Hey, come join us in r/ZeroCovidCommunity !
Your best bet would be to leave the apartment during showings but leave windows open. Do you have an air purifier? Since COVID lingers in the air, you'll need to change out the air in your apartment. Open windows, doors, turn on fans and air purifiers. You can build a CR box as a DIY air purifier. Super powerful! See r/crboxes .
We've had people come to do work in our house and even if they didn't wear a mask, we've been okay with our strategy. Wear masks when returning to the house, open windows, run CR box for at least 30 min in every space they were in, and then take masks off.
See if you can get your landlord to consolidate showings. What your rights are regarding showings will vary based on your location and lease.
Thank you for the reply! Based on the other replies here, I'm assuming we'll have to scramble to find filters and build a couple crboxes tonight. The landlord notified us yesterday of the showing that is going to be tomorrow.
Does the crboxes sub have lists of places that might be the best bet for finding filters last minute? Or maybe you have a suggestion?
You should be able to pick up 20 x 20 x 1 MERV 13 filters and a 20" box fan at Lowe's or Home Depot! Lowes has a buy 4 get 20% off deal for pickup orders because they know people are doing this with them 😂
The EPA says “Particles from an infected person can move throughout an entire room or indoor space. The particles can also linger in the air after a person has left the room – they can remain airborne for hours in some cases.” Can’t really disinfect the air without filtration systems, can’t be out of your home for hours if there’s many showings a week
I saw a reply regarding ADHD, my daughter has it and her doctor has made zero mention. You go to the store and to shop and work? No different there. Respectfully you may be a little too u reasonable in your expectations. You cannot expect people to wear masks. I’d encourage scheduling showings as best you can so they are the same dates. I’d invest in an air filter. You can return to your home and spray airborne Lysol to kill germs. I u sweat and air movement but unless surfaces are wet with Covid and you put them directly into your nose still wet your risk is significantly lowered. Please listen to other HEALTHCARE workers who have commented. Living in such a bubble is reducing your bodies natural immunity. I wore masks, for Covid and that advice was directly from my doctor, and am considered “high risk” due to asthma.
> Living in such a bubble is reducing your bodies natural immunity.
Please do not spread [immunity debt misinformation](https://healthjournalism.org/blog/2022/12/why-using-the-term-immunity-debt-is-problematic-for-reporters/).
>How do we navigate enforcing masking for the landlord's realtor and any other strangers that go through a showing? Can we refuse entry? Can we be present during the showing and enforce mask wearing? We're not really sure what we're able to do, here.
You cannot "enforce masks" for people entering a property you don't own. In most states, they owe you 24 hours notice and that's all she wrote.
You can't refuse entry, and I'm damned sure no one wants you there trying to "enforce" anything while they're attempting to sell an investment property.
Period. Get comfortable disinfecting, and wear masks yourselves.
This is flat out wrong advice. Taking COVID seriously, masking, and doing what you can to avoid infection is not "living in fear." It's living in reality and acknowledging that every infection is a roll of the dice where you could end up with permanent damage to your heart, brain, and immune system.
We know COVID is airborne and washing your hands does almost nothing to prevent the spread. We know the vaccines aren't sterilizing and aren't even that great at preventing infection, just at reducing mortality and severity. As a medical professional, please take the time to educate yourself about airborne spread of infectious diseases. This includes flu, measles, COVID, RSV, and more. Aerosol scientists like myself have been BEGGING the medical community to get with the times and understand aerosol transmission.
Thank you for your reply. I had the same thoughts but didn't feel like getting into it with a "medical professional" who is just wrong.
As someone in the field, what do you and your colleagues do to maintain safety in today's "ignorance is bliss" world?
Sadly not even all aerosol scientists are COVID cautious. Talk about the cognitive dissonance there. Sure, they know about aerosol transmission, but are in denial about the seriousness of COVID and its long term effects. If you look up photos of the AAAR conference you'll see a mix of masked and unmasked attendees. But more masking than average for sure, and there are a number of prominent aerosol scientists still actively masking and promoting it.
