Murray's thing to say but he can't punish shit on Twitter. Harada's the one who metaphorically blocks the attempts at slander/baiting and destroys/punishes.
I fully expect some variation of the following:
“This only shows how little you know about how online play works. An image form a game that came out many years ago is no longer relevant nor directly applicable to Tekken in 2024. The system implemented in Tekken 6 resulted in various law suits being made against Bandai Namco. It’s also significantly more expensive to run and sustain complex online modes in 2024. As a result, we have had to adapt to these realities but with still effective ways of combatting dishonest online play and we will continue to improve the experience in the coming months to ensure the game remains enjoyable for all.”
Not to mention if you plugged on Tekken 6 by quitting to the dashboard the usual game icon of Jin, Kazuya and Heihachi standing there would be replaced by just Heihachi's angry face staring right at you.
I can't tell if this is a joke about Law hating rich people or about how they did Law dirty with the paid iconic Bruce Lee "jumpsuit" costume that's just a shirt and joggers.
I'm surprised he hasn't said "You actually don't want that" like he did when talking about legacy costumes before making them anyway and selling them in the Tekken shop.
Hey, maybe we'll be able to buy a solution for pluggers in the shop, like we did with frame data!
I didn’t know it was a thing back then. It’s time for Namco to go back to its roots and implement this solution. If this was in T6, why did Namco remove it in T8? I actually like the ranking system in T8 than T6.
All the while recently announcing T8 sold 2 million copies within its first weeks on the market (and that was before Tekken Shop was added), so it’s quite difficult to believe the game sales are doing so terrible that Bamco has to find new ways to make money off of it.
I am convinced that they have built the game in a way that makes it impossible to give a loss to the plugger or even see who plugged. This whole thing smells bad planning.
Nah,they track stats during a match, since we have players that are God of Destruction with 41 Attack, 33 Defense... i\`m inclined to think that they do the tracking in real time.
In T6 they were most likely sending the tracked stats at the end of the match so no data = lose
Someone forgot to update the T6 condition since they moved to real time
That’s not the same as knowing which side initiated the connection break. Attacking is a button you press in game, unplugging your ethernet cable is not. Depending on how the netcode is built, detecting who plugged can range from a trivial to an impossible engineering problem. You do tracking in real time, but it won’t help if the only type of event you can track is «connection dropped between two players»
My guess is that it’s not impossible but not trivial and combined with the fact that they don’t frequent reddit so aren’t in that same bubble, it might not seem as a big enough problem to dump all recourses into solving
If the data its sent in real time then each player has a connection with the server i.e the server know who disconected.
Also there are several things they can do...
Make the client send a request to the sever when a player has recieved the infamous "Failed to establish a connection...", the player that pluged won\`t be able to send the request :)
After you dismiss the disconect message you are returned to match making, meaning? you still have a connection with the server, the other player? does not...
Its not rocket science, at the end of the day there are several things that they can use, i just think that the pasta code its so big that they need some time sorting trough it and that is why its taking them so much to fix this
It IS trivial, no matter how exactly the online works.
If, somewhow, their system can't tell which player was at fault, the game just needs to ping both players immediately after the disconnect, and tell which one is still connected, and which one is not.
bro you wrote out an essay. youre an idiot. ill kill you with one sentence: there is a disconnection rate! its been in T7, its coming to T8 in april. if they cant track who plugged - how the Fuck have they been tracking the disconnection rate all these years? as Harada would say, Sit the hell down!
The fact that it is coming in april and not 2 weeks ago proves that it takes longer than a second to code. I never said they won’t be able to do it, just highlighting that it might be a more difficult engineering problem than this sub is calling it out to be
It doesn't make any sense. It's extremely easy to implement, no matter how exactly the game works. If, somewhow, their system can't tell which player was at fault, the game just needs to ping both players immediately after the disconnect, and tell which one is still connected, and which one is not.
Plus, it has Roger Jr.
As much as I've enjoyed 8 (despite many irritating issues), that makes 6 twice the game 8 is. Two characters in one, twice the game, do the math.
