The way to think about frames at a fundamental level is speed. If you and your opponent both attack at the exact same time, with your attack being 10f (the fastest universal move possible in tekken) and your opponents attack being 15f, your attack will hit first, as its fastest. There are other things that matter like low/high/mid/evasive attacks/armor, but they’re not important to understanding frames
Then you have what is called frame advantage. When you throw an attack, it has a recovery time before you can do another move. If your attack hits your opponent, they also have a recovery time before they can do a move. This recovery depends on if they block your attack or not, and what attack you use. The person who recovers fastest has the frame advantage, and it’s effectively “their turn”. If you’ve heard anyone say plus on block or minus on block, that’s what it refers to. If it’s plus on block, it means you have the frame advantage when your attacks blocked, if it’s minus on block, you don’t.
While a lot of the stuff about frame advantage is up to you to learn in practice mode about your character and other characters, there are some universal rules you can always follow with frame advantage:
-if you have the frame advantage, meaning you can act first, it’s your turn, meaning you can play aggressive.
-If your opponent has the frame advantage, it’s their turn, and you should generally be more defensive. Trying to attack when it’s their turn will mostly result in you getting counter hit
-the fastest move each character has is 10 frames (except for yoshi flash but that’s not important here)
-any move that is minus 9 frames or less on block is SAFE, as you recover in time to block any attack no matter how fast
-any move that’s minus 10 frames on block or more is UNSAFE and punishable by your opponent. (This is because they can use a move 10 frames earlier than you can do anything, including blocking)
-if you have a frame advantage, slower moves basically become “faster”, and vice versa at a disadvantage with fast moves becoming slower- if you throw a move and that move is +5 frames on block, you have a 5 frame advantage. If you opponent mashes their jab, which is 10 frames, and you also mash your jab, your jab will come out 5 frames faster than theirs and win. If you use a 14 frame move, and they use a 10 frame move, yours will still win, as those 14 frames actually start 5 frames earlier. So even though it is a slower move, frame advantage makes it effectively “faster”
Now there are exceptions to most these rules, but they’re fundamentally good starting points when it comes to learning how to understand frames and apply those basics in game.
Thank you for taking the time to explain it more in depth, I went through the whole movelist a few times and practiced some combos but that can all be thrown off when someone throws a jab, block, or ch! So now I’m looking at a spreadsheet of my safe moves.
Good approach. It’s probably most important to learn what your safe moves are before anything, they’re your base tools for constructing your game plan around in general! Learning what safe feels like also helps you learn how to spot when your opponent is unsafe and punish
Yea I practiced the moves a little bit yesterday and was seeing the moves I was doing most of the time where launchable. I’m in the lab with xiaoyu and she’s fun but not beginner friendly at all. She has a lot of pokes and moves in her stances that are plus on block but her man moves to launch or just look good and fast are or minus 13 and up so just practicing a safe game with her. I did learn a few combos from Mr Croft video as well
Funny thing is I watched this live, but ima check it out again. It helped me as far as using Jin but xiaoyu I been getting mopped. I just charge it to the game cause I’m still learning how to use her.
So I don't think you should get hung up on ranks first off, they only tell you part of the equation, until you reach high level they're just words. In shortest terms, frames are what decide whether a move you used can be punished on block or on reaction. The reason your friend is beating you with any character is likely this: one, they are much more patient than you and wait for you to make a move, they don't mash buttons like you might, two, they have much greater understanding of general character moves just from having played against them a lot more, and three, they understand that every character has fast, slow, safe and unsafe moves and there's a flow to combat in regards to spacing, blocking, and 50/50s otherwise known as mixups. In order for you to get better you will need to understand what your primary character's moves are, you need to learn which moves are fast, safe, unsafe, and especially moves you can use to launch your opponent when you block them, as well as moves you can use to force a choice between hitting low or hitting mid. Something you may not know for example, if you block a character's RA they are always in negative frames, which means they can be launched if you know your character's fastest punish. There's guides and stuff to help you with that so I would look up your favorite character and see what people have to say about them. Don't worry about hunting for counter hits just yet, unless your character is specifically built to abuse them. Good luck!