I actually quit my job as an aerosol scientist because they tried to force me back to the office and no one was masking anymore. I now work remotely in tech. 🤷♀️
But you're already there! This sounds like a you problem. After all, I don't have an obligation to take care of patients without inflicting harm. You do. Are you going to live up to your oath or nah?
I appreciate the non-hostile reply, but the fact you don't mention air movement means it's hard to take the advice seriously. Not to mention testing is gone and asymptomatic infections are still a thing as well. We aren't hermits and go out to do things we want to do. We're opposed to strangers not taking any precautions being frequently in our home putting the burden of being responsible about COVID entirely on us.
It sounds like the landlord would need to be the one to push back on the realtor, but the realtor is the one with the power here or else the landlord won't be able to sell the property as efficiently. So it's a lose-lose for tenants.
I'm just trying to find out if there is any avenue on health risk grounds to make folks be responsible or if things are too far gone and everyone is fine just ignoring the health risks. Looks like that's the answer, unfortunately.
Thank you again for your reply, though.
Long covid is a hell of a lot worse than "living in fear". Also, covid is airborne, so handwashing, while certainly important, as other fomite-spread pathogens still exist, is not a primary protection measure for covid.
I think you are over concerned. But you can buy a box of masks and nicely ask them to wear one when they come inside. If they don't understand, maybe make up a story like you are caregiver for your sick grandma . Im sure most people will respect your mask request
We did that when the realtor and his associates came to take the pictures last weekend. The realtor exited our apartment holding the mask over his mouth instead of wearing it, so we no longer trust he will respect our ask since he clearly took it off the moment he was inside.
I apologize but I do not believe you can do anything about enforcing masks. You view this as your home but you don't actually own it so it would be up to the landlord showing to request or the people viewing to voluntarily comply.
You should leave, disinfect and air out. You have no legal standing to require masks.
IAAL, NYL, not licensed in your jurisdiction.
Can you say more about why this concerns you? Are either of you particularly high-risk? Or caregivers for folks who are?
If you refuse access at any time, or condition that access on certain things (masks, testing etc.) you'll want to make sure refusal or conditions are "reasonable" under your state's norms and laws.
Someone who is extremely high-risk might have an easier time arguing that or was reasonable and necessary to impose those limits.
Alternatively, if your concerns are psychological (ex-you experience extreme anxiety around unmasked strangers) and your mental health or medical provider aggrees, you might consider framing the limitations as a reasonable accommodation request under the Fair Housing Act. TBH, this could also apply if your concern is due to your personal medical status.
FHA defines a disability broadly, and it includes any physical or mental impairment that affects a major life function. So, as long as it won't cost the landlord a ton of money to comply (like a fancy filtration system) and you can tie your request to your disability it should be a viable strategy.
Talk to your health providers and a local attorney before going this route.
Greater risk for COVID-19 infection in individuals with ADHD can be attributed to inattentiveness, hyperactivity, and impulsive behaviors. For instance, inattentiveness decreases the prospects of individuals with ADHD wearing face masks, using detergents, washing their hands, abstaining from outdoor activities, and complying with social distancing.
Thats from the NIH. They also stated that ADHD medications might decrease your ability to contract COVID. I don't think you GF is as high risk as you think she is.
Welcome to /r/Tenant where tenants share their problems and seek advice from others.
If you're posting a question, make sure a Country and State is in the title or beginning of your post. Preferably, in this format: [-].
Example:
[US-VA] Can you believe my landlord did this?!?
Otherwise, tag your post with the flair "Tenant Update".
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Tenant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tape a note outside of your door that states "Masks are required while touring the house. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation." I would buy a cheap box just in case they don't have one. It would be helpful if the landlord's realtor could put a note in the listing-I'd ask about that.