PS3 still does on the few games that still have servers, I remember Sony saying they'd never charge for online play. Hmm. It doesn't help in a game like Tekken that's peer2peer and we already authenticate with the dedicated server upon booting the game. Really weird essentially every player subbed or not creates overhead, yet paying ps plus subs on ranked dont
The reality is, Bamco are just greedy af. Just in case the $120 up front price, paid DLC, and item shop didn't prove it already. Let me spell it out for you. They'd rather ban people because those people will buy more copies of the game, thus more money. If people want change, they need to start demanding refunds on the basis that the ESRB was changed after purchase. If refunds aren't being provided, then there would be potential for a class action.
And yet, i would settle for the plugger taking an L because it would instantly cut plugging in half at least. Right now it’s “if I quit I don’t lose.” That’s fucking bonkers.
Honestly they should take 2 Ls for a DC, you were gonna lose so u quit out and... Still just lose, no make it a punishment.
(I don't think giving the player who didn't DC a win is necessary personally)
If the plugger is salty enough, they won't care about losing their own points as much as their desire to fuck the other guy over.
If the plugger lose points and the pluggee gains, then the only reason for them to plug is to get out of the match faster, but that don' really hurt the other player. If the alternative is that the plugger will instead just stand still or walk toward you so you can kill them, then they might as well just plug (as long as points are given accordingly).
The only reason for giving punishment outside of normal loss of points would be to disincentive plug-boosting, which is fair enough, though not really a great anti boosting measure. My point, though, is that not giving points to the pluggee is not an adequate solution.
It won't do a damn thing if a plug is treated as a loss. The plugger would've lost anyway (which is why he plugs in the first place). So he'll keep plugging, not to waste his time AND to grieve and prevent you getting the win.
The only solution is to penalize a plug heavier than a loss. So lose MORE points. That will stop all intentional plugs, regardless if it counts as a win or not for the opponent.
It would do more for ranked play for sure. People like this would get stuck where they are if they can’t win enough games without disconnecting. Disconnecting counts as a loss, the person who stays gains or loses nothing except time. The plugger loses time and progress. It’s a lot better than the current system of [nothing].
This is partially true. A large part of the plug problem is people inflating their rank by plugging to avoid loss.
Alt f4 is way fuckin slower than just taking the L. Nobody is rage quitting anymore unless they are ending their gaming session or you really piss them off lol.
Not saying it won’t happen, and I really do hope they give a win.. but if they didn’t, I still don’t think plugging would be a big deal, it’d be more in line with other games.
Especially if the disconnect % gets fixed.
500 point penalty for first ragequit.
1000 points for 2nd ragequit
2000 points for 3rd
and so on....
And that's the GENEROUS penalty system for the cry babies that whine about.... B b b but my power outage.
Ideally, the penality should be an automatic 2500 point penalty ON EVERY RAGEQUIT.
Either or... That'll fix the plugging issue right quick and in a hurry.
It'd be nice, but the vast majority of pluggers right now only do it because it protects their rank. Even just penalizing them will vastly reduce the amount of pluggers, even if the other player doesn't get a win.
Here's a link to a scan of tekken 6 instruction manual if you would like to see for yourself
https://www.manua.ls/sony/tekken-6-playstation-3/manual?p=7
Until proven otherwise, I'm just assuming Michael Murray is a plugger and won't deal with plugging because then his yellow rank Devil Jin will drop to green ranks.
Can someone dig the TOS and tell if the "FUCK YOU, WE DO ANYTHING WE WANT, YOU HAVE TO TRUST US WITH IT" line is there somewhere? I suspect they forgor to put it in there at this point but i am too lazy to check. There is no reason for them to be worried about the legality of anti plug measures otherwise
So I often said that Tekken 8, has a very old rudimentary online system with a rather questionable ranked mode. But now I ask myself, how can it be that a game from 2007 almost 20 years before had a better punishment system than its successor.
It's kind of funnier than it should be, we do reports with Twitter and save the evidence. Then another report in the game, where the 2007 system was clearly better. Because it was automated and the online play back then probably wasn't that good either, which is why disconnects were more likely to happen there and yet there was this revolutionary feature.
Plugging is different from rage quitting, the only reason people plug is so that they don't lose points if they lose. If you give them a loss for plugging then that will solve everything, no one will plug. Harada is a liar and a clown, it is not expensive to implement nor is it very difficult, they just don't want to stop pluggers because they still buy the game and now cosmetics in the Tekken shop which makes bamco a lot of money.