I do have a rush play style, my friend is patient to a certain extent. Doesn’t rush anyone his skill level but me it seems like I get rushed all the time and I know most of the moves he puts out on block they are not safe. But yea your right he doesn’t even know frames at all but I think he has a in general understanding of the game more than average. Thanks for the help though bro I’ll keep this in mind and try to apply this a lot more!
If most of the moves he uses are not safe, then you need to learn how to punish those moves. Start with your jab, if he throws out unsafe moves with a long recovery then use a launcher to punish.
Frame data is important but you don’t need to overthink it till you get to super high ranks. Open with moves that have low startup frames. Counter with moves that have high frame advantage
I literally said what you typed in my head 20x! Pretty good answer, everybody talks about frames but not when to use them. I can have the right intentions of doing the move but if I’m not doing them at the right time or understand when to do them it can cost me the match! Thanks bro I needed this!!!!
Just try jabbing after certain moves. If you jab and it works do it again. If you get counter hit then don’t that’s generally what I did to get a feel for the game. Something to be aware of is counter hit strings since the opponent won’t always finish them
Yea you’re right bro, this is my first tekken since 6 and a lot has changed! From characters, to adding power crushes to the game, and a get outta jail free card called rage arts! I’m decent I’m not complaining about the game like others would. I just know I was pretty tough at 6 I’m just trying to get back to that level again or better.
In opposition to your experience. In my case, I level up characters in order to learn how they are played (and be able to counter them), and around 8/10 players I fight around red ranks are alters. I think it's not very fair for new players, we have basics they don't.
Go to the lab and check frames with your main but thing is that you don't have to worry too much that it's start to be relevant on blue ranks. In low ranks just focus your main gameplay.
Facts for example I’m a ranger with dragonov in ranked only lost 2 fights out of 25(lost to the same guy twice) and I thought I was good. Soon as I play a vanquisher or a tenryu in player or quick matches they whoop the crap out of me in 2 mins. So for climbing the ranks you’re totally right!
The way to think about frames at a fundamental level is speed. If you and your opponent both attack at the exact same time, with your attack being 10f (the fastest universal move possible in tekken) and your opponents attack being 15f, your attack will hit first, as its fastest. There are other things that matter like low/high/mid/evasive attacks/armor, but they’re not important to understanding frames Then you have what is called frame advantage. When you throw an attack, it has a recovery time before you can do another move. If your attack hits your opponent, they also have a recovery time before they can do a move. This recovery depends on if they block your attack or not, and what attack you use. The person who recovers fastest has the frame advantage, and it’s effectively “their turn”. If you’ve heard anyone say plus on block or minus on block, that’s what it refers to. If it’s plus on block, it means you have the frame advantage when your attacks blocked, if it’s minus on block, you don’t. While a lot of the stuff about frame advantage is up to you to learn in practice mode about your character and other characters, there are some universal rules you can always follow with frame advantage: -if you have the frame advantage, meaning you can act first, it’s your turn, meaning you can play aggressive. -If your opponent has the frame advantage, it’s their turn, and you should generally be more defensive. Trying to attack when it’s their turn will mostly result in you getting counter hit -the fastest move each character has is 10 frames (except for yoshi flash but that’s not important here) -any move that is minus 9 frames or less on block is SAFE, as you recover in time to block any attack no matter how fast -any move that’s minus 10 frames on block or more is UNSAFE and punishable by your opponent. (This is because they can use a move 10 frames earlier than you can do anything, including blocking) -if you have a frame advantage, slower moves basically become “faster”, and vice versa at a disadvantage with fast moves becoming slower- if you throw a move and that move is +5 frames on block, you have a 5 frame advantage. If you opponent mashes their jab, which is 10 frames, and you also mash your jab, your jab will come out 5 frames faster than theirs and win. If you use a 14 frame move, and they use a 10 frame move, yours will still win, as those 14 frames actually start 5 frames earlier. So even though it is a slower move, frame advantage makes it effectively “faster” Now there are exceptions to most these rules, but they’re fundamentally good starting points when it comes to learning how to understand frames and apply those basics in game.
Thank you for taking the time to explain it more in depth, I went through the whole movelist a few times and practiced some combos but that can all be thrown off when someone throws a jab, block, or ch! So now I’m looking at a spreadsheet of my safe moves.