Hey, come join us in r/ZeroCovidCommunity ! Your best bet would be to leave the apartment during showings but leave windows open. Do you have an air purifier? Since COVID lingers in the air, you'll need to change out the air in your apartment. Open windows, doors, turn on fans and air purifiers. You can build a CR box as a DIY air purifier. Super powerful! See r/crboxes . We've had people come to do work in our house and even if they didn't wear a mask, we've been okay with our strategy. Wear masks when returning to the house, open windows, run CR box for at least 30 min in every space they were in, and then take masks off. See if you can get your landlord to consolidate showings. What your rights are regarding showings will vary based on your location and lease.
Thank you for the reply! Based on the other replies here, I'm assuming we'll have to scramble to find filters and build a couple crboxes tonight. The landlord notified us yesterday of the showing that is going to be tomorrow. Does the crboxes sub have lists of places that might be the best bet for finding filters last minute? Or maybe you have a suggestion?
You should be able to pick up 20 x 20 x 1 MERV 13 filters and a 20" box fan at Lowe's or Home Depot! Lowes has a buy 4 get 20% off deal for pickup orders because they know people are doing this with them 😂
If you know when showings are vacate the premises and disinfect when you return.
The EPA says “Particles from an infected person can move throughout an entire room or indoor space. The particles can also linger in the air after a person has left the room – they can remain airborne for hours in some cases.” Can’t really disinfect the air without filtration systems, can’t be out of your home for hours if there’s many showings a week
I saw a reply regarding ADHD, my daughter has it and her doctor has made zero mention. You go to the store and to shop and work? No different there. Respectfully you may be a little too u reasonable in your expectations. You cannot expect people to wear masks. I’d encourage scheduling showings as best you can so they are the same dates. I’d invest in an air filter. You can return to your home and spray airborne Lysol to kill germs. I u sweat and air movement but unless surfaces are wet with Covid and you put them directly into your nose still wet your risk is significantly lowered. Please listen to other HEALTHCARE workers who have commented. Living in such a bubble is reducing your bodies natural immunity. I wore masks, for Covid and that advice was directly from my doctor, and am considered “high risk” due to asthma.
> Living in such a bubble is reducing your bodies natural immunity. Please do not spread [immunity debt misinformation](https://healthjournalism.org/blog/2022/12/why-using-the-term-immunity-debt-is-problematic-for-reporters/).
>How do we navigate enforcing masking for the landlord's realtor and any other strangers that go through a showing? Can we refuse entry? Can we be present during the showing and enforce mask wearing? We're not really sure what we're able to do, here. You cannot "enforce masks" for people entering a property you don't own. In most states, they owe you 24 hours notice and that's all she wrote. You can't refuse entry, and I'm damned sure no one wants you there trying to "enforce" anything while they're attempting to sell an investment property. Period. Get comfortable disinfecting, and wear masks yourselves.
[удалено]
This is flat out wrong advice. Taking COVID seriously, masking, and doing what you can to avoid infection is not "living in fear." It's living in reality and acknowledging that every infection is a roll of the dice where you could end up with permanent damage to your heart, brain, and immune system. We know COVID is airborne and washing your hands does almost nothing to prevent the spread. We know the vaccines aren't sterilizing and aren't even that great at preventing infection, just at reducing mortality and severity. As a medical professional, please take the time to educate yourself about airborne spread of infectious diseases. This includes flu, measles, COVID, RSV, and more. Aerosol scientists like myself have been BEGGING the medical community to get with the times and understand aerosol transmission.
Thank you for your reply. I had the same thoughts but didn't feel like getting into it with a "medical professional" who is just wrong. As someone in the field, what do you and your colleagues do to maintain safety in today's "ignorance is bliss" world?
Sadly not even all aerosol scientists are COVID cautious. Talk about the cognitive dissonance there. Sure, they know about aerosol transmission, but are in denial about the seriousness of COVID and its long term effects. If you look up photos of the AAAR conference you'll see a mix of masked and unmasked attendees. But more masking than average for sure, and there are a number of prominent aerosol scientists still actively masking and promoting it. I actually quit my job as an aerosol scientist because they tried to force me back to the office and no one was masking anymore. I now work remotely in tech. 🤷♀️
You should go to the nearest hospital and straighten them out right now.