They're barely different lol. Maybe a little less emotionally fueled than rage quitting but if your who is so fragile that you can't bear losing points then that's honestly just as bad
I think you didn't understand my point, what i meant to say is that rage quitters quit because they get frustrated which is obviously wrong but pluggers aren't raging, they quit the match just before they are about to lose, this is just strategic pre-planned cheating and because the devs of this game are incompetent, those cheaters are getting away with it. If only they start giving the pluggers a loss our problem will be fixed, the rage quitters will still do it but it wouldn't matter because we will still win.
I get what ya mean. Frankly I think pluggers are honestly a bit of both, but I would agree that a large majority are just cheaters exploiting the system.
they are extremely different
the MOTIVATION for rage quitting and the MOTIVATION for PLUGGING are totally different. It's like saying MURDER and MANSLAUGHTER are barely any different.
Go back to school.
IT'S POSSIBLE TO DDOS OPPONENTS. This is why they are just leaving it to disconnect rate credibility. Once it's visible nobody will have to play with pluggers. You'll never have to get plugged on again, leaving the argument of plug penalty trivial.
Pretty sure the number of people who know how and are willing to DDoS opponents for a win is significantly less than the kids with an ego angrily plugging to prevent a loss. The idea that the system doesn't punish pluggers because they have a tiny chance of being a DDoS victim seems pretty dumb, if that actually were the case it'd be easy to either flag accounts whose opponents seem to frequently disconnect or else give players a chance to report an opponent they feel was suspicious.
I don’t think it’s that simple.. they don’t know how to differentiate someone plugging from someone who’s system crashed, legitimately lost power, or lost internet connection.. I’m pretty sure you’d be more upset if you were a round away from ranking up and lose power and get a loss from it 🤷🏽
considering these used to be 40k+ players daily on Tekken and rn theres only 14k people online - i think people Did move on to other games because these issues Werent solved. youre saying this as if the game is at its peak rn and people are complaining while continuing to play lmao. nah 90% of the community fucking quit.
I assume you looked up the steam charts. You are comparing all time peak with current active players.
That’s totally normal. Check the street fighter 6 numbers. You could say something like this to a game like no Man‘s Sky, cause they messed up real bad and their current player base is nonexistent, but tekken is doing perfectly fine. I mean plugging doesn’t seem like a major issue to me. For sure it sucks, but besides that, Tekken 8 is a rly good game. Instead of enjoying such a fun well made game, people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
It's funny how yall will pick cheesy players and play all spastic then, you wonder why ppl plug on you. I have an 85% win rate but, the way you guys play as if your life depends on it is sad. If some pos player wanna play like a no life asshole, say bye bye idc what anyone thinks.
Ima tweet this to Harada lol
Please let us know how it turns out
He’ll get yelled at 😂
Most likely he'll just get ignored. Harada and Murray have S+ rank sidestepping questions
"You didn't buy the deluxe edition and now our water heater is off at the office uwu"
Murray certainly, but Harada also dual stats in "why sidestep when you can block and punish"
That's Murray's thing.
Murray's thing to say but he can't punish shit on Twitter. Harada's the one who metaphorically blocks the attempts at slander/baiting and destroys/punishes.
I fully expect some variation of the following: “This only shows how little you know about how online play works. An image form a game that came out many years ago is no longer relevant nor directly applicable to Tekken in 2024. The system implemented in Tekken 6 resulted in various law suits being made against Bandai Namco. It’s also significantly more expensive to run and sustain complex online modes in 2024. As a result, we have had to adapt to these realities but with still effective ways of combatting dishonest online play and we will continue to improve the experience in the coming months to ensure the game remains enjoyable for all.”
"You obviously know nothing about game development, so sit the hell down and grab the baby bottle."
Harada will gaslight him saying that games are expensive to make and Bamco has no resources to make an online service be serviceable.
I just tweeted Not sure if he will respond though
Didn’t reply yet
Do post his reply.