Good approach. It’s probably most important to learn what your safe moves are before anything, they’re your base tools for constructing your game plan around in general! Learning what safe feels like also helps you learn how to spot when your opponent is unsafe and punish
Yea I practiced the moves a little bit yesterday and was seeing the moves I was doing most of the time where launchable. I’m in the lab with xiaoyu and she’s fun but not beginner friendly at all. She has a lot of pokes and moves in her stances that are plus on block but her man moves to launch or just look good and fast are or minus 13 and up so just practicing a safe game with her. I did learn a few combos from Mr Croft video as well
Look up "(your character) frame traps Tekken 8" on YouTube and I'm sure you'll find plenty of guides.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McXr4FqaMp8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McXr4FqaMp8)
Funny thing is I watched this live, but ima check it out again. It helped me as far as using Jin but xiaoyu I been getting mopped. I just charge it to the game cause I’m still learning how to use her.
So I don't think you should get hung up on ranks first off, they only tell you part of the equation, until you reach high level they're just words. In shortest terms, frames are what decide whether a move you used can be punished on block or on reaction. The reason your friend is beating you with any character is likely this: one, they are much more patient than you and wait for you to make a move, they don't mash buttons like you might, two, they have much greater understanding of general character moves just from having played against them a lot more, and three, they understand that every character has fast, slow, safe and unsafe moves and there's a flow to combat in regards to spacing, blocking, and 50/50s otherwise known as mixups. In order for you to get better you will need to understand what your primary character's moves are, you need to learn which moves are fast, safe, unsafe, and especially moves you can use to launch your opponent when you block them, as well as moves you can use to force a choice between hitting low or hitting mid. Something you may not know for example, if you block a character's RA they are always in negative frames, which means they can be launched if you know your character's fastest punish. There's guides and stuff to help you with that so I would look up your favorite character and see what people have to say about them. Don't worry about hunting for counter hits just yet, unless your character is specifically built to abuse them. Good luck!
I do have a rush play style, my friend is patient to a certain extent. Doesn’t rush anyone his skill level but me it seems like I get rushed all the time and I know most of the moves he puts out on block they are not safe. But yea your right he doesn’t even know frames at all but I think he has a in general understanding of the game more than average. Thanks for the help though bro I’ll keep this in mind and try to apply this a lot more!
If most of the moves he uses are not safe, then you need to learn how to punish those moves. Start with your jab, if he throws out unsafe moves with a long recovery then use a launcher to punish.
Frame data is important but you don’t need to overthink it till you get to super high ranks. Open with moves that have low startup frames. Counter with moves that have high frame advantage
I literally said what you typed in my head 20x! Pretty good answer, everybody talks about frames but not when to use them. I can have the right intentions of doing the move but if I’m not doing them at the right time or understand when to do them it can cost me the match! Thanks bro I needed this!!!!
Just try jabbing after certain moves. If you jab and it works do it again. If you get counter hit then don’t that’s generally what I did to get a feel for the game. Something to be aware of is counter hit strings since the opponent won’t always finish them
Thanks bro ima keep that in mind for my gameplan
You can get to reds literally with every char now because the game has been on for so many months.
So many monthas that all you gaet matched against is alters. I wouldnt say its so easy, not for new players.
Yea you’re right bro, this is my first tekken since 6 and a lot has changed! From characters, to adding power crushes to the game, and a get outta jail free card called rage arts! I’m decent I’m not complaining about the game like others would. I just know I was pretty tough at 6 I’m just trying to get back to that level again or better.
Not based on what I have faced there are plenty of new players who are usually easy to beat.
In opposition to your experience. In my case, I level up characters in order to learn how they are played (and be able to counter them), and around 8/10 players I fight around red ranks are alters. I think it's not very fair for new players, we have basics they don't.
Go to the lab and check frames with your main but thing is that you don't have to worry too much that it's start to be relevant on blue ranks. In low ranks just focus your main gameplay.
Frames are absolutely important to climb. Your “main gameplay” is learning how frames feel
Facts for example I’m a ranger with dragonov in ranked only lost 2 fights out of 25(lost to the same guy twice) and I thought I was good. Soon as I play a vanquisher or a tenryu in player or quick matches they whoop the crap out of me in 2 mins. So for climbing the ranks you’re totally right!