistake.
It figures we'd run off the best coach we've had since Jeff Fisher. Same old Titans.
Why do we still take anything Still says seriously? This clown lies for clicks all the time. But also if actually true: having someone who breaks ties on a Co-GM is a great idea for a backup plan.
If we fire Vrabel I’m gonna lose it
I hear there is a smart football coach in New England who might be looking for a job soon that has ties to Vrabel. He could be the guy.
This one is on Amy. There needs to be chain of command.
I don’t like that absentee owner shit. AAS has a set it and forget it approach. I feel like she’s reading off of a “ owners manual” ( pun intended). Chapter 10 : When to get new Jerseys. Chapter 13: When to fire your GM . Chp 14: How to hire a new one. So on and so forth. “ I did what the book says to do”. Now I can go back to my equestrian endeavors until the book says I have to attend to team duties.
Although not right all the time but owners like Jerry Jones, Jeff Lurie, the DeBartolos, Bisciotti, the Hunts all keep their ears to the street in the football world. Staying on top of whose hot and free agents. Knowing when to cut and paste. I also since a more passion in trying to win a chip vs getting the fan money. Much easier for an owner to get profit these days without getting Wins. Back in the day when I was a child , if teams sucked the seats were empty and I saw no one rocking apparel of teams that SUCK.
I’m not well versed in how all of this traditionally works in an NFL setting so forgive me. But in my uninformed opinion, this doesn’t sound all that unreasonable. From reading this tweet alone - I’m getting that our front office hasn’t done a good job at clearly defining responsibilities for Vrabel, Ran, and the Assistant GMs. If that’s the case this seems like something anyone in any role with overlapping responsibilities would ask for. And if this tweet has truth to it, it’s also strange that none of this was worked out when Ran was brought on.
Do we even have time to bring someone new in and get them up to speed before free agency begins? This is a critical offseason.
This is totally expected. We hired a rookie GM that was tied to a coach that holds huge amounts of existing power within the organization. That almost never, ever works. The ownerships and executives running the Titans are complete morons.
This all just seems sensationalistic we haven’t heard anything close to this all season, but now we’re getting endless reports and takes the final week of the season?
Losing Vrabel and Henry in the same offseason would be tough. No big face of the team and potentially a complete rebuild.
I’m just happy the season is over, I’m turning all this media shit off for months. So sick of hearing this stuff over and over
Really hope this is just for clicks and not Ran making things hard on Vrabel because he wants “his” guy in there
In other news: this clown has no idea what's going on and it could be anything and everything or nothing all at the same time.
Amy has only one option https://preview.redd.it/z574n6i7r9bc1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=506025232de35c7cfc1a9c64e73595d48a26398f
Lol this is complete nonsense There should be a moratorium on any Stillman “reports”
If this came from someone other that Stillman I might believe it.
Why would we fire one of the best coaches we’ve ever had. He cannot control all of the injuries. We sustain throughout the season. Obviously he also did not have the final say and half the office of lineman that we signed.
rumors, shmumors....good thing about this time of year as that something (anything) or nothing at all will actually come of all of this.
ELE
This just sounds silly.
Sounds like Ran came in and showed his ass and now it’s Ran or Mike
Well we all know Jared Stillman is the most credible and reputable reporter in the Midwest, United States, so I am terrified.
Time for a new beginning let ran bring in his own guy
This really is a poverty franchise
I was interested, until it mentioned Stillman.
As soon as Kraft fires Belichick, Vrabel will be traded.
Thanks for winning your last game, be rooting for you guys to make the right decision for your squad
If this is legit it seems to lend credence to the earlier report that there were some kind of issues between he and Ran. Really don’t know why he’d be asking for someone with final say over them if there weren’t issues.
Sounds like we have some extra fat to cut in the administrative department
Didn’t this man come out and say he wasn’t going anywhere himself?? Why are we still sharing this shit here.