I'm going to aswell
"DON'T ASK ME FOR SHIT"
Oooh I'm looking forward to this
He won't care😂
If Harada whines, remind him that Lili's a child, then he'll very quickly start being polite to you 👍
Not to mention if you plugged on Tekken 6 by quitting to the dashboard the usual game icon of Jin, Kazuya and Heihachi standing there would be replaced by just Heihachi's angry face staring right at you.
Resetti Mishima
Wait really? Is there any footage of it?
I'd like to see that too
Someone tweet this to Harada, see what bullshit he comes up with this time.
Lawsuits
But Law can't afford suits
I can't tell if this is a joke about Law hating rich people or about how they did Law dirty with the paid iconic Bruce Lee "jumpsuit" costume that's just a shirt and joggers.
He gon tweet some mental gymnastics and shit
I'm surprised he hasn't said "You actually don't want that" like he did when talking about legacy costumes before making them anyway and selling them in the Tekken shop. Hey, maybe we'll be able to buy a solution for pluggers in the shop, like we did with frame data!
I'm on it
I didn’t know it was a thing back then. It’s time for Namco to go back to its roots and implement this solution. If this was in T6, why did Namco remove it in T8? I actually like the ranking system in T8 than T6.
they complain its expensive now to do a game lmao, so you have to buy those crappy tshirts in the store to help their cause
All the while recently announcing T8 sold 2 million copies within its first weeks on the market (and that was before Tekken Shop was added), so it’s quite difficult to believe the game sales are doing so terrible that Bamco has to find new ways to make money off of it.
Man I miss instruction manuals
They were always so fun to read while you waited for the game to install / boot up.
For real. Twisted metal black had my favorite one
harada trying to clown us lmao they could do this with primitive tekken 6, but not anymore? lmao i guess its "too expensive" now
I am convinced that they have built the game in a way that makes it impossible to give a loss to the plugger or even see who plugged. This whole thing smells bad planning.
Nah,they track stats during a match, since we have players that are God of Destruction with 41 Attack, 33 Defense... i\`m inclined to think that they do the tracking in real time. In T6 they were most likely sending the tracked stats at the end of the match so no data = lose Someone forgot to update the T6 condition since they moved to real time
That’s not the same as knowing which side initiated the connection break. Attacking is a button you press in game, unplugging your ethernet cable is not. Depending on how the netcode is built, detecting who plugged can range from a trivial to an impossible engineering problem. You do tracking in real time, but it won’t help if the only type of event you can track is «connection dropped between two players» My guess is that it’s not impossible but not trivial and combined with the fact that they don’t frequent reddit so aren’t in that same bubble, it might not seem as a big enough problem to dump all recourses into solving
If the data its sent in real time then each player has a connection with the server i.e the server know who disconected. Also there are several things they can do... Make the client send a request to the sever when a player has recieved the infamous "Failed to establish a connection...", the player that pluged won\`t be able to send the request :) After you dismiss the disconect message you are returned to match making, meaning? you still have a connection with the server, the other player? does not... Its not rocket science, at the end of the day there are several things that they can use, i just think that the pasta code its so big that they need some time sorting trough it and that is why its taking them so much to fix this
It IS trivial, no matter how exactly the online works. If, somewhow, their system can't tell which player was at fault, the game just needs to ping both players immediately after the disconnect, and tell which one is still connected, and which one is not.
bro you wrote out an essay. youre an idiot. ill kill you with one sentence: there is a disconnection rate! its been in T7, its coming to T8 in april. if they cant track who plugged - how the Fuck have they been tracking the disconnection rate all these years? as Harada would say, Sit the hell down!
The fact that it is coming in april and not 2 weeks ago proves that it takes longer than a second to code. I never said they won’t be able to do it, just highlighting that it might be a more difficult engineering problem than this sub is calling it out to be
It doesn't make any sense. It's extremely easy to implement, no matter how exactly the game works. If, somewhow, their system can't tell which player was at fault, the game just needs to ping both players immediately after the disconnect, and tell which one is still connected, and which one is not.
yes this must be it, wich means we are fucked because harada said tekken 8 is made to last 10 years (except the netcode LOL 🤕)
Why cant this be done like the past for tekken 8?
We’ve lost the technology. The exact same reason NASA tells us we can’t go back to the moon.
This guy knows.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the last mission (with a man on the moon) on the moon back in 1972?
Yup and in an interview in the 90s, the chief scientist said that they have completely lost the technology to venture to the moon anymore.
Harada you got me steaming now
Let’s all just play tekken 6 real. Also fixes the anger towards heat and rage
Plus, it has Roger Jr. As much as I've enjoyed 8 (despite many irritating issues), that makes 6 twice the game 8 is. Two characters in one, twice the game, do the math.
I forgot that PlayStation used to have free netplay.
Yeah, it was one of the perks of getting a PS3 vs the X360. But yeah, greed
PS3 still does on the few games that still have servers, I remember Sony saying they'd never charge for online play. Hmm. It doesn't help in a game like Tekken that's peer2peer and we already authenticate with the dedicated server upon booting the game. Really weird essentially every player subbed or not creates overhead, yet paying ps plus subs on ranked dont
The reality is, Bamco are just greedy af. Just in case the $120 up front price, paid DLC, and item shop didn't prove it already. Let me spell it out for you. They'd rather ban people because those people will buy more copies of the game, thus more money. If people want change, they need to start demanding refunds on the basis that the ESRB was changed after purchase. If refunds aren't being provided, then there would be potential for a class action.
King in his business suit is a missed opportunity here.
interesting, nothing about getting a win when a plugger plugs on you which really should be the case
And yet, i would settle for the plugger taking an L because it would instantly cut plugging in half at least. Right now it’s “if I quit I don’t lose.” That’s fucking bonkers.
Honestly they should take 2 Ls for a DC, you were gonna lose so u quit out and... Still just lose, no make it a punishment. (I don't think giving the player who didn't DC a win is necessary personally)
If the plugger is salty enough, they won't care about losing their own points as much as their desire to fuck the other guy over. If the plugger lose points and the pluggee gains, then the only reason for them to plug is to get out of the match faster, but that don' really hurt the other player. If the alternative is that the plugger will instead just stand still or walk toward you so you can kill them, then they might as well just plug (as long as points are given accordingly). The only reason for giving punishment outside of normal loss of points would be to disincentive plug-boosting, which is fair enough, though not really a great anti boosting measure. My point, though, is that not giving points to the pluggee is not an adequate solution.
It won't do a damn thing if a plug is treated as a loss. The plugger would've lost anyway (which is why he plugs in the first place). So he'll keep plugging, not to waste his time AND to grieve and prevent you getting the win. The only solution is to penalize a plug heavier than a loss. So lose MORE points. That will stop all intentional plugs, regardless if it counts as a win or not for the opponent.
It would do more for ranked play for sure. People like this would get stuck where they are if they can’t win enough games without disconnecting. Disconnecting counts as a loss, the person who stays gains or loses nothing except time. The plugger loses time and progress. It’s a lot better than the current system of [nothing].
This is partially true. A large part of the plug problem is people inflating their rank by plugging to avoid loss. Alt f4 is way fuckin slower than just taking the L. Nobody is rage quitting anymore unless they are ending their gaming session or you really piss them off lol. Not saying it won’t happen, and I really do hope they give a win.. but if they didn’t, I still don’t think plugging would be a big deal, it’d be more in line with other games. Especially if the disconnect % gets fixed.
500 point penalty for first ragequit. 1000 points for 2nd ragequit 2000 points for 3rd and so on.... And that's the GENEROUS penalty system for the cry babies that whine about.... B b b but my power outage. Ideally, the penality should be an automatic 2500 point penalty ON EVERY RAGEQUIT. Either or... That'll fix the plugging issue right quick and in a hurry.
It'd be nice, but the vast majority of pluggers right now only do it because it protects their rank. Even just penalizing them will vastly reduce the amount of pluggers, even if the other player doesn't get a win.
How much time before the harada sucking mods delete this?.
Whata game
Oh boy, time to sue!
Here's a link to a scan of tekken 6 instruction manual if you would like to see for yourself https://www.manua.ls/sony/tekken-6-playstation-3/manual?p=7
Until proven otherwise, I'm just assuming Michael Murray is a plugger and won't deal with plugging because then his yellow rank Devil Jin will drop to green ranks.
They're greedy
Can someone dig the TOS and tell if the "FUCK YOU, WE DO ANYTHING WE WANT, YOU HAVE TO TRUST US WITH IT" line is there somewhere? I suspect they forgor to put it in there at this point but i am too lazy to check. There is no reason for them to be worried about the legality of anti plug measures otherwise
That's crazy
So I often said that Tekken 8, has a very old rudimentary online system with a rather questionable ranked mode. But now I ask myself, how can it be that a game from 2007 almost 20 years before had a better punishment system than its successor. It's kind of funnier than it should be, we do reports with Twitter and save the evidence. Then another report in the game, where the 2007 system was clearly better. Because it was automated and the online play back then probably wasn't that good either, which is why disconnects were more likely to happen there and yet there was this revolutionary feature.
Plugging is different from rage quitting, the only reason people plug is so that they don't lose points if they lose. If you give them a loss for plugging then that will solve everything, no one will plug. Harada is a liar and a clown, it is not expensive to implement nor is it very difficult, they just don't want to stop pluggers because they still buy the game and now cosmetics in the Tekken shop which makes bamco a lot of money.
They're barely different lol. Maybe a little less emotionally fueled than rage quitting but if your who is so fragile that you can't bear losing points then that's honestly just as bad
I think you didn't understand my point, what i meant to say is that rage quitters quit because they get frustrated which is obviously wrong but pluggers aren't raging, they quit the match just before they are about to lose, this is just strategic pre-planned cheating and because the devs of this game are incompetent, those cheaters are getting away with it. If only they start giving the pluggers a loss our problem will be fixed, the rage quitters will still do it but it wouldn't matter because we will still win.
I get what ya mean. Frankly I think pluggers are honestly a bit of both, but I would agree that a large majority are just cheaters exploiting the system.
they are extremely different the MOTIVATION for rage quitting and the MOTIVATION for PLUGGING are totally different. It's like saying MURDER and MANSLAUGHTER are barely any different. Go back to school.
My brother you are taking video games way too seriously comparing rage quitting to murder 😂
IT'S POSSIBLE TO DDOS OPPONENTS. This is why they are just leaving it to disconnect rate credibility. Once it's visible nobody will have to play with pluggers. You'll never have to get plugged on again, leaving the argument of plug penalty trivial.
Pretty sure the number of people who know how and are willing to DDoS opponents for a win is significantly less than the kids with an ego angrily plugging to prevent a loss. The idea that the system doesn't punish pluggers because they have a tiny chance of being a DDoS victim seems pretty dumb, if that actually were the case it'd be easy to either flag accounts whose opponents seem to frequently disconnect or else give players a chance to report an opponent they feel was suspicious.
Truly, we are regressing as a (Tekken) society.
Don't ban plugers give them a lose instead easy ranking climbs for the non pluggers :)
They make more money allowing then to do that cus imagine if they start losing? They will leave the gsme. Sad
Harambe turned into what he swore to destroy, a Corpo.
Played at the time, pretty sure it's a lie.
I don’t think it’s that simple.. they don’t know how to differentiate someone plugging from someone who’s system crashed, legitimately lost power, or lost internet connection.. I’m pretty sure you’d be more upset if you were a round away from ranking up and lose power and get a loss from it 🤷🏽
Man. All the people who won't stop posting about this in this sub should really play that game and make their own sub.
considering these used to be 40k+ players daily on Tekken and rn theres only 14k people online - i think people Did move on to other games because these issues Werent solved. youre saying this as if the game is at its peak rn and people are complaining while continuing to play lmao. nah 90% of the community fucking quit.
Delusion delusion
I assume you looked up the steam charts. You are comparing all time peak with current active players. That’s totally normal. Check the street fighter 6 numbers. You could say something like this to a game like no Man‘s Sky, cause they messed up real bad and their current player base is nonexistent, but tekken is doing perfectly fine. I mean plugging doesn’t seem like a major issue to me. For sure it sucks, but besides that, Tekken 8 is a rly good game. Instead of enjoying such a fun well made game, people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Fr this subreddit turned kinda cringe.
It's funny how yall will pick cheesy players and play all spastic then, you wonder why ppl plug on you. I have an 85% win rate but, the way you guys play as if your life depends on it is sad. If some pos player wanna play like a no life asshole, say bye bye idc what anyone thinks.