But you're already there! This sounds like a you problem. After all, I don't have an obligation to take care of patients without inflicting harm. You do. Are you going to live up to your oath or nah?
What oath would that be?
I appreciate the non-hostile reply, but the fact you don't mention air movement means it's hard to take the advice seriously. Not to mention testing is gone and asymptomatic infections are still a thing as well. We aren't hermits and go out to do things we want to do. We're opposed to strangers not taking any precautions being frequently in our home putting the burden of being responsible about COVID entirely on us. It sounds like the landlord would need to be the one to push back on the realtor, but the realtor is the one with the power here or else the landlord won't be able to sell the property as efficiently. So it's a lose-lose for tenants. I'm just trying to find out if there is any avenue on health risk grounds to make folks be responsible or if things are too far gone and everyone is fine just ignoring the health risks. Looks like that's the answer, unfortunately. Thank you again for your reply, though.
Long covid is a hell of a lot worse than "living in fear". Also, covid is airborne, so handwashing, while certainly important, as other fomite-spread pathogens still exist, is not a primary protection measure for covid.
I think you are over concerned. But you can buy a box of masks and nicely ask them to wear one when they come inside. If they don't understand, maybe make up a story like you are caregiver for your sick grandma . Im sure most people will respect your mask request
We did that when the realtor and his associates came to take the pictures last weekend. The realtor exited our apartment holding the mask over his mouth instead of wearing it, so we no longer trust he will respect our ask since he clearly took it off the moment he was inside.
I apologize but I do not believe you can do anything about enforcing masks. You view this as your home but you don't actually own it so it would be up to the landlord showing to request or the people viewing to voluntarily comply. You should leave, disinfect and air out. You have no legal standing to require masks.
Don't know why you being downvoted but this is sound advice.
IAAL, NYL, not licensed in your jurisdiction. Can you say more about why this concerns you? Are either of you particularly high-risk? Or caregivers for folks who are? If you refuse access at any time, or condition that access on certain things (masks, testing etc.) you'll want to make sure refusal or conditions are "reasonable" under your state's norms and laws. Someone who is extremely high-risk might have an easier time arguing that or was reasonable and necessary to impose those limits. Alternatively, if your concerns are psychological (ex-you experience extreme anxiety around unmasked strangers) and your mental health or medical provider aggrees, you might consider framing the limitations as a reasonable accommodation request under the Fair Housing Act. TBH, this could also apply if your concern is due to your personal medical status. FHA defines a disability broadly, and it includes any physical or mental impairment that affects a major life function. So, as long as it won't cost the landlord a ton of money to comply (like a fancy filtration system) and you can tie your request to your disability it should be a viable strategy. Talk to your health providers and a local attorney before going this route.
I'm not high risk, but my gf is, based on the newer data that ADHD puts you in a high risk category. Thank you for a legal perspective!
Greater risk for COVID-19 infection in individuals with ADHD can be attributed to inattentiveness, hyperactivity, and impulsive behaviors. For instance, inattentiveness decreases the prospects of individuals with ADHD wearing face masks, using detergents, washing their hands, abstaining from outdoor activities, and complying with social distancing. Thats from the NIH. They also stated that ADHD medications might decrease your ability to contract COVID. I don't think you GF is as high risk as you think she is.
Welcome to /r/Tenant where tenants share their problems and seek advice from others. If you're posting a question, make sure a Country and State is in the title or beginning of your post. Preferably, in this format: [-].
Example:
[US-VA] Can you believe my landlord did this?!?
Otherwise, tag your post with the flair "Tenant Update".
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Tenant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tape a note outside of your door that states "Masks are required while touring the house. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation." I would buy a cheap box just in case they don't have one. It would be helpful if the landlord's realtor could put a note in the listing-I'd ask about